SPEAKERS
LILY (the daughter), JENNY (the mother)
JENNY 00:00
This episode contains explicit language and is not suitable for younger audiences.
LILY 00:14
So, welcome to My Mum's Bad Diaries, the podcast where we read my mother's bad diaries, just in case you couldn't figure that out [laughter].
JENNY 00:26
And I'm the mother. I'm Jenny, I'm reading my 1981 Diary.
LILY 00:31
And I am Lily, the daughter and listener
JENNY 00:34
and interrogator. Hello,
LILY 00:47
hello. Good morning. How are you?
JENNY 00:48
Good morning. I'm fine. I'm good. Actually, actually, I'm really good.
LILY 00:54
OK that's good. Just quickly, are these the details that we're going to be using now? Every time?
JENNY 00:58
Yeah
LILY 00:59
That's fine. I was just like, make a note of it
JENNY 01:02
Yeah, make a note. Maybe just put it up on a- do you have any post it notes? They can be very useful?
LILY 01:08
Okay, I just have a note. I just use the notes on my computer.
JENNY 01:11
[Laughter] I only recently got the notes onto my computer and your computer and your phone can talk. WHAT?? I've never used the cloud. I've always avoided the cloud.
LILY 01:22
The cloud is quite handy.
JENNY 01:25
I know but I don't like it as a concept. But I think if you don't just don't put all your eggs in one cloud and things will be fine. And backup everywhere.
LILY 01:37
Anyway, shall we start reading?
JENNY 01:39
The 3rd of November 1981. So you remember the significance of this day?
LILY 01:43
Yes, I do. This is a date that I never thought would have significance to me but has since become a significant date because it is the one and only Adam Ant's birthday
JENNY 01:55
It is. Alright so I've done "Happy Birthday Adam" and I've obviously spent, you know, maybe 15 minutes doing really nice lettering and colouring it in green, red, blue, brown.
LILY 02:08
Brown!
JENNY 02:09
Yeah, I don't know obviously a bit limited with the colours there. It's about 11:30pm and I've just finished watching Monty Python and the Holy Grail on TV. It was really funny, words cannot explain and then I've got a whole bullet point list of the funny bits.
LILY 02:26
So words will explain [laughter]
JENNY 02:28
[Laughter]. Some things to remember out of Holy Grail, and this is funny because now I don't think the Holy Grail is that funny. In my mind there's only about two or three scenes that I think are funny but I've got a number of number of points here so let's go
LILY 02:45
Yeah, it's definitely is not my preferred- like I think you know we're very much a Life of Brian family, but I do I do know people who say the Holy Grail, it's Holy Grail all the way for them, like they you know they just don't- I think no, I do think there are funny parts
JENNY 03:03
One bit that I do remember and I love it: Boy trapped by father, kept breaking into song, music starts up, wind blows through the curtains, silhouette falls on the wall, then father rushes in saying 'No! Come on, none of this!' Then the music dies down. Boy sent message to Sir Lancelot -- John Cleese -- to rescue him. Lancelot thought it was a damsel in distress. So he went to the tower, slayed everything in his path including a bridal party of little girls
LILY 03:29
So that I do remember that in the tower, like a damsel being forced into marriage. No, it's all quite camp isn't it
JENNY 03:40
Yeah, the implication is that he's gay. And then I've got 'C'etait tres drole'. [Can't pronounce properly]
LILY 03:57
C'etait tres drole!
JENNY 03:58
[Still can't pronounce] [Laughter]
LILY 04:00
Wow
JENNY 04:01
C'etait tres drole. Okay, fantastic. Let's go on. [Laughter] 5th of November 1981. Well, here I am in my yummy bed after an exhausting day. Even the teachers thought it was the best last day and so did I. They probably said that every year.
LILY 04:20
Yeah probably
JENNY 04:21
I'm so glad it was so successful because then we'll be remembered. I wonder how many of them remembers now. In assembly, Miss _______ was talking about something when all of a sudden... Can you remember?
LILY 04:34
Oh, yes. Your gorilla man.
JENNY 04:36
All of a sudden a gorilla looked around the curtains. Everybody just screamed. It was so funny. He had bongo drums. And as he came onto the stage, he checked Mrs. _____'s hair for fleas. After giving Miss _____ a big hug. Imagine our headmistress Miss ______ being cuddled by a gorilla. And remember I told you she would walk around in her black gown. And she was very, very scary and strict. After he gave her a big hug, he held her hand and said a poem. It was a gorilla-gram. Then after pats on the head, cuddles and putting his head on her shoulder... We would have all been in absolute hysterics.
LILY 05:27
I also just love the the the mischief is like so different to the hijinks now. Now people are like so extreme and like, well, but it's all in good fun.
JENNY 05:41
Yeah. And I think the boys' schools would have been a lot more extreme than us. Like, I do remember hearing things about people, you know, finding a live sheep kind of on a roof of the school.
