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Introductions

[00:00:47] Derek Lundsten: So welcome to Rebels With A Heart. I'm thrilled for this episode. We have an amazing group of leaders and guests with us today. We're going to get going just a moment introductions, but again, the topic of the day is talent, hidden talent, tapping into talent, unlocking people, [00:01:00] unlocking potential, and bringing our whole selves to the workplace in terms of our skills and opportunities for growth.

So with that, why don't we kick it off with, with you, Marisa, why don't you tell us about who you are, your journey to this episode, and anything else that feels relevant to the audience? Right 

[00:01:14] Marissa Andrada: on. Well, happy Wednesday, everyone. I'm super honored to be here and sitting with this esteemed panel. Um, I like to call myself a culture master and kindness catalyst only after a deep career in people and human resources.

Currently, I, um, help companies to really drive growth through building inclusive and diverse cultures. And growth, meaning unlocking profitability or unlocking, um, top line growth, really through unlocking people. And I've had the chance to do that as a Chief People Officer, Chief Culture Officer at a lot of consumer facing companies, including Chipotle, Kate's Bay, Starbucks, GameStop, and Red Bull.

But [00:02:00] currently, and currently, I'm serving as a board member, specifically focusing on Focusing on people and culture strategy with Krispy Kreme. I mean, who doesn't want to sit on the board where the mission's all about unlocking love and joy through the joy that is donuts. So, um, anyway, I'm super excited to be here.

I would say one thing for me, which is why I'm excited to be here is that, um, to me, culture is personal. You know, I've always worn my heart on my sleeve literally and figuratively. And I know I'm doing that today, but I think that's feedback. I've always gotten both positive and constructive in my career.

And I think when you can tap into that personal side of people, there's so much goodness to unlock there and greatness to unlock for a company. So good to see everybody. 

[00:02:48] Derek Lundsten: Awesome. Thanks for being here, Marisa. So we'll come to you now, Brady. 

[00:02:51] Brady Young: Great. Thanks again, Derek, for having me. This is awesome. My name is Brady Young.

I've been in human resources for 20 years prior to [00:03:00] that. Did some sales, did some operational stuff. So I've seen lots of different parts of business. I've had the, I've been blessed, honestly, to work inside of organizations, helping me. Businesses get better through their people, publicly traded companies, privately held companies, startups, non for profits, all sorts of industries.

So wide array of experiences. Um, after this, we're going to trade stories, the three of us, I think, for sure, that's going to be a lot of fun. Um, today I'm the founder of Thrive Coaching and Consulting, and it's exciting to be able to help more than one company at a time, exceed their goals through their people.

Um, and get people to, um, reach their potential. I, you know, everyone, probably everyone on who's watching everyone on the panel thinks that people are the key, the most valuable asset to a company. Agreed, agreed. Um, I'm going to take it a step further. I think when people reach their potential, not only is it the best for them as humans, um, but also that's the key [00:04:00] to businesses really being successful.

And it sounds. Very big and audacious. I don't think it's that hard. I've proven that it's not hard to do, and that's what I do at Thrive is continue to prove that, get people to their, um, their best, their potential, and then the businesses to their potential. So again, great to be here. I can't wait to talk with you guys.

[00:04:21] Derek Lundsten: Likewise, glad you're here, Brady. And coming over to you, Doritha. 

[00:04:25] Doretha Bailey: Welcome. Hi, everyone. I hope all is well and you're having a great Wednesday. So, my name is Doritha Bailey. I am the vice president of Turfmaster Brands, and I am excited to be here. I consider myself a pivoter as well as a fixer. So, when I started my, um, Thanks My journey in HR, um, it was not the conventional way.

I started off as in military veteran, um, you know, in the field of chemical ordinance. And 1 day I became pregnant with [00:05:00] my oldest son and wasn't able to actually be around chemicals. So they put me in the orderly room. Think about the orderly room, like the local HR department. Um, so that's how I started.

And then when I got out of the military. I was trying to figure out what I wanted to do and I was like, what was that? Um, and so when I had the conversation, um, that's when I got introduced to the field of HR. Trying to really figure out how I was going to really grow in that field. I started off working at temp agencies and one of my first assignments was Tower's Parent.

Um, so, you know, as you start, one of the things they do is they get you, you know, educated on the fundamentals of benefits. Um, so I literally started from the ground up to grow where I'm at now for the last 10 years, um, I have been. Um, leading HR organizations and multiple companies from large to small, um, as well as mentoring military veterans, um, helping people connect.

So I'm a big [00:06:00] connector. I'm a big people champion. Um, 1 of the things that I will say is, um. My biggest pet peeve, to be honest, is just thinking that people are one dimensional, right? And so, and people are not, and, you know, people are not the titles in which they actually are in. Um, and so to actually see people have conversations, um, I do ride alongs.

I actually, you know, my current job will spray the lawn with the lawn technicians, but really having a conversation with them and get people to where they want to be. I have, you know, success records and getting people to the next level and actually living out their dreams. One of my favorite ones is literally having someone who was in a housekeeper role, who, you know, was able to move to a media director role.

So, being able to help people tap into their, you know, potential makes my day, um, and, you know, getting people to just be happy, whatever that looks like in helping companies with, um, [00:07:00] healthy cultures is really important as well, too. So, thank you for having me. I'm excited for this conversation. 

[00:07:06] Derek Lundsten: Excited that you're all here.

Thanks for being here. So again, Derek Lundsten, I'm the host of Rebels With A Heart. It's a great privilege. I get to do that. I'm also the president of LifeGuides, which is a platform for helping people unlock their potential in all aspects of life through the sharing of mentorship, wisdom, connection, resources, empathy.

