#82 It's Me!

So what is this inner critic? That voice that's not me but it's always running in the background. Judging , condemning, people, things, circumstances. Why do I get so irritated? Because that inner critic is always trying to decide who's better,  what's right, who's right. It can't be me, and it turns out it's ALL me... this also contains great group interaction and input - become a Gathering supporter click the link below, and many many thanks!

Chapters

• 0:00 Welcome and Episode Introduction
• 8:10 Understanding Irritability and The Inner Critic
• 19:35 The Ego's Need for Control
• 31:19 From Judgment to Acceptance
• 41:50 The Power of Shared Experience
• 50:54 Closing Thoughts and Spiritual Growth

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:02

Welcome to the gathering, roger. I'm an alcoholic, roger. Sobriety dates October 11th 1978. Before we start, a couple of PSAs People on Zoom. We've been having trouble on this site with this thing dropping out at 40 minutes. If it drops out, just stay where you are, it'll reconnect in about 30 seconds. Okay, so that's one. The other thing is those of you that are doing the podcast, the Gathering with Roger B, the podcast, there's a section when you pull up a talk to listen to it. There's two links. The first link is on the top of the description and it is a way to message me, and on the bottom there's another link to support the app, to help with the expenses, and you can sign up for $3, $5, $8, or $10 a month, and it would be really helpful, hi Mary, it would be really helpful to defer some of the expense of doing this. So, that being said, shall we, we, shall we agree?

Speaker 1: 1:21

Irritability, irritability. My inability to form lasting and useful relationships with other human beings. That's one part of it. But what is under that? My irritation? Little things, big things, in between things those of you who know me, I talk a lot about the beast, that inner critic that's always chewing on us. It's always. You can call it the ego if you want, but it's that part of the ego that's always comparing and contrasting and I don't even think about it because it's just it's job. So I meet you and I get to know you and my brain is comparing me to you, me to you, me to you. The idea of the ego is it wants to be safe, it wants a guarantee and it wants constancy, which is the opposite of life, because life is always changing, flowing, always evolving, right. So over time, I developed some shortcuts for this.

Speaker 1: 2:29

When I hear that voice going what a stupid car, why are you driving that car? You know who wears a hat like that? It just, it's automatic, it doesn't require any conscious thought. I'm driving down the alley. My neighbors are getting a new uh driveway, a new garage, and I look at the foundation and I'm going that's too small. It's like who the hell is doing this, right? But it's going on all the time. It's that person in line, those people in line that are having cell phone conversations on speakerphone while you're in line with them. What the hell is the matter with you, right? And those people that don't know how to merge and the government and the taxes and the mortgage and the rent and the car repair and all that stuff.

Speaker 1: 3:16

It's all potential Irritation, and it's partly due to the fact that ego is always comparing and contrasting and the whole basis of it is lack. There's not enough. There's not enough money, there's not enough approval, there's not enough stuff, there's not enough acquisition, there's not enough praise, there's not enough honoring of my huge sacrifice to humanity, whatever it is. There's not enough. And so one of the things that I learned to do over time was, when that happens, when that button gets pushed, I just go.

Speaker 1: 3:57

Everyone's got a story and you don't know this guy's story or this woman's story, and that gives me a pause, the pause that we talk about in the 10-step pause. Ask for an intuitive thought or direction. It gives me the pause and a reframe so I don't end up reacting and doing something stupid like chasing you through the parking lot with a baseball bat. Old days, old days and it doesn't live in my head all day. Another one I do. Another shortcut I do is if I had the same things that had happened to me, not just today in my life, I might act exactly like that person. I might do the same thing if I had their story. I don't know their story, but it's another way to one cut them some slack, stop the judgment and also keep me free of having to think about it all day. So it's not new, it's always been there. And it's annoying because the part of me that is observing the thinking is going. You know, you'd think you'd be further along after all this time. You think you'd have got this figured out. And there's, as you know, as you grow in these ideas, there are layers to this. There's the first understanding, then there's another understanding later on, and another understanding later on. In the last several months, a new understanding came.

Speaker 1: 5:37

Why is that part of my brain always doing this? Because it's annoying, it's distracting and I don't really care. I don't care, but my brain seems to care, because it's always judging and looking and deciding who needs to die in what order. And you're using my precious resources. You don't deserve to be here. There's a case for sterilization right there. You know it's that kind of thing and is it's? This is so simplistic, but I think this is at the root of it.

Speaker 1: 6:08

For me, in that part of my brain, what I'm really saying is why aren't you all like me? Why don't you see this like me? Why don't you act like me? Why don't you respond like me? Why don't you talk like me? Why don't you dress like me? Why don't you have a car like me? Why don't you dress like me? Why don't you have a car like me? Why don't you behave Right? And it's oftentimes the simplest ideas are the most eloquent, you know, and there it is. Why aren't you more like me? So now that's a new shortcut that I use when I hear that button button get activated and I'm judging or being derisive.

Speaker 1: 6:47

It's a distraction, isn't it? I'm distracted with all this stuff. The other part of it it's none of my damn business. It's not my business. But if my brain can make it my business, then I'm distracted Because I'm not here with you. I'm not here driving the car. I'm reviewing that and planning how I'm going to rectify that down the road. Does that make sense? And it's like I got to have a way to understand this, to correct it.