LILY 05:53
I wonder if any of that's true. Or if it's just-
JENNY 05:55
Urban myth?
LILY 05:56
We had-
JENNY 05:57
Did you have the story? With the sheep on the roof?
LILY 06:00
Apparently in previous years, people got like four sheep but not numbered them like one to like, two and yeah, 1, 2 & 4. Yeah. And so they ran around looking for three. Yeah. And then we also heard that someone bought a cow up into like the bell tower because cows can go upstairs but not downstairs and then it had to get lifted out with a crane. I don't- like- where are people getting all this live livestock in the middle of like, Prahran. So I think unlikely. But it's interesting. Like there's urban myths like you just believe them so much. But definitely boys and having the presence of boys. Boys have no chill. I'm just calling it right now. As a general rule of thumb, they have no chill. So like they always escalate stuff, particularly then and yeah, I think that's when it could tip over into meanness and poor year sevens end up getting egged and stuff like that. Not nice. .
JENNY 06:55
No. It becomes very Lord of the Flies. Yeah, so it was incredible. After pats on the head, cuddles and putting his head on her shoulder, he did some bongo drums, checked Mrs. ______'s hair and left. And Mrs. _____ 3as my economics teacher who I really hated. Remember from year 11, the economics? Class talk drama. It was incredible. I can't wait to get photos of it. Miss ________ was so good about it. Then Dor, L, L and R sang My Way, with changed words. It was so sad. Nim started sniffing and then me, LH and Nim broke up. I couldn't stop crying. I was so sad to think of leaving my warm home of six years, where I've had the best and most happy hours of my life. And I mean that. I associate school with my friends, where I laugh and have the best fun. Then we sang the school hymn. And it was so sad Miss _______ was crying. And Mrs. _______ later said she had never seen Miss Mac so emotional. We are an exceptional year! The class of 81. Sue P gave me a beautiful card, which made me cry even more.
LILY 08:14
I'm just gonna say I think you know, it's- I think it's like such a thing these days -- and a lot of people don't like school -- I get that. There's such a thing to like hate on school, you know. And I think that's such a not good attitude to have like, and it's nice that you had a good school time and that you weren't leaving with that feeling. Because that's how I felt as well. Like, I don't think you want to look back in 20 years and be like, those were the glory days, and life's been shit since. But I think it's nice to be like: I've had some really happy times here, I expect to continue and like, I'm excited for what's coming. But school is good. And it should be good for people like, you know, yeah, I had a great time at school. And it's just nice to like, hear that you also had that. And, it is such a special time when you're leaving. And it's so sad. Like, I just remember being so sad, because it's just such a change from anything like you've ever known.
JENNY 09:10
And you're also at a time in your life in your development where you're probably at peak, probably the most intense moment in terms of that transitional time where you're almost peak insecurity or wonderings and questions and then balanced with excitement and hopes and dreams. And you're just about to step- so you're coming from what should be -- and I know it's not for everybody -- like maximum kind of safety and comfort and the family and whatnot and then you're about to step out into the adult world where you know, for a lot of people, it is a bit a bit downhill. Like there's a book that came out a few years ago called Don't Peak in High School and it was, I think, a collection of essays of probably writers who maybe didn't have such a great high school time, and then went on, you know, to sort of achieve for themselves the sorts of lives that they wanted. That idea that almost the worst thing is to peak in high school. For that to be - like you were just saying before - the best years, the glory years, and then after that, it's like a bit of a decline, or there's not living up to expectations, or there's just disappointment after disappointment.
LILY 10:33
I think that, to me, I see that as a very American thing. And that's quite a trope. And like, movies there is this idea of like, the jock in high school becomes the guy working at the Burger Shack, and the nerd becomes a really successful, something, tech, whatever. And, like, you know, this idea of all flipping and reversing, and I don't know, if it happens too much here. I think that's more likely, like, you know, obviously, yeah, some people don't have great experiences, and then they go on, and have great social times at uni, and, you know, find their people and create that for themselves, which is wonderful. But I think for a lot of people, they have good high school experiences, and they just continue on into uni and have a good time that like, yeah, I feel like America, high school is just like, it's a weird ecosystem that's created that is so not reflective of the real world in any way. And people get propped up because of like, their sporting abilities, or being super popular, or like, whatever. And so that would be such a huge kind of shock. You're entering the real world. And I think also the real world in America is so much more kind of like, sink or swim and survival of the fittest, like, you know, just the few people that I know, over there, or, you know, people friends here who have friends. It's like, everyone's hustling all the time. You know, everyone is they're just like living rent to rent and can't go to the doctor because it will bankrupt them. And like it is you are just surviving, and you're hustling with this hope that one day you're gonna, like, strike upon the thing, it's going to make you a bajillionaire, then you know, and everyone's like, like you were saying before about what the principal at primary school saying about, like, my generation doing lots of different things and having lots of different careers. And it's not, Oh, you do this for a little bit, you go back, you retrain, you do this, which is maybe the millennial generation before. It's, you're doing all of those things at the same time, you've got five different revenue streams on the go.
