SPEAKERS
LILY (the daughter), JENNY (the mother)
JENNY 00:00
This episode contains explicit language and is not suitable for younger audiences. We also talk a lot about Wuthering Heights. I mean, we really do go on
LILY 00:21
I've made myself some like really, I was like: Ah, a little snack. And then I realised that one-
JENNY 00:27
Crunch
LILY 00:28
And then this is like the crunchiest of snacks. It's Corn Thins, it's like oh, we can-
JENNY 00:36
very good
LILY 00:36
Do ASMR. Make millions
JENNY 00:40
What did you just say?
LILY 00:42
We could do ASMR? Make millions.
JENNY 00:45
Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah, I know what it is. [Deep throaty voice]: I know what it is.
LILY 00:52
I can just eat Corn Thins
JENNY 00:53
you can eat Corn Thins and I can pick my thumb, the skin around my thumb and do that kind of tap-tap-tap
LILY 01:00
Perfect. All our nervous tics are exposed
JENNY 01:04
and scratch my scalp skritch-skritch-skritch. So that could be what is it? AMSR what does it stand for again?
LILY 01:14
AMSR. AM I think... I should really find that out.
JENNY 01:19
We'll put it in the show notes!
LILY 01:20
Sensory... I reckon auto sensory. Munching
JENNY 01:26
No.
LILY 01:27
Recording. I'm joking. No,
JENNY 01:32
And I don't think it's Auto because that suggests the self and it's someone else like it's, it's coming from someone else not yourself. That's what the-
LILY 01:43
Auditory auditory sensory something
JENNY 01:50
response I will put it in the show notes. Because, I mean, there are lots of people who will know off the top of their heads. But as we have stated, we don't know a lot of stuff. [Laughter]
LILY 02:03
We barely know anything
JENNY 02:04
Oh no, we know- we do know a lot but we're not always going to be accurate on this show.
LILY 02:11
Yeah, don't come here for accuracy. Come here for crunching and that's about it.
JENNY 02:16
And head scratching.
LILY 02:17
Picking
JENNY 02:18
ASMR
LILY 02:20
Do you like my setup? I look so much more professional, not hunched. Slouched over.
JENNY 02:24
Oh you do! You're out of bed. Are you at your desk?
LILY 02:26
I know. She has legs
JENNY 02:28
And there's your green puffy
LILY 02:30
yeah, so all my stuff hanging
JENNY 02:32
Yeah, no, that's much better. It'll be better for your posture to
LILY 02:37
Yeah, I am liking just having a desk. It's good for meetings and stuff. Before I was pretending I wasn't in bed.
JENNY 02:45
And how did you do that? Like it was posture adjusted?
LILY 02:49
And if like because I don't have a bed head so if I just don't have pillows behind me if I've got a little cushion that they can't see I'm just up against a wall you know? Yeah. Anyway,
JENNY 02:59
The peregrine falcons are starting too
LILY 03:02
Oh, starting back, cause that was all last year, wasn't it?
JENNY 03:05
It was so I've written down the significant dates. So when that's last year the YouTube went live on the 21st of August. The eggs were laid the 25th, 27th and 29th of August so they obviously know roughly, yeah they're in there. All eggs hatched 2nd of October all chicks fledged 13th of November and that just made me cry! I know maybe I'll follow them this time as well Mum's, I think mum will be on and should let _______ know again. She can watch from her boat.
LILY 03:40
Yeah, she can just tune in
JENNY 03:43
Falcon watch
LILY 03:45
This is one of like the more, one of the really nice nice things that the city does.
JENNY 03:53
Yeah. Yeah, it's fantastic. I sent mum a link to this river in Alaska. That's got- it's a live cam, bears and you can see the salmon jumping up upstream. It's amazing.
LILY 04:13
Crazy. And then the bears there to catch it.
JENNY 04:16
Yeah, the bears are there eating some salmon hanging hanging out in the water. It's amazing.
LILY 04:22
Like yeah, yeah, it's it's so interesting because I feel like there's such a desire to experience and like view nature and this kind of like, real time cameras is so different from say watching a documentary, it feels so much more immediate and so much closer.
JENNY 04:43
Did you ever do that window watch last year
LILY 04:45
I was obsessed with the penguins. Oh the windows? No I was penguin girl
JENNY 04:50
Penguins. I don't think I watched the penguins.
LILY 04:52
The Melbourne Zoo had set up all these chambers for a couple of months. I checked them every single morning. Very grounding and helpful during probably the hardest time of last year I was watching the penguins. And it just took me out of myself, just like five minutes after horrible stuff kind of was like these really sweet birds.
JENNY 05:15
Made you feel happy. So yeah, so window swap was really good. It's not live, they're recordings. Some are short, some are longer, but all the windows around the world, like people just their view from lockdown.
LILY 05:29
I think I didn't want to do that because I think it just would have made me want to, like feel trapped rather more. I think that's why I avoided it. But yeah, you showed me later and it's very interesting. Yeah, there was that was one of the pyramids, which is there.
JENNY 05:43
Yeah, one of the pyramids just outside the apartment window. There was one with a garden with a pond and this fox came through. And then there was another one with deer. Deer de came through. Beautiful, beautiful stuff. There was one in Central or southern South America with the sort of this music someone's playing music in their apartment. And it's just this view out the window, and lovely plants and things. People passing by on the street. Yeah, I haven't checked [for a while]
LILY 06:16
I wonder if it's still going probably.
JENNY 06:18
I'm sure it it. I'll put the links
LILY 06:23
[Laughter] in the show notes.
JENNY 06:26
All right, back to us.
LILY 06:28
Well, shall we launch into it?
JENNY 06:30
Yeah, let's launch
LILY 06:32
Cool.
JENNY 06:32
I've got PONY. I forgot PONY last time. So I've got PONY. And I'm also I'm stopping milk again because I'm all getting snuffly. And clearing my throat a lot more again.
LILY 06:45
RIght. It is the milk. So you started doing milk again?
JENNY 06:49
Yeah.
LILY 06:50
Why?
JENNY 06:51
Because I like I like it! With the new machine and frothing the milk. Like a nice milky coffee. But, that's it. I'm stopping that again. Because I'm getting all nasally...
LILY 07:02
Interesting. Yeah, cause have I, did I tell you that I was getting these like itchy things? Like a little bit hivey?
JENNY 07:10
No.
LILY 07:11
Oh, yeah, it was happening last week. I haven't really had it this week. It was just like on like, along here, my face and then my arms, but nothing particularly raised or bumpy. I was just itching. And then there was maybe a little bit of small things here. Like red patches.
JENNY 07:28
A different face product?
LILY 07:29
No, I haven't changed anything in my routine or anything like that. And I stopped everything and it's happened a few times, so I'm tracking my food to try to figure out especially if it was chocolate. I thought it was wine, but it wasn't consistently in and it was always in the evenings. And one night was quite bad. And ________ me an anti-histamine and that helped. So like it was something and but then the common things were gluten and dairy... interestingly
JENNY 07:55
Cheese?
LILY 07:56
Yeah, it was. Dairy. Like milk. I'm having more milk.
JENNY 08:00
Ah right. Well, that's it. What are you having the milk in?
LILY 08:04
I've been having porridge. And so I'm wondering if it's that.
JENNY 08:08
You could try some almond, remember back on the almond milk or?
LILY 08:12
Yeah, my only issue with almond milk it it, well maybe if I'm having it regularly it wouldn't be a problem. But it goes off so quickly.
JENNY 08:19
Yeah, you can't get a small container.
LILY 08:21
Yes. Or unless you can buy small little like, small ones like that.
JENNY 08:25
But they're flavoured aren't they?
LILY 08:27
No, I've had the non-flavoured. So I've done that before, but only sometimes the supermarket has them, only than they like, you know, so it's just a bit of a thing. What about oat milk or something else? I mean, you don't want to have Soy's not good?
