#100 Acceptance & Suffering

Acceptance is to believe "it is what it is" without labeling it good or bad. I suffer when I demand the person,place, thing, circumstance or condition should be determined by my "agenda or expectations"  I am powerless and in my lack of understanding I suffer. I am doing this to me, it's not being done to me.

Chapters

• 0:00 Opening, Support, And Setup
• 1:02 Acceptance Versus Suffering
• 2:27 Four Noble Truths In Recovery
• 7:14 Desire, Attachment, And Emptiness
• 12:07 Powerlessness And Choosing Response
• 16:26 Action, Experience, And Hope
• 21:15 God-Centered Practice And Step Eleven
• 23:43 Group Shares Begin
• 27:35 Curiosity As Antidote To Fear
• 33:29 Catching Runaway Thoughts
• 39:20 Resistance, Interruptions, Serenity
• 46:05 Evidence Of Protection And Daily Practice

Transcript

SPEAKER_06: 0:03

Roger, we're covered. October 11th, 1978. It's my birthday. Um, for those of you listening um to the podcast, when you pick a talk, if you scroll down to the bottom at the top of the talk, there's a link to leave me a message. The bottom is is to support the show, and you can sign on for as little as$3 a month to keep help keep this thing going and defer the cost. So that'd be appreciated. But that's the end of that. I hate doing commercials. But what I'm trying to do is I'm trying to find a way to balance out the cost of this without having to get to start selling advertising. I don't want to do that. I don't want to be doing this and selling mattresses or something. Recovery mattresses, of course. Anyway, so enough of that. Uh it is a season that sometimes people find quite stressful. So, what I'm gonna talk about tonight is some thoughts around acceptance and suffering. I know it's a gay topic for the holidays, but it's important. It's important. So, my I'm just gonna share with you some of the things that I've found in dealing with this stuff. There's in recovery, we talk about this all the time about acceptance, acceptance, acceptance. And there's an intellectual acceptance, I nod to the truth of this, but there's a spiritual acceptance, an energy acceptance here in my heart that releases me from the pressure. And the pressure, this is the suffering. When I can't accept what is for what it is, I suffer because what I'm trying to do is I'm trying to get it to meet my expectations about what I think it should be. And that's all predicated on my fear. I'm not safe unless it's this way or that way, or I get this, or I get that. So our suffering is directly connected to our external referral. And I was looking at some Buddhist ideas, the Four Noble Truths, and it's the same stuff that we talked about in recovery. I'll give I'll give you an example. There are four noble truths that exist regarding suffering. Suffering is constant. This is the Buddhist part. Everything around us causes suffering, even those that bring about pleasure, since they're all impermanent. This impermanence makes us crave and desire them more, leaving us in a state of discontent and thus suffering. Because I'm asking these incomplete, impermanent things, ideas, people, places, conditions to complete me, to make me whole, to bring me peace. They can't bring me peace. They only can bring me more. And you know this from your own experience. When I have a goal, this is what I want to have happen. This is how I see it going on, and I work really hard for it. I get the goal, then I go, yes, that's fine. And then all of a sudden I get a little restless and irritable, and I need another goal. Because that that goal I set up for myself, the promise was when I get this, or her, or it, or the money, or the car, or the job, or the house, or the status, when I get this, I won't feel this way. What way? Empty inside. There's an empty spot inside of me. It's it's a divine discontent, it turns out. Because God won't coerce me, but God will let me know what's not working, right? So a human struggle to live and satiate the whims of the body. This is back to the Buddhist thing, right? So the first one is the truth of suffering. The truth of suffering states that we're in a constant state of wanting, longing, suffering, pain, and sorrow. We grow through life with different emotions, and thus it causes us turmoil. This also relates to the point of being reborn in a state of wanting and suffering. Again, this is about external referral. We grow up in a culture that promotes that, that says this is the way to wholeness, this is the way to success, freedom, completeness, right? And it's out here somewhere. Is it for some families it might be education? Some other families, we're all doctors in our families. We're all lawyers, we're all professionals, right? Someone else, it might be a record deal. Someone else it might be uh a certain amount of money or a certain level of achievement in your field of endeavor. So every time I get what I want, it just creates more want, more have to. This is what I think is my drive, is really my disease. I'm asking things to complete me that can't complete me. So the second noble truth is the cause of suffering. The truth of the cause of suffering states that we suffer because we desire. Appetite, right? Desire is the main reason for suffering. Desiring, be it a good thing or a bad thing, can cause us discomfort. Even life, even life's needs cause us suffering. Desire for needing food causes hunger. Desiring shelter and not having it causes homelessness. Even wanting to live causes us to suffer. Humans' greatest desire is life itself. So then that births the fear of dying, right? So you may see this desire in many forms. This is a reflective question. The desire for money. We work too hard because we think that if we have money, we'll be more comfortable. We desire love, we feel depressed and lonely without it. We desire acceptance, we desire material things, we desire power, we desire many things, and these things are what caused the suffering. So it comes back to the first, the truth of suffering is about external referral. The second, the cause of suffering, is about my clinging and my attachments. I've told myself a story that's not true. I can't live without this, fill in the blank. I'll be much happier when I get this. And so you work your ass off to get a nice big fat 401 so you can retire and you