In this conversation, Jessica interviews Diane Boden, host of the Minimalist Mom podcast. Diane talks about the challenges of living with less in a world focused on consumerism and the importance of being intentional with possessions. Diane provides practical tips for decluttering books and toys, and overall the conversation highlights the benefits of minimalism and Diane Boden discusses strategies for decluttering and organizing kids' toys and sentimental items. She emphasizes the importance of prioritizing favorite things and helping children notice when they no longer play with certain items. She encourages parents to focus on experiences and relationships rather than material possessions. She concludes by sharing her thoughts on minimalism as a way of life.
Takeaways
Dr Jessica Hochman is a board certified pediatrician, mom to three children, and she is very passionate about the health and well being of children. Most of her educational videos are targeted towards general pediatric topics and presented in an easy to understand manner.
Do you have a future topic you'd like Dr Jessica Hochman to discuss? Email Dr Jessica Hochman askdrjessicamd@gmail.com.
Follow her on Instagram: @AskDrJessica
Subscribe to her YouTube channel! Ask Dr Jessica
Subscribe to this podcast: Ask Dr Jessica
Subscribe to her mailing list: www.askdrjessicamd.com
The information presented in Ask Dr Jessica is for general educational purposes only. She does not diagnose medical conditions or formulate treatment plans for specific individuals. If you have a concern about your child's health, be sure to call your child's health care provider.
In this conversation, Jessica interviews Diane Boden, host of the Minimalist Mom podcast. Diane talks about the challenges of living with less in a world focused on consumerism and the importance of being intentional with possessions. Diane provides practical tips for decluttering books and toys, and overall the conversation highlights the benefits of minimalism and Diane Boden discusses strategies for decluttering and organizing kids' toys and sentimental items. She emphasizes the importance of prioritizing favorite things and helping children notice when they no longer play with certain items. She encourages parents to focus on experiences and relationships rather than material possessions. She concludes by sharing her thoughts on minimalism as a way of life.
Takeaways
Dr Jessica Hochman is a board certified pediatrician, mom to three children, and she is very passionate about the health and well being of children. Most of her educational videos are targeted towards general pediatric topics and presented in an easy to understand manner.
Do you have a future topic you'd like Dr Jessica Hochman to discuss? Email Dr Jessica Hochman askdrjessicamd@gmail.com.
Follow her on Instagram: @AskDrJessica
Subscribe to her YouTube channel! Ask Dr Jessica
Subscribe to this podcast: Ask Dr Jessica
Subscribe to her mailing list: www.askdrjessicamd.com
The information presented in Ask Dr Jessica is for general educational purposes only. She does not diagnose medical conditions or formulate treatment plans for specific individuals. If you have a concern about your child's health, be sure to call your child's health care provider.
Hi everybody, I'm Dr. Jessica Hochman, paediatrician, and mom of three. On this podcast I like to talk about various paediatric health topics, sharing my knowledge not only as a doctor, but also as a parent. Ultimately, my hope is that when it comes to your children's health, you feel more confident, worry less, and enjoy your parenting experience as much as possible. So if you're like me, you aspire to live a life with less clutter. However, it can feel like a nearly impossible feat with children in your home. And as much of a gift it is to have children, let's face it, they certainly do come with a lot of stuff. So today, I'm excited to share my conversation with Diane, the host of the very popular podcast, the minimalist moms podcast. And today she is going to share many practical tips about how we can live a more intentional life, and how to start living with less clutter. This is an episode you're not gonna want to miss. It certainly inspired me. And I think, Diane for coming on the podcast. And quickly before I start with the interview, I'd like to ask you to take a moment and leave a five star review for ask Dr. Jessica, more reviews helps other people find this podcast, which really makes a difference in helping the podcast grow. And for anyone who has left a review, I am truly appreciative. So tell me about yourself. I'm so curious how you got into being a minimalist how you got into starting your podcast, your book, how did it all begin for you, I would say that I had a light bulb moment back in my early 20s. So for my husband and I, we were in my parents basement, and we were looking for something and he looked at me and he said, Look at all these things that are now in boxes that were once your dad's harder and working hours. And up until that point, I felt like I was just working to like I was living paycheck to paycheck, I was buying all I had all new clothes, but I really had nothing to show for my hard working hours. And it just really struck me that I wanted more to show even if that was just experiences, even if that was just photos of the experiences that I had. And so we never really had a dialogue there. It was just something that struck me of okay, what have I been doing? Why have I been wasting my time for things that are frivolous or just not meaningful, like in the grand scheme of things. And so we just started putting our money towards, again, experiences or just being more intentional. And so it may be started out as a bit more frugality than minimalism. But I would