#84 Let It Go!

Every discipline says this in one way or another. Let Go Let God, Uncover, Discover, Discard, Turn it Over, Trust God, Clean House, Help Others.  Wonderful, but how? This a discussion of the how, my experience and then the attendees sharing theirs, We hope you can find an answer - or even a thread that helps you.

Chapters

• 0:00 Welcome to the Gathering
• 1:14 The Challenge of Letting Go
• 5:13 Breaking Free from Self-Reliance
• 11:15 The False Self vs. True Self
• 16:23 Finding Freedom in Forgiveness
• 32:55 Sharing Experiences of Letting Go
• 59:47 Forgiveness and Self-Compassion
• 1:04:22 Closing Thoughts on Surrender

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:03

There we go. Welcome to the gathering. A couple things to get out of the way before I start. This is the 21st year of the gathering. My Zoomer friends sounds like laughing If you're listening on a streaming device. There is a. There are two links. One is to send me a message, the other is to support the gathering, and if you could do that, it would be really helpful in the longevity of this, this gathering. And we are the gathering, I'm not the gathering, we are the gathering, and it is now in 64 countries and 698 cities. And that's you guys. They're listening to you, you're all over the. You're global, you're global. So, anyway, if you can consider that as an option, it would be helpful.

Speaker 1: 1:09

So this has been what I'm going to talk about a little bit. I think what I'm going to talk about a little bit is this theme that's been appearing in my life very intensely lately, and that is the idea of letting go. Letting go and I was thinking about some of our cute little sayings that we have that used to just irritate the hell out of me like let it go. If I let it go, where will it go? Let what go? Right? Oh, this is another one that was really annoying. Let go and let God. Yeah, you need to do that. Let go and let God. What is that going to look like? You've got to have a concept of a higher power to do that. And even if I do have a concept in my very early stages of this, if I'm going to turn something over to God, I've got an expectation of what that's going to turn out like and what it's going to look like. One day at a time. One hour at a time, five minutes at a time. One day at a time, one day at a time. You just got to do this today. Sometimes it seems like there's so much intensity and weight in what's going on in our lives that it's overwhelming and it feels like a very, very heavy burden. But the truth is, whatever it is, I only have to do this for a day. Burden. But the truth is, whatever it is, I only have to do this for a day. The beast wants me to go in the future and go welcome to the rest of your bloody life. You're going to do nothing but suffer with this right and eventually your back's going to break under the weight of it. Easy does it? Another one I hate it's like I can't easy do anything. If I easy do it, how will I be sure of how it's going to turn out Right? This is a good one too. This is Chuck Chamberlain Uncover, discover, discard.

Speaker 1: 3:20

This is all about the steps right Uncover the truth, discover the cause and then discard the problem. Discard, it doesn't say work on it. It doesn't say fix it. All we're doing here is we're identifying the blocks that we have to the person that we want to be and that will come through the. The gateway of that is going to be my relationship with the God of my understanding, creator, mystery, spirit of the universe, whatever you call it. It doesn't matter what you call it, but it's the acquiescence to the idea that there is something greater than me. This is the second step that has the power to restore me to something useful Wholeness, sanity. So, abandonment, abandon yourself to God. I don't know about that. Turn it over.

Speaker 1: 4:18

I heard Nalyn say this If you don't let go of something that you turn over, you're just upside down with it, which I thought made good sense. I spent a lot of time in that posture. So what are we talking about? What am I supposed to let go of? My need to produce a specific outcome, my need to be right. You know it's interesting because when you look at man's world, the three dimensions, people places, at man's world, the three dimensions, people places, things and circumstances, the material realm, it looks like everybody seems to know what's supposed to happen. Everybody has an idea of what's supposed to happen.

Speaker 1: 4:57

We're sitting here in this room, the people online on the meeting, hi Phil, hi Heather, hi Ellie we all have an idea what's supposed to happen. That's what we're supposed to do. Right, this is the credo of our culture is self-reliance. Make it happen, work harder. It's not that you're a failure, you're just not working hard enough. And I get the goal, I set the goal, I got a target and I hit the target and I feel some relief and some accomplishment for a small period of time. And then I come back to this emptiness, this hunger. I need more. I need more and we've been looking in the wrong place. We've been looking out here. It's not in your boyfriend, it's not in your wife, it's not in your girlfriend, it's not in your dog, although the dog is close, god with paws. And we've been trained, we okay.

Speaker 2: 5:52

We're getting a message that you're a bit garbled.

Speaker 1: 5:55

Oh, I've heard that before. I don't know, I'll try not to garble. Is it my enunciation or is it electronic? Hi, phil.

Speaker 3: 6:08

I think it's electronic, roger. It's just that you're garbled and then you're not garbled and not, so I don't know what's going on.

Speaker 1: 6:15

Oh, neither. Well, we'll keep.

Speaker 3: 6:17

I believe the podcast recording usually.

Speaker 1: 6:19

Yeah, well, we'll. Is this changing anything? Is that any better? No, it's not, so there.

Speaker 1: 6:34

So I come from a model that I'm supposed to be able to fix everything. I'm supposed to be able to come up with the answers to all the questions, the solutions to the problems. And as long as I'm doing that, I'm fixed on this idea, or several ideas of how things are supposed to be, and I don't know. There's another alternative, and what I do is I get exhausted, trying to make you all conform to my idea of what's supposed to be, whether it's one-on-one, whether it's a group, whether it's the culture. I mean, I know everyone knows what the right thing to do is. It's just we've all got an infinite number of different ideas. So there's no community, there's no group of like-minded people, like when we talk about our recovery. We're a group of like-minded people, but we're not all alike.

