Photographing Loss And Planning Legacies With Carter Cundiff

A great interview with Professional Photographer Carter Cundiff of Kate Styles Photography.  We explore how grief-focused photography can help honor loved ones, why saying their names matters, and where end-of-life planning meets compassion. Carter shares her practice, shamanic training, and how images become legacy, while we unpack the role of death doulas and the realities of caregiving.

• grief-informed portraiture that preserves memory and meaning 
• intuitive vs analytical grieving styles and when each helps 
• shamanic training as a path to self-awareness and service 
• death doulas’ role in planning, advocacy and family support 
• triggers, resilience and the quiet rituals of remembrance 
• ethical care for aging clients and honoring final wishes 
• why photos and printed keepsakes outlast the hardest seasons 
• resources to connect with Carter and continue the work

Here is how you can connect with Carter....www.katestylesphotography.com

on Instagram @carter_ksp

brandingbycarter.ksp@gmail.com

Don't forget to..........

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• Play a meaningful role in helping this book reach the people who need it most

If you believe grief deserves tenderness, truth, and a voice — I would be honored to have you on this journey with me.

If you believe grief deserves tenderness, truth, and a voice — I would be honored to have you on this journey with me.

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Transcript

Welcome And Mission

SPEAKER_01 0:27

Welcome to Real Talk with Life After Grief Chris, where we talk about relevant issues as it relates to individuals in grief as they navigate finances and the advisors who help them. We help clients in grief navigate financial matters. We also teach advisors how to emotionally and financially work with clients in grief through an unparalleled process. This week's podcast is sponsored by Life After Grief Financial Planning and Life After Grief Consulting.

Meet Photographer Carter Cundiff

SPEAKER_02 1:00

Hello and welcome back to another episode of Real Talk with Life After Grief Chris. I have a pretty cool guest this week, and I'm inquisitive in regards to some of the things that she does, and I'm going to ask her some questions about that. Her name is Carter Cundiff. I met Carter through an interesting exchange. So, as you know, I'm in the process of writing a book, but the person and the company that is helping me out introduced me to Carter. And Carter and I had some synergies in regards to the grief space. And so I meet a lot of folks in the grief space. I meet less people in the grief space that do the work, the real hard work behind getting themselves on the right track and really enjoying life again. And that's not to criticize or anything. Everybody has their own path. But Carter and I have the same synergy. See, she lost her father, I believe it was in 2020. And from my experience, losing anyone close to you is a life-altering experience, especially being younger. And what's interesting about Carter's space is she is a professional photographer and she captures the essence of people. And I think more recently in the grief space, she does some very interesting photography. I'm interested in learning more about that, although I've learned some already. I'm sure she's gonna tell me some more. And then this interesting concept of a death duel, is that right? That we talked about. And I've loosely heard about it, but now as things get introduced to you, it comes at you like a fire hose. So I met someone else last week that was a death duel. And we'll ask, I'll ask some questions around that. I don't know that it's a new concept, but I think it's a newer concept for me out of ignorance. And so I'm gonna probe you about that. Carter, I'm gonna open it up. I'm gonna let you brag about yourself. I'm sure I'm not doing you justice, but go ahead, please. Introduce yourself.

From Loss To Purpose In Photography

SPEAKER_00 3:06

Hey, everybody. My name is Carter Cundiff. I live in Richmond or just outside outside of Richmond, Virginia. I am a professional photographer, just like Chris said. And we work with just about anybody. I joke at my weekly networking groups that if you're a human being and you need photos, John, we can pretty much help you out because I am part of a three ripher team. So three women, we all are photographers. Our owner is Kate Styles. That's the name of our company, Kate Styles Photography. And it's a beautiful synergy as you keep mentioning that word. I love it. Because when you put creatives together, it can be tough sometimes. And so getting the ability to have a owner that looks at us like partners in the business. And then we can effortlessly and authentically do exactly what we want. That's the best thing for creative. We work with women, especially. We do work with some men with the branding that I do, but we do women's portraiture, boudoir, branding in business, weddings. We even do some families. Really, it's the folks that come to us for the other things usually come and say, hey, we got family photos we want to do. Or grandma is not doing great, and we want to make sure that we have photos with her, but we also offer products and we have a hair and makeup artist and a personal stylist. So we have a full team. We really love working with people and bringing up a legacy for them, no matter what part of their story that is. That can be your passion, your brain, and your business, or it can be the story of your life and your legacy. And like you mentioned, Chris, I lost my father in 2020, my partner, we've been together a little over a decade, and he lost his dad in 2017. So we've had some major losses. And if it wasn't for the photos that we have printed, those memories would be gone. I always emphasize that with people I'm talking to, whether you're a client or not. It's why it's so important to us to capture the essence of people across our whole team, as well as these moments that are meaningful to them. And sometimes they're sad moments, sometimes they're happy, exciting, sometimes it's a transition you're accepting. But regardless of what that is, we believe that you need to have that experience of celebrating it for yourself, whatever it is, and then having the memories to go back on. And maybe it's for when you're no longer here and it's the people that love you most. So yeah, hopefully that explains a little bit about me.

