A Journey from Corporate Media to Remote Work Entrepreneurship: Unlocking Success with Wrkfrce CEO, Jesse Chambers - ep. 073

Join hosts Rick Haney and Kaleem Clarkson as they engage in a lively and insightful conversation with Jesse Chambers, the visionary founder behind Wrkfrce, a premier digital media brand specializing in remote work. In this lively and insightful interview, Jesse recounts his journey from the confines of corporate media to the boundless realm of entrepreneurship, detailing the pivotal moments that culminated in the establishment of Wrkfrce.

Drawing from his experiences at AOL and Verizon Media during pivotal transitions and acquisitions, Jesse's entrepreneurial drive ignited his passion for remote work. Motivated by his firsthand experiences living in an Airstream trailer with his spouse, Jesse was inspired to align his mindset with his professional endeavors, laying the foundation for Wrkfrce. This profound realization propelled him on a journey of self-reflection, ultimately leading to the creation of a platform designed to address the unmet needs of remote workers by offering invaluable resources and insights.

Wrkfrce's content ecosystem is meticulously curated to encompass various topics vital to remote work enthusiasts, ranging from productivity optimization strategies to achieving a harmonious work-life balance. Jesse's interests extend to the evolving landscape of remote work, shedding light on the resurgence of office-centric work environments and the imperative for businesses to embrace adaptability to allure and retain top-tier talent. His insights, underscored by adaptability, continuous skill enhancement, and attentive employee engagement, resonate deeply with both individuals and enterprises navigating the remote work domain.

Reflecting on his personal experience transitioning to remote work while living in an Airstream trailer, Jesse shares anecdotes about the challenges of internet connectivity and the freedom it afforded him to work from various locations. His journey serves as inspiration for individuals seeking fulfillment and success in the dynamic world of remote employment, illuminating the trials of internet connectivity juxtaposed with the liberating freedom of location-independent work.

Jesse's passion for empowering and educating remote workers shines through, fostering a sense of camaraderie and shared experiences. Join Rick, Kaleem, and Jesse as they explore the transformative power of pursuing one's passions and shaping the future of work through entrepreneurship. Don’t miss out and get ready to take notes!

Keep leading the way in empowering remote workers and shaping the future of work, Jesse!

Learn more about Jesse:

• Workforce: https://wrkfrce.com/
• Jesse’s LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jessewrkfrce

Transcript

Kaleem: 0:35

Well, nice to see you, bro. Appreciate you taking the time, man.

Jesse: 0:37

And you, and thanks, yeah, thanks for you guys help troubleshooting my audio. The audio, you know, never, never, never goes the way you want it to go or, you know, this is like the first time that that mic has never not been like way better than these headphones. So, uh,

Kaleem: 0:51

it could be a bad chord, you know, as you never know what, what it could be, you know what I

Jesse: 0:55

Yeah,

Rick: 0:55

it's, what we call, when I was in audio engineering school, it's what we'd call signal flowis interruptus.

Jesse: 1:02

Yes. The audio engineering school of MIT, that's the, uh, the technical term.

Rick: 1:11

Yep.

Kaleem: 1:13

Oh, that is great, rick, can you give us a little more gain for yourself?

Rick: 1:17

I'm gaining on you. How about this do it how do we do now? We

Kaleem: 1:20

oh yes.

Rick: 1:21

Are we in the smooth zone?

Kaleem: 1:23

Oh baby.

Jesse: 1:24

smooth.

Rick: 1:25

not enough O's in smooth

Kaleem: 1:28

baby.

Rick: 1:29

Dr. Love coming at you

Kaleem: 1:31

The Love Doctor. This is the, this is the podcast that we're here. We're

Jesse: 1:35

I think I clicked on the wrong link.

Rick: 1:38

Loving the show was wrong, I don't want to be right Hey, everybody. Welcome back to Remotely One. I'm your host, Rick Haney, joined by my esteemed colleague, Kaleem Clarkson. How are you doing today, buddy?

Kaleem: 1:57

Oh man, I'm great, man. Feeling good. Geeked as always though. Geeked as always for today's guest. Bro,

Rick: 2:07

I went and looked at the show notes you sent me at five o'clock this morning, and I almost shit a brick. I'm like, what's he on? Let's see. He's on point.

Kaleem: 2:17

You know why? You know why Rick?

Rick: 2:19

What? Oh, you got it. You got it.

Kaleem: 2:22

That's right, bro. I took you up on your magic mind recommendation, bro. And I can't tell you. I can't tell you how alert I am. I'm just

Rick: 2:31

isn't it amazing? I can't believe you got it so fast. That's incredible.

Kaleem: 2:35

Yeah, man, it's good, man. It tastes good. It's natural. What I just love about it, man, is, is like, it's natural. It's the buzz. I don't have the jitters, Rick. I just don't have those jitters. So it's awesome, man.