JENNY 08:40
Not not too much soy. It's, I think it's not good for hormones
LILY 08:46
Hormones. Everything is not good. It's almost like we're living in an artificial world and is negatively impacting
JENNY 08:53
Everything in moderation. I guess. And moderation is not having it every day. So-
LILY 08:57
But I wasn't having it every day. But yeah, it's interesting.
JENNY 09:01
Let's go. Alright, so last last time, I thought was, what do we do last time? Just sort of day-to-day stuff oh and period stuff and discovering the vagina. That was a big day! It was Yeah. Okay. Ninth of March 1981. Monday. Today was Labour Day holiday. And we went and did some work. We went and did some work for dad at St Kilda Road. He took us to Moomba for lunch. Exciting.
LILY 09:31
What's Moomba? Was it just a cafe? Do you remember it?
JENNY 09:35
What's Moomba? Was that just a cafe? No Moomba, the Moomba parade and the Moomba carnival?
LILY 09:42
Oh, Moomba! Yeah.
JENNY 09:44
You know, Moomba. I do know Moomba. We took you- 'A cafe'. Cute!
LILY 09:51
Yeah. You didn't say Oh, it's the festival you know?
JENNY 09:57
So we obviously went across for some crap food for lunch. I'm in bed at the moment, and I've just completed the masterpiece Overleaf, it's called colour original. And let me show you.
LILY 10:10
Oh, yes, it's very expressive.
JENNY 10:17
Oh no it's just bullshit doodles. Original Guess what? Today was my first day completely using tampons, BIG DEAL in big painted black letters. So wow, it was really big thing. I felt like being Little Miss capital letters written in black paint squeezed out of the tube directly onto the page in inverted commas. Well, it was quite exciting. For me, it means liberation. Today, Dad and I talked briefly about our trip. And he said he'd like to spend 10 weeks abroad: one travelling, three in England and Scotland, three in France and three in the rest of Europe, ie Germany, Greece, Italy, etc. Ending in Greece flying to Australia from there. Should be fantastic. Three exclamation marks. I think I'll say Bonsoir and A Bien Tot, and sign off for tonight and read All the King's Men. Jenny.
LILY 11:17
See like, if he had just either not over-promised or actually delivered, like, how different could like your relationship and perspective of him and everything be?
JENNY 11:31
Yeah. I mean, the fact that there were these detailed conversations.
LILY 11:35
Yeah. Not just like, oh, maybe we'll go Yeah. But like really specific. Like, I wonder if that was really the intention for it to happen. And then something?
JENNY 11:46
Yeah. I know, I [laughter] who the fuck knows?
LILY 11:51
I think often these people, they like they believe it. They want, they they also like, they want to be that person that would go do that. And take their daughters, you know
JENNY 12:02
Just to all the fathers out there. And mothers. Parents.
LILY 12:06
Parents, yeah,
JENNY 12:07
Uou know, don't make promises you can't keep, that you can't keep, because kids remember. And it really, it damages trust, and it damages trust in the world. And then they carry that. And then with future people, friends, you know, partners, it's just like, it just means you can't trust the world. And I mean, you know, the parents should be the one that you trust the most.
LILY 12:32
Yeah. And that you can depend on the most. So when they say a thing's gonna happen, it's gonna happen. And then the few times that maybe it doesn't is because of something outside of their control, and they tried their hardest...
JENNY 12:41
kids will understand that.
LILY 12:42
Yeah.
JENNY 12:42
And that's how you learn about the world. I'm not saying promise everything and deliver on everything. Because kids need to learn. We all need to learn that.
LILY 12:51
But just don't promise and not deliver
JENNY 12:55
Yeah. Just be careful about it, be restrained.
LILY 13:00
I was just gonna say, I also think that people can kind of get caught up in their, like, kind of ego of how they view themselves. And so they want to be that parent, they want to be that person. But then they just don't have like the follow through to do it. Either the means or like, the commitment, whatever it may be. So it's like they're living in that fantasy of, they're also living that that thing's gonna happen, you know?
JENNY 13:26
Yeah, but they can't make it happen or whatever. So again, don't just don't make promises you can't keep I think is a good standard.
LILY 13:35
Yeah, I agree.
JENNY 13:36
I mean, do you feel that I
LILY 13:39
No. I can't really imagine one time. Or, I can't remember one time that I felt you promised something and didn't deliver. But like, it's so interesting, because it's not like I can even recall a time when you promised and did deliver. It's like the positives, you don't remember, that's just your life. It's always the negatives that stand out. So it's not like not not something that's kind of in my emotional landscape at all. In that way, whereas Baba, I'm still waiting for that, you know, red Lexus convertible, I was promised when I was four [laughter]
JENNY 14:13
Oh the Lexus. Oh god.
LILY 14:15
You know, like just those little things. You know, he's very similar in that way. He'll say a lot of stuff but in some ways he has probably delivered more in a way.
JENNY 14:25
Than Rog.
LILY 14:26
Yeah, but yeah there's been a lot of... plans
JENNY 14:30
Well, you know, it's not over yet. You might get your Lexus.
LILY 14:35
I know. I'm still waiting.
JENNY 14:38
Yeah, I remember when he came back from, he came before we bought the Rav. So this is 2000- or '99. He came out and had come from America, and he was just all about the Lexus. And that actually makes sense. So you were four, he was all about the Lexus. But of course they're like really expensive here but he was just talking about all these Lexuses over in the States. And then we got the Rav4 which was the next-
LILY 15:04
Not a Lexus.
JENNY 15:07
Not a Lexus, but a very good car and here you are still driving it all these years later
LILY 15:14
Yes, served us well. And that's like, with when you think about the amount of like wear and tear that has been done on that car from all the carpets and all of the road trip? The weight. The this the that. I know it's it's doing pretty well considering.
JENNY 15:30
I remember early on when we got that, and he he had this Turkish friend can't remember his name. But you didn't like him. Like he was a really nice guy, but you didn't like him because he looked like a witch, like his face was very scary. And I remember you didn't like him, because he made you scared. And he'd probably come up to you and go: Hello, hello, Lily. And he just had these sort of like, witch-like features, there's no, there's no way around it. A big nose and a big chin. Anyway, he came over and ______ was doing some sort, of had already carpets out here, and was doing some sort of carpet shows up in... they went to Sydney or something and this is when were in the in the flat in St Kilda. Anyway, Hey, they drive off in the Rav. And it's quite a new car. And when they got back, in addition to the speeding fines and whatnot that came through through the mail later, and _______ told me that he'd been sleeping, _______ had been driving during a section and he kind of woke up the car was going really, really fast like 180 or 220. And he looks at ______ and he's like, What are you doing? And ______ says: I'm praying and so he went into some sort of meditative thing while he was driving the car. And and I remember thinking, Oh my God, and like he slammed on the brakes and whatever. And that was fine. There was no accident or incident. But I remember thinking, Oh, God even just going that fast, wouldn't be good for the car.
LILY 17:13
No, no, exactly.
JENNY 17:17
'I'm praying'. Because he was quite religious.
LILY 17:21
Right. Interesting. I have no memory of him, how old? I would have been what for?
JENNY 17:24
Yeah, like you're around four and I don't know that you said I don't like him because he looks like a witch. Or that was my interpretation because he did look witch, but you didn't like him? And you found him scary. Oh, and that maybe that's around the time that you had those dreams or fantasies that there was a witch hovering outside your window? Remember when you were little and you said there was a witch hovering outside your room?
LILY 17:49
Oh yeah, I remember that very clearly.
JENNY 17:51
So that was around that time so maybe he made you worried about witches.
LILY 17:58
Interesting.
