What If Boundaries Are Your Real Strategy with Laura Knights

The work keeps changing, the tech keeps changing, and the expectations on leaders keep rising, but nobody tells you what to do with the human side of it. I’m joined by Laura E. Knights, LCSW, an executive coach and leadership strategist, to talk about what it really takes to lead and grow as a Black professional and as a Black entrepreneur when AI is moving fast and workplaces can feel intense, messy, and sometimes downright traumatic.

Laura shares how her early entrepreneurship started with tutoring, invoices, and family examples of relationship-driven sales, then expands into what it looks like to take your identity as an entrepreneur seriously. We also get practical about AI in the workplace: how tools like ChatGPT can create efficiency for a small team, and why “use it now” without AI governance, ethical guidance, and legal guardrails puts leaders and employees at risk.

We also go straight to the leadership tension so many Black women leaders face: moving from technical excellence to strategic leadership. We break down why being the one who always executes can block the next promotion, how “pet to threat” shows up through ageism and workplace dynamics, and why boundaries at work are not optional if you want long-term performance and well-being. The bigger takeaway is simple: headwork and heart work have to grow together if you want real influence.

If this conversation hits home, subscribe, share it with a friend, and leave a review so more people find Black Businesses Matter.

Transcript

Welcome To Black Businesses Matter

SPEAKER_00 0:02

Welcome to Black Businesses Matter, a podcast about why Black businesses matter and the benefits of collaborating and advocating for Black businesses. To drive impact, each episode will cover legacy, hope, black joy, funding sources, cultural shifts, equality, and so much more. We will provide inspiration and action while spreading some joy to a thriving community of black business owners and leading thought leaders.

SPEAKER_02 0:29

My name is Larvetta L. Lofton Arnold, the founder of the L3 Agency and the host of Black Businesses Matter Podcast.

SPEAKER_00 0:38

Known as the brand maiden who transforms organizations with her storytelling prowess, meet Larvetta L. Lofton Arnold, host of Black Businesses Matter, a podcast about why black businesses matter and the benefits of collaborating and advocating for black businesses to drive impact.

SPEAKER_02 0:57

Welcome back to another episode of Black Businesses Matter. You all, we are on fire this season. We're talking about technology and the evolution of entrepreneurship and what does that look like? You know, we've talked about ownership and what does that look like, but we're really talking about how technology is evolving as entrepreneurs and as business owners. And our next guest, I absolutely love her. Um, she is one of those dear friend entrepreneurs that, you know, you know, when you like, I feel lonely. She's the one that you want on your team because she's gonna coach you through it. That's for sure. Um, and I just love how she's navigated and evolved her business. Um, I'm super proud of I'm proud of my sister. She's really involved, and I love it. I love to see that. I really do. Thank you. Um, Laura E. Knights, LCSW, is an executive coach, and she's gonna tell us what that means because I like for people, I know what it means, but I want other people to know what that is. Is an executive coach, speaker, and leadership strategist with more than 20 years of experience developing leaders across global organizations, drawn on her background in business, human resources, adult learning, and clinical social work. She helps leaders strengthen both the headwork and the heart work. Come on, y'all. Required to thrive in today's complex workplaces. And today's workplaces is very traumatic. As founder and CEO of Knights Consulting, LLC, Laura Designs Leadership and Team Development programs that build self-awareness, strengthen communication, and elevate team performance. She is also the creator of Black Women Leading, which provides programs, events, and a podcast supporting the professional growth and well-being of Black women leaders. Welcome to the show, Laura.

SPEAKER_03 3:05

Thank you for having me. So happy to be here.

SPEAKER_02 3:08

I know I'm I'm excited to have you here. Um, it's a full circle moment. It's a full circle moment, right? Um, you still standing, you still thriving, you still evolving, and you still glowing. That's that. Yeah. Uh I love it. Um, y'all can't see it today. We on audio, but that's okay because you're gonna be able to connect with her once you hear about how she is making boss moves and how she is someone you need to be connected. So, Lori, um, tell

Laura Knights On Early Entrepreneurship

SPEAKER_02 3:41

the people. I think I've heard the story, but I need folks to know what was Laura like as a little girl.

SPEAKER_03 3:46

Ooh, as a little girl. Um, Laura was always a businesswoman. Uh, what's really funny is I'm in my athleisure era now. You know, I want to buy gym shoes now that I'm mid-40s. But my husband and I have been together since we were in high school. Oh, and he jokes on me, he jokes with me, says, You didn't even wear sports to wear like this when you were in high school. You wore blazers and heels. And I did. I had little invoices at 13, 14. I had my little business, I love it, neighborhood tutor, all of that. But um, I was I'm the youngest of seven. Oh, wow. And so it's it's really interesting of growing up being everybody's baby, yeah, right, and and really having a privilege. Some of my was grown when I was little.

unknown 4:44

Wow.

