Real Talk with Life After Grief Chris
Real Talk with Life After Grief Chris
Publishing With Integrity
Use Left/Right to seek, Home/End to jump to start or end. Hold shift to jump forward or backward.
Writing a book can feel like a solo mission until you realize the draft is only the beginning. We sit down with Kim Eley of KWE Publishing to talk about what ethical, supportive publishing partnership actually looks like when the story is personal and the author is carrying real life alongside the work.
We get honest about the “sharky” parts of publishing, why marketing often becomes the hardest phase, and how authors can shift from living in their own head to speaking directly to the ideal reader. Kim breaks down why that mindset change is so tough and so necessary, especially for memoir writers who are sharing raw truth. Chris connects it to his world of grief and financial planning, where clarity and trust matter because people are overwhelmed and decision fatigue is real.
We also dig into practical due diligence: asking for references, reading professionalism signals, and choosing partners who show integrity, have your back, and stay invested over time. Then the conversation goes deeper into legacy. Chris shares why this memoir matters for his sons, what it feels like to revisit painful chapters after therapy, and how small moments of presence and parenting become part of the bigger purpose.
If you want to connect with Kim, we share where to find her online, including KWEpub.com and her https://kwepub.substack.com/. Subscribe for more conversations at the intersection of grief, money, and real life, and if this one helps, share it with someone who needs it and leave a review so more people can find the show.
And by the way....my AudioBook is live! Go here Life After Grief Audiobook by Chris Dale
Did you know you can now Help Us Continue Making Awesome Content for Listeners Affected by Grief!
Thanks for listening! Follow us on twitter or follow us on Facebook. You can also find us on LinkedIn.
Welcome And Why This Matters
SPEAKER_02Welcome to Real Talk with Life After Grief Chris, where we talk about relevant issues as it relates to individuals in grief as they navigate finances and the advisors to help them. We help clients in grief navigate financial matters. We also teach advisors how to emotionally and financially work with clients in grief through an unparalleled process. This week's podcast is sponsored by Life After Grief Financial Planning and Life After Grief Consulting.
SPEAKER_00Hello and welcome back to another episode of Real Talk with Life After Grief Chris. On today's podcast, I have a very special guest. She is a partner of mine, a very high-valued partner. And I've been kind of keeping her and her organization under wraps. And before I get started with today's episode, I wanted to take a moment to acknowledge a key part of how my book came to life. I self-published with the support of Kim Ely, Kim Wells Ely, now that I've announced who she is, and her firm, Kiwi Publishing, who partnered with me through the publishing process, helping with structure, clarity, and execution while keeping the book and the work true to my voice. Today I'm pleased to introduce Kim and her firm that has helped me steward this project. And if anyone knows me, they know that I rely on the experts. And I'm going to go into a little bit more detail before I give Kim the floor. I've learned early in my career that I am not an expert at everything. And actually, I'm probably an expert at very few things outside of my field. And so in this book publishing world, I was surely not an expert. So it was very important to me to find someone in an organization that could lead me through implicitly with integrity, with values, with comfort, and everything that I know about myself and ethics. And so Kim fits that to a T. And I was sharing with Kim before the podcast, it's also important for me to work with folks that really want to know and understand Chris Dale. I understand that I come with some complications. You can ask my wife about that. But that
Meeting Kim And Using Experts
SPEAKER_00isn't without reason and it wasn't isn't without a lot of experience. So, Kim, I want you to tell us about yourself.
SPEAKER_03Oh my gosh, Chris, thank you so, so much for having me as a guest. And I have to say, as someone who has listened to many, many of your podcasts, it's a little um surreal to be on in your podcast episode. But thank you. Um I'm so excited. And um, yeah, I I love everything that you said because to me you have to work with people who are going to be there for you, thick or thin. Anybody that you work with, you want to make sure that they have your back, they're on your side, and that they show up with integrity. I mean, goodness gracious, that's so important.
SPEAKER_00When I was looking for publishing partners, I again out of ignorance, I had no idea how sharky, I guess, the world of publishing really is. And I've had some colleagues who have been really taken advantage of. I've had some colleagues that, you know, thought that simply writing the book was the end-all be-all. And through this process, I found out that honestly, you're probably writing the book, in my opinion, at this point, was probably the easiest component. And I didn't know that. And out of ignorance, again, relying on Kim, um, you have given opened up this world to me of the marketing aspect.