Rick: 2:47

isn't it? amazing how something with absolutely no caffeine and pretty much all natural ingredients can Set the tone for the entire day.

Kaleem: 2:56

Crazy, bro. I can't believe it, but for real, Rick, I remember last time you were telling our audience how they can get some of this magic for their mind. You know what I mean? How can

Rick: 3:06

Yes, sir. Yes, sir. Thank you for bringing that up. It's real easy. All they gotta do is go to magicmind. com forward slash remotely one and actually get up to 56 percent off the subscription for the next 10 days or 20 percent off a one time purchase with our code and that code is remotely 120. R E M O T E L Y O N E 2 0. That's our code, baby.

Kaleem: 3:35

There it

Rick: 3:36

Use it or you lose it.

Kaleem: 3:38

Use it. or lose it. baby.

Rick: 3:40

I love it. Hey, with all that out of the way, Kaleem, give us a tease or two about today's guest.

Kaleem: 3:45

Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Had to put on the multiple shirts again, sir, because I guess make me a little nervous. Okay, so

Rick: 3:53

did you double shirt today? Did you

Kaleem: 3:55

I did. I did. double shirt for sure. I can't sweat through this. Can't sweat through this. Don't want my guests to see those all sweated out. Don't want to see that.

Rick: 4:04

our coaches used to say? If you ain't sweaty, you ain't ready.

Kaleem: 4:13

I am sorry. There's just so many dumb ass shit. Coaches say, coaches say the dumbest shit, don't They

Rick: 4:18

All set? You bet!

Kaleem: 4:21

Oh my gosh. So our guest today, Rick, they're originally from New York. All right. they're New Yorker. They currently reside in Austin, Texas.

Rick: 4:31

that's a culture shift.

Kaleem: 4:33

Yeah. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Earlier in their career. They were the director of sales for a little company America Online Tech AOL Tech.

Rick: 4:44

Boy, oh boy.

Kaleem: 4:45

Yeah, yeah,

Rick: 4:46

got mail.

Kaleem: 4:48

There it is. So, they work with brands like TechCrunch, Indigadget, Crunchbase. Just a few brands that you might've heard of. He then went on to be the global head of premium content for another small little brand, Verizon

Rick: 5:02

Oh, can you

Kaleem: 5:03

Yeah.

Rick: 5:04

Can you hear me now?

Kaleem: 5:06

Huh? Huh?

Rick: 5:07

now? Can you hear me now?

Kaleem: 5:09

Oh, okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So this is interesting. This is interesting. So our guest. He says he's about six to six, three. Okay. And, uh, he loves Chihuahuas. So sometimes once in a while, you may see this six foot three, larger size man walking through the parking lot with his Chihuahua, Rick,

Rick: 5:34

of these things is not like the other.

Kaleem: 5:38

he, his wife and his Chihuahua, they moved into a 27 foot. Airstream trailer. Remember those bro?

Rick: 5:44

oh, I want to hear about this. Yeah.

Kaleem: 5:47

they drove around the u. s Uh, oh, he's a two time remote. com top 100 150 influencer Congratulations guests on that.

Rick: 5:57

Fantastic.

Kaleem: 5:58

He is the operator in residence at a little Known incubator called Techstars. I mean, yeah.

Rick: 6:09

Goodness gracious.

Kaleem: 6:10

It's like, what am I doing, Rick? Shit. okaY. Not only that, but our guest today is the founder and CEO of Workforce, which is the leading digital media brand for remote work. Listeners and viewers, please give a warm welcome to Jesse Chambers!

Rick: 6:40

That was an homage to

Kaleem: 6:41

Woo.

Rick: 6:41

chihuahua. Ay, ay,

Kaleem: 6:43

Oh,

Rick: 6:43

ay,

Jesse: 6:43

Oh,

Kaleem: 6:44

bring that one in. Settle down, studio audience. Settle your asses down

Rick: 6:48

front, relax,

Kaleem: 6:48

Woo.

Rick: 6:49

assemblies.

Kaleem: 6:50

They do get loud. Sorry about that. Jesse studio audience. Thank you for coming, bro. Thank you. Whoo.

Jesse: 6:58

when my alarm goes off. That's going to fire me up and get me to start my day the right way. That was amazing.

Rick: 7:03

Now we're talking.

Kaleem: 7:04

That's what we're talking about.

Jesse: 7:06

Rick, I didn't realize that you coordinate or you recorded the you've got mail tag. I mean, dead ringer. For that

Rick: 7:17

This is my real voice. This is how I talk in everyday life.

Jesse: 7:23

regret that some of the residuals from that have probably lessened over the years, but I'm sure it was very lucrative for you for a little while in the late 90s and early aughts.

Rick: 7:31

Yeah, so I'm down to my shoebox apartment now.

Kaleem: 7:34

What the hell were you thinking? Not just recording a whole bunch of those. Jeez. Come on,

Jesse: 7:43

I also would like to point out to the audience at home to quickly that actually really did do a shot of magic mind if you guys don't have the video. So, he's not playing. He really did it. So that energy is only going to pick up over the next 30 minutes or so. Very impressive.

