Ep 121: “Mommy brain”! what it is and how to offer support, with Jodi Pawluski, neuroscientist and psychologist

Episode 121 of Ask Dr Jessica with Jodi Pawluski, a neuroscientist and psychologist, discusses how we can support mothers throughout pregnancy and in the postpartum period.  She explains the concept of the 'mommy brain', and how the brain adapts to the demands of motherhood. Jodi emphasizes the importance of understanding the normal range of emotions during pregnancy and postpartum. She also discusses the importance of sleep and self-care, nutrition, movement and exercise, social interaction and the importance of mental health support, and therapy for postpartum depression. 

Takeaways

• Sleep is crucial for maternal well-being, and finding ways to prioritize and improve sleep can have a significant impact on mental health.
• Maintaining a balanced and nutritious diet, and regular movement  is important for both physical and mental health during the postpartum period.
• In-person social interaction is essential for maternal mental health
• Seeking mental health support, including therapy and medication, is important for mothers experiencing postpartum depression or anxiety.

To learn more from Dr Jodi Pawluski follow her on instagram @dr.jodi_pawluski, and check out her website: www.jodipawluski.com
Also, read her book! "Mommy Brain!"

Dr Jessica Hochman is a board certified pediatrician, mom to three children, and she is very passionate about the health and well being of children. Most of her educational videos are targeted towards general pediatric topics and presented in an easy to understand manner.

Do you have a future topic you'd like Dr Jessica Hochman to discuss? Email Dr Jessica Hochman askdrjessicamd@gmail.com.

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The information presented in Ask Dr Jessica is for general educational purposes only. She does not diagnose medical conditions or formulate treatment plans for specific individuals. If you have a concern about your child's health, be sure to call your child's health care provider.

Transcript

Unknown: 0:00

Hi everybody, I'm Dr. Jessica Hochman, paediatrician, and mom of three. On this podcast I like to talk about various paediatric health topics, sharing my knowledge not only as a doctor, but also as a parent. Ultimately, my hope is that when it comes to your children's health, you feel more confident, worry less, and enjoy your parenting experience as much as possible. So welcome back to ask Dr. Jessica. So I have a question for you. Have you ever heard of the term mommy brain and wondered what it means exactly. Most people use it to imply that our brains turn to mush during motherhood. However, my guest today, neuroscientist and therapist Dr. Jody polu, ski and author of the book mommy brain, she explains the actual research behind the amazing brain changes that occurred during pregnancy and during parenting, and why these brain changes actually serve us. Well. I really enjoyed our conversation. Thank you so much to Dr. Poleski. for coming on the podcast. It's not every day, I get an opportunity to talk to a neuroscientist. And also, if you're listening to ask Dr. Jessica and you're enjoying this podcast, please take a moment to rate review and share it. Your support is what helps us podcast grow. So first, tell me Jody, how did you get into studying the Harry Potter and brain, the brain during pregnancy? How did this all begin for you? How did this journey begin? This journey began. I mean, ever since I was a little girl, I really was intrigued by how things worked. I grew up on a small farm, but also really this kind of maternal behaviour, we had lots of animals that gave birth in the spring, you see some of this behaviour going on. So I really went into my university degree really interested in human behaviour, I did a bio psychology degree. But through that degree, I was able to do some research and different labs. And one of them I did some work on parenting and language development. And then I just really continued I was really interested in in motherhood, pregnancy and motherhood, partly because of this, you know, interest in maternal behaviour and caring for young, but also because it's really an intersection of brain behaviour and hormones. I mean, it's really, really fascinating biologically. And so so I really came at it, you know, out of really interested in the topic, not because I was a parent at any point, that came later. But I was really fascinated just by this, this change in a female's life in general. And you're both a neuroscientist and a psychologist. Yeah, so I did a master's in psychology and a PhD in neuroscience. And then I did additional training to be considered a psychotherapist in in Canada. So I started that a few years ago. And, and this also is a nice kind of addition to the research world, because you're actually talking to individuals and learning from them. As they're transitioning to becoming parents and struggling through it, he came at it with an interest purely in motherhood, specifically, and then also, as you know, as you get into the topic, you realise, oh, my goodness, how many people struggle during this time period, right with mental illness. And so this also has been something I've spent a lot of time doing research on is looking at how the brain changes across pregnancy and the postpartum period, but also in relation to stress, stress related disorders and treatments for them. So that's, that's where my kind of my lab work has been focused in the past years, I guess, myself, I think if you can understand that your concerns and your worries are normal. It