JENNY 12:32
So I just wanted to say to when we were talking about the Don't Peak in High School, and that flipping, and that's very much Sally Rooney's Normal People, isn't it? Connor, in high school is the guy, and she's the sort of outsider and then it completely changes. So that's an interesting exploration of how that works
LILY 12:50
it is how that works. Because it's just like, I guess what is being having a successful high school experience is just like being included in the group. Right? So that is like being like, yeah, that's the whole point of Normal People, was being in the norm. And he was in the norm. And then she was in the norm. Which is so interesting, because that's all you really need to do. And I remember thinking high school, it's like, yeah, you just want to be normal. You just want to be in the mid level. You don't want to be super popular. You obviously don't want to be you know, people who are very unpopular. You just want to be in that midsection.
JENNY 13:25
Yeah, but I think there are people that want to be really super popular.
LILY 13:29
I know and that sounds exhausting, and good luck to them. And I hope it's going to make them very happy.
JENNY 13:33
But yeah, in Her most recent book, Sally Rooney's most recent book. I've gone fucking blank. Ah, Beautiful World, Where Are You? She uses the word 'normal', far more frequently than one would expect. So it's definitely deliberate I believe.
LILY 13:53
Interesting
JENNY 13:54
Yeah. Anyway, I just wanted to throw that little snippet in
LILY 13:57
Have you finished that yet?
JENNY 13:58
I have. You can borrow. Yeah,
LILY 14:01
I was thinking yeah, maybe we can do a walk.
JENNY 14:02
Let's do a walk because I gotta give you the eye mask- the sleeping mask.
LILY 14:06
Yeah, cool. Yeah, because I've been waking- I woke up at 8.30 this morning. I don't know what's going on with my sleep. I'm wearing my eye mask but like, it would theoretically be 7.30 with daylight savings. Why am I waking up at 7.30, I was like I've clicked over into becoming an old person now and it's like my body is like: No more sleep but my whole brain and everything else was like: No. Nine hours please is
JENNY 14:29
_________, because I bought two and I ________'s co-opted the other one I said just give it a go because the brightness was waking him up and he was on annual leave and wanting to sleep in a bit. I said just give the mask and so he loves it. So I've lost that. I haven't even tried it. I might have to get another one.
LILY 14:46
Everyone's like, oh, whatever 'eye mask' and I'm like literally it is- it is the way to be.
JENNY 14:53
It does something apart from blocking out the light.
LILY 14:58
It's calming.
JENNY 14:59
It's something calming about some- having that over your eyes. I mean, yeah, some people would not agree, some people would hate it, like it would be triggering
LILY 15:06
It depends what kind. The really shit ones that are just flat. Terrible because there's no space for your eyes and eyelashes. But the good ones have a space for that.
JENNY 15:20
Especially for the people that get their eyelash, not extensions, lifts
LILY 15:23
Which is why I wanted this one. I can't wait to get an eyelash lift again. I can't.
JENNY 15:30
Oh, we have to talk about the hairdresser. But we'll do it in our own time. [Laughter] Let me read
LILY 15:36
[Sings] Let me read!
JENNY 15:39
9th of November 1981. I'm in bed at Inverloch after a superb day, with nothing much to say. I've got dad's Rutland Dirty Weekend Book by Eric Idle of Monty Python here. And I think I'll browse through and see if there any tidbits I could quickly copy out. It's quite amusing. And I've got this whole diagram. I've copied the whole illustration.
LILY 16:06
"After an acid bath", what in the world? "They say it's got something to do with the chemicals"? Lol
JENNY 16:12
[Laughter] So I'll put it in the show notes. But things happen after an- so it's like an advertisement, obviously, in a magazine. And it's got a skeleton looking out of a window and they've got a car looking in through the window to the skeleton. It's like "things happen after an acid bath. They say it's got something to do with the chemicals." And I bet if we looked up, we could find from 1981 or late 70s "Things happen after a Radox bath", I bet That's what that is. I bet there was an ad with a woman with a towel around her hips looking out the window after the bath and the man coming back. And it's got "welcoming acids of foamy and green, heavy with the mysterious magic of hydrochloric, a fresh, invigorating sensation as the skin peels away." So that's something that obviously took my fancy and then I've got on the other page, the Ozzie Bible. So this is Eric Idle, who played... was Eric Brian. Anyway, Eric Idle, obviously one of the Monty Python team. So he's obviously put this book together, and then the Ozzie Bible the story of creation. In six days, the Lord created the heaven and the earth, and the Sydney Opera House. Read as never before the wonderful story of how God created Australians, Adam and Evelyn in the Garden of Eden. Bloody Strewth, Lord said, Adam, I couldn't have go a bit of spare rib. So Evelyn was sent to be Adam's sheila and Evelyn took one look at Adam's trouser snake and saw that it was good. [Laughter] Why did you nibble the passion fruit from the gum tree of knowledge? queried the Lord. And the sheila answered "Adam's trouser snake... [laughter] Adam's trouser snake beguiled me and I did eat."