have a heart attack on the way. You work your butt off and you retire, and then you realize you have no relationship with your children or your spouse because you've ignored them while you were making things happen. And the rationalization, of course, is I'm giving you a nice life. I've given you a nice life, and I've also not lived my own. Again, I suffer. And ultimately, the call is the creator. It's God calling. Saying, you see how this isn't working? No, I don't. Because I was raised in a culture that said, this is the way. This is the way you do this. You get a job, you get a career, you go to college, you get a degree, you get an advanced degree, you get a house, you get whatever your this is Keith's method, the idea, the program for happiness. What's your program for happiness? What have you been told you need to have, need to have, absolutely necessary to have in order for you to be happy? And even when we get to stuff, if you look back at your history, got a lot of stuff on my list that I wanted to get to make me happy, and I was not progressively more happy. I was progressively more miserable. And so we found methods to deal with that misery that I didn't know was misery, that suffering that I didn't know was suffering. And it was alcohol, and it was alcohol and drugs, and it was alcohol and gambling, and it was whatever. Whatever could distract me, one, and two, give me that temporary rush. That temporary rush. I feel alive now. So I tied myself to all these things that can't possibly satisfy what the need is, what the necessity is, and I can't see it. And that's the gift of our crash and burn. That's the gift of our bottom, the failure. I cannot do this. What is this? My life. I cannot do this one more damn minute. And sometimes it's a legal intervention. The cops do something. Sometimes it's a medical intervention. Sometimes it's just God saying, I've seen enough. I'm now taking the wheels off. Figure it out, kid. Right? And mine was just an acute spiritual bankruptcy. I didn't do any of those other routes. And it's it's not to say one path is better than the other, because we're all here, aren't we? We're all here in the same room at the same time, in the same place. Because we have similar sufferings in different areas and some similar areas. Sufferings, areas that don't work. And so I need to find a way to make this thing that I call Roger's life work. So I'm suffering because I can't accept things the way they are. That doesn't mean I condone them or say I love it. It just is what it is. That's being confronted with your powerlessness. It's not just powerlessness in here and with the with the alcohol, it's powerless with everything out here, too. You can't control a damn thing. You only can control your response to it. And if you don't, and you're just reacting to everything, then it's controlling you. That was me. Fear made every decision I made in my life until sobriety. And I made a lot of decisions during sobriety, too. I don't think I need this meeting. I don't think I need to listen to you. I don't think this is not going to work for me. Of course, I've never tried it. That's beside the point. It's because I have an incredibly acute intuitive understanding. This can't possibly work for me. And so what is recovery about? It's taking actions I thought didn't wouldn't work and getting results that I didn't think were available. And sooner or later, this essence of us starts to wake up. And sometimes it feels like hope. Sometimes it feels um just an attractive quality. These guys seem to have something that's really work for them. And I am, by comparison, I have nothing that's working for me. So what do you got? Right? What do I have to lose? What do I have to lose? You know, when I came in, they would say things like, if you don't like this, we'll we'll buy you your next bottle, but come in here and do it and see what you think, right? Because they knew fundamentally this is an experientially based platform. You have to do it to get an experience of it. And then when you do it and you do it from a crappy place, you won't like the response you get. But that's not telling you that it doesn't work, it's telling you that you haven't worked it correctly. And I'll know when I work it correctly because of the results I'll get. And I'll get a vague sense of moving forward. For me, it wasn't even hope. It was just there's something seems to be working here. And I don't I don't know what it is. I can't put my finger on it, but even though externally things haven't gotten much different internally, there's I'm starting to look at this differently, which is what this is all about. So I need to find my place, I need to find where I fit. And the right place is not a place out there, it's a place in here. It's an attitude and it's a my relationship with my creator. That's the right place. God-centered, come from God out. That's the term expression means to press out. So as we go through this process of self-examination and prayer meditation, it removes layers of stuff that block us from being the man or the woman that we were created to be. And this new person starts to come forward. It's a total mystery. It's a total mystery to me. And I don't even see it when it's happening, I only see it in retrospect. So, right place, state of consciousness in which I know and I feel my sense of unity with my creator. That's the 11th step. Prayer meditation to improve your conscious contact with God. Pretty simple, not easy, but pretty simple. So, I what I'd like to do now is just open the floor up and have you share things you've learned about acceptance and/or your suffering. What is it taught you? Because it's all a teaching. If I can learn to ask myself, what is this trying to show me? What is this trying to get me to look at instead of why is this happening to me? Jesus. Right? So telling you, acceptance, surrender, lessons, things learned, things not learned. You know, in six and seven, when we ask for the removal, there's some things we cling to. That's the source of your suffering. Anything that I won't put through this process, anything that I won't let go and offer to God, the God of my understanding, or offer to this process of change, transformation. Okay, I'm done now, I really promise. Okay. So someone's talking.