actually helps lessen your worries, if that makes sense. Yeah, I'm excited to talk to you to hopefully help shed light to people listening, that these changes that we feel as we're going through pregnancy as we have babies are actually normal. And I think understanding that those changes are normal, hopefully will help bring some comfort. Yeah, definitely. I 100%. Agree. Like for me, part of this is also if we have knowledge, right, then we can relay knowledge is power, essentially. And so if we can understand some of the reasons why we're feeling how we're feeling that can really be helpful. But I mean, that being said, of course, we know that there are severe struggles during this time as well. But I think understanding the normative healthy changes and experiences is really key to you know, a Healthy Transition. Yes, I remember during my paediatric residency training, and OB that I commonly worked with would tell mothers, on your third day postpartum, make sure and have no money on the television, you have to put something light and easy on the television because every mother cries on the third day after birth, and I remember thinking, How does he know that? And is that true? And why does this happen? And sure enough, when I talked to mothers, I do notice that there's something around that third day where mothers are just more emotional. I don't know why it happens. Exactly. But it's true that there are definitely normal, sad feelings that can happen right after having a baby. Yeah, yeah, definitely. And we talked about those as the baby blues, right? Essentially, for the first two weeks there can be a lot of changes in your mood and So often, you know, after the two weeks, if that persists, like feelings of sadness, and you know, then this is where especially you need to talk to, to someone, right? Your, your medical team, for example, or your physician to share how you're feeling. But yeah, the first couple weeks, there's a lot going on, it's a big transition. But it's interesting you say, the third day because I gave birth to one of my children in Belgium, and it was there like the first night, don't worry, Mom's gonna be all over the baby dad's second night, you better be there, because that's when she's gonna crash down. And you're gonna have to like, Take baby and be supportive and let her sleep. So there must be a little bit like a common knowledge that in the first few days, there can be a bit of a, an up and then a low, a high and a low. So So I want to ask you, so you wrote a beautiful book, the mommy brain. And you first describe to everybody what is the mommy brain? So I Yeah, Mommy brain, my brain is something we've talked about our Mom Brain, baby brain, people have different terms for it. But this idea that your brain essentially goes to mush when you become pregnant and early postpartum. So it's not working, you can't remember things, for example, it's kind of this fairly common narrative, you know, we see a lot of kind of jokes about mommy brain forgetfulness, and, and so there's this idea out there that when we think of motherhood in our brains, it's quite negative actually. And so I, as a neuroscientist who studies the maternal brain, I know that the brain actually does pretty amazing things during this time. It's just that we often associate it with this kind of negative outlook. But we forget, I think, in many ways to acknowledge what it is doing, which is essentially learning how to keep a child alive, right. This is not specific to the birthing parent, of course. So you know, there's no reason why a non birthing parent can't be a primary carer and learn also how to do it, they might take a little bit longer depending. But you know, I think we forget that our brain is actually helping us figure out how to parent, I mean, but I have a lot to say about memory and motherhood and this idea of mommy brain, just to clarify some points as well. But in general, I also would like us to remember that our brain is doing amazing things in order to help us to parent right, and this is something we forget, I heard you share on your podcast, a really funny quote, that the idea that the mommy brain idea that we used to have functioning brain cells, but we traded them for children. Yeah, it feels true. It's one of the later ones. And then I also like now when I look at it, because I did actually look at neurogenesis, the production of new neurons in the brain area, the hippocampus in mothers, for my PhD work. And in fact, we don't see that any neurons have been traded in we don't, essentially, we see a decrease perhaps in production in of new neurons in that area of the brain, but also an increase in another area of the brain. So there is literally no trading in or losing brain cells. Because we don't see a difference in cell death when you have a child but but there is this idea that your brain is not working as it should, right. And what's really been interesting about following this literature is specific to memory. Because this is this mommy brain idea is really specific to like forgetfulness, often, not being able to concentrate brain fog, when you look at specific types of memory for things like words, so verbal memory, or for working memory, like where you remember where you parked your car earlier in the day, for example, overall, from the research that's been done so far, there appears to be somewhat slight decrease in memory, those types of memory in pregnant women are early postpartum women, compared to non pregnant women, and so nothing that should interfere with daily functioning, but there is a hint there that there's there is a decrease. But what's interesting is there's