SPEAKER_03 4:45

So I could uh always had some resources. Mama said, no, big sister who had her own apartment would give me the look that I wanted, right? So um just a just a beautiful supportive fight family and able to from a young age explore entrepreneurship. Uh, and that's kind of stayed with me my whole journey.

SPEAKER_02 5:08

And it was it your family that shaped you in that, or was it people around your community?

SPEAKER_03 5:13

Yeah, it was both. So my father and my mom had some entrepreneurial stuff. Yeah. So my dad was an accountant. Oh uh, he always had a small business accounting practice. Okay, and so it was in a home. So he was doing the taxes and financial advising for small business owners, our neighborhood cleaners, you know, all of these businesses were my father's clients. And so there was always entrepreneurs in my house getting services. My father ran uh a business. He also was an accounting for a large firm as well. And then he ran his own business. When he retired from the firm, he kept his small business for a while. So that was my first job. Wow, typing up tax returns and uh doing that kind of stuff. Uh so dad was an entrepreneur, okay, and my mom always kind of had a job, but she was an Avon lady for 20 years. Love it. She had the people under her, yeah. So we were packing the bags in the living room uh and learned a lot about people-to-people marketing and sales from her. You know, the people who worked at the grocery store, the restaurant where we like to eat breakfast after church. Those are all her clients.

SPEAKER_04 6:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 6:35

And so seeing her nurture those relationships over years really taught me a lot about marketing and sales. Yeah. That I still use those lessons in my business today.

SPEAKER_02 6:46

Yeah. That's, you know, when I think about just, you know, how you lived in entrepreneurship, right? And you are an entrepreneur. At that point, I wanted to ask you, did they see themselves as your family as entrepreneurs or were they hustling? You know, we talk about the hustle and the grind. Um was it a hustle for them or was it the did they identify as entrepreneurs?

SPEAKER_03 7:15

Yeah, my father definitely identified as an entrepreneur. Okay. With my mom, I really think I don't know if she saw herself as an entrepreneur, but she was. The Avon was a sad hustle for her, but it was more about the community piece because she was a Tupperware lady before Avon. She liked to host the parties, she liked to do those kind of things. So I don't think she probably identified herself as that way. She wanted to make money, but I think the community aspect, the relationship building, the, you know, helping women be cute, I really think that was more of the incentive for her, to be quite honest.

SPEAKER_02 8:01

I love that because I find that, right, you know, in this space, we're talking about more and more, you know, community, right? And how important community is. And I love that there was community, and I'm gonna service my community. Yeah, you know, what you know, and and for that it was well-being or beauty and all the things that Afon and Mary Kay, that's interesting. My mom was Mary, Mary Kay and Avon. So tell me this. So knowing that you were this business entrepreneur tutor, like was entrepreneurial as a little girl, kind of like get me to the point of like, all right, I'm about to go get my first job or I'm about to launch my business. Like, where did that, how did that start for you?

Turning Side Hustles Into A Business

SPEAKER_03 8:50

Yeah, I think I didn't take my own identity as an entrepreneur really seriously to probably my late 20s. I've always had side hustles and businesses, literally since I was 13 years old. Uh, neighborhood tutor. I kept that all through high school. I had clients that I saw through elementary, I mean, invoices and retainers at 14 and 15. I love it. Because my dad told me I couldn't get a job. He wanted me to focus on going to school. So he said, you can work with me, make a little money, because I wanted my own money. And I was slick because I volunteered with tutoring through like a student organization I was a part of, like once a week at the library. It was the Dalton Library. And when some of those parents saw that their children were doing better, they reached out to me and said, Well, can you come by the house on Monday and Tuesday?

unknown 9:56

Wow.

SPEAKER_03 9:56

And so I was kind of slick a little bit because my dad viewed the tutoring as a volunteer thing initially. And so he allowed me to expand it, not realizing I was building an enterprise because I couldn't get a job, remember? Yeah, yeah. And so then when he saw, okay, that's not just a one-time thing, they want you to come every Monday. Yeah, and then he saw I had voices, and they were just gonna pay me monthly a retainer. Oh, wow. He was like, Okay, you're really doing something. I'm gonna let you do it, I'll allow it. Yeah, and so you show daddy, you show daddy, yeah, yeah, but but I think about having a lot of different things. For example, I got married at 22. I DIY'd my whole wedding, of course, because we didn't have any money. Just had graduated from college, and so a lot of family, friends, people from the church started asking me to help them. I had a business as a wedding planner for about three or four years, did the invitations and everything. So it was very reactive, a lot of my early entrepreneurship. I did something that worked for me. Somebody reached out, oh, I can make some money. It was a business, that kind of thing. It wasn't until kind of probably 27, 28, when I was seeing that there was an opportunity for some of the consulting work I was doing to make real money and decide how I wanted to uh navigate that for myself, that I started to really view myself as an entrepreneur. And I started to invest in getting a business coach and taking some classes and the you know, SBA mentor program and all of that. Uh, it wasn't until that time that I started to have an identity around it and treat it as something to really develop, not just like a side hustle. And no shade to a side hustle if that's what you're doing.

