Ep 56: How to connect with our kids despite challenges, with Dr Siggie Cohen Phd

On this weeks episode of Ask Dr Jessica, we welcome Child Development Specialist, Dr Siggie Cohen.  Dr Siggie has over 35 years of experience and she is also a mother of 3 boys. She is on a mission to help make parenting life more simple, rewarding and to help increase the connection between you and your child.   Dr Siggie has an active instagram account and offers many courses, all directed towards helping the parent/child relationship.   

For more information please go to www.drsiggie.com
She can be found on instagram @dr.siggie

Dr Jessica Hochman is a board certified pediatrician, mom to three children, and she is very passionate about the health and well being of children.  Most of her educational videos are targeted towards general pediatric topics and presented in an easy to understand manner. 

Do you have a future topic you'd like Dr Jessica Hochman to discuss?  Email your suggestion to: askdrjessicamd@gmail.com. 

Dr Jessica Hochman is also on social media:
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The information presented in Ask Dr Jessica is for general educational purposes only.  She does not diagnose medical conditions or formulate treatment plans for specific individuals.  If you have a concern about your child's health, be sure to call your child's health care provider.

Dr Jessica Hochman is a board certified pediatrician, mom to three children, and she is very passionate about the health and well being of children. Most of her educational videos are targeted towards general pediatric topics and presented in an easy to understand manner.

Do you have a future topic you'd like Dr Jessica Hochman to discuss? Email Dr Jessica Hochman askdrjessicamd@gmail.com.

Follow her on Instagram: @AskDrJessica
Subscribe to her YouTube channel! Ask Dr Jessica
Subscribe to this podcast: Ask Dr Jessica
Subscribe to her mailing list: www.askdrjessicamd.com

The information presented in Ask Dr Jessica is for general educational purposes only. She does not diagnose medical conditions or formulate treatment plans for specific individuals. If you have a concern about your child's health, be sure to call your child's health care provider.

Transcript

Unknown: 0:00

Hey everybody welcome to ask Dr. Jessica the podcast where I interview experts with a goal to help you worry less about parenting. I'm your host and paediatrician Dr. Jessica Hochman. Today I have a very special guest for you. I am talking with Dr. Ziggy Cohen. She's a Child Developmental Therapist and she has over 35 years experience. Dr. sickie has many practical parenting tips, her ultimate goal, which I love, is to help parents improve their relationship with their children. I hope you enjoy this conversation. And as a quick reminder, if you're enjoying this podcast, I would be so appreciative if you would leave a five star review, and even better share it with a friend who may benefit from hearing this conversation. Dr. Ziggy, I'm so happy to have you here. I love following you on Instagram. I love the practical tips that you give. You're such a calm presence. And I think a lot of parents appreciate that about you. How How did you come into the field of psychology? Was it something that you always wanted to do? Or did it sort of happen as time went on? I think it's in a way both. I think there was a time I fought that. I tried to do other things I can tell you, it's kind of ridiculous. I wanted to be a photographer, I went to art school, I was a journalist for a while, it's almost like I wanted to do other things. And each time I fell back into that. And I think because being with children and around kids was just my most comfortable place. So every time I needed to do something, that was the thing to do. And then over time, it just kind of evolved into what it is right now. But it wasn't one route. One idea. I think that at some point, I just thought that I was going to teach college. So I got all the right credentials for that. And then I taught college. And I felt really happy doing that. But then something else sort of fell into my lap doing parenting and running parenting groups. And I and that just kind of like took took off. And I was like, Oh, I think I know what I'm doing. And people respond to that. You're a proud mother of three, tell us about your boys. Right? So I have three adult boys. And they're all doing well in their own lives. And which is really a good thing for a parent, right? It's really what you want them to be able to function to be able to handle challenges because just because I raised them well doesn't mean that their life is going to go according to plan. But I think one of the things that I do is help people recognise that it is about coping skills and resilience and about being able to know what or who is your support system. So reaching out rather than falling apart and not knowing where to go to. I feel very fortunate and happy to be around them and watch them living their life and doing their things. Yeah, maybe grant grandkids someday soon. Maybe. Hopefully. Yes. We're looking forward to that as well. Yeah, they're