say that that was like a pinpoint Turning Point moment for me that I was like I no longer want to be someone that is not thoughtful about the experience I'm trying to cultivate or the way that I spend my money. It's so true what you say about the boxes, I think about that sometimes we moved about a year ago. And for a few months, we had most of our things in storage, probably 90%. And yes, some of the things I missed from time to time, maybe a book here or there. But most things that were in storage I didn't really think about. And I thought about that so much because it was a great reminder of what I really don't need in my life. Yes, we just recently moved and we moved in what we needed. And then everything else we kept in the garage, and I told my husband, I'm like, we're the gatekeepers of what comes into this house. And we're going to go through every last item in this garage before it comes into our home. And I will say probably a good 60% of the things we donated, got rid of gave away. And then we're still going through some of the stuff out there. But you can live with so much less than you think. And we're going to talk about minimalism with kids. But like you have children bringing things in, you have people not necessarily obliging to what you've asked them in regards to gifts. And so you just kind of pick up these things. And it's you need to go through on the regular to make sure that you have what you love. I like that rule of thumb. If something comes in, if you get a new sweatshirt, maybe give a sweatshirt away. That's a good concept. Oh, yeah, I tried to do that with my clothes, one in one out. And I mean, that's I have little like techniques of what we've implemented around the house of just the little simple rules to live by that make it much more manageable. And the one in one out rule is what I love to do with my clothing. Like that. I like that. So after your 20s Where you became more intentional about how you want to live your life, thinking more about experiences. How did it come to be that you have a podcast now and you wrote a book? Is there something else that happened along the way? It's funny, I always forget, like whenever I'm telling my story, I always forget to connect those two things. So I will do it now. So my husband and I were living that way again. It was more of a frugal lifestyle as opposed to minimalism. But I became interested in people like Joshua Becker, or there's a book called simplicity parenting once we started having kids, just people, Cortney Carver, she wrote project, I think it's 333. So people that were trying to do with less, and so I had this thing in the back of my head of how I wanted to live and then there was a girl that was at my mops, which is mom's a preschooler. pre-schoolers, she wanted to start a podcast. And I also wanted to start a podcast. So I have these desires, found this girl that wanted to start a podcast, we met for drinks, and we were talking about what we had in common. And she had similar interests. However, it was interesting because at the time, I was living in about 900 square feet, and she was in over 3000 square feet. But we both desire to live, intentional, minimalist lifestyles. And we're like, this could be something here. So she and I started this podcast, I think it was back in 2016. So I just had one kid at that point. And she and I did it for two years, I, she stepped right away, right when I had my second. I paused for a few months. And then I was like, Okay, I think I'm going to keep doing this. I'm going to make it more interview, interview based. And I mean, we're four or five, six years, and at this point where I've been doing it, on my own, it's been really exciting and mind blowing, and unexpected. And all all of the things that I have this podcast now and the book came about during COVID, which is really just, I guess, an extension of the podcast, but just some of my thoughts that I put into practice in regards to the mind, the possessions and relationships, no, and I think so many of us want to get started to be more minimalist or more intentional in our life, but it's hard to know where to start, it's very overwhelming, especially if you have a lot of clutter in your house. Yeah. For me, I like being a minimalist, I strive to be more of a minimalist, really, for practical purposes, I tend to be a little bit absent minded, I can lose things. And so for me to get a lot done. And for me to get all that I want to get accomplished, I find that I have to be a minimalist, I have to like my husband, for example, he can work with clutter, and I really can't I lose things, I misplace things, I can't find my keys. So I find that in my life, I have to keep things really simple, I have to throw a lot of things away, I can't have a lot of clutter around me. So I I love like learning tips and tricks from people that are better at it than me. Because all of it really helps my life run a lot more smoothly. But all of this is why I'm so excited to pick your brain and learn from you. And also, by the way, I love listening to your podcast, it's very helpful. Oh, I'm so glad. What I was going to say in regards to you feeling overwhelmed by the things I think it's that's natural. What is innate in us is not chaos, we want things to be at put an order. And we want order. And I think sometimes the chaos is an outward representation of how we are actually inside. And sometimes it's hard to get things together when we feel chaotic in our minds or our schedules. And I think that the things are some sometimes not always an outward representation of what is going on inside. So honestly, what I've learned over the past 10 years of interviewing people and living this way is that it really comes down to your mind it really comes down to being rational