LILY 16:45
Right? Ew oh my god
JENNY 18:14
So they were thrown out of the Garden of Aden and sent to a penal colony because Adam bruised his heel and Evelyn had the curse. And that's from Genitals Chapter 1 [laughter]. Read the 10 commandments. Coveting: Thou shalt not fancy your mate's sheila nor his frosties, his esky [laughter], his dingo or his sheep dip. Honouring parents: Look after the old folks and don't stick them in a clinic. So, Psalm 23. 1: The Lord is my stockman, so I'm alright sport. 2: he makes me down to sleep, he leadeth me beside the cool billabongs. 3: He restoreth my sheep. For yea though I go walkabout back of Burke I will fear no nasty for Art is with me, thy Rod and our Kev accompany me. So Rod and Kev being people. 5:... so instead of Thy rod and and staff accompany... 5: Thou preparest a tucker bag before me in the presence of some poms. Thou anointeth my head with Brylcream and my grog runneth over. And then I've got: What can one say except "Good night mate". Alright 10th of November 1981. It's 10:30pm and dad and I have just returned from a gruelling hour-long "stroll" along the "waterfront". Today it rained and thundered and stormed and walking along the beach in the tempest with the layers of clouds flying across the full moon, I felt like Cathy looking for Heathcliff. It was terrific. My gumboots got filled with water as we tried to make it around a little bluff. Dad was a little boy off in search of adventure. So this is 10:30pm. We've just come from... so we did a night walk: Safe! And especially, you know if there's enough water to fill my gumboots. Tonight Dad cooked me dinner. Yesterday, he'd been looking through his Women's Weekly cookbook and said he would do the meal. He kept it a big secret, went and got the ingredients today, and for about four hours was in the kitchen, whipping it up. As I read my book, I heard yells of "Wow. Aha. Alright!" And various whistles coming from the kitchen. It was hilarious. Then at approximately 8:30pm I was served up spaghetti marinara. It was so thoughtful of him. He said "Serve yourself! I thought you'd need a fix." And then I've got in brackets (I joked with dad before that I was addicted to spaghetti marinara and needed a fix once a fortnight). He said he couldn't get all fresh seafood. He had to get crumbed shrimps and wash the crumbs off. It was so sweet.
LILY 21:16
That is nice and thoughtful. Interesting. It's interesting. Me hearing, like, active him. Because I haven't really seen that, you know, really like I guess when I was little kind of but for like the last while he's always just been so quiet at family gatherings and not like active. So just even to hear him being loud in the kitchen and exclaiming and whistling and yeah, I don't know that person.
JENNY 21:46
Yeah, like I remember him. So like clapping his hands and like, "Oh-hoo", like this. I do remember this. And I remember being very touched that he'd washed off the crumbs. Yeah, to make this-
LILY 21:58
to make something that you liked and remembered what you said.
JENNY 22:00
Yeah, because around around this time, or maybe soon, I start counting the spaghetti marinara. I keep a tally. And my plan was to have the 100th in Rome. And dad remembers that, he mentioned it, you know, not so long ago. He said, did you ever get up to 100?
LILY 22:19
And you probably had 100 in your life by now?
JENNY 22:22
Oh, definitely. Definitely. But I stopped counting before I think
LILY 22:25
I didn't know it was this- In my memory spaghetti marinara has been a thing and you ordering spaghetti marinara a lot
JENNY 22:33
So I didn't know it goes right back. It started this early. Yeah, it goes right back 40 years of spaghetti marinara. But you're saying that you don't know this person? That's really interesting. Because as you were saying that, it reminded me of your father. And how when I knew him, he was a very different person to how he became, you know, as well.
LILY 22:58
And it's interesting, because that actually- that energy, say in the kitchen and cooking like that, that is very much baba. And that has been my experience, kind of. And I did see that. I think some of that lightness and some of that fun. And he still does have elements of that. But like, I think for certain people, and I think particularly certain kinds of men, it's like, life wears them down. And it's interesting to see that, because they're often very powerful people or particularly growing up they seem to be very powerful people, so it's kind of weird to get to an adult age and look at them and be like, Wow, you've been worn down by stress, or you'd be worn down by your life choices, and it's kind of has had an impact on you, you know,
JENNY 23:43
yeah. And there's a great but very sad, quote, something along the lines of "men live quiet lives of desperation", or something like that. I'll find it. I'll put it in the show notes I think it's a really sort of sad quotation.