Speaker 1: 7:31

So what am I really letting go of? This is in the first two steps. I'm letting go of the idea that I have some power and control. I don't have the power over the substance. I don't have the power over the quality of my life, the manageability. That's the second half of the first step. My life's unmanageable because I'm managing it with what my ideas, my beliefs and my concepts to how things are supposed to go, and I cannot understand, when that fails, that the problem is in the ideas and the beliefs and the concepts. I think the problem is in horsepower. I think the problem is in muscle. I think the problem is in effort, and this is about effortless. We don't try here, we let. I don't try and get rid of my defects, I identify them and then I try and let them go right.

Speaker 1: 8:25

So, whatever you're struggling with, what I'm struggling with ultimately is my ideas, and that's what I have to let go of. I have to let go of the way I see the world and I have to let go of the way I be in the world. And the reason I have to is because I've come to the conclusion, by examination and a track record, that my way doesn't work very well. But the problem is the way you have, is the way you were given. That imprint happened in your first six, seven years of existence and you got it from your family, then you got it from the school, then you got it from the culture. You might have got it from your religion, and that's the way it was. There wasn't an alternative.

Speaker 1: 9:06

This is what we think, this is what we believe. We like baseball, we don't like football. Stay away from the Catholics. Look out for the spicy food. You know all that stuff was poured into us. And in recovery, what we're doing or if you're in a spiritual formation process, spiritual direction what we're doing is we're unwinding all that, and the hardest thing we have to do is to change our mind. The hardest thing is to change your mind. George Bernard Shaw. All progress requires change.

Speaker 2: 9:38

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 9:40

But if you can't change your mind, you can't change anything, is the rest of that quote, and I don't know. We were talking about this before the meeting. Some of us were. It looked like a drinking problem. It looked like a drug problem, didn't it? It might have looked like a gambling problem or some other kind of problem, but once I got that to the side, there seemed to be an enormous amount of other problems that were surfacing now, and that's why in our book, in the AA book, it talks about our drinking was just a symptom. It was just a symptom. It was an acute symptom. Right, it was an acute symptom. But if drinking was the problem, not drinking would be the solution. We've all stopped drinking, and it's not the solution, right, not the solution. So it begs the question well then, what? Well then, I have to consider the possibility that I may have been wrong.

Speaker 1: 10:31

This is the beginning of the change of the mind, the awareness I can't change anything that I'm not aware of. So the first step is getting me aware of the failure of my self-reliance. So I have to let go of this idea that I'm going to control my drinking. We start there right Now. Much bigger thing I'm going to have to let go of this idea of how many people have hurt me, my resentments. I'm going to have to go to these ideas that I'm not safe. All the different versions of fear I'm not safe. All the different versions of fear I'm not safe. All the different versions of shame I'm unlovable, I'm unacceptable, I'm broken. There's something missing in me. Those things have to be identified before they can be addressed. So part of what's going on is the birth of my awareness, self-awareness Not out here awareness, in here awareness I have. The way I see the world, the way I be in the world, the way I act in the world does not serve me. How do I know that? Because I'm miserable. Even when I get my way, I'm miserable. So it's a process. Then we get into the second step and the idea is not do you believe in God? It's what do you believe in? The step says came to believe which is the past tense that there was a power and that it could restore me to sanity, wholeness, health, usefulness, completeness. I don't have to believe that 100%, but the minimum requirement is to believe in the possibility that that may be true. And where I get that hope is from watching other people, people that are recovered, people that are living this thing, these steps and these principles, are living these things from a level that I'm not familiar with Because I'm just stuck. I'm nailed to the cross with my ideas. One of my ideas are based in closed-mindedness, belligerence, intolerance, back to self right. So I have this thing. It's called the false self.

Speaker 1: 12:43

Richard Rohr talks about this. He says the first half of life is all egocentric, it's all self-centered, it's all about who am I, what do I want, what do I want my life to look like? I'm building a lifestyle, I'm building a career, I'm building this version of me. And then something happens. And second half of life doesn't mean 50 plus. It means when the first half of life stops working, crash and burn. It may be a death of a loved one, you may have a serious illness, you may go through a divorce, a career change, something that's really devastating but huge financial reversal. Oftentimes it's addiction and it brings the whole house of cards down, down.

Speaker 1: 13:28

And the question for the second half of life, it's what's meant to go into you, what's meant to go in the container that we call George, that we call Roger, that we call Matea, what's meant to go in that container. And it's not cars and it's not money, and it's not degrees, it's principles, it's qualities. Cars, and it's not money, and it's not degrees, it's principles, it's qualities of being peace, compassion, empathy, non-judgmentalism, open-mindedness, helpfulness, charity, those kinds of things which have absolutely no attraction to me when I'm new. It's just so. I have to let go of the way I see, and I can't let go of the way I see until my awareness comes to the point where I can admit to myself not to you, not to the Star Tribune to myself this idea of me has failed. My idea of how this world works has not served me. That's the only witness test. How's it working? How's it working? I'm going to argue with you about your system. You've got a system, we've all got a system, and we're all here because of system failure and we're trying to build a new system to operate from.

Speaker 1: 14:43

So now I find out that I got this noise machine. It's the human mind. That's not who I am. It's the human mind and it's just a generator of thoughts and ideas and noise. And it's there all the time, isn't it? It's there all the time. It's there right now as your brain's jumping around from thought to thought and thought. I don't control what that thought is. I mean, in a conversation with you I can proceed down a train of thought we're talking about a topic or something, I can do that but it doesn't mean I don't have brain drift when I'm identified with that noise in my head. That's the false self, that's the idea machine that's been trying to kill me. That's the idea machine that built that philosophy predicated on fear and shame. And I wrote it in the ground as far as I could.