Rick: 7:58

I'll tell you what. I mean, you got courage, brother, doing it this late in the day, but where it doesn't have caffeine, you might go to sleep tonight entirely focused on going to sleep, which means you're going to sleep better. I'm just saying. Jesse, thank you so much for joining us. It's great to have you. I have so many questions, and I know Kaleem does too. We're excited to, to bring you on today, but, you know, Airstream. I've seen these things my whole life. I love the nostalgia that surrounds them. I'm a huge vintage guy. I love all things old. And you took going mobile to heart, but you did it with style.

Jesse: 8:37

Well, thank you

Rick: 8:37

what inspired you and your wife to really experience the digital nomad life

Kaleem: 8:43

Yeah.

Rick: 8:44

flair?

Jesse: 8:46

Well, to be honest, like, like any smart husband, my wife inspired me to buy an Airstream. So,

Kaleem: 8:52

Nice shout out. Did you mind saying her name? So we can give her the true love.

Jesse: 8:57

The intelligent and beautiful Lindsey Chambers, you can find her on LinkedIn and

Kaleem: 9:01

shout out, Lindsay. That's what we're talking about.

Jesse: 9:04

she would also, we, the travel gram of our time in the Airstream was at wandering. america on Instagram. So if people want to follow that, you can see lots of shots of the Airstream and my lovely wife. Yeah, so Rick, you know, she, like you, big vintage fan. She actually owned a vintage clothing store in San Francisco. And the, it was born of really a practical necessity when I founded Workforce. I was living in San Francisco, and I quickly realized that the idea of founding and bootstrapping a startup and paying for housing in the Bay Area was not going to be a practical solution. And, as we were thinking about what our alternatives were, we had always dreamed of traveling the country in an Airstream because of her love of all things vintage. We didn't ever think we'd actually be able to do it, but we crunched the numbers and, realized that it was going to be a whole lot cheaper than living in San Francisco. It was also going to align really well with what I was doing with the business. And it was a chance for my wife to, buy and decorate an Airstream trailer. So, we took the leap and did it and you should too.

Rick: 10:11

I hope to someday, I'll be honest with you. Now you mentioned, how long ago were you guys, or did you leave San Francisco?

Jesse: 10:18

Yeah. So, we founded the company. I founded the company in 2019. So we left San Francisco and our place in San Francisco pretty much sold everything except for things like college year, high school yearbooks and my record collection and her wedding dress and moved into the Airstream. The timing was. Pretty inspired, it was about a year before the pandemic kicked off and once that happened, you literally could not buy an Airstream. It was everybody was, you know, RV life was all the rage and van life was everywhere. So we had pretty good timing in that respect.

Rick: 10:52

I would imagine so. My uncle has a vintage clothing store in San Francisco. my uncle? Nah, I'm just kidding. Yeah. Um, it's called, uh, S SF Mercantile. San Francisco Mercantile. It's down on, uh, yeah. yeah, They got a couple locations now, so they're doing great. I love San Francisco. I would go there every weekend if I could.

Jesse: 11:12

my wife may know your uncle. Yeah. That was a small community and they were all, it was really cool. It was a really cool, supportive community of vintage people in San Francisco and really inspiring. Honestly, you know, my wife was a founder and an entrepreneur before I could say that about myself. And so her experience starting that business and running that store really, gave me the encouragement to be able to strike out on my own and become a founder too.

Rick: 11:38

Ah, good for you, man. What a life, huh? So much fun. Entrepreneurship,

Jesse: 11:43

But, I will say, like, there are people who are lifers who do that. We did it for three and a half years. And that was, at least enough time, maybe a year too long. You know, being in Austin, Texas and, knowing that we are 5 minutes from a grocery store at any point and sleeping in the same place every night you don't take those things for granted after you're a full time nomad wouldn't trade it for anything. But also not taking the small things for granted of living in a traditional home.

Rick: 12:13

Oh, I can absolutely imagine. And, you know, speaking of which, your more traditional role when you were at AOL. I mean, AOL was infamous for basically creating the internet that we know today and going through all these different iterations. You know, what was the big thing that AOL was doing when you were there?

Jesse: 12:30

So when I was, I'm happy. I, you know, I wasn't there when AOL was in its, you know, acquiring Time Warner heyday, right? So I joined AOL in, uh, I want to say like 2007.