SPEAKER_07: 14:55

Hi, I'm Kathy. Hi, Kathy.

SPEAKER_08: 14:58

Um I just celebrated um ten years in Al Anon. Uh thank you very much. I know a little that means I know a little bit. Um and I and I was thinking about this whole thing with suffering and you know, um Keating's uh programs for happiness. Then mine, you know, when I looked at him, I knew mine was security and um survival big time, you know, that I but when the more I delve into this and and you look at the steps and you go deeper, I realize like I began to get curious. And that curiosity can be a just such a superpower to ask myself, why is it that someone else it doesn't matter what their bank account says? Why does it matter so much to me? You know, there's so that got me really curious to think like they're perfectly happy, and I would be creating my own suffering, I thought, if I'm in their position, but they're not suffering, you know, or I could be suffering for them because I'm thinking, oh, they're not secure, they're not safe. And I'm but that whole thing of getting curious of what is it that I'm clinging to that's creating this insecurity, this suffering around this, like, and you know, like thinking, you know, like you mentioned, Roger, you know, you get so much in the bank account to think, okay, ha, now I'm safe and I'm secure. And then it's like, yeah, but are you? What are you? You know, it comes up, you know? Ah shit. So I think it's just a little bit more, just a little bit more, you know. And but that whole idea of just looking around and saying, why are what is what am I attached to with this? What am I telling myself? You know, what was I raised with all of this? And then would I be okay if this dropped in my bank account, or if I had to, you know, downsize or do something, would I still be okay? And and then thinking, um there's this mantra, and I think it's Buddhist, but it's just um gone, gone, entirely gone. Like everything eventually is gone, gone, entirely gone. And you know, I was in church with my brother one day, and he tapped me on the shoulder and he said, Look around here. And it was the church was packed. And he said, You know, in a hundred years, there's not gonna be a single person here on this earth. You know, we're all it's all gonna be turned over. There won't be different people sitting here at this church, is still here. Life is very, very, very, very short. And I guess I thought, can I make friends with death? And what does that look like? And how do I want to be just in this moment? And when I went out to Florida and I would encounter my son who's two years sober, um, but he can just trigger me. And suddenly I have to write down all the ways he's hurt my feelings. And then when I go back and I look at it, I think, oh, you know, Kathy, you created your own suffering all around this. You know, it's what you told yourself about the situation, you know, that created my situation and created the suffering. And I thought, if I created it, then I have something I can do about it when I recognize that. And that to me is so hopeful and so powerful. It's just kind of like, wow. So I have to guard my thoughts, watch my thoughts. Where are they leading me? What am I feeding my thoughts? You know, what am I telling myself? You know, it's just my own little story. And can I do it? And no, no. Sorry, my dog. Uh okay, but um, so that's that's what I was thinking about. That it's so hopeful to think I create my own suffering, and that if I do, then I can really work to free myself from that. And that is very, very and I've watched myself, and it's like, uh, no, no, don't feed that thought. That thought will only lead to another negative thought. You know, get busy, do something else.

SPEAKER_06: 19:02

You have to have the awareness first that that's the game. I call that that voice, that thinking, the beast, right? I have to be able to differentiate that thought from my true self. So the awareness is the beginning of that. And then the other part is don't engage because you're powerless over that. You know, it's it's it's fear and shame manipulating your imagination to keep you stuck, to keep you in a position where you make poor choices or decisions or reactions. So to your point, Kathy, it's my thinking. And I have to become the master of my thinking. I'm we're not helpless, but we do have a responsibility, and it's a huge idea when I can come to this. Proposition, it's me. It's this crazy part of my brain. It's nothing else. It's not them. I'm not a victim. I'm not anything. It's just it's what I do with this because we know this. Every one of us on this meeting could view the same thing and have 14 different takes. Everyone would have reported they saw something different. Some would see more and more negative things in it. Some would see more and more positive things. Some would go, ah, what does it matter? Right? So the only thing that gives those values, those ideas, any power is our concentration on them. That's why you said if I go down this road, then I'll have another fear and another for you and another fear. Right? That's good. Thank you. Who else?