Speaker 1: 15:38

And now that I was talking to someone about this I don't know, maybe it was someone I met today I was talking to someone about this, I don't know, maybe it was someone I met today that moment of utter and complete defeat, which felt like falling into the abyss of hell, couldn't see where I was going to land, couldn't see where I was going, couldn't see anything. That darkest moment was the breakthrough. It was the breakthrough. It was the breakthrough Because I was out of ideas, I was out of bullets, I was out of arrows. Whatever metaphor you want to use, I was out. And now there's a space for some new ideas to come in, to begin.

Speaker 1: 16:19

But as soon as I regain some balance, some abstinence, I start thinking. This thing starts thinking to me. It's saying, eh, you know it's good for you but it's not really applicable to me. You know, my dad sobered up 10 years before me and, as I've told you many times, I was his bartender. I had a front row seat for what Scotch and Percocet did to that man. I almost killed him three times and he got sober in AA. He was my ebby and I knew, damn it. I could sit in the meeting with you guys and poser, poser, poser, poser, fake, fake, fake. I don't have to believe you because I don't know your story, and if you tell me a story, I'm not even sure I'm going to believe it. But my dad's story was my story. I had a front row seat for that and I knew by his demonstration and the change in his life that there was a way out of this. So what is the process of my recovery is slowly unpacking and taking apart those ideas that haven't served me.

Speaker 1: 17:24

Self-reliance is a big one. Self-reliance is good as far as it goes, but it won't solve these kinds of inextricable problems that are based in powerlessness. I can use my self-reliance, my self-will, to get up and go to work at 8 o'clock. I can't use my self-will to forget about the resentment I have towards you. I can't use my self-will to forget about the resentment I have towards you. I can't use my self-will to forgive the offenses that I've endured and the betrayals. I can't. Self-will doesn't work that way. It doesn't work at all.

Speaker 1: 17:55

So this is back to the letting go thing. I have to let go of the way I see the world and the way I be in the world, and it starts with the awareness. The first awareness we had is I got a problem. Now I don't even know what the damn problem is, but I know there's a problem. I think I know what it is.

Speaker 1: 18:12

I think it's drinking, then I think it's drugs, then I think it's the person I'm married to, then I think it's all the people that have screwed me over in the first 30 years of my life. I think it's all that. It's not all that. All the circumstances of my life have just brought forward the character and quality of who I be. They've exposed me to me and as long as I'm in the blame mode, which is a cousin of the victim mode, I won't learn anything. As long as you're my problem, I'm just saying basically, you're going to have to change before I can be okay. You're going to have to admit your flaws and your hurt to me and the things you've done, and then maybe I will forgive you right Not going to happen.

Speaker 1: 19:00

So let it go. Let it go. Let it go. Let what go? This idea, how do I know if it's a good idea or a bad idea to use that? I don't try not to speak in dualistic terms so much. But good idea, bad idea, constructive idea, destructive idea, how do I tell? By the fruity bears I get this idea and as I, as my mind starts playing with the idea, I'm going to have one of two reactions. I'm going to have a sense of comfort and peace come over me. I'm going to have a sense of dis-ease come over me. That's the early warning system. That's the truth in me, resonating to the idea that the carnal mind, the mind-mind, has come up with. It's not my friend. It's really good for addition and subtraction. It's really bad for reading people's minds. It's really bad for understanding what is the correct approach in this given situation, any given situation.

Speaker 1: 20:05

Because if you would have known me growing up, my version of this was I called all my own shots. No one told me what to do. I mean, sometimes the police did, but no one told me what to do. In the early years, going to school as a kid, I got in some trouble with authority. Of course I did, because I don't want to be told what to do, because I'll do this my way, because it's the only way Right. And then you're sober, you find out my way is what was killing me.

Speaker 1: 20:40

Now I've got to find another way. I can't find another way until I let go of the old way. I can't find another way until I let go of the old way. I can't let go of the old way 100%. But I can start with this I'm powerless over the substance. I'm powerless to manage my life. What does that mean?

Speaker 1: 20:51

Going down the road, you find the management system. The failure is still there. I have circumstances in my life that aren't pleasant. I'd like them to be different. They're not. So. Acceptance is part of this. To believe as if a fact Okay, I got that. But the other part of this is non-resistance. Don't fight it. It is what it is. The truth is the truth. Here's a little meme I ran across I'll share with you. Truth is not what you want it to be. It is what it is. And if I don't bend to the power of that truth, I have to live in a lie. I have to be a hypocrite so I can say, yeah, I'm down with the third step. God's my source, right, that's my declaration. My demonstration is nothing of the kind. I need to know that. How do I find that out? By failure. Failure is my teacher, pain is my teacher, because I can't learn in the beginning, I can't take any direction from love. You guys praying, what are you doing? Look out, look out what are you doing?

Speaker 2: 22:04

Look out.

Speaker 1: 22:07

So I don't try, I let. So when we run up against these things that we're powerless over, like everything, the only thing that it says we have is we have freedom of free will. You get to choose. But if you can't choose, choose. But if you can't choose intelligently, if you can't choose with clarity and awareness, you keep choosing from the old choice sack. You always had Fear, shame, fear and shame. I'm not safe.

Speaker 1: 22:37

And so when I believe that is a fact, my brain collects all the data going on on an ongoing basis, real time, of all the things that support that idea. So here's an interesting thing All of a sudden I realize I'm not the noise machine, I'm not that thing that's talking to me Because I start going. I am a social. That's a silly idea. That's a stupid idea. I have myself said that's a silly idea. That's a stupid idea. That's old behavior, that's old thinking. Well, who's the observer? Now, this idea that there is my body's brain, mind, that's basically a computer that's deducing from the evidence of its five senses what is real and what's not real. And then there's something else that's observing it. That's the spirit. That's what Jesus was talking about, the divinity of man AA talks about, deep down in every one of us is the fundamental idea of this power of God, the truth, and as I become more aware of that, I'm trying to align myself with that. So, as we go through the steps and we find all the things that are blocking us from being the men and women that we want to be, those are the very things that are blocking us from having a relationship to God that we're not sure is there, or you may believe there is a God there and your belief has failed you.