Kaleem: 12:43

So you didn't get a chance to meet Meg or Tom Hanks, basically, like he

Jesse: 12:46

no, no, they were not in the office, not in the office any longer. But, the bloom was definitely off the rows of the company at that time. What was going on when I was there. Was really the turnaround of AOL. So about a year after I got to AOL, a guy named Tim Armstrong, became our CEO. He had been the first sales employee at Google. And so he did okay. And he went on to lead their sales organization. He came on and really turned the company around. He acquired brands that I got to work on. Like we mentioned, TechCrunch and he also acquired the Huffington Post. And so we became sort of, a digital media holding company for a lot of brands outside of the AOL banner that people know. And, it was a real success story. They went on to be acquired by Verizon, which is how I worked at Verizon and Verizon media, in some, sort of expanding roles there. And then Verizon acquired Yahoo and merged the two. That was my cue to look for the exit and did my own thing from there. So, that turn around to answer your question, Rick, it was a real turnaround story and it was a great lesson in leadership and execution from first Tim, but also a lot of other really brilliant business people who've gone on to do some pretty incredible things that I got to work with there.

Kaleem: 14:05

Yeah, I find so fascinating about the AOL story is that journey that they've gone through. And you're right. I kind of forgot about that second version of AOL. And then as you were leaving, there was a third version. Yeah. So now. Was that the Marissa Mayer time when Yahoo acquired them or was Marissa was she hired it? Do you remember?

Jesse: 14:24

She was there. And Tim and Marissa were both. Ex Google.

Kaleem: 14:28

Okay,

Jesse: 14:29

And they were, you know, they were cool. Marissa was operating Yahoo up until the sale to Verizon. And so when they merged those two entities. Marissa took the money and ran, God bless her and, uh, and Tim, Tim stayed on to, to run the combined entity for a little while, but then moved on. Tim's founded a really fascinating company called flow code. If you guys see like TV ads that have QR codes on the TV or at the Superbowl, that's flow code. And they're doing really interesting things with consumer data and advertising data in the QR sort of the real world first person consumer space right now. So to Tim's not done to Tim, you know, you want to make a good investment, just buy into Tim Armstrong, and

Kaleem: 15:12

Tim Armstrong that you heard it here. You heard it here. So you, you migrate from AOL. You're part of that like media rebuild, right? Then you're part of the Verizon media rebuild as well. What was the thing or the spark or that moment that made you or led you to create in workforce now. So now you've tasted media. You've been a part of it. You've been running it. What made you think creating your own company? And can you tell our listeners what workforce vision is?

Jesse: 15:45

So it's funny. It happened very organically and happened through that process of professional growth and corporate growth and corporate mergers, honestly. So, Around the time that the Yahoo acquisition and the AOL merger was going down, I wasn't sure if I was going to have a job or if I was going to want the job that I had on the other side of that merger. And so I said to myself, Hey, I've had a good run here for a decade plus, I really enjoyed this. Maybe it's time for something else. And what I did was I didn't exercise that, um, I find really valuable to do every couple of years, but this was valuable for me at this time, which is to say, let's take job title company out of it. What are the five things that are most important to me that I want in any role that I have going forward? And it sounds funny to say, but. Only through doing that exercise. Did I realize that I was a remote worker? So I've been based in San Francisco the whole time, but the company was based in New York. I was, you know, sort of in the sales realm. So I was going to, conferences and client calls all the time. I was spending one week. Per month, at least in New York at the corporate headquarters, traveling around, I actually even had desks in two offices in San Francisco. I had a desk in the main office and Indy, in the tech crunch office. And so when I was in San Francisco, if I needed to be in an office. I could go to an office, and if I didn't need to be in the office, I could work from my home office, and nobody was going to say, where's Jesse? I put it succinctly, I was treated like an adult, but it wasn't in my job description that I was a remote worker. It just had organically developed that way. And so I realized, though, that I didn't want to give up that freedom and that respect and that choice of work style. And so armed with that sort of lens, is that being one of the most important things for me and whatever my next role was, I tried to go out and find, you know, jobs like that, or companies like that, or communities of people who are working like that. And this was in 2017, 2018, and there was nothing really. And I was really frustrated by that. And I was frustrated for about 30 seconds. And then I said, wait a minute, Jesse, you know, a thing or two about building digital media brands. If you wish that this thing existed, maybe other people would too. And that was the sort of seed that over time sprouted into workforce. So it, it very, you know, it, it wasn't necessarily inspired. It happened very organically. But once I sort of realized that about the way that I wanted to work, I was then able to, you know, check some numbers on that and see where this trend was going and seeing that remote work was going to really grow over a 10 year period. Obviously, I nor anybody else could have predicted what we saw happened with the pandemic and all that kind of thing. So there's always an element of luck, but that's historically.

Kaleem: 18:39

I mean, your timing, the self reflection prior to the pandemic. very interesting that I kind of put you in this position. So, you know, audience that self reflection is a tough. We've we had Jordan Carillon a long time ago. Rick. I think I remember hearing him talk about you got to do yourself checklist of what's important to you. And that's pretty cool that you that.

Jesse: 19:03

I think it's a useful exercise for anybody at any point in their career. We can get caught up in job titles and company names and all this kind of thing. And I think, honestly, that's something that becomes more important with flexibility and the ability to work remote or hybrid, or what do you say? Figuring out, you know, what is really important to me and how do I want to work and then getting to company names and job titles and those kinds of things. Those are second.