and, and honest with yourself. And then I think once you can get that in order, it makes it so much easier to go to go through your home and address the things the actual tangible things. I'm just curious for people that are listening, can you give them some practical first steps to maybe think about putting minimalist practices into their life? Sure. So like I said, I think I, my answer would have been different even a few years ago of where I'd say to start, I always have said, tangibly start in the bathroom once you get to the decluttering point because you don't want to start with something sentimental. That seems too overwhelming. However, I think now the best method of success is if you again, go into your mind and are honest with yourself about what is a pain point for me here in my home. And I've done a couple of assessments with friends where I've gone through their home and seeing the pain points, one of which could be laundry, and you're like, Okay, I have all this laundry that I can't ever maintain. And when I went through my friend's house, they had this problem. I was like, Oh, you have far too many clothes, you have far too many clothes, you need to cut your wardrobe in half, and then you probably be able to keep up. And what we found out was that her identity was really wrapped up in her clothing and the way that she presented herself outwardly. So it seems like when you just get to the root of why we own the things that we do or why we have an abundance of things that can be the scarcity mindset, or I'm maybe I need that for the future. We're dealing with all these other things that, again, are not the tangible items. But I think starting to declutter, I would just write down the things that seem to overwhelm you in your home and then start from there. I like to write it down. I think it's really helpful not just to visualise it on the paper, but to just get it out of you because you you can process as much as you want in your head but until you actually like say it out loud or to write it down. I think it's just, it can be fleeting or we never actually address it. it, it's so true. And I find very satisfying when you write something down, then you cross it off your to do list. Oh, I agree with you, I like writing things down and crossing it off. It's very satisfying. Absolutely. But yeah, I would say, again, if you write that down, you definitely don't want to start going through the baby items. First, I would always say start with things that don't have as much sentimental attachment to them. But also, when you do address those items, at some point, remember that the item is a representation of their memory, it's not that your memory that you're getting rid of, sometimes what I do is I'll just take a picture of something. So if there's an item that I'm having trouble letting go of, I take a picture of it. And then at least in my mind, I know I can get back to it, if I want to remember it or see it again, for myself, my my journey really began, I lived in an apartment with my husband, we first got married, and then we were saving for a home and we had one kid in that apartment. Then we had a second kid. And then we moved apartments from a one bedroom to a two bedroom. And then we had a third kid. In our two bedroom apartment, our third child slept in the closet, that was the only space we had for her, the other two kids were in the second bedroom. And by necessity, we had to only have in our apartment, what we really needed. The double stroller that we had was such a prized possession that took up a lot of space, but we had to make sure it folded up. Like everything that was in our apartment was intentionally there served a purpose in our life. And things that weren't helpful, we really had to get rid of if we wanted to be able to think and function in our space, and our apartment was just over 800 square feet with three kids. And so we learned that, you know, we sort of gotten to the habit of getting the kids out of the out of the apartment, we would spend our days out and about, we were never really at home with our children. And I remember reading this book called trees make the best mobiles. Really, it was it was a great book. And it really it really made the point that kids really don't need shiny toys, they don't need a tonne of stuff, you can really take them out into nature and nature conserve some of the best toys for them. And so I tried to really adopt those principles. You know, it's harder now I think as you as the kids get older, they want more stuff, they bring more things home. But definitely that has stayed with me that trying to keep our life as simple as possible, I think in a lot of ways works the best for my family. No, we were the same way. And I think we live in about the same square footage. When we bought brought home our third baby and we were fortunate we moved not long after that was like three weeks after he was born. But we also weren't at home as much because it just seemed like it would be a little bit more chaotic. Sometimes with two little toddlers running around. And we wanted to be out we wanted to be in nature, though, we would also just go out into nature. Or we would go to the art museums, one of the things that I do with gifting is I'd have people gift us the the art museum or the zoo, or we have a cool science museum here. So we had memberships to everything, and we would just kind of pop around. And I know that's not every moms personality. But for me. I don't know that's I think that's the way that I spend quality time with my kids is going out and doing those things. It keeps me from having to buy so many toys that also don't keep their interest and they get decision fatigue, I'm noticing that right now with my son, he has his own room and this new