SPEAKER_02 5:27

It does. And I'm trying to figure out how you can do portraits of me. I'm trying to figure that out now. That's interesting. You often think of photography as, and I'm just thinking because we're in the holiday mode, and I'm Catholic as most people know, so I'm going to talk about Christmas. So you think about Christmas portraits, and those are family portraits, and it's uh static in time with your family. My boys are 10 and 12. But really going beyond that and taking again myself as an example of having so much loss and how you just eloquently talked about capturing that before, during, after, and in that maybe in that recovery period, I think that's very interesting because you can look back and you can see things as an individual who's experienced that and wow, I was going through that.

SPEAKER_03 6:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 6:22

And I either put on a really good face or my emotions were just showing through. I think that's very interesting. And for someone to understand that and capture that element, that's pretty cool. That's really cool.

Designing Grief Sessions And Legacy Prints

SPEAKER_00 6:38

Thank you. And especially to speak to the grief piece, I know we're going to talk more about that on how I kind of photograph individuals, but it does go across the board. But the reason I'm able to focus in on that, one is because I've worked through my grief. I'm also the type of person that likes to talk about it. I like to talk about him. I like to keep him alive. And that's just something internally. That's how I grieve, that's how I heal. Not everybody heals the same. And that's what kind of birthed the grief photography side of things for me is because it was a need that I had. It was the idea that I didn't want to not be able to either one, make new memories with him, and two, that I wanted to be able to show others that it's okay to celebrate that season that was hard. Because, like you said, it has so many different elements that come up with it, whether that's sadness, joy, anger, frustration, learning about them in a way you never thought you would, especially a character. Yep. You you have this interesting cast over who they are, not necessarily a hero always, but there's something untouchable. And when you get to that point where, oh, they're no longer here, and then you're learning about things and that make them human. Right. Especially as you become an adult. Even when you are an adult, it's hard to hear those things sometimes. It was another campaign that I was working on, this grief journey campaign photo session that had nothing to do with grief. And I said, There's a sentiment that's missing. And it took one day, and I think I told you the story where I was driving home getting from getting food, and I saw these two gentlemen, don't know them. They weren't even that close. I couldn't see their faces, but something reminded me of my dad. Maybe that was him just winking at me. I don't know. And I just started crying. And I said, that's what I need. I needed to have that element, that sentimental, that grief element. And it all came to me. And it was, oh, I need to do a session that gives you two different products. One that me sitting with you, letting you either talk about the person that you're missing, whether that's a parent, a sibling, a friend, whatever, a child, maybe it's a season that you're transitioning out of that you thought was going to be forever. Maybe you have an illness that doesn't allow you to be the person you really dreamed and hoped to be, because these other people that are more able-bodied or more just a different life can do these things, but now you're grieving it. It can be really multiple things. It doesn't have to just be losing a person in your life, right? But I wanted to give this person, whoever comes for this, a place to talk about what it is, how it felt, and then me photographing them as they're doing such and as they're explaining how they want to highlight this person or this season. And maybe there's certain elements, things that I can capture the essence of you and represent that. Maybe it's a physical thing that you're wearing, like you can visually see that represents that, and then create what I call a nine up. And that's nine photos that kind of show the expression of how that felt for that journey. And that's one big print. And then the idea for me was I also needed a new memory. So I took another photo, and for me, it was representing my dad. And he loved to dance, he loved to laugh. So it was me joyfully dancing. And I had somebody, one of our other sociophotographers, that has her own grief and understands she was capturing these photos for me. And I even had a book that my dad read to me as a kid that he read it so many times, Chris, which I'm sure you might understand this, that he knew it by heart because 10 pages and it's, I think it was hats for sale is what it's called, if you've ever heard of it. And, you know, that when I think of that book, I just go right back to him reading it and making silly voices and all the things. By doing this for myself, I was like, man, there's probably other people that need this too. It's one of those things where I talk about it, I share about it. And then if somebody's interested, I love to hear what it is that might make sense for them. Because it's not something that I'm just sitting out here and I'm gonna be marketing. It's not one of those things. I think it's the right people are gonna find me and need this. Because again, I'm somebody that's able to hold space for folks in this season. I can take myself out of it. And I think that's a huge part. Not everybody's available to do that. They don't, they're not at that point in their life, and maybe they never will be. So it's not that I owe it to anybody, but I feel if I can, why not? Because then it also allows me a space to talk to them about how I can relate and how I understand in a different way.

SPEAKER_03 11:09

Sure.

SPEAKER_00 11:09

Um, so yeah, that's what how that birthed, where that came along, and how I feel like I can be, like you said, that person for other people and able to represent this visually for them. I could be that bridge because I figured out what I needed, and then I can help others do that too.