JENNY 17:59
The other thing around that time and it was ______ when around the time that _____ was out maybe the first time I think Mum had been living with us in St Kilda and I was sleeping in the sunroom you know, the orange room? And we went up to Canberra and then ____ kind of came and flew into Canberra and picked you up and drove you, took the Rav and drove you
LILY 18:19
And I was so upset.
JENNY 18:20
Yeah. But anyway, around that time, I had sort of somehow, I was like wanting spells. I just wanted help with healing. And I think I looked up either on the internet
LILY 18:32
Have you just been like a secret witch this whole time?
JENNY 18:34
No, no I'm not a witch
LILY 18:35
Yeah, but you put _______ and whatever in the freezer. Like this is not the first time you've been doing stuff.
JENNY 18:42
No, butI heard about that back in Istanbul before you were born from ______ and she really, she told me about putting people in the freezer. She did it to a guy that was working at Canadian Airlines. And it worked really well for her. So she just she told me about that. But then _______ recently refreshed me my memory. Iust have been talking about you. Does he know that yet?
LILY 19:10
No. So he'll find out in about two months. [Laughter]
JENNY 19:18
He's over and he's making a drink and he gets the ice out of the freezer and the photo of him falls out!
LILY 19:26
Oh no it's just my mum hates you. And he's just like: What the fuck?
JENNY 19:30
Well, you know, it's so interesting because what- how the hell would have all this unfolded if he *wasn't* in the freezer. That's what I want to know
LILY 19:38
That's a really good point. Did you take him out of the freezer?
JENNY 19:41
No, he's still in there.
LILY 19:42
Oh, well, that didn't help. It hasn't- Well, imagine taking out the freezer and suddenly, like we're getting married in a month. So maybe this is-
JENNY 19:49
That's what I'm trying to say like, it's like this is SLOW. [Laughter] Anyway, I want to say that I had these spells written, I'd sort of just written down these spells and was just about maybe a spell for attraction. Maybe there was someone that I had a crush on, a spell for healing a broken heart or something like that. And I remember just writing them down. And then I remember later thinking, Oh, because _______ stayed there.
LILY 20:13
Oh did they?
JENNY 20:14
And she would have fucking snooped everywhere, as would I have in that situation
LILY 20:19
I think some people aren't like that. I'm just saying
JENNY 20:24
Don't you think most people are snoopy?
LILY 20:26
I think, to be honest, I would say I'm on, I have the tendency to be a bit snoopy. But I, a lot of times things don't cross my mind. Like I'm never gonna, you know, like, I would never snoop in people's rooms here. I would never
JENNY 20:42
Oh, no, I've never done that. Like, I do draw the line
LILY 20:45
But the thought hasn't even crossed my mind.
JENNY 20:49
No, no, no, I would never do that. But I have snooped on partners, into their private stuff in the past
LILY 20:56
I never have
JENNY 20:57
But never with ______.
LILY 20:58
Well, yeah because there'd be nothing, you'd open his bedside table drawer and it's empty. Like a book about football
JENNY 21:05
His drawer is filled with coins and receipts and bullshit phone chargers.
LILY 21:10
Yes. Cords.
JENNY 21:11
No, I, because he's never given me cause to. I mean, I will say that the people that I've snooped on in the past. There was cause.
LILY 21:19
There's been that lack of trust
JENNY 21:20
Yeah. I don't think that yeah, I don't think it's just me in me naturally. Although I am a detective
LILY 21:25
You are a detective, but so you had all your stuff still in there. Also, how long have you and Baba been separated for or divorced for when this was happening? It's not normal to like, come stay with your ex wife with your new girlfriend. I'm just gonna put that out there.
JENNY 21:41
Yeah, no, no, I wasn't there while they were staying there.
LILY 21:45
Ah, yeah.
JENNY 21:46
I never share a space with _______.
LILY 21:48
Where were we?
JENNY 21:49
I don't know. Yeah, I don't. Where were we? Canberra. Or then I maybe because then that's right. Then I came back and they went down to Barwon Heads. So ______ would come and stay with you and me. But not, not with the girlfriends. Not with ______. I barely crossed paths with her. Anyway, what I'm trying to say is that I wonder whether they saw these spells and said to you, your mother's a witch. And then you started dreaming about a witch hovering outside your window?
LILY 22:27
Yes, I- I don't remember them ever saying that to me. Yeah, I also remember that time. Didn't we watch Spirited Away?
JENNY 22:40
Probably around that time.
LILY 22:44
Also that had a big witch and
JENNY 22:46
Oh, yes. And she actually looked like _______. [Laughter]
LILY 22:50
Right. So obviously there's a lot of witches in my life at that time.
JENNY 22:53
Yeah, that was his face.
LILY 22:56
Right. Interesting.
JENNY 22:57
We're definitely gonna block him out
LILY 23:00
Interesting.
JENNY 23:01
_______ suggested that we give, I give pseudonyms to certain people that recur. So instead of bleeping out, I mean, Mum and Dad, I can't really get away from it, but definitely with siblings
LILY 23:17
And I'll try think of one for _____. Yeah, well, maybe I could just do______ . Like, I guess anyone who knows me.
JENNY 23:26
I think a name is good though. Because then it builds a character. It's a story. They're part of the story,
LILY 23:34
Maybe I'll call like ______ like Bjorn or something like from ABBA
JENNY 23:38
Call him Bjorn. And then _______ could be
LILY 23:43
Seth, you know, like, Seth _______ Yes! like it. Okay, cool. Bjorn and Seth.
JENNY 23:48
[Laughter] Fantastic. All right. So PS, the final episode of Wuthering Heights was on last night. It was sad, but I enjoyed the series. Goodnight.
LILY 24:02
Oh, series. I haven't seen a series of that
JENNY 24:04
Oh there's been many, many Wuthering Heights, oh maybe not mini series. But yes.
LILY 24:11
It's very Yeah, I think for me, going from Bjorn to Seth, in terms of my emotional landscape. You know, it's, it's, even though things have been very intense at times. With you know, my current situation, but like, I would say for the past, like two months, it's been like the most chill and calm situation I've ever experienced, you know
JENNY 24:40
With a man? With a partner?
LILY 24:41
Yeah, yeah. You know, it's the closest to kind of me being single, if that makes sense, which is, I think, in some ways, my natural state. So you know, a relationship that makes me feel the most like I do, when I'm solo is probably, yes, my my happy-. You know, my In a happy middle ground, my
JENNY 25:01
Your sweet spot.
LILY 25:01
Yeah exactly,
JENNY 25:02
You, the closest of you being you?
LILY 25:05
Exactly, yeah. But I also think more than anything at the end of the day with anything in life, you have to be ready for it. And so, you know, if you're not ready for peace, even if it comes to you, in a beautiful package of a person. But if you're not looking for and if that's not what you want, then there's like, you really can't do anything about that. Like that. You can make smart choices and you can do your best. But at the end of the day, I do kind of feel like you like, you're kind of not. I don't know, it's hard. I definitely fluctuate between feeling like you're very much in control of every facet of your life. And also feeling like you're not at all in control, and you're just on this path and things just happen. And it changes day to day kind of which, which I'm subscribing to more. But I do think like there comes a point like even just say, with, oh I need to think of a name for _______.
JENNY 26:00
What's a witchy name?
LILY 26:02
Beatrice?
JENNY 26:03
Endora?
LILY 26:04
Endora [laughter] I don't like Endora. I know her middle name's rose. Yeah, Rose. Maybe I'll call her Rose. Like she'll know.
JENNY 26:16
Or it could be Samantha from Bewitched.
LILY 26:21
No I'll do rose. Anyway. So talking to Rose about kind of her situation. Yeah, you might know what you should do what you think is smart. But end of the day, you're gonna stop like, wanting to see that person? No, you have to like let things run their course. And I do kind of just believe that you got to let things happen until Yeah. Hmm. Okay, Seth just messaged me being like, also how you feeling down there? Because I think I'm thrushy. Fuck
JENNY 26:48
In his vulva?
