SPEAKERS

LILY, JENNY

JENNY  00:04

Very fashion. 

LILY  00:07

Yeah, interesting

JENNY  00:08

but I know that with ______ I've definitely I tried to steer him away from the stripy polos to the buttoned down check shirts and occasionally have had, we've had situations where he hasn't dressed as I've wanted him to when we've been going to something and I've gotten shitty.

LILY  00:28

Yeah it's interesting. I might be very much this in like the COVID bubble where we're not going to events, we're not going to things where I, cause you know, I very much like to dress what I think is appropriate for event. The ideas of being over or under dressed is like a constant low level panic I probably have 

JENNY  00:52

really? 

LILY  00:52

Yeah, I hate it. I hate it. I think I'd rather be under than over but still, it's yeah, I always want to be chic. So I don't know. So that might definitely change or as we kind of get older and there's more things but I think he's quite good at reading situations like that. It's just within his own style. If that makes sense.  Which he has a very-

JENNY  01:14

He just needs, has he got a jacket like a blazer or something?

LILY  01:18

Um he had a very nice bomber jacket that he lost one night when we were out. Annoying

JENNY  01:24

Anyway, 

LILY  01:25

like for my birthday thing, where we had our dinner

JENNY  01:28

This year or last this year? 

LILY  01:30

I didn't know him last year 

JENNY  01:32

No that's true. You didn't [laughter]

LILY  01:35

Where was he popping up in our lockdown celebrations at your house? [Laughter]

JENNY  01:39

Yeah, he just random on Facebook.

LILY  01:44

No, he looked lovely. Had a white shirt on and and kind of light-coloured jeans and boots. And to me that is like almost the perfect male look is like a shirt and jeans. It's [chef's kiss] everything I would want I love it

JENNY  01:55

Very nice and you just throw a jacket on that, like a nice jacket. I'm thinking like a light blazer or linen blazer or something. Fantastic.

LILY  02:03

Yeah. Or he needs to get another bomber because his bomber would look really good with that. He like he has this leather jacket. Which I'm just I don't know how I feel about leather jackets.

JENNY  02:15

I have a strong a strong association. Association there with Turkish men.

LILY  02:21

Turkish Yeah, maybe that's what it is. I've just got this kind of real something about it.  I don't know if I've ever seen anyone look good in a leather jacket. They're so stiff as well.

JENNY  02:33

Well, that depends on the on the, is it soft lamb leather from Turkey? Or is it harsh, stiff vinyl 'leather' from-

LILY  02:45

I think it's real leather he said it was very expensive. God my skin is so dry. Sorry. Can I just quickly grab something?

JENNY  02:52

Go. I'll pause. Can I just ask about the bomber? I can't see a bomber jacket going with a shirt. How does that work? 

LILY  03:01

I think it could. 

JENNY  03:03

Yeah. Could or you know that? It does? Because you said that? Seth's already had that look before he lost the jacket.

LILY  03:11

No, he didn't have that look. I didn't say that. OK so maybe it wouldn't work.

JENNY  03:17

Well, you said that the shirt the jeans and the boots is almost the perfect look. Then I said just add a jacket meaning a blazer and you said 'or a bomber jacket. He had a really nice bomber jacket.' So that's why I'm querying would that go together? 

LILY  03:34

Well, I'm saying I think it would and remembering back to his bomber jacket and saying he had a really nice one that I think would would have gone well with that outfit combo, but I don't know. I haven't seen it on. Like I guess you know? 

JENNY  03:46

Sure. 

LILY  03:47

[Laughter] Anyway, so yeah, who knows bomber jacket/jacket? Dressing guys is hard. But it's also like so simple. 

JENNY  03:59

Yeah, they don't have to do much. 

LILY  04:01

Just generally, I've been thinking about this lately. They don't have to do much. Generally, they get a good haircut. Yeah, work out maybe a little bit. Like just like not even that much just like you don't have a huge beer gut. Which if you want to that's your body. It's fine. But I'm just saying if we're if we're going by conventional standards. 

JENNY  04:20

Yeah, we don't want to be guttist. 

LILY  04:22

No, we don't want to be guttist. Drink your beer, my friends but like and then just kind of dress in a shirt from time to time. Plain t-shirt, good pair of jeans

JENNY  04:33

and don't go out on dates or to family events in a stripy polo

LILY  04:37

just don't wear a polo. I don't think polos are a thing for people my age though. Unless it's like 'lad'. God the biggest 'argument' that we've been having is he loves his side part, which I just think is so millennial and dated and I like even mum has changed to a middle part. 

JENNY  04:56

[Laughter]

LILY  04:58

Like just change to a middle part, it looks so much better. It just creates symmetry with your face, right?