Speaker 1: 7:18

This is part of what we're doing here with our spiritual program, our prayer meditation. With our spiritual program, our prayer meditation, our examination, our inventory stuff is to raise our awareness, because you can't fix something that you don't know, is there. So I have these things that keep vexing me. They're not. I see the ego wants me to say this is a flaw, you're broken. The Spirit says this is God's imitation. Bring this thing to me that you're powerless over and put it at my feet. That's six and seven, and the reason I can't do that is because of what's in between six and seven. What do you still cling to? I cling to being right. I need to be right, because if I'm not right, then I'm wrong.

Speaker 1: 8:05

Now, I grew up in this culture of dualistic thinking. That's it. It's right, wrong, winner, loser. And so I get this drilled into me as a little boy, and then the culture reinforces it the whole way. So if you're driving a newer car than me, you must be better than me. If you have more money than me, you got a nice house. I don't have a nice house. You must be better than me. You're just different. I know I've met along the way, I've met multi-millionaires that are just freaking miserable. And if it was money and if it was things, if it was acquisition, if it could do anything you want with anything you want, then they should be happy.

Speaker 1: 8:42

It's very similar to the thing. If you have a drinking problem, then not drinking should be your solution, right? And we've all stopped drinking. And then we've quickly realized there's a little more here to the game. We find out it was never about the drinking, it was about the suffering that was underneath it. And we suffer because we cling to ideas that don't serve us, they don't lift us, they don't put us in service to our fellows, they don't put us in service to a concept of something greater than ourselves. And the first introduction to that is when you get into AA and these 12 steps.

Speaker 1: 9:15

That forum is a type of spiritual formation and it's supposed to take you out of the consciousness you arrive with and transcend that, and you're supposed to learn and grow. That's fine. There's a Sufi saying about spirituality, and so there's just two points. First is begin, second is continue. And how many people do we know that bail after they get a little ways into this thing, get some relief, I'm fine, I got this. I don't need that meeting, I don't need that sponsor, I don't need anything, I'm doing just great, thank you. And I've got these areas in my life that are not well. They're still a mess, but it's not so uncomfortable the money thing, the legal thing, the relationship thing. It's not so uncomfortable that I move to do anything about it, because I can handle this. Why should I have to handle it?

Speaker 1: 10:18

This whole process is about becoming free becoming free not free of the drink, free of all the thinking that informs the drinking right. Ultimately, we find I think you'll agree at some point and level what I'm really addicted to is the way I see the world, and the way I see the world produces suffering. It's that simple. I see the world as highly competitive and AA says this is highly cooperative. Here, Come here. We understand you and we're not going to require anything of you, but we're just going to bear witness to what we found and if you want it, we're here to help you, and if you don't want it, not my business. I'm not a cheerleader running around with pom-poms for AA or steps or any of this stuff.

Speaker 1: 11:06

As you know, it's probably the biggest act of courage any of us have invested in, because when we say I'm powerless over alcohol, my life's unmanageable and I'm going to go forward in this thing, what I'm saying is I'm accepting the process of change, and then you start running into all the things that impede your change. They are your ideas, they are the way you see the world, they are the resentments that you won't let go of. They are the lack of acceptance. And that which I can't accept owns me and I suffer. I didn't know I was suffering. I didn't know I was suffering. I was suffering my whole bloody life.

Speaker 1: 11:47

And then I found Booth at 14 and I stopped suffering and it appeared that I had found a solution to my suffering, because it looked like it appeared that it all went away when I had the magic elixir. And it didn't. It just got repressed, it just got stuffed. That's why, when you start unpacking this thing and you get sober, it's like an emotional tsunami. You've got to look at this inventory thing and you'll get what you get when you do that. First four step out of the consciousness you have and that's the grace and mercy in this thing is. Whatever this thing is you call God or the creator, it won't give you more than you can handle because you just got to begin. And then the metaphor of the peeling the onion that's the deal.

Speaker 1: 12:34

You know, I got a big book meeting I go to on Monday nights and the new guys eventually in that first year will come to me and say I know why I'm studying the book. Why are you still studying it? I eat that first year will come to me and say I know why I'm studying the book. Why are you still studying it? Ie, do you have brain damage? Are you a little slow? What is it, old man? What it is is this when you study that book and you go through all the steps and the chapters again, it's a benchmark, because when I run into the doctor's opinion this year, when I run into, there's a solution. This year, more about outcome. This year I have a way to measure how far I've been brought since the last time I went through.

Speaker 1: 13:12

It takes us about 15 months to go through the first seven chapters, and in the beginning it was this is gonna take forever. You know, I got a life I'd like to get back to and then, after about three months of that, they start realizing oh, this is good, I like this, I'm getting these ideas and I'm allowed to marinate with them. I'm allowed to really stop and consider how does this apply to me? Is this my experience? And ultimately, every time we go through another phase of this is well, are you willing to give this up. Are you willing to take another step into the change process? And sometimes we don't, we balk, and what moves us out of that is we either get so uncomfortable that we decide to do the next thing that's indicated or we leave. We might not leave the room physically, we leave it here and in our hearts, in our minds, we're just how you doing, fine, man, everything's good, right. And then I find out you went nuts on someone and beat him up in the parking lot. What's that about? What step was that? You know? Or you know, he sounds so good, I can't believe he got drunk.