Speaker 1: 24:05

I have found in my experience it's much easier to work with an atheist or agnostic than someone who says, oh no, I believe in God. Jesus Christ is my Lord and Savior. The Holy Trinity is what I base my life on. Well, what I have to help that person, see, is those are your ideas, but your beliefs seem to be contrary to your ideas, or you wouldn't be sitting here talking to me, right? So it's not the failure of the system, it's the failure of our thinking, and I need to find a way to make friends with my thinking. That means I need to find a way to make friends with my thinking. That means I need to find new thoughts.

Speaker 1: 24:46

So when we identify what we call our defects of character. We're identifying the blocks to being the people we want to be and then, ultimately, that turns out to be the blocks to me having a relationship with the God of my understanding. I don't know that when I'm doing it because I'm crazy, I'm still more crazy than I was. You know than I am saying, but I'm going through this process and the process is going to open me up Because, again, it's the failure that I. This is why I don't get along with people, because I'm scared as hell that they're going to. When they get to know me, they'll reject me.

Speaker 1: 25:23

Social instinct this is why I lie about what I'm doing for work. Security instinct Because I want you to respect me, and I think the way to get respect is to have a bunch of money and a nice car and a title and be incredibly confident, supremely confident, right, that's what I want to be. Now we're talking about the mask, the persona. This is who I want you to see, and behind that is the truth. That's the hypocrisy of this. That's what it's talking about. The personas is the mask that I create that I want the world to see. It's also what I use to keep me safe so no one can get at me Social security, sex instinct. So what I've done is I've created a way to keep me safe, which is this Sarcasm, intimidation, humor and creativity, and it's non-negotiable.

Speaker 1: 26:24

I was a musician so it was easy because it was a very small world Guys in the band, a couple club owners, some booking agents. It was pretty easy to keep that up. And so what I taught you was I'm going to be calling shots there and if you want to do battle with me, come on, bring it. If you want to call me, come on. And after that happens a couple of times, you teach people to just leave you the hell alone, because it's not worth the cost of the sarcasm, of the intimidation, of the hurt.

Speaker 1: 27:01

So I have this false sense that I'm controlling everything. I'm not. I can control behavior while it's in arm's length from me. I can make the guys do what I want them to do. We're going to rehearse at three. We'll be done when I say we're done, kind of thing. But when they're not with me, they just go back to the way they are. That's the difference between power and effect. I can create an effect, but it's unsustainable because it's not based in any real power. It's based in the power of the false self and the ego. Right? So it's a lifetime process, is it not? This letting go, this discovery?

Speaker 1: 27:39

If you look at our prayers, what do we say? My creator, I'm now willing you should follow me, good and bad, like I don't know the difference. I pray that you now remove from me every single defect, my character, that stands in the way of my usefulness to you and my fellows. Grant me strength as I go from here to do your bidding. At that point, if I did that at great depth, what it's saying is my life is no longer my business. I'm going to serve these principles, I'm going to serve this higher authority idea and I'm going to be of maximum service to those principles and the people around me. And you're saying that will be enough. We'll see, we'll see, we'll see. But if you don't run the experiment, you can't know. Look at Francis. This is an address he did to some of his monks.

Speaker 1: 28:38

Before you speak of peace, you must first have it in your heart. Before you talk to someone about recovery, have it alive in you. Right, we've been called to heal wounds, to unite what's fallen apart and to bring home any who have lost their way. I don't heal your wounds, but I can bring you to the power that will heal the wounds. I'm a way pointer. Right, put it through the lens of recovery. Right. We unite what's falling apart. What's falling apart is inside of you one, and when that starts to come together, the other parts of your life start to come together. You see, relationships get put back together. Some don't make it, some do right. And bringing home any who have lost their way. Home to what? Home to the truth? You could say, yeah, francis said home to the Father, home to the source, home to the higher power, your concept, okay. And then there's a prayer Lord, make me an instrument of your peace.

Speaker 1: 29:43

There's a great inventory question Is what I'm thinking saying about to say or do promote peace or not? If it doesn't, it's part of the problem. It might not appear at short term, but it's part of the problem. Where there's hatred, let me sow love. Where there's injury, pardon. Where there's doubt, faith. Where there's injury, pardon. Where there's doubt, faith. Where there's despair, hope. Where there's darkness, light. Where there's sadness, joy.

Speaker 1: 30:08

Let me remember that everyone has a story and my job is not to add another shitty chapter to your story. It's to help you discern that story and give you a little understanding and compassion, which was my problem. I'm screaming to be understood and to be heard and to be accepted and be forgiven. I have none of that for anyone else. Total intolerance, right, master? Grant that I may not so much seek to be consoled as to console you. See, it's going from the head to the heart. I want to be a consoler and in my consoling I am consoled Because love is reciprocal.

Speaker 1: 30:51

That's why Jesus spent so much time saying what you reap, you sow. What you sow, you reap. Sorry, I said it backwards. Right, that's the deal To be understood then, to understand, to be loved, as to love you love. The way you love. You're treated the way you treat people. It all comes back because it's all reciprocal, For it's in giving that we receive, it's in pardoning that we're pardoned.

Speaker 1: 31:27

This reciprocal idea, what I put out, comes back to me. If I'm going to lie, if I'm going to cheat, if I'm going to steal, I will be lied to and cheated and stolen from Not maybe from the person that I'm lying to right now or stealing from but it's going to come back, same with fear, same with shame. All those ideas right. So if I can forgive you, I start to be able to forgive me. That, for me, came much, much later, because forgiveness is not an act of the will, forgiveness is something that comes through my experience, through my heart. I am not the forgiver, I'm forgiven.

