From Merrill Lynch to Canary: Rachel Schneider's Journey in Financial Wellness - ep. 063

Step into the world of financial wellness, remote work, and social entrepreneurship in this captivating podcast interview! Join co-hosts Rick Haney and Kaleem Clarkson as they welcome Rachel Schneider, the visionary founder and CEO of Canary, a company revolutionizing emergency payments for employees in crisis through a cutting-edge grant management solution.

As Rachel's remarkable journey unfolds, from her tenure at Merrill Lynch to her heartfelt dedication to financial well-being, you'll sense a genuine blend of admiration and apprehension from the hosts, making it an experience you can relate to. Rachel's life story, shaped by open family discussions about money and her transformative work with migrant farmworkers, serves as a backdrop for her pivotal career transition from investment banking to nonprofit advocacy. Explore Rachel's unwavering passion for assisting individuals facing financial hardships and the driving force behind her acclaimed book, "The Financial Diaries."

Dive deeper into the interview as Rachel unveils the birth of Canary and its innovative remote-first organizational structure. Gain profound insights into the challenges that people encounter during financial crises, with real-life examples that hit close to home. Discover how Canary empowers companies to establish emergency funds for employees grappling with unexpected financial hurdles. Throughout the conversation, personal anecdotes, expert insights, and discussions on Canary's mission effortlessly intertwine.

Enter the realm of social entrepreneurship as Rachel elucidates its essence—the application of entrepreneurial principles to tackle societal issues. Learn how Canary operates as a for-profit entity with a noble goal: formalizing and equalizing the informal support people offer in times of need.

Kaleem steers the conversation towards the intersection of remote work and social entrepreneurship, probing the impact of remote work on solving societal challenges. Rachel's perspective is illuminating; she sees remote work as a powerful force, especially in domains like home healthcare. It provides the freedom and flexibility for individuals to work where and how they're most productive.

The dialogue delves into the motivations behind companies establishing emergency funds. Rachel posits that it extends beyond financial assistance, fostering a culture of support and care within the organization. This aspect is particularly vital in remote work settings, where building and nurturing connections can prove challenging.

Concluding on a lighter note, Rachel shares a humorous anecdote about a colleague's virtual meeting mishap that leaves everyone in stitches. The hosts join in on the laughter, adding a delightful touch to this insightful interview. From the nuances of financial wellness to the dynamics of remote work culture, from community support to social entrepreneurship, this podcast covers it all. Don't miss this engaging blend of humor, personal stories, and invaluable insights!


Learn more about Rachel:

• LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/rachel-schneider-canary/
• Webpage - https://www.workwithcanary.com/
• Twitter - https://twitter.com/RachelSchneider

Transcript

Rick: 0:36

Am I on the tee in Boston? What was that? Boo Boo. Kenmore Square.

Rachel: 0:41

know that was remote work in action. My doorbell's ringing and my child is not answering it.

Kaleem: 0:49

Get the door. Damnit. I'm on a podcast.

Rachel: 0:52

it? Yeah. That's how it works. And I don't even know who that is. That's somebody trying to deliver something

Kaleem: 0:59

Are you wearing, are you wearing a, a prince shirt? It

Rachel: 1:02

No, it's a go-go shirt.

Kaleem: 1:04

That's pretty cool.

Rachel: 1:06

Yeah. Yeah.'cause I'm

Rick: 1:08

Wow. Olives are sealed.

Rachel: 1:11

Totally. Yeah. Mm-hmm.

Rick: 1:15

Doesn't matter.

Rachel: 1:17

exactly.

Kaleem: 1:19

We're the same age, Rachel, so don't call us old. Don't call us old. We're the same age

Rachel: 1:23

One of my colleagues said, oh, that's a nice graphic tee. And I'm like, it's not a graphic tee. It's a Gogo's t-shirt. They were inducted into the Hall of Fame. He looked at me, he blankly.

Kaleem: 1:35

I went to, uh, a concert with, you know, my, my daughter, she's 10 and, and. My partner and she, uh, I see all these unbelievable shirts. I see this nirvana, like the original Nirvana shirt, and it's all like faded. And I was like, wow. I walked up to the kid, I was like,'cause you know, I love rock music. I was like, yo. I was like, I love that shirt, man. I was like, you like nirvana? And he was like, who? And then, um, I walked away. I was like, oh. And then, and then I saw another person with like an ac dc shirt, and I was like, wait, my wife, she's like, clean. They sell those shirts at Walmart now. And I was like, oh my God. They're, they are, what are they called? Vintage. They're vintage shirts.

Rachel: 2:15

Exactly.