LILY 26:49
Yeah in his little vulva. No in his penis. [Laughter]
JENNY 26:53
I'm writing a list of our pseudonyms. How are you feeling down there?
LILY 26:57
I'm feeling fine. But it's so funny. Because when I first told him and was like mum said that guys can also get thrushy he kind of poo pooed it a little bit, but it was like, you know, but if you want me to take it, I'll do it. And I was like, Look, I've only got three pills at this stage. And I probably need to take it more than you. I'm not gonna waste one on you kind of thing yada, yada. And then he did a bit more research and was like, Oh, yeah, like it is. And then now
JENNY 27:20
I'll take an apology, Seth, via email. And I'll put it in the show notes. Okay, that's interesting. Well, you know, maybe TMI, but I know that. Yeah no, we'll get to it in the diaries. I won't say it now.
LILY 27:37
Anyway, I don't know what we were rambling about. But
JENNY 27:40
Alright, let's, we've only read a page. Let's push on. The 29th day of the third month 1981. I haven't written in here for ages. And I feel guilty. Francis, so this is from the SCee, see family, just called up here for a visit. And we had a good chat. We're going to the pictures on Friday to see the Rocky Horror Picture Show, it should be good. He's leaving to America on the 17th and may be away for three months touring America and Canada.
LILY 28:10
Cool because he's quite a bit older, isn't he? Than you
JENNY 28:12
Yeah he's about, I think he would have been, what, six years, seven years older than me.
LILY 28:18
So he would have been like, 25 ish.
JENNY 28:22
And it's really funny when we think about me being 10 and him being 16 or 17. And we used to dress up and go up to Mr. Smith's
LILY 28:29
It would not happen now. It would just not.
JENNY 28:33
No it wouldn't happen now. But it was just so, it was always so-
LILY 28:37
You guys were just having fun.
JENNY 28:39
Always so aboveboard, like, never any anything that was not just friends hanging out?
LILY 28:46
Well, it's so interesting, because it's like, you know, if you were to say take the situation these days, that would be huge warning signs for a lot of parents. Okay, this 16, 17 year old guy hanging out with a 10 year old girl. Huh, what? You know, but then here you you had the the two brothers, you know
JENNY 29:04
That's right, close in age,
LILY 29:05
Close in age, and that would be normal and natural, but they were the problems, whereas this guy a lot older wasn't and so you can't judge on the face of it, you do have to try and test, I guess, and get a sense of people as people and whether you kind of trust them or not in that way, but
JENNY 29:21
and I think parents should ask their kids. Like, if someone had said to me, so you know, _____'s a bit older than you. But you hang out a lot. You know, how do
LILY 29:32
you feel when you hang out? Yeah, how do you feel? Do you feel, are you comfortable with that? Like, I mean, I would even say like if it was me, Has he ever talked, you know, like talk to you or do you think: Has there ever been anything romantic? You could just use the word 'romantic' and it's not too leading, it doesn't put thoughts in their heads, but you know, I mean, I never had a crush on him. Never No. You guys were maybe doing stuff that was more like dress-ups and
JENNY 30:00
So yeah he was like a girlfriend. So we would dress-up, we would put on plays, like, you know, yeah, I felt like hanging out with a friend my own age, and we'd sort of do dress ups and we'd muck around, you know, record on the tape recorder and we'd got to the milk bar and terrorise them and
LILY 30:17
Mr. Smith,
JENNY 30:18
and we'd play tennis on the road and we'd ride around on our bikes. We built cubbies we put on plays. Yeah.
LILY 30:26
So it, sounds it's quite interesting, because it really sounds like both of you just really... Yeah, enjoying childhood. And even though he was a bit older. Often in our lives, it's like, we kind of stop doing those things. So you know, when you become a teenager, it's nice to be around kids again and have that experience.
JENNY 30:45
And it was funny. Like, we would laugh so much. So he's, he's like, the first person that in my life, if we're looking at the, the laugh history, he was the first person that would just make me laugh so much.
LILY 31:02
And that's the thing. Humour transcends age. It really does, you know, I mean, like, if you can get along and laugh with someone, it just genuinely doesn't matter. You know, it's just that's the connecting point.
JENNY 31:14
So we found the same things funny we had about jokes that we skipped over, when you read that first episode, poodle on the string, you know, that I mean, even now, I could say to him poodle on a string, and he would know instantly what that means. He's got a really good memory for all that sort of stuff as well. And if I went 1-2-3, he'd know that I'm talking about the musk sticks, and Mr. Smith. And for years, we'd sort of do Christmas cards for each other, building all these jokes. So he draw little pictures of Mr. Smith and musk sticks and wh-one, twh-o
LILY 31:54
[Laughter] But I'm kind of saying, and this is obviously in a much healthier way to say Cathy and Heathcliff, but it's that shared history and like, you know, someone they experienced that with you. And I think that's very important in life. And that's what friendship is. And that's what family relationships are and like, you know, I feel like our family has so many jokes that are in kind of buried in whatever experiences that now I'm kind of the second generation of and have grown up with. And it's interesting, say talking to Seth about it. And kind of, we'd watch a movie or like, we're watching West Wing, and I was like, yeah, in the credits, like, we go, you know, SCHIFFY!
JENNY 32:35
DULAY! SCHIFFY!
LILY 32:39
Things like that where it's just like, I don't, I don't know, it's just people having fun together, which is nice. Yeah. I was explaining to him HOT PROPERTY. He was like what?
JENNY 32:52
[Laughter] I was explaining hot property to someone recently too. And in fact, so ______ that was saying that her two kids were talking about it recently. And the older one was explaining to the younger one what hot property was! I think they were working out when when the Olympic Games are going to be up in Brisbane, and people have been trying to have been working out how old they're going to be. And a lot of young people
LILY 33:24
Yes, we've had that conversation.
JENNY 33:26
And I remember working out how old I was going to be in 1999, horrified by how old I was going to be. And I was only going to be, I was only 36 or something like so. Yeah, that was hot property.
LILY 33:43
I'm gonna be 36 when they come here!
JENNY 33:46
Oh, my God
LILY 33:47
Interesting. See that? Doesn't seem that far. It does. Well, it's less than- Marilyn Monroe died at 36 years Well it's less, it's 11 years actually. Interesting. But does that mean that I'm I'm gonna go I think we should call if we call _____ Ellis is that too... or did you have
JENNY 34:08
No call him Ellis because that's his middle name Yeah, but we can't do Rose for ______
LILY 34:13
Oh, whoops. Or unless we change, uh... What will _____ be?
JENNY 34:20
What's ______ going to be? [Laughter]
LILY 34:22
Um, I want him to be like, like, you know how he dressed up as Gilderoy Lockhart. He could be Gilderoy [laughter].
JENNY 34:33
[Laughter]
LILY 34:33
Cause he just kind of reminds me of him
JENNY 34:35
Yeah. Or, Hugh. For Hugh Grant.
LILY 34:38
Oh, yeah, Hugh. Yeah, Hugh's good. Hugh's probably easier.
JENNY 34:42
Hugh's better. _____ could be Ivy as in plants.
LILY 34:46
Oh, yeah. Ivy is nice.
JENNY 34:48
Let's call her Ivy for now.
LILY 34:50
So does that mean that Ellis didn't know about hot property and Ivy was explaining it to him?
JENNY 34:54
Yeah. And I think they're were saying: We're gonna be hot property.
LILY 35:00
Well, they will be compared to me.
JENNY 35:02
Yeah. So you're 36 And they'll be 29 and 28 or something
LILY 35:06
Yeah, yeah. God, that's so funny.
JENNY 35:08
It is so funny.