Speaker 1: 14:22

Well, if you do this from an intellectual platform, it's really easy to get confused the difference between an idea and a belief. Because as you're going through this process, you know the right answer you powerless. Is your life unmanageable? Well, of course, yeah, what do you think I'm doing here? And where are you at with the God question? Oh, I'm down with that. How are you really? What do you think I'm doing here? Oh, and where are you at with the God question? Oh, I'm down with that. How are you really? What is the concept? What? What's the concept that you're working with? Well, I just, I believe, I don't know. I'm a good Lutheran, I'm a good Catholic, I'm a good Buddhist. Oh yeah, you're a drunk Buddhist. You're a drunk Buddhist, you're a drunk Catholic.

Speaker 1: 15:03

Right, it's confused that I can say, intellectually, I agree with these ideas, that doesn't mean I have a relationship with the ideas. And the way I know I have a relationship with the ideas is they work on me, they change me, and in the beginning the change is pain. I'm just really uncomfortable knowing this thing about me. I'm still lying, I'm lying less, but I'm still lying. I'm still stealing, but I'm stealing less. Well, you're going the right direction.

Speaker 1: 15:34

But what happens is, as our hearts change, things that used to be acceptable to do become unacceptable. You can keep doing it, but you can't enjoy it Because you know it's not right, because this thing is spirit is waking up in you. Some people will call it conscience, but this, as we clear away the junk that blocks us from having the experience of spirit, we come to know more about ourselves and we come to know more about what, and we come to know more about what is correct for me to do and what isn't. What serves my spirit, what serves my life, what improves me, what lifts me and what doesn't. So I've now got an awareness of what is the problem. It's this idea. What is the solution? Change the idea.

Speaker 1: 16:24

Resentment's a really good example. All of us have had good reason to be resentful. A lot of us have had really crappy things happen to us, a lot of trauma, all that's true. But we get impaled on what happened and we never look for how do I get out from under this? Well, the answer is forgiveness. I'm not doing that. The answer is to take responsibility and accountability for your self-amends. I'm not doing that.

Speaker 1: 16:51

Well, you're stuck and now your history has the ability to reach back and pull you back. Remember this thing Kevin's doing, and my brain goes oh, we've had 333 examples of that in the past. And it starts pulling up all these memories and now I don't see what's going on. I see what appears to be going on, and I see it through the lens of my history, and it's distorted, it's inaccurate. That's what I'm getting free from. It's not if I'm right or wrong that there was an injustice. The question is what are you going to do about it? And my approach is I can't do anything about it until you own your part. Well then, what if it never happens? Then you're stuck for the rest of your bloody life.

Speaker 1: 17:38

The point in forgiving you is not for you, it's for me, it's for me to get free of the harm, real or imagined. That's what it says when we do the inventory, doesn't it List those resentments, real or imagined? That's one of the gifts we have, mind reading, isn't it? We all laugh because we've all done it. And look at you and go I know what that's about. I saw that look. I know what that look means. Right? Do you see the way he walked in here? Oh yeah, I know that story.

Speaker 1: 18:10

It's insidious and it's all in our imagination. And one of the things we're I've talked about this before, but it's all in our imagination and one of the things we're I've talked about this before, but it's true One of the things we're trying to do. We have the faculty to imagine. The problem is we don't have control of the faculty, so most of our imagination is on the dark side, because the beast uses that and says well, what about this? This is coming up, what's going to happen? What are we going to do when this happens? We'll need a plan A, b, c and D. Right, we've got to be prepared right.

Speaker 1: 18:48

So the whole time I'm in this defensive posture about what may happen in the future, which hasn't occurred, and based it on what has happened in the past, which is usually a distorted version of reality for me, because you don't kind of slight me. I'm deeply offended, I am deeply wounded and I need that to be justified. So some thoughts about this. This is a. You know we've got these prayers the third step prayer, the seventh step prayer, which is really the same prayer, the first part.

Speaker 1: 19:23

God, I offer myself to thee to build with me and do with me as thou wilt. Relieve me of the bondage of self, selfish, self-centered right that I may better do. Thy will Take away my difficulties, a victory over them. Compare witnesses to those that would help Of thy power, thy love and thy way of life. May I do thy will always. That's the direction. Nothing's happened for me in that point, but that prayer is stating the direction.

Speaker 1: 19:47

But then, when you get done with seven, here's the other half of the prayer. God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I can't change, which is what my whole inventory is full of All those resentments, all those fears, all those harms done on others. If I could do it differently, I would have done it differently. Accept the things I can't change. Courage to change the things I can. And when you analyze that with your pristine intellect, I can't change anything about you or them, anything about this. The only thing that changes me and the way I'm looking at it, my attitude, my approach, right, and those things are the defects that stand in the way of my useful to you and my fellows. This is contrary to our whole selfish self-centeredness. Grant me strength as I go from here to do your bidding. What is God's will? I don't know what God's will is, but I know what it's not.

Speaker 1: 20:42

Don't get in an argument with that person. Don't flip them off. Don't be in such a hurry that you don't notice other people are on the planet. They're here, right. Don't be so hurried that you don't see there's other human beings here. I've told you this before.