Speaker 1: 32:10

And when I have that experience, it's really hard to judge someone else. The beast wants to all the time, because the beast wants to tell me that I'm different and separate from you and we're not connected and there's nothing to do here. I am what I do, I am what I have, I am what you think of me. It's all external and our recovery and our prayers and our spiritual development is all internal, it's all in here. And it's taken this because we got some good ideas here, we got some right thinking, but if it doesn't get to our heart, it doesn't blossom. It doesn't bloom, it doesn't turn into a reality. Just another nice idea, let go, let God Easy, does it Shit? So okay, experience it. What I want you guys to share as experience what you've learned about letting go, what has been one of the great gifts of the lesson, or what have you not learned, or whatever. So we'll open it up to your experience on letting go Anyone. My name is Nick. Hey Nick, hey Nick.

Speaker 4: 33:21

Hey Nick, hey Nick.

Speaker 1: 33:21

Hey.

Speaker 5: 33:22

Nick, my most impactive concept of that was letting go of revenge, forgiving others.

Speaker 6: 33:37

And that baggage I carried around for that revenge level was so heavy.

Speaker 1: 33:46

Once I let it go, my life is so much better.

Speaker 5: 33:52

I don't walk around. It's different, so if you guys haven't experienced that, I hope you do. Could you guys?

Speaker 1: 34:00

have an experience? I hope you do. Could you guys on zoom hear Nick? He was talking about being free of revenge. And you're right, revenge is acid on our spirit, just like resentment. But it's even worse because the revenge is the plan to justify the resentment and right the wrong. And I can't, I can't, and it keeps me living in the past, which is what the beast uses to keep me handcuffed. Because you can't grow when you're not here, you can't pray when you're not here, you can't act right when you're not here. You'll act out of where you are. I'm in my past, I'm in revenge, I'm in the anger, I'm in the hurt, I'm in the wound. Yeah, good, Thank you. Who else? Anyone?

Speaker 2: 34:51

Craig, I have a couple of examples. One is directly related to you, roger. I called you one time, many years ago, and I said you're not going to believe it, this son of a gun stole from me. And I said you're not going to believe it, this son of a gun stole from me. And instead of getting the reaction that I wanted, which was, oh, I'm sorry, greg, but instead Roger says, well, what did you do? And instantly I knew that I had in fact made my own bet in that situation. The second example is one where I specifically had lent somebody some money and they didn't pay me back and I had a resentment. But again, through the steps and the idea of taking inventory, when I get to the end of the resentment, inventory the answer is you gave them the money and I was able to let it go on the basis of some actions that I'm taught in the big book.

Speaker 1: 35:45

Pass. And then you find in that equation not seeing you specifically. But then I reverse engineer and say what was my motive in lending that guy that money? Oh, I want it to be a big deal. I want it to be the guy. Oh yeah, I'll help you out. Right, I didn't tell him, I just gave you my grocery money because to be a big deal. I want it to be the guy. Oh yeah, I'll help you out. Right, I didn't tell him, I just gave you my grocery money because I'm a big deal. I can't. You know it's. We find out Right, action wrong, motive, right. And then we end up resenting the people we're helping and we're bitching about it. Right, zoomers, anyone Come on.

Speaker 3: 36:19

Oh, or is anyone Come on? Oh, sorry, who was that? Oh, go ahead, kristen. Oh, okay, I'm Kirsten, alcoholic, and first of all, thank you to the gentleman running around and trying to get us so that we could understand what you were talking about. Great topic. I can't wait for you to listen to the podcast when you load it so that I can hear everything you said. Roger, when you started talking, I was thinking about those 50 little statements that are always so true. That's why we hang on to them, and I like the one that is let go or be dragged.

Speaker 3: 36:56

That's what happens to me If I don't let it go. I drag myself through the worry, the fear, the regret. What did I do? I was a junk. And I'm dragging myself through a really awful, awful rumination, making crap up, whatever, I'm just dragging myself and so letting go, definitely it is is is the key.

Speaker 3: 37:24

and even when I have legitimate concerns, like things like just people are beloved to me and they're struggling or something, I can let that take me out if I'm not careful. And I spoke with a good friend last night or the night before about a situation I'm in right now and the best thing I can do is to just model peace, to do what St Francis would say right, model peace. You know, just be a good listener. All the things that are the, you know, take myself out of it, let it go, be supportive and do all of the what we call higher self things, of course, and with my human capacity to be helpful, but also sharing my stories and sharing how, if I have similarities with this person, um, you know, to just say you're all alone. You know, here's my story, just like we do in aa and uh.

Speaker 3: 38:28

It's just like roger just said, it's a lifelong lesson. I still find myself in fear, certainly, but that's what separates me from my higher power here does, because that means I've lost the faith and the hope and the trust that it's all for a reason and I've been given these circumstances on purpose and so it's opportunity. You know, there was something else that you said that I wanted to talk about, but I can't do that right now, so I will pass, and I just really appreciate this topic, roger. So thank you everybody for being here.

Speaker 1: 39:07

Thanks, kirsten. You know. What she was talking about is those times that we're in this heavy burdened circumstance and the basis of I don't think we're going to get through this. Those are the times that you're growing. Those are the times that God, or this power or this exercise, exposes to me the depth of character, power and choice that I didn't know I had. That's where you find out this is how far I've been brought because I can do this. And that's where you find out this is how far I've been brought Because I can do this. I'm not saying it's pleasant, I'm not saying I can predict when it's over or how it's going to be over or how it's going to resolve. But damn it, I'll live through it and I will grow from it. It's always the case. What are we going to say, kathy? Kathy, it's Jenny. Oh, I'm sorry, jenny, that's Jenny.

Speaker 7: 40:03

Oh, I'm sorry, Jenny, that's okay, I'm Jenny. I'm an alcoholic.