So with that, we're going to jump into our conversation. 

Being a Rebel: cultivated or innate?

[00:07:24] Derek Lundsten: So one thing I heard in each of your introductions was this commitment to your own Learning your own growth, your own potential that each of you has kind of navigated in different ways to get to this point, but it was something that was very clear that that's a core value of who you are.

Was that always the case or did you cultivate that over time or with intention with practice? And the reason why I asked that question is as we think about unlocking talent in organizations, how do we start translating that into other people that either they're finding that or we're creating that, because I believe that that's part of this.[00:08:00]

Opportunity around talent development, and we're going to get more into that. But that's my first question. Was that something that you cultivated or was it always kind of innately who you were and you just knew it? 

[00:08:10] Marissa Andrada: I mean, I'll jump in. I think it's probably both. I'm old school and that one of my first jobs out of MBA was, um.

As an HR supervisor in a Fortune 25 company. I'll say that. And this company was known for having a certain profile to be successful. And, uh, you walk a certain way, talk a certain way, dress a certain way. And I thought, yikes, if this is what it means to me in corporate America, I don't want to work here, right?

However, if you want to be a chief HR officer someday, which is what I thought I wanted to be, then this is one of two top companies to learn from. And while I had to play the game, to be candid, I also knew that it wasn't me. And so I think in my early 20s and throughout my 20s, I took my career so seriously that [00:09:00] I'm like, I got to snap to this culture.

But what I realized was, when you're clear on who you are and what you stand for, and I have so many stories, even in that company, where they're like, hey, congratulations, you're a high potential minority. Let's take you to this class where you can learn how to assimilate and be successful in this company.

I mean, I mean this, it's, it's a whole story, but I think once you realize, Hey, look, this is who I am and what I'm about. And once, um, you can stand on your own values, I think the more successful I know for me, I have become in my own learning and my own career because it's not about trying to be somebody else.

And quite frankly, I mean, that's why I love culture so much. That I'm like, I never want to work for a large company again. Although my family and friends make fun of me. They're like, what do you mean? You've only worked in large companies. And that's why I'm so passionate about culture. But it goes back to, you know, if I were to give a gift to, especially those who are starting in their career or making that career pathway, [00:10:00] as Dorit has shared, it's like, don't lose yourself, right?

Be clear about who you are and what you stand for. Because I think that helps drive success. Over time, um, it's really important to do that. You know, I, I think once you come clear with that, you know, you can lock anything. 

[00:10:19] Derek Lundsten: Well said.

There's another quarter here, by the way. Jump in. 

[00:10:26] Brady Young: You know, we're HR people. We want to follow the rules, right? So I guess I'm next. Um, so yeah, just like you, like, I've always had my core principles down. Um, I had no idea who I wanted to be when I grew up professionally early on. I'll be really honest with that.

That's, I alluded to that before about bouncing between like sales and operations. I think I mentioned that. Um, and eventually HR, but who I was, how I carry myself, um, valuing other humans. I think that's always been there, um, for me and [00:11:00] the reaching potential piece, like kind of getting there. Uh, I had to, I had to get some help on the way.

I had some people believed in me along the way, and that's a whole story in itself about how I moved around in my career, and the majority of those positions were through, like, two people, like, just, you know, just being the best person that That you can be. People want to help you and then other people see how great you are and have faith in you and pour into you and then that's when you start reaching your potential.

I don't think I've reached mine yet, but boy, I took the big jumps. Uh, and leaps in kind of what I could do over my career because people, individuals, um, not companies, individuals poured into me, bosses, coaches, um, mentors, um, who weren't my supervisors, right, poured into me. And that's, I think that's the key.

And that's, uh, probably I'm going to keep coming back. I'll probably be a broken record all day with that, but that's the key, that one on one filling you is the key to, to reaching that. [00:12:00]

[00:12:01] Doretha Bailey: I think mine's both, um, you know, when I really think about it, and I'm just thinking about just my own bio, um, and looking how far I've come, um.

Growing up when I was in elementary school, I was a part of the special education program. And I remember my mom telling me 1 day, my brother's 4 years younger than me. And she said, she realized that I was reading the same book material that he was reading. So, um, she was a real big advocate with making sure, no, there's nothing wrong with her.

You know, she needs to get out of this program. And so, um, a lot of that foundation really comes from both of my parents who are, you know, um, high achievers, but they believed in us. They told us we can do anything that we wanted to do. And so they instilled that in us. Um, and so on those days that I really doubt.

For You know, should I be here? Can I do it? Um, are the times that [00:13:00] I actually go back to that foundation. Um, but I also do that when I'm pouring into people. We've always helped people since. I mean, that was always my, um, my upbringing. We took care of those around us. Um, and if we're able to help, then we're able to help.

If we're not, then we're able to point them in a direction. Of, you know, getting the, the help and, you know, being an observer of people, majority of time, I'm really quiet. And so what I realized is that, you know, I'm in certain rooms and I need to open up and I need to speak for the voiceless that needs to get there for that employee that I'm having a conversation with that no one sees.

And so, you know, the biggest thing for me, honestly, has been confidence. You know, do I have the confidence to do it being able to recognize that having conversations with people and a lot of things that happens is, you know, when we're talking about cultivating people to unlock their potential is, you know, a lot of it is fear.