LILY 24:00
It's yeah, because I definitely feel like that's true of baba. And the kind of life he's lived. Actually I've been thinking quite a lot about men lately, just because what they were talking about the other day, just watching Band of Brothers for the first time, which is a great show, and I loved and we binged it, it's first time I've binged something in so long, like we watched seven hours straight. And it really I think, and I studied a lot of World War Two history, and I've watched a lot of stuff. And I've read a lot of stuff, but this one just really carried home for me what an experience that was. What a traumatic experience that was for like certain countries for the majority of the men over a certain age, you either died or you experienced that and you came back home. And to kind of look at that, and to kind of be like, all the men that exist now have come from those men.
JENNY 25:08
And yeah, and not just all the men, all the women as well, with [inaudible] fathers, and partners.
LILY 25:16
Yep. And that, that we, I think, have not, we can talk about or we understand maybe generational trauma in terms of specific groups. So like, it's something that's very well acknowledged, with, say, the Jewish people from the Holocaust, that generational trauma and how that's carried on, or you know, people who've been through stuff like that, you know, specific groups. But I think in Western society, we don't really look at it as us and what our generational trauma is from that experience. Yeah I've been thinking a lot about that lately. And I find that very interesting. It's like, no wonder we have some real problems with anger. No wonder we have some real problems with expression, you know, to go through something like that, and then just be expected to assimilate into society with, like, just no support, and no help and no understanding that that has created how we are to this day, and I think is definitely added to a lot of our problems and our gender problems, you know, but, it's interesting, because I definitely agree with that quote, and definitely, to kind of just see how people used to be, and then kind of how they are now. And yeah, I can't think of any, say women in my life, who I feel like a similar thing has kind of happened to if that makes sense.
JENNY 26:34
Or a similar sort of trajectory or
LILY 26:38
change in person or, you know, and it's interesting, because like Gran has been through so much. But she, I think is the I still see her as such a vibrant person. And you've been through a lot and had a lot happen in your life, and I still see you as a very vibrant person that hasn't, you know, and I'm sure there's always changes because life impacts and affects us all and shapes us all.
JENNY 26:57
So the quote is from Henry David Thoreau, I wanted to say that was him but I wanted to check. "The mass of men lead lives of quiet desperation." So not quiet lives of desperation, lead lives of quiet desperation. You remember that movie Into the Wild? That was all- that character that- or that young man, because it was real, real story. He was inspired by this guy, Henry David Thoreau. So that whole film was like, based around these quotations and what he was reading, when he was reading this guy. Anyway, it's sad.
LILY 27:32
It is sad. And I think that maybe, you know, and obviously, women have to live with the choices that they've made and the decisions they've made. I'm not saying that women make good choices and decisions, and are good people. There's plenty of not good women out there. But I do wonder if like a big part of that I see with baba and potentially grandad is having to live with their choices and having to live with regret in a way that I don't see see you and like Gran maybe having to. Because I feel like a lot of your adversity or a lot of your difficulties in life have come from others, from the world, from things that you've had to deal with it. I see for Baba, it's a lot of his own creation. And you could very much argue that he could not be any other way because of his upbringing and what he experienced but a lot of it has come from him. And I would say maybe grandad in a similar way. A lot of it has maybe come from him. And I think that that's the thing that that would wear you down. Is that kind of knowledge.
JENNY 28:35
Yeah. Yeah. And I think, for me, our choices that we've made have hurt ourselves. Whereas our husbands, the choices that they've made have hurt others.
LILY 28:47
Yeah. Exactly.
JENNY 28:49
And I think it is gendered.
LILY 28:51
Yes. Yeah.
JENNY 28:53
Obviously a generalisation. But I think there's enough truth there for it to, you know, for you to be able to say, yeah, it's it's probably tends to be gendered. And it probably tends to be in that way, out- You know, it's like men with their anger often goes outwards, it hurts others, then they feel better. They throw it out. And I remember Baba saying that to me. He said, If I'm feeling bad, if I can put it onto someone else, then I feel better. It goes elsewhere. He knew- he knew of that as a mechanism.
LILY 29:23
Exactly. And there you go. And if you're still aware of that, and you're still doing it. That's a choice.
JENNY 29:27
And there'd be regret there
LILY 29:29
Yeah. Well, that's the thing. It goes elsewhere. But not really, you know. Not in the long term
JENNY 29:33
that's right. Because you're, you're left with the feelings that you've done that, with the knowledge that you've done that. But I think that it's- that often men aren't equipped, they're just not raised to connect with their feelings. And we've talked about this before. Women are encouraged to connect with every emotion except anger. Men are encouraged to *only* connect with anger as an emotion. And that's not you know, people might hear that and think, oh, yeah, no, I don't encourage my kid. Just think about the social reinforcements and the the social messaging that is subtle. It's subliminal and it's layered into every aspect of life
LILY 29:55
and more than anything else, sure you as a mother or you as a woman might not be doing that but what is your partner doing if if your partner's a man and how are both your children -- but particularly your sons -- what are they learning from that partner? And that's what it is. Like I think a lot goes into, yes active and aware parenting, but more than anything else, like kids just ape. What they see, they do. And the easiest way to do that is along gender lines, usually. So the girls in the family will look and follow the mum and you know, the boys, the dad, because it's the simplest way for little kids to kind of just, you know, to learn.
