The Gathering With Roger B.
The Gathering’s talks are generally tied to one or more of the 12 Steps, but are always guided by spiritual concepts, principles and ideas common to most faiths. Topics are drawn from a variety of sources: the 12 steps, many of the well-known wisdom texts, science and other teachers that speak to a spiritual solution to life's challenges. About Roger B. Roger has been in recovery for over 46 years and has spent thousands of hours in service, sharing his experience, strength and hope. He has created curriculum for treatment centers, and lead workshops and retreats throughout the United States and Canada. Roger is a Certified Spiritual Director, and offers insight into spiritually-based living skills that are relevant to all people – whether in recovery or not. Roger is the first to admit that his long-term sobriety was brought about by the “trial-and-error method.” His experience reveals what has worked, and - perhaps more importantly - what has not worked, but taught him valuable life lessons. Roger B. and The Gathering with Roger B. are not affiliated, or endorsed by any third parties or 12-step programs. The Gathering on Zoom first and Third Wed 7pm CT id 728-200-4166 password 513915 downloads at www.gstl.ecwid.com
The Gathering With Roger B.
#95 The Beast Fear and Resentment
We all have that voice inside us...the Inner Critic, the Narrator, the Boss, the Director...mine is the Beast. The voice that has been in control of me since I was a little boy. But it didn't tell me it was the Beast, it told me it was "The Answer" answer to my fear, frustration, inferiority, hopelessness and futility. The beast uses Fear (future) and Resentment (the past) to control me and keep me out of the present. The only moment that is real, the only moment where change can occur. We had a really solid discussion tonight..enjoy!
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I'm Roger. I'm an alcoholic. I've been served since October 11, 1978. For those of you listening online, when you pull up a talk, there's two links. The top link is to send me a message. The bottom link is to support the podcast. And that's a monthly contribution. You can come in at three, five, eight, or ten dollars a month. It would help defer the cost of this. Um, having said that, let's get into the business at hand. I want to tell you a story about someone that I met. So I'm a little boy, and some of you have grown up in homes with active addiction, and it's it's not a fun place. So I'm a little boy, and I'm full of fear, I'm full of apprehension, I'm full of question marks with no answers. And when I can't get that affirmation, that love, that confirmation in my family, you instinctively go out to the next group. Could be your relatives, aunts, uncles, could be your peer group, then it's school, then it may be church that you're um exposed to. And out of all that, before I have language and before I have life experience, I'm forming my approach to the world. I don't know that because it's not conscious. It's happening through the amygdala and the experiences that I'm having. And so I cop this attitude, and the attitude, angle of approach, is this. I'm not safe. I'll do this my way. Meaning everything. I'll do this my way, life. I don't know why I'm the way I am, but it seems like everyone else is doing much better than me. So I'm watching my friends, they seem to be happy. Everyone seems to know how everything works except me. And then at 14, I had my first drink, and my new friend appeared. And the friend said, I got you back. We're gonna be okay. We're gonna get you through this. Just trust me, just trust me. And then as you grow in your teen years and it's and you're having relationships, you're having these experiences, it's saying, just stay with me here. I'll be your counsel, I'll I'll get you through this. No problem, no problem. And then uh I get down the road with that thing, and I'm having some really good experiences with this, my new friend, alcohol. And uh I start getting some consequences, and because the alcohol has always been my solution, I can't see it as a problem. But as its effect diminishes, I need more to get the same effect. One, and two, I'll start adding other chemicals to it to get that effect. Because what I don't understand is I have a quiet frustration and desperation inside me. I thought it was drive, I thought it was a desire for success, and I used that as a propellant. I didn't know it was futility and hopelessness, and then we get down the road, and my friend, then um the realization was this friend is not my friend. This friend has asked me, and I signed up to go along with the deal, but I didn't know there was a cost, and the cost was my soul, the cost was my spirit, the cost was my thoughts. I gave everything up to the beast, and he disguised it as a loving, romantic relationship. If I would just give him, I'd call him, I gave him a male personality, but but just give him the control panel. The promise was I'd be taken care of and be safe. And it was a lie, but by the time I figured out it was a lie, I had no other options. So I'm gonna ride this thing to wherever it goes, which is death. So we pop into recovery. I got sober when I was 30. And that's the package. I'll do this my way. There is no God. You better figure this thing out yourself because no one's there to help you. And by the way, I can't tell anyone I need help because that would be weak, and that would make me vulnerable to being laughed at, ostracized, humiliated. So we're not going there. So this relationship with the beast and my idea of I'll do this my way, which we understand in 12-step recovery of self-reliance, is killing me. And I don't have an alternative. So I get here, and we have to start unpacking stuff. If I don't know if any of you are in early recovery, but it doesn't matter if you're in recovery or not, if you're having a life, regardless of where you're at in it, the challenge is the