And something that was told to [00:14:00] them as a child, um, something that's happened into, you know, their experience, you know, there is such thing as, you know, work trauma, you know, that's tied to things that really cripples people from moving in certain directions or the things they don't like. Even just moving in corporate, there was some fear that I got from my mother when I entered the industry, you know, that she really wanted me to go into the federal government.

But this was my path, you know, so what did that mean? But based off of her negative experience, that's what she shared. Um, and so being able to really help people get there, um, is breaking those stereotypes, breaking those archetypes, breaking those fears that are really crippling us. Um, and so it goes back to that psychological safety.

Do I feel safe in this place to be myself? Right? Do I need to assimilate or do I not? I don't assimilate very well. So, my [00:15:00] natural rebellious side comes out and I never forget my first, um, job. We'll call it civilian job is what we call it. But, um, I was working for a Fortune 500 company and they took me all out to lunch.

And I wasn't paying attention to what everybody was ordering, but by the time I was done, um, and they were introducing me and welcoming to the team, everybody ordered a salad, but me, I ordered a burger. I was hungry as lunchtime. So, you know, is that I've been called the pink elephant in the room, you know, um, but I've had some really great leaders, um, from CEOs who've seen me and I had 1 in particular, um, at another company.

That told me, um, there was something that was, you know, about that was and I knew the answer because I will go around and I have conversations with other people and he asked me right then. He's like, do you know the answer? And I was like, yes, and I poured out the answer and he wasn't tied just to HR. It was tied to, um, operations.

And he told me right there on the [00:16:00] spot not to be silent. Um, so I tried to sit there and instill that with people that I'm having a conversation, you know, with, but the most important thing is to meet people where they're at. Um, now I've had some bumps and bruises as you see the great potential on someone, but they're just not there and you're like, I see it in you.

You can do it. Um, but sometimes you can push too hard. Um, and so I think that's 1 of the things as we take back as, you know, as we're talking about people champions is to be realistic in that journey. And it's a humbling 1, you know, we have peaks and valleys in our lives and it's, um. How do we get up? How do we humanize ourselves?

Right? We don't have all the answers. Um, but how do we get the answers? And how do we help, you know, the next leaders be who they are? 

[00:16:47] Derek Lundsten: Thank you, Doretha. So I have so many ways we could take this conversation. 

How have you handled recent massive shifts?

[00:16:51] Derek Lundsten: So some ways I'm going to defer to the group wisdom here by this answer, but I guess my question would be.

Over the last few years, how is your view around kind [00:17:00] of uniquely being yourself in the balance of what does it, what does an organization need? Because to your, I think back to that comment, yes, there were kind of lines and lanes that we were in to fulfill certain career pathways and goals. And over the last couple of years, there's been a massive shift towards Personalization, Individualization, Individualization, Authenticity, Sovereignty, Unique Contributions.

And so how have you started to integrate those types of philosophies in your own leadership and the organizations that you've been leading or serving? And I think it's worth even noting that even, you know, two out of three of you are in significant career transitions even right now, leaving corporate and going...

into your own advisory roles. And Dorothea, I know you've mentioned already the great pivot that you've done numerous times in and out of different roles. I think that each of you has a really unique perspective on this. So I'd love for you to kind of riff on that a little bit and we'll see where this, where this goes.

Sounds good? Sounds 

[00:17:57] Marissa Andrada: great. I mean, I'll jump in. [00:18:00] I think, um, I say this all the time that 1 of the silver linings coming out of this pandemic, which is now endemic is that business now more than ever is personal. Right? I think companies are realizing at the center of everything we do, if they already didn't In that moment, you know, during those few years where all, everyone here on this call, I see all of you too, who are on the chat, we didn't have a playbook.

We were trying to figure the heck out what we're going to do to make sure that our employees are not only physically safe, but they're psychologically safe. Right. And whatever it is that they're dealing with. And so I think the good news coming out of that is now business now more than ever is personal.

And so, um, and in the year of this year, which is. The year of efficiency as dubbed by a well known CEO. I think at the end of the day of the companies that I speak with, while people are still trying to become efficient, you know, and then [00:19:00] that goes with, do we go back to the office one to five days a week?

At the end of the day, it's really about what kind of culture do we want to create and how do we want to unlock the full potential of people so that they want to stay with this company? And I think there's a, there's a talent challenge. I think we all know that. And, um, especially with this next generation that is coming into the workforce now, more than ever, it is about tying personal purpose.

It's about tying their own development and what they're learning, which is highly personal to whatever work it is that they're, they're being asked to do. And so, um, I've seen that completely evolve. It's been. Now, the role of a human capital leader is important for all of us helping to humanize, you know, and help leaders, CEOs, understand how to navigate that.

And so, um, I have found that during COVID. It's unfortunate, I feel like a lot of the team that I [00:20:00] support, and I think of my own human resources, people experience team, I felt like in many ways, they were the de facto managers, because now we're realizing, wow, leaders, we all know this, are promoted because they're excellent technicians in terms of what they know.

And then it's been true test of leadership to like, how do you really lead and manage people? And so, uh, high level, I think it's gotten more personal. And I think for me too, we were saying this as we were in our green room, you know, before we, we got in here, I feel like. Now more than ever, at least for me, a personal and professional philosophy is that it's okay to get personal and actually to talk about things that in business, you know, I grew up again, old school into new school where you don't talk about these things.

You know, you don't talk about, um, deaths in the family. You don't talk about life changes. But I think when you allow people to bring their full selves, they can [00:21:00] actually, literally, unlock their thinking and be in a space where they can bring it all. So I've always believed that. You know, and I think of the word inclusion and the words diversity as well.