been some recent research has shown in fact that pregnant and nonpregnant individuals actually do really well in a different kind of memory. So memory for objects, for example, and in fact, moms or pregnant women, in fact, have way better memory for parenting related objects. So what you're saying is while our memory may feel foggy, or in certain areas, when it comes to areas in parenting, where it may benefit our children, those areas of our working brain are heightened and improved. This is the idea yes, that we're going with I guess I want to make yourself feel better that if we don't feel as we're as sharp in some areas, overall, our mom brains are working just fine. Yes, and I exactly and I also want to like add another caveat to that is that We I would also did some research where we showed that in fact, moms in that study, were really great at doing the task in the lab so that when they had a quiet place to do questionnaire and memory tests, they could do this no problem. But when they had to do something from home, this is where the challenge was. And we saw that the pregnant women were not as good at doing the memory tasks from home as a nonpregnant. So sometimes when I think about mommy brain, so when you're feeling you're having mommy brain, you're like, I'm forgetting all the time when my brains not working. For me, I also think you know what, this is a sign perhaps, that your brain needs something. So maybe it needs a bit more space, it needs a less fewer to dues, you need to bring someone on board to take over some tasks. You know, anyone, regardless of whether you have kids or not, we can get brain fog, we can be forgetful, whatever, for various reasons. And so your brain can only do so many things. And then it's going to start to pick and choose where it's going to focus its attention, right? This is kind of my working idea. That makes sense to me that our brain would work more to think about taking care and tending to our children. And we may forget to wash our car, or do another task, but our children should take precedent. Right? Exactly. And so this is where there's this idea, we talked about this shift, right? Because your brain is going to be, then if it has to choose, it's going to choose ideally, the parenting related tasks to do or the kids specific ones, and not the other ones, right. So I think this is sometimes where the forgetfulness part comes in. It's like I forgot my keys, or I forgot to pick up this or I forgot that. And maybe that wasn't as important in the grand scheme of things. So um, so if you're, if you're listening, and you're feeling that mommy rain, you're feeling bad about to just know, it's really in the interest of your children. And it's, there's an evolutionary reason for it, and it's helping you take care of your kids in the long run. Yes, I also think sometimes we're looking for it, because we hear so much about it. And so then we start to see it more when I can tell you like, I mean, I think it's my husband who leaves and forgets his wallet, like all the time, right? It is have daddy brain who did that before we had kids. And so I think sometimes there's also this like, Oh, but I like oh, there it is, like, they told me this was gonna happen. And now it's happening. But is it really happening more than at other times in life, right. So sometimes we look for it. So this is also something to to be careful about. But that being said, I don't want to diminish anyone's experience of feeling brain fog, and really struggling because it is real, it's a real struggle. When you feel like you can't think it's clearly you're forgetting more. And this can be for different reasons. Like I said, a lot of to dues maybe, you know, lack of sleep, although the research hasn't consistently been showing that lack of sleep is related to performance on a memory task. But it's definitely related to how you feel about your memory, which is different. But know that your brain is actually functioning really well and is doing what it needs to do. I think we have to remember that. Now, what about the hormonal changes? Can you describe as a neuroscientist? What is happening to the Mom Brain in terms of hormones, and help us feel better about those normal feelings that we may feel while pregnant? And after giving birth? Okay, yeah, this is a, this is a big one. I mean, first of all, I think what I'm going to do is maybe just tell you briefly what's going on in your brain, right in terms of structure and function. Because there's been some more popular press covering some of this research. So this idea of the brain is shrinking. Have you heard of this, that I heard the very cute episode with your children on where you search for you? Your very first podcast episode, you talked about that where you brought your children on as guests is very cute. Yeah. My kids know some things. They're like, Can we not talk about work anymore? But yeah, so you know, if we think about the brain, I just want to clarify a couple points is because this does come up sometimes is that across pregnancy, there's been some research that shows that the brain in different brain areas actually decrease in size in pregnant women. And then everyone's like, ah, that's why I'm forgetting because my brain is shrunk. It's not why you're forgetting anything. So just to clarify, this is really normal. It's about a 1% decrease in brain size. We like to think of it as fine tuning, becoming more efficient because it's associated with increased feelings of attachment, and less hostility towards your child. So just to clarify, if you ever hear hear someone say that you have migraine, because your brain shrunk, that's