SPEAKER_03Oh well, I'm glad to do so. And yes, you're right. Um it when authors first start, they think, oh, writing the book, getting it published, that's the hard part. And sometimes I I'm I always like to be really transparent and go, oh no, your journey has just begun. In fact, the marketing often is the most challenging part. Um because then I I think part of it, and you can tell me, Chris, because sometimes writing can feel like a solo activity. Um, when you are um you know sitting there, you know, pen to paper or or figures to keyboard, writing something. You're really in your own head, right? All of a sudden you have to go out of your own head and think about who's my ideal reader. Okay, what am I gonna say that's gonna resonate with them? And candidly, that's a leap that a lot of authors have a hard time making is it's not all about me, the author, it's about you, the reader, and what I'm bringing to you. And I think that's one reason why marketing is challenging, because you put yourself at somebody else's head.
SPEAKER_00Sure. I learned so much in the marketing aspect. And one of the first things as I was doing my due diligence was who is your ideal reader? And I did I never thought about that. No one had asked me that question. And so I thought about my ideal reader. Um, it's twofold. And so my ideal reader is someone like me, 17 years ago, that had no one to help them. And also, my ideal reader are advisors. Now am I in a position to help people that were like me. So it's it's that person that is in grief and the it's the advisor that is helping them. And so I had no idea that I I'm just simply like like you said, Kim, I'm in my own world, I'm you know, doing all this writing, and you put it in a book form, and there's a lot of other politics that go along with it.
SPEAKER_03Most definitely. I I think too, the marketing, it can be challenging. However, you being an entrepreneur are already ahead of the game, right? Because you have to think about marketing your services. But I think it's a different thing when it's a book, and especially um, I really love what you're sharing in your memoir, and it is so personal, that can be a very different thing. When you're sharing with somebody else about their finances, I imagine you're probably also sharing some of your story. This is sort of like you're opening up literally the whole book, and that's different.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, it's definitely different. And and so I say this um very lovingly. There are, and I'm gonna I'm gonna highlight ladies in particular, and this is kind of modeled after my mother. So there are ladies that I have come to know and understand. They will ask me a rhetorical question, but it's it's a question. Anyone else would think that it's a question, but for me, it's it's a rhetorical question, and it and it means, Chris, I really think that you should do this. And so in this process, um, my experience is no different with Kim. And she said, Um,
The Sharky Side Of Publishing
SPEAKER_00I'm gonna basically, I'm paraphrasing, but I'm gonna introduce you to a couple of marketing folks. And there were some questions, but they weren't questions. It was really a matter, I think you should do this. And um, when I have done a lot of uh research and due diligence up front, then there's an automatic comfort that I have, and I just take the advice and just kind of roll with it. Um, out of ignorance and not necessarily knowing what the whole process looks like. And this was no different. And as an extension, the marketing has really pushed me. And that's only one phase. And many folks have already experienced um this marketing phase, which is to be on my launch team, which I think is pretty cool. And again, another partner in the process um is helping me with that. But then on a broader scale, um I have another marketing partner that is really narrowly focused on kind of the people that I serve. I never would have thought about this. And again, this is um direction from Kim.
SPEAKER_03Oh, well, I'm so glad. And Chris, you talk about doing thorough vetting, which I think is so smart. And I wish more people would do that. But I like to do my own vetting and I only recommend people I know, love, and trust. And so I knew as soon as I introduced you to these people were good, but I also could see the writing on the wall. And I realized just like you're brand new to this, if the if the tables were turned, if I was wanting to know about you know financial planning, I would I come to expert. I am no expert. Um I'm a words gal, not a numbers gal. Um, but but same kind of thing. And I could see, I'm like, you know what? Your book is gonna make such a big impact, but once you know your ideal reader, you'll be able to focus on that niche. Sure. On that, and and that's gonna propel you faster and farther than you could go on your own. So I was thrilled that you picked up on my my subtle hint.