It's really about as leaders. What I dream of is that leaders can create environments where, and I'll use the word you use, Doritha, which is confidence. How do you inspire confidence in your people? So that they can bring it all, all the good ideas, all the bad ideas, everything, because I think companies lose out on that when they don't create that space or that environment where people truly feel like they can thrive and be psychologically safe.

And so, um, that's been a core philosophy. And I think for me. As I've, you know, been through a big career transition in this last year, and much like Brady, you know, instead of helping one company, can I help many, you know, and can I help, can I help employees, [00:22:00] you know, for me, I always talk about this passion of mine around supporting growing people is personal, you know, I think for me.

I'm always proud to say I'm first generation American. I guess I'm not surprised that I look back in my career and I've worked at organizations where we've supported hundreds of thousands of hourly workers and to create a pathway to opportunity where they themselves can move into that middle class. I think that's a dream to help this emerging middle class truly emerge.

And how can they do that through growth and development of their companies? So I look at like. My parents met here. They got married here. They had no family here, but one by one, my mom sponsored each one of her sisters who left their families in the Philippines to come over. And while they were professionals, um, kind of like to your point, Doretha, about being one dimensional, the only companies that would hire them were like minimum wage, retail and fast food, and they [00:23:00] themselves had to find their way and make their way in this land of opportunity.

And so, um. That's why I bring my full self into it's personal. And so, um, I feel like I've gone all over the place, but I think it's clear, like, A, with the pandemic, I think it's given license for people to go, Hey, humans are at the middle of everything. And then B, if you don't get your arms around that, you know, you're going to lose out on great talent for your companies.

[00:23:28] Doretha Bailey: I 100 percent agree, you know, um,

Personalization over standardization

[00:23:30] Doretha Bailey: just to piggyback on, you know, what you're stating is just, it's personalization over standardization. What does that look like? It's not just lip service section action, right? What are the actionable things that you were doing to do that? Is it written in your policies?

Are you, you know, is it in the things that you're doing as you're talking about, you know, development? What is that, right? Because it's not one path that says, okay, this is what you need to do to be successful, to get to this role, to this role, to the next role, you know, and [00:24:00] really meeting people where they're at.

And, you know, one of the things that, um, I'm having a really active conversation right now in frustration is, you know, let's talk about the military veterans. You know, a lot of people are thinking of them from a, you know, and I'm not saying In totality, but there's a large perception that they only are wanted from the neck down and not the head up.

Right. And so it's one of those things of, Hey, we, we could put you in labor jobs. You know, we really care about veterans. Um, same thing with anything that we're talking about. If we're talking about technicians or whatever that may be, um, or what level, um, that you're in the organization. And it's 1 of those things of, we need to make sure that we're really clear with the message that we put out there.

You know, when you think about where the executive assistant turns into the CEO, well, why? Because that's exposure and that's experience. Right? And so how do you sit there and empower your people? You give them experience and [00:25:00] you give them exposure. I remember when. I was an HR manager, and my leader actually got me exposure into a board meeting.

Then I became a part of a committee and then be able to move forward. That's how I got introduced to boards, you know, and so it's 1 of those things of how can you move forward? You know, are the people in your organization or whoever you're coaching or whatever you're doing. Are they a part, are you giving them experiences and exposures that they would not have had, you know, to be able to sit there and open their worlds?

Because when you do that, the world of possibilities all there, you know, and you're able to sit there and really go to the next level. So that personalization is reaching people exactly where they're at. And getting them to the next level and telling them that this and you're showing them not more than telling them that this is a possibility that they're able to move from point A to point B and know 1 path is the same.

Right? And it's okay [00:26:00] to get there. You know, um, so whatever resources that we're able to provide and the things that we're able to do go a real long way. So, you know, 1 of the things that we're in is that mind shift. Just how we used to lead is different, you know, as you tied on to it's do what I say.

Don't ask me any questions right now. It's why what's the purpose? You know, how does that align with my vision? How does that align with my values? And, you know, changing that mind shift from do it this way to now. Let me tell you why and taking the time. It's been a pivot, you know, it's been a pivot in my life, you know, it's going from that as well to everybody else.

But when you provide the why, a lot of things happen, you know, and then being open to, to learning from others. So that personalization goes a real long way. So I just go back to personalization over standardization. 1 of the things I tell my folks [00:27:00] all the time is you expect what you accept, you know, and you go from there.

The importance of grace

[00:27:07] Brady Young: The beauty of going last on a question is I'm probably not going to talk very much because the points are, I'm like, um, yes, I agree with you 100%. Um, what's, yeah, there's a lot of change going on in the world right now. Uh, the beauty, and there's a lot of different type of people with, uh, you know, different backgrounds, different desires, different styles, all that sort of stuff.

And there's a lot of different companies that do it different too. And so I think we all just need to know who we are. Organizations need to know who they are. Um, maybe they, you know, maybe they're going to do some unpopular stuff, but that's to some people, but that's who they are and they need to double down on that.

Now, once you get in, once that match happens, that person's like, this is the place I want to be because I like what they're about. Once you get in there, yeah, 100 percent personalization [00:28:00] around development. Absolutely. I think that's critical. Everyone's journey is different. Everyone's background is different.

There's no doubt. And again, I don't think it's that hard to do. We have to just get leaders to think about those who work with them and not so much about just the tasks getting done. But in all this, um, in all this. It's changing a lot. It has a ton of change. We need a lot of grace. Let me just put it that way.

I think we just need a ton of grace. I'm going to get it wrong. Leaders are going to get it wrong. They're like, but I'm old school. I don't know how to do this yet. And so I think people who want them to change to that need to give them grace and leaders who don't understand different generations than them need to give them grace.