JENNY  05:06

Yeah it does. It'd make him look like Jesus?

LILY  05:08

Yeah, it's like, yeah, well, fine, Jesus was kind of hot. 

JENNY  05:12

Nothing wrong with that.

LILY  05:12

He had a vibe. 

JENNY  05:13

Hot Jesus. [Laughter]

LILY  05:15

Hot Jesus with spacers [laughter]

JENNY  05:19

If Jesus existed today, he'd have spacers.

LILY  05:23

And be an emo kid from Brisbane.

JENNY  05:25

Yeah, yeah, he would be 

LILY  05:29

Yeah, well, but yeah. Anyway, so I'll say that's my kind of my one battle.

JENNY  05:35

Have you tried? Have you made him do a centre part and have a look?

LILY  05:39

Well actually I've had a look I don't know if I've shown him in the mirror. Maybe I'll do that again.

JENNY  05:45

Right. So despite at the beginning of this conversation, you saying 'So you know, I think it's -- what was the word? -- not audacious? Was AUDACIOUS of someone to want to be tampering with their partner's, appearance -- aesthetic --, here we are talking side part versus centre part. And it's, what did you say? It's your?

LILY  06:05

The hill I'll die on! My one battle? 

JENNY  06:10

We all -

LILY  06:11

We all have our things

JENNY  06:12

We all have our things. I'd like to hear from any people who

LILY  06:16

truly not tampering with their partner's-

JENNY  06:19

Yeah, truly willing to just leave them be *from the beginning*. Okay? Not now, after 30 years of marriage where you don't give a fuck. From the beginning that you have just, you know, let the be?

LILY  06:32

Let it happen. Yeah, I think I think this really highlights what, I've always found a very interesting concept in relationships, which is this person essentially being an extension of you, and how how warped I think you can kind of get surrounding that, because I've definitely felt that at times. And kind of, yeah, that's how people I think, can get very controlling of the look and behaviour, particularly in situations with say family and friends, but yeah, where you feel exposed, and on show. And I do think it is like, you know, despite my middle-part battle, my kind of- I can see myself being someone who would get very controlled in that way. And so it is my kind of challenge to like, almost not really enter into it. Because then I'll start to try and change too much or try and control too much or try have too much it being my vision and to really just be here at the sidelines, being like 'I have opinions', I'm might sometimes say stuff but like I just got to let it be and happen because I think it can get dangerous, you know?

JENNY  07:36

Oh it can, and I am actually quite surprised that you have resisted that but now you've explained that that makes sense. And I don't think people or partners are- well some people might see them as an extension. For me they're not an extension but they are a reflection, and that's where that sort of your own insecurities or lack of confidence can become a bit more apparent. Yeah, and I know with your dad like in Turkey, he was the one that was a fish out of water. In Turkey he was completely in context and then we came out here and he was here with quite a formal dress code and there's the sort of slip on shoes with the tassels and the socks. And the pleated trousers it looked gorgeous

LILY  08:23

like so bizarre 

JENNY  08:24

so gorgeous. But it was very- Australians you know, men with their shorts or their jeans 

LILY  08:31

Australians and casual wear, we almost have a deep fear I think of that overdressed- like we will tend towards the casual, chilled, the laid back before we ever tend towards a formal aesthetic. Even occasions, it's all about being just a bit cool, a bit laid back 

JENNY  08:48

And not wanting to seem that you've tried or not even 'try hard': trying *at all*.

LILY  08:54

That is I think like the particularly -- I don't know if other cities -- but very much in Melbourne. That is like the the summit, the pinnacle of trendy, cool chic fashion, which is looking so gorgeous and put together in such an effortless laid back way. Like which is such a mindfuck and kind of impossible to do. And it's almost like you don't want everything to look perfect. You want nine things look perfect and the tenth to not, and then that's what offsets the whole look

JENNY  09:27

[Laughter] Yeah, that's always been my approach. You know, the nine things, you know what my 10th thing is? 

LILY  09:33

What?

JENNY  09:34

My hair

LILY  09:35

I was gonna say hair but I didn't want to say it

JENNY  09:38

like very it's a very studied look. Of not seeming coiffed?

LILY  09:46

I just I really try and frizz it as much as I can

JENNY  09:49

I try to frefrizzeze it and I try to have it looking as out of control as possible, but just this side of absolute witch [laughter]

LILY  09:59

It's called 'the horse head method' . Have you heard? [Laughter]

JENNY  10:03

Yeah you might have heard of the co-wash or the no-poo. But this is the 

LILY  10:10

next big thing 

JENNY  10:12

Yeah the horse method

LILY  10:16

Yeah, that reflection element I find very fascinating.