LILY 35:11
But yeah, it's also just interesting. Describing the jokes to people out of context, and when they don't have that history, and they're just like, Okay, I guess that's funny. And you're like, you had to be there. But I do think in-jokes... or not in-jokes but family jokes are a sign of a, you know, a close, strong family who enjoys spending a lot of time together,
JENNY 35:33
And that is bonding. And other families do bond through trauma and disruption and pain and chaos. And that's a negative bonding. It's not a positive thing, but it's like it's a that shared experience. And they can't sort of operate without that. And we can't operate without our jokes and our kind of-
LILY 35:53
Interesting, because it's like, yeah, I definitely find that when that kind of I guess, I just like using the word negative because it's not to you know, dismiss what that bonding and how you know, those people can still be very very strong in a family but when that kind of yeah traumatic bonding has happened it's like then everything kind of exists in the past I feel like, like I've experienced that even though Baba is very like, you know, to the future, to the future, the future, he's still so obsessed with the past and it's like, for as long as that kind of that trauma has bonded you, you're always going to be looking back to the past with that person, if that makes sense. It's very hard to kind of leave that behind, you know.
JENNY 36:40
Right, so back to Francis. Be interesting to hear all about it. He said he'll go to Europe with me, hope we do it. It would be great fun. So funny. We just laugh we have so many things in common we also fight too, but nothing serious. That's interesting. I don't remember fighting. I feel guilty because I barely worked this weekend. What I did Friday night, went to Camberwell with Dor (this one's going to be Dor)
LILY 37:08
We will need to create a list so I can also have it just in case I get confused who your're saying. We should have done this from the start. It's going to be a bit confusing.
JENNY 37:18
Doesn't matter because so far there's I mean, the characters will be emerging from sort of this point. So _____ and I went to Camberwell with Dor, had dinner and went shopping. Saw two beautiful shirts in Trade Winds, $19 each, and I don't remember Trade Winds but I would guarantee it'd be like an Ishkar'y-type place so
LILY 37:39
you're all about those Ishka clogs.
JENNY 37:41
I was all about- and the thick wool socks. Yeah, Saturday morning shopping with mum to Camberwell to get two shirts for $35, a coat or sorry two shirts, and $35 coat at and then I've got question mark, can't remember shop. If it's the coat I'm thinking of, it was maybe Witchery or Sportsgirl. I had this fabulous coat around this time like a swing coat, and it was black cord and it had that swing shape.
LILY 38:13
silhouette
JENNY 38:13
and the lining was green and it was possibly reversible. Like kind of a sage green lining. Expression essay in afternoon; fell asleep for three to four hours in afternoon, waste of time. I should have been working.
LILY 38:27
I don't think I've ever really napped. I've had a lie down from being like so exhausted before I have to like go out for the night but I don't think I've ever *napped* 3 or 4 hours [laughter] in my life
JENNY 38:37
And that time at the beach where I had the five-hour nap.
LILY 38:41
It was so interesting. I don't see you as a napper really
JENNY 38:45
Went to Nim's for photo night. For photo night, had a great time, we looked at photos for ages, ate Caramello chocolates and Toblerone and then painted pictures till 1.30 to 2am. Went to sleep at 3:30am Got up Sunday morning, mum picked me up. We went home. Jim had a little wargaming session, rang dad about softball championship, had three quarters hours to do homework, finished expression politics essay, went to softball avec dad, 23 and a half innings, went for over three hours between Vic-
LILY 39:21
So you were playing? No you just went to watch to watch
JENNY 39:24
between Victoria and South Wales. In the end proclaimed a draw. Too tired to go on now. Good night, Friday the 17th of April 1981. Today I had originally planned to sleep in and generally recuperate before getting stuck into my work. I woke up at 8.20 and decided that I should work, so I did nine and a half hours of geography from 8:30am to 6pm. Fun. Why am I doing that in April? I got a phone call from ______ today. It was fantastic to hear from her. So this is my school friend, my best friend from primary school. She's still living at the same place and she said she'll drop in on her way to the Ashburton Library. It should be good to see her. Tonight. I went over to Dor's place for dinner, and then in brackets tuna casserole. It was the first time I had eaten tuna casserole since mum cooked hers which was disgusting, in brackets.
LILY 39:36
I LOVE tuna casserole.
JENNY 40:17
This tuna casserole was delicious. No crunchy bits but you see mum put, there were crunchy bits of bone but surely not tuna. That makes me think of salmon. That it was a salmon mornay.
LILY 40:37
Yeah, why? I remember being obsessed as a kid with the tins of salmon and the bones. I love the bones.
JENNY 40:43
I know. Well, I didn't. And I remember trying to eat it. Not wanting to, spitting it out and dad getting angry. Oh, really? That's one of my food-dad-anger times.
LILY 40:57
Is there a lot of food-dad-anger?
JENNY 40:58
and another one is that we were on a trip to Sydney. And we stopped at a motel and went to a restaurant. And I wanted to I ordered Camembert cheese. I wanted to eat the Camembert, but I didn't want to eat the skin. And he said you have to eat the whole thing. Which is fair enough.
LILY 41:19
But also Why are you ordering Camembert-
JENNY 41:21
I don't know. I was maybe 12 or 13 or something. I wasn't
LILY 41:25
[Laughter] right.
JENNY 41:28
But yeah, I just want to scoop out the middle bits and eat the- not eat the Camembert skin.
LILY 41:33
Right. Interesting.
JENNY 41:34
So Dor, me and her father ate it. It was fun. Then Dor and I developed my film and we'll be printing it on Monday. I can't wait. So she must have had-
LILY 41:45
a darkroom. Yeah, God fancy
JENNY 41:48
Dor was reading me out bits of her diary tonight. Oh my god. That's so meta.
LILY 41:52
Yeah.
JENNY 41:53
She's such a special person. As I said last week, she seems to have a gift to make people happy.
LILY 42:00
And you guys have been getting quite close. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Cause I remember you saying a few entries ago that you guys went to the movies and you're like,
JENNY 42:08
yeah, and she just really? She came down to Lorne. She's the one that that boy took a photo of? Yeah, so she's very bubbly. Very, everybody liked Dor. I don't know what it is. But I sure am glad to be able to say that I am close to her and that she loves me. She's the bestest friend anybody could hope to have. All my other friends are great, too. I'm so lucky to know so many fantastic people. Apparently Francis came up tonight, but I wasn't here. We're going up to Macedon on either Sunday afternoon or Monday, it should be good. _____ is ringing me when she gets back. We're going to have our leg waxing session. Go and see Elephant Man. Sometimes I feel all the love inside me surging around and it feels as if it's about to come bursting out of my soul. I know I have so much love to give. I just have to find the right person to take it.
LILY 42:38
Ooooh
JENNY 43:01
What a suck! Au revoir. J
LILY 43:06
You're so cute and sweet and romantic.
JENNY 43:10
I know. I really wanted to be in love.
LILY 43:13
Yeah. Interesting.
JENNY 43:14
Because by now my friends have had boyfriends. Most of them.
LILY 43:18
Right. Yeah.
JENNY 43:19
And I just hadn't.
LILY 43:21
And but you wanted it and you felt ready for it? Yeah, yeah.
JENNY 43:26
Probably not ready for sex, but probably ready for romance. That's the thing. A lot of people think that those two things have to go together. And I think you *can* just have the romance and if it doesn't have to be then a foregone conclusion that that's where it's going.
LILY 43:44
100% Yeah. And I think that's the thing. It's like, okay, if people start dating and doing that younger, they get more of like a run up. You know what I mean? Because the majority of people, they're not that, you know, even if they've got a boyfriend at 13 They're probably not having sex at 13.