Rick: 2:21

Welcome back to Remotely one. I'm your co-host, Rick Haney. Joined by my esteemed colleague, Kaleem Clarkson. Hey bud.

Kaleem: 2:28

Shoot up

Rick: 2:31

Get back, baby.

Kaleem: 2:33

mcg.

Rick: 2:36

Sure. Hey everybody. Since you know how to find us, do us a huge favor, go to rate this podcast.com/remotely one. Just leave us a review. Not too much to ask, right? If you could do that, we would love you for it. Since 2015, remotely one has been one of the largest communities of remote work professionals with over 3000 Slack members and 5,000 email subscribers that can't beat the right numbers. We

Kaleem: 3:01

it is the right number We got there.

Rick: 3:04

You're growing up so fast, son. It's free to join. Go check it out@remotelyone.com. And with that housekeeping business out of the way, Kaleem, give us a tease or two about today's guest.

Kaleem: 3:15

Oh, gosh.

Rick: 3:17

Are you nervous again? I have a feeling you're nervous again.

Rachel: 3:20

No

Kaleem: 3:21

Yes, I am nervous because every person we've had on guest Rick, they're just better than me and it just makes me nervous. It makes me, it makes me like, uh, I don't know. Sweat and today's guess is no different. Yes.

Rick: 3:33

Mm yep. Okay. Shake it off. Shake it

Kaleem: 3:35

So, today's guess they are originally born in la, Los Angeles. Okay.

Rick: 3:43

The left coast.

Kaleem: 3:44

Yep. On the left coast. They are now a resident of New York, New York City.

Rick: 3:50

New York.

Kaleem: 3:51

Yes. Yep. Okay. And they are a graduate from the University of Chicago.

Rick: 3:57

Ooh,

Kaleem: 3:58

A Few learnings. few learnings. Go Bears. Go bears. And this is something interesting. Our guest, they really love roller coasters. Specifically the cyclone on Coney Island guest. How many times you been on the cyclone guest? How many times?

Rachel: 4:15

Oh I don't know if I can count.'cause you can go there and just go on it over and over, which is worth

Rick: 4:20

Oh my God.

Kaleem: 4:21

Now the reason why she likes it is because it's clickety clackity old school and kind of feel like you might not make it back. That's why she really enjoys that, that

Rick: 4:30

it's so old. It's run by a giant hamster wheel. That's how old it is.

Kaleem: 4:37

the OG of rollercoasters. Let's see what else? Oh, they are passionate about financial wellness. Which we're gonna talk a lot about today.

Rick: 4:44

Ooh. I'm excited for that.

Kaleem: 4:45

They are a former VP at Merrill Lynch.

Rick: 4:48

That's big time.

Kaleem: 4:49

yeah, yeah, just doing a few things. Just doing a few things. Oh, and then their extra time, they're an author. They wrote a book called The Financial Diaries, which is about the financial lives of working Americans.

Rick: 5:01

Wow.

Kaleem: 5:02

our guest today is the founder and c e o of Canary, listeners and viewers, please give a warm welcome to Rachel Schneider. Let's go's go.

Rachel: 5:19

Thank you. Thank you, thank you. Thank

Kaleem: 5:20

She's killing it. Crown down, down.

Rick: 5:27

Okay, people, let's be quiet. Quiet

Kaleem: 5:30

All right. Woo.

Rachel: 5:32

Oh, that was so fun. I wanna come on this podcast every day. I've never had an entrance like that. Yeah, that's

Rick: 5:38

Thanks for joining us.

Kaleem: 5:40

Yeah, that's our goal. Our goal is to be people's hype people as they walk out on stage. So your next TEDx talk, Rick and I will introduce you

Rachel: 5:49

Fantastic. I

Rick: 5:50

Wait, are your next talk? Wow. Is there one scheduled?

Rachel: 5:53

no.

Rick: 5:55

Oh, okay.

Rachel: 5:56

But you know, based on that intro, I feel like I've accomplished a lot, so I'm good.

Rick: 5:59

Oh, you certainly have. Let's dive into it, shall we? Before we begin, I want to talk a little bit about your, uh, something I plucked off of your LinkedIn page. It's Blue Sky Ideas and making them real, and for some reason, you know, that really spoke to me and as I dug in more, I started to really understand where you were going with that. So how much of that mindset led you to all the things that you're doing today, and did you ever have like a, an aha moment where you're like, alright, I'm, this is where I'm going, this is what I want to do.

Kaleem: 6:32

Hmm.