house that we're in, and now that he has so many toys in his room, I'm noticing he actually plays with none of them, because I think he's so overwhelmed by the number. And I'm like, Okay, we need to get some stuff out. Because even though the visual boundaries, which we can talk about this too, I usually give my kids a shelf or some type of visual boundary that they can fill up. And once it's full, it's too much. But I feel like even with that in his room, it is too much. And he has that decision fatigue. So it's time to go back through. How do your family members? How do they view your minimalist approach? Does everybody accept it? Um, I mean, no, I don't think so. I think especially like for the older generation, some of them think we're crazy for what we for the lack. And again, we just recently moved and this house that we're in is big, and we more so wanted to move to acreage versus having a big home it kind of like the house came with the acres that we wanted. However, with certain rooms in this house, there's no furniture in them. And I kind of have just closed off those rooms to say like, we don't really exist in here and that's okay. And some people might be like, Oh, why did you buy that much space then? I don't know, maybe one day we'll use that space. Maybe we can set those spaces up as guest rooms or even like rented out as an Airbnb. I don't know. But I think just the simple fact of our family members saying you have this space that you haven't filled up or you haven't decorated that's crazy and it's like no, I just I don't have to do that I living a minimalist lifestyle, or even like Can intentional lifestyle it seems so counterculture, because I feel like the culture is just like, instant gratification. What can I buy? What can I show off to show my wealth? What can I show off to show my success? And it's just like, I don't know, I don't want to live that way. No, it's true. And I, I think about this too, because we recently bought a bigger house, we moved in, as I mentioned about a year ago. And it's so easy for stuff to accumulate, because you have a house and because you have more space, I can see it now that we're not in apartment, you have more drawers and you have more space, it's almost easier to let things just pile up. What I can't stand is it becomes junk, right? If it just goes into a drawer, you never see it again, it might as well not be there. No, I definitely understand. And with this space, gosh, that I admitted on your podcast, I'll admit it, it is 3000 square feet that we have here. And again, I'm sitting in a room that's has a TV on the ground and a mattress where where guests can sleep, we will probably set it up at some point. But I was noticing the first two weeks that we were here, it was like, it is so hard to stay on top of mess when there's so much space to live in. And I was finding that I was just going around and picking up after my kids constantly. And I do I appreciate the insight that I have now, like people that have asked me how do I keep it clean? How do I live in this amount of space? Now I'm getting this insight because I used to just be like, Oh, you're not working as hard or like you can you can get a control, you can get it controlled. But I it's hard to control. And I think you really have to set strict boundaries with where the toys are going to remain. Or maybe you do have to just shut off certain rooms. I know this all sounds crazy. And I can't believe I've been admitting all of this to a podcast, or on a podcast interview. But I think if you don't set up boundaries with your kids, and the things that it will become too difficult to manage. I'm just curious, after doing this podcast, do you feel like it's really positively impacted your life and the way you live? Absolutely. And I will also say it's helped my mind probably more so even then things I think I had a pretty good grasp on the things. But it was really coming down to or it came down to my schedule, the relationships that I have the way that I want to live and better myself. And I feel like the guests that I have on at this point because I think it it can be really polarising hearing minimalist moms because people will just scroll past it and say I'm not a minimalist, but it's so much more than that. Or at least it's evolved. My podcast has evolved to be so much more than that. And I do think everything is connected. But I would say for me personally, the relational element of so many people that I've had on and interviewed of just like how we manage relationships, or our emotions has been so impactful to me. Do you think your kids are watching you and learning to be more of a minimalist as well? Or do you feel like they still want all the toys and that it's hard to have the balance between the two were kids? Because I feel like kids naturally want things. And so that that mindset might be hard to impress upon kids? Do you find that your kids are learning from you as well? My daughter, yes, she's nine, I think she has a tendency like a natural draw towards order and wanting to have her room a little bit more composed. But what was fun about that was that at our old house, it got completely out of control at one point. And I told her I'm like, once we clean this up, you will be able to move through your space so much easier. And once she had that contrast of this is how it is and this is what it looks like now, she has kept her room tidy for the past 18 months 18 to 24 months, like she wants her room to be tidy because she wants to be able to like interact in her room the way that like freely. With my boys. They're six and just turned four. So one their boys I don't I don't necessarily think that that matters. But my six year old just he would have every Lego from the store. I don't think that