JENNY 44:03
Yeah, I'd say roughly. That's correct. Based on the statistics,
LILY 44:07
Yes. So there is more of that space to kiss and then you do a little bit more, and it kind of builds and builds and builds. If you don't have a boyfriend, if you're not really doing much sexually, you then do get to an older age, and it's kind of like, bam, bam. Yeah, very quickly. Yeah. And, and I think people can also confuse being ready for sexual things as being ready for sex
JENNY 44:28
And being ready for romance. And having a relationship has also been conflated with those other physical stuff, which yeah, you might just be wanting to be really close to someone, share things. Be intimate, and snuggle and maybe kiss. Yeah, it's almost like you can't but you can't do that. Because then you're a 'prick-tease' like, you've got to deliver
LILY 44:51
Yeah. The exchange. And that's interesting because like, even now like, with Seth, like, I feel like I've done a lot of work, I think I was saying this previously, but like, individually in my own, you know, sex life to be quite equal, I would say. And like for the last few years have been very, like vigilant on closing the orgasm gap, being very like directive and communicative about what I need and blah, blah, blah. That's always very much in a, in a kind of casual context. And also with Bjorn I was very much like that. But interestingly, I still think I've got a lot of very ingrained things to do with sex and to do with giving pleasure to a man and that expectation that is so deep within that, like, I really struggle to, like, let things go. If we've been having sex, and if he doesn't come, to just kind of stop.
JENNY 45:51
Right
LILY 45:51
It's like, I see it as like, my duty to keep trying
JENNY 45:54
Oh wow!
LILY 45:55
Whereas I wouldn't like, you know, I mean, I wouldn't really blink an eye if he tried and it didn't happen. I'd be like: Oh, you tried. And so he has had to kind of be like, if this was reversed, yeah, you know what I mean? Like, it's fine. But also not everything has to be focused on people coming. That's not the goal of everything. But it's just, it's interesting, because like, I feel like with Bjorn, I didn't really realise that stuff. Because I didn't have someone saying that stuff. To me. I don't have someone kind of bringing that up. And I feel like Seth has done that quite a bit. And it's really made me realise how much was like that stuff still very, like, ingrained. It's funny.
JENNY 46:37
Yeah, I mean, it's good. But it's, it's interesting. Whereas I, my attitude is just like, well, that's on you.
LILY 46:46
Yeah. Yeah, it's interesting. Because I feel like I'm very used to like, being very like equal and fair, in the casual context, that then in a relationship is very different. And what people see is their sexual responsibility is very interesting. I think a lot of women see it as their sexual responsibility to give pleasure to their partners, whereas I don't think a lot of men see it as a sexual responsibility to give pleasure to be honest.
JENNY 47:12
Yeah, I think I'm more masculine. In my approach. I'm more so maybe, or just, but also, often just taking, just taking charge of myself as well. And the other person that's on them a bit. Which is not really mutual. Is it? And not very- generous
LILY 47:29
No, but I guess it's like, and it's also like that thing of like, if someone's, you know, someone's trying to make me come and it's taking a while, I'll usually be like, Oh, no, it's not gonna hurt, even though it could, because I'm just like, oh, I don't want them to keep trying or whatever.
JENNY 47:43
yeah well you don't feel you deserve maybe that?
LILY 47:45
Also, it's just
JENNY 47:46
A lot of time and input.
LILY 47:47
Yeah, like time and then the pressure and then getting your head about? You know, guys don't have that, it's so logical in their brains that you will work tirelessly for 45 minutes to make them come and it's like, wow, you know
JENNY 48:00
so it's interesting all of this stuff. And I do think I'm probably, remember I told you recently, I Googled who's the laziest star sign and it was Sagittarius like that. I'm probably a fairly lazy lover as well. You know? Personality wise, I just like to do my own thing. I'm a hermit. It doesn't really make for, you know,
LILY 48:27
[Laughter] Yeah.
JENNY 48:28
Couple situations.
LILY 48:32
Yeah,
JENNY 48:33
Yeah. So. Sunday, 19th of April. Well, hi. It's quarter to one and Francis is picking us up at one o'clock and we're going to Mt Macedon. His overseas trip has been postponed until August because the girlfriend he's going with got sick. I'd love to meet her. I don't think anyone could get on with him as well as I do. Bitch. Well, I don't, he and I have so many in-jokes. And when one of us says something, the other knows exactly what he/ she means. It's great. I'd love to go overseas with him. We'd fight all the time, but we'd be okay. This fighting is interesting to me.
LILY 49:08
Do you think it might have been bickering?
JENNY 49:09
Yeah probably.
LILY 49:11
Like an old married couple.
JENNY 49:12
Or like siblings. It should be fun at Macedon, mum's coming with us and we'll have a good time. Often in brackets. This is off the subject. Before I had to do a class talk or something and when I couldn't use tampons, I used to think I'd be so happy if I didn't have to do this talk. Or I'd be so happy if I didn't have to wear big fat bulky sanitary napkins. Well, now that I can use tampons, and now that I don't get as paralytically anxious before doing talks, I should be so happy. I'm not. I am very happy but there's still something missing. And I'm not sure what it is. Is it God? Actually I have been feeling closer or close to God. Lately, and I've given God a capital capital letters, which is interesting. I feel so much love and I am receiving so much love from all my beautiful friends. I don't think it is God that I'm lacking for I feel that I already have him by me. [Laughter] I think it's a boyfriend that I miss. I know that sounds terribly superficial and silly, but I do need someone apart from my family and my girlfriends to share my life love and feelings with. Oh, sick. I should be on a soap opera or something. So far, I haven't met anyone that I would want to go out with apart from Francis. Interesting.
LILY 50:38
Ah, interesting,
JENNY 50:39
So there you go. There are romantic feelings there. Hang on. Speak of the devil. I think I just heard his car drive up. He's at the door. I better go, Cheerio. J.
LILY 50:48
But see, such a safe option. And like I think often when people aren't ready for stuff but kind of want it. You know, you pick those safe people
JENNY 50:59
Oh of course. And also you have crushes on movie stars and people that you're never gonna have to kiss.
LILY 51:05
And be real with in that way
JENNY 51:06
That's right. That's so funny. Yeah, that's taken me by surprise. I didn't expect that.
LILY 51:12
Well, it's really fascinating the stuff that you remember, and don't remember, because I feel like as the narrative gets told, the stuff that isn't then person, you know, really say if something had happened with you, and Francis say, yeah, you would remember that because it's necessary, it's backstory for the [story]. But as that kind of your narrative moves away from people, things don't happen. You forget the the context or kind of stuff. Because it's not, you don't have to remember it. It's not a part of kind of your story, really, which is interesting, how memory works like that. And I think that's one of the real benefits of documenting, in journalling, like this, is to really kind of see, yeah, the, I guess, the paths that are running parallel that, you know, that aren't taken.
JENNY 51:58
And also, it shows like the 17-year-old girl, considering all options, and there's not many. [Laughter]
LILY 52:05
[Laughter]
JENNY 52:07
You know, really, it's very, very thin on the ground,
LILY 52:11
also, yeah, and there's a really yearning there, which is quite interesting, because I feel like I really didn't feel that, like, in school, like, I wasn't dating anyone. And I really didn't want to, and I felt like I only ever saw a relationship and romantic stuff in the context of being a lot older, like being late 20s, getting married, having children. That's why I never, I never imagined it. Like I had crushes on on movie stars, of course. And I would imagine, like my perfect person, but it was always in relation to those much further-away goals. And there was no one really, like really pushing me to want to do that, really, until Bjorn. And that was very much an intense, you know, feeling thing. I don't think
JENNY 52:59
What about being lonely and-
LILY 53:00
I don't, I don't think even when there were times where I was like, I would, you know, I'm ready for a relationship, or I would do that or whatever, I don't think I really felt lonely in that way. Like I have, so that's what I'm saying, I haven't felt that lonely yearning that you're writing about. I think, I think as well, just because, like, I think, I also think that I really casual dating then like, suits me quite well. Because it's a lot of attention. And there's a lot of newness, and it's a lot of, you know what I mean? So that kind of would fill those superficial needs of loneliness, I think.