SPEAKER_02 11:55

Yeah, no shade to because side hustle can be the full-time hustle. You need one these days, honey. You gotta have a full-time job, full-time entrepreneur, and another side hustle. So I agree, I agree with you. And so from an entrepreneurial state, right? Um in that space of like was that the plan for Lori to be entrepreneur?

SPEAKER_03 12:22

Yeah, I think I always uh knew that I was gonna work for myself. Okay, even though it was important to me to get some foundational experience in other settings. I always, I mean, even from college, I always used it as a case study.

SPEAKER_04 12:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 12:39

Let me see how people are running things. How are they hiring people? It was always that um for me. Um, and I even think back to like when I was in high school, there was this opportunity to attend a summer entrepreneurship program at Indiana University. The couple thousand dollars, you know, those programs where you stay on the campus.

SPEAKER_04 13:02

Yep.

SPEAKER_03 13:02

And my parents were very supportive, but that was a lot of money. Yeah, and I had to give a proposal to my dad. Uh my dad was a proposal, promissory note, king. You want you want to borrow some money? He writing you a promissory note. Yes, that was my mother, that is so funny with terms, girl, girl, all the things, yeah. He likes 14 years old, but it was great life lessons. Yeah, but no, he said, if you tell me why you want to do this, like this is an investment. Uh, and I had to present a pitch essentially to him to do that, and he paid for it. And even then, we was talking about balance sheets and profit loss, and I was 16 years old developing a business plan, and I knew I'm gonna work for myself and I'm gonna have employees.

SPEAKER_02 13:55

Yeah. Well, it's it's and I love that that story because I'm finding that, you know, just right, we're realizing that, and we're gonna talk a little bit um about technology and how technology is influencing, you know, your work and you know, and and how do you feel? Is it you know helping your business? But I also think that um I'm sharing this uh because I thought it was so important. We went to the museum a couple weeks ago in DC, right? And so one of the things, this was my second time going, it said oral communication an African American that is an African American tradition for us to orally, that's a culture for us, right? And so as I was, I mean, you know, storytelling, you know, they you know, they have the whole thing over there, right? Yeah. Um, but it was you know, I mean, it's it's it's in the museum, like it's real, and I think that we have um gotten away from the power of oral, right? Just me and you talking and just listening to you know how your parents communicate it to you and all those things. And so now that we're in technology, right?

AI Efficiency And Workplace Guardrails

SPEAKER_02 15:20

How does that oral communication and connection, how is that showing up for technology for us to still maintain that? So, you know, and so love to hear your perspective on, you know, just where we are with that, even in the workplaces, right? Um you're you're working with, you know, companies all over the world and trying to keep people lean in, right? Without looking at their phone or looking at what's going on, like how is that really impacting our workplace?

SPEAKER_03 15:57

Yeah, it's definitely impacting the workplace. I think in a number of ways. And I think about my own business. We have a small team of 10, right? And I think about in our workplace on the positive side, I think of things like you know, AI, chat, GPT, Claude, all these things have been a force multiplier for us as a small team, right? It's really um helped us to build in efficiency, a system around not only strategic work, but day-to-day work as well. And it's it's helped us to really focus, especially me is it's giving me space back to focus on the more strategic nature, working on the business and not in it all the time. It's giving me some time, right? But I think about a lot of the work I'm doing, let's say, with executives and executive coaching, uh, our black woman leaders that we're working with. There's also this nuance I'm seeing in organizations of one losing sometimes some talent. Uh I just saw a LinkedIn post this morning about Q1 in tech spaces, particularly like you know, 50,000 jobs uh lost to computers that can do it, right? So there's that part. The other part, too, and I work with leaders specifically, of a demand that's on leaders and employees that they need to be using AI and everything for efficiency. Use it, use it now, use it now. But they're also not giving governance around it. So we had Dr. Brandeis Marshall, who's an exer expert rather in AI governance, and she was talking about how a lot of organizations are demanding that leaders and employees need to be using AI and everything for efficiency, efficiency, efficiency, but not giving them proper guidelines around the legal implications, the ethical implications. So people are diving in without those guardrails, and it's creating issues as well. So I think there's this positive aspect of it, but there's also a human aspect of it that we're, I think, overlooking, not giving enough attention to uh when it comes to how this technology is so quickly kind of just growing in every area of business these days.