he has any type of discipline when it comes to what we have in the home. And I do think at some point, once they're out of the home, yes, I can. I can show them an example of how to live but at some point, they're going to have to make it their own. They're going to have to make their own lifestyles. And I just hope that like some of this stuff catches on, but I would say they do have less so in that way, maybe they'll always be used to that even if it wouldn't be necessarily their preference. Like that's what they're used to. So as they grow, maybe they will notice that but I just feel like they're still so young at this point. I do think you can get kids used to a certain lifestyle. And if they don't get things all the time, if anything, they're more appreciative when they do get things. Yeah, I think so. Yeah, I think so. And we also with the scheduling. They know well, they know that we love being out in nature. So I think that in that sense they can go outside especially in the summer months and play all day outside. And I have noticed that with other kids I'm just not making that a priority. Kids want to play video games. And I'm not saying there's anything wrong with that my husband likes to play video games. I like to play video games if I were to sit down and do it. But I think that just where they're putting their efforts and energy, if you prioritise that, I do think that they have a tendency, especially if they're younger to have that as a part of their foundation. Absolutely. No, that's, uh, I like that a lot. Okay, so now I was wondering if I could ask you about some very common cluttering scenarios. And I'm wondering how you deal with them so that maybe parents can take a glimmer of your advice into their own life potentially. So first, what do you do about books? I feel like my house has so many books. I struggle with this because I love books. I love when my kids are reading books, but we have too many books. So what's your advice for not letting books take over your home? Okay, so it's not just with books, I would say with anything, I think you constantly have to reassess what you have and go through it and see is this still something that I'm reading and I love. I don't love keeping too many things for the what ifs, like our I'll read this one day. But I think with books, especially my husband, I wrote English majors, we have bookshelves, it's something that actually we have an abundance of we love to read, I want my kit My kids love to read. So because that's something that we love, we use, we are regularly going through I'm not opposed to putting it like a limit on it, how many that we have, I would say if that if you are not reading books anymore, it's time to like maybe go back through and declutter. But someone has asked me this about art supplies. They're like, Oh, we have so many arts and crafts. And to me, I'm like, if you're using it great, don't have things in your house that you don't use and love. I think some minimalists can get really rigid, and I just don't think it's realistic with kids to. To put numbers on things like to have a certain amount I would just say is as long as you're constantly going back through and assessing what you have, I don't know, I think you can keep the clutter at bay that way, I agree with you, I think the message shouldn't always be not having anything, because there's a lot of things that we can enjoy and get use from and build memories with with our kids. I find personally with books, I started to take my kids to the library more which I like, because we'll rent out a book and then I give it back to the library when they're done reading it. I also find that helps to periodically go through the books and just look at what we love reading. And then there's some things that we just aren't into anymore. For example, my son wasn't into Pokemon for months and months and months, and now he's not as interested. And so I just asked him, I said, Look at all these Pokemon books, which are your favourites, and then we donated the rest. So I don't know that those are the tips that I've used in my life. Yeah, I think with characters like that with anything like Disney or Pokemon, anything with a character I try to really limit in our house because it does seem I don't want to say a trend. But it does seem fleeting, like maybe this won't last forever. So with the books, I try to get those types of books from the library, because I feel like their interests are constantly evolving. I think with things like that, yes, going back through assessing agree with you, it's things that are classic things that you know, you're gonna get you sad for a long period of time, hold on to those but things that might be more fleeting, like character books, check them out at the library, or at least purchase few of them. Yeah, there's a lot of minimalist, or people that are in a Montessori type learning that are all about the wooden toy, like you can't have any electric obnoxious toys in your house. And if I'm honest, I do love the look of that. However, my kids have had some pretty obnoxious toys that they've been gifted over the years. And you know what it is first season. And maybe I wouldn't choose it, but it's something that they love and use, and then they're over it, and then you can donate it. But I think that I don't know you are crafting the life that best suits you and your family and only you and your partner can make those decisions for the household. And I think that it's nice to be influenced even by someone like you or I like it's nice to to hear what we have to say, but pick and choose what is valuable to you and leave behind the rest. So it doesn't have to be so picturesque and you don't have to emulate someone's exact lifestyle. Like we really are just trying to be