SPEAKER_09: 20:45

I'm Lynn Alcoholics.

SPEAKER_06: 20:47

Hi, Lynn.

SPEAKER_09: 20:49

Hi, everybody. Good topic. Oh my gosh, this really hit me. When I started into Al Anon and into Alcoholics Anonymous, um, I like what this you said, Roger, about taking actions I didn't think were work would work. In fact, taking actions that just seemed to go crazy to me compared to the way that I had been raised and grew up. And then getting results I never knew were possible. To me, that's like getting hope and having faith. And the way that I had faith was I saw how other people had recovered and and um they were living good lives, and I wanted that. I wanted what they had so bad. I was willing to leap out in faith and do some of these crazy things, you know, that turned out to be life-saving, the things I needed the most in my life to really move on to the good life that I have today of living the dream. And I don't know, I like that about I'm creating my own suffering. And I have I just got down to Arizona. I've been here for a week, and I'm very blessed with the weather and seeing my grandson and seeing my program people down here whom I love. And I had a package that was sent to me, okay. And um, this is the way that I think and it was lost because the UPS driver delivered it somewhere who the heck knew where. We live in an RV park that has over 200 RVs in here and park models and all that kind of stuff, and dropped it off. So the first, you know, I called the company and I found out actually where it had been delivered, which was my neighbor next door. So I decided I'd I'll go over and ask my neighbor, you know, did you see a package? And I was praying. And um, when of course then he wasn't home, of course. And so then I got back over there. I thought, oh my god, yeah. He he probably opened up and stole it and took all the stuff that was in there and sold it, you know, and my brain is like going off. And then I said, Stop. No, this package was mailed to me and it's going to end up coming to me. And I went back over there and I'm like, say, have you seen a package? And he says, Yes, it's right here. What's your name? And I told him, and he's that's your package, and he handed it to me, and I'm like, This is my life. It's like my brain will go off on me in a second, and I will create suffering and anxiety that was never necessary in the first place, and so if I can stop, pause, take the pause and say, All will be well. You know, um, my program for happiness is my connection to my higher power who I call God and Jesus. That's it. I got so bummed out over this past year of what's happening to our democracy. Take or leave that. But I got bummed out about it. Then I said, wait a minute, who's in charge? It's not me. I'm powerless over this. God's got got it. God's got our back. You know, just trust and believe that that's gonna happen. So that's all I got.

SPEAKER_03: 24:41

I'm Kirsten and I'll go. Um for this staying out of suffering, I catch myself when I find myself resisting. Roger posted about this on his Facebook page this week, and and that which we resist persists, right? And so if I feel like I'm anti something or upset about something or whatever, because I'm resisting the thing, I have to find a way around it. And and it's practice, but it works because what is is what is, and you know, I can take action if I can take action, you know, the serenity prayer, that's the rule. We um change the things we can and we accept the rest because um if I don't let go of the things, then I'm just gonna be dragged through the things and go down that you know, freight train to depression, anxiety, ruminating, obsessing, and all of that. Um I've had a you know, I've had the last few days full of unexpected interruptions and little side quests like to the veterinarian and to just things that I didn't plan on, right? It took me three hours to wrap one package today because of all of these interruptions. I literally would like cut the paper, then I'd go do something else, and then I'd get one piece of tape on it. And it was just like, oh my god. And then I I stood in my kitchen and looked at this package today, and I'm just like, how is that package not wrapped yet? And then I just said, it's fine, it's no big deal. Sure, I'd like to have gotten more done today. But I didn't, and I'm I'm right here right now, everything is fine. I guess what I'm saying is it's for me to stay out of suffering. I just gotta take it one day at a time. I'm just doing today, is what I say a lot. And not worry about tomorrow. This practice gotta get done or whatever, all of that stuff, and I'm finding myself a lot more peaceful and accepting of what is like, yeah, I gotta take my cat to the vet. She blew out an organ, so you know, and and she's gonna be fine. It's gonna be fine. This isn't the life, the day that I chose for myself, but it's fine, it's just fine, you know.

SPEAKER_06: 27:04

I read a to your point. I read a quote by a priest today, and he said, the most frustrating part of my work is all the interruptions. And then he said, What I learned is my work is in the interruptions.

SPEAKER_03: 27:20

Yeah, here, here. Anyway, accepting what is is the answer, right? Accepting love what is. This is my life, this is what it is, and um, it's fine, it's just fine. The hardest part for me is being finding out who I am and being okay with being her with all the rest of you people. Now, not necessarily an AA, that's really easy, but with the normies in my life, still being true to who I am, like just be laid back. You don't have to be uptight and all of that stuff. Anyway, I am what I am, it is what it is, and um, if I can keep that in the front of my head up here, I do well with the peace and serenity. And with that, I'll pass.