And I think if we all approach things with an open mind and our hearts open and with grace, then the stumbling is going to happen. Let's not get angry about it. Let's just help each other through it. You know, ask the questions and provide perspective [00:29:00] and with open ears and open hearts, it's going to be fine.

We're going to get through this. Organizations are going to get better. People are going to be more fulfilled. But I think the bottom line is that patience and grace to me, for sure. 

[00:29:15] Derek Lundsten: Go ahead, go ahead. 

[00:29:16] Doretha Bailey: No, I'm sitting here just thinking about as everybody was talking about. It's like, we're in this big change and we're talking about just even generations and just moving from the industrial age to the digital age where we're at now.

It's the fact that now vulnerability is tied to it and transparency and I remember when I 1st was told, hey, you need to be more vulnerable. And, um, and that was a few years ago and I'm like, more vulnerable. Hold on, I'm just going to show a little bit of weakness, right? So, getting your pride and your ego out of the way and really understanding what that looks like.

So, if we're talking about the pandemic and those that were essential workers that were working during the timeframe is to really sit there and say, you know, what? I'm scared too, but let's get through this [00:30:00] together. When you sit there and you build that, it goes a long way. So, um, really building on what does transparency look like?

Right? You're not going to give your whole tire self, but, you know, you're able to sit there and be able to be relatable. Right? You're redefining and really building human relations and what that means. 

[00:30:22] Derek Lundsten: Well said. So, couple things. I want to, I want to explore that concept of grace for a second on the social level just in a moment, but I also want to pose a question.

First, because I think this is a big part of how we innovate. It's around that concept of grace. I want to acknowledge that, Brady. 

Innovation, creativity, and mobility in HR

[00:30:35] Derek Lundsten: But back to innovation is something that you said, Marisa, is that, you know, we were all figuring it out, right? Every company, leadership team, every team, every culture, everyone was figuring it out.

That's the entire basis of how Rebels as a movement grew because everyone wanted to share their lessons and their perspective and their experiences. And that's why we're here, right? I think it's important to just acknowledge that we still have the opportunity to [00:31:00] operate in that way now, even without a quote unquote crisis.

Right? It almost feels like we have constant crises now because information flows so quickly. There's a new thing every week depending on what you prioritize or what you value or what's important to someone. And so we could constantly live in that place. But if we actually move to a place of... Grace, to your point and acceptance and actually trying to create a new.

I think there's an opportunity there and I'm kind of kind of talking a little bit out loud, but. Really, we think about creativity. HR, historically has not been known to be the creatives of the organization. How do we start? But I know from each of this con, you're all creatives, right? I and I see more and more creative leaders in HR within leadership of people in general.

How do we start to inspire that creativity to come with new ways? Like for example, you mentioned Aretha. Early on, you didn't have a college education. How do we look at education differently? How do we, where is the responsibility shift between organizations and people to cultivate skills? We hear all the time right now [00:32:00] about there's a talent shortage, and yet there's so much talent out there.

There's generations of people that are coming in that don't even know what's possible in the workplace. So how do we start to literally build new ways of doing business, of transferring expectations and agreements? How do we start building new ways of developing talent in and outside of the workplace?

And I think one last thing I'll say, and then... You guys can chime in on this around mobility. I think it's fascinating that each of you has said you want to work with multiple organizations. You know, we talk about the time duration. We used to work for companies for decades. Now we work for companies for two years, maybe.

That's what we're seeing in the data. So then, then the question is, are we trying to get a company so we have people with us for 10 years? We're trying to get people to stay with us for as long as they want to. And that might be two weeks up to, up to two months to two, whatever that is. Like, how do we start to facilitate that kind of rubber band of Expectations around time and, and what's important when it comes to money, when it comes to benefits, when it comes to purpose, when it comes to education, like.

We need to kind of start thinking totally differently, I think, and I'm just [00:33:00] kind of putting that out there to see what pops from your thoughts on that, on that kind of rant, for lack of a better term. I wouldn't even call it a question, it's more of a rant. So, yeah. 

[00:33:08] Brady Young: I want to grab, uh, Derek, I want to grab just one piece of that, and I know, uh, Doretha and Marissa will take the rest of it, but the one thing about the time that people are at organizations, um, and one of my last corporate stops before going out, On my own, that was something we were talking about.

We were looking around at the anniversary parties and celebrating 5, 10, 15, 20 years, and, uh, no one's going to do that anymore. We're celebrating the wrong thing, to be honest. Like, I, I do believe in, in retention. Absolutely. But if you got somebody in your organization who was a creative person, who was a mover and a shaker, a driver, got a bunch of stuff done, innovated a lot, and you had them for two and a half years.

I would be jumping up and down and doing backflips for someone like that. So, um, it's not about sticking around for a long time or holding them [00:34:00] here or, you know, making those benefits be, it's a four year vest, you know, or whatever it is. Like, I don't think we need to do that anymore. We need to recognize people for what they bring and for who they are.

Right? Um, for both who they are and what they bring and celebrate that versus tenure. A ton of other things you uncovered, Derek, but that was just the one that I wanted 

to, to talk about. 

[00:34:22] Marissa Andrada: I mean, I totally agree on that. I always coach managers that they should think about development as how do you develop your people in a way that they have marketable skills.

For their next job, whether it's inside this company or outside this company, right? Because I'm also a big believer in boomerangs, right? So people may leave you because there's something else that they see, but they also come back when they realize, oh, there's something else. I want to learn from that later.