all married. So. So not yet grandkids, but they're doing things one at a time, which I'm kind of happy for them that absolutely, absolutely being being married. That's a huge first step. So yeah, three. Yeah. So I reached out to my, my Instagram following. And I asked them if they had any questions for you in particular. And I wanted to go through some of these questions to see what advice you can offer. One of the big things that I'm noticing is a lot more kids are worrying. I get a lot of questions about kids being on antidepressants, should that be the next step. And you know, my preference always while there is medication available, I love to go through the therapy route, how to how to do other things first. And I wanted to know if you had any general advice for parents how to approach the child that's, that has worries that has more worries and they noticed before? Yes, absolutely. And I agree. And I see the same thing I see kids are so much more worried. And I see that as a two fold thing. Is it just pandemic what we've been through. And then at the same time, it's just our ability to talk more about it, right? It's a combination of that. So the pandemic, there's nothing we can do about it. This is a reality. We have been through it. We we look back and at some point, were amazed. Wait, what happened? What did we go through? What was that? Right? It's almost like a bad dream. Exactly. Was it a bad dream? And when did this happen? Right? It was just recently it still is but it feels so long ago in some ways. So that's a bit of an abstract and I think this is what kids struggle with this the abstract of life because they can't quite feel what is real and what is not. And that's when they find themselves worried and trying to fill in the blanks with the what ifs What if, what if what if, which is really the, the inability to foresee the unknown, which is obviously, what we all struggle with, because we cannot see the unknown and the unknown feels so incredibly difficult and challenging and frightening, maybe more than that. So we have to acknowledge the fact that we've been through it. And I think the other part of it is the fact that parents do fit in or fill in the blanks for their children, way too much. So because we've been through something so unpredictable, and difficult and challenging and scary. Parents became so much more worried and concerned as well. So every time there was a little bit of a worry, appearance immediately, obviously, wanted to make sure their child is okay. Don't worry, don't worry, don't worry, was the thing to say constantly. Oh, don't worry about it. But meanwhile, children watched their parents worried and concerned and panicking, and stressed and questioning themselves and everything else. So what we want to do is allow children to actually recognise that worry is something normal and typical, we do worry, saying Don't worry to anyone doesn't actually make them not worry. And we know that right? So what do we want to do is actually tap into natural skills and abilities that they you that humans have the ability to solve problems, the ability to recognise that I have strength, resilience, coping skills and regulation. So instead of Don't worry is more like, or all the what ifs is more kind of like talking about it. So what if so what will you do? If this is definitely concerning? I can see and kids worry about what if you don't pick me up? What if right? What if we're late to school? What if the teacher is mad at me? What if I get into trouble? What if nobody likes me? What if kids are mean to me? And notice all of these questions have so much to do with the unknown? Who can answer that? No one. But what you can do is remind your child that they have naturally that they are naturally equipped with the skills and the tools to manage in moments of difficulties or challenges. So doing what would you do is a pro action that you can remind your child that they're able to have. So if this happens, what would you do that? What do you think you can do? what would then happen? And when children when you walk them through the doing because children are very concrete, which is what I said earlier, the worries are very abstract, the doing is very concrete. And that makes them feel more grounded. Oh, I can do talk to a teacher make a phone call. Ask a question. Whatever that is, right. It sounds like acknowledging their worries, hearing their worries, not not Pooh poohing them, not putting them under the rug. But letting them voice their worries. And then walking through what ifs playing out the scenario. What would happen if that concern were to arise? Yes. Because the natural thing for parents is when a child asks, What if, is to give them an answer? Yeah, so what if it's very abstract and apparent? And I want to say to parents, remember, you actually don't know the answer. The unknown, the unknown is unknown to you as well. Right? I think as a parent, we want to protect our kids. And it seems like a natural protective mechanism to want to give them an answer to make them feel wholly comfortable and supported and listened to. But you're right, we don't always