Rachel: 6:34

Such a good question. I wish I could say yes. I think it was more a windy path for me to figure out what to do. So I was always interested in financial things. I would, my parents were some of the all time best in terms of teaching about financial things. I think a lot, for a lot of people, financial wellness is sort of taboo. Nobody talks about, you know, how mortgages work at the dinner table. But my family really did, like, there was a lot of talk about like, what's a mortgage and how do you save for the future? And my mom did this great thing where she, matched our savings. Like, if I got$10 for my birthday and I put my savings account, she would double it, right? So she, they were always trying to, make it fun to think about the long term and your financial future and always trying to make sure we were educated about financial concepts. So it wasn't surprising when I then made a life that was about financial health. And I would say a lot of my career sort of goes back to my first formative professional experience where I worked with a low income population, um, migrant farm workers. And my job was to talk with folks about education. It was so sort of emotionally big for me to sit in people's living rooms and have them like to spill out their lives stories and like what their big challenges were. That sort of set me on this path of, let's think about how money interacts with what people really wanna accomplish in their lives and how we can make it easier for them.

Kaleem: 7:56

Hmm. So you went to school at University of Chicago. what really got you involved in the research that you ended up doing. And then, if I'm not mistaken, some of that led to your book. Can you talk a little bit about what about that, like what got you motivated in higher ed? Because those first few years for a lot of people are really difficult. Like you don't know what it is that you want to do. So how did that kind of play, play the route?

Rachel: 8:23

I'm definitely in that category, right? So I did a J D M B A at University of Chicago. It was after I had done the work I just mentioned where I was working with migrant farm workers. So I went into grad school, really passionate about poverty alleviation and economic mobility and how can you help people build a better and bigger life for themselves. Then I spent four years in grad school and came out of there pretty confused about what I should do, and went and was an investment banker for a bunch of years and sort of the exact opposite. Of what I had done before grad school. it took me a little while to, to return to what my original interest was. So I, I liked investment banking in some ways in that it was a great learning experience. I worked really hard, you know, you just see a lot pretty quickly, then I really wanted to be able to combine this knowledge about financial matters with helping people day to day. And so I spent. About 10 years working at a nonprofit called the Financial Health Network. And that's where I started, where I did the research that you're talking about, the Financial Diaries and Financial Health Network is, really all about how do we build the financial health and wellbeing of Americans, particularly those who are struggling. And we were really focused on like what are the actual day-to-day problems people experience. And so, you know, um, data point that I became really motivated around is when lots of people have heard now, which is that almost half of Americans can't easily pay for a$400 expense. So I was really passionate about, okay, well what are those moments when somebody's short end up meaning in their lives, right? I, my car broke down, or my rent is due and I don't have the money. And then what happens? I became really passionate about how do we solve that problem? And so Canary really comes out of the research that I did around that problem. And, the idea that the best thing to do in that moment is get, is get somebody the money, right? Like what they most need in that moment is, I need money to solve this near term problem. And so Canary is really about, helping employers to set up emergency funds for their employees so that when they experience that moment of crisis, They have somewhere to go and they feel like their employer has their back and their colleagues have their back.

Rick: 10:28

That's amazing. You talk about your, your parents' influence and teaching you a lot about, you know, finance. Having known that, was there something that, an experience or a personal moment that you may have had when you were, where you became more interested in helping people with that knowledge? Or was it just something that kind of evolved?

Kaleem: 10:48

Yeah, it's interesting'cause like from your family, right? Like you were being taught that stuff. So like what made you want to help people?

Rick: 10:56

Hmm.

Rachel: 10:56

it's a really good question. I mean, I think I just always felt really lucky. Like I grew up in a super easy way, right? My parents had stable jobs. My dad was a dentist. My mom was at home with me and my sister for a while, and then went back to school and became a social worker. She was a therapist. And, You know, I don't know. Maybe I was raised with a really strong sense that we were fortunate, right. That, that of course, like our financial security was the result of my parents' hard work. They had made a lot of good choices, but it was also really obviously the result of some luck. Right. As it is with everybody, like there's always some element of smart, hardworking in the right place at the right time, and. I think I always knew that. And so then when I was thinking about how to craft a life that would feel meaningful and useful, I was pretty focused on how you share that, how you help more people to feel that.

Kaleem: 11:55

uh, good parents. How about

Rachel: 11:56

Yeah. Good.

Rick: 11:57

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, yeah, sometimes that's really all that you need, really, I mean,

Kaleem: 12:01

Yeah, ma. Yeah, dad, well done. Well done. Like, listen, you can help. Listen, we're fortunate. There are less fortunate people in the world, so go out and just, you know, help people. Don't be such an, don't be an asshole, basically. And, and she did the right thing. She did

Rachel: 12:18

They really did Yeah. And now, I don't know if you guys have paid attention to this research at all, but there's really good data that says you will be happiest. If you anchor your life on helping others, like it's just relevant to your own wellbeing. There's this really interesting research around loneliness, right And so we have a national epidemic of loneliness. People are very sad and alone, and the thing. that helps with loneliness most isn't having somebody come visit the lonely person. It's asking a lonely person to go do something for somebody else.