actually not true. And they haven't found any association between the brain shrinkage let's say this decrease in volume and memory challenges. So just so we notice, and then the other thing is, is we see a lot of changes in activity in the brain, particularly in the postpartum period, that are really increased activity. In certain brain areas we call the parental brain network. But this increased activity in response to your child. So this is a good thing. Your brain is going, ooh, I have a child, what do I do? I think the child's rewarding I think the child like I need to figure out how to take care of the child, the child needs something, you know. So this is another way your brain is responding to this, this increase in activity. Now, the thing we always talk about right is hormones, right? The hormones during pregnancy and how they are related to our mood, how they're related to how we feel postpartum. And unfortunately, when it comes to the human literature, we actually don't know so much about the direct link between all these hormone changes, and any mood changes. So this has been the subject of a lot of research where we think, Oh, maybe it's estrogens, or maybe it's this and it's not really clear. So as far as I know, there's not a clear link with we talk specifically about mood, for example, between the hormones and it's usually the steroid hormones, brain changes and mood symptoms. But I think part of this is because, you know, we often think of oestrogen and progesterone as increasing during pregnancy, the steroid hormones, and then we talk about cortisol as the stress hormone and all and oxytocin and prolactin. So there's a lot going on. But in fact, if you look into the maternal brain, and we do a lot of this with animal models, there's a there are a lot of different factors that are important for parenting. So we know that serotonin actually is important. We haven't done enough research on it, but it plays a role, a role. Dopamine, of course, plays a role. Oxytocin, yes, prolactin estrogens and progesterone as well. They also interact with each other. So the brain is what I'm saying it's a really complex the story of how all these neuro chemicals work together to elicit parenting. And we definitely have research in nonhumans, on the parental behaviour in the brain. So there's a lot of research on this. But when it comes to humans, we of course, understand some of these mechanisms. And it's going to be very similar. We can't do the same level of research. So that being said, I mean, I think it's important to remember that there's lots of different hormones at play and different neuro peptides, and they interact with each other. And they could definitely be impacting how you're feeling in a good and a bad way, depending on what's been going on. I'm just curious if there's anything that you found in your research, but for me, I had this drive to breastfeed, I kept having to breastfeed and I, it was all consuming. I thought about it all the time at work, I was thinking about pumping. When I was home with the kids, I was thinking about breastfeeding, I couldn't think even about going on a trip with my husband without the kids or away from the kids. Because I had this drive to breastfeed, it took up a huge part of my brain space and my thoughts. And then when I finally did stop breastfeeding, it was like, I was free in some ways, as much as I loved it. And I was committed to it. There was a relief when I was all done. And I was just curious if there's something to do with the hormones, I assumed there was, but I'm assuming there's something I think research hasn't caught up, right. So I wouldn't be surprised if there's something to do with the hormones. But also I'm hearing there's a lot of brain space was freed up, right? Because they don't need you to feed, you don't need to worry about pumping, you don't need to like it actually relieves some elements or gives you know of stress in some way, right or just occupation, let's say. So there's that aspect as well. And when we actually talk about pregnancy and postpartum and the maternal brain specifically, and also at the parental brain, it doesn't matter if you're birthing a novel with the parent, your brain changes. But especially when it comes to female health, there just hasn't been the research, right? So if 80% of women are like I have money brain or my brains mushy, then why don't we know very much about it, we don't write. It's there's maybe 20 to 30 studies on this. And then if you think of what you were describing, like the breastfeeding impact on mental health when you stop that, again, is this area where it hasn't been really well investigated. Right. And we assume things like hormones are related. That would be great. Yeah, probably they are. But we haven't figured that out yet. I so I think that's that's also an interesting thing when we talk about breastfeeding, right? Because as I mean, once I became a mother, I realised how much breast feeding impacted me and you get a different sense of the impact it can have, and just how there's like a lot of emotions around it. And this was something I wasn't prepared for it all and it hit me hard, even though I could rationalise that it's okay if it doesn't happen, and I know that's fine. But there was like this guilt around it. But it's really interesting because there's this pressure to do it and you're supposed to enjoy and be all happy and love your child and it's just like the fall Nina euphoria. And it's like actually, it's kind of his feeding kid. Right? So, like for some, it's great for some it's not. And it's not something that's essential. I mean, breastfeeding itself. Yeah, it's