have the answers. We don't have the answers. But also notice parents that when you do give the answer, your child actually doesn't buy it. Right. They ask the same question over and over again. So you want to say to yourself, Wait, something doesn't fit here. Because if I ask somebody, what is two plus two and they say four? That's a question and an answer. That makes a lot of sense, right? If I ask a question, and somebody gives me an answer, and I asked the same question, again, something doesn't fit it means that the answer didn't actually match the question. So it's not what if you don't pick me up? Of course, I will pick you up. It's not it's what if I don't pick you up? One time. Yeah, that's that's a worry, I can see that. It's an emotional question, a concern about the unknown. Yeah, then what will happen? Now, but I don't want to I don't like that I get it. I understand. So now we're still walking them through the emotions, and I'm still not responding. Because I want my child to fit in the answer that feels right to them. I almost feel like I'm seeing an uptick in parents trying to protect their children's emotions. And I wonder if you notice the same thing. But that's what it seems to me that we're sort of allowing, we're being more permissive than ever before. It's very true. And we also in addition to that, we over accommodate. And so children nowadays are much more expressive. So they tell us everything. And we think immediately we must fix whatever it is that they have a problem with. But children really overshare it doesn't mean we have to overthink. So over accommodate. What we need to do is actually if anything over here, it's like we just need to hear simply as that. But you right? What happens as a result of that oversharing is that parents feel guilty, responsible. Concerned, why? What's wrong? What's wrong? Why aren't you happy? I'm trying so hard. I'm doing everything. We went we bought we did. But children live in the moment. That's true. Like, yeah, when they're happy, they're happy when they're upset, they're upset, it doesn't mean that you did something wrong. As a parent, it's just a passing emotion. I think this brings up another good point that that I think about a lot and that is how to raise resilient children. Because I know that resilience is an important skill. It's a lifelong skill. And, you know, nobody wants to raise children that can't deal with struggles and day to day challenges. But I worry that the pendulum has swung from when I was raised in the 80s. That now we're sort of overly protective of children and their feelings. Do you have any general advice on how to raise resilient kids? Yes, I think that when we hear them in full, first and foremost, without us having to immediately fix what it is that they're complaining about. So a child complains about all my friends are mean to me. Oh, don't mind them or go find other friends? Or what do you mean, they're mean to you? That's not okay. I mean, right, right. Yeah. So you see, what I just did is took a very general statement, which worries me as a parent, but I give my child some kind of a very general fix, that doesn't actually allow them to really know what to do in the moment. And what I want to do is hear their complaint. Know that they are having a challenge. Wow, that must be difficult. I'm so sorry. All your friends are mean to you. Wow. I want to actually gain more information before I jump into fix. Yeah, and by that I'm allowing or helping my child also think about the bigger picture. All your friends are mean to you? Well, why? Because we all start with a general statement. And then we begin to see details. And I'm not questioning my child. But I am wanting them to recognise there's more to the story than just all my friends are mean to me. And then the parent is sort of what are you going to do about it? Right? All your friends are mean to you in a way? What are you going to do about it, sweetie? Right. So I'm hearing the problem. I'm there to witness to be present not to fix I give them back the problem. So I'm there present, and allowing them to recognise there is a problem. It's true. But they are able and capable of fixing the problem on their own. And that's resilience. Yes, yes. I appreciate this advice, because I think it'll be really helpful. Yes. So I'm so sorry that this child was mean to you. What do you think was going on? Why was this child mean to you? What else was going on? Were they mean to other people? It's just something they do. Is this a conflict between you two? Do you see that there's so much more to the story, and it is very important to gain a better understanding of the story not from me from it. Try to know that when they're out there, they can't just base reactions on impulse. And on an emotion that is instant, yeah, they have to think about it, what is really going on? Because thinking allows us to make a much better decision. Absolutely. One thing I'm talking to my kids a lot about is how not to take things personally. And so I think you touched on it when you said Are they mean to other children as well? Because a lot of times, we internalise it as something