Kaleem: 12:48

Yes.

Rick: 12:49

Hmm.

Rachel: 12:50

And I just think so, I don't know. I'd love to say it's all like I'm, you know, I just was raised with really great values. I also think I've personally experienced that your life is really satisfying if you organize

Rick: 13:01

Yeah.

Rachel: 13:01

being helpful,

Rick: 13:02

Have you ever heard of Zig Ziglar or Jim Rohn or any of those types of motivational speakers? They, uh, you know, back in the eighties and nineties they were, Really into the whole, uh, network marketing scene. But you know, Zig Ziglar was the one who said, you can have anything you want in life if you help enough people get what they want. And that always struck me, like, that's exactly what we're talking about here, right? It's living a life of servitude, serving others is incredibly fulfilling and. you do it and you don't expect anything back, but you always get something out of it.

Kaleem: 13:42

It's true. I mean, we're here for the kids. You know what I mean?

Rick: 13:45

That's right. right.

Rachel: 13:47

exactly. right. That's exactly right. And it could be funny also.

Kaleem: 13:51

right. We're here to help to keep the kids off the street. You know what I'm saying? You know? That's what we're doing. That's what we're doing.

Rachel: 13:57

that's exactly right.

Rick: 13:59

can you walk us up to the point where Canary was conceptualized and you know, what led to that. But also at what point did you decide that remote life was for you?

Rachel: 14:11

Yeah. Very good questions. So I've had the good fortune of having remote life for a long time. I. Relative to lots of folks. So I was an independent consultant for a while in between being an investment banker and going to the financial health network. So of course I got to work wherever I wanted. And it was a dream. It was like a dream. Several years in terms of. Like the flexibility of when and where I worked and I accomplished a ton. I was so productive in those few years. Then when I went to work at the Financial Health Network, I was really the first New York based employee of a Chicago based organization, so we didn't even talk about it as being, as working remotely. We didn't know those words. It was long enough ago that it was just they were making an accommodation to let me live in New York. And like experimenting with can we make it work to not have everybody be in the same place. So it always was a natural to me that, but as a result, like I did see what works and what doesn't work. You know, we had people all over the country by the time I left and that was pre pandemic. And it gets complicated. And Canary is a remote first organization, so you don't have office space at all. Like lots of startups, we've been growing up by hiring people wherever they live. So it's really, um, yeah, really delighted to talk more about that experience. Along the way. In parallel what happened, the way I ended up starting Canary is that, so I was doing this research, I was very excited about, um, like it's fun to be a thought leader, right? So I wrote a book, I wandered around the country talking about it. But I had also reached a point in my own career, my own personal progression where I wanted to get, I wanted to be more tangible in what I was doing. I had lived in the world of research and ideas for about 10 years, and I wanted to build something that helped the people that I was researching about their, you know, I was researching about people's financial challenges. I wanted to build something that would actually help more directly. And I was really focused on this idea of there being moments in people's lives where they're short. And those moments Can be the difference between an upward or downward trajectory. Right.

Kaleem: 16:13

can you give us an example? Like, like what do you, can you give us an example? What do you mean?

Rachel: 16:17

Yeah. So the story, we often tell the financial health space, you know, somebody's car breaks down, they don't have money to fix it, for lack of the money to fix the car. They start showing up to work late. They're taking an Uber to work. Now they're behind. They're less productive than they were because they're just distracted and unable to have control over their schedule. They're worried, they're scared that they aren't gonna be able to fix their car, and now what? So that also affects productivity. We know financial stress is a huge drag on productivity,

Kaleem: 16:48

Yep.

Rachel: 16:49

and in the meantime, they're taking Ubers to work and racking up debt and. So at some point you either lose your job or you have to take out a loan that's really expensive to pay for the car repair you know, here's this moment that was a$400 moment or a thousand dollars moment, and It has these really long, this long tail we know from some national research that. In any given year, about 60% of people experience, some kind of economic shock, right? Something happens in your life, somebody in your household loses a job, earns less than they thought they would, lives in the path of a hurricane, fill in the blank, right? And for about half of those people, no big deal, right? So 30% of Americans experience that shock and keep moving. But 30% of Americans say a year later, they're still dealing with some financial repercussions from that shock. And then, you know, some smaller percentage, those repercussions are really meaningful for them. And you know, they end up in a spiral of high cost loans or spending down all of their savings, or even worse, you know, getting evicted, having utilities turned off. So those are the kinds of things we were uncovering in the financial diaries. Research was the way that people experience volatility in their financial life, and sometimes that volatility causes really significant problems for people.