SPEAKER_00So what you didn't say is that Kim has done some research on me. So I I I'm reading between the lines there. So I'm smart enough to know better. And so Kim um works with people that she feels comfortable with too. So I know that that was unwritten, and so, but I know that I'm smart enough to know that. And um, one of the things that um I appreciate about folks that I work with, Kim, obviously this applies to you, is that I am very detailed. And sometimes that works with some folks, and sometimes that doesn't work with folks. That's just how I operate. And Kim has totally embraced my level of detail and a lot of the questions on the front end that I asked her about her firm and you know, some of the folks that she's helped out in the past. And I can tell you unequivocally, the professionalism that I experienced. And I read a lot into professionalism. So anybody that I asked her, so I always, always, in anything that I do, I always ask for references. So my experience with that was um overly yes, but here is what I'm gonna do. I am going to make a personal recommendation. They are going to know about you, they're gonna know why you're um, you know, calling them andor emailing them. And so every one of the references that I called said, Hey, I was expecting you um to give me a call, or I was expecting an email from you. I can say that my experience vetting other publishing partners was not that. Some folks said, Who are you? Um, haven't even heard of you. And so I read a lot into the professionalism, and that goes to confidence and you know what I'm doing, but also it transcends because when I'm working with clients, I have the same expectation that they have to feel comfortable with me. So, not that I can give that I can give references, but I can lead them to do research on me proactively. And so Kim did that, and we were on the same wavelength the entire time. That was what really resonated and brought comfort. And then as I'm going forward through this process, she's making recommendations that are outside of, you know, the specific scope of what she is doing, but it's to help me and to make me better. And so that that really resonates and it gives me a higher level of comfort, and it doesn't make me feel like I'm alone in the process. And it generally, I'm already excited about this process, but it takes me to another level.
SPEAKER_03Awesome. I love that. Thank you so much for saying that. And Chris, sometimes I'll share references with people, and they'll say, you know, I'd I'd like some references, and I'll contact the people on my list, and they're like, What happened to so and so? I never heard from them. Had the opposite experience, and
Finding Your Ideal Reader
SPEAKER_03I people were like, this was fun too. I don't think I told you about this part, but they were like, um, oh my gosh, I had the best conversation with Chris. He's fantastic. Like, like it sounds like you had some really like in-depth conversations. It wasn't just it wasn't just, you know, and I think that's so smart. And you know, it it it's important to me. It resonated with me when you were saying about your business that people are family to you, that you know, you become a part of their team. Yes, that resonates with me because I feel the same way. I'm not somebody who's gonna work with someone and then be like, hi, you know, glad to glad to see you. You know, I have people who I worked with, you know, colleagues when I first started in 2015, 2017, and they're still reaching out to me, and I love that. I want that relationship. If I see something that I think, oh my gosh, this would be perfect for Chris, I'm gonna reach out and tell you because I want you to succeed. I am invested in you and what you do. Um, so yeah, I think that makes a big difference. But I think doing that vetting, doing that initial homework, because you can't bring everybody into the um to paraphrase that thing was meet the meet the walkers or meet the parents is a circle of trust, right? But that really is a thing. It's like you can't just trust anybody and everybody. It's smart to do your homework, ask the questions, and also get that gut check too.
SPEAKER_00Right. Yeah. So one of the things too, and I was um having this conversation with someone in my um inner circle yesterday, I said the level of due diligence that I do up front when I'm engaging in any kind of a professional relationship, and I'll be candid, in a personal relationship at this aspect of my life allows me to have a lot more trust and not question things that are going on. For instance, when Kem had made these recommendations, yeah, I said, you know what, I've already done the due diligence up front. And so from here on out, it's a matter, okay, if she's asking this rhetorical question, it's okay, Chris, you just need to go ahead and do this. And I go and do it, and I have no question in my mind that is the right thing for me. And so I've generally followed that kind of faith because the people that are in my life are really vested and they're very, very trustworthy.
SPEAKER_03Awesome. I love that. I love that. So yay, I always say our values uh with Kiwi Publishing are integrity, fun, and result. And I think all three of those are important. Obviously, integrity. Without trust, you have nothing. With integrity, you have everything. Fun because it needs to be a fun process, right? Yes, it does. Yes, it is hard work, but it is also pretty incredible. Like, do you ever think to yourself, holy moly, I'm publishing a book.