same. Where am I going to make my decisions from? And before I got to recovery, I didn't know there was an option. I didn't know there was another platform I could make decisions from. So I'm living out of fear, I'm living out of dishonesty, I'm living out of manipulation, I'm living out of self-pity, I'm living out of manipulation, justification, sarcasm. And what ends up the product of that is what? Isolation. Isolation? Depression? Absolutely. Absolutely. Turns out, later on, the depression was a good sign because it said I had a conscience. And I didn't know that. I didn't know that all the things I was doing to survive that was hurting you was also hurting me. And it offended my sense of what's right, what's wrong, justice, right? So we get into recovery, and what we're doing here is we're unpacking that false program for happiness that we developed in conjunction with our shame and our fear, right? And we built a system of thought and action around it. We got to the point where it doesn't work anymore. Now we're in recovery, and they're saying, hey, here's what we do. We got to admit some things to allow in some things. What things? You're powerless. I don't like that idea. Because I've been operating on the idea that I am the power. I am the power, I, me, mine. Everything's about that. I, me, mine. The universe is Raja centric. So if you're in my life, the question is, what do you bring into me? What do you have for me? If you don't have anything for me, get out of here. I got no time for you. You're invisible. So this is the beginning of the unwinding. Can I allow in this idea? You know, the problem is you're powerless over the substance. I had enough evidence that that was pretty evident, but I had no alternative. So I was just going to drink till I died because there was no way out. But now they say, you admit this condition of powerlessness, and then they sneak the other half of the first step in on us, and your life's unmanageable. That's because you're powerless to manage your life. Now that's a different equation. And what happens? The beast, my old buddy, the beast starts pushing back. We don't want to be powerless. That's not very manly. That's not very masculine. That's not very cool at all to be powerless as viewers to say, I need help. A lot of people die because they can't say I need help. I've seen them die because they can't accept help. So this is the beginning of the unwinding. And I have to build a life that works. And I can't do that. So steps four through seven are about what is in the way, what is the emotional debris? What are the facts that stop you from producing the life you want to have? And every step forward I make, the beast is going to be there with a yah, but what about this? Yabba, what about that? What does the beast use? It uses the past. Don't forget all the crappy things you've done. Don't forget all the people you've hurt. Don't forget that you abandoned your family. Don't forget what a creep you were, a horrible son, horrible brother, horrible everything. Don't forget that. Past. And then when it's not doing that, it'll say, Where's this going? I just got an honest question here. Where's this going? Future tense. Where's what going? Your life. What do you care? Whatever it goes, it's going to be better than where it was. No, no, no. The beast is saying, what do we get? Don't we want to know? Don't we want to know? Isn't it important to know where this is going? Because I might not like it. What if I don't like it? You know? When I came in, the guys would say this, they'd say stuff like, just do this. If you don't like it, we'll buy you your first bottle. But just do it. And uh and the wisdom in that is this this is not an intellectually based program. We use our intellect to discern and write lists and ask questions. But it's experiential until you do it, you can't know if it works. And when you do it and it works poorly, it's not because it doesn't work, it's because I haven't done it at sufficient depth. And all the while the beast is beaten on me back and forth with future, imagination, past, resentment, fear, right? And that's what controls me. That's why when you're starting to make progress and you're feeling good in this thing, that's when the beast comes in and says, Well, you know, it's not gonna last. And it starts undermining it because it needs to control. So a lot of times when we think we've reached a place in our recovery, and then it all seems to be going to hell, it's because the beast is reasserting itself because it's fighting for its life. And its life is predicated on controlling mine. It's parasitic. But it needs to control me. And the more healthy you and I get, the less control the beast has. So there'll be periods that seem to be rather enjoyable and calm, and there'll other be periods that seem to be like there's a war going on in my head again. That's growth. The struggle is growth. You come out of the struggle stronger because you have some tools to rely on at this point. You have prayer, meditation, and inventory. You have a concept of a higher authority or God as you understand it. And that's what is the basis of everything I'm doing. Steps one and two. And it doesn't mean that I have to create an entire theology. It means I have to have a valid, sincere starting point. I'm willing to believe in the possibility that this power exists. And the beast says, but it won't work for you, kid. Right? But I'm willing to believe it because of what? Observation. I'm sitting in meetings and I'm seeing men and I hear their stories and I sense the truth of it. Because we have great BS detectors. You can tell when someone's just talking out their head with a bunch of information and quotes and page numbers, and it's not alive. You can feel that. But when someone comes in and they're honest and they're sincere and they're sharing an experience, you can feel that too. You can feel that when you walk in the room, you feel it. So the battle is past