Kaleem: 18:10

Wow. Wow. So your thought was during that time, while you were finding this research,'cause somebody has to do that and a lot of times, you know, people would be like, oh, well, go to welfare, go to a, you know, supportive thing. I was kind of leaning into my next question. You actually were like, well, the companies could actually help in this case, like for them to pay out a thousand dollars. Could help. So could you talk about how your platform works? Is it a, like the companies just put money aside and basically like, how does that work? I mean, like,

Rachel: 18:42

Yeah, so I wish I could take credit for having had the idea. But what happened is I was talking about this issue. So I was, one of the talks I gave at the time was, at Walmart. I was their HR team and their financial services team and their foundation had paid attention to the diaries research. And so they invited me down to Bentonville to give that, give a talk, and I was ending every talk with something about this that like, You know, we needed a way to get people the money that they need when they need it. And afterwards, somebody from their foundation came up to me and said, you know, we do that. And it turns out Walmart has this multimillion dollar fund. If you work at Walmart and you experience a crisis, you can go and request help. And that set me down this path. So they ended up giving me, and this was also like during a hardcore remote work period for me.'cause I was no longer working for the Financial health network. I was working for the Aspen Institute, which is a think pay, think based in DC. Walmart gave me a grant to go and research best practices around how employers are doing this work today. So Walmart's not alone. Starbucks, home Depot, target, like I could go down a long list, have funds like this in place where if you work for them and you experience a crisis, you can go and request help. And so I assembled, you know, on the remote work theme, like a team of people. We had a team of people in Boston. We had some people in dc, we had me in New York, and we did research about how employers were doing this work.

Kaleem: 22:08

So Canary started off remote, like Canary was remote first, from the very beginning, kind of following your higher ed because in research you're kind of working with people all over the country as a researcher, so,

Rachel: 22:19

Yeah.

Kaleem: 22:19

kind of continued that. Right.

Rachel: 22:20

Exactly. We were really used to it. And at the time I wasn't sure that Canary was gonna be a company. I thought maybe it's a research effort, maybe it's, uh, you know, but I knew I wanted to grow this practice. So a lot of large companies have put programs in place to be able to do grants for their employees, but often those programs aren't super well publicized internally at the company. Right. So I guarantee you, you could walk into. One of the locations of any of those companies and ask people about this, and they might or might not know that their company has this in place. I also thought smaller companies aren't gonna be able to build this infrastructure themselves, and there's a lot of value to having a third party be part of it, right? So you as an employee, maybe don't wanna go to your boss or your HR leader and say, I'm about to be evicted. I need some help. But to be able to go to Canary and say, that really preserves your dignity at the workplace, right. At work. You wanna show up with your best foot forward. You don't wanna say, I'm sleeping in my car, you know, or,

Kaleem: 23:20

or or no?

Rachel: 23:21

it's not anonymous to us.'cause we are then going back and forth with the individual, understanding their situation, making sure that they meet the guidelines to receive a grant. But we don't report any of that information back to the company.

Kaleem: 23:33

That's great.

Rachel: 23:34

Yeah, it's really a dignified experience then for the employee. Yeah, and you had asked, you know, what's the basic mechanics here? What's going on is really, we're facilitating a charitable activity that a company donates money to a nonprofit called the Canary Impact Lab. And that money is earmarked for if employees at our company experience a crisis. And it has to be that they've experienced something unpredictable, unavoidable. That they can't pay for basic living expenses as a result. So our job is to make sure that the individual applying meets those criteria and is treated with really a huge amount of care. And that's what we're doing. Yeah.

Kaleem: 24:12

Such a great idea. Such a great idea. And I, it's shocking to hear that too.'cause I remember it hasn't been that long ago where college, where you're like, oh man, like, we're short, we're short. You know? And then even as you get older, you know in your. Early, late twenties, early thirties, it's easy for something that the car is a perfect example. How many times did the hoop tea, how many times did the hoop teas muffler come off? And in the northeast you have inspections. So every single time you go and get an inspection that's solid seven 50, that's seven 50 a cash. That's gotta come from somewhere. And you're like, ah, damn. And just thinking like how companies, just a little bit of money and the fact that it's anonymous from the company side. That was really, really smart. That's interesting.

Rick: 24:59

Mm.