SPEAKER_00I know that's crazy. That is crazy, right?
SPEAKER_03Right, but it's something that I always say, even though there's so many moving parts, and I know Chris, you're in the midst of this with doing the launch team, which is so exciting and the upcoming publication. Be sure to enjoy the ride as well, because it's so it it it it's it's this is the first and only time you'll be writing your first book, right?
SPEAKER_00That's correct, yes. So I have a story for you. It's taken me a long time to really reward myself, and I learned how to reward myself really through my boys and educating them. So Kim helped me, you know, with getting this draft, and it came together so fast. I was I was not prepared for me to have this draft so quickly. And
Vetting Partners And Checking References
SPEAKER_00so then my my I mean, my wheels were spinning. I'm like, man, I my draft is done already. And so I was like, I'm not even prepared to reward myself because it's come so quickly. And so my my older son, he's quick to reward himself, right? And and so getting it, he's methodical, more so like me, and you know, he will reward himself. But I'm like, man, I gotta reward myself. So I went out and bought myself my first pair of sneakers that I paid over $100 for. Think about that. And so, you know, sneakers, they always cost $100, but my price range for me is always like $80 because I've never really seen kind of the value and paying a whole bunch. So I bought myself a pair of Ja Morants and they're customized shoes. Um, I think they're like $140 or something like that. You can put your initials, your name on it, and you can customize all kinds of stuff. But so I rewarded myself with the draft, with doing the draft and bought that. And I'm thinking now longer term, you know, what I can reward myself with as well. You know, writing this, you've really kind of made me think about this. Is a memoir, but this is an ultimate legacy for my boys. They know a lot about their dad, and you know, the things that I've gone through in my life that is really really have shaped me to be who I am. Good, bad, or indifferent. Sometimes we joke and say Eli or Gideon and say, That's your dad. And I'll say, No, that's your brother. Well, well, they'll joke, and it's just kind of comical. But you and you know, being my publishing partner really brought a lot of this to light. And and I say this too, it's very there are very few people that can push me beyond the the fact that I can push myself. And Kim, you have done that, you have pushed me to be a much better professional and entrepreneur and all that because I've I've learned so much, and now I can pass that information on, even to people that have been seasoned writers that I've talked to, and they're like, You're doing what?
SPEAKER_03It's amazing. And I'm so glad that you mentioned. Well, first of all, I'm glad you rewarded yourself. And yes, you have to think about how you're gonna reward yourself with when your book is published. I love that you mentioned about your book being a legacy for Eli and Gideon, and as we've been working together, it's a similar process to ghostwriting. I put myself in your shoes, in your head. And so I thought a lot about Eli and Gideon and what you are sharing and what that's going to be. That's gonna be a treasure for them as they that they'll be excited when it first comes out. But I think it will mean it's just my thought. You can you can help me, but I feel like that will probably mean even more to them as they get older, as they graduate from high school and college, as they have families of their own. I mean, what a beautiful, incredible legacy, and yeah, it and and they're gonna get to know um their grandparents in an even more intimate and beautiful way. There's some raw parts in here, but there's some really beautiful parts. You are parents who are incredible, and it's you are a reflection of that because you look at how you show up every day. You're a leader, you're somebody who adults and kids seek out. I remember you said that one of uh your son's friends was like, Hey, can we hang out? And you found out it's because he thought you were cool, and so that's kids don't lie, they're not gonna judge if right, that's true. They tell how it is, practically, but what a legacy, and also for you to be able to share this with other people. I I love how you talk about that your ideal reader are people who have been through extreme, and I'm I'm not telling tales out of school. We you know, in your book, we describe you as a super survivor, and that truly fits because of all the things that you went through. You will be able to be a beacon of light for those people. And as you said in your book, you wished you had somebody who could be there to guide you. And I think it's so cool as a trailblazer that you are stepping up to the plate so you can be that leader for other people, and that's so powerful. So not only for people who are super survivors or people who are in grief, anybody who's in grief needs help, but especially super surpr survivors, but especially advisors, other people who are gonna be there like you are for people who are in grief, because it's more than just a financial commitment, it's it's a per it's personal.