I think Doretha might have mentioned too, and you did too, Brady, that it's not companies. It's people that people go and work for. Um, so anyway, I'm reacting to [00:35:00] what you said, Brady, but then. You know, I love that you're ranting about this, Derek. Um, I love the notion of why do we need a crisis? Change is happening all the time.

And what I'm a big believer in is co creation, right? So cultures need to be co created. I remember I was doing, um, an interview for my last company. And the CEO kind of tossed the answer back to me and people were like, how do you know, how do you know what to do next? How to innovate for your company?

You've done all these innovative benefits, development, et cetera, et cetera. And I'm like, here's one secret. I'm going to give it all to you. Ask your employees. Ask them what they think and really listen. And so when I think about this notion of co creation, I agree with you, Derek, that it shouldn't be, Oh my goodness, it's a pandemic.

We don't have a playbook. And now I think there should be confidence in values. So if a company has truly its purpose and its values and what it stands for, and hopefully one of those values is all around [00:36:00] celebrating people. Then, um, you know, this notion of co creation, this notion of giving people agency to kind of direct their, um, pathway into this company and however long they want to be here and also shape a culture where everyone feels like they've got their fingerprints all over it.

So I think I'm ranting along with you, but I agree that, um, that's. For regardless of generation, you know, Doretha said this already, people want to be seen and heard and they want to feel like they're part of something and that they're given the, the agency to do that. And I think that's. You know, the unlock.

Being a voice for the unheard

[00:36:43] Doretha Bailey: And the question goes to, like, what are the lens that we're looking at people? Right. You know, and so when you said that, it got my blood boiling in a good way is thinking about it is, you know, one of the things of why I want to sit there and be [00:37:00] a voice for people of the unheard is what we considered as a professional or an expert, right.

In an area, if someone has been in a field for 30. Or we'll say 20, 30 years, whatever it is, why are they not considered a professional if they don't have a degree, or if they don't have a certification in it? You know, why is that? So the question goes back to what is the organization looking at? Is the organization looking at it for a credential?

So you're able to sit there and sell this to people and say, we have this amount of certified people, you know, um, you know, what, why is that? Right? Um, and so my 1st introduction to that. Was my father when he got out of the military, you know, he served 20 something years. He was a head of a weather station.

He was on, um, armed forces network. He, you know, he did a lot of things that was tied as a meteorologist and when he got out, even though he had multiple degrees, because he didn't have a certification. And, um, as a [00:38:00] meteorologist, he was not considered 1 same thing as I'm thinking about, you know, horticulture, you know, and that you have to have a certification in that to be considered, you know, um, an expert in that.

So it goes back to what are we really considered as an expert? Right? How are we discounting the people that are really doing this job? And who can who are teaching others, right? Or starting businesses or doing whatever it is in those fields. So the expectations need to be realistic. And the other part of it too is you know how not to make other people's perceptions, your reality that you take that in and it stops you from breathing and moving forward.

You know, a lot of people leave organizations 'cause they, you know, they feel there's no opportunities there. You know, you'll hear two main things when people leave organizations. One is the people, or there's no training and development opportunities, you know, that are there. So, if you're really talking about getting people to the next level, and you want them to [00:39:00] stay in your organization, then how are you helping them within their career journey in their path?

Right? And I understand that people's like, hey, you know, I don't want to sit there and invest in this person because they may leave and they take that out. And then it goes back to some of the old things that we read. Well, why are they leaving? You know, um, and again, it goes back to people. If you treat people well, they'll stay majority of the time, you know, when you're there.

And so, and I'm thinking about even my own journey. I moved from company to company to company, because when people said that I couldn't do something, I went and did it in another organization and I succeeded in it. You know, I've seen it in other people where, you know, we've all been in those conversations where we're saying, hey, this person wants.

To be, you know, let's say, for example, they're a controller and they want to move into the CFO role and it's well, I don't see that person going to be able to sit there and go into CFO role. Well, what are you basing that off of? Because then they leave the organization. And then they become a [00:40:00] CFO and they're extremely successful.

So we lost out on top talent because of someone else's perspective on how that person is. You're right. You know, and then so it goes back to. Unlocking biases and perceptions off of the lenses of what we think are professional or what we think this role should look like, you know, um, we can talk about the perception of what professionalism looks like.

You know, how many times have you seen people in a C suite actually with facial hair? You know, I've seen it during a pandemic that they had to, you know, facial hair when we're on zoom or any type of webcast and then they go back in the office and they shave it all off. Right? So, what is the difference between you on the webcast?

And you sitting, you know, in the office. So the question is, what is professionalism? How do we move forward? You know, and how do we sit there and really move our expectations and our lenses to be a wider [00:41:00] perspective versus a narrow lens? 

[00:41:04] Derek Lundsten: Well said. I just laughed at that last comment too, just in terms of how you just said that personally, that just the facial hair thing, because it's not something you see often.

So I appreciate the shout out on that one, but everything else I completely agree with as well. It just, there's so much, there's so much to go through here. 

What are you doing to develop yourselves?

[00:41:20] Derek Lundsten: So I have, I'm going to shift gears for a second. I want to ask this question. What are each of you doing right now to develop your own personal talent, your own personal skills, your own personal growth for this shifting time?

marketplace, right? Because it really is a big shift that's happening right now. And I'm curious, you know, I know personally, I've worked with coaches and different mentors on this, but I'm curious, what are, what are you doing in your own lives right now to expand your own skills, your own lenses, your own views, so that you are able to then pour into others?