Rick: 19:27

Yeah. I can't agree more. I mean, I can't tell you how long I struggled with working a full time job, knowing that My mind was always somewhere else. It was like, if I wasn't creating, if I wasn't pursuing the passions that I knew kind of made me tick, voice acting, writing, video editing, video creating, whatever it was, even music for that matter every moment that I spent at a job that forced me to stay in office was a moment away from being who I really was or who I really am.

Jesse: 19:59

Yeah,

Rick: 20:00

That is absolutely soul crushing. Now it's like the more creative you are, doing things that you don't, that mean nothing to you, are incredibly demoralizing.

Kaleem: 20:12

Yeah becomes a lot more difficult

Rick: 20:14

yeah. And that's the struggle I think a lot of people are dealing with, so Workforce, it, you guys publish, You know, articles from some of the top remote work experts, right? What have been some of the most popular topics that are being covered and, you know, that people are looking for?

20:33

We'll be right back after these words. 2020 was no joke. It changed the game for everyone. Workplace flexibility is no longer a perk, but an expectation. In fact, a recent study showed that a flexible schedule is more important than salary. Yeah, you heard that right? Employees want choices over cash. If you're a startup or a small business that doesn't have a remote work strategy, stop what you're doing right now and complete our free tree assessment at blendmeinc. com. Since 2013, blendmeinc. com has been helping small businesses improve the remote employee experience. Let's stay local, but compete global. Visit us at blendmeinc. com. That's blendmeinc. com. Ever wonder how certain ads catch your attention or get stuck in your head? It's because the person voicing it knows how to tell the story. Maybe they're telling you to STUMBLE OVER TO SULLIVAN ST. PATRICK'S DAY FOR GREEN BEERS, IRISH CAR BOMBS, AND CON BEEF ALL FREAKIN DAY! Don't miss the deal of a lifetime this President's Day at Callahan Ford. Savings like these should be unconstitutional. Or maybe Or, here at Brooks Brothers Mortuary, we put the fun in funeral. Everyone is just dying to join us. All right, well that's a bit much, but for you, I'll do it. I'm Rick Haney, and if you're a business owner looking for a creative voice in your marketing, look no further. I'll tell your story the way you want it told. Follow along at RemotelyWeAreOne or visit my website at rickhaney. me for more information. And now, back to the show.

Jesse: 22:41

yeah, it's interesting. I'll answer the question 2 ways. Right? So the 1st thing is to say that some of our most popular articles are the articles that I never would have. Guests would be popular.

Kaleem: 22:51

Really?

Jesse: 22:52

sure. Well, not necessarily never guessed that they would have been popular. I wouldn't have guessed that they would be our most popular articles. For example, 1 of our most popular articles has always been, about remote jobs in the ed tech space. And

Kaleem: 23:05

Just specifically

Jesse: 23:06

ed tech. Yeah. Um, well, I think, there's a couple of things going on here. One is tactical clean. You and I have geeked out on the side talking about SEO and, our wonderful friends, Google and all of the interesting things that go into that soup. Right? And so part of it is tactical. Part of it is learning as an operator of a media company that the more. Precise you can get and specific you can get in terms of the topics and keywords that you're trying to own, the better you're going to do. Right? And so the simple reality is that very few people were publishing content about EdTech number 1 and about remote work and EdTech number 2. And so we were able to dominate that space with that 1 article. The broader answer Rick is, you know, the long form version of how we talk about workforce is that workforce creates content for people who work remotely or want to work remotely and the businesses that employ them and we very intentionally. And this especially was true during the early days of the pandemic. There was a ton of content created. Everybody was talking about it. The New York Times, the Washington Post, Harvard Business Review. My observation was and is that most of that content is talking about remote work and about remote workers. And so we very intentionally speak to remote workers and 2 people who are trying to work remotely. And so our content is tailored to those individuals and to those companies. And so the content that does the best. The content that people engage with the most is very practical. How do you find a remote job in the ed tech space for 1 example, but also how do you how do you craft? A remote onboarding process, very specific stuff that, you know, these larger publications that are talking about the remote work shift writ large, or the economic impact of that really aren't covering. And so what we try to do is to get very practical, very tactical and give. Individuals tips on how to find jobs or work more effectively remotely, but then especially business leaders and managers how to lead their teams effectively in this new paradigm, I think, you know, and I'm sure we'll get into it in future questions. But like, what we're seeing now is this, you know, the return to office push and leaders trying to do away with the carrot and break out the stick and trying to get people back into work. I really see it as a failure of management, of leadership, of not really learning how to work effectively remotely, how to lead effectively remotely. And so we're trying to constantly push out content that speaks to that and helps people self educate in this new space.