Intuitive Vs Analytical Grieving

SPEAKER_02 11:26

Yeah, that's really important. I just figured out something. It took me a while to understand really why we connected. I understand on surface level, but you had said something, and you probably understand this now, but I'm constantly in a state of analysis when I'm talking to folks. Not a bad analysis, but I'm just reading their body language and understanding things about them. One of the things that you had said is that you like to talk about your grief and outwardly expression, and you didn't say this, but I read between the lines, but you like to assimilate with other people that have shared a grief experience. And so in my training, I call that being an intuitive griever. And that's why you and I, it finally dawned on me why we gel, and it's because we share that. And I'll just take that a step further. And the grief journey, my natural style is intuitive, and that means I like to assimilate, I like to talk about it, I journal about it. But sometimes you're not able to do that. Um, and so then there's this other grief that I talk about, and it is more like technical, you just have to push forward. And I call that an analytical griever. And when there are just things that are just in front of you, and you just have to get through those things. And that is an uncomfortable style for me. And I imagine that would be uncomfortable for you as well. But sometimes, as life would have it, there are roadblocks and you have to move around those things.

SPEAKER_00 12:57

I agree. And analytical is the perfect word. I'm very much the same as you are in that aspect in a lot of life. I've actually in the last year, as I've worked through, I think I was telling you, I'm working to become a shaman, and that is a huge piece of the challenges are gonna come. You have to feel through them. You have to feel the emotions. And another, I don't know if much about human design, but part of my human design, it's another like an analysis test of your personality in a what my coach would call is my superpower is emotional authority is how I make decisions in the world. I go through the waves of the different emotions. And sometimes you have to speed that process up, right? You can't always take days and days to make a decision. One, I've been able to work on doing that better. I'd be interested to see if you've had to work on that too. But I've also realized that one, really feeling the feelings and not feeling like I have to mute them because the world may have told me to do so. And you get more of an epiphany sometimes out of situations when you truly feel the feelings, work through how that feels for you. Cause sometimes you realize maybe it's more around me. Maybe there's something I have to work out with this other person that I just didn't want to face. You can go across the board.

SPEAKER_02 14:15

Sure.

SPEAKER_00 14:15

Does that kind of resonate with you at all or make sense?

SPEAKER_02 14:18

It does. And you bring up a very specific incident. So my parents' home, I had already sold my parents' home, and I had to go back to that house for something. I rented the house for a period of years, and I had to go back to the house. And the the house is in my neighborhood and on the street. The street, we a lot of the neighbors hang out. So I went to the house. It was the first time that I realized that this house is no longer in our name. And even though I was renting it, I was in and out of the house. I had no emotional attachments because the folks that they were going to be in and out as renters. But once I signed the house over and I went to the doorstep, they asked me to come in and I got very emotional. I couldn't go in. I physically could not go in the house. And my kids were in the car, my wife was in the car, and we were going someplace else. And I took a moment and I knew I was going to have this burst of emotion. And I was having a little bit of emotion when I was when we were driving over to this other friend's house, but Anne Marie, my wife, gave me the space and she took herself and the kids out of the car, and I needed a moment by myself. Yeah. And I just balled. And you described that very eloquently. And that was a story that I just thought about as you described that.

SPEAKER_00 15:44

I can think of a similar story specifically related to property. My grandfather, so this is my mom's dad. Okay. Um, he actually passed away at 94 from his dementia.

SPEAKER_03 15:55

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 15:55

That was the thing that really ended up taking him, but he had many other things that he had fought and really tackled along like cancer and all kinds of things. And it's not until I think about it this way now, was a core place for our that side of our family.

SPEAKER_03 16:11

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 16:12

And at many different points, after he and my grandmother moved in when I was, I think before I was born, multiple of us have lived there. So while my parents were building our house in the same neighborhood as him, we were living there for a couple of years while it was built. When my parents had to sell our house and I was 20, I had to find a place to live because they were leaving the state or leaving the area. I moved back in with him. My aunt and uncle were living there with him too. And it was very much a beautiful happening when it happened because then all of us got closer and leaned on each other. And while there was some crazy stuff happening at the time, it was something that I think we all needed was to be together and to lean on each other and just to get to know each other a little bit better. But when we had to put up his house for sale many years after that, cleaned everything out. My mom's like, hey, I want you to see if there's anything you want to take. I ended up getting to take his dining room table. That I just when I think about that table, I think about the Sundays that we all had pizza and would eat dinner there. I was the grandchild that was with him all the time growing up.

SPEAKER_03 17:18

Sure.

SPEAKER_00 17:18

They joke around that I was his favorite, but I didn't spend so much time with him.

SPEAKER_03 17:22

Right.