Speaker 1: 20:59

One of my favorite exercises is people in service positions drive-thrus servers check out people doing cashier work and you look at them and say Stephen, nice to see you. How are you doing man? And Stephen, how did you know my name? I can read You're wearing it right, but in that moment I'm saying I see you, you're not just a machine scanning stuff. I see you, you're a human being. It seems like a little thing, but it's not a little thing, it's a big thing because I need to understand we're all part of this thing together. We're all in this together, and the place that we build that community most often is in our relationships with our sponsor and our groups. That's where we're safe, that's where we practice this, that's where we get our questions answered and get our relief. And then we go out and we practice it.

Speaker 1: 21:57

And the 11th step gives you a scorecard. How'd you show up today? Did you give more than you took? Were you mostly thinking to yourself? Were you self-centered, or were you thinking about what you could do, what you could pack into the stream of life, what you could do for other people?

Speaker 1: 22:11

It's a real simple evaluation, and it's not to beat me up with it. The beast wants to beat me up with it, but all it is is to say tomorrow I got to pay more attention to the people around me. I was thinking to me too much. I was in the future too much. I got scared, right. Or I wasn't scared, but I was planning how not to be scared. Same thing, right.

Speaker 1: 22:34

So I'm out here and what you see as you grow in this, the resentment is the past. It's dead. Yesterday is dead. Whatever it is, regardless of resentment or not, it's just dead. I can't undo it and I can't do it differently. And the future hasn't happened. And what this illness we have, this dis-ease we have, does is it drags us back and forth between the future and the past, and so there's no time to connect with the creator, there's no time to pray, there's no time to inventory, there's no time to reflect, because I'm reacting to everything, and that reaction takes me out of the game. Make sense. So let's open it up. So what do you do with irritation? What have you do with irritation? What have you learned about irritation? What works, what doesn't work? Questions, comments, clarifications. Floor's open, y'all. I'm talking to you. I am talking to you. Come on, zoomers, weigh in Anyone.

Speaker 2: 23:46

Oh, I'm here still going. I thought someone was talking in the room no. Is the floor open, Roger?

Speaker 1: 23:52

Someone is walking by. Oh, okay, is the floor open then? The floor is wide open. The floor is wide open.

Speaker 2: 24:00

Okay, this was awesome Kenai Raptor Really good stuff. I love a couple of things that he said about cooperation rather than competition, Because I think he talked about it in terms of you know cooperating, learning how to do that in AA, and my mind just went to you know practicing the traditions in my personal life. And when you were talking about like automobile stuff on the road and all of that, I was like, oh man, I have to. One of my strategies or my shortcuts is I make up a story that causes me to have compassion for the aggressive driver. Sometimes it's a funny story and it's not compassionate at all, it's still judgy, but like they, you know they mask their pants or something like wondering how to get home and all that stuff.

Speaker 2: 24:52

I make up these incredibly detailed stories. I make up these incredibly detailed stories, but the best one is the one where I get to invite God in to be the person who's being aggressive, driving Like that. Grandma is driving like that because she's crying, she's so nervous because she's going to pick up her grandchildren because their mother just was in a car accident. She's got to go to the daycare. I think it's some story where there's just nothing but compassion for that driver. You know, the grandmother's driving too slow or the aggressive driver those are the ones that used to make it more of a hilarious story about their life situation. But I just make it up and believe it and then I'm not aggravated, I'm not irritated. I am in my own little fantasy world and I'm trying to cooperate, you know, with the situation at hand like get away from the aggressive drivers, just back up, pull over whatever and just be more cooperative.

Speaker 2: 25:49

And that's what God wants us to do. You know, get along, play nice to those other kids is how I put it. That's what we're supposed to be doing. I think that's what I believe God wants for all of us.

Speaker 2: 26:00

And then the other thing that really struck me that came out of your mouth tonight, roger, was that which I cannot accept owns me. And boy, that one just hit big time for me, because I still really struggle with, you know, the lack of control and the power list and all of that stuff. And why isn't everyone on board with this? I want it this way. Whatever, it is that which I cannot accept and I'm pretty easygoing most of the time and I'm pretty easy going most of the time, and if I'm not, it's because I'm clinging to the mind idea of how things need to roll. So, anyway, that which I cannot accept owns me.

Speaker 2: 26:46

I'm not like that idea, but it's real, because when I get into my, if I get angry, I am not me. I am absolutely not me, I'm just like I gotta swear. There's some other planet I go to or something, and I'm swearing and I'm polluting the energy around whoever I'm with. It doesn't happen very often, but it's like Dr Jekyll, mri anyway. Thank you, roger. Really good stuff tonight. There was a lot more really good stuff, but I'm going to pass. We'll come back.

Speaker 1: 27:21

Thanks, kirsten. That thing about suffering, my inability to accept what is, it's just a fact. I don't have to have a plus or minus to it, because actually it's none of my damn business, but the ego wants everything to be about me. How's this going to affect me? How's this make me look? How does this measure up to this other imagination? But what you were talking about, kirsten, is the proper use of the faculty, the imaginary faculty.

Speaker 1: 27:51

I imagine, something positive that induces compassion and empathy, which are much higher qualities than self-centeredness and resentment and anger. Right, and so here I am. Maximum service to God are these higher principles and you? And when that's my orientation, very little can upset me. And when I'm upset, it's always because I think something's supposed to be another way, other than it is. And it's so weird when you stand back and look at it. Of course, you know why aren't you all like me, why don't you all think like me, why don't you all act like me? And it's so silly.