Rick: 25:41

hmm. That is so spot on. You know, as I mentioned before, we talk about creating content and I feel like lately the content that I have been producing is, has been specifically targeting, you know, as you mentioned in your LinkedIn bio, the tyranny of location, right? Uh,

Jesse: 26:03

It's a deep cut, Rick. I like that that resonated. Thank you. I'm glad.

Rick: 26:06

Oh my God, the whole, I'm telling you, Jesse, the whole thing, every word of that resonates with me. You know, the designing our careers around our lives and not vice versa. I mean, this is the stuff that I want to produce because it resonates with me. It's been bogging me down for so long that I just feel like, especially since the pandemic. This is how everybody feels. Everybody is stuck. Everybody is like just so desperate to break these chains and I just I love your content I'm so happy that I stumbled upon your profile because I feel like our visions are synonymous with one another so

Jesse: 26:47

Right.

Kaleem: 26:48

I got a question, Jesse, as far as, um, you know, you got a chance to become a digital nomad. What was your experience like trend transitioning to being fully? Fully mobile, should we say, trying to deal with internet, trying to run a media company. What were some of the surprise uh ohs that you weren't prepared for?

Jesse: 27:08

You said the main thing, internet connectivity, right? back then we were, you know, this is in 2019 when we moved in the Airstream, we were fully based on cell signal. And so there were a lot of times where we'd be in the middle of nowhere and have four bars. And, you know, for me, I was like, if I could get, like, 25 megabytes down and up, like, that was it was party time. If that was what was going on. And I knew that I could have a zoom call if I could get, like, 6 up or down. and so just really the connectivity, I think was often the biggest challenge for us. And sometimes you would go to places, for example we decided to spend a month in San Diego. During the pandemic, for obvious reasons, if anybody's ever been to San Diego, not such a bad place. And so we booked a month at a pretty posh, RV park on the bay in San Diego. We were less than a mile from I5 and, we had unusable cell signal on AT& T, and so, like, you know, we had money, you know, like, it's like paying rent, you know what I mean? Like, we planned to be there. We had, you know, money and time invested in being in the space, and, you know, you, you solve the problem. Like, we figured it out, we got a different SIM card. But, that was a real challenge, connectivity, in going around. I think that, you know, my wife was consulting at the time too. Now she's working a full time remote gig. But that was also early days of workforce. And so I was on fire. You know what I mean? Like I was working, you know, 26 hours a day, eating, sleeping, brushing my teeth with the passion of being an early days founder. And so the motivation piece wasn't hard, right? Like it was easy to find time to do that work. It was really more, you know, the tools of the trade and very specifically internet connectivity.

Kaleem: 28:52

Hmm.

Rick: 28:52

Oh,

Kaleem: 28:53

Yeah. I can imagine that I would enjoy the mobility until, uh, I couldn't connect and then I'd be losing my mind. How do I

Rick: 29:03

yeah,

Kaleem: 29:04

I connect?

Rick: 29:05

you got to plug into the matrix.

Kaleem: 29:07

right, right. I need the matrix. I need to get in Neo. Where are you? Um, So as far as content goes, you obviously have your pulse on this industry, right? You have your pulse on it. Cause I mean, the website's great. I love seeing all the articles come from it. I love it. So keep doing your thing. When speaking to businesses, you talk about speaking to businesses, speaking, maybe to managers. What's the next thing of content that you feel Organizations and managers need to hear or need to prepare for, you know, like what are some good things?