SPEAKER_02 18:30

And I think what we also are figuring out, I was telling someone, and I know, you know, you also are Jason in the space of a marketing, that I also am figuring out we did a lot of marketing on millennials. A lot. We never, and I I even said this to my colleagues, we didn't, there was no strategies around getting to the Gen X. Yeah. It's no strategy. I mean, I didn't been on camera. Like we were so busy running after millennials at the time, like McDonald's, I will never forget. It was like we running after the young mom and you know, and and all the things that we forgot about the Gen Xers and their capacity to both right be oral and use technology. I think that's where we're now the generation that to me is gonna carry us out. Even though we're getting, you know, there's an impact of us, you know, being laid off. I know you know a lot of friends of course and colleagues that are greatly impacted by that. Um and I'm seeing that it's been very challenging for I feel like for for, and I'm sure probably I want to hope I want to believe this, that your peers um are embracing it. Am I right? Or most of your peers and team are embracing it. But if you talk to Gen Z, they're not embracing AI. They like, uh-uh, because right, it's taking away their jobs, right? Or taking away what might appear as their jobs. But as we talk about shaping, right? The one thing you said earlier, and I love it, was that you were like, I was taking classes, I was doing all the things. And what I think is happening is that in this space of technology, is that people think you go to college, right? And you're done. We all know that it's a constant learning because every day it's a constant. It's like every day you look up. I mean, I was flying last week and I thought I could fly, I didn't have my passport. They were like, You gotta pay for $45, right? It was just, but literally, I was like, I thought it was free. They was like, Yeah, but it changed February. I was like, okay, right? So these things are like changing right before us, and so we have to get in line and get to pivoting and understand like there's another social media platform coming up.

unknown 20:59

It's coming.

SPEAKER_02 21:00

Like TikTok is coming. Like they they about to take over TikTok. I mean, it's just it's gonna continuously. I was telling someone, right? Do you remember? I can't think of it. Was it it wasn't Twitch, but it was gosh, I was telling somebody. No, you remember, um, it's actually on my platform. Gosh, it was a video platform that you could go live on. Gosh, I cannot think of it. Um, but my point in saying that it was, it was, it was a lot of your news stations were using it, right? They were using it, you know, as a way to get more people, much like what they're doing today in Instagram, right? So even when you are over there using technology, you've got to know this side of the business.

SPEAKER_04 21:49

You've got to know.

SPEAKER_02 21:50

And so I think it's just important to know that. What do you think about specifically, you know, based on the impact of your work when it comes to supporting black women, right? And black women leaders. What do you see is the and and I'm sure you know you've done a lot of work, aha moments with black women leaders that people would be surprised about.

Building Strategic Leadership For Advancement

SPEAKER_03 22:18

Yeah, I think some of the trends we see um is particularly for that mid and senior level, which would be our peers, a need for attention to their strategic leadership skills. Break that down. I'm intrigued. So for example, for for a lot of time you grow in organizations by demonstrating your technical expertise, right? Let's say you're a marketing professional. Okay. You're doing the work, whatever that looks like in your organization, and you move up by being a good technician in that work, demonstrating the tactical day-to-day core business functions, right? And so you spend your time mastering those skills, centering your time around doing that type of work. But there's a tension when you desire to move up into more senior level roles. It's not your technical skills that you're using there. Your technical skills you've been there done that you start to move up and you need to be able to cast vision. You need to be able to synthesize between different stakeholders and you need to be able to translate the information between different stakeholders. And it's a whole different set of strategic leadership competencies. So like in our black woman leading work that we do particularly with the mid and senior level leader we're focused on building those muscles because it's a skill it is a skill. The reason why it's so important because many black women are work mules in their job settings. They are the in the weeds tactician you know working with the day-to-day getting all of that together and if the organization is not tapping you to do more strategic level projects to build those skills and if you don't have the foresight to ask for those type of opportunities when you're ready to move up you're ill equipped so I'll give you an example of one of our ambassadors that's an alumni of a program when she came to us she had been in her organization for 15 years. Okay. Running the biggest budget there I mean the organization couldn't run without her I'll just put it like that over multiple teams but very much in the weeds doing the data work of the organization. So the senior left see the senior leadership role she was already a senior leader. So a more senior leader role that would lead her to an executive path came available. Now she's been over here killing it holding the organization up literally from a budget her budget was about 60% of the whole organization's budget. Okay. So she just knew I'm a shoe in for this role how could I not be I've been here doing this work for 15 years making sure this money it was a lot of regulation around it never getting audited never any of this so she went for the role uh she was she got allowed to interview she moved up a level she didn't get it and she was devastated I mean she just knew there was no way I could not get this role so absolutely devastated like after all I've done for you kind of vibe right and so she didn't get the role she did have a good relationship with like her director people and culture you know her HR people ops people so she reached out she asked for feedback and they basically told her we wanted this for you we wanted this for you but every time we asked you about the strategic nature of what this role would require you went into the weeds you didn't even know how to engage with us on the language you went into the day-to-day tactics and we asking you to cast vision you didn't even know how to answer the questions that we were giving you right and so in that moment I will give the organization credit even though for the 15 years they wasn't giving her strategic projects I will give them credit that they acknowledge that we dropped the ball with helping you have opportunities to develop those skills too that's good that's good and they told her we want to invest in you being able to get those skills and so that's how she got to us right but she had that awareness moment you know after getting some coaching after being in community licking her wounds a little bit yeah where she said they were right I wasn't ready I didn't even know how to think like that yeah I just knew the checklist because that's what we do in our lives too for our families that's true we to get it done people it's a problem we to fix it people but the thinking ahead the visioning the looking at trends and innovating off of that that requires intentionality that if you bog down in a day to day you don't have time for that and you know that as a CEO right if we don't make time for that it doesn't happen. It doesn't and so I find that being a key tension point for black women who are trying to step up into that more executive leadership and we kind of focus on building that muscle particularly with that profile.