Speaker 1: 40:06

Jenny Jenny.

Speaker 7: 40:09

I love this topic too. You know what. I guess what struck me is, like all the things that you're saying, my mind knows I know these things, I know 100% that they are true. What I struggle with sometimes and it's subtle is being a single parent who's responsible for my family. Who's responsible for my family?

Speaker 7: 40:40

There's this sense of having to I don't want to say control everything, but when you're the only adult that has to take care of everything health, school, food, just literally everything, every decision it's hard to sometimes discern between am I doing enough to keep the wheels moving in the right direction for all three of us humans living here? And when are you, when are you trying to control too much? That subtle difference between have I done enough and I let go, or because there's no one else that's going to show up and take care of this or this or this, how much do you control? You know? So I think I struggle with that sometimes. Just, you know the balance between no one else is going to take care of you and these kids' lives. So it's, it's this, this kind of daily balance of you know, letting go, trusting and knowing that you're doing enough.

Speaker 7: 41:57

So I always think that's just an ongoing struggle for me, with kids, with work you know I love to in a fairly competitive job, my composition is highly leveraged by my production, what I do, by my production, what I do, and I would say, over the course of you know, the last several years I have seen this.

Speaker 7: 42:28

You know, life kind of becomes fun when you start to be resentful of this, or you know just the things it's easy to gravitate towards, to truly let it go, like I'm going to show up in my higher self doing the right things, playing right, and I have seen this tremendous kind of peace and and letting go. So I guess what I'm saying is there's every aspect of my life I've seen the results in this piece that you kind of like where is this coming from? I love this, um, but it's like whack-a-mole kind of you know every part of your life. When something else comes up right because god pulled this, it's just always something and kind of that um, trying, trying. I guess what I start with this, trying to know what am I doing enough and when am I just throwing it over and saying, god, you, you take this. You know you're in control.

Speaker 7: 43:30

So I I'm learning and I, you know, getting through that every week. But if I'm being honest, that's you know, something that I I think, especially for single parents, it can be hard to know when to turn things over and when am I doing enough.

Speaker 1: 43:48

So that's what I got. Thanks, jenny, thanks Jenny. I was a single parent and there's a Gibran saying that I love, and I can't recite the whole thing, but it's something like this your children are not your children. They come through you. You're the archer, they're the arrow, you aim them and as we go, as your kids develop, they start making their own decisions and choices.

Speaker 1: 44:14

So my thing with my boy was I just want to give him a solid foundation emotionally. With my boy was I just want to give him a solid foundation emotionally, right that he has a sense of who he is and his value. And I will demonstrate the principles that I want to instill in him, because kids learn through observation and repetition and if they see you being crazy, they get crazy too, you know. And anyway, that's part of the trip that I had. And then, when my kid went off the rails, I had the other part this is the let go part and I watched him, because one of the things that we do as parents is we want to prevent our kids from making the mistakes we made, and I'm really good at mistakes. I've got quite a robust history of errors and I'm fortunate to have lived through most of them. So that's the fear. But the antidote to fear is not control, it's letting go. And so when my son divorced me and he went off on his own to do his thing, all I could do was, if there's a power that can restore my life to what it is, that same power is available to him, and my prayer is that he finds that power before he finds the end of his life right.

Speaker 1: 45:36

And that's not easy, and it didn't go away immediately. It took a couple years because I didn't talk to him for several years because he was off doing his thing. And one day I was living near a nature center. I'd like to get up in the morning and watch everything wake up, watch the early morning fog lift off the pond and hear the animals coming alive. And I came back from one morning like that, because that's where I did my prayer, meditation. I was tired and I laid in bed and I took a little nap and I woke up and I felt really weird. I felt different and I didn't know what it was. And it took me about two days to realize I'm not worried about him anymore. It's gone, it's been removed, it's been lifted out. It doesn't mean I don't love you and I don't care. It means I'm not in charge of the outcome and I never was.

Speaker 9: 46:34

Okay, that's enough. Anyone else?

Speaker 1: 46:37

Hey Andy.

Speaker 9: 46:39

Yeah, let it go. The first one, the first time, and I think that would say that I remember saying let it go. I need to control this idea of letting others think that I'm okay. Right, I knew for a really long time that I wasn't okay, but I wanted to save this picture to everybody that, no, I'm doing just fine, and it was letting that down and saying I'm out, okay, wouldn't like to start right. And my uncle, my godfather, who called me when I was in Trinity, called me a couple weeks before that.

Speaker 1: 47:19

Did he freeze? Andy, you froze.

Speaker 4: 47:27

Is that back? Yeah, you're back.

Speaker 9: 47:31

In case of the answer about anybody this and that a couple weeks later, when I let down that need to control, I could admit like, yeah, you have to do it. But I said I don't know what I think, and he relates to other people at that point. So I think Andy's in a really good place and the reason why he'd say that is because he knew at that point oh, I think Andy's a really good player and the reason why he'd say that is because he knew at that point that bottom was the opportunity to meet the power of God's source, Don't think? Yeah, he was right. So that was the, that letting go was the start. And, like you say, Roger, it didn't feel like an esteemable great moment at the time.

Speaker 9: 48:07

so I'm listening, thank God, I look back on it, you know, and feel grateful for it now.

Speaker 1: 48:15

Thanks, Andy. Oftentimes the breakdown is the breakthrough. When it all comes tumbling down, that's the opportunity to break through to something else. Because as long as I think I have an idea that might work, I'll run it. I'll run it, hey, George.