Rachel: 24:59

it's really powerful. And you know, I think there's something really important here around community, around like, you know, when I was first doing this work and we were just doing research, um, shouldn't just say in the research phase here, it was pre pandemic and so I was traveling a lot and, you know, I chitchat with people and I remember being in one, taxi on my way to the airport where, you know, the driver asked me what I do and he immediately said, oh, this place I work, used to do That. And that's. off the response. I get like, oh, I worked in this place, and when somebody had a problem, we would take up collection like often, it's informal, right? Like, Um, in the Dyers research, what we saw a lot of was somebody would've a crisis and their neighbors would all host a potluck, or their neighbors would all take up. Like, they'd be like, well, you know, so and so had a fire. Like, who's got baby clothes? Right? Like, this behavior of helping each other is just informally. It's just what humans do. We do it for each other and it often takes place in the workplace. Like somebody will have a GoFundMe and distribute it around, right? And, So I really think what we're doing, what we're trying to do is formalize this informal activity and make it a more robust, equitable part of a company's culture. Because when it's informal, there's a lot Of value to that. It can feel really warm. People really like helping each other, as we talked about. But there's also, you know, the people who have the most social capital are gonna get the most help. Like the extroverts are gonna get, helped the people with a lot of. Um, with a known problem, but lots of people don't wanna tell other people what their hardship is.

Kaleem: 26:32

No, we're private.

Rick: 26:33

Hmm,

Kaleem: 26:33

I get that.

Rachel: 26:34

Yeah. So I think what we're doing is trying to bring some more equity to this practice also.

Rick: 26:38

Oh,

Rachel: 26:40

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Exactly. Exactly. And, and, you, know, we wanna, we wanna make it the case that all companies set up a fund for their people. So that's the goal.

Kaleem: 26:50

You hear that run on over the canary. Run on over the canary. If you

Rick: 26:53

it.

Kaleem: 26:53

that it's confidential, check

Rick: 26:56

Yeah. Yeah. you know, thinking like a business can sometimes help solve a societal issue that's, you know, sustainable. Can you talk a little bit about, social entrepreneurship and maybe explain what that term means for our audience?

Kaleem: 27:12

Oh, you stole that. question, Rick. That's a good one.

Rachel: 27:16

That is a good question. So I don't, I'm sure there's a better definition, but I think of social entrepreneurship as when you bring all of the, everything we love about entrepreneurship, right? The creativity, the like, willingness to take risks, the desire to find, um, To make something big and successful, you try and bring that urge. And often entrepre, you know, we think about entrepreneurship as a private sector thing, but it's certainly not only a private sector thing, but in our case we think about it as, you know, can you bring all of that energy or entrepreneurship into solving a social problem?

Kaleem: 27:52

Wow.

Rachel: 27:53

and I do think That's the category of business that we're in, that we're social entrepreneurs. So we started as a for-profit. Our goal is to, right, we charge an administrative fee to a company for managing this for them. Um, and the reason I started as a for-profit was really so that we could be as entrepreneurial as possible. You know, we wanted to be able to grow, we wanna be able to attract great people, and we wanna bring the urgency that often comes with me having a bottom line. that you've gotta satisfy.

Kaleem: 28:22

social entrepreneurship, shout out se that was actually one of my master classes. I took that and it is fascinating because the idea of it being sustainable, I think a lot of times people look at nonprofits once you get that.org. They believe that you're just depending on donations and then a lot of charities kind of fall into that a little bit and kind of lose that edge to like, okay, how are we gonna design a program that's actually going to support itself? I just absolutely love the, first, the drive to, to identify the problem and a problem that's solvable too. Like, I mean,$1,700 for my hoopty to get fixed is not a big deal. I. so yeah, I really, really, really enjoy it. So I have a question kind of bouncing off that a little bit. So you started off as remote? Remote first, just because for a lot of people that aren't in higher ed researchers, they are remote workers. They work with people all over the country, so they're used to it. So what role do you kind of see remote work playing in solving these societal problems? You know, earlier this year, I had a chance to work with the Make-A-Wish Foundation. They decided to go fully remote, remote first. There's a lot of headlines of everyone returning to the office, but there aren't that many headlines of nonprofits, small businesses, understanding that those expenses could be used for something else. So I guess my question to you is, do you see remote work continuously playing a role in social entrepreneurship or, social challenges?

Rachel: 30:00

Yeah, I really do, I'm thinking as you ask that question, you know, how does it compare to how I think remote work is gonna continue to be a strong trend within other kinds of work, but I certainly think, and I'm thinking about our team at Canary and we have folks all over the country and they're drawn to work with us because they're really committed to the mission

Kaleem: 30:21

Ah.

Rachel: 30:21

and

Kaleem: 30:22

Is that word value again?