that we did when, if a child can look back and say, This isn't this isn't us maybe that maybe the other kid that was not being nice, has something going on at home? Maybe there's something in their life? That's, that's tricky. And to learn to not take it personally, I think is a really good skill. Yes, that's a very, very good point. Because what you're doing by that is helping, excuse me, also helping your child recognise the complexity of all of us humans, right? Yeah, cuz they're seeing just the meanness of this child, but they don't know what is leading to that. And by you saying, I wonder why this child was doing that. What was going on in their life, you're helping your child think about people in a much more, in a deeper way, in a more complex way. It helps them also understand themselves, as well as other people. Absolutely. You never, you never know what somebody's life is like till you stand in their shoes, which Yeah, can't do. Right. And you know, I hear that from children so often after, you know, when I get more of the information, and they will say, yeah, she was so mean to me. And she's mean, and she's just in when I start asking these kind of leading questions, why do you think this is something she does? Kids actually know, you know, her older brothers always mean to her that suddenly right, or they know She just moved or her grandpa, I mean, they know this information, they're just not fitting it in. But when you have this type of conversation with them, they are much more thought, thoughtful, and able to actually recognise the details. It's true, I am blown away at how insightful young children can be how much they can pick up on. Yes, I think so. And I think that when we remind them that they have that insight, it's not just about having compassion and understanding of other people, it really helps them have an understanding of themselves and life in general. Now, what about for parents who find out that their children are the bullies themselves? I've had, I had a mom talk to me this week. And she was very upset because she found out that it was her daughter, that's the mean child. Do you have any advice when parents want to help correct their children's behaviour? Yes, of course, it's it's a big issue, not just you know, bullying, but the reason of the need for children to overpower others. So we have to kind of look at that, what is this need that a child comes with? Where they feel that the only way for them to interact is to put someone else down? So we have to take a look at the child themselves? Where is their inferiority? Where is their helplessness? Where is their inability to see themselves with other people is this anxiety is the stress. Is it intimidation? I always say, I always think that people are at the at the core, when they have to put somebody down to feel better that stems from insecurity. Yes, insecurity, inferiority. They're doing a lot of compare and contrast. And that needs to overpower someone else, like you say, to put someone down in order for them to feel on top comes from their weaknesses. So it's not just that we want to deal with the bully. We want to, you know, that's not okay. That's not nice. Say, sorry. Don't do that. That's just surface. We're not really dealing with what is triggering the bullying. Yeah, so we want to I would say to that, Mom, I wonder where your daughter is coming from the chin needs to be doing that. Don't put her down. For doing that. Let's really delve into her and find out what is making her do that, which is usually a misunderstanding of herself and others, some form of insecurity, intimidation, inferiority, and so on. And we want to help her. I say often we we actually must help the bully sometimes more, more than the victim. I agree with that. I think it's I think that's the harder role to play as a parent. I remember when my son was in preschool when he got bit by another kid. And I was given the news, it was an easy role for me to take. Okay, he got back, you know, no problem. I understand. I talked to my son about up but then when it reversed, and I got to note that he was the biter. That was a lot more challenging. Yes, very true. The idea is to identify that everybody has weaknesses. We all have flaws. We all have misunderstandings, especially socially. Especially socially. Yes. Isn't that the truth? Yeah. It's one of the toughest challenges of life, if you look at yourself and everyone else, how much we go through socially? Yes. throughout our entire life. It's not like my child knows how to play or doesn't know how to play. Yes, there's so much more to it. Absolutely. And I think what's so hard, even adults, you know, I think you see it all the time with adults, they have a hard time socially, conflict arises, they avoid the conflict, they run away, they don't want to talk about it. And I so badly want to raise children that are as comfortable as they can be in that realm. I think it makes life easier. Right? So when you can have an insight to yourself, when you can self reflect, you can have empathy and compassion, when you can see pass the incident that that just happened, you can see what may have triggered