and future. That's the beast game. That's how it keeps us firmly planted in mid-air. Because the fear, the future hasn't happened, and the past is dead. But it's not dead because when I recall that unresolved issue, it's now here in the moment and it's alive. Because I'm feeding it, I'm animating it with my thoughts. That's why we got to do amends. That's why we're going to do six through nine. The restitution and the reformation, the change to implement the change in who I be. Not what I do, but how I do what I do is about who I be. And then it uses fear. And this is tricky because we have an imaging faculty. We can we can imagine chat. In fact, that's how you create your quarterly plan for your job. That's how you plan your budget, that's how you get an idea that's in your imagination. Then imagine how do I get this from the idea to the reality? That's a good use of your imagination. But we don't use our imagination consciously, most of us, because the beast has taken it over and it uses us. And every time the beast is whipping up a story for us, it's always of a nightmarish order. It's always something that undermines what we're doing. It's always something to say, you're not quite there, you kid. And by the way, you're never going to be there. That's what you got. That's your problem. Because you've done some unfiguravable things. And and the beast is defining the reality. I need to understand. The reason I said I gave it a name is in a book that I read, it says, uh, fear was an evil and corroding threat. Our lives were shot through with it. It they turned into a thing. It set in motion trains of circumstances I felt I didn't deserve. I made decisions based on fear that caused me problems, caused me pain, caused me consternation. Didn't work. And so there's a prayer included with that. And it's a great prayer. It says, God or whatever you pray to, mystery, big wall, the universe, Christ, the light, the divinity, remove my fear and direct my attention to what you would have me be, not do. The beast always wants us in action. Do this, fix this, change that. No, be. Now I have to choose. Be kind, be compassionate, be faithful, be prayerful, be empathetic, be tolerant, be forgiving. Any any of those higher principles will do. Because the other thing the beast wants us to do is work on the problem. So I'm afraid. And the beast says, you need to work on that. No, that's the opposite. When I work on my fear, I just get more fear. It just amplifies it. And then it grows. When I recognize the fear with my 10th, 11th step work, when I recognize the fear, I turn away to the higher consciousness idea. Any one of them will do. And then I ask the question so I'm going to be tolerant. What would tolerance look like? And then you'll have a menu of options. You know, don't be judgmental, don't be argumentative, be kind, be listening, be still, be quiet, you know, and I can choose then from that. When I'm in the fear, I'll choose from the negative. I'll always create more negativity. So the other one about the past, it's about perception of my harms done to me. How I've been hurt, how I've been threatened, how I've been undermined, who or what has done that. You know, this is a resentment list, right? It's a refeeling of past injury or harm. And I get it all down, I look at it, and the exercise is to realize how much my past dominates me. It owns me. So what do I do about it? And says, well, here's what we did. This is our course. So even though we don't like what they did, who they are, what they did, and how it affected us, like us, they were sick too. Perhaps spiritually sick. Really? That's a stretch, but I think I can do that. It's you know, maybe. Um because here's the thing, they've just introduced us to compassion and empathy. And there's a there's a a law of of consciousness and and connection with the creator, but you have to give to receive. You have to give to receive. So, example, in my world, I want to be appreciated, but I have no appreciation for anyone else. I want to be understood, but I have no understanding for you. I want to be loved, but I have no love for you. It's all about me. And so when I can start to be compassionate, to be kind, then the kindness can come back. It's the law of karma. You reap what you sow. And it starts with me planting the seeds. And I have not been doing this consciously in my life. This is all the beasts' work. Because when the crop comes in, it sucks. It's bitter, it's repugnant. So they say, understand this person as being sick. Don't argue, don't criticize. And when you get scared, when you get angry, ask God to remove it. Because I have to disengage. Now, the other part that we have is restitution. I have to go back to the people I've harmed if I don't create more harm in so doing, and own that, take responsibility for it. But also, implied in that is I'm gonna change. I'm gonna change. And the beast doesn't want change. The beast will let us go to meetings, the beast will let us go to counseling, the beast will let us go to therapy, the beast will let us go to treatment and detox, but it won't let us change. So we end up with a head full of solution and no application. Beast wins. This is hard because we grow up in such a hyper competitive culture. That's why we have these gatherings. That's why we have these meetings, that's why I have my sponsees, and they have me, and I have a sponsor. That's why, and we have this great meeting on Monday night, and we have this gathering on the first and third Wednesdays because we need a safe place to explore these ideas. And in that, we gather the creator. As I was meeting with Paul this afternoon. There's always three of us. I'm talking to Andy. There's Andy, there's me, and there's God. There's Paul, there's me, and there's God. There's Bill, there's me and my God. There's you guys and me and God. And that power is influencing the conversation. Because I have to, if I'm going to share, I have to share the truth. If