JENNY 30:50
I mean, learning works by observation at first and modelling
LILY 30:55
And babies, they're just watching everything. They're like, their eyes are so big and they're just watching. From that young of an age, they are learning. And we know this more than anything, is any change in this will have to come from men. Because if change could come from women in this area, it would've changed.
JENNY 31:11
Exactly. All right, let me finish this entry.
LILY 31:16
[Comic voice] Let me speak!
JENNY 31:17
"Let me speak to them!" "Serve yourself. I thought you'd need a fix." I'd joked with dad before that I was addicted to spaghetti marinara and needed a fix once a fortnight. He said he couldn't get all the fresh seafood da-da-da, washed the crumbs off. It was so sweet. Then we sat there drinking Claret by candlelight, listening to the thunder. It was great. So Claret, it was the red wine of the 80s
LILY 31:40
Wow, Claret. I've never- I've heard of it. But I thought it was something like Sherry. Like I thought it was- I didn't think it was wine
JENNY 31:48
No it's a wine and as heavy as fuck, I mean, probably even heavier than Cab. Sauv. And then, so I guess as time has gone on, as the decades have gone, the wine culture has really changed. It's become a culture. It wasn't the culture. And it used to be like the choices would have been Claret and there was Moselle which was a sweet white. And there was Chablis, which was a dry- more French, closer to maybe a Chardonnay but not that big, buttery Chardonnay. So, Moselle Chablis, Horton- or White Burgundy. They existed, but there was no Sauv. Blanc there was no Pinot Gris or Grigio and the Chardonnays maybe came a bit later in the 80s. I'm not sure. So this will be interesting to track the- there will be many many alcohol references! [Laughter]
LILY 32:44
[Laughter] That's so interesting, because it's definitely- because I see like Shiraz and Cab. Sauv. is like old people drinks
JENNY 32:52
Oh Shiraz as well?
LILY 32:54
I don't- look- sometimes if you're having like a big steak, and you're gonna spend some money, sure, a Shiraz.
JENNY 33:00
What do you have when you have a red? A pinot?
LILY 33:02
A pinot. Or a Tempranillo. Or a Grenache?
JENNY 33:06
Alright, yeah, going more to the Spanish.
LILY 33:08
I feel like that's, that's the very new shift of like, yeah, I would say people my age are drinking is a lot of Spanish.
JENNY 33:16
That's so interesting. Wow. This is how like, historiography of vino
LILY 33:22
Yeah we'll get contacted by like, you know, some people studying- wanting to use your journals,
JENNY 33:27
I thought you're going to say we'll get contacted by by wine vineyards
LILY 33:31
or that!
JENNY 33:31
To promote. And I'll say it right now. We will take sponsorship,
LILY 33:36
any sponsorships from any of the
JENNY 33:39
South Australian wineries, ah Victoria and Western Australia.
LILY 33:47
We're open for enquiries.
JENNY 33:49
Please email us. All right. So it was great. Today, I did quite a bit of work. So this is SWAT vac. I'm on SWAT vac,
LILY 33:58
so yeah, obviously you're just down there with grandad solo
JENNY 34:01
Just studying. Yeah me and him. Today I did quite a bit of work. We went to Leongatha for lunch at lunch Chinois. And to borrow Sue's tennis racket. I don't know who Sue is there. The country from Inverloch to Leongatha is superb. All the way there my wild mind was running away with me. I can't stop imagining things. If I could make a tape recording of my thoughts, I could write 10,000 novels each day. It's amazing. I think it's because I'm cramming info into my brain and demanding so much from it that it's reacting.
LILY 34:35
That's interesting like the brain is a muscle which I think about how much I used to use that muscle how much I used to put in there [laughter]. Like I just- so much brain fog. I do think that's lockdown stuff though
JENNY 34:51
But also you're not using it in the same way. Like I find now that I am using my brain now in a way that I wasn't 15, 20 years ago and I mean definitely I had a small child, things are very different at different stages of your life. But sometimes we can have that perception that it's a winding down as you get old and No. No, it's not. You can really train your brain back up. And I mean, there's all that stuff about the puzzles in the brain teasers to stave off off Alzheimer's and whatnot. Brain health is a really big thing. But I have noticed with myself that the more you use it, the more you can do with it. Definitely. And age is- forget age, forget it.