it. I'm not saying it's easy to very difficult, we're all subjective. You know, when you have the skills, you can pass through them, and recognise that we are all in some form of challenge when we are trying to socialise with one another. And we need so much more understanding and compassion towards one another. Absolutely. I think that's so, so insightful. And I think it makes life for the individual much easier. If you can look at it from a place of compassion. worried because think about the child that walks around thinking everyone's mean, to me, it's a terrible place to be. Yes. Now, I'm not saying I mean, if this is the truth, horrible, most likely, it's not such absolute truth. Right? And but for the child it is. So do you want to fix everyone's mean to me? Or do you want to help your child maybe recognise that that statement is not necessarily so absolute? And so you Mungus and they have something to do and say, so you help your child? Turn from being helpless? Everyone's meant to me such a helpless victimised kind of place? Yes. I wonder what I can do about it. Wow. And what's so sad about that helplessness? If you think everybody's mean to you, and you shy away from social connection, I really believe that one of the best things humans have to offer are the ability to have a relationship and to connect with others that adds such depth and such meaning to our lives. So to not have that is a sad, yes, it's a crucial part of our life to is to socialise, we must be able to do that. And if we live in that conflict, place when we feel that we need to socialise, but it all brings up so much difficulties for us, then wish you right, we shy away and we isolate in everything in isolation is much harder, much harder. Yes. This is so helpful. I thank you, thank you for all these insights, I am going to ask you a question that came up. And that is how to deal with mom guilt. Or I should say parents guilt. A lot of parents that I meet and I want to say in particular moms, it tends to come up more, but there's this idea that to be the perfect parent, your you should be with your kids all the time, perfectly attentive, but then also have a fulfilling job where you're working and doing all of it, I think is very hard. Because I mean, I can speak for myself. I think you never feel like you're doing anything perfectly. perfectly right. Do you have any advice for moms dealing with mom guilt? Right. And again, parents dealing with parents that exclude? Yes, I know. But I do agree that moms women in general tend to have that emotion much more than men. So we're not really excluding them. But we are defining the fact that women are much more prone to guilt. And so it's such a sensitive button that we carry from the time We're little because we're much more socially in tune. And we care about others from almost the very beginning of our life, how others are feeling and thinking and what they're thinking about me and feeling about me and all that maximises that guilt. So what we want to know is like you said, that first and foremost, we're more prone to it. So no matter what the reality is, we're going to feel guilty. Okay. Oh, yeah. Permission to feel that guilt. Exactly. Whether I'm guilty or not, I'm going to feel guilty. Yeah, the other thing is, you said like, how are we we want to do it all perfect. And we're not, of course, we're not. That's a recognition. When you set this kind of goal, like, I have to be everything with everything that I'm doing. It's an impossible goal. And we absolutely are going to fail that goal, because it doesn't exist. It's a very difficult reality to face because our minds go to but I have to, but I want to, you can strive, but don't assume don't fantasise that it's all going to be perfect. And then you are just failing yourself and feeling that vicious loop of guilt and blame or self blame. It's so real. Dr. Ziggy, I can't tell you how many times I made a parent who, you know, they're, they'll tell me their their child is having an increased number of tantrums or two, three years old. And they'll say, I think it's because I'm working. I shouldn't be working, I should be home. And it's so hard to give the right answer to the individual because it's such a personal. It's so personal. Right? Yeah, absolutely. So back to coping and resilience. Can you for instance, not go to work? What if you cannot? What if this is also a choice that you make? But this is also your reality? Right. So what do we want to fix reality for our children, or to help them cope and manage and become resilient to the way reality is, right? It's sort of like the victim mentality of why or why this is happening to me, as opposed to this is what is happening. Not necessarily to me, but it's happening. What do I do about it? How do I face it? And that is back to the mom that feeling that guilt. I choose to work, I have to work? That's a reality. It's really okay. Now my child is struggling. What can I do about it not work or just feel guilty? Those two options, not very good options, right? Yeah. What I liked the I do, and I liked the advice you gave, I noticed on Instagram, where you mentioned that it's