SPEAKER_00Right. Very much so. It was painful to go back and rehash a lot of those things. Um, although I'm very candid about therapy that I've been through is some extensive therapy, and you'll read about that in my book. So my emotional response is not the same, but to look back and read it from a 30,000-foot view is it's it's different. Um, because when I was in the thick of writing things over the last 10 years, it was emotional to get emotional
Rewards, Values, And Enjoying The Ride
SPEAKER_00things out of my head. And then once I did that, I put them on a shelf and then I didn't revisit them until I had to go through therapy and then to go back and read them. It was really like an out-of-body experience. And I'm like, man, this stuff happened. This was me. This isn't somebody else that, you know, all this stuff happened. And then, you know, it did make me realize, Kim, what you had said is all of this stuff happened to me for a reason. And I had some choices in the matter. And overwhelming, I wouldn't change one thing that's happened in my life because it's brought me to this point. And I have a great life. So I'm enjoying the heck out of my boys, raising them with Amory. And I have this time to dedicate to them. I was being interviewed yesterday on a podcast. And so my younger son, Gideon, the door was closed, but they know it's always an open door policy. So he just comes in and I say, Hey, buddy, I'm on a podcast, I'm recording. And I say to my friend Maddie, I was like, my son's here. And so I paused. And then I took the time and I introduced Gideon to my friend Maddie. And something's very specific from a parenting standpoint is that if your child is seeking attention, he wanted to see me. I know he wanted to see me. And it was important for me to stop and take 30 seconds, acknowledge his presence, engage him, and then he was good. And when I was done with the podcast, I went downstairs and he was asleep. And so, but that is those are my mind is always going. And once I heard that door open, I knew it was him. I said, you know what? I got to stop here for 30 seconds. And so those are some of the benefits of what I've been through, the traumatics in my life, and then processing and understanding how this can be a better situation for someone else, specifically my sons. And you know, I like to tell stories, and that's a very specific story with a lot of thought behind it. It wasn't he just came in and busted in, and I was like, Oh, you know, he's interrupting the podcast. No, I've engaged him. And so I was like, Okay, you need anything else, buddy? He's like, Nope, I'm good. I'll see you later. Bye, Maddie. So he just left.
SPEAKER_03I love that. And and and I think sometimes people think that that's something I don't mean this to sound strange, but trivial, like, but but it's not because what your actions are saying to him is take it out, you know, you matter to me. I love that you have an open door policy, you know. You just say, Hey, I'm on a podcast, and he's like, Okay, cool. He just needed that time. And if you hadn't taken it, he would have been asleep when you finished, you would have missed that moment.
SPEAKER_00Yes, and I like being a father, it's cool, it's the coolest thing on the planet, so it is absolutely cool. Yes, and Kim, I I'm I'm really thankful that you and I became acquainted. I don't think it's an accident, so I'm gonna go through this story. I was asked to speak at a financial conference, I don't know, 2023 or 2024, I don't remember what year it was. And someone who was helping um organize the conference left me a book. You know, is it's really, you know, things are hectic and busy, and I have this bag, and I get back to Florida, and this individual reached out to me and said, Hey, I I left you a book. Did you did you get it? And I um responded to the email, and that was my first parlay into Kim as a publishing partner for someone else. And this individual happened to be one of the people that I would basically be marketing to. She was a widow, and I was just dumbfounded. And things don't happen for an accident. She was very aggressive about me reading her book, and I read her book. Again, another, another one of those ladies that enters my life and said, Hey, you didn't acknowledge
Memoir As Legacy Through Grief
SPEAKER_00me fast enough. You need to acknowledge me like yesterday, and didn't make me feel bad about it, but it was very demonstrative about it. And I I I read I read her book, and it gave me a very upfront and close and personal um aspect of really what a widow goes through and how chaotic their mind is, things that happen, and a widow's ability to compartmentalize and just push through life and then not remember um what they did, but acting as a robot. And I was like, well, if Kim was a publishing partner for her, um, let me see what this is all about. And I wasn't, you know, let down. So it was for me, it's all about connections. And again, it when I met Kim, I it one, it wasn't an accident, and then two, there was already a level of comfort there because of the type of person she was already helping out. So that's that speaks volumes for me, and I'm sure it speaks volumes for other people because the widow, if I'm comparing myself, um, this individual was at arguably a more tender spot than I was because of the timing um aspect of it. I wasn't fresh out of widowhood, I wasn't fresh out of a tragedy, let's say. I was at more of a normal point to where I could gather myself and things just weren't so chaotic. And so I was like, man, if if she can do that, she can, you know, really work with or she can um be a partner to crazy Chris. First time I've ever said that. So yes, so that but I I say that in all lovingly honesty to myself because my mind has been so chaotic for a long time, and so that's a little bit of background on how I came to meet Kim.