SPEAKER_02 28:07

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SPEAKER_00 28:13

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SPEAKER_02 28:32

Quick pause if you're enjoying this conversation take a second and subscribe to the Black Businesses matter podcast it helps us keep telling these stories. Now let's continue so you just hit an ouch moment for me when you were talking because when you do shift to that muscle you said it's a muscle right it's a muscle going back to it I was like I don't I don't want to do the check marks like I need it's amazing once you build that skill on that side you I'm I'm who we gonna get to do this because I'm not right but it's it's a skill like I never thought I think it was always I'm always a strategic thinker but in in hindsight though it was hard I felt like I was you know you're battling the task force because that's what we were to to strategic.

Pet To Threat And Strong Boundaries

SPEAKER_02 29:22

So much so it's so funny Lori a young lady good friend of mine um but I was probably in my early 30s and I was just a strategic thinker.

SPEAKER_03 29:35

That's just how I operate right and she said um I said I I I think I don't I said you know she was the account supervisor at the agency and I was like I really believe that I have this you know like strategy side she said honey you're too young to get that and I do want to ask you something it just popped how is ageism showing up in workplaces today oh yeah it's showing up I'm looking up this sister uh her research because I want to just call her out because it's exactly what you just uh explained it's called pet to threat have you heard of this no uh what's the sister oh Dr. Keisha Thomas okay wanted to give her her her props so pet to threat particularly in the workplace is what you were experiencing as that young strategic thinker when you come in they excited for all this energy you bring in our early career professionals experience this a lot of time right um they are excited you got ideas you got that energy you're not worn out yet yeah right so they you the pet you the beloved they want you to come on the project come on to this committee meeting Timmy girl they love you you getting a coffee and you can do the work afterwards that's true all of this right that's all me oh my gosh but when your brilliance starts to extend beyond their expectations for your brilliance oh you're not just um taking notes and getting a coffee you coming with ideas you went and did some research and you looking at the industry trends and then projecting where we should be and you ain't even been here but for three years right yeah you become a threat to either my ego my position my own inadequacy my lack of willingness to go look and see the industry trends yeah right um and then there is uh you know the dreaded term microaggressions but then there there is this type of treatment that you start to receive that creates a hostile workplace for you uh and there's a lot of black women who have experience such that this sister's research developed a term for it called the pet to threat kind of uh wow phenomenon but the other things that we see because the question you're asking is what are we experiencing with black what are black women leaders kind of experiencing right we see that pet to threat we also see a lot of work we're doing around boundaries I hear that and I think the trend and I and I yeah you know you see it and you're like is it showing up in work places um and so I would love to hear the reason why is what you're saying and describing Lori were moments when I worked at an agency the only agency I ever worked at um where I worked to your point till nine o'clock so I didn't have any boundaries I didn't have children I wasn't married so it was girl you can stay here and then they would drop we'll feed you right so every time you stay late you ate so you know me a young professional I'm like well I'm gonna stay because girl they're gonna pay for my dinner I mean you live in there basically you live in there but then and then I'm calculating my coins because I was always like well if they're paying for that dinner then I can save some money and then I don't have to do this.

SPEAKER_02 33:18

Oh you want me to fly because they're gonna give me per demo then I don't have to eat you know I'm doing all the numbers right and so it's attractive and understanding like though I didn't have any boundaries. I didn't and I almost felt like I couldn't because I didn't have a child or husband to use because you know other team members would have their husband or they I gotta go because I got to go pick up my right and I used to say I don't have nobody to pick up so I guess they're gonna keep calling me and so I do think that me not having boundaries I think that I was bullied. It may not be you know not overt but I think it was a form of bully.