JENNY 53:41
So maybe having, you know, like, dating American style where they seem to just be going on dates constantly with a bunch of different people.
LILY 53:49
Yeah. Or like you date someone for a few months, but like you're not- easy-come, easy-go kind of vibe, which is something I'd still like to experience because I haven't but-
JENNY 53:57
It's now about 11pm and we have just devoured roast pork, crackling, apple sauce and veggies. Yummy. So another light meal. Because remember, there was that 10:30 roast chicken.
LILY 54:09
Is that is that because gran's working and then coming home and
JENNY 54:12
No. Like we usually ate at a normal time? 6.30- 7.30 This is because we'd been up at Mount Macedon and obviously gotten back late.
LILY 54:22
Sure, sure. But I love that, so these days, you get back late, you'd order UberEATS you wouldn't cook up a meal of roast pork.
JENNY 54:29
I know.
LILY 54:30
it's interesting, that different mentality because now we just feel like okay, yeah, let's just order something or yeah, have some toast or something, kids go to bed
JENNY 54:39
Which, which, yeah, who knows who knows what was going on there. Francis stayed for dinner and we listened to tapes and looked at photos. It was fantastic up at Macedon and Francis and I rambled through the garden, picking beautifully brilliant Autumn leaves, eating wild strawberries and collecting snippets of geraniums, ferns, and Japanese maples to pot. He's a gardener. He snapped a few photos so I'll get prints of them hopefully. He was very impressed with the garden, just loved it. So this is ______'s house house. ______ was up there, mmmmm punk. So he's he's my age. Earring, punk hair etc. We gave him a lift back to Melbourne. It was funny on the way up. I sat in the front and mum in the back. She felt like the kid or the supervisor. Because _______ was driving his car.Overall, it was a great day. Francis and I should be going to Rocky Horror this Friday. I'll go and read Northanger Abbey now. Cheerio.
LILY 55:41
Oh, I love Northanger Abbey. That's one of my favourite Austen's
JENNY 55:44
Yes, you've said that. I haven't read it since 1981.
LILY 55:48
It's very teen girl. She's got this whole imaginary world and, very gothic. Everything's very tragic. She kind of makes up the story of of the family and what happened to the mother and obviously she's, you know, wrong. And then the romance is lovely. It's nice.
JENNY 56:05
I should reread it because quite a slip of a book. It's not that big.
LILY 56:08
No it's not. Well, none of them are really,
JENNY 56:11
Pride and Prejudice is a bit longer. But yeah, true. None of them are hefty tomes
LILY 56:14
Northanger is very short.
JENNY 56:18
Monday 20th of April 1981. This is how I feel get the picture. And so I've got this very sad face.
LILY 56:24
No. Oh, it's very sad face.
JENNY 56:30
The reason reason is a small and seemingly insignificant one. I can't find my Bible. And I went mad looking for it.
LILY 56:39
Okay, I've got so many questions. You had a bible?
JENNY 56:42
Oh, yeah.
LILY 56:43
When were you a secret religioso? You're like fucking SCO-MO. You're in the Pentecostals [laughter]
JENNY 56:48
I am not. I am not SCO-MO. Okay, Year 12. We were all given Bibles. So I'm imagining it's that
LILY 56:58
Right
JENNY 56:59
Why am I reading the Bible? This is Dor's influence. She is very kind of into the religion
LILY 57:03
So even back then she was? She was
JENNY 57:06
yeah
LILY 57:07
from a family?
JENNY 57:07
No, no, the family wasn't particularly, I think it was just that. I don't know. It just stuck with her a bit. But then she kind of moved away from it. And then she went back to it. And became-
LILY 57:19
So that's interesting, so yeah, that's definitely showing kind of that's what happens when you're friends with someone as well and you admire something. That influence is so strong.
JENNY 57:28
Yeah, absolutely. If it had been heroin, I would have been where's my fit? [Laughter]
LILY 57:32
Is that what [laughter] Yeah, yeah.
JENNY 57:34
Where's my fit?
LILY 57:35
oh my god
JENNY 57:36
Where's my rubber tubing? Alright, I went mad looking for it.
LILY 57:41
Sorry. No, just on that, I didn't tell you so I was talking to Rose when we went for a walk the other day and like, one of her housemates, the one that she's close with, the other girl who's in the house. Because, you know, they're both like not loving the house and one of them So what's she gonna do? And like apparently this girl's like, Oh, this is like the only rent I can afford. And she's dating this guy who's like, this girl's 22. She's dating a guy who's like 38, who lives in Daylesford and is like an artist and was like, you can come just like, live with me and do all your art projects and stuff. So he does meth. And I was like,
JENNY 58:18
Oh my God.
LILY 58:20
And I was literally like, to Rose. So I was like, she if she goes there, she will get stuck. And she, that like she will start doing meth. Like you know what I mean, like if you're living with someone doing- So much younger, and there's that you can't leave because she doesn't have a good relationship with her family and you don't have money and you don't have a car like-
JENNY 58:42
he'll start selling to pay for his meth.
LILY 58:46
Yeah, and then Rose was like Oh, well. Yeah, I was like, to her Well, you know, you can't go if he's still doing meth but if he quits... and I was like, People don't, like I don't know, I don't want to make sweeping statements here, I don't really understand and I've never been around meth, I was quite shocked by that because that's not a-
JENNY 59:02
My understanding is it's hugely addictive
LILY 59:04
and people don't quit, just quit.
JENNY 59:07
No
LILY 59:08
it's just, it's like- it's a really hard drug. And I was just like, Yeah, this is
JENNY 59:15
That's scary. Oh, my God. Not good.
LILY 59:19
Yeah. Anyway, so that just kind of reminded me of that and yeah,
JENNY 59:22
so influence definitely infinitely like
LILY 59:24
like a huge amount. Yeah.
JENNY 59:28
I nearly cried. I don't know why I got so emotional. But I wanted so much to find it and read it. Today I went to Dor's place to develop some photos, it was fun, and I stayed for dinner. We talked while we listened to Godspell after dinner [laughter] about God, etc. It's weird, but I think I may be Christian and exclamation marks and question marks
LILY 59:49
Woudl you have been talking like this with the family, because I don't, I don't imagine say like Jim or Gran being on board.
JENNY 59:57
I wouldn't have talked about it. This would have been very private. And believe me, it does not last. [Laughter] The way I talked about ______ etcetera being Christians was silly. They're no different to me. And I believe in Christ and God, so I believe in Christianity, but I'm going to read some of the Bible so I can assert my own ideas, interpretations and opinions. [Laughter] So not just follow the Christian army
LILY 1:00:26
Yeah, you're gonna, you're gonna contribute... shape. [Laughter]
JENNY 1:00:30
I'm gonna shape it for myself. I think that's why I got so frustrated looking for the Bible, because I want to read it. I think I'm going to start a new leaf, or whatever it's called in brackets and try to develop into an aware, thoughtful and loving person. I'm not, I'm going to act by my conscience and let myself be guided by God to do good and help others
LILY 1:00:54
[Laughter]
JENNY 1:00:54
Stop laughing!!
LILY 1:00:55
[Laughter] Sorry. Cause you're the most atheist person I know. I remember that like when I was like, maybe 13 or something I was like: I might believe in reincarnation. You're like: [harsh cold voice] I don't, you're dead, you're in the ground. That's it. [Laughter] Like where's this coming from??
JENNY 1:01:16
This is wanting to be in the group.
LILY 1:01:19
Yeah
JENNY 1:01:20
So this is how people do, you know, have sex before they're ready. It's before- they get drunk when they don't really want to, it's when they you know,
LILY 1:01:29
[Laughter] Become a Christian when they don't really want to! [Laughter]
JENNY 1:01:32
[Laughter] Get onto meth when they don't really want to. You know, they don't really want to shoplift when they don't want to, and they know it's wrong. So I'm, I'm going to let myself be guided by God to do good and help others and try to bring happiness to all those around me. By being happy myself. I've noticed that Dor seems to radiate happiness, and makes people around her feel happy. So it's very much observing this friend, seeing her charisma, and thinking, I want some of that for me, and it's only gonna come from being a godling. [Laughter]
LILY 1:02:09
[Laughter] Godling. Interesting, that kind of imitation.