a whole other topics. But it's also something we don't know very much about, right, in terms of how it works with like, we're just learning about breast milk itself. And then if you go on top of that, like you said, all the mental health impacts, I mean, there's a lot going on, and it's different for different people, that whole experience and how that kind of those hormones essentially are affecting different people. Yes, no, I think this is a beautiful point. Because I think what I want to impress upon moms, is that I want them to do what's best for them. And for their family, what works for them might not work for their sister might not be working for their friend, maybe their friend loves breastfeeding, maybe the person that's, that's now a new mom doesn't like breastfeeding. And I think the bottom line is every family unit needs to do what makes sense for them to thrive and to have a happy life and a good bond with their children. And the American Academy of Paediatrics, recommends try to breastfeed till the child's a year old. Okay, for a lot of moms, that's really hard to do. And I feel bad that they feel that external pressure to breastfeed for a year. Yeah, in actuality, it might not matter that that much. I mean, while it's lovely and beautiful. For a lot of moms, for certain moms, that might not be the ideal situation. Yeah, yeah. And on top of that, I also want to that, in general is, you know, somebody we need to remember is that to parent and to be a mother can be really diverse. And so in, that's all healthy, right? That diversity can be really healthy. You don't have to breastfeed, you know, you can best be each other to I don't care, but there's accepting that there's a lot of diversity and how it works. And that's something we need to do when we talk about motherhood in particular. But that'd be Yeah, but that being said about the breastfeeding, it's also reminded me of an important point, I think, is that when we talk about the brain, because often people think that breastfeeding is oxytocin and oxytocin healthy bond to my baby, this is like the never ending story. Yes, oxytocin is very important during lactation, for milk production and rejection. The oxytocin that's released in your brain for bonding actually, can actually be released when you're just looking at your child, or even a picture of your child. So you do not need to breastfeed to have oxytocin working in your brain to facilitate bonding. And so this is important you need to interact with your child. This is important, but the act of breast feeding is not essential to to parenting and having a healthy relationship with your child. So I think that this is really important. There has been a little bit of research now come out in human literature showing that the yes, if you breastfeed in the postpartum period, it does something slightly different to your brain, but we're not sure exactly why. And so that needs to be investigated further, because those studies also need to control the the amount of time you're touching your child. So is it the touch and the interaction with the child? Or is it actually the breastfeeding? Okay, so I want to talk more about the postpartum blues and the feelings that moms can expect to feel after having after after experiencing childbirth. So you mentioned that blues for a couple of weeks as normal, and then it should dissipate? Are there any other feelings that moms may expect to experience after childbirth? Yeah, so I also think it during pregnancy, many moms experience a wide range of feelings. So I just want to show point that out. And actually, many women who do have postpartum depression, actually are depressed in pregnancy as well. So but that being said, there is, you know, this is not a time when you're supposed to be happy all the time. But really, in the postpartum is, you know, often where we see a lot of range of emotion. So like those first two weeks, okay, can be a lot of ups and downs. In general, the underlying moods should be contentment with the baby blues, but of course, some of us know feelings. But if there's a persistence of, you know, feeling anxious, worried, not being able to sleep well, and negative thoughts that are overwhelming and taking up most of the day, then and they persist in the postpartum period. And this is, you know, something that needs to be talked about with the physician and primary care provider be so I also want to say with regards to thoughts, a lot of thoughts will fly through your mind as a parent and this is really normal. A lot of one's about well, my baby might be harmed or what have you. It's actually really, really normal to have a lot of different thoughts, but it becomes a problem and the thought, causes worry and anxiety repeatedly. I like to remind Parents that some worries are normal and expected and actually a good thing, you're having a baby, a total change to your typical day to day life, it's a huge event to have a child. So it makes sense to spend a good part of your brain space and thoughts worrying about them, preparing for them, thinking about them. So there's definitely some amount of anxiety that I believe to be a good thing. Yeah, and anxiety, all of our moods are actually healthy in some way, right? It's just when they become or not moods, I guess all of our emotions are healthy, it's when they start to like, become too pervasive, right? When this becomes an issue. So anxiety, for sure, it's really normal to be let have heightened anxiety in the postpartum, you want the baby to survive. But if you're staying awake at night, and it's interfering with sleep, or you're not leaving the house, repeatedly, or