I know it. I have to share the fear. I have to share the questions. Because until we get our questions answered, the beast just uses it for ammunition and tells us we're fake, tells us we're phony, tells us we're phoning in, we're hypocrites. You know? And these things I think are a lifetime's work. I don't want to depress anyone. But for me, I'll give you an example. The biggest, biggest flaw I have is dishonesty. I was lying from the time I could talk. And the reason we lie is why. Because we think the lie makes us better look look better than the truth. That's the only reason you lie. So I want to convince you that I'm someone I'm not. I want to convince you I'm where you are. We're on the same page, because then I'm safe, right? So it's a process. So there's honesty. I didn't become honest overnight, but what I noticed was that the dishonesty was getting more hard to do. It was getting harder to keep lying. Because once you know the truth about it, you can't deny it. And that truth is in there too, just like all the lies. And so it builds and builds and builds. This is my conscience, right? I don't want to be that guy that lies. I don't want to be that guy that manipulates. And it takes time because it's my longest practice response to the stimulus, social, conversations, business, work, whatever it is, that's my go-to. That's what I've always been. That's why we sober up and go, I really don't know who the hell I am. Because I've told so many stories about me. If if you lined up 10 people that know me and said, describe Roger, they'd have they'd sound like they're describing 10 different people. Because I figured you out and I let you know what you needed to hear and how you needed to hear it. So you were not a threat. Right? So anyway, the beast is always playing that game. It's always grabbing me in the and taking me into the future, which hasn't happened, and dragging me into the past, which is dead. Once I've done the restitution, those things have no power to arm me. Because now when the beast throws up that memory, I can say, but I changed that. I addressed that. I'm not that way anymore. And it's so critical because I can't I can't do an amend to Paul for a misdeed and allow myself to keep doing the misdeed to other people. This is the question. When I'm going to do the amend, are you willing to do that? Yes, I am. But now are you willing to change that globally? Are you willing to quit lying to everybody? And then the beast says, even the IRS? I mean, how honest are we talking about here? Right? It's always equivocating. How good do I have to be? I, you know, I came in on an F minus. A C looks pretty good to me. If I could just be average, you know, how good do you have to be? As good as you can be. And then that goodness keeps changing, it keeps evolving. We keep growing, and I'm better and better and better until the guy I am today does not resemble the guy I was at all before. That guy slowly got put to rest. But it's a process, and you have to stay in the process. This is perseverance, this is commitment, this is responsibility to the call. And the call is to a higher, greater thing than yourself. We call it recovery, someone else will call it religion or the Holy Spirit. It doesn't matter what you call it. It matters that you find a way to identify it or something like it and grow towards it. And as you do and your experiences multiply, that concept keeps growing and evolving. My first concept of my higher power was a phenomenon. I was a musician. I had a layoff and I detoxed with some guys in the house, and and seven days later I was back on stage playing. And I was in my environment, free drugs, free booze, and available women. And nothing touched me. There was no temptation. There was no temptation. By the way, on that note, temptation is not external, it's internal. The world isn't tempting me. The beast is tempting me with an idea. That would feel good. She looks nice. That's someone just lost the money. I guess that's a windfall for me. Not who lost their money, who lost their bill full, that kind of thing. And for me, it's it's a process. It gets gentler as you diffuse the beast as you go along. It it has less and less power. It's not that it's not there, but now in the in the beginning, I was enslaved to it. Now it's just an early warning system. Oh, there's the beast. I recognize him. There he is. Why? Because it's really simple. Is this idea what I'm thinking about to say or do? Is it loving? Is it kind? And if it's God, the answer will be yeah. And if it's not, you deal with the beast, some dimension of the beast. You can still do it, but you can't avoid the consequence of the choice. So we're learning to choose more wisely, choose from a higher place, and we get better results. That's simple. So let's throw it open to your experience with fear, resentment, what you call the beast. Some people call it the ego, some people call it the addiction. You called it the shadow self, false self, whatever. That thing that's trying to kill me. That's what we're talking about. And that thing resides in my thinking, it does not reside anywhere else. And when my thinking changes, miraculously the world appears to have changed. The only thing that's changed is the way I'm seeing it. So floor's open. Help yourself. One at a time. Someone's got to be first. Come on.
SPEAKER_06:Hey Roger. Oh, go ahead, Bill.
SPEAKER_05:Oh, hey, I just wanted to say uh really uh enjoyed your talk. Um what what stuck out to me is you use the word perseverance, which is sort of my word of the week. And um I'm just I'm at 20 years sober, I'm doing all the things, you know. I'm I'm a man of action. And uh, you know, I've I've just been um I call it the narrator, you know, the voice, you know what I mean? And it's been it's it's been giving me the old imposter syndrome talk. I don't know if anybody can relate to that, but I've just been like, who do you think are managed?
SPEAKER_07:Explain it to them, Bill.