SPEAKER_06: 28:04

I would add one thing to that. I am what I am, it is what it is, and all is well. All is well, just watch it turn out, right? How many times have you had something happening? You thought, first thought, oh, this is a bad thing, oh, this is awful. Turns out you unwrap it, it's not awful at all. It had a really nice gift in it. And sometimes the gift isn't apparent right away, takes time. But this is the thing you were talking about, Kirsten. It's just embracing it all. Instead, why is this happening to me? What is this offering for to me? What is this happening for? What's the reason? What's the reason? What is this trying to show me? Where's the gift in this? And there's a gift in all of it. If I don't resist the experience. Well, thank you.

SPEAKER_00: 29:01

Evening everybody, Gareth, addict alcoholic.

SPEAKER_06: 29:03

Hey Gareth. Oh, but Gareth, you remember you remember the fog meeting?

SPEAKER_00: 29:08

Yeah. Is that this weekend?

SPEAKER_06: 29:10

No, we're having a reunion on the 21st.

SPEAKER_00: 29:13

I got the email from Gorel. Yeah, I'll be there.

SPEAKER_06: 29:15

Okay, good, good. Me too.

SPEAKER_00: 29:17

I'll be there. Um it's my belly button birthday today. And well, happy birthday to your belly button. Thank you. Thank you. Why do we say that? I don't know, but there we go. Well, I know what we say. It's the umbilical chord, it's the connection to our mother at birth, it's the connection to divine acceptance. I've just run a massive event. As you know, Roger, it was super challenging. Um, I have to have massive acceptance around that fact. Uh, yeah, I my friend left today and I felt very sad about that. Yesterday was a really challenging day. Uh, I got my car towed in Miami South Beach, which was a blessing, and it's ended up being a blessing. Um, and then in the evening, somebody approached me in this restaurant from my past, but approached me in a really violent way. Not violent, but like very vocal, violent way. And I was like, oh, I can't escape the past, you know.

SPEAKER_06: 30:24

Was it an amend that you passed on?

SPEAKER_00: 30:27

Possibly.

SPEAKER_06: 30:28

Possibly.

SPEAKER_00: 30:30

To be honest, I didn't recognize it. I'm still racking my brains. I recognize a face, but I just I can't recogni put together the story. I can't put together, although it was obviously quite embarrassing, but you know, acceptance is the answer to all my prayers today. You know, I know I am protected on such a high level. I changed hotels tonight, and I came into the hotel that I'm in, and I get to my room and I sit down, almost a bit tearful because Freddie's gone, very tearful. And on the screen on the TV, it was just like it just played. And all I heard the words were, Come on, it's your birthday. And it and the song just played. Like I just, if I just lean into like what I'm feeling, I know I'm protected. I so know that God is watching over me with a hand on my shoulder, guiding me, loving me, nurturing me, even in difficult times. Like yesterday was challenging, you know, but there was always a blessing. There's probably a protection in the in the car. It was, you know, there's a there's a protection in what happened last night. I was with somebody that could cope with the situation. Um, but it still tears me up, it still beats me up, you know. Um, but also I'm very aware as well. It doesn't matter how much how how many days, how much time, whatever we say in this room, although I know time is not my tool. If I am tired or I'm hungry, I am so I'm depressed, I'm down, I'm suicidal sometimes, or if I've not been to a meeting for a week, and I it's taken me a long time in AA to really realise the blessing of that. I have to accept that I need this every day. I need a connection to my higher power every day. Because some days it's really good and some days it can be really, really challenging, you know. And that for me is such a blessing. Yesterday was challenging, you know, today was upsetting because Freddie was going. But if I just look around, I've got all the evidence that you know, God is with me. Uncannily, uncannily to walk into my bedroom and there's that on the side, like just uncanny. You know, somebody says it's God, some people say it's energy. But it's definitely the divine is working. I think it's the greatest the thing that I've come to understand is the greatest delusion in life is thinking we have control. I don't, I don't have control, thank God. And thank God for this program, thank God for the people in it. Um you know, so yeah, uh acceptance is the answer to all my prayers today. I might not like it, but then I might, you know, I know it's always working out for my highest good, and there's always a reason behind it, even if it takes some time to get there. Always so thanks for letting me share.