you know, then we need to maybe help to bring that anxiety down to a more normal level. So that, you know, feeling the feelings and all different ones. Throughout the postpartum normal. If you get stuck in a few, especially ones that feel heavy, negative, not like yourself, this is something that needs to be addressed to kind of alleviate those, those feelings, right? Because it's really important that we be healthy as best we can during this time. And so you brought up that if moms are feeling overwhelmed, to talk to their primary care provider, what other things can moms do to help support their feelings during this time? Do you have any other ideas or suggestions, I often think of checking in with some basics. So for me the basic things that are important for our health that are important for our brain. Number one, sleep. Sleep is a big one. Sleep is medicine. So check in with your sleep, like hold on a second, how it's been really crappy sleep all week. This is probably why I feel like crying or screaming at everybody or whatever. Right? So let me try to get some sleep and how can I do that? I think what's so tricky as we all know that sleep is so important during your pregnancy after having kids but it's so hard when you're feeling bigger and you can't get comfortable. And then this baby comes that's waking up every two to three hours. So I agree with you sleep is so important. But I would implore people listening to try to get support if they know that there's someone who really needs their sleep, having conversations with their partner, having conversations with their extended family. Sometimes you have family that want to help and pitch in. So reach out to those extra resources that can make such a big difference. Yeah, exactly. Figuring out something that you need like into having the support to do that. You can get sleep doulas something, just acknowledged that sleep is important. Start there and then figure out how to get a few more minutes. If you think that's where I go, you're not gonna be able to transform your life but sleeps important get a few more minutes. Perfect. Nutrition. Of course, we all know nutrition is important. So I usually talk about not like revamp your what you're eating but have you eaten? Are you eating regularly? Are you eating some fruits and veg for anything colourful? I also do often thinking about movement because we know that you know moving our bodies being outside with light. Natural light is really healthy, even on a cloudy day. It's good for our brain. I get this question a lot from new families. They're afraid to go outside because they have a new baby. Okay, not getting outside and they're not getting that light. But I like to remind families that as the mom tolerates it is okay to take walks, get some fresh air, you really don't get sick from being outside you get sick from other people. So it's very healthy to get outside and have the baby covered, of course, but let them get exposed. Yeah, they're definitely and in some countries in some Nordic countries, they put the baby outside to nap. So it just sits out there and it's a little buggy on the patio or whatever. Yeah, and a lot of a lot of babies they stopped crying when they're outside kids love being outside from the Oh, my dentist's this was a saving grace for me when I had my kids at home all day. Definitely around four o'clock, we're for sure going outside because I'm done. They need some entertainment and outside is super great, right? It's really healthy for little brains. And, and like you said, it's it's the sickness is from other people. It's not from being outside. So getting outside is really healthy. This research on this is good for your brain. Go outside. That's that. So and then the other one is, social interaction is healthy for us, right? We need to be around people where we're enjoying our time. So sometimes we get very isolated, especially new moms, isolated and alone. And there's something to be said about getting out a bit and interacting as you feel comfortable with others that you enjoy interacting with. Right so this is also really important not to be isolated. This is healthy. For your brains to base a bit more social, you know, you don't have to go out to parties and go out all the time. But you know, just to tap in with Hold on a second, I haven't seen anybody for a couple of days, like, I need to see someone who doesn't live in my house, right. And if you do, think go search someone out. So those are some fundamental things, I think that are important to remember. Because those are things that are healthy for, they're healthy, healthy for our brains, right to help healthy for our bodies. What a lot of moms are doing now is their social interaction is online, it's on social media. And while I can see the fun and that you're learning, you're talking to other like minded moms or people that are going through similar experiences, sometimes I find it causes more stress, because people feel like not doing it perfectly, or it's almost information overload. They're reading too much. They're worrying too much. They're learning too much. So I want to emphasise the point that you made that it's really important to be social in person, actually. Yeah, I mean, there's benefits, of course to online, but there's nothing like being around other people. I think it's more natural to be around other people. I totally agree. Yeah, yes, this is true. I think that it's this is important to find, you know, your community, a small community to actually see periodically, you know, your friends in person, it's important. Also, to get off screens, let's face it, when you're in person, hopefully