Speaker 1: 28:30

But it's what's under all that? Because in a dualistic frame, if you're not like me, if you don't agree with me, one of us has to be right and one of us has to be wrong. And by God, I'm not going to be wrong. Are you with me Now? We've got argumentation, manipulation, we've got delusion, right. The only thing I have control about is my approach, my attitude. That's the whole thing. And the ego is like. This is a Buddhist thing I've told you this before, but it's appropriate here. When you think you're controlling things. It's like an ant on a log going down the river and as the log goes around the bend of the river, the ant thinks he's steering it. That's how much power we have. We have the power of choice, but you've got to make that conscious choice, because if you don't, it's a reactive pattern, habituated response to a stimulus which is always negative. That's good. Who else? Anyone? Don't look at them. Look at you. Hi, try and speak up a little bit for the guys.

Speaker 3: 29:42

So I deliver some stuff to the Minnesota Renaissance Fair site yesterday and we rent a 26 foot box truck to do that, and there's certain parts of the route where I know that people are going to be merging and it's kind of it's a little, you know, it's a little dicey, and so I tend to drive in the left hand lane and I feel that I go, you know, a fair speed, but there's still sometimes when I guess I'm not going quite fast enough for some people. And yesterday I got this.

Speaker 3: 30:24

I got this a couple of times. And then on the way home I met a guy just going crazy. He was behind me, he's honking his horn, he's flashing his lights and he's going. And at first my first instinct is well, you know what?

Speaker 1: 30:40

Yeah.

Speaker 3: 30:41

And I did not. I didn't, I didn't pray because I moved over into the red light and then I thought to myself he has to be trying to tell me something and I thought maybe the ramp had slid out of the way.

Speaker 1: 30:55

Couldn't be by driving. The ramp had slid out of the way. Couldn't be by driving.

Speaker 3: 31:02

I got off on the next exit. I got back on, you know, I sat on the entrance ramp and I walked around the truck to the back and everything was fine, and I hopped back in the highway and I just was like he confused that guy. I mean I didn't know what to do, but I got back on the highway and just kept driving and I don't know. It's just, you know, one of those instances I just had to shake my head and go, I don't know.

Speaker 1: 31:26

So, yeah, it's not me, it's me, it's them, it's me. No, it's not me, it's me, oh, it's me. If I can accept, if I can embrace this thing, it's me. I could do something about it. If it's you and I got to figure you out I'll never get done. You know, I had the same thing happen. I was at a stoplight and it turned green. And in the instant it turned green the guy behind was laying on the horn like I ran over his wife and I'm like that's not about me, that's about him. You know, yeah, whoever came up with the concept of the zipper merge should be fired.

Speaker 1: 32:08

Nobody knows what that means. You know they think I'll drive to the end of the merge lane and then I'll just pull over. You'll all understand It'd be nice if you get up to speed. You know, merging on a 65 going 30, that's kind of dicey, just saying. But it's not about that, it's about me. You know, it's an exercise, because I don't ever drive the speed limit. I drive a few miles an hour under it so you avoid the traffic jams. Everyone's passing you because no one drives the speed limit.

Speaker 1: 32:42

But that means I'm in the merge lane and so the practice is I'm seeing this guy. Is he coming up to speed? I can take my foot off the gas a little bit and let him go ahead, or if he's matching my speed, I'll just tap the brakes, let him go because he's not doing it right. There it is. You're not doing it right. But do I want to be right or do I want to be comfortable? You know, it's just, there's a lot of different ways to look at this, but I have to be able to find a way to go through the world where I can go through it. Jesus wear like a loose garment. I got to be in the world, but I don't have to be of it.

Speaker 1: 33:19

Another one of those gut checks is in this moment. I can define the moment or I can let the moment define me. What's it going to be? That's a choice, right. But to do that you have to have some version of the pause, because it's a thought. I've got to choose differently. I've got all kinds of habituated automatic responses and that's what I've got to put the brake on, because none of them are good. None of them are good for me and none of them are good for you. So why am I engaging in stuff that's not good for anybody, right? Just because it's habit, because I learned to do it and because I had those formative years and those messaging things I got early on were incorrect, so I got to unlearn. We're just remapping the brain, we're rewiring ourselves. Who else? Thank you.

Speaker 6: 34:20

Craig, go ahead, tom.

Speaker 4: 34:24

Go ahead Tom One thing that I really am aware of and I'm grateful that I'm aware of is when, whenever I'm fearful, it's always about future.

Speaker 7: 34:40

Can you hear me? Yep, yep.

Speaker 6: 34:44

He froze up yeah.

Speaker 1: 34:46

You froze up, tom, can you hear me Now? You can, yeah, go ahead, fear.

Speaker 4: 34:55

Yeah, I think whenever I'm fearful, it's always future. Fear is always future. When I'm angry, it's always past, anything to do with the past. And when I'm present, I'm present. It's joyful, and something that somebody told me years ago in dealing with people. He said give space to the garbage that we all have and deal with the God in them. And I remember that from 40 years ago and I find it helpful and peaceful. And then a prayer that I say quite often is my favorite prayer. I just say come Holy Spirit to help me get present and I'll pass. Quite, quite often it's my favorite prayer. I just say come, holy Spirit to help me get present.