LILY 35:36
No, I completely agree. And I think that so easy to just let yourself slide into that kind of decline, particularly, my brain right now is, I'm just like a monkey doing admin, you know, with my job. I'm just an email router. And it's like, yeah, I'm a very smart person, I would say, I do say so myself. But like, it's just so interesting.
JENNY 35:59
you could be a Formula One driver, you can be a Hollywood star. And you can also be whatever you decide intellectually. [Laughter]
LILY 36:08
[Laughter] And wouldn't the greatest test of intelligence is to then go and be those things instead of just talking about it? [Laughter]
JENNY 36:15
That's the thing. Looking back from my aged perspective, you know, there are phases through life, there are phases. And what's brilliant for me is to have had this renaissance, or not even a renaissance, because I don't think I ever had a true period of myself at full power, full strength before. So it's not even a renaissance. So what would you call it?
LILY 36:42
A birthing?
JENNY 36:43
I don't know. But it's something where I am at, I feel like I'm now coming to my full power, and that's gendered as well, because women are often doing all the other stuff, dealing with a whole lot of other stuff before they can actually come into full force, or at all
LILY 37:00
and a lot of women then don't. And that's such a shame. And I think it is so interesting, I feel very lucky to have you have had and still have you as a role model on that. Like I remember in school, like comparing you to like, the mums of like my friends, and that they either weren't working or if they were working, it was in whatever job they could kind of get, so something shitty in admin because they've been out of the career- out of the workforce for so long. And then you were there writing your books and getting them published and doing your thing and going to book launches and going and, you know, you had a whole new kind of social group of like new writer friends, and you're just doing your thing. And that was so nice to be like, Yeah, your life doesn't end when you have children, doesn't end again, when they grow up. Like it that is actually the time like once they're in school. And, you know, if you've been that primary caregiver parent, again, it doesn't have to be gendered and it shouldn't be. But if that has been your role, then to start doing your stuff again, and hopefully you've never fully given that up throughout all of it.
JENNY 38:00
Yeah, stay connected with it, or find new things. Then the other thing too, is that when, and I know this with mum, when we all kind of grew up, left home, started our adult lives, I think she was quite bereft. And because her whole identity was predicated on mother and family
LILY 38:21
And that was such the time
JENNY 38:23
Well, yeah. We're in the space of giving advice, feminist advice. It's like, stay connected to your passions, or if you've never really had them, be curious about what might be there, but really have systems in place for if you do have children, when they do grow up when they leave, as they should, as is right as is healthy. They're not abandoning you, if you've got that strong kind of relationship.
LILY 38:50
And if you've got something to do
JENNY 38:54
You've got to have something to do that's for you.
LILY 38:58
Yep. I agree. It's actually yeah, it's quite interesting because this concept of the mother, as the primary caregiver, has always kind of been there but either lower class women were still working, and didn't really have the time to dote and do all- it wasn't like mothering as we know it. And everyone's just like kids were adults, kids working too, that was just kind of it, or with the upper classes, and nanny was doing it. And so this kind of concept of like, the really involved stay-at-home mother, it's such a kind of '50s thing. And kind of coming out of that. And, and, yeah, women are having to learn how to balance being a really good involved present mum, but then also being their own person. You know, and I don't think we've kind of done that before in history. It's like you've either not being involved at all or you being in like the 1950s Mum, where you're like, that's your whole life, and that's your whole identity. And so it's like this kind of mixing the two I think, are incredibly, incredibly hard, but I think yeah, it's, I don't know, I would hope to be able to be in the situation where, you know, when I have children, even if I am wanting to be the primary caregiver, that is like, still not without the support of whatever partner I'm with. And still with the understanding that that doesn't mean I have no time to myself, you know. And you're- either the other partner is willing to step in and give you that time, or they're willing to pay for you to have that time with some kind of babysitter or some kind of situation, you know,
JENNY 40:30
And it's better for you as a person, because, yeah, it is, you're an individual, it's your life. You get what you only get one. So, but then it's also better for the kids, as you said, you know, to have that to be able to look to their parents and see, especially their mothers, to see them not at a loss and, and not hanging on, you know, like, let them go. They have to, it's better for them. So to not to not be worrying about their mother, that their mother's going to be lonely, that their mother is sad, that the mother is like saying you never visit, you never this, you never that, I'm going to die alone. I'm going to you know, and there's a lot- there can be a lot of that goes on as well. That emotional manipulation. So not not okay. I'm gonna finish. [Laughter] Because I know we, you know, Joe Rogan Experience goes for three hours or something.
LILY 41:27
We don't want to be like him.