Jesse: 29:45

Well, I, so I think, first of all, that's been the evolution, or that's been the moving target. And so, in the early days of, you know, pre pandemic, you had a very small group of companies and individuals who were leading remotely, right? And you could talk to them, you could learn from them, they could learn from each other. When things blew up and we went, you know, overnight from 6 million people in 2019 to 60 million people in 2020 working remotely, it was a totally different paradigm and people were really trying to play catch up and it was really survival mode. And what I think the space that we're in now. Is that pendulum is swinging back towards the office. And so, you know, leaders are trying to beg, borrow and steal and get people to come back to the office where they feel like they have more knowledge and more control over their employees. I think that, 1st of all, I think that the genies out of the bottle, the cats out of the bag, whatever analogy you want to use. People have got a sense of the freedom and benefits that come from remote work and smart companies see the benefits themselves. Right? Like, you think about Nvidia, Nvidia is the fastest growing by a mile, company in terms of market cap in the s and p 500. In 2023. They four Xed their stock price and market cap, they're fully remote. They went fully remote reactively during the pandemic and they saw all the benefits of doing that, and they chose to proactively engage with it and embrace it. And evolve in that direction. I think some of the companies that you read about that are really struggling with the shift to remote or trying to get back to office, you read about Google, you read about Microsoft forcing people back to the office. On the one hand, these are all companies, you know, Microsoft is older than me. And, you know, Facebook is 20 plus years old. I think at this point, right. Or there about. And so those companies were conceived of and built in a different time. And so, of course they're gonna swing back. When I think Kaleem, I I always think about this and I shouldn't probably quote it, but,'cause think it's attributed to bill Gates, I think it's actually him who said it. He said that people always overestimate the amount of change that happens in a year and underestimate the amount of change that happens a decade. And I think that the companies that are being founded today. Are by and large going to be natively remote, going to be natively hybrid. And in the next decade, we're going to start to see most of these, the valuable companies, the companies that are coming out in the AI space, the web free space, they're all going to be natively remote. And so in 10 years, you know, remote is going to be the norm. We're going to get past this return to office. Stuff for the industries where it makes sense. Like, I think that the office is always going to have a place. I love to work from an office when I get the opportunity to do so. You know what I mean? Like, it's great. I don't have to step away and do the laundry, but so long way of getting around back to your question to me, it starts with listening to your employees and what do your employees want and then creating policies, sensible policies that incentivize employees to stay with your company and to be remote. And the fact is for the most of the leaders and managers who are operating today, they grew up in a different time and they're going back to what is comfortable. And so really, I think that in terms of actual skills. They need number one, the willingness to embrace this change, number two, some skills to make that change work for their business. Right. Some common sense, simple stuff to really be able to embrace whatever it is, remote hybrid. I have my own baggage around the term hybrid, but you know, flexible work, right. And it's, it's really a simple set of skills and how can these. Leaders who are in place begin to adopt policies and processes and procedures that enable people to work effectively remotely. I think long term talent always wins and the majority of the top talent over time is going to demand to work flexibly and so if companies want to succeed they're going to have to embrace flexibility because if they want to attract top talent and win over time, that's just going to be the price you have to pay.

Kaleem: 33:56

makes sense.

Rick: 33:58

Well, let let's flip the script around a little bit to the employee viewpoint. Okay. What advice would you give to somebody who is feeling kind of stuck in life? They go to an office every day. As I mentioned before, their mind is in their heart and their soul is somewhere else. But they just don't know how to get started. They don't know what skills they're gonna need. They know where their passions are, but they're so overwhelmed they don't know where to start. What would you recommend for someone like that? To get into the remote, the remote industry?

Jesse: 34:27

Well, I would say in the first place and Rick, I'm kind of going back to your story. Like the thing that I didn't realize that I realized probably too late in life. I wish I would have known this in college is that, everything that you see. And you engage with in the world, whether it's a podcast or a video game or an iPad all of those things are a business and an industry, you know what I mean? Like people love to play video games. It's a pretty, pretty damn big industry. You know what I mean? Like you'd look at the blizzard Activision stuff, like. There's lots of jobs to be had in that industry. And so if it is, if somebody who does feel stuck, you can look at the things that you're passionate about. Like you said, you know, podcasting, if you're passionate about podcasting, there's lots of skills that you can acquire to, to break into that space. The second thing is I think. This is something personal, it's helpful and important for me to take a long view and to say, where do I want to be in 10 years versus saying, what do I want my next job to be? I think if you embrace that long view about where I want to be, what I want my life and my career to look like in 10 years, it makes it easier to make a short term sacrifice and to say, I'm going to stay in this job I don't love, but you know what, I'm going to take an audio editing class. In the night, right? To learn how to, you know, skill up to be in the podcasting space. It really is about acquiring skills. And so, if you can take that long view and, map your skill acquisition to the job you want to have, you can really do some pretty incredible things with your career. In the long and short term, and that's regardless of the remoteness or not of your job. Right? I think that, you know, that's just sort of like, maybe not what you're looking for with the advice. But I think that, you know, people who feel stuck. I think a lot of people who whose companies are requiring them to work 5 days in an office probably feel stuck. And so if that's if you want to get out of that, Yeah. the immediate thing might not be to look for a similar job title at a similar company with a remote job. You might do better if you take a long view and think about what you want your life and your career to look like in 10 years and then work backwards from that.

Kaleem: 36:31

yeah,

Rick: 36:31

an answer. Oh my gosh. Talk about insightful. I hope everybody heard that.

Kaleem: 36:36

that makes a lot of sense. I never really thought of the idea of, not just automatically applying to a job with your title because what if that job is not the thing that you want to be doing? And then, of course, it's the famous. Thought think about the long term goal like that works for everything. We're always focused about how much you know i'm trying to drop some weight or how much did I weigh this week? Well, how about at the end of the year? Or you know, I want another job well think about your career, you know, like staying in your part time or in your job, that you're not liking and working on editing on the side That might be a better career move, you know, because you're acquiring new skills. So yeah, acquiring new skills is a great way to put it, man. Thank you.

Rick: 37:25

Yeah. Yeah.