SPEAKER_03 33:57

Absolutely you know I think it was a so tell me about this boundaries and the work is it similar to that it's very much similar to that uh it's critical from the well-being aspect too yeah and generally if you're struggling with boundaries at work you're probably struggling it with it in another place in your life too right uh because it's a it's a it becomes a default way of being yeah and so I think some of it I mean if we think about workplace if we just talk about workplace there are boundaries around time like you saying like I'm here to nine o'clock yep there are boundaries around scope so this is the scope of my work and you steady trying to add stuff to me and I don't have any more capacity and there's uh emotional boundaries which is like how you talk to me how you value me how you engage with me respectfully or disrespectfully right in that kind of way and so we see sometimes because people have been groomed particularly if you think about some of the cultural scripts that the black women may engage with because we're groomed to sometimes be a nurturer so you being the work mama making sure everybody at work okay um to the detriment or in ways that they might need to be getting needs met outside of work right um or your time like you said we see that a lot with our early career professionals they working at night and on the weekends um instead of you know advocating to get that work right set for the actual um or right fit for the time that they actually have um and then we see a lot about scope creep and we talk about scope creep as entrepreneurs but scope creep happens in the workplace too right yeah you working on three or four major strategic projects and they know you get it done someone else is not pulling their weight and they ask you can you just see it through when you see it through your own work. So what is the accountability with the person that dropped the ball on this didn't do it. They still coming to work every day but yet you're asking me to see that project home. And so a lot of the work we're doing is for people to gain awareness about when their boundaries are being violated understand what is the message and communication piece around um how to advocate for yourself around that. And then as a hard work component around um the emotional aspects around our worth for the boundaries. Right a quick example one I was on a coaching call the other day and um my executive coaching client said I have a challenge sometimes with a I'm not enough inner script. That wasn't just at work that was in her life right so if I have an inner script a heart work thing that I might need some healing some therapeutic support around around I'm not enough and you asking me to overdo it at work then I might be like well maybe this can prove it that I am enough. Yeah even if that's not what you're telling yourself consciously subconsciously that's how you may be acting so we have to deal with the boundaries on all those levels.

SPEAKER_02 37:27

I I love that um I love that you give that so LCSW please tell people what does that stand for licensed clinical social worker um a lot of times I'm even as my team I'm always like we throw acronyms but people will just let them roll over and they don't really know what they are yeah you know somebody said one time she was like yeah she's a LCS you know so that makes her great I was like what do you know what it is? She's like no I mean but you know I think people ESQ right we just throw these not knowing what they you know not knowing so I want people to know that so this intersection of social work to the work that you're doing right from HR I think it's brilliant. That's me because I think that we've we have created like this idea of like therapy and all these things like that's over there and then your work is we've departmentalized it. That's what we've done. Yeah so I love when you said heart work like we say as an agency we're heart led like I don't take on projects that I don't feel my heart is in it. Um and that's hard right because sometimes the money's there but I was like if the heart ain't there it ain't gonna grow it it's just not gonna grow and I have to accept that and it's it's an acceptance that I've had to accept over time right and so realizing the hard work. So as entrepreneurs and these business leaders because you work with both how important and I say important and vital is for these executive leaders who super corporate and then our entrepreneurs and I won't call them super corporate but I think that they have corporate tendencies how important is for them to do that hard work.

SPEAKER_03 39:28

Yeah it's critical it's the foundation right it's um you can't master anything until you gain some clarity around mastering yourself right so I think about if you're a leader of others and you lack self-awareness you have low emotional intelligence I don't care how dynamic you are with setting the vision and hitting the metrics and the KPIs if you can't engage with people read the room pick up nuance you are not going to be successful because usually unless your product is just whack or something most business problems are people problems. Yeah they are they really are they really are and so you know being able to navigate yourself understanding when your own stuff is coming up yeah that may be getting in the way from your engagement to help you get that contract if you're an entrepreneur or or to maximize your team i i was with a friend who was telling me about a friend she was trying to advise who's an entrepreneur has a team but has very low emotional intelligence and I think even more post-COVID people just ain't coming to work to get uh abused that part you know they're not you're gonna have to go to therapy and deal with your issues because the man's employees was quitting because they're like I gotta deal with enough outside of work I'm not about to come here and deal with your stuff and deal with your stuff yeah and be couldn't see himself in that that he was being very abusive in his language he was making his emergencies everybody's priorities instead of taking accountability that as a leader you had poor planning skills.