SPEAKER_03Thank you. I don't think you shared the whole story with me, and that's a great deal.
SPEAKER_00So, Kim, is there anything that I haven't done to do you justice other than the obvious of allowing folks the opportunity to converse with you outside of this podcast or how they get to find you or meet you or anything like that?
SPEAKER_03Oh, thank you so much. Goodness gracious, I'm grateful and I'm just I agree. I think we connected for a reason, and I'm just so thrilled. So no, if you want to share how people can get in touch with me, that would be awesome. But just know this is a this is a continuing partnership, my friend. We're gonna keep on going. Yes, it is.
SPEAKER_00So I'm gonna put her contact
How We Met, Where To Find Kim
SPEAKER_00information in the show notes. But um, what I want you I'm gonna ask you, Kim, is just um verbally, what is the best way for folks to find you?
SPEAKER_03Oh, yeah, absolutely. Find me on my website. And also I do Substack if y'all are familiar with that. Are you familiar with that, Chris?
SPEAKER_00I am, but I'm not sure that my reader my listeners are.
SPEAKER_03Oh, yeah. I love Substack. I discovered it a a couple years ago. And it's sort of like a uh a blog post that many, many people post. And it's a fantastic resource for anybody who wants to know about but not just writers and publishers, it's a wide field. But we also have a substack and we share weekly free information about writing, we share opportunities, we celebrate publishing, publish books. So you know, Chris, you're gonna be on that.
SPEAKER_00So what's your what is your website?
SPEAKER_03Oh, sure. It's um kw e pub.com. So it's uh like he we pub.
SPEAKER_00Okay, got it. Kwepub.com. Perfect. Kim, the pleasure is all mine. Thank you very much. I appreciate you.
SPEAKER_03Right back at you, Chris.
SPEAKER_00You're yes, you're a beautiful person to work with. So if if you don't see her, so if you're not able to see Kim, so commonly what I see, and it's very difficult difficult to get like warm and fuzzy over Zoom calls, but Kim always has this heart expression that she does, and it's so warming and it's so calming when you're working with someone, and it's so genuine. So again, I read into a lot of things, and so it makes you just feel comfortable. If you didn't, if you never saw her and she's on camera and she puts that up, you're like, man, she's gotta be a good person.
SPEAKER_01I thank you.
SPEAKER_00So I appreciate you being on um from the bottom of my heart, and I appreciate the messages you've left for my boys. Um, there was one in when you were uh in and around snow, you sent out for the boys in particular. So thank you. Thank you from the bottom of my heart. I couldn't have done this without you as my partner. So truly appreciate you. So again, I will leave the information for how to find Kem in the show notes. And for anyone that liked this podcast, please feel free to pass this on to any friends, family members, or colleagues. And I'm not sure where this is going to be published, if it's going to be prior to the launch or after the launch. But if it is, please feel free to join the launch team and I'll have that information in the show notes as well. Cheers be well. See you in the next episode.
SPEAKER_02Thanks for listening to our podcast. If you are a client and are looking to work directly with Chris andor our firm, head on over to Life After Grief FP. That is Life After Grief FD. The FP is for financial planning. If you are an advisor looking to emotionally and financially work with your client in grief, or if you are a client looking to get your advisor's head in the game, head on over to LifeAfter Grief Consulting.com. That is LifeAfter Grief Consulting.com. Any related information referenced in this week's podcast will be located here in the podcast section.