Speaker 1: 35:40

So and I'll pass, invite the power into my consciousness. Yeah, who else Go ahead, matthew?

Speaker 8: 35:49

Matthew, I go back to the house five or six times as I'm walking, going to somewhere, coming from, all these things are going through my head. And then I have to go to the car and look, did I lock that door? And I go back and I make sure I lock that door and I get there and I'll be taking that over there. I've only got 10 days in, but I'm learning a lot less about fear. My experience is, when I'm working out of fear, bad things happen and I tend to vibe like that. But when I'm working on faith or love, the promises happen but I don't really see them coming. I see them more in retrospect, I think.

Speaker 1: 36:40

Exactly.

Speaker 8: 36:42

Me learning to be present. But I act now out of compassion and love and I don't try to control what's going to happen. I just let those ships fall where they may and then observe, because I walk through life with gratefulness. Now. I'm grateful for I did a lot of things today that I, like my family, is a purpose to my source of why I'm here and I like the 2218, we were together in Congo, the officer lady I get her stuff and purpose through my source of why I'm here and I, like the 2218, we were together at Congo and the office lady did her stuff in the storage and it was really a good experience for me to see guys that I mean one guy's got a bad back and neurotic thing that once she opens out and we're up to this lady who's been through trauma and brain damage and she's supervising us, who could put this crew together and we actually got it done.

Speaker 8: 37:43

It's an interesting way this thing works out. And then I was able to get to my church today. I was supposed to be working on the dam and this was when they had to re-blown flame with the little tights and stuff on the shelves. So I was doing that and I got there just ins and stuff on the shelves, this and that. So I was busy doing that and I got there just in time to break down the tents and do the work.

Speaker 8: 38:02

But it was a saving community and that's completely a different cultural thing for me after all these years living in disasters. As I come here, I told Larry I would be here, but I was upstairs and so I didn't want to run out on them because you know, this is important stuff and people want to be heard. I needed information so that I came down here and I love the topic. It's fear. It's about fear Could be. I know it's about fear. It's not so much faith I'm walking in as much as compassion and I finally found after many years where I go is my source God and whatever you want to call me you can call me different names and my relationship right there and my purpose in asking myself what does that mean to community and service and personal relationships. So I'm in the healing process.

Speaker 1: 39:09

But, matthew, here's the deal. You know the truth, you know the principles, you're already having an experience of it. Right, so now it just comes down to practice and discipline. I got to do this on an ongoing basis, not until I feel better, because that's going to change situations and circumstances are going to change. But you already know the deal. I want to be of service, I want to be helpful, and then you invoke this law of consciousness you reap what you sow. You already know the deal. I want to be of service, I want to be helpful, and then you invoke this law of consciousness you reap what you sow. So I go do this.

Speaker 1: 39:44

I don't get an instant when I help this woman get her stuff into storage. It doesn't turn around and I get someone to help me get my stuff into storage. That's not what it comes back to. But it comes back to like. I run into Mark. He says come to this meeting, and I go there's and my spirit gets fed. It comes back to us in different ways, and it's important because the other piece of this is you never know what's happening. You only know it in retrospect.

Speaker 1: 40:13

When did that change? When did that go away? When did I really let go of that, because it's gone and I start realizing there's something going on here. I don't know what it is, it's mysterious, but I'm now having a collection of experiences that are going to cultivate a belief, because our steps are experiential. You got to do them to have an experience of them and you have to keep doing them to keep having an experience. The old guys used to tell me you don't stay sober on yesterday's prayers. You know, it's not what I did yesterday that matters, it's what I'm doing right now that matters. And if I'm not here, I'm going to be acting out of either the past or the future, some form of fear, some form of lack. Right, it's good. I'm glad for you. I'm glad for you. Who else?

Speaker 6: 41:05

Craig O'Connor. Craig, I was hanging on to the idea of going to the big book. Over and over, over the years, I've been in a big book meeting since the beginning and I found that as we reach for an ideal, we never truly get to perfection. We just seek that ideal. Personality change, psychic change, profound difference in my reaction to life. All of that ideal, personality change, psychic change, profound difference in my reaction to life, all of that develops. So each and every time I read Bill's story more about alcoholism, there is a solution, how it works, it's alive and it changes because my relationships change.

Speaker 6: 41:45

I get older, things happen at work, on the road, everywhere. Every time I go through the big book it's different, same words, different developmental states seeking the ideal, and I have to report that. Well, you asked me earlier, roger, how's life? Pretty good, and Roger's response was it's been going on for a while now and it isn't because I found the answer I graduated, got the diploma and stopped. It's because I'm still in that big book every single week, answering the phone, talking on the phone, coming here, doing the things that allow me to continue to seek the ideal that I'll never truly reach the ideal that I'll never truly reach.

Speaker 1: 42:30

And when I'm doing that on a daily basis, I'm affirming and confirming all the things I've learned and have yet to learn. And the difference is in this is it's not I'm so proud of how far I've come. The truth is, I'm astounded at how far I've been brought because the guy I was can't be here. I should be in prison or dead. And it's like this doesn't happen like that. It happens like a glacier. For me, it just happens slowly over a period of time, and I only know that it's happened in retrospect and something will happen, a situation will present and I'll walk away and I'll go. That's different. You didn't do that thing. You always do when that happens and it's gone because I have a different understanding of what's going on out here. I have a different understanding. Do I have that 100% of the time? No, but now, with some time and some practice, when that irritation comes up, it's a nudge from God saying come back over here. You're off the beam. You're not a failure, you're just off the beam. You're focusing on the wrong things, right?