SPEAKER_05:Okay, so um um it's just uh it it it seems like it comes at me when I'm trying to do the good, right? And and I do, I'm intentional about trying to, you know, show up and suit up and all of that stuff, but it seems like um it seems like it comes at me with, you know, you use the past and the future as a couple of different ideas about what gets me off my game. I I'm so I'm such a rear view mirror guy. I I don't in the moment, I cannot identify what it is, but I know the feeling. And uh the narrator kind of comes at me, the voice in my head, um, with um, you know, um, and and maybe it's just some past stuff like you were talking about or whatever, but it just it wants it it wants to get me on the ropes. It's like, you know, um and there's a a certain and and and maybe it's just a period of the life that I'm in where I'm sort of um, you know, I was trying to grow my business, grow my life, and I'm I'm kind of in a place where I'm trying to, I'm in a reducing phase where it seems like um my relevance is sort of taken down a bit. And uh so it wants to kind of come in and and uh um you know tell me the things like, hey, you know, uh I don't who, you know, you can't do that. Like, who do you think you are? You know what I mean? It's just it's it's kind of a negative self-talk loop.
SPEAKER_07:Well, it's shame.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah, maybe that's it.
SPEAKER_07:You don't deserve this. You've done some unprincipled things. You're dirty, you're broken.
SPEAKER_05:Right. Right. So anyway, um, I'm just you know, it's funny because I've it's been a full day of um, you know, what one thing I am aware of is that when I straighten out spiritually, uh, that's the trick, right? Like I've gotta get right spiritually because all these other powerless things, uh, these other unmanageabilities um seem to um not have um a lot of power over me when my spirit is calm and when I'm directed. You know, I'm always I always use the thing when I when I go vertical, everything works well on the horizontal. When I get connected, I get I get directed, right? And um I've just been kind of wonky lately. And oh, here's the here's what the narrator says. Um it's it's like um, oh, you should be much better by now. You're 20 years sober. Jesus, man. You're you're you should you should be so much better than this. And by the way, you should not have to ask for so much help. I mean, honestly, I think I need more help now than I ever have. What's that about? I should be better by now.
SPEAKER_07:And so one of the tools to be
SPEAKER_01:uses the narrator uses on us is you're you're over here now and you don't need all this other stuff right you don't need so many meetings you don't need to talk to those guys so much come with me i've got a really good idea yeah so i don't know i'm just telling on myself i'm 20 years sober i'm engaged but i i just feel a little wonky i'm not all that well um and when i get in in these places i what i try and do is the opposite of what my brain tells me my brain my brain tells me take a break i've had two service commitments this is my third meeting today 20 years in you know what i mean so i just i gotta i i i go at my recovery like i used to go at the coke dealer at closing time that's just how i roll it's so coming home with me so uh anyway i hope that's helpful to somebody i'm just uh telling them myself uh one thing you said about the truth is it does have a certain frequency and i think one of the most powerful things i hear in any meeting is hey i'm not doing that great you know what i mean i'm not doing that great and so i'm i'm reporting in not that well but uh you know i'm the my word of the week is perseverance and i'm gonna keep showing up at these meetings and i'm gonna and i'm i'm gonna keep praying meditating self-reflecting and and uh you know i work with my hands and my feet a lot so i just keep i keep that stuff moving and it quiets the narrator and uh so anyway uh enough of me thanks for uh what you do roger i appreciate it bill come back okay um yes thanks there's a couple things that b was saying i think that's important we have a choice i can be in man's world or i can be in god's world and when i'm in that place that bill's describing i kind of got one foot in each in each domain and that's the confusion that's the wobble that's why i feel i'm a little wonky because you are wonky and you are human and it's not going to change overnight you're always gonna be human so when I get into those places I'm thinking instead of oh god I must be failing I'm wow I go no what's this trying to show me what is this trying to teach me now I'm in a different posture with it so every problem becomes a potential opportunity not the narrator chewing me or hanging me by the neck the other thing is when you can name it I got the narrator I got the beast that means I know that this isn't my thinking and that's important because this world man's world is predicated on fear that's what drives this whole culture is fear you don't have enough money you don't have enough security you don't have enough you don't have a new enough car you don't have a big enough house God you're not married what's the matter with you oh you're you're married three times what's the matter with you you know it just goes on and on so I just gotta understand if I can recognize that there's a voice in my head that is not me that's huge because that's that's the predication on meditation I'm not my thinking I'm the observer right so who else thank you Bill good job hello I'm Linda an alcoholic hi Linda hi it's good to be here by the way Roger I have been married three times and I'm a and I'm okay with it and I'm third time was a charm but anyway um so many things hit my heart tonight because I'm kind of wonky tonight too I'm I have a first world problem going on here and I know it and I feel grateful to be able to go south to Arizona in the winter but this is the time of the year where we're packing our house up and um a couple of my my shadow thinking kicked in was well you can do this all on your own you don't need help I can't I need help with things you know and I can't pick everything up anymore and move it and all that kind of stuff and and then my perfectionism kicks in of you better make sure you have everything you know they they don't have stores there so you better bring it with you you know so in fact we're gonna need it right and and I I really like that um what was said about the truth has a certain frequency because it does so do lies they have a lot lower frequency I believe than the truth but my word is but for the whole month has been grace try to give myself some grace maybe I don't get everything done on my list today maybe some of them can go tomorrow you know and in the meantime I'm not gonna give up any of my social activities God know you know like I got I gotta go to breakfast with my girlfriends you know and all this and um I don't know it's the stress and then what happened with our house where where all the exterior walls have to be replaced on our house and we're making progress on that. Found somebody that can do the work um and so we are blessed we have enough money to put the down payment on it and we can sign the contract and next spring that'll get started and then um I'll worry about how we get the rest of the money next spring when when it's time to pay it you know because that future worrying about the future you know will I have enough will I be enough will I you know am I gonna end up in a nursing home like my parents drives me insane thinking all that stuff because there's no answers to that today and then I go try to say to myself all is well right now right now in this moment where I am is where God is in the moment all is well man I have plenty to eat I have a nice house to live in I have a car to drive and I have you all to come and just by sharing sometimes I've been sober a long time and I still say the same things too that I should know more now. I've been sober this long and by God I'm this old too I still feel like I'm 30 and newly sober sometimes and that's okay because I know God's got my back. So I was passed with that.