Speaker 8: 48:36

You know, it's just funny. You say that because I haven't seen Roger for several years and I called him up and I said come on, meet me at a restaurant or a coffee shop. And we went out to the car afterwards and I said listen, this is going wrong, this is going wrong. And I had a new life. Well, my life had grown and it was full, I had a Wi-Fi, other things had advanced. And I said, hey, man, this is going wrong, this is going wrong, this is going wrong. And Roger gets out of the car and sort of starts laughing at me and says so you're telling me all the stuff that you used to talk to me about that you really made efforts to change. He goes you're not repeating those actions anymore. I'm like, yeah, and he just left and he walked away from the car.

Speaker 1: 49:22

What a compassionate guy.

Speaker 8: 49:25

But you laughed wholeheartedly.

Speaker 8: 49:27

And thank you for that. But the point I was getting at, you know, that subterranean fear that I have had from day one, not recognized for what it was until years later, of course, of course controlled everything. I mean my arrogance, all arrived from fear, you know it was. And my externals look at me instead of me. And oh, I was. I was so much in pain.

Speaker 8: 49:53

And you know, I heard you speak at a big meeting and you made a statement about you know what, if I hadn't found alcohol, I don't know what I would have done. And I was sitting there in the audience and we already met, we were at Squad 73 together, but I just froze and I looked down, I couldn't even look around me because I assumed, naturally, that everybody knew that's this. I was that same guy, you know because and now I? Because I thought what would I have done if I hadn't found booze at like 15 or 16? Because I not, I did not feel right and I might have taken some other actions, and so, fortunately, I found those.

Speaker 8: 50:34

But the point I wanted to get at, you know, I can talk about me for a long time, but the point, the repetitive actions in service and doing worthy things and esteemable acts, worthy actions you know Everybody's talked about this but the repetition of those, and even as simple as in a meeting it's like greeting a person you say, hi, all these things help for me to be free of my fear. My repetitive actions and doing these things I finally arrive at the point, hey, I am okay. And it starts to define really my why I'm here up on this earth and I haven't talked to you about that for a long time, but years back. And hey, when you get to that point and I'm not a great example- of it you know for.

Speaker 8: 51:24

But when you get to that point it's like you gain a lot of freedom. And it also speaks to hey, you can only arrive there if there is a higher power. You know, my, my faith isn't perfect, but you know, I can't believe this happened, that I'm this way, that all of us work this way, that if, from two rocks colliding together in the sky you know that's more unbelievable than hey there was somebody influencing us in our direction. Anyway, I'll pass.

Speaker 1: 51:58

Thanks, george. The laughter is identification. But just for clarification, I'm not laughing at him, I'm laughing because me too. Yeah, who else Zoomer anyone? I'm Tom. Hey, tom, tom.

Speaker 4: 52:21

You know I think what? Completely, robert. I think I heard you say about our life as a story and I really thought about that. I think I heard you say about how life is a story and I really thought about that. I really don't hold everything as living, just what's so. Here's the fact. I turn it into a particular story and there have been.

Speaker 4: 52:39

You know you talk about forgiveness. I do a process that I try to people come up in my life that somehow it's an irritation. I do a forgiveness process. I want to have it clean and clear with all those people. But I really had a kind of had an epiphany this week and then I said, given my faith, god will forgive me of all my indiscretions, all my sins, and I'm forgiving others. Really, I need to be forgiving myself and not hanging on to shame, guilt or bad feelings about something that might have happened 20, 30, 40, 50 years ago. So in forgiveness it is about me, it is about forgiving others. But then also I've really been diligent, really really looking at just forgiving myself for whatever those little things that the beast says to me. So I'll pass.

Speaker 8: 53:46

Thanks, Tom.

Speaker 1: 53:47

Thanks, tom. Who else Matea? Matea, how do?

Speaker 5: 53:56

you do. I was just thinking I'm working on my events and there's one in particular that I was tasked to write out and I'm like I just can't even put my pen to the paper. I thought I had let it go. I thought that resentment was fine after I did my work in fifth step, because all the other names on my list are okay, but this one particular one, and I just I didn't realize it was still so alive that I hadn't let it go until I started really looking at it, and so this is just a really good reminder that there's more work to be done and a great one-up sponsor that can help me walk through that, because I can't let go of it on my own. I need my higher power and I need a little bit more awareness. I think into how to feel so better.

Speaker 1: 54:46

It's interesting because can't is a lie. The beast says I can't do this. And it's really. I won't do this Because if I let you do this, you're going to get free and I'll have less control over you than before. That's why we don't do absolution here, we do restitution. I go back and I own it, it and I take responsibility for it. And now the beast has no way to handcuff me to the past. Slow freedom from the past, right, and the more you get of it, the more you're inclined to want to keep doing it. But we always get to those places that this is non-negotiable I'll never do this, I'll never do this. I'll never do this. I'll never do this, I'll never do that.

Speaker 1: 55:30

I had a whole list of nevers Never go to the same meeting twice. Never going to have a job in AA, never going to talk in AA, never going to get a sponsor, never going to never, never, never. And over those first eight years all those nevers started falling away. And it's the same with your amends. I've done some amends and I've got some relief. I've got some healing, I made some progress. And now the beast says hey, you've been doing a really good job. Why don't you just take a break here, tap the brakes. You're busy, you've got kids school's starting and we got all this stuff going on, right, you got to work. Oh geez, not true. Not true, it's not to say all those things aren't facts, but how I relate to the facts is the important piece, right, and I got to realize that there's a part of me, my human mind, that doesn't want me to get well. The false self does not want me to get well. It'll, let me change a little bit. It'll let me go to some meetings, let me do a few amends, but then we're going to come up with the non-negotiables Not going to do this, not going to do this. I had an experience with this, with a well many experiences with this.

Speaker 1: 56:43

But an example of someone who's been molested by a family member, and when this molestation started was when she was 16 and ended when she was 18. And she's now 35. And it's not a question is this right or wrong? It's horrible behavior. It's horrible behavior. But the real question is what are you going to do about it? And she didn't like it, but the conversation evolved to this.