Jesse: 37:26

stuff is out there. And, you know, speaking of remote tools and, there's never been more, even just like, free videos on YouTube or classes that you can take remotely to skill up and in any of these areas, whether it's, finance or, video editing, all this stuff is like so widely available just in terms of self education. You, you know, people I think would be shocked, but maybe not because, you know, everybody's gone to YouTube to learn how to replace a light switch. You can do that with your career, too, you know what I mean? Like,

Kaleem: 37:56

Or how to be a brain surgeon. I

Jesse: 37:58

Yeah, well, yeah, there are some clean. You're right. There are perhaps a few notable exceptions. But, you know, I think there's a lot that people can learn and self educate and then take, you know, virtual digital courses in these other areas and really split yourself up. Certifications are a big deal, too. So, being able to, you know, if it's not in your current job remit, you can get certifications in the areas for the jobs you want to have, not the job you have.

Rick: 38:24

Fantastic. Wow. So. Jesse, my friend. do us do us a favor, would you? Tell us about a comical or an inspiring moment you have had while working remotely.

Kaleem: 38:37

Please do, sir.

Jesse: 38:40

well, the inspiring thing we sort of already talked about, which is, I was able to, you know, found and launch my company, while working remotely using SIM card, cell signal, across the United States. And the specific moment that I came to when you guys asked that question, is that the day we actually launched workforce the day we put the website live and we got featured in a TechCrunch article. I was in a national park. I was literally in a national park. We had a bunch of, you know, obviously stressful moments and is the site functioning and all this kind of thing. And there were a few interviews. He was around. And so we were in it. We're international park. And, when the work day was done, my wife and I took the Chihuahua on a hike. And so that's. Totally possible. Like we did this, you know, using a SIM card and cell signal. And it's pretty, pretty robust, you know, media site. Like, we've got all the things that can go right and wrong with that. So, that's the thing that inspires me in terms of kind of anything is possible. I think the funny thing, the ironic thing, is Colleen, you know, you're asking me about connectivity and that was by far our biggest frustration. Number one challenge is there were several times we would get to a place that was beautiful and we realized we had no cell signal and we couldn't stay there and we had to go, you know, find some other place. About three months after we sold the Airstream and moved into our, new condo in Austin, Starlink announced Starlink for RVs and, uh, literally three months after, uh, And yeah, so, um, that was,

Kaleem: 40:18

you saw, you sold the stream. You sold the wind stream. Oh

Jesse: 40:24

It had, it has a wonderful new home. And they probably have Starlink, but you know, just like the accumulated. Anxiety and stress and frustration about, you know, uh, do we need to go get a Verizon SIM card? Can we use the AT& T? Do we have to break out the T Mobile? But the T Mobile, we only have a certain amount of minutes and, you know, gigs on it. I can't tell you the amount of, spiritual and intellectual time that was wasted on this topic. And, you know, three months later. Starling for RVs, uh, you know, comes out on the site. Anybody can get it. And now, so now that's the thing. So the good news is that anybody who wants to truly do the digital nomad thing in an RV, they don't have to experience any of the frustration, uh, that I experienced, when I was doing that. So, good news for them. Bad news for me. Now I can laugh about that, but I was not laughing when I got that email.

Kaleem: 41:18

That's hilarious.

Rick: 41:19

not. Isn't it funny how things happen? Sometimes it's not funny. Not funny at all.

Kaleem: 41:26

Damn you, Elon!

Jesse: 41:28

yeah

Kaleem: 41:29

you always messing with my emotions, Elon? Why?

Rick: 41:35

get you for this, Elon. No,

Jesse: 41:41

side of a super villain

Kaleem: 41:42

The internet's out. The internet's out.

Rick: 41:47

Jesse, where can our listeners and viewers find you?

Jesse: 41:50

Uh, you guys can find me easily on linkedin jesse chambers. I also Do try to respond to comments and questions on linkedin. So that's the best place they can also go to workforce. Crucially, workforce, we spell workforce with no O's, uh, because offices are optional, get

Kaleem: 42:07

Oh,

Jesse: 42:08

Uh, so

Kaleem: 42:09

come on. I never got this. I never got this. I never got this.

Jesse: 42:14

it's the start, it's the start to be, you know, no or few vowels, spelling, but it's workforce. com. Workforce is spelled with no O's.

Kaleem: 42:22

awesome, bro. How did I not know that? Well, thanks man. Really appreciate you. It's always great to talk to you, man Congratulations on the success and you know, we'll check in back with you another time Welcome anytime, bro. Thank you

Rick: 42:35

to send you an invite to connect on LinkedIn right now because,

Kaleem: 42:38

Yes, he is

Rick: 42:40

to you. I have so many more questions. So if I pepper you now and again on LinkedIn, don't be surprised.

Jesse: 42:47

I would be disappointed if you didn't, Rick. It's been a lot of fun to talk with you guys. This has been one of the most fun podcasts I've done. But it's also, you know, it's a real honor to be here. The list of past guests is really inspiring. And so thank you guys very much for the opportunity. It's been a lot of fun. I hope we can do it again sometime.

Rick: 43:08

Thanks, Jesse.

Kaleem: 43:09

later. Peace.