SPEAKER_06: 33:44

Thanks, Gareth. You know, we are powerless, but we're not devoid of choice. That's the purpose of the things I can't change, which is everything, change the thing I can. The only thing I can change is my attitude. That's my approach. And if my approach is I'm screwed, guess what? Your brain will collect all the evidence to support that idea, you're screwed. The difference between a good day and a bad day is simply that. What filter do I have on? And I don't want that to be true because I want it to be your fault. I don't want responsibility for me. I don't want responsibility for the condition of my life. But until I can accept it, my life can't change. I'll just remain in this victim posture. Very unsavory. Who else? Thank you.

SPEAKER_02: 34:45

Hi, I'm Allie. I'm an alcoholic. Hi, Allie. It's great to be here. Um in terms of uh the topic and so forth. Um, last week was um super challenging at work. Um, I I even had to write down, I'm like, wake up called, because work's been kind of um I haven't had the greatest attitude or just I haven't been inspired. And usually what has to light a fire under me is like uh figuring out, you know, like getting called out on something, not intentionally, but when someone's like, hey, we need this, and you're like, oh God, do I have wait, do I have that? And um, it was just a lot of fear because the root cause was sort of was that maybe I was a little sloppy or um whatever, but I just realized that um I needed that sort of again, the wake-up cogs have been sort of um a more of my sort of pre-sobriety activity of just sort of bumping along through life, sort of oh well, and not really um participating. Um, and so it's that form of acceptance, which is more like apathy, is just like whatever. Um, and um my world tends to get smaller that way, and um it creates again this sort of internal there's way too much internal dialogue and too much um well, basically just too much of me, and that is I wouldn't wish that on anyone. Um but um what I um when on the topic of suffering comes up, um so again, I've had this, you know, uh I've been my life has improved steadily since last week, primarily because I'm like, um, I need to take responsibility for my actions. And again, it's like I don't, you know, I've been saved so many times by my higher power of like, because I keep having to write it down of like, okay, turn this fear over and you know, turn this fear over and literally write them down because again, I need that pause and that to be like, wait a minute, you know, again, um, that I just heard recently, um, which really moved me was the expression that fear asks what if, and faith uh faith asks even if, or says even if, because again, it's like these things can happen. And um, if I am truly connected or um in touch to the best of my ability with my higher power, you know, I'm gonna be okay. Stuff around me might not be okay, but I'm gonna be okay. Um but um on the topic of suffering, my my mother just called and talking about optional suffering, I cannot stand my mother. I'm sad to say, but it's just it's not a good situation. She makes no, I allow myself to get that shit crazy. And I have not been on a spiritual path lately with her, so I've chosen not to engage. Um, but it's funny, a friend, a mutual friend called and said, Hey, I want to go visit your mother. And I'm thinking, better you than me. And he's like, Hey, let's meet up there. And I'm thinking, no, not a chance. Nope. And then I'm like, Okay, well, you know, again, it's just this like sort of the idea of like, I can choose to then feel bad about not going, do this whole internal song and dance. I'm like, I could just say yes and go for a little while. Again, it's that choice of I can um ruminate about it, and um, it's like the um the take goes on about um why like some really non-spiritual thoughts I have, but it's this funny idea of like, or I can just again take advantage of this opportunity that I don't have to go see her by myself, um, and with a third party, I'm um usually better behaved. Um and you know, it's just I get an opportunity to um yeah, see the front. It's just this funny thing of and the last thing I'll follow up on this idea of you know, or feeling like I'm doing all this suffering. Um, my mom was in the hospital recently. Um, and so there was a lot of taking care of that needed to be done. And I'm thinking, I I would pawn off as much of it as possible in my head, but I'm thinking, you know, I have a family like my brother, so forth. I that need me to take care of this for them. And even if I'm not feeling the love or whatever, I need to take care do this for them because I'm a part of a family and so forth. And it's this funny thing of like that did ease the ease some of the suffering of just remembering like, whoa, whoa, whoa, this is not a this is not happening to me. This is a situation um that even though my thoughts race to how can I get out of it, um, you know, no, it's like this is the situation, and how can I get through it? And there are tools I just have to choose. Um, so um thank Clara, that was a lot, but yeah, thanks for letting me share.

SPEAKER_06: 39:58

You bet, thanks, Allie. You know, I was thinking, I know what the right thing to do is I should be willing to take care of my mom. And I can make myself do that. I can conform to that idea or comply with it. And then be resentful because of all the time I'm wasting and how unappreciative she is. But when I do it for the right reason, not the right action alone, but the right reason to go with the action, it's liberating me. I'm going because this woman brought me into the world. I'm going because she took care of me a lot of times when I need to take care of whatever. I'm going in because this is my mother. I have issues with her, but I don't want to die with those issues on my conscience. And so I look back, I can go, I stepped up. I stepped up. And that's right action. And eventually that will lead us to right thinking. Thank you. Who else?

SPEAKER_07: 41:11

It's Mary. Hi Mary.