Feedback Culture And Why Black Businesses

SPEAKER_02 41:18

Yeah so now people have to rush all the time yeah at the core that's a self-awareness issue it is it is you know it's it's it definitely is so funny as listening to you real talk in real time I just saw a message an email so we just went after this RFP we didn't get it so as I was listening to you I was like literally like wow right think it's great but there's points in me that if you do this long enough it ain't what it wasn't for you I mean it's and you it's it's okay it makes sense you have a baked in relationship they went with somebody else and it's okay right but what I've also figured out Lori and I mean this and I love it I bet on us all day every day yeah and I also bet on my peers there's something strength there right so if there's familiarity I am I'm going to be intentional with sharing right maybe what you could have done different or something like that right but we what I find in this world we are less um we don't we're not all the way honest in how one on what we really really really really really want and then two being honest and aware of giving that real feedback right um I remember true story this is in my NYU days I was looking to get my master's in art this is my theater days and um I was going after a part it was a part for raising a son believe it or not right and so go the auditions were from 10 to two because I think the theater world is the honest world and I I maybe be wrong but I'm gonna tell you why which is where your daughter wants to go and wants to go in that space or you know that film space. From 10 to two so it was like auditions were open from 10 to two so I was like okay well um I got there at like 1145 the director was like we're done we found who we needed I was devastated and I plead my case of but you said it was 10 to 2 he said this is competitive so if it's competitive you needed to be here at eight o'clock that hard That's stung, right? Because in my mind, I'm like, I took the train, I did all the things, I practiced, I did all the things, right? But later, it wasn't my season either, right? So understanding that, and so the friend of mine was the um apprentice. So everything is apprentice, right? They were she would she would play if they got sick. And one of the things that came out of this, right? And I think we don't see this at the time. One, my lesson was if it's open, you need to be there at the start of it, if it's competitive, right? So you have to do that. That was my lesson. My second lesson in this was that doesn't mean that you can't support, right? That was my lesson. So I still went, supported. The director saw me, supported. So true story. The director said to me later, he said, You were the only person that asked why not me. He said, We don't realize we need to ask the questions to get better in life. I know. And so it was a moment for me that asking the questions to know the truth is how you get better, right? Um and he knew nothing. He knew anything. I mean, I couldn't even audition. So to me, you know, he didn't know my worth, but what he saw was she got some grit. And I don't think we play that um enough around our level of grit and understanding, you know, what's for you and in business, like, okay, how do we, you know, okay, that didn't work. So what do we do? How do we get feedback? But what I do find is everybody doesn't get feedback or people give you the feedback because I've learned that it's not a skill that they know how to do.

SPEAKER_03 45:53

Exactly. We literally teach workshops on feedback because it is not a skill.

SPEAKER_02 45:58

It's not. Like it's so, like, can you tell us what we could have done different? And they will give us a robot answer, you know? It's the robot answer with the kids with the college education. I'll be like, they said the same thing to the same person just last week.

SPEAKER_03 46:13

Same thing.

SPEAKER_02 46:14

Same thing. So it's so, and you know, it's not genuine, right? From that standpoint. So as we sit here, Lori. Um, when I built this podcast, the whole purpose of this podcast, I knew that DNI was going to break. I knew that that was all a trend. I mean, I've worked in trends, I know how these things work. We go from multicultural to general market to all these things. We use all the terms and all the acronyms. So I knew that we needed to create a platform where black businesses that were thriving, um, that black businesses are the largest employers of black people. We knew that. And we needed to see the opportunities to collaborate. We needed to see the opportunities to add black businesses to the ecosystem. We needed to know that there were service-based businesses that are thriving, not just struggling, right? We know the struggle story. We know we need help, we know all the things, but we haven't heard the stories of the business owners that were helping other their employees, their teammates buy houses, buy cars, build businesses. We heard that story, right? So we had to build this place to be able to do that. So, given that, why do black businesses matter?

SPEAKER_03 47:30

Black businesses matter for a number of reasons, and you said it right. There's the tr there's the popular thing we are about, support buy from bad businesses, right? And that's important. But black businesses also benefit our economy by being employers. Uh I think about one of my purpose and mission as an entrepreneur that hires people is giving people a space where they can bring their authentic selves, drop the mic, their real skills, and do work that they love. Like, I'm constantly asking my team members, like, you still you still having fun with that? What else do you see that's in our realm that you could play with? Because I also know as a human myself, yeah, when I'm energized, inspired by what I'm doing, it's the best you it's the best work you're gonna ever get out of me, right? And so if I think about on the other side, I work with a lot of leaders who are miserable at work, but they got bills to pay.

unknown 48:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 48:42

I think about black businesses being an opportunity, if we are the employers of the most black people, to really provide space where people can thrive, bring their creative contribution to the world, whatever that is, and make a living too. I mean, if you think about that trifecta, yeah, what are people doing at it?

unknown 49:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 49:05

I agree. I I I agree. I mean, it's just and it's and it's a it's a space that I don't understand why the stories of saying something, somebody has a black business service base. Like I grew up, that's what we did. We supported um the three businesses we went to were all black. I mean, it was that, and and and that was our way. And so we understand products, right? We go, we get it. But these service-based businesses, I felt like that we were not being seen um as value, right? That's the way I saw it. But when you have that that product business, they have to have an accountant, they've got an attorney, right? I would hope they have maybe a marketing person, maybe not, but you know, ideally that's the case. Um, but we never see that. So I always say we can't pull back the curtain to see that we are behind the scenes, but in other cultures, entertainment, we are in front of. We're in front. So this brain right here is not being valued because we work in this part of our brain, yeah. And you know, our our enterers are moving a different muscle, which almost we need them all, right? Yes, we need them all. We need them all, and so I think that's

Joyful Leadership And Ways To Connect

SPEAKER_02 50:20

important. So thank you. So, because you said this, what brings you joy?