Shamanic Training And Emotional Authority

SPEAKER_00 17:23

And so it was walking through that house with nothing in it at one point. And I sat in the back floor of the room that he had, and I just sat there and I was just, I didn't ball, but it was one of those things of just like you said, where I'm not gonna get to be here ever again. I don't think I took it for granted prior to that, but it was so real. And it's like when you lose someone, I'm never gonna see them in front of my physical eyes ever again. I'm not gonna hear their voice and talk to them physically. And that's such a, it can be such a stark kind of realization and kind of thing that your body has to go through in your mind. And that was another beautiful thing that I told you about where we were talking about death doula. I recently had a event for folks that are grievers. And because, like I had mentioned before, there's things that I didn't have for myself and my friends that have dealt with grief at a young age, or really any age, and or caregivers, what have you. So I said, Oh, let me put on an event with four panelists that have stake in the game. One was a funeral home director. We had a death doula, we had a grief therapist, and then we had a grief coach. And I had three folks, so including myself, speak to a story where they've lost somebody, or maybe they were grieving being a caregiver or grieving the loss of their son to suicide. And then each of the panelists after each story would speak on how could I have helped you during that season? It honestly worked out where I ended up doing it the week before my dad's birth date and passing date. And I think I'm gonna do that way every year because that's gonna be something I can do for good and honor him without having to necessarily. But all of that to say, one of the things that a couple of the panelists said was when you stop saying their name, that's like a second death. And that just really hit me in a different way because I'm like, oh man, all I want to do is keep talking about him. But maybe in my mind, I was fearing the others not talking about him and then might forget or you know, insert anything. So all I have to say, I so understand what you felt like you went through that day because, or you did go through, because it can be the physical things, or it can be something that's that hits you one day a year from now, after they've passed, or what have you, that you're actually surprised that it hit you the way that it did.

SPEAKER_02 19:45

Yeah, triggers, I call those. Yeah, definitely triggers. And they come at any point and any time. And I like what you said about just accepting people where they are, holding that space. I think that's very important. And I look at folks that have been through experiences, and some folks have not been through traumatic experiences. And sometimes for me, it's a little bit more difficult encountering someone who has not had a lot of experience. And sometimes those individuals, not all the time, don't hold that space or kind of just let's just get on with things. Yeah. And it doesn't work like that. Not at all until you have that experience. And I've commonly said this you figure out stuff about yourself when you hit rock bottom. Whatever facet that is, and it doesn't have to be in an attic sense, it could be through no fault of your own. But you definitely learn things on the fly when you hit rock bottom. You don't have anybody else that can bail you out, and you have no nothing else to rely on except yourself.

SPEAKER_03 20:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 20:54

And that's a very humbling experience, but it's a huge growth opportunity.

SPEAKER_03 20:58

Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_02 20:59

And I don't I'll take it a step further when you hit rock bottom more than once. So then it gives you a lot of resilience. And you talked about superpowers, which I think is pretty cool. But it's true, it gives you superhuman abilities. And I'm not talking about like Superman like jumping out of a window and flying. I'm talking about being able to hold that space for someone that has gone through a terrible experience and knowing what to say.

SPEAKER_03 21:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 21:32

And not because you've rehearsed it, but because you've been through an experience and you know how to hold that space, knowing how to gently guide them or give them gentle advice to help them out, knowing some of the right things to do for someone. And I'd say something is small, and I get asked this question a lot if someone close to me is passed away, what can I do?

SPEAKER_03 22:00

Right.

SPEAKER_02 22:00

And I say, you know what? I could use some food. And I don't feel like cooking.

SPEAKER_03 22:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 22:05

And those are some of the things that I actually offer because I know that side of the fence.

SPEAKER_03 22:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 22:11

And so I see you extending the same courtesy, and that's awesome that you're able to do that. I want to hear more about you said shaman, is that correct?

SPEAKER_00 22:22

Yes, that's correct.

SPEAKER_02 22:22

I want to hear more about that. I like learning about things that I'm ignorant, and I'm probably going to find a book about it and read it.

SPEAKER_00 22:29

Awesome. Okay. I also grew up Catholic. I think we mentioned it. We personally talked about that. And experienced all the different phases of Catholicism and grew up in that side of things. My dad actually was Baptist and at 18 converted to Catholicism. Um dating someone at the time. And it's interesting how the folks that convert, they actually know much more than I think the average Catholic. But not to say that's always true, but it's cool to see. And he was somebody that would just throw out all the random facts you could think of. Okay. I feel like I was always learning. And now my partner, Kevin, he's the same way. So I'll just go, yeah, just tell me things you want to tell me. I'm happy to hear them. I need to hear them multiple times to understand them. But I grew up in that more traditional sense of religion. And as I got older, things just didn't quite fit for me, or I felt there was maybe something else that was missing, or just maybe some hypocrisy in some aspects. And this is just me personally. I felt like I was told I was being somebody that wasn't that may go to hell or that was not great by the words that were being spoken of, knowing I was doing things I maybe shouldn't have been doing, or going down different paths, but I was still a kind and moral human. Right. I didn't give kindness to others. I wanted to love on other people. And my brain was like, oh, these are the those are the foundational pieces. That's that and the integrity is important, all these things. And so I said, okay, I'm gonna figure myself out. But I also respect everybody and what they feel is right for them and the religion that makes sense. And I love to hear people talk about it passionately if they're open to talking back and forth about it. Or even if they're not, I'm I can listen and then I can go my way. But it wasn't until probably a little over a year ago, a couple years ago, I met with a coach of mine, and she was a life and business coach. She's also a modern-day shaman. And she was telling me more about what she went through, which is called the medicine wheel, and just a 12-month process, and you learn about a Peruvian indigenous culture, which is the specific to the specific medicine wheel journey she's referring to and what she's teaching us. And mind you, I'm still on it. So there's still things that I'm gonna get wrong and things I'm not gonna say correctly, but it's the essence of the thing for me. Understanding your intuitive abilities that we all have. She loves neuroscience as well, so she kind of packs that in there. But it's understanding those natural and intuitive gifts that you have, things that don't always make sense logically to some folks, but it's a feeling that does make sense. And that's even generalizing it. But we're becoming as shamans, we're working on tools and techniques that can help us work and heal on ourselves further. It's going the seven layers deep, right? It's okay, I'm gonna face this level of trauma. Okay, now that I've worked on that. She always gives us this analogy of skimming the pond, like getting the scum off the top of the pond.