SPEAKER_07:Yeah you know this thing that Bill and Linda were talking about we've all experienced I'm at a point in my recovery and something happens and I think I should be further along in fact I thought I was further along there's a there's a thing uh that common Thomas Keating talks about emotional debris and it's this so we come in and to the best of our ability the consciousness that we have we take a pass at four through seven right to get us to the restitution to get us into the daily living in 1011 and 12 and we make some progress and then later on this dis-ease starts showing up it might be in the form of of uh procrastination it might be in the form of something else but it's always going to have a fear component and we stall out but the point is what I'm trying to make and I don't know if I'm being clear I've cleared away a certain amount of debris from the beast's creation of my self-self-centered usiness people in my orientation in the world and now this new stuff has come to my attention to my consciousness that's not failure that's progress and an example um that's one part the other part is you know for this is a true experience I had to do a bunch of amends with my parents they were big on my resentment list and I did and everything was really going well for a number of years and then I don't remember what it was but something happened and all that resentment came back and I thought first beast beats me up for not being where I thought I was and that's just to stop us from examining but back to the emotional debris what it meant was that act got activated again but as that resentment came up it means this is the universe this is God telling me you're ready to deal with this at a deeper level now because it's in there.
SPEAKER_00:That stuff that happened to us when we were little boys and girls that's driving this whole party and that takes a lifetime to expunge in my experience but we can always make progress we can always make progress thank you who else I'm an alcoholic hi Allie it's been a while yeah sorry yeah so busy I missed this meeting and all of you um what a topic um and also my my mother who I don't like called during the meeting and I just had to do thank God for the pause and the I've actually written down because it's um it's been kind of rough med mentally I mean everything's fine but I'm just really struggling falling back into those um uh old behaviors that my inner I guess you could call it inner critic I don't have anything um uh a name for it uh beast narrator are both good but um where I I get almost apathetic of like why I get the why bother I don't get the well it's a it's a milder form of the the fuck it's the why bothers or um I hyper um it's the PG version. Um I I sort of for so much of my life I was like a fix it project there was you know what you know I this the self-improvement and all those things kicked in real early and um sort of setting up external goals for myself that weren't really based on how I really felt um and the whole alcoholism you know chameleon like you said Jim Gathikan's got the great thing about like I hope these two friend groups don't meet or because one of them will be confused by my Australian accent or just something where you do I thought you just had different you know I had my party friends I had my like baked cookies friends I had my all these different um groups of friends and at the end of the day when I got home I I wasn't quite sure who I was anymore and it it sounds dramatic but I think um I get either I get hyper focused on certain areas of my life thinking that there's a some sort of a formula or a plan that will keep me safe and keep me happy. It'll keep me from being disappointed it'll keep me from um being hurt it'll keep me from going outside of my comfort zone and um I really have been feeling like that where um at night I mean I sort of every I'm just sort of going through the motions because it's there's nothing um I yeah again the why bothers and um I'm trying to use sort of the tools because I know part of it the why bothers also comes with the sort of like well you're up you know Yukon's a dump because you don't know how to interior decorate and you don't it's just like I can you know I've been saying I was going to do something about it for eight years and I have done nothing. It looks like a college dorm room um and uh but smells a little better. But it's just I just get that like I don't know how to do it or it's gonna be too much work or that whole like I've sort of pre-planned um ways to avoid anything that could be disappointing or could require again require skills that I don't feel like I have um and um then you you know it all comes back to the fear of like that I won't know how to do it or I'll have to ask for people and the help will be on their terms. So again a lot of it comes back to um just sort of my old life um drinking which was like I get through the day I go to work I'd go for a swim or whatever. And then at night I just drink until it was the end of the day and drink until I passed out and I'm really struggling to try to get back to that sort of get through sort of this is the non-drinking version of that. And um again I've I recognize the blessings etc so I've literally started littering my house with like positivity, momentum just stuff from the um program because it's just I it needs to get in there and the meetings and so forth but I literally need that every hour on the hour reminder and the last I'll close with like luckily when my mom called and was complaining about something um if you want to know what the opposite of gratitude is and you can just talk to her for a few minutes. But it's the idea of luckily I saw positivity or choose I choose positivity because again it um it really um it reminded me of like wait I don't wait I have nothing to be you know I'm okay and um again it's like there's not um again there's a way to be in the world with other people and um you know you just get through it and the program the tools really remind me that there is a way to get through whether it's the self-criticism about I can't do it or the apathy of like why do I have to do it? And um like I said it's rearing its ugly head and um I'm blessed I have tools when I choose to use them. So anyway it's um just really great to be here and listen to all of you. Thanks for letting me share.