as intentional as we possibly can, for the way that we want to live our lives. I agree with you. That's really what it's about. Well, that's what I want my show to be about. It's like, Hey, I'm going to present you with tonnes of different types of information, the same that you're doing to like, I'm going to present you with information. You don't have to believe everything or take everything to heart, take away what's beneficial to you and leave the rest behind. And that's kind of what I do like think more and do with less. You're just kind of thinking more to craft the life that you want. And I would say the same thing with the toys that you're bringing in or the things that you're bringing in. I agree with you I when I when I talk about a minimalist lifestyle are being more intentional, it's not to say at all that I don't believe kids should have things or that we shouldn't have things in our house that we enjoy and use. Yeah, but I do find when I just keep the objects in my house that we really love. You focus on those things more, if you have too much stuff in your house, it all gets lost, it's hard to find anything, it's hard to know what there is. And so sometimes I'll go through, you know, my kids don't like when I do this, but I'll have them go through the clutter in their rooms. And they'll find things that they were missing, they'll rediscover toys that they used to love. And so I do think it's really helpful to actually spend time and sift through all the stuff. Yeah, and it does take time. But once you get that under your belt, once you get that initial decluttering process done, it's much easier to maintain the the accumulation of things, it's not is vasta. It's not as many things coming in, because you have kind of done the hard work. And now you can just kind of address things as they're slowly coming in. And that's one thing that I try and stay on top of is anything that comes in, I try to address it right then in there before it really like has a home in my house and that accumulation cycle like kind of nipping it right then in there. Like today that's coming in today, at the end of the school day or for the next birthday, you can address that stuff right then in there before it makes its way and and just sits in your home. I'm so happy to address that. Because some that's something that I definitely agree with as well and try to try to try to keep into practice in my life, I really try to watch what comes into the home. Because once it comes into the home, you know, it just becomes quickly part of the clutter in your house. Yeah, yeah, I like to have a home for everything. Even if it's a junk drawer, at least it's like, Hey, this is the miscellaneous item drawer. And, and I only have one of those drawers. But I try to make sure everything has a home. And if it doesn't, it's like wait, why do I have this? Why is this taking up space? Why is this taking up space in my brain, this inventory of things that I have to maintain? It's so true. It's so true. So speaking of toys, something that I think is hard for a lot of parents is kids get very attached to their things. How do you recommend that parents declutter their kids toys without their kids getting upset? Yeah, I think it's probably you have to look at the ages. I think for my four year old, I can probably declutter a little bit more that he is unaware of like kind of just noticing what he plays with. And then I can set stuff aside that he's not really playing with. And if he doesn't ask me for it within a certain timeframe, I just usually get rid of it. But for my nine year old, usually her and I will go through her room and I'll say what do you love? You're not talking about what you're getting rid of, you're talking about the things that you love and prioritising those. And I think that kind of switching your brain like that, when you're starting to assess clutter. I feel like it's more helpful for kids to not think of what they're lacking, but what they have and what their favourite things are. And then again, just helping them notice like, Hey, I've noticed you haven't played with this in quite some time. Do you maybe want to set it aside to give it to your cousin or you can donate it to whatever I try to find donation centres that are most beneficial if I have the time. But I just think helping them notice. And also I think when the kids are older if you do create those visual boundaries that they can fill up the space, but once it's filled, then we have to reassess and make room for new things. That's important, but I just don't want to be incredibly forceful as they're getting older. Because I do think it backfires. And I do think to be your own individual person, that they should be allowed to have the things that maybe we wouldn't choose like I'm thinking about Squish Squish mellows. Is that what they're called those little stuffed animals. Oh my gosh, I have my son has like 10 of them. They kill me. Yes, I've never taken so much space. Yes, they do. I've never purchased one, but she's been gifted them from her grandparents. And it's like you know what? You if you want to put this in this little bin that you have or like have a few of them on your bed. That's fine. Like that's what you love and I don't want to take that away from you because again I don't want it to backfire on me one day and her just be a hoarder of sorts. Yes, no, I have the same thing. I I've never purchased a squish mela but my son has a lot of them. And I tried to conveniently lose them during our move last year, but my son asked about them so in fairness to him, I did keep them in his room. But I I agree with you. I don't they don't bother me because I know well, they they do bother me a little bit but they don't bother me so much because I know that he actually