SPEAKER_03 25:36

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 25:37

Throwing the chemicals, they rise to the top, you clear the pond. That doesn't mean that there's no scum that's gonna come back. Deeper stuff that you got to work on now. And so that's the same as your trauma. You start with that first layer. And what I've realized is I'm able to understand and see things and situations that I couldn't see before because I was so hurt still on just the main thing.

SPEAKER_03 26:00

Right.

Parenting, The Sandwich Generation, And Resilience

SPEAKER_00 26:01

And there's a couple of deep trauma situations that I've dealt with in time. And it was very interesting how as I've kept working on it, and this has been years of me working on this on myself and getting progress, but still not being able to get to a certain level that I want. And now I'm able to see certain things I just couldn't see before, how it manifested in my self-worth and who I am as a person. So it's been a very healing journey for me working towards this goal. And it's also encouraged without me even saying things, people just come to me naturally. And I think we've talked about this a little bit too, is they just naturally come and they start blurting out their stuff.

SPEAKER_02 26:44

Amazing how that happens.

SPEAKER_00 26:45

But I believe this anyway, like regardless of what you decide to with whether you're spiritual or you have a religion that you follow, when you start to work on yourself, and there's just a different light that comes out of you when it's genuinely just working on you and working towards being a better version of yourself. Doesn't necessarily mean you're happy all the time or you're not ever sad. And I think I had to realize that too. But you glow differently. And that's not to necessarily have to bring it back to my photography, but that's what I see in people that they don't see in themselves. And so that's always if somebody ever say says that they see the essence of the person in their photo or they're glowing or they're like that makes me that's the best compliment a friend or family member of theirs could give them because that's what I see, and that's what I want others to see in them. Because it's not uncommon that they've lost in themselves at some point, especially as some of our women, because we mostly work with women in the studio. That happens often because you've made yourself different titles or maybe society. You've become the mom, or this is your job, all the different categories that we get popped into. And then we put ourselves last if we think about ourselves at all.

SPEAKER_03 28:03

Sure.

SPEAKER_00 28:03

And it's just, it's kind of it's just what a blessing to have something in physical form that you can look back at and go, man, that's me. Okay. All right. So I can stand a little taller today. And sometimes that's the starting step that it takes, right? I don't know. I think all of those things combined together, and I think working on this process to become a shaman is gonna help me be a better person in society, but also relationships that I have with friends, business owners, my partner, my dog, I don't know. All the things that are important to me. And then I'm giving back what I feel like people have given me because it's been in the seasons where and I wasn't always this self-aware. It's been a self-help and trying to better myself is something I've always been on a track of and I've always brought it in at new phases. I've learned what I needed to at the time that I could understand. And then I level up when it's it starts to feel tough again. And I know we talked about that and you have certain habits, but then again, it's I don't know, that just that's what that is for me and how I feel like I can give that to other people because there were moments in life where I was so low. And if it wasn't for that podcast recording, that book, that person that just understood and I didn't know why, that put out their hand and said, Come on, I'll just talk at me. Like, or let's take a walk or whatever that looks like that can really be a lifesaver for people.

SPEAKER_02 29:35

Yeah, those glimmers of light. Yeah. You had brought up something, and I don't want to gloss over it. In regards to when you do the work yourself, you attract other people. And as you were describing it, I was thinking about like a firefly. We don't have fireflies here in Florida, but in north of us, I remember them when I was a kid in Kansas City at night, and how mesmerizing fireflies are. And everyone wants to catch a firefly or everyone wants to be around a firefly. And it's captivating in a sense, and I'm making this linkage, when people realize that you are that firefly and you're doing the personal work and you exude this light, this really bright light, yeah, they want to be a part of that and they want to understand how your light is shining so bright, especially after you've hit some serious lows. Yeah. Um, because I think that resonates with a lot of people. And I've often said this, and this is me personally, individually, that when you hit rock bottom, Chris Dale has a couple of decisions. You can either keel over and die, you can be mediocre and having a sucky life, or you can be someone that has superpowers and go through and do the hard work, and there's no doubt it is difficult work to get yourself on the right side and understanding how to enjoy life again differently.