okay for parents to have alone time. Sure, I think it's a must. And I want to, you know, I want to say the children as much as they need us. They're not so helpless all the time. And part of growth and development is becoming more independent. Whatever that independence is, everybody needs it. The more your child feels independent, the more actually they feel good about themselves. I can do it. I am doing it. Such an amazing feeling. And so true. Yeah, it's so true. And my daughter, my six year old, my six year old with my 11 year old, they made pancake breakfast for everybody last weekend. And they were so proud. They did it by themselves. And part of me got nervous. Wait, you use the stove? And I thought, okay, she's 11 years old, she turned on the stove. I think I did this at that age. And they were so proud of the breakfast they made. It's really nice when you can give them those opportunities to grow in Independence. I agree. That's right. Well, we're I like the advice about it's okay to be alone. Because we are a culture of abundance, we think about quantity a lot. And I want you as a parent to think about quality, it's not the quantity of time, it really is the quality of time. So little or more quality. Think like that the little time you have is it quality time, whatever it is a walk around the neighbourhood of you know, 20 minutes chit chatting, making pizza together in the kitchen or pancakes. So they're making it for you. Things like that actually go a long way as opposed to the quantity of everything that we have. And we can't actually see what it is that we truly have. Right. So true. I think about with my own children. I love driving them to school. That's when they talk to me. It's a quick car ride, you know, 10 to 15 minutes, but we get a lot of talking done I hear about their their lives, their friends. And it seems so small but it's so significant. It's so quality. Yes. So I want you to think that one until your kids are looking back, they don't remember every toy you ever bought, right? Do remember some special toy that they had a connection or enjoyment. They enjoyed having or doing something with it. They don't remember every moment you spend together, but they do remember certain things that stand out. So think again, it's about quality. Absolutely. I have a friend who's a child psychiatrist, and his advice to the busy working parent is he had a similar a similar piece of advice. And he said, even if you can spend a half an hour with your child a day, where the phone is off, it's put away and you just let the child do what they want to do, and you're with them. And it's fun and free play. He said, that goes a long way. And so I think about that a lot. Yes, I agree. Now, in you brought up the idea of toys. So I'm going to ask you a question that I got about parents wanting to know how to not over indulge kids. A parent was asking how do we not spoil our kids, you know, we live in a country where there's a lot of toys to buy, there's a lot of commercials, there's a lot of wants that kids have and while we want to give these things to our kids are not always expensive. How do we not spoil our kids? How do we not? How do we raise them to have gratitude and to not be to not expect that they will get everything? Is there such a? Is that a way to think about? Is there a way to think about this with raising kids? Sure, um, one of the things is that parents buy a lot. But it's also it's very true that in in our culture, it's so easy to acquire stuff people want to buy people want to give you there's all these birthdays and occasions and so on. So it accumulates so quickly. Yeah, but then parents use that against their children, you have so much. So I would say first and foremost, do not use the abandons against your child, because your child was not born into this world asking for that they were born into the world, seeing that this is how it's done and expecting it to be this way. So when you buy when they have so much, don't ever use it against them as a as as if it's their fault, you don't appreciate. I don't know how to appreciate because I don't know what it's like to not have it. And no matter how many times a parent says so many kids don't have an I didn't have that doesn't mean anything to a child. They haven't experienced this reality, it's too abstract. So I say you have it, okay, you have it, don't use it against your children. Now, try to fit in other types of activities that don't require or require accumulating stuff. So nature, you know, you don't have to pack the car with every bucket and every piece of equipment. When you go to the beach. I mean, it's nice to have. But we also know that kids can use just a spoon in an empty container, or just wander around chasing waves or digging their own body into the sand. So truly, think like that nature allows you to actually not need anything and still feel very rich and enriched by the experience. I'm thinking, there's a time of year where I have a daughter who has a birthday, it's close to Halloween, it's often close to Hanukkah, and there's all these gifts and all these things and I kind of cringe inside because I don't