[00:41:53] Doretha Bailey: Um, I can start so, um, I'm an advocate reader. That's 1 thing. So I do a lot of reading, [00:42:00] um, a lot through education webinars, um, actually talking to people outside of my field and really having transparent conversations, um, during this personal growth. Um, to be just 100 percent candid and those that, um, may remember me from the visionary conference, uh, 2022, I was wounded at that time.

Right? Um, and, you know, you don't realize it until you're having this conversation, but it was just beat up with a bunch of things from, I'll say, COVID and then some other personal things that were tied to it. So, rebuilding my voice has been really imperative. So I've been intentional with that. Um. And then, you know, listening to people.

And that's it, you know, I moved into a different industry and I'm a strong believer really understanding the industry. I need to be with the staff. So, when I actually did ride along[00:43:00]

instantly, the branch manager wanted to link me up with a manager. So I showed up there and I'm all in the uniform and. I was like, so, who am I going to ride with? You know, and I'm having a conversation with the technicians. It's like, oh, no, we thought you wanted to be with the manager. And I said, no, I'll do I'll shadow the managers later, but I really want to be with the technicians.

And so I did that throughout the different business units that we have. So I can learn what they do every day. But I'm not sitting in the truck being pretty and, you know, all of this stuff. I'm actually doing the work. And once I started doing the work, I started to really realize what they needed. But I just remembered that that's what I needed for my personal growth.

So, if I'm sitting there and I'm trying to help them, I need to understand what they're doing on a day to day basis. I need to understand their mindset. You know, I need to understand a lot. That's there. I need to actually as well, make myself a value member [00:44:00] of the team. So, by doing that, I am taking myself out of my comfort zone to sit there and help people and I'm having really transparent conversations with people to better myself.

Um, I'm actually getting ready to have an executive coach as well, too, because, you know, the pivot is I am truly in an executive role now. And it's 1 of those things of moving from being both strategic and tactical to being 100 percent strategic. What does that look like? What are my blind spots that I don't see?

And so I'm having those real candid conversations, um, and I'm gaining mentors, you know, as I'm going through it as well, too. So continue with that growth, um, and being very candid, being very vulnerable, um, saying, hey, this makes me nervous and tapping into that. That's what I've been doing to help humanize myself in it, um, and not trying to be perfect.

You know, all the time, because again, that just leads to being burnt out and it makes you a better [00:45:00] person and I'm not trying to be bitter. Um, but as well as, you know, just again, just doing a lot of research, a lot of reading and then, um, I'm enrolled in a program. So that's a continual thing. And, um, I'm really tying into organizational development is where I'm really focusing on as its type of strategy and innovation.

So that is my personal and professional growth. 

[00:45:24] Brady Young: That's great. Taretha, a Ph. D. program, like, what else are you doing? Good grief. 

[00:45:32] Doretha Bailey: It's a lot. It's hard. But, you know, it's one of those things of, um, you know, it's. It's a personal thing because, you know, I never would have thought I would have been there and that's to be 100 percent honest.

You're talking to someone who was in special ed and, you know, I'm not supposed to be where I'm at. And so, um, you know, and I attribute it honestly, both to my parents who pushed me, even though, I mean, I fought them [00:46:00] every inch of the way. And, um, I always had a mouth. It always got me in trouble too. But, um, so it was like how I just sat there and just honed it in.

Um, but I want to be able to really help people and to really be able to help them. I want to position myself to do that. Um, and sometimes that's being a testament and it's, you know, and that's just it. You can do it regardless of where you started. 

[00:46:26] Brady Young: That's awesome. I think that's, that's great. Keep going.

And, uh, the bags under your eyes will grow and it'll be late nights, but you're going to do great. Keep up the energy. Um, so for me, um, going back to Derek's question about like, what am I doing for myself and how am I translating that into helping others? Um, I am discussing, having conversations with diverse people all the time, CEOs, other coaches, HR professionals.

People on the line, like everybody and talking about like, [00:47:00] what are you going to need? What should I do? I sit and I'm real vulnerable talking about like, I don't have these conversations. These are CEOs. These could be potential clients. And right now I'm at the point where I'm talking to them about like, I want to know what to do because I don't have all the answers.

So I don't come off as this like guy that knows everything. And in that moment, they see. Me being humble. And then they are like, that's great. And then they pour into me and there's so much to learn, so much to learn from others. And it's just been a blessing. Um, and all my whole life I've done that for other people.

I've turned around and just poured into them when they've asked. And that's the best way to learn. Well, that's one way to learn. The other way to learn that I'm doing right now is just taking a step forward. I'm not going to kill anyone. My mistakes will not like, I'm not flying a plane, right? My mistakes are not going to kill anybody.

I'm not a surgeon. And so take a step, get into, like you said, the discomfort, [00:48:00] right? And that's where all the learning is, is in the discomfort and trying and maybe failing, um, or succeeding and learning from that. So, you know, talking to people, giving it a shot, putting a foot forward are the ways. Uh, that I'm learning myself and then I'm going to turn that around and those are the lessons I want to impart on other people.

Listen to other people, talk to other people, open up and teach the skills I'm learning about taking that step forward and being vulnerable. Because that's where the other people that I'm going to coach or help consult with are going to make their biggest changes as well. So I guess I'm just doing what I'm going to preach.

Love it. Pretty much. 

[00:48:42] Marissa Andrada: Um, after I made a pivot and transition to do my own thing last year, the first thing that I did was actually hire an executive coach. You know, for me, not because I'm associated with the company, I think it was really important just to have an outside person be a [00:49:00] thought partner to me to get clarity around.