SPEAKER_03 31:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 31:09

If you had asked me this question when my parents passed away, I would have said, man, I don't know how I could really enjoy life again. But I'm gonna say this selfishly. I think I'm enjoying life better than when my parents were alive, honestly, because I'm raising two wonderful boys with my wife. Yeah, that's pretty cool. And to experience that aspect, if whoever wants to be a parent, but for me, that's great. And that's pretty cool. And the aspect that I look at it too with regard to my parents is that my parents were declining in health. And if they were alive declining in health, I would have been completely in that sandwich generation. And I would have been taking care of my parents and then trying to raise my kids. I don't have to worry about that aspect. All I have to do is focus on raising two wonderful boys, again, along with my wife, Anne Marie. That's a pretty cool experience.

SPEAKER_03 32:10

That's awesome.

SPEAKER_02 32:11

And I see, yeah, and I see a lot of my friends whose parents are still alive struggling with that aspect, still raising kids and then having to worry about what's going on with mom or dad. That is stressful to worry about both.

What Death Doulas Actually Do

SPEAKER_00 32:25

And then you also have, because you think of the sandwich generation and they've got their kids, and some of them have multiple, and say it's the oldest kid, they kind of become stuck in that loop too. Because I'm thinking of other folks that, you know, are in my circles and lots of caregivers around. And so it's affecting everybody in the family. Sure. And also to say, to your effect of what you were saying is your kids don't have to see that side too. They don't have to, not that they shouldn't be acquainted with grief and death. And it doesn't sound like that's the case for them. It sounds like you probably have a healthy conversation with them. There's some folks that are afraid, they're afraid, so they're afraid for their children to be part of it too. Or they just don't give them enough, they don't give them opportunity to say, oh no, I can't handle this. They shield them from it. But in that sense, for you, you said you're not having to experience it and you can live your life with your kids. And they in return get to also do the same thing, but have the memories of your parents that you should.

SPEAKER_03 33:26

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 33:26

And I think with my dad, it's a similar thing where he can't imagine some of the things that I'm doing in my life and experiencing. But I know he's proud. And I know it's like in some way he's getting to live through what I get to do that he couldn't have imagined doing for himself. And you know what a gift that is. Yeah, really. Even though I've beat myself up over it for years, maybe not thinking I was what he might want, but that was also not very fair to say either. So but as an adult, you you realize those things that don't make sense as a kid.

SPEAKER_02 33:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 33:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 34:00

I think your dad would be extremely proud of you. And I think about again that analogy of hitting rock bottom, and just imagine how great you have done individually, Carter, because you've had these experiences and what you're able to do for other people.

SPEAKER_00 34:15

Thank you.

SPEAKER_02 34:16

I didn't do anything other than recognize it. So you did all the work. I give props where they're due. So feedback, thank you. You're welcome. You're noticing that I'm looking down because I'm taking notes. So as I often do, you have inspired me because there are things that and I thought I'd done a lot of work, but you make me feel guilty about not doing enough personal development. So I'm like looking at this idea of a shaman, and I'm saying that kind of jokingly, we all have our own past, but this just opened my eyes to just a different element. When you were talking about it, I was thinking about the idea of peeling back a banana, have this aspect of all this stuff on the surface, and you clear that, and then you get down to the heart of actually the banana, and you can start digesting that and really doing the internal work to really clear yourself.

SPEAKER_03 35:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 35:18

To where you're at a place of healing too.

SPEAKER_03 35:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 35:20

I don't want to forget about this death duela idea.

SPEAKER_00 35:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 35:24

So I want you to talk about that too.

SPEAKER_00 35:26

I will share as much as I generally know. I'm part of many networking groups, and like I'd mentioned, I had an event recently, and there's a couple of incredible death jewels in our area. And they honestly work through folks. So think of like women who could think of a birth duel similar, but more in the planning for death and in the experience of when someone's passing. Their heart is set around helping you, like they could even help you plan ahead of time if you know something's coming, what your wishes are, a local death jewel. And she had a great example recently because she said it's hard to explain because there's so many things they can do for somebody. But recently there was a gentleman, and I think it was he didn't really have any family left, and he didn't have a lot of people preceding him to take care of his things. He said, But what is it that's something that you would want cared for? What do you feel like is your legacy once you're gone? And he was an avid gardener, planter. And he said, I just want my garden to be taken care of or my plants. And so it was, those were the things that he put his heart, his time and sewed, right? That he cared about. And that can be so different from person to person.

SPEAKER_03 36:35

Sure.

SPEAKER_00 36:35

That's also different from what you want versus maybe your spouse or your children want for you. It's important to have those things laid out. And a death jewel is there to help you passing, but also to help your family in a sense. There's really so many things that they can do. And they have people, they have a great network that they can connect to to folks that say you need a lawyer for certain things. They'll they have a great network to do so. Um, she's partnered with funeral homes and senior care facilities, I believe. I'd be happy to connect you with a couple of my favorite folks that are here in Richmond, just so you can hear more about it and learn if you want. They're more than happy to share because it's so common that they walk into a room and people like you said, What is this? What do you do?