Speaker 1: 43:41

Who else Zoomers anyone? Come on, hey everybody. Paul. Hey Paul, hey Paul. Come on, hey everybody, paul Alcala, hey Paul thanks everybody for being here tonight.

Speaker 7: 43:56

Um, uh, grateful for all you guys. Um, just one thing that popped into my head was what the, the, uh, those habituated responses, whether it's, you know, living out of the past or in the future, and the. You know we talked a lot about the mental side of you know what that does to us. And then there's you know what I've learned going through this is the physical side, just the recognition to me of most of my life was lived that way from a very young age A lot of fear, a lot of fear and a lot of fear about what was going to happen in the future. And you just, you know, realizing that I carry a lot of anxiety with me the majority of the day, wherever I went, whatever I did, and the toll that that takes on our bodies. Basically the stress hormones that you know are just releasing and it just it beats the crap out of our bodies as well, releasing and it just it beats the crap out of our bodies as well. And that's one of the things that you know I really finding these little pockets of peace and find being able to find the pauses, um, but the benefits of of that.

Speaker 7: 45:23

Physically, it it really helps healing. You know the physical healing that's going on there, even though we don't see it or in many instances don't feel it. It it kind of uh, it compounds and it helps. It helps the mental side as well. So it's kind of cool to think about both sides of you know, our, our physical nature getting healed in a way that, again, is all about the surrender and the recognition, finding the pause and then being able to be in that moment. So pretty cool stuff. Thanks, that's all I got.

Speaker 1: 46:00

Thanks, paul, anyone else?

Speaker 5: 46:09

Mark, I'm an alcoholic.

Speaker 4: 46:09

Hey Mark.

Speaker 5: 46:11

You know, know, the thing that I got over time is just noticing the dull rumbling that's constantly going. And I just heard the air conditioning go off, and I use this as an example all the time. Most people don't even hear when it's running, and so I work with a bunch of guys in a facility and there's just this, always, just, it's just always like chatter and it's just it's background noise. We don't even hear it and I it's so interesting to see that in myself and I'm grateful for that, that witness self, I guess, or that being able to see that, um, because there was a time when I, I wasn't, and then I go. So what else, if there's, if this is behind there, what else am I not seeing? Right, you know, and you know this thing it just went off, you know, and it's like it's we don't even hear when it's I heard it too and then it went off and it got quiet.

Speaker 5: 47:07

It's like, oh, I don't think about it when it's running, but I hear when it goes off right and uh, I don't know, it's just cool, it's just, you know I, I think the thing you know, you mentioned you know the, the thing with sticking around, you know, and it's like if I I think there's got to be an experience Like I got to stick around for that to happen. You know, and there's also a guy I work with. He relapsed while he's incarcerated. He relapsed while locked up and I go, shit, if you can't stay sober in prison, where are you going to be? You know, I mean, this is about as locked up as you can get, man.

Speaker 5: 47:46

And he said, oh yeah, I lost all this stuff. And I go, go, you didn't really lose anything. You just are disappointed yourself, you know I, but it's just, it's well, it's part of the journey. It's not even like oh, I, I'm, the totality of my life is right now. It's like, no, this is part of your story. Story, revel and rejoice in the story. In five years it might be a different story and this will be the story you tell.

Speaker 1: 48:15

Well, your recovery. Is you rewriting the story? Yeah, rewriting the story from this point forward. You know what you're talking about. It's experiential and a lot of times we see people come in and they go well, I'm on, I'm powerless. My people come in and they go well, I'm on, I'm powerless, my life's a mess. I'm waiting to have the experience. You have to participate in this to have the experience. It's not going to come up and beat you up the side of the head just because you're not drinking or doing drugs and you're going to some meetings with some bozos. You don't know, it's not going to happen. It happens in that identification moment. I'm in the meeting that guy's talking. I go me too, me too, and that's the first time.

Speaker 1: 48:56

The beast is that lie that I can't change and I can't get. Well, I just recognize the truth in what that guy said. I can't recognize the truth unless it's in me, just like I can't explain to you this great orange I'm eating. If you've never eaten an orange, it won't mean anything. And that resonance to the truth is oftentimes unsettling when you're new. It's like ooh right, because the beast says we don't want to go there, you might change, you might get some relief and it's predicated on keeping us miserable, keeping us uncomfortable. So again, this idea of a God of your understanding, a higher power. It's not that we don't have higher powers, we all have higher powers Money, appearance, sex acquisition, education. Some people bring on education. Right, I told myself if I went to college and I got a degree, that would do it. Then I get out and I find out it's not doing it. So I don't decide. Maybe it's not education. I go, but I think I got to get a master's. I go back. I spent 10 years going to school to convince myself that I'm better than I think I am, and it doesn't matter what happens out here, it doesn't matter how successful you are on paper, in here I know I'm a dirt ball. I got this persona, this thing I show the world. That's the Greek word for mask. This is how I present myself, but inside I'm a failure and I can't. This is part of the breakdown in the community we have. I've got to be able to own it. I've got to be saying God, me too. And then that leads to well, what do you do with that? What did you do with that? What did you do with that? What did you do with that? And you'll hear some things, maybe not 100% of what this guy says, 100% of what that guy, but I got a little piece there I can use. Thank you, matthew, I got a little piece there I can use. Thank you, stephen, I got a little piece I can use there. Thanks, gino. Not one big thing, but it's a mosaic and if I can't be present to it I can't have the experience, and your success convinces me that there's a way out of this.