SPEAKER_01: 41:13

Hi, honey. Um, well, this is kind of odd, but it goes together because, you know, there's a real, I'll just say, right side of the Christian movement that's you know, been out there lately, especially. And one of my daughter's uh really close friends, she has she grew up with four friends, she still has four friends, and they're all having babies and everything else. And and uh and I and they all used to come to my house, so they all know me. So I got a call from one of these girls, and she lives in Stillwater, and her they're a real heavy-duty Christian family. I mean, I'll just say they're Christian. They just that's how it is. And so her brother, they had six kids in their family. Her brother um and his wife were killed a week ago in a head-on crash in Minnesota. Um, and their three kids that were in the backseat, eight and nine and six were not killed, thank God. So now it's a you know, a fundraiser and go fund me and all this because it's just you know so backwards. But I was writing her a card today and I said, I said, Anna, when God gave us free will, things begin to happen in the real world, and I don't want you to think that this was part of God's plan. I said, I don't see it that way. I see it as He gave us free will, we buy cars, we'd get driver's license, we drive on bad roads, whatever it is. There's a bad guy in the corner or something. And I said, I just want you to give yourself the permission to understand, because she knows me very well, that this wasn't God's plan. This is what happens when we have free will, and we've been having free will for 800 million years. And so as I come to their funeral, which will probably be in a couple of weeks because they so the kids had some injuries. Um, I said, I I look forward to seeing you and your family because all I'm gonna bring with me is love, and she knows that. And so I said, I just want you to feel like nobody was pointing the finger at you that you did something wrong, and now this is how God pays you back. I mean, I just had to say it because they kind of lean in that direction. So, anyways, yeah, so that's the deal. And I, you know, in me, I'm I'm one of the strangest alcoholics and you know, gutter bravado as anybody is, but when I finally did the steps and I really did them, I don't worry about anything. I I don't know, you know, it's just it it that was my grace that I got. I had a life before that I was using for eight years, and now I've been in recovery for a while. And so I never operated out of fear, it's just who I was. It's just I'm just kind of an odd person. I have a huge buoyant personality that doesn't mean I don't know how to grieve. I always have a good cry, and then I go, okay, next, you know, it's just who I am. And so I don't I don't linger in suffering at all. I I think it's a waste of time for me, but the people that I work with, which are coming out of treatment every age is possible, and a lot of them do multiple different uh addictions. Um, you know, I just I I show up for them. That's what I do, and I give them good grace and I give them lots of love and I know my boundaries and I tell them what theirs are gonna be so they'll understand. Because they don't, if you've been using drugs your whole life, you don't have a lot of boundaries. And so that's one of the things that I do too when I talk, when I start talking to them, is is uh let them know about those things. But you know, I'm such a happy hamper being sober. My life is so good. Do I have anything to show forward as far as stuff? Nope, stuff is gone. Never been happier in my life. So I know I'll pass.

SPEAKER_06: 45:18

Thanks, Mary. Sure. You know, it's there's an anthropology study, and they were they were studying uh different groups for happiness, right? And you know what they found the happiest populations to be? The populations and the least material stuff. The kids played together, they shared everything together, they shared the tribe, raised the uh the kids, the parents weren't the only person. I mean, it was just so beautiful. And when you screwed up, you'd be you didn't get ostracized, you didn't get sent away. They surrounded you in a circle and for hours said nice reminded you of the nice things about you, your good qualities, right? Pretty interesting. Don't need stuff. Don't need stuff. We're grow we raised in a culture that says, Oh, you need stuff because we need you to buy stuff to keep this whole show going. But you know, I look around my house and I go, how much of this is essential? Like one percent, maybe. It's just ridiculous. Anyway, thanks very go ahead. Someone else. Hey everybody, Paula, Paula.