enjoys them. So I to your point. I agree with you. Yeah. No, and you make a really good point. I was gonna say my tip for decluttering kids toys. It only really works when they're little is I tried to hide the toys in their room that I don't think they're using I'll put it in my car. I'll put it in the trunk for a couple of months. And if they ask about Then which they usually don't, if they asked about them, then I'll bring the toy out for my car. But if they don't ask about the toy, and it's been a few months at that point, then I'll donate it. And I try to remind myself that all toys really are replaceable. Oh my God, even if you do give it away, and they asked for it, you can always buy something else again. Or you can find it on Facebook marketplace. I do. usually don't have to buy it again. But it gives me peace of mind that you can't find it again. Yeah, yeah, I think my big thing is that I don't love the idea of getting into the habit of lying to your kids. So like, oh, I don't know where that went. I wonder where it went. Like, I don't think we should be doing that. Just because I think it's a bad habit. I don't ever want that to backfire either. So I think there are ways to do it kind of like sneaky ish, where you do just kind of put it away and allow them to ask for it. If they don't, it's like out of sight out of mind. They're not gonna remember it. That's a really good point. Because my kids are onto me, they know that I didn't like to get rid of things. Yeah. So I don't want them to be hiding from me or feel like they can't be honest with me. If they're fearful that I'm gonna get rid of their things. So I totally agree with you on that. Yeah. And the other thing that I find tricky is they bring a lot from school, there's a lot of papers from school, a lot of homework that comes in from school. And that can also take time to declutter and figure out what stays in the house and what goes well, and if everything's your favourite, nothing's your favourite, I have to tell my daughter that and actually, I use that with myself too. With clothing, it's like, okay, not everything can be my favourite thing. And so for her, I'm like, not everything's your favourite bit of artwork. So actually what I do with their, their artwork, and things like that, like more sentimental, they each have these big bins from The Container Store, we put the things that they really love. In the end, even I will go through and assess that. And then with my oldest, now that she's old enough, I'll get it out like once a year, or once every six months, and she goes through and sees what she still wants to keep or what's special. And we might be able to pull a few things out to make more space. So it's like, not everything's gonna be your favourite, keep the most special thing, keep the most special picture on your iPhone of your kid and their event. Like don't keep 20 have the same kind of similar image, like keep one or two and then delete it because it just all starts to build, and you cannot possibly keep it all. And you know, it's really morbid, but I do think about at some point, oh, gosh, I hate it so much. But at some point, I'm like, someone's going to throw away all these things that were your treasures. Someone's not even going to think just about it. I think about that all the time. I was hoping you're gonna say that. Because I think about that all the time. Yeah, it's not a great thing to think about. But it's like, why am I keeping these things that someone like, I have my treasure box and my, a few people in my life have, whenever I pass, they know what to do with those things are like, Hey, keep this picture like hand that down. That's, that's something that I want to keep in the family. But other than that, it's like most of these things are just here for a time. And I don't want to take this turn, like towards the end of our conversation. But like, it really does help you see that we need to be a little bit less attached to these things. And it's okay, if we get rid of every, like the majority of our kids like little family portraits that they draw, choose your favourite from that time period. And then it's okay to toss the rest or take a picture like you said, yes, no, I think about that a lot. It sounds morbid, but I really tried to frame it into a positive way of thinking, knowing that life isn't forever. What do I want to get out of life? What do I want to leave behind for my kids. And the more and more I think about it really, for me is all about experiences, carving out free time, spending time with them, getting out and doing things with them, teaching them things and stuff. You know, the truth is that there's certain material possessions that I really do enjoy, but it all loses its lustre after time, abs everything, every new clothing article will lose its lustre you get a new car, it loses its lustre. But the things that really don't lose their lustre are quality relationships, my children, you know, good friends, any kind of quality relationship does not lose its lustre. That's really where I want to invest my time and my money. Yeah, and it's hard. I love clothes. I have always loved clothes. I've always, always been interested in fashion to to a point. But I was, I noticed that I'll start online shopping or like, just even if I'm browsing, I'll start doing that when I'm in a time of stress. If I'm not sleeping, or if I'm overwhelmed with something going on in life. I'll start doing that as like that dopamine hit. And I remember we're getting ready to move and I was just feeling overwhelmed. I remember I was on Lucky Brand. And I saw a t shirt that I wanted. And I was like, I'm just gonna buy this t shirt for myself. And then I actually visualised myself wearing the t shirt out for the first time. And I