Speaker 1: 51:10

You know the ultimate story of Ebby and Bill. I think everyone's got an Ebby. Who brought that to you, who brought that to you for me? My dad was my Ebby and he sobered up 10 years before me and if you have children you'll understand the power of this. What he was? An alcoholic he's. So my Ebi. He's the guy that brought the message to me, and the way it was brought was not with words, it was with demonstration.

Speaker 1: 51:46

I grew up being his bartender. I saw what Scotch and Percocet did to him and it almost killed him three times. And then he went to ANA and I don't know what that is, but, boy, he's a lot better than he was and he would. I was helping him build his house at the time a retirement house and I'd be sitting on the foundation drinking beer and taking my lunch break Beer and Hershey's, it works and all these cars three or four cars would pull up and go Don, come on going to lunch. It was his AA buddies and every day they went out to lunch together and they'd go Roger, you want to come? I said no, I'm fine, thank you. But here's the thing my dad's example. His demonstration required no words. It was so powerful. And when I could sit in a meeting with a bunch of people I don't know and I could make up a story about poser, poser, poser, bullshit, bullshit, bullshit, in the back of my head I got, but your dad, and he said he found it in these rooms. You know it was a big deal. I know some of you guys had the same thing with your parents. You know, old man got sober, things changed and it was like, hmm, can't say there's no way out. I can say I refuse to take it. That's the truth. But it's not only an adventure, it's a courageous adventure.

Speaker 1: 53:06

The search for spirit, the search for truth, right nature, the search for spirit, the search for truth, right. So I have gods. And the question is not what are your gods? The question is, how does that work? You have a philosophy, you have a belief system. How does that serve you? Do you like the results? Well, no, why do you think I'm in this room? The results suck right, okay, fine. Are you interested in tweaking that a little bit, maybe adjusting what you're practicing and believe in? And that's right. Where the bias, the prejudice and the closed-mindedness comes up? Well, no, I think I'm fine. Thank you very much. I'll do this my way. That's how you die. I did that my way 18 months. I put a gun in my mouth. It wasn't because I wanted to die, it was because I couldn't stand being alive with the truth and nothing to kill the pain. So anyone else Zoomers, anyone got anything. You want to throw on the log, a log on the fire here? Matthew, can you speak a little louder?

Speaker 8: 54:14

and there were people, teachers, that these guys had 50 degrees or whatever and they'd teach them in the classroom. This was grade school, I guess, or maybe even high school. But he said, man, I used to. I always had trouble reading and comprehending. And these guys would be talking and he said, sometimes I would just put my head down on my desk between my hands because I couldn't, I was too embarrassed to talk. And he said but then this one guy started talking about his childhood and what happened.

Speaker 8: 55:03

He was a teacher, but he said he connected with him because he knew that this guy didn't read this out of a book, he didn't learn this in a classroom. He knew it was authentic to connect with him because he knew the difference between the street talk I mean street talk and the book talk. And he was able to connect with this guy. And this guy made a big difference in his life when he connected to him. People can really feel that energy of authenticity and I guess that comes to me that the program is how do they say it? It's attraction, not an act, not promotion.

Speaker 8: 55:45

Yeah, and that's what connects.

Speaker 1: 55:48

Yeah, and the thing you're describing, the thing that touched that guy, was shared experience. You're calling it authenticity. I'm going to tell you, I've been where you've been. I know the game, I know how this works. So that's good. Nice meeting tonight. Thank you for being here. Want to pass that around. 7th tradition get that going. So I want to close with this idea.

Speaker 1: 56:13

One of the things if you are a seeker and you're studying and you're exploring different texts over time you'll find the same message has been around for thousands of years. We say things like trust God and clean house. We say things like establish and grow a relationship with the God of your understanding. We say practice these principles in all your affairs. We say come from a higher place, right? Well, this is what Francis said. Listen to this. This is about experience.

Speaker 1: 56:45

Before you speak of peace, you must first have it in your heart. You can't come back from somewhere you haven't been. We've been called to heal wounds, to unite what's fallen apart, to bring home any who've lost their way. At the end of the day, we're just walking each other home. His metaphor to the Father, to the truth, to the Spirit right.

Speaker 1: 57:07

And here's the famous prayer Lord, make me an instrument of your peace. Here's the opposites when there's hatred, sow love. Where there's injury, pardon. Where there's doubt, faith. Where there's despair, hope. Where there's darkness, bring some light. Where there's sadness, joy. Oh divine master, grant that I may not so much seek to be consoled as to console, to be understood as to understand, to be loved as to love, but in giving that we receive. It is in pardoning that we're pardoned. It is in dying that we're born again to eternal life. This is the dying to self metaphor. That's what's happening with the steps. The ego is losing its power over time and application and practice. Thank you for being here. Good to be with you. See you, zoomers. Thank you, roger. Thank you, good to be with you. Bye, everybody.