SPEAKER_05: 46:39

Hey Paul. Hi. Um well, I you know, this is a really interesting choice of topic today, just because of I guess the experience I had this morning with in my reflection time and meditation and the reading that I did um uh was really pertinent to what a lot of you have been sharing and what Roger, what what you how you kicked it off. In terms of suffering, and I guess if you don't mind at the end of my share, I'd like to just kind of read one paragraph of what I read today because I think it's really good. Um but in essence what it what it said was, you know, we or at least why what really hit me was this idea that I suffered because I I had no idea really how reactive I was and what was what was taking place in you know in my subconscious and how you know how the the thoughts and and just the brooding and the victimization and the resentment all of that is just going on at a level below you know my consciousness. And it just you know, then all you know, the external referral just push my buttons and you know, there's there's no there's no filter, there's no pause, there's nothing in between it. And it just, you know, I mean we we learn that as we go, and and you know, we we apply the steps in the beginning and then try to live in you know, 10 and 11 and 12, and you know, that becomes or that's becoming my pause, it's becoming my filter, it's becoming my way to really kind of see what's going on, you know, beneath the surface, so to speak. And and uh, you know, those concepts, you know, were completely foreign to me coming in. And like I think Gareth said it, it's if we're not doing this every day, if I'm not doing this every day, it's so easy to slip back into that mode of of just being reactive to everything in the external world. And you know, it it happened to me today. I mean, I had a you know, like I say, I had this beautiful morning, then I go to lunch with my wife, and I find myself sitting at the table, you know, you know, talking about, you know, talking negative things about some of our family members as we're getting ready to host everybody for Christmas. So there you go. I mean, it's just it just is so elusive, and and you know, my lower self and my my beast, if you will, is uh is kicking and screaming. You know, they just it doesn't go it doesn't go away easy. And it it takes that, you know, for me what I'm finding out, what I'm learning through, you know, this meeting and others, particularly, you know, some of the things we talk about here is is just this constant application of of you know what we're learning. And and you know, if we're not if we're not applying it, um it's going nowhere and that suffering continues. So I'm just gonna pick one paragraph and I hope you guys don't mind. But oh go ahead. Here's here's the mistake we all make in our encounters with reality, both good and bad. We don't realize it wasn't the person or event right in front of us that made us angry or fearful or excited and energized. At best, that is only partly true. If we allowed a beautiful hot air balloon in the sky to make us happy, it was because we were already predisposed to happiness. The hot air balloon just occasioned it. How we see will largely determine what we see and whether it gives us joy or makes us pull back with an emotionally stingy and resistant response. Without denying an objective outer reality, what we are able to see and are predisposed to see in the outer world is a mere reflection of our own inner world and state of consciousness at that time. Most of the time, we just do not see it all, but rather operate on cruise control. And I, you know, that cruise control piece, that's that's where for me, that's where the suffering comes.

SPEAKER_06: 51:37

Yeah, because I'm not paying attention. The cruise control piece is where the automatic responses come from. Exactly. And I get activated and I'm off to the races before I even have a conscious thought about it. Excellent. Excellent. Thanks, everybody. Yeah. Anyone else?

SPEAKER_04: 52:00

Hey, I'm Gwen. I just have one thing that I want to say about wanting. I know everybody has heard this phrase. It'll all be good when I get all my ducks in a row. Who has ducks and how do you get them actually in a row? That is such a vague statement that's not even based on reality. And oh, there was a second thing. I heard uh Native American uh teaching is that when you when you be careful when you're praying for what you want, because if wanting is if you're praying for what you want, wanting is what you get. Yeah, so that's not the only thing, yeah, the only thing I can throw on. Yeah.

SPEAKER_06: 52:46

Well, and you pray from lack, and lack is what you get, right?

SPEAKER_04: 52:49

Yeah, yeah, yeah, right, right, right.

SPEAKER_06: 52:53

Yeah, really, really interesting. Anyone else? I won't see you until next year. Think about it. There's anything you gotta say. You know, this the my reflection on this is attitude is your angle of approach. Everything starts with your attitude. Because your attitude is informed by your history, by your bias, by your traumas, by your wounds, right? And that is the lens that I see the world through. So when the thing comes up that appears to be negative, and I resist back to Kirsten, and I resist it, what I'm doing is I'm pushing away the lesson that's embedded in the mistake.

SPEAKER_07: 53:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06: 53:42

And if instead of just going, well, hell, I I made a mistake. Not I am a mistake, I made a mistake.

unknown: 53:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06: 53:49

And now I can take it apart and go, well, what was the oh, it's my social instinct, it was my security instinct. There it was again, right? And then I can correct. But if if you constantly push away the fruit of your thinking, the outpicting of your thinking, the results of your thinking, you can't learn anything. So we're back to that other idea. I am the problem. And and it's scary as hell when you're new at this to think that I am the problem, because I spent decades convincing myself you're the problem. And if I could just get all of you in a row, we'd be fine, right? Not so. So we can be done. Anyone have anything you're gonna they want to say before we go? We're near the end of our time. So I will say this if you celebrate the holiday, uh, may it bring you peace and joy. And if you don't, may it bring you peace and joy. Yeah. Thank you, Roger. Stay away from the cats. Yeah. So I'll see you next year.

SPEAKER_01: 55:06

Absolutely. Look forward to it. See you next year.

SPEAKER_06: 55:09

See you later.

SPEAKER_09: 55:11

Thank you, Roger.

SPEAKER_00: 55:14

Thanks, everybody.

SPEAKER_06: 55:17

Gareth, I'll see you at Frog.