SPEAKER_07:Good to see Ellie you know all the things you described I'm not picking on you you know this are all fear. And what the beast is saying is you don't dare try anything because you might not succeed at it. But what the overriding fear is is I'm not safe. And I want the world to keep me safe. I want to make the right moves to be safe this is the thing that the beast uses the most it keeps us in the future and it keeps us in the past. And the only time we can do anything is right now in the present and we're not here. We're planning how to keep ourselves safe. We're planning how not to get hurt we're planning on how to get through this meeting that's coming up in a week it's just it's insidious and I have to be able to identify it and then refute it. Turn it away don't do battle with it because that's what I'm powerless over. So I end up with what Ellie's talking about I end up with analysis paralysis. I end up stuck not being able to do anything and then the circumstances will dictate to me what I have to do.
SPEAKER_06:Then I go then that opens the door for the self-pity and for me and all I can't believe what a shitstorm this world is right for example I'm not picking on you Allie but we've all done it right Paul were you gonna say something you're muted there you go yeah there we go um hey everybody so yeah I the really good um conversation good uh I guess Roger great great um great shares on your part as well and it it it reminded me of where I was a couple weeks ago um I was out of town and in a place where or I was driving through a place where I had to travel for work frequently and um so I was going down the interstate a couple weeks ago and coming up on the town and coming up on the exit to the place where I used to have to go check into my hotel and and uh I just got this really really really sick feeling um in my the pit of my stomach when I when I went past that exit and um it brought back the memory of probably one of well it wasn't unfortunately it wasn't the last time I was there but that it was a a a trip I was there and my my MO was travel for work um check in at a hotel get there as early as I could and drink myself until oblivion that was that was my my very regular routine and the that particular time um I was so far gone that in in terms of chasing the effect of of alcohol and and trying to make the pain go away that I insisted I didn't have um I reached a point one night in in in a hotel down there that um the alcohol had no more effect on my pain and it just I was fully inebriated and probably beyond speech like I usually was but it was there was no there was no relief at all and it stunned me uh it scared I mean I was scared to the point where I picked up the phone at that point and I'm like well I'm screwed now so I've I've got to you know I'm gonna take the courageous step and and reach out for help. So and this is probably two o'clock in the morning and I'm calling somebody back in Minnesota at three o'clock in the morning or whatever whatever the time zone was but I drunk dialed some you know friend of ours that's in the program and all I could do and sit on the other end of the phone and I'll be under the line and cry and bawl and ball and ball and ball. I couldn't even put words together to tell him how bad off I was um so we fumbled through a conversation and um next morning uh I wake up and the first thought in my head which I love the narrator because that's that's a term that I can really relate to. I had a I had a narrator in my head from as early as I can remember as a kid. So the narrator takes over um as soon as I open my eyes the next morning and is uh well we gotta we gotta get out of this I mean you you you called for help and you don't need help. This was just one big huge mistake. So whatever I mean and that's what I I was so pinned by the narrator and pinned by my own fear that I you know what is what is everybody gonna think of me if I have to you know if I have to to to ask for help and and how am I going to do this and just all of the thoughts flooding in all at once and it just it paralyzed me to the point where um I avoided this guy for another two years. But I had reached the point where alcohol wasn't it wasn't doing it for me anymore. I mean it was just and yet I had the narrator in my head insisting that you know this was the way and I went on for another two years until you know lo and behold I'm in another hotel and it's essentially the same the same thing except that night I uh happened to be talking to my wife and uh you know it was just it's just amazing you know to hear everybody's stories and and and how literally how pinned we can get from that inner voice and how real you know how real it it seems to the point of you know when I was driving through there last week and got that same sick feeling in my stomach and I I actually now that I'm thinking about this I I ended up with kidney stones about a week later and I think that might have had something to do with it. It's manifesting itself in a way that is letting me know you know it's still there.