SPEAKER_02 37:20

Yeah, you inspired me. So when you brought up the concept, I think I've loosely heard of it, but I didn't really dig into it. So I had an experience last week, actually. So I had a client that passed away. He was a 20-year client, and he passed away. We had a very unique relationship. He was married early in life, he had no children, and this gentleman was 84 when he passed. And so the unique experience that I had was he knew everything about my life, what happened with my parents, and he and my dad were very close in age. And so this gentleman, I essentially helped him get into retirement. He was physically responsible, but I just molded him to be able to retire within a probably two years after we met. And then he had 19 years in retirement.

SPEAKER_03 38:10

Wow.

A Client’s Final Chapter And Trusted Care

SPEAKER_02 38:11

With me, and he only really wanted one thing. He just wanted to look at a sheet of paper and know that he had a magic number and it was there every time that we met. That was all that he cared about. He didn't care about the hours that I spent behind the scenes working for that. And so our relationship was such that I would go see him when I was working for someone else. But then when I created my own company, I could go see him as often as I wanted to. So I'd go see him once a month, maybe a couple times a month, and we'd have a field trip. He'd like to go to the gun range. That was his thing. And so, again, meeting people where they are. And so I would go with him. And then it really turned into after that, we were probably only at the gun range for maybe 15 minutes. And then we would go to his house and spend a couple hours, and he would just talk, and he would tell me all kinds of stuff about his life.

SPEAKER_03 39:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 39:02

And he would always make coffee, some of the highest end coffee I've ever had, and it was completely black. And then he'd give me a snack, like a little bar. And so we'd just sit there for a couple hours and just chit-chat. And so, fast forward last September, I noticed he was declining. And I've known a lot of stuff about him. He got in an accident. I think he he had a medical event. So I had to intervene. And we had done his estate planning in advance of that. His famous words were, Chris, just take care of it. And so he just, Chris, just take care of it. And he just had that trust in me. And I'm getting to the point of you had mentioned this idea to me about a death doula. And so my experience with my parents and having my mother in a nursing home with my client, knowing his final wishes.

SPEAKER_03 39:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 39:54

And I took care of it. And I'm putting my fingers up quotation, because I put myself in a position where if I'm a single guy in my 80s, don't have any kids, was married 40 years ago, would I care about where any of my assets go? Probably not.

SPEAKER_03 40:10

Right.

SPEAKER_02 40:10

And so that was the same thing with him. But I said the important aspect for you in terms of doing an estate plan, knowing that you could care less, if you become incapacitated, I can't give you your own money. That's a problem.

SPEAKER_03 40:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 40:25

So if you have to pay the hospital or if you have to pay someone or you have to do something, I can't give you your own money. So that was when he's like, okay, just take care of it. Found an attorney, long-term attorney that I've had a very good relationship with. She did the paperwork and I supplied her all the information. Again, me just taking care of it. And he showed up to the first meeting so she could verify that he was an actual person. And then the second meeting, he signed all the paperwork. That was October, November. He had this event in January. That was how close it was. And then fast forward, he had been declining October-ish. And he actually went into a rehab facility after his bounce in the hospital, in and out of the hospital. And I always remembered his wishes because we had so much dialogue. He has a close personal friend. It's more a daughter, I guess. And she's very emotionally attached. And I could see it. She lives upstairs and she would check on him on a regular basis. And so she was feeling, I don't know, if guilty, but she was feeling bad having to leave town to do some things that she needed to take care of. And I come in and I say, okay, I know his wishes. He needs to be taken care of. They need to be looked in. And he only had myself, his friend, and then the attorney. Those are the only people that he really had. And I'm like, why don't we just hire a companion to come and visit him in the rehab facility four hours a day, seven days a week?

SPEAKER_03 41:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 41:51

And I mentioned that to his friend, and she's oh my gosh, that's such a stress reliever. And for me, it did a couple of things. It relieved her, the emotional toll it was taken on her. It also provided me a system of checks and balances to where I could evaluate the facility on a regular basis. And again, all he said to me is, can we afford it? I said, Yes, we no, we can't. You can afford it. We can't. This is not a we, this is your money. This is not my money. But I said to him, if you were my father, this is something that I would do for you.

SPEAKER_03 42:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 42:28

And so, really to the heart of the matter, doing what is in the best interest, and this goes beyond business. This is just a human element, doing what is in his best interest so he has the most comfort for his lasting days. And so during that process, when we first hired the companion, there were some missteps by the rehab facility. So I go there with my wife Anne Marie, and I said to him, I said, I'm going to step out of the room. Don't hit on my wife. That's what I said to him. And he's laughing. So I go out of the room and he knows and I said, I got to take care of something. And he knows what I'm in. He had some a couple of concerns himself. So I'm going to go take care of a couple things. And then I come back and he sees the serious look on my face, and he smiles and he starts to laugh. And I'm like, What are you laughing at? He was like, You just you took care of it. And so because he saw that I was serious, and then he was like, Chris, I like making you work. I said, You definitely made me work here. But he had this high degree of trust and compassion that he was being taken care of. And there's that delicate line where I know that they talk about sometimes seniors can be taken advantage of. And but I've known this guy for a long time and he knew what I've gone through, and he had complete trust in me. And then I got a call from his attorney. I was at a conference last week, and then he passed away. I knew he was going to pass away because of my hospice training. The companion was reporting to me that his breathing was slowing and he wasn't eating as much. And then after he passed away, obviously the emotional toll is going to take place. I'm going to go see my therapist tomorrow to take care of myself. But man, I felt really good about his last days and how I had a part of that. And based on my experience and me taking care of myself to have a space to be clear-headed and think about those things and react or be a little bit more proactive.