What is it that I want to create and where and how I spend my time. How do I make an impact? And how am I intentional in that? And I think it was really important to have that. I also think to be candid that it was important to process out loud no matter. Whether or not you choose to leave, right, you have to come complete with what has been before you, before you can move forward.

And so I think in working with the coach who I still work with today, I meet with her twice a month, it is not only the vision and what I want to do going forward, but it is also with her. Whatever's happening in your life, whether it's professional, personal, et cetera, how do you come complete with that so that it's not like this open switch that gets in the way of creation, you know, going forward?

I'd say a second thing is I'm very new to being on a public company board. You know, I remember when I was sitting in the C suite and I [00:50:00] got a lot of developmental feedback from my CEO on what board members had to say about me. And one thing I would say about personal development, and I still do this today, I, while I don't have a team of direct reports per se, I do have a team of former direct reports and advisors.

And when I get feedback, I'm always going to them, much like I did when I was an official manager of them. I'd say, I just got this developmental feedback. And I need help fixing this. And I need, you know, I need your guidance. I would love your perspective. And I remember when my team kind of went, yikes, I've never had a manager who actually came and told me that here's a developmental feedback that she got from her CEO or from her direct manager.

I'm like, why are you telling us this? And they said, it's kind of twofold. One is I clearly have blind spots. And so I need help getting unblind, right? But then secondly, If he is giving me feedback on how he views me or experiences me, and I'm [00:51:00] representing the function of people experience, then it's also his perception of the function.

And so I think what's really important in development is. When being vulnerable enough to say, I just don't know it all. And here's a big ding that I got, like, I'm being like way more clean in my language right now, but I'm like, yikes, this is not good. And I think once you kind of open that up, people are going to want to step in and help you.

And so I have found too. I've stepped into a couple of things in advising other companies, and I'm like, yikes, that didn't work well. And, um, again, depending on the relationship you might have with people, have those advisors who can be trusted, who will just, you know, give you straight up, you know, what's up.

And I think learning as a board member, you know, there's a lot of public scrutiny that a lot of, um, this, these companies like ISS and Glass Lewis, [00:52:00] when they. Evaluate the company where you're sitting as a public board member and maybe even sharing a committee. It's like, yikes, that really hurts. So how do I take that information and go to people who are actually experts and tell me, okay, here's what you need to learn.

Here's what you could be doing differently. And just sitting with that. Um, and I think 1 thing, too, that really resonates with me that I know Dorothea, you do, and I've had the chance to do working in other organizations and still hasn't stopped is that 1 of the funnest times in the last year was actually as a board member.

Visiting the different formats of Krispy Kremes, whether it's the factory, whether it's the theater shops, whether it's a donut store, or you're just going to the grocery store where it's direct, you know, fresh delivery and actually engaging with the employees. You know, I have a love of working with hourly employees and seeing them actually go and succeed to become like VPs in [00:53:00] their own right.

And what I found was. You know, they weren't used to that. First of all, they don't care if you're a board member or not. But I think what the company wasn't used to was like, wow, you actually want to engage with all of our employees. And part of it is how can you advise as a board member? If you don't understand.

Firsthand, what the frontline is really thinking about their experience, you know, with the company, and I think it's the wildest thing. And I've, I've asked the same questions over and over of, you know, tens of thousands of employees that I've worked with. It's fascinating to hear the common themes. You know, what people say, what they need, and when you open it up and say, is there one thing we're not thinking about?

Is there an idea that we need to bring to, you know, whoever's running this company? It's amazing what they tell you. And so, um, it's a reminder and much like Brady, it is, you know, I, I, I like to interview a lot of different people from a lot of different industries. Many [00:54:00] different generations just to understand what I don't know, you know, and the biggest thing right now that I'm navigating through and I'm observing actually on the sidelines with my husband, he's, you know, he's a consultant and he uses a lot of AI to really evolve what, what it is that he's doing.

I'm like, okay, how do I take that? and help change the game in terms of what I'm doing. And so there's a lot of, I don't know, versus I know right now. 

[00:54:27] Derek Lundsten: Thanks for sharing that, Marisa. So I'm just going to veer back to something I heard from each of you. And this whole time we've been talking, but especially in that last question, throughout your career, throughout your current situation, each of you has someone who is believing in you, supporting you.

Investing in you emotionally and their time and their, and their, what they've learned. They're, they're, they have your back and they're giving it to you selflessly in essence. Like, they just want you to succeed. And you, you found that person either through circumstance or through intention. And you had that, that caring.[00:55:00]

As part of what you're developing. At the same time, you're being exposed to skills and you're seeking those skills, you're seeking those opportunities, and you're also serving in those roles for other people, right? So when you think about that quadrant of caring and, and seeking and skills and serving, That mutuality of what you each are doing or have done in your careers and are doing now in this day is what you're doing.

That, in my opinion, is a core part of how we develop talent, right? Because it's about that personalization. It's finding what that individual needs. It's about bringing the lessons and skills and wisdom that you have. Sharing that and it multiplies and goes past down the line and that's really what we're all here doing.

I just wanted to kind of, I think you each articulate that so well and I just love doing this together for that reason. So I'm just really grateful that you all have joined us today. You're part of our Rebels community and welcome officially. Thanks for joining us and sharing your hearts and minds, uh, with our entire group in our community.

So as always for our audience, thank you for sharing your time with us and your contributions. It's an honor to do this work with you all and we'll see you [00:56:00] in the next one. 

[00:56:02] Marissa Andrada: All right. Thank you. Thank you. See ya.