Rachel: 30:24

Yeah. Like they're really committed to the mission and, you know, maybe in one way to think about it is, at the moment, we pay like a startup, right? So like, everyone who works for us could make more money elsewhere, period. Right? Like they could all go work for more established companies and they'd have greater job security and higher salaries. So what do we offer in exchange for them taking this risk, right? They're taking a pretty big risk on working with such an early stage company. It's really hard work. What we can offer in exchange is really seeing and valuing them as people. And part of that means people need to be able to live and work where they wanna live and work. And I know you've talked about it, and I was listening to some of your other episodes, it's really about the giving people the flexibility to work when and how they work most productively. And I know from my own personal experience how much that made a difference for me, right? When my kids were little. I had so much flexibility and I was off and online at night, but I was able to be at music class with a toddler during the day

Kaleem: 31:22

Yes.

Rachel: 31:22

and it Just really worked for me. I really delivered during those years. Like I know I did, I delivered a lot of really high quality work that I would not have been able to deliver, in the same way if I hadn't had so much freedom. So, I think that's, that's a theme for everyone. And maybe it's even more true for those of us in the social entrepreneurship world where what we're really giving people is meaning and purpose. Like, that's the goal cure, right?

Rick: 31:47

I think that's true with everything.

Rachel: 31:49

I think so too.

Rick: 31:51

At the end of the day, what else do you have?

Rachel: 31:53

I, I feel that way too. Like I, you know, so I did spend seven years doing investment banking at Merrill Lynch. And I remember so clearly interviewing for, that job, And one of the people on the hiring committee said, you know, if you're just here for the money, it won't be enough. And I remember thinking in my jaded, you know, 25 year old brain, like, you guys make a lot of money. I think it's possible. I think it's possible that when we're talking about the amount of Money that you guys make, Maybe that's like enough. Um,

Kaleem: 32:21

does buy happiness.

Rachel: 32:22

I, I was like, maybe, maybe. But you know what? I actually think that the people who were best at that job were the people. And I, I did, I was in a telecom m and a group. The people who were best at it were people who were really geared up about the future of the telecommunications industry and who was gonna win and which companies had the best. Like, those were the people who like really thrived, right? Because it was for them about more than the money they cared about, the content they made relationships with. They were true advisors. They, they made relationships with their clients and were true advisors.'cause they really cared. And it was about building something bigger. It wasn't only about the money. Right. so I, Yeah. I think this feeling is true for most of us maybe everybody like you, you need to think what you do matters to somebody.

Kaleem: 33:08

As far as the clients you serve, have you had any kind of data kind of to see between the companies that you're working with that are remote versus the companies that are not remote and whether those funds are either. You know, I guess first question is the size of the fund in, in relation to the size of the company, and then are you seeing usage more from, remote companies versus onsite companies? Like what's the impact of remote work when you're talking about, you know, financial giving from a corporation?

Rachel: 33:42

yeah, I love that question. It's so important. So I don't think we have the data yet, but this is what I think, based on, What I know about our client base. The actual usage of the emergency fund is gonna be relatively low. Like, and you hope it will be right. You hope not that many people will have a true crisis every year and come ask for help. But we know that Companies that all employees benefit from and really care about knowing that their company is the kind of company who would have a fund like this in place, Right. So there's this broader claim you're making to all your people. We have each other's back, we have your back, we care. And I think that claim is really important to back up with action. In the remote environment, you have to work. I mean, you know this better than I do in the remote environment. You have to work a lot harder to make sure people feel connected to each other, and you've gotta come up with ways that that connection is tangible, that don't involve, you know, snacks in the break room. And so my hypothesis is that having an emergency fund in place is really valuable for remote. Companies, because it's a way to make your connection to people very clear, very tangible.

Kaleem: 34:56

Visual, tangible commitment to your people.

Rick: 35:00

it's also leading by example.

Rachel: 35:02

Yes. exactly. So what we hear from companies as a major motivator about why they would put a fund in place, the first thing people say is because it felt good and it was the right thing to do. Right. The second thing is people tell the story. So that I told about how, you know, It had a great employee who, but for a financial crisis would still be a great employee, but you know, no longer is. And then people talk about retention,

Kaleem: 35:28

Yes.

Rachel: 35:29

engagement, right? And I think Retention, engagement. in a Ramone environment, right, there're different challenges than they are in a in-person environment.

Kaleem: 35:37

Well, I have a feeling you're gonna have a great data set in about five years, so let me subscribe to that newsletter. I wanna see that data report when it comes out. I tell you that.