want her to have so much stuff. And I feel like a little bit of a scrooge because I hide the presents. And I don't want her to get all the presents. And I tell people don't buy her presents. So maybe I should be a little more forgiving on that end. Yes. And then every once in a while you can clean out the toy room, right, the play room or Yes. And kind of say, I think we don't need as much. Maybe we can keep some of these things that are special to us. Yes, no, I think I think you know, we talked so much about gratitude now. And I think I really want to raise kids with gratitude. And I worry that if they get too much that they won't feel that but maybe I shouldn't worry so much. Right? Because gratitude is not about how much you have. It's about how you recognise what it is that you truly have. Yes, there is a difference. You know, it's, I have so much and we know so many people that feel like they don't have anything and then we look at them. Right but you have so much because having is a feeling it's yes. It's not usually about the actual stuff. It's so true. Comparison can really bring out those feelings. Right? it. So what do you feel you haven't don't have as nothing to do with what you really have or don't have? Absolutely. And And this brings me to my last question I got and that was Do you have any advice on how to deal with siblings that fight? I know that for some, there's a certain point where I feel like parents really need to intervene, especially if there's something physical going on. But what about the, the fights in between? Is there a point when parents should ignore when should we intervene? How should we address siblings that argue and fight? Yeah, it's a it's a big topic, and definitely a big problem. And with many families, it's not about not intervening, or intervening, it's about doing it the right way. So make sure you know safety's first. And you know that as a doctor, right, so if they're being physical with one another in a way that you can tell, they're going to hurt each other, you can stop that you have that right to go, Whoa, ah, too much. But many times parents actually stopped the fight because they think it's a bad behaviour. They think their children are wrong. One is a victim, one is bullying them, and so on and so forth. And these are the ways of the reasons why they intervene in the wrong way. So don't have any judgement about your children fighting, fighting is a natural part of socialisation, your children actually need to fight conflict wise because they are so close to one another. And it's impossible not to have friction. So allow finding the guidance is not which one is right or wrong. This is not a court, you know, where you're really trying to judge that. This is a relationship. It's very different. Yeah. And so you want to help them recognise that fights are a normal part of life, and that they can actually talk about it, discuss it, complain to each other, and come up with a solution on the wound. So in a nutshell, it's like you can stop the physicality but don't start blaming one. You know, why are you doing that? That's not okay. Sorry. I mean, parents add immediately, their own emotions about it. Children are not being bad. When they even the one that instigates a fight is not being bad, they have a need. Don't take sides, your children will fight so much more each time you protect one child versus another. Yes, it's true. Yeah, help them be right there present to help them discuss it with one another. So it sounds like what doctor said you in our house, oftentimes, when our kids are really fighting will immediately jump to if this continues No, no movie night on Saturday, because that's our that's, that's what they love. On Saturday night, we let them watch a movie. So maybe that shouldn't be our quick go to. Yeah, no. Yeah. I would say that conditioning them to good behaviour by using, you know, removing a privilege is not necessarily what teaches them to fight their fights well, and that's really the goal. It's okay to fight a fight is not a sign of bad behaviour or you being wrong or mean. A fight is something that does happen. Now, what do we want to do about it? Do you have something to say? Do you want to complain? She's doing Yes, this Yeah, I get it. And notice how human it is to complain about these little things. Let them vent even to each other, even if they're being a little rude. It's normal part of childhood is having this ability to not sort of like you know, have the manners that require us to socialise. Well, it's okay. It's a family. So she's doing that a How can you tell her? I don't like when you do that. So I reframe it. But I'm teaching them to directly communicate with one another. And I'm not taking sides, which is really difficult for me as a parent because I think she's being so mean to her sister. That's not okay. Yes, stay away from that. Just really keep them in the fight. Allow them to get through it and then walk away. Thank you so much for tuning into this week's episode. If you are enjoying this podcast, I would be so grateful if you would take the time to leave a five star review. We'll see you next Monday.