Speaker 1: 57:20

You know, I understand what was done to you was horrific. It was a huge, incredible betrayal. We agree on that. But that person hasn't touched you in 17 years, but you've let him violate you every day in that memory. That's why we got to get free of the memory. I cannot forgive you on the basis of self-will.

Speaker 1: 57:44

So I start with understanding. What does our book say about resentment? Perhaps this is a spiritually sick person. Though I don't like what they did and how it affected me, they like me. You're sick too. That's easy to say, much harder to believe.

Speaker 1: 58:02

But that's the on-ramp to compassion and empathy understanding. Who does that? People that have had that done to them? Who does that People that have had that done to them? No one's born that way, right. So I need to find a different understanding. That's a long road of recovery to those big wounds, but if I don't address them, they stay and they fester, and so you never get totally free of the past, because the beast is his favorite thing.

Speaker 1: 58:26

Remember this, what about that? Remember this, what about that? Remember this, what about that? And then the other two statements is like is you should, should have, you ought to? Right Now you're in the future and the past again. It's just like it's insidious.

Speaker 1: 58:39

I'm doing the best I can I need evidence? George, you were talking about it. It's the 11-step reflection. At the end of the day, did I give more than I took? Really simple, was I helpful? Was I seeing what I could put into the day or what I could get out of it? And the days that I think more about how can I help you or make someone else's way a little easier those days seem to be a lot more satisfying. I wonder if there's anything to that. You know it's not the cure for cancer, it's for me. It's just little things.

Speaker 1: 59:11

I'm going to the grocery store. Someone threw a bunch of trash down. Pick the trash up, take it in. You don't need a fricking metal and a band, you just do it because it's to be done. Someone didn't put their cart away. The beast says God, why don't? You can't? I am believed by people. I just don't even take care of their business. Just pick the card up, drive it in and you're fine. You need a card anyway. Maybe it's a gift, I got a card, but it's all in the way we see it. It's all in the way we see it and we see it from where we be, from who we be. That's our consciousness. And if I'm afraid and I'm full of shame. That's how I see the world. I don't see the world as it is. I see it as I am and when I am changes, all of this changes. What's another favorite? Piss off People walking around on their cell phones in public places with an unspeaker having a conversation. It's like really Do I want to hear this?

Speaker 8: 1:00:10

You know, roger, I will hear people share a meeting, possibly, or I will see occurrences on the street. I read about things and where, you know, I got sober later in life and I had a lot of time out there to do some of those things and it used to be I would die inside. You know, you cringe internally, and you know, and not molestation. But there are situations where I hear it, you know, and I'm like how can a person get to that point? And I know how a person got to that point. I might not have done the same thing, but I know how far down the path I've gone in a couple of directions and it's tough, honestly, but it's like you got it.

Speaker 1: 1:00:55

Yeah, to your point. One of the things I do with that is if I knew this person's story, if I knew the whole damn story, I might do exactly what they did in that situation, or worse. That's the compassion, that's the pause. I got to stop and see this a little differently, otherwise it just owns me, it just eats me alive, because why is everyone the way I am? Why does everyone think like me? Why does everyone act like me? You know it's silly to hear it out loud, but that's really what I'm saying, because I think I know what should be the right thing for everybody and everything to do and what should be happening. I don't have any idea. Some of the things that I thought were the worst things that happened to me were the best things, but it took time for that to roll out. It took time. Zubern's last call what do you? Got Anyone?

Speaker 6: 1:01:54

Hey everybody, Paul.

Speaker 1: 1:01:55

Allen, hey, paulie, nice to see everybody tonight.

Speaker 6: 1:02:02

This is all really good, really good sheriffs, I think.

Speaker 6: 1:02:05

Really good shares.

Speaker 6: 1:02:05

I think one of the things in terms of playing golf for me was the idea that my entire life I've been a victim of circumstances beyond my control and that victim mentality started when I was a little kid and carried it forward in hundreds of different ways and kind of through the inventory process and becoming part of this program.

Speaker 6: 1:02:36

I really wasn't able to break that down and understand it for what it was and to be able to let that go was a complete shift for me. And to let it go, I think somebody else mentioned, without feeling shameful about it, and how I use the victim role to ultimately control everybody, everybody around, which is crazy, like how can I be controlling anybody? I'm a victim here, right? And it was a pretty wild wake-up call and realization and just thinking of being working on that every day, because it still obviously crops up in my daily, you know, and just the community being working on that every day, because it still obviously crops up in my daily, you know interactions with the settlers. But that awareness and the ability to let it go through, you know, through the steps, was totally changing. For me.

Speaker 1: 1:03:43

So that's all I got. Thanks everybody. Thanks Paul. Closing thought we spent a lot of time talking about the third step prayer. It's an offering. Nothing's happened there.

Speaker 1: 1:03:57

I offer myself to thee to build with me and do with me as thou wilt. God's will that's what I'm offering, not my will, for God's will Relieve me of the bondage of self. Why Not? So I feel better, so I can better do. God's will Take away my difficulties. Why so? Victory over them will bear witness to George. This is possible. Right To those I would help with thy power, thy love and thy way of life. May I do that will always. Now, if you put that against the seven-step prayer, that's the whole prayer I offer myself and then I give myself. I don't know what I'm offering. When I do the third step and you find out what you're offering between four and seven, oh, that's what I'm offering. Yeah, because all that stuff. You're powerless over All your fears. You're powerless over All your resentments. You're powerless over All your fears. You're powerless over All your resentments. You're powerless over your past. You're powerless over that's why I need to put myself in a different basis, a different power. So, thanks for being here and we'll say goodnight, goodnight, thanks, roger.

Speaker 1: 1:05:02

Thanks everybody, zoomers, thank you, thanks everybody.