SPEAKER_00 44:35

It's just like he doesn't know how to do those things for himself.

SPEAKER_02 44:39

Correct. That is correct.

SPEAKER_00 44:40

It's wonderful, Chris, and any type of interaction or situation that you're in. Being analytical probably is helpful with some of this, but you're so integral with anything that you're setting your mind to. Because you're, like you said, it's just the human thing to do. Right. And with what you do specifically and who you're working with, that is such an important element in caring about the people and serving them the way that you do. Because anybody could do what they want with people's money and give them advice that works for them. You're not that kind of guy. But it's just that's I hope you understand how wonderful that is that you are that way and that you're doing that for your, you're doing such a service to your clients. And clearly with this story, that explains it. He said, I've got full trust in you. I know you're going to take care of me and not take advantage.

SPEAKER_02 45:27

Sure. And I'm feeling I'm not, I'm feeling that there's a fine line. And so his attorney, I'm now checking in with the attorney because there is a business element to this too. And this relationship went well beyond the scope of just managing money. Well beyond the scope. There was a couple of guys at the conference. They said, Do you think that's a new business model for you? And I said, Absolutely not. That's not something that I want to focus on. But I said, in my practice, because I'm very selective of my clients, that is a service that I would offer them if they needed it. And I just thought about that. And so with this particular client, it was a full gamut. And it made me understand, and thank you for the compliments. It made me understand the true life cycle that I had the ability to imprint a positive life for someone else. Never thought of it that way until this gentleman went through that whole life cycle.

SPEAKER_00 46:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 46:35

It was a really good feeling. A really good feeling.

SPEAKER_00 46:38

That's the combo of when intention meets impact, having the intention and not needing the result, not needing the impact necessarily, but then that makes it all the greater when you feel it.

SPEAKER_02 46:49

Sure.

SPEAKER_00 46:50

Um for sure. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 46:51

Yeah. So cool. This has been a great conversation.

SPEAKER_00 46:55

Yes. I love it.

SPEAKER_02 46:57

So thank you so much. I want to give you an opportunity, and I'm going to put this in the meeting notes, in regards to how folks can find you.

Impact, Intention, And Ethical Boundaries

SPEAKER_00 47:06

So a few ways that you can either find more information about the team that I was telling you about that I'm part of as a photographer. Our full team is under Kate Styles Photography. So you can find us at our website, katestylesphotography.com. And Styles is spelled S-T-Y-L-E-S. Like Styles, that is her at like actual last name. People ask us that all the time. You can also find me on Instagram at Carter underscore KSP. And that is just me as the associate and all of the different work that I do, whether it's women's portraiture, grief, weddings, boudoir, the whole gamut. You learn a little bit about me, even my partner. Because when I started out with a team, I did more couples photography. And then I transitioned and evolved as we all do with our craft. But those are probably the best ways that you can get in touch with me there. Or if you want to email me, it's branding by carter.ksp at gmail.com. Always interested in having further conversations about whether if something resonated with you, just hearing what if it if there's an impact or if you have questions. I love being communal and connecting with folks. It's my favorite thing and kind of what keeps the world going for me.

SPEAKER_02 48:21

So it's your jam.

SPEAKER_00 48:23

Yes, absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 48:25

So I'm gonna put that information in the notes so folks can reach out to you directly. And I think you're gonna resonate with a ton of people. So I don't think I know that you are. I will do that. And in the process, of we, Carter and I have got introduced through the company, and I'm keeping that under wraps, I'm keeping that in suspense a little bit. But this season is about me writing a book. And so you fit into that because of what you do. And so as I'm learning about writing a book is not only about writing a book. There's a ton of other elements that go in. I'm going to be formally launching, and I'd invite anyone that wants to be part of the launch process to join that. And I will put more information in the notes for this podcast as well. So I'm excited, and that's how Carter and I got introduced. Carter, anything else you got from your end?

SPEAKER_00 49:27

I think we covered everything. I think I'm good.

SPEAKER_02 49:30

Okay. Thank you very much. I appreciate it.

SPEAKER_00 49:32

Thank you again.

SPEAKER_02 49:33

Yes, you're welcome. And for anyone in the audience, cheers be well. We'll see you on the next episode.

SPEAKER_01 49:44

Thanks for listening to our podcast. If you are a client and are looking to work directly with Chris andor our firm, head on over to Life After Grief FP. That is Life After Grief FP. The FP is for financial planning. If you are an advisor looking to emotionally and financially work with your client in grief, or if you are a client looking to get your advisor's head in the game, head on over to LifeAfter Grief Consulting.com. That is LifeAfter Grief Consulting.com. Any related information referenced in this week's podcast will be located here in the podcast section.