an iPhone as well, or at least not very much. The whole goal of this is also to think about it and think about how to slightly maybe modify some of these things that we know can make our brains function better. So so it's something that I always suggest, like, doing easy modification. But that being said, you know, some modifying your lifestyle, and in these ways, is not going to be the fix for many people, right. So you do need to search out other support. So that's why it's a, you know, the primary care physician, it's always good to check in with them. Another thing is also to check in thyroid Iren, B vitamins, thyroid and iron levels, really big impacts on our how we're feeling and how our brains functioning. So those are also big ones that you might want to go to your fish and be like, you know, I'm not feeling so great. And wondering if it's something to do with my thyroid or my iron levels, especially if you have had a history of those things being not within the normal range. Right. So I'm curious your thoughts on this, I find also, it's really helpful when moms know they have a history of feeling anxious or depressed. Because those moms we keep an extra eye on them. If they've been on antidepressants in the past, I find that the likelihood that they'll need something after having a child goes up. It's Yes, definitely. So I think that's really helpful for moms to have that conversation with their physician so that we can be on their team and look out for them as well. 100% Because that is a big predictor of how they're going to do postpartum. Especially if the if there's a history of anxiety or depression. And so this is great for your healthcare team to know from the get go so they can help to support you during this time. I also want to say that I do a lot of research on antidepressant medication use during pregnancy and the postpartum period. And if your meds are working, research is showing stay on them. And then if you have questions about especially lactation comes up quite a bit. Of course, there's certain antidepressants, you can that they recommend. One not record that's not recommended during pregnancy is paroxetine. And then in the postpartum period, there is a resource called lacto. Med where you can look at any medication and see how much it will be passing through the mouth and how your physician can accent metabolism and all sorts of things. So 20 results blackmud LACTME. De Thank you. And there are new medications that are specifically directed towards postpartum depression, correct? Yes. So in the States, you do have these new medications that are specific for postpartum depression, which is great. They've been developed specifically for postpartum depression. One is reso. And one is around alone. One is an IV treatment, and it's not as easily accessible. And the other one is an oral treatment. So pill form, which should be available soon. But it's not clear exactly how so because I know some of the researchers who've been involved in the development of those medications. They work on a hormonal system allopregnanolone, which is related to progesterone. It's important for regulating our emotions, of course, like many of these things, but it can be really helpful these medications to alleviate rapidly the effects of depression. And so I think there's huge value in having these medications that have been developed specifically for the postpartum period. But I from what I understand is access to them. That's the biggest challenge. But hopefully, this will change rapidly. Well, thank you so much for your time. Tell people where can they find you? If they want to learn more about mommy brain? Where can they follow and learn more from you? Yeah, so you can find me on my website, Jodi, police key.com. I'll send some information maybe to go in the notes with the podcast. I'm also on Instagram at Dr. Jody police ski, as well as on Twitter. Now, ex Jodi, please keep up more often on Instagram, I have my book, mommy brain. And I have my podcast mommy brain revisited where I speak to neuroscientists about their research on the parental brain. So you can also find me chatting with individuals with the latest research and what they're doing. Because I find obviously very fascinating. It's fascinating. And it's so helpful, I think, just for us to know that the changes that we're feeling emotionally, physically, all of it that it's normal. That's the thing is like, it's really normal, that there's a lot of changes during this time. It's there's supposed to be you, you're producing a human and keeping it alive, right. And so I think we should also be really fascinated by this whole transition, like producing a human. This is a big deal. I don't know why people don't find pregnancy. Absolutely fascinating. And motherhood, right. And I think that we really need to tap into this more focus more on maternal health in our research, especially when it comes to mental health and really support motherhood in all the forms that it takes, because there's lots of different forms that are really healthy. Thank you so much. I find this topic endlessly interesting. I mean, it's not every day I get to talk to a neuroscientist. So thank you so much for coming on the podcast, and I look forward to learning more from you. Thank you so much for having me. Thank you for listening. And I hope you enjoyed this week's episode of Ask Dr. Jessica. Also, if you could take a moment and leave a five star review wherever it is you listen to podcasts, I would greatly appreciate it. It really makes a difference to help this podcast grow. You can also follow me on Instagram at ask Dr. Jessica See you next Monday.