JENNY 1:02:14
Yeah. And that sort of admiration for, you know, a peer, and wanting to be more like, it is absolutely that sort of influence. I'm going to love my friends as I'd like them to love me and help them to help me. But charity begins at home. So I'm going to try to improve my treatment of Jim and Liz, I'm going to love them and help them as much as I can. I'm never going to fight bitterly again, with Jim or Liz. As a matter of fact, Jim just came in then. Before he and I had a bit of an argument. Oh, understatement, fight. Now I'm in bed, and he came into the toilet. So the toilet was near my bedroom and the door was open. I'd not been talking to him because I was mad with him. But after writing my little resolution, I said to him 'good night' really cheerfully. He didn't know who'd said it. He thought it was Liz. Who said that? he said, Me, I said smiling. Jim came in and saw me grinning at him. It was just so much easier to be nice and smile and show a little bit of love than to be nasty. No one who hates can be truly happy. I'm sure of it. How could they? I think that ultimate happiness is only to be found in love. Dor said today — [laughter] — so she- Okay, I'm her disciple.
LILY 1:03:39
Yeah
JENNY 1:03:40
I'm now a disciple and Dor is the religious leader here.
LILY 1:03:44
Yeah, she's giving you teachings. [Laughter]
JENNY 1:03:47
[Laughter] So Dor said today: It's not worth it to get depressed. And it isn't. What's the point? It's so much easier to-
LILY 1:03:55
So simple
JENNY 1:03:57
To heave a big sigh, shrug your shoulders and switch on a smile.
LILY 1:04:02
Oh, wow.
JENNY 1:04:03
Yeah. It's interesting. So yeah, anyway, I better go and get some sleep. It's pretty late. I mean, it's just so Malory Towers, even though there was no religion in that, was there. Like you know, let's get on with it. And jolly good. Everything going to be fine!
LILY 1:04:21
You just turn that frown upside down.
JENNY 1:04:24
Ueah, and just have a midnight feast by the pool and some tongue sandwiches, it'll all be good. [Laughter]
LILY 1:04:32
[Laughter] It's interesting, because it's like, you know, I do think there's so much power in positive thinking. And, you know, having that positive mentality can help a huge amount. But then there's also that flip side of like, Yeah, but what people deal with in life is so varying and there's some things that you should get depressed about, like that's a very legitimate reaction. So definitely think it shows that kind of sheltered element a bit.
JENNY 1:05:02
Dor was popular, successful at work, and sport, right. And art. Like she was really really good at everything. Also, also, I'm going to go and get some sleep, it's pretty late. I'm going to put into practice my new *principes* (in French remember that poem?) Aujord'hui les filles s'emancipent? Actually, they're not really new ones. I've had them all along. But I've never written them down or made a real conscious effort to DO IT. So here we go. Pre empting the Nike slogan
LILY 1:06:43
Oh, DO IT if you just put JUST in front you could have made millions mum
JENNY 1:06:50
Later on. I do put it up on the ceiling, like mum let me draw on the ceiling and the walls and I had JUST DO IT across the ceiling.
LILY 1:07:00
Oh my God there you go. It all originated from Ashburton. [Laughter]
JENNY 1:07:05
[Laughter] I know! From the top bunk in Ashburton. I'm feeling much happier now, more like this, and I've done a smiley face, get the picture? Good. I'm so glad because I want you to know how I'm feeling. And it's all due to life and love. I'm doing it again, starting a new page when all I have to say is goodus nightus, Jenny Ackland, 17 years, four months, 18 days, etc, etc. So there you go.
LILY 1:07:33
Wow, interesting. Yeah. I'm so excited for like all your phases and to see like the development of your voice and like, just to see, yeah, things ebb and flow. And like, this is such a teen. It's such a teen girl voice and experience, which you know, it's kind of great. So it'll be really interesting to yeah, transition out of that into like the early 20s and the mid and so on
JENNY 1:08:00
I wonder whether many people do go through a religious kind of phase? I think it's maybe common, I want to say it's common. Maybe it's not. Write and let us know, if you went through a religious conversion.
LILY 1:08:12
Well, and then a conversion back after four months.
JENNY 1:08:17
I don't think it even lasts four months.
LILY 1:08:19
Right. So I do think maybe I think a lot of it's friend influence probably, I think that might be. I think it would be unlikely, and I think, maybe influence of a family that people might admire or like, there's that kind of admiration, Oh, this is the difference between my life and theirs, or this is the difference between me and them, is this religious component. And it's appealing. Like, this is what Christianity does so well. It's like, Oh, if you only just read this book and do these prayers and come to this thing, then you can be happy.
JENNY 1:08:47
Yeah, true. And I, I'm sure that Dor's being influenced by______ just by proximity and that looking up,
LILY 1:08:57
So _______ was quite. She was the head, she was the centre point of this religious fervour. That was trickling... going down... and infecting!
JENNY 1:09:05
Yeah, I think so. And then and then Dor, and then me looking at Dor and going. Wow, she's just so she's so great. So I think that's what that's what it was. Interesting. And, you know, I think I said recently to Liz, that I never really, I didn't think I wanted a best friend. I never really had a best friend. And that if anyone was a best friend, it was her. And I'd had friends at school say well, you were that close to Liz, you know, so we couldn't get in there kind of thing. Whereas here I am showing I think that I'm saying Dor is my best friend. Anyway. Yeah, it's interesting and there will you know, so Dee. Dee is around but she's not. I think I got closer to Dee after school. Like in Uni, first year uni
LILY 1:09:57
Sure. Yeah, it's so interesting because you know, we're talking about obsessive love and all that kind of thing. I think also, and it's such a female friendship kind of thing, that obsession can be a real element of it. And yeah, you know, I think, I think I you know, I was I didn't really, you know, date in school, whatever boys weren't really the focus, but girlfriends were and my female friendships and my female relationships are very important. That was where that kind of obsessive drama, you know, of things were happening. And there were some things that happened that felt like breakups, you know, and that was really hard. And so I feel like you're almost pantomiming out a relationship, particularly if you're not ready. And if you're not in one, and I think women or girls do that a lot. I don't know if guys really do
JENNY 1:10:01
No but they probably have crushes. And they have those admiration crushes as well. Definitely. But they probably don't write about it in a diary or talk about it with their mates, you know, like Oh, you know, so and so's great. Whereas I probably would, I've talked about this with friends?
LILY 1:11:03
But I feel like a lot more is allowed by society for women to very close, whereas guys, can't, they kind of can't engage with it. And like oh no, with you know, with a girlfriend, you can spend all your time together, you can have sleepovers, you can hang out. But, you know, there's a lot of girlfriends that I know, that are very close. And I've had, I've had that, like I know. You know, _______ when they first met, it was a very, like, intense connection of minds. And they were like, we just didn't like anyone else as much as we liked each other like, you know, yeah. Which is really nice.
JENNY 1:11:37
Did they meet each other before the girlfriends came along?
LILY 1:11:40
Yes
JENNY 1:11:42
I wonder if there was much of a lag between one getting a girlfriend and the other getting a girlfriend?
LILY 1:11:46
Ah, I think _______ started dating first and then about, maybe a year later, a year and a half? It's quite a bit. Yeah. Yeah, very interesting.
JENNY 1:11:58
It is interesting.
LILY 1:11:59
Anyway mum, we'll talk later.
JENNY 1:12:01
Okay, Bye, darling.
LILY 1:12:07
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JENNY 1:12:25
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LILY 1:12:28
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