SPEAKER_04:And uh so anyways that's all I got for tonight but thanks everybody anyone else Andy hey Andy um you know the the thing that I appreciate now about the beast the narrator the the voice the shame is I can it can be a value uh meaning I can see what it is and I thought that too a couple years a couple summers ago I really did a lot of mindfulness meditation I was really a lot of time with it and that fall I kind of I was you know writing inventory and I thought God I'm really scratching I'm just finding so many things and it took me a little while to realize no I'm not finding more I'm just more aware of what's there and that now that's what that beast can be is it can be the that first thought might be you should be farther along boy what about him there you know it's their fault but what it can be is the calling towards like okay it's time to look into this why am I struggling why am I why am I here? What am I supposed to learn and the flip on that was just floating unconscious of any of that stuff for 40 years you know not aware of any of it. So it it is it is something where I don't I don't hate it anymore.
SPEAKER_02:It's kind of like all right I know it's there let's let's flip to the truth here and what can we do what can we do constructive so that's yeah what you were saying Andy I don't know if there's anyone here old enough to remember curb feelers but in the 50s and 60s they the cars had these wire things on the parking side of the car the passenger side of the car so when you parked you could hear them scraping you knew where the curb was right that's what you're describing Andy now the narrator the beast the director the boss I recognize and he's become an early warning system you're getting off the path a little bit here come back instead of tormenting and living in hell yeah who else thank you Andy I guess I'll go new guy Lars alcoholic hi Lars uh I'm basically on week four of being sober so I'm just starting the process and I haven't actually dived into the 12 steps but um the lying the pretending to be something and hurting other people I guess that resonated with me when you were opening your monologue there Roger so um I'm just here to try to stop the narrator from talking so much.
SPEAKER_07:Yeah good well four weeks is four weeks and everyone in this meeting had four weeks at one time that's that's a good accomplishment and that it's also signs that there's something afoot here that's greater than me. Because if I was running the show I'd be drunk. If I was running the show I'd be dead so that's good. I'm glad you're here Lars the the thing in these discussions that we discover four weeks 20 years 40 years it doesn't matter we're all human and we all have the same and similar fears and tormentors right we all have a version of the narrator the beast the director the boss we might not have identified it yet but it's there and as we share this stuff part of the deal is God I'm not alone I'm not alone this is just a process and I have to stay in the process and it will unfold for me the way that it's best intended to unfold for me. So I get these Bills talking about I'm I'm in this wobbly place. Well that's good doesn't feel good but it's the I know this because I've been wobbly before and if I just hang in with this thing and I persevere I'll get to the other side and I will be stronger for it.
SPEAKER_03:Because we learn in the valleys we don't learn on the peaks right this is growth well sorry got a few more minutes I'm um I'm Tom I'm an alcoholic I really appreciate hearing all the uh sharing of experience tonight I know I know for me since um getting sober it's just been so much lighter I don't have to you know that I think the the waking up the next day and maybe you'd be hung over is one thing but really waking up the next day and then spending all this time talking to myself why did I do that? You know I'm such a bad person I'm so shameful. Don't do it again. And um and then I and then I'd go and and and do it again. But for many years I yeah then I'd just do it again you know started all over again and um so but for many many years I thought I had it under control because I I and it really I was exposed to the program by some dear friends who were very involved with IA for 40 some years and yet I couldn't get past step one which said I was powerless. My beast or my ego was so freaking strong that nobody was going to tell me I'm powerless over anything. And it sounds silly but it was that but when I it was the gift to get that I really was powerless over alcohol then it gave me some freedom to say stop and um so my life is freed up there's just there's a gift being with other people I can be with other people rather than worrying about like oh what am I drinking too much or do they think I was drinking what are they thinking of me what are they thinking of me if I'm not drinking it was all it was all about me and uh so it's freedom to be with to be with all of you and thanks for thank you I'll pass thank you Tom all right we're out of time here um next time we're together is December 3rd don't forget to bring cookies the holidays so if you want to you can unmute yourselves and we'll close with uh a serenity prayer that's when most of us know yeah and then Andy stay on and we'll have our chat good to see you Allie good to see you Kathy good to see you everyone when you come back in December bring a friend yeah bring a friend okay and we keep enriching the conversation with more experiences and different experiences.
SPEAKER_08:So thanks for being here and let's close with a prayer God grant me the grant me the I cannot change.
SPEAKER_01:Encourage to change things I can wisdom to know to know the difference.
SPEAKER_08:All right thanks everybody for sharing happy thanksgiving thanks for coming here we go to see you Roger.
SPEAKER_07:All right Bye Bill good to see you man come back I will I talked I talked to Mac. You talked to Matt.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, we were talking about 11th step because I had asked it kind of during Boys Club about his practice with the sort of that two way prayer. Yeah. And he talked about it and it hit me after where it was it's it's funny, things can be so obvious after they happen. But isn't that is that