JENNY 41:29
I can't stop imagining things that's interesting to read that and that I could write 10,000 novels each day. That's interesting to me. I wouldn't have, yeah, thought that. That's surprising to read. Mum rang tonight and said, G'day. I've never been a person that's used G'day,
LILY 41:48
I think because you're spending a lot of time Grandad. [Laughter]
JENNY 41:50
[Laughter]. Maybe. And also having read the Rutledge, Monty Python thing. She said D, Dor rang to wish me good luck for exams. Also, there was a letter from New South Wales. I got her to open it. And it was a card from ______ wishing me luck for the exam. So that's _______'s brother. It's so nice of him. I'll write back and I also have to write to Mrs. ______ too. So that's _______ from Hong Kong's mother. I must go and read Pride and Prejudice for the fourth time. Lizzie and Mr. Darcy about to get it together! Jen X.
LILY 42:29
That's so funny you read it so many times. Is that because it was obviously text for school? I didn't read my texts four times.
JENNY 42:37
Yeah look at me. Trying to really, trying to really lift my game for year 12
LILY 42:42
On your B average.
JENNY 42:45
I don't want to be average. I don't want to be mediocre.
LILY 42:48
Mediocre! Yeah. Oh, good. It's nice that you're able to have that time down there with Grandad. I'm so mad Inverloch got sold.
JENNY 42:57
I know. Me too. I'm not sure he was there for the whole two weeks.
LILY 43:01
Sure. You might have been there by yourself for a bit.
JENNY 43:04
Yeah, we'll see, Yeah
LILY 43:06
We will see
JENNY 43:07
We will see. So. Fantastic. What've you got on for the rest of the day?
LILY 43:14
Well, I don't know. Do you want to walk?
JENNY 43:17
No, that's right. Yeah, let's walk. That'd be good. Continue our conversation. Let's talk for another hour and a half. Why not?
LILY 43:27
Yeah, I reckon we have a little walk. And then I might just take 10 minutes to hang some washing out. And I also busting for the loo because I did my water during that so I've got a litre of water in there.
JENNY 43:39
Just text me when you're ready. So let's sign off. Yeah. Thanks. Thanks for listening. subscribe, rate us
LILY 43:47
rate us
JENNY 43:48
Don't sure us.
LILY 43:49
Don't sue us. Yeah, subscribe, so you never miss another beautiful episode
JENNY 43:55
You don't want to lose track, you don't want to lose track
LILY 43:57
God forbid you miss a second of this. Something very important might be happening, we might say something and you'll just you'll never be able to catch up
JENNY 44:05
Other podcasts, it might not matter, the order in which you listen to them. But this one, it does matter. Because it is chronological.
LILY 44:14
This is true. You really got to get that chronological build up for the Adam Ant obsession, because if you were to just like jump right into the middle of it, you'd have no context. It makes no sense. Who is this crazy lady? But once you have the build up, you know,
JENNY 44:27
that's right. And just notice I didn't actually speak about Adam. Apart from the first bit
LILY 44:32
No you didn't. That was that was a that was a very restrained Happy Birthday, Adam. I thought it would be a whole page
JENNY 44:38
it was because it was just happy birthday, Adam and then I listed out the
LILY 44:42
you were distracted by Monty Python
JENNY 44:43
Monty Python thing. So maybe I'm
LILY 44:45
fickle!
JENNY 44:48
maybe or maybe it's starting to wane a little bit.
LILY 44:52
Maybe you know as as kind of real life and freedom approaches a bit more. It's like you got more to focus on
JENNY 44:59
Maybe thinking: Let me find a real boy. So yeah just another sign off to Adam's agent or indeed Adam himself, get in touch and then for Lily we need the Game of Thrones, D & D to get in touch for for a reckoning
LILY 45:17
Please report to the principal's office
JENNY 45:21
Because you are in trouble. You think you got away with it all this time later. No no no.
LILY 45:28
Literally they probably think the world has forgotten. I will not forget.
JENNY 45:31
Yeah. Liz and Gilderoy are watching. Liz and Hugh are watching
LILY 45:38
Interesting. I don't know if I want to do that. It's I don't know. I think I would rewatch my favourite- like the best episodes, the top rated episodes. I think I'd watch that. I don't know if I rewatch the whole thing because it is too painful for me. Literally putting all those hours in again, all that energy, hours so many hours, to that a second time around. Actually no, probably even more than that. I have rewatched parts like I've really watched quite a few of the seasons. You know, as new seasons were coming out. It's probably like for the fourth time around. No, not doing that. I will not give you the satisfaction Mr Men.
JENNY 46:14
I shouldn't have brought it up. [Laughter]
LILY 46:16
[Laughter]
JENNY 46:16
Nice to chat.
LILY 46:17
Good to chat. Bye,
JENNY 46:19
Bye.
LILY 46:24
Please hit the subscribe button so you won't miss out on any of our bad content. Don't forget to rate us at least one star and leave your scathing reviews wherever you find your podcast. That way we can bring our bad content to the rest of the world. Thanks for listening. And please don't sue us.
JENNY 46:42
Thanks for listening. And please don't sue us.
LILY 46:45
Yeah, don't sue us, please. It's rude.