Rachel: 35:46

Yeah, exactly. And I love this or this pointer to keep the remote versus in person, as a filter for that research. You know, a lot of the folks that we are working with, They're remote and not in the way people typical, like when we think about remote, we usually think about me or you like, like office workers basically. But an early adopter, like a, a segment that has been really strong for us has been home healthcare,

Kaleem: 36:11

Yeah. Healthcare is, actually the largest sector of remote workers.

Rachel: 36:14

it is.

Kaleem: 36:15

One of them. yeah,

Rachel: 36:16

to know that. Right.

Kaleem: 36:17

yeah.

Rachel: 36:18

home healthcare.

Kaleem: 36:19

Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. Medical transcriptionists,

Rachel: 36:23

Yes, exactly. So those folks, you know, like those group of companies have been early adopters of what we're doing here. And I think it's because they really understand that service matters. Like you're, like, that's a remote job that's pretty hard, pretty lonely, and you need a lot of support to be able to keep doing it well.

Rick: 36:41

For sure. Rachel, could you possibly bestow upon us, this is Kareem's favorite part of the show, a funny or inspiring moment that you experienced while working remotely.

Rachel: 36:53

Uh, I love this question so much and I have like the, you know, the raft of noise in the background of Zoom call that we all have, but I put this question actually out to my team. I was curious what other people have experienced.

Kaleem: 37:05

Okay. I like that.

Rick: 37:06

Good.

Rachel: 37:07

Yeah. Well and also what, you know, like anything else, let's build, let's have an active slack conversation that's necessary to the remote work culture. So one of my colleagues shared a story that is so, so funny. He was talking about a guy who he worked with for a long time, um, who would,

Kaleem: 37:27

What, hang on, let's rewind a little bit. What type of company, you know, like, like, I, I need to get a little, a little

Rachel: 37:33

this was a software development firm. This was a bunch Of tech workers, right? Coding,

Kaleem: 37:39

I'm feeling it.

Rachel: 37:40

um, and Right, exactly. Typing. And one guy would work from home most of the time. This was before we called remote, remote, but was working from home 99% of the time and would almost never turn his camera on even for, you know, daily, regular calls. So, right. Why why would you, turn your camera on? So at some point they had a bunch of new people on the team. You can see where this is going, right. So, so, so somebody said, you know, we really needed you to turn your camera on just to meet these new people on the team. He groaned. He said, okay, I've gotta go put a shirt on, right? Fine. Comes back, turns on his camera for 10 seconds, and then turns the camera off again and says, hold on. My girlfriend's naked too.

Kaleem: 38:26

I I I I don't understand. Like, bro, you just, you just, I don't understand, bro. You just told them, hang on. Like, I don't understand. I don't understand the situation.

Rachel: 38:39

right? While he turned his camera off. You know, we're all naked here. gotta turn the

Kaleem: 38:42

uh,

Rachel: 38:42

off.

Rick: 38:44

there's the answer as to why he didn't want his camera on ever.

Rachel: 38:47

Right? So now that's the problem. Like, now you're stuck with that knowledge forever on calls with him. Right.

Kaleem: 38:54

away. I mean, like what?

Rachel: 38:56

Don't talk about it. It's not necessary.

Rick: 38:58

Yeah,

Kaleem: 38:58

Oh my gosh. I love that That's so great.

Rick: 39:01

the line fella.

Kaleem: 39:03

second. My girlfriend's naked, so it wasn't as if, you know, he just turned it right back off and he was like, my girlfriend's naked. Come on it person.

Rachel: 39:12

Right.

Kaleem: 39:12

We're better than that. I'm an IT person. Kind of

Rick: 39:15

Yeah.

Rachel: 39:16

Yeah, I know,

Rick: 39:17

Oh man. Some people, what are you gonna do,

Rachel: 39:21

right?

Rick: 39:22

Rachel? Where can our listeners find you?

Rachel: 39:24

You can find me on LinkedIn. you? can find me on email. On LinkedIn, Rachel at Canary, you're ultimately gonna find me. Or email is rachel@workwithcanary.com. That's our website. Work with canary.com. You can find us there too.

Rick: 39:37

Awesome. Awesome. Well, this has been an amazing conversation. Thank you so much. I loved learning from you. Thank you for being on the show.

Kaleem: 39:44

thank you. And I have to teach the little one a lot about savings. Now that like, basically, you know, you are a great human being. I have to do better. So I'm gonna go teach, I'm gonna start saving, we're gonna start talking about money. I'm gonna start doubling, doubling her investments. So thank you For sharing that wealth of knowledge.

Rachel: 40:05

Oh, well, I'm so glad. Thank you so much for having me on. It was so fun to talk with both of you.

Kaleem: 40:10

awesome.

Rachel: 40:11

okay Thanks so much.

Rick: 40:12

Peace.