was like, you're going to come home and put this back in your closet and it's going to not be exciting anymore. You're going to wear it that first time and I was like it's not worth however, it's already $5 for a T shirt, it's not worth your money, like your money, you'd rather go out and have drinks with a friend or go on a date night with your husband, like, that's going to last that you're going to invest in, you're investing in relationships, and that T shirt, you have t shirts that's fleeting. And I have to walk myself through that sometimes when I'm starting to feel like I want more, or I don't have enough, or I don't have the coolest clothes, I have to really talk myself through that day. And I love that tip. Because I think now it's so easy. It's all too easy just to click on Amazon and buy something. And being able to visualise I think would help give me pause, and maybe keep me from buying things so quickly. So that's a, I think that's a great tip. Thank you. Yeah, I mean, it really, like I said, it's something that I just do love. And I know it's so easy to go in there and buy things and I was saying this on someone else's podcast, it doesn't even have to be a shopping addiction for us to notice we really have a tendency to shop when we are trying to fill some other void. And again, it's not easy for me to do. But when I can bring it to the prefrontal cortex of my brain and say like, Wait, what are you doing? In some ways, I feel like we live in a great time because you can be a consumer relatively cheaply, you can go to TJ Maxx, you can go to Marshalls, there's so many things that you can buy, but it can work against us in a lot of ways. I don't know I think about this a lot. I think that, like I think about the internet in general, or social media and all this stuff like the access that we have, I think over the last several years of thinking through this, where I've landed is that I think it's worse, I think it's not great. I think that we value things over people in relationships, I think that it becomes addictive, I think it becomes something to fill voids. I think it I don't know, people used to keep their things for so long. I think we've become so addicted to the dopamine hit of being able to get whatever we want whenever we want. And I don't know if we're better for it. It's nice. It's nice. And I benefit from Amazon delivering 24 hours later, sometimes same day, I benefit from that. But do I think it's better? No, I think I'm more a worse person for it personally, there's an expression that you use that I'd love you to talk about how you say this is about a way of life. It's a it's being a minimalist for you as a way of life. It's not temporary. Yeah, yeah, I just always want to be. For me at this point, I'm 35, I just want to keep being the best me that I can be. And sometimes when I'm pursuing one area, the other area drop, I want to have a little bit more balanced in every area. And it is something that I'm always trying to achieve. And I don't ever think I'll arrive especially because I have other people that I'm managing, even if it's just my husband once we're empty nesters. But yeah, I think it's a way that we have to just keep coming back to and like checking ourselves. And it is so counterculture, that I think that weekers constantly having to fight against it. Like I'm constantly having to fight I have to be on Instagram for my business. I am constantly having to fight those advertisements that know exactly what I want and the exact sweater that I want or the exact cool tech thing they want. And it is a way of life to say no, I would choose to put my energies and efforts elsewhere. Absolutely no, I feel the same way. I'm constantly carving out minutes to unsubscribe from emails, because I'm constantly getting emails, knowing exactly what I would want to get what I would want to buy. So I just devote a few minutes every month just to unsubscribe, unsubscribe, because it all takes your attention. As we finish up this conversation. Is there anything left that you'd like parents to learn from you? You Yeah, I'm sorry. I feel like we didn't direct it completely towards parents. We were kind of just talking in general. But I think that parents can take away what we talked about too. But no, I think that kids are adaptable. Kids will come alongside of us kids are watching us and learning from us. And so we are the gatekeepers of our home, we do get to make decisions about what comes in and what goes. We can bring them on board with us as much as possible, but they still are their own people. So helping create boundaries, like you and I've talked about for them I think is so helpful, with still remaining autonomous with some boundaries. So I don't know I always tell people you can live with less than you think. And you should tell the audience also where can they find you? Where can they hear your fantastic podcast? Where can they find your book? What's your website, tell everything to spread the word about who you are and what you're doing? Yeah, the podcast is minimalist moms. And that's available anywhere where you listen to podcasts. And my book is also by the same name and most moms living in parenting with simplicity. And I have a new project. I think I'm launching it in February, but I have a new podcast. So follow along with minimalist moms and you'll see that project as well. But yeah, it's pretty easy to find online. Thank you so much. Thank you for listening, and I hope you enjoyed this week's episode of Ask Dr. Jessica. Also, if you could take a moment and leave a five star review wherever it is you listen to podcasts, I would greatly appreciate it. It really It makes a difference to help this podcast grow you can also follow me on Instagram at ask Dr Jessica See you next Monday