SPEAKER_03 50:24

What brings me joy in my business? Yes. Okay, what brings me joy in my business? Well, oh, in general, okay. I'll talk about business and then I'll just talk about in general. Okay. Well, in general, just as a human, what brings me joy is is understanding that I live a very privileged experience that I can uh make a living doing work that I love that I truly believe is aligned with my purpose on earth. I know that's a privilege. Some people got to get their purpose separate from their money, and I can do those things together. Um, so I love that. I get joy from the people I work with. Listen, my team, they are I kiki with them all day long. They are amazing. I love it. We do a mid-year retreat, an end-year retreat. Like, I enjoy spending time with them. I think it's a privilege that they choose me to be to work with, you know, and they brilliant. They could be, I work for them, you know. Uh, and so I really get joy in the people I get to work with and the people I get to serve. Like, I love my clients. I love it. And and like you said, if it's not a heart thing, you don't do it. If I can't stomach spending an hour with you, I'm not gonna take your money. Uh I'm just not because my work requires relationship, what I do. Yeah, I'm teaching you how to communicate, how to be a leader, to deal with your boundaries. I gotta spend time with you. Yeah, so if you get under my skin or irritating in five minutes, this ain't gonna work, boo. It's real. So I get joy from the people I get to serve, seeing grow, seeing them conquer their goals. Yeah, it is deeply rewarding.

SPEAKER_02 52:12

It is. I can tell your passion around it. Um, and I love that. You know, I think we don't understand. You remember that whole thing of black women can't live work together? That's a lie, right? That was such a lie, right? And it's so many of us working together, and I just love it. I think we've definitely set it off in that place that we do really do. Um, when we do come together, it's it's it's magic, but it's also but you know what it is too? It's transform, it's transformative. Yes, it is. It's transformative. This has been awesome, Lori. This has been awesome. Thank you so much. I so appreciate you. Anything happening that you want to share with our audience that you want to share and how they can connect with you.

SPEAKER_03 52:58

I'll just share kind of the the two sides of where we you can work with us at. Um, first of all, if you like to connect with me, I'm most active on LinkedIn. Yes. Uh Lori E Knights CSW, you can find me there. Um, if you're interested in our work that we do with Black Woman Leading, we host an annual conference every year in May. We have programs throughout the year, and we have a podcast called Black Woman Leading. You can get all our information at Blackwomanleading.com. And woman is singular. And then if you are interested in learning about the work we do inside of organizations, helping you create your leadership development programming for your staff, you can check out our corporate site at night's consultinggroup.com.

SPEAKER_02 53:45

Nice. And I will add this too. Is that this coming? It's May of this year, right? May 20.

SPEAKER_03 53:51

You have your May of this year. May 2026, May 11th through the 14th.

SPEAKER_02 53:55

And that is where is it typically held?

SPEAKER_03 53:57

Yeah, we move it around. This year is in Myrtle Beach, nice South Carolina. No, we always have it in a retreaty, beachy space. Nice. So we're on a beachfront resort called Black Woman Leading Live.

SPEAKER_02 54:09

Oh, I love it.

SPEAKER_03 54:11

Our annual conference.

SPEAKER_02 54:12

I love it. I love it. Hey, y'all, there you all have it. Um, the incomparable Lori Knights. Um, I love her. I appreciate you. I see you. I'm proud of you. And I'm just happy that we got you on the show. Because there's certain people that I'm like, it took us this long to get them on. But you know, everybody busy doing all the great things. It's kind of hard to nail some of these folks down. But I love it. Thank you so much, Lori. I appreciate you so much. Um, blessings to you, and I will talk to you soon. Hey, y'all. Thank you so much. Thank you so much for rocking with us. Listen, this evolution of entrepreneurship and technology and where we are and where we're going. Get ready, it ready, because as we're growing as a podcast and we're stepping it up and advancing, we got a lot of information that we're going to be sharing and dropping with you. So keep tuning in and leaning in. See you next week.

SPEAKER_01 55:10

The L3 Agency has exciting updates and upgrades rolling out in 2026. And you're invited to stay in the know. Join their newly refreshed newsletter, The Unfolding Effect, and harness the power of storytelling to elevate your visibility. Visit www.thel3Agency.com to subscribe and stay connected.

SPEAKER_00 55:32

The Black Businesses Matter podcast is produced by the L3 Agency, a culturally sensitive influencer, marketing, and communications firm in Chicago, where relationships are our currency. Passion is your profit maker, and people are our bottom line. Follow us on Instagram at Black Businesses Matter.