Ep 169: How to sugar detox with our kids after the holidays?! with Dr Michael Goran

Ep 169 of Your Child is Normal! (Note the new podcast title!!!) 

On today's episode Dr. Michael Goran discusses the impact of sugar on children's health, the challenges of reducing sugar intake, and practical strategies for families to manage sugar consumption.  Dr Goran’s approach is practical, he doesn’t advocate for no sugar, just less if it.   He offers actionable steps for parents to help their children develop healthier eating habits. The discussion also highlights the significance of teaching kids about nutrition and making informed choices regarding sugar.

*To listen to Dr Goran as a past guest, and learn more tips to help lessen sugar in your family life, you can refer back to episode 69!

Takeaways

• Short-term effects of sugar can motivate children to reduce intake.
• A week-long sugar fast can reset cravings and preferences.
• Teaching kids to read labels helps them make informed choices.
• Moderation is key; complete deprivation is not sustainable.
• Quality over quantity: choose better treats when possible.

Dr Goran is one of the worlds leading experts in the field of childhood obesity, and author of “Sugarproof: The Hidden Dangers of Sugar That Are Putting Your Child’s Health at Risk and What You Can Do.” Dr Michael Goran is a Professor of Pediatrics at The Children’s Hospital of Los Angeles.  He is Program Director for Diabetes and Obesity at the Saban Research Institute.Dr. Goran also serves as Co-Director of the USC Diabetes and Obesity Research Institute. Dr. Goran is a native of Glasgow, Scotland, and received his Ph.D. from the University of Manchester, UK.Dr. Goran has published over 350 professional peer-reviewed articles and reviews. He is the Editor of the “Childhood Obesity: Causes, Consequences and Intervention Approaches” published in 2017, co-editor of “Dietary Sugars and Health” published in late 2014, and currently serves as Editor-in-Chief for Pediatric Obesity.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1cScRDJ1MLFDfkuKFZlqhdW6BepwKzjrs

Dr Jessica Hochman is a board certified pediatrician, mom to three children, and she is very passionate about the health and well being of children. Most of her educational videos are targeted towards general pediatric topics and presented in an easy to understand manner.

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Instagram: @AskDrJessica
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Website: www.askdrjessicamd.com

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The information presented in Ask Dr Jessica is for general educational purposes only. She does not diagnose medical conditions or formulate treatment plans for specific individuals. If you have a concern about your child's health, be sure to call your child's health care provider.

Transcript

Unknown: 0:00

Hi everybody. I'm Dr Jessica Hochman, pediatrician and mom of three. On this podcast, I like to talk about various pediatric health topics, sharing my knowledge, not only as a doctor, but also as a parent. Ultimately, my hope is that when it comes to your children's health, you feel more confident, worry less and enjoy your parenting experience as much as possible. Today, we're tackling a topic that's on a lot of parents' minds, especially after the holiday season, sugar. If you feel like your family's been stuck in a cycle of too many sweets and hidden sugars, you're not alone. So to help us navigate this, I'm joined by Dr Michael Goren, one of the world's leading experts on childhood nutrition and the health effects of sugar. He's a Professor of Pediatrics at Children's Hospital Los Angeles, and co author of sugar proof the hidden dangers of sugar that are putting your child's health at risk, and what you can do in this episode, Dr Gorn and I discuss practical ways to reduce added sugar in your home and without making food a battle. What I so appreciate about his approach is that he's not advocating for a no sugar lifestyle, but rather offers realistic strategies to cut back in meaningful ways. If you're looking for a reset after the holidays, you're gonna love this episode. So thank you so much for coming back on the podcast. For those of you listening, I've had the pleasure of having Dr Goren on on maybe a couple years ago, and it was a great episode. So anybody listening, definitely go back and take a listen. But I'm so happy to have you on after you are on. I have to tell you, I got so much feedback from people telling me that they were motivated to change their lifestyle. They were motivated to decrease how much sugar they were consuming and how much sugar their children were consuming. So I thought after the New Year and everybody is back on a sugar kick, I'm sure most people listening can relate to this when I say that, and I'm hoping that a conversation with you will motivate people to think about how much sugar they're consuming and to think about ways to decrease how much they're having in their lives. So thank you so much for for being open to having this conversation always. Yeah, Thanks for Thanks, Jessica, and thanks for getting the message out there to the people that you, that you work with so and before we get started, I'm just curious, how did you become so passionate about sugar? What? What drove you to talking about it, writing about it? Did you read something? Were you motivated by something? How did this come to be? It's really enough. It's really an offshoot from the research that we've been doing for the last 30 plus years, we didn't start off with a focus on sugar. We started off just trying to understand what what the factors were about kids, diet and environment in general, that were contributing to the rapid uptick we were seeing in obesity in children, type two diabetes, fatty liver disease. These things weren't really a big issue when we started doing this research 30 plus years ago, but as we've done the research trying to understand what has changed to lead to the uptick in those diseases, of the typically award seen in children time and time again, we kept seeing not the only factor, but the recurring factor was dietary sugar kept coming up in our analysis to be a significant and modifiable factor, and it just became so apparent that it was an issue. And then there was a realization that we do all this research, but very few people are actually able to read it. And a lot of this was happening, really, before the before social media took off, and I wanted to write a book, starting about 10 years ago, by which time, you know, social media was taking off, there's a lot of misinformation starting to happen. And I, you know, I just wanted to get the research out there to the moms and dads and caregivers that don't necessarily see the research or read the research. And it became my mission to try and translate it, the research, into a practical, hands on useful approach that parents could could implement in their daily lives with their kids. I can see how from your perspective, it's different from what most of us parents think about we don't want our kids to have sugar. We'll tell them, because we know it leads to things like cavities. We know it leads to obesity. We know it's not good for them, but you really understand that it can lead to disease processes in the future. And so I think while it's hard to hear that truth, it's really important to understand that, yeah, so I mean, it's hard to it's always hard to get action on long term prevention issues, because we're talking about 1020, 30 years down the road, but the seeds are definitely planted. But we've also learned about other short term, immediate effects, not just things like cavities and Wiggin that you mentioned, but also learning and memory and ability to focus and do well at school. Studies are showing that these things are also. Impacted by too much sugar and sweetness in the diet. So it's both the short term and the long term effects that really are important, I think, for to get kids to take action, we really need to kind of focus on some of those short, shorter term, more internal motivating factors that they will notice that it will improve, things like skin appearance, doing better at sports, doing better in in the classroom. These are all factors that we've found, or other people have found, to be related to too much sugar, and may motivate kids more than getting diabetes in 20 or 30 years. That's a good point. I've heard public health conversations where they talk about smoking, for example, that if you're talking to teenagers and giving them rationale, why not to smoke? If you talk about lung cancer, that often falls on deaf ears because it's so far out in the future. In the future. But if you talk to them about their skin, how your skin will look more clear if you don't smoke, how your teeth will look better if you don't smoke, that seems to resonate more with the youth, so I can see how that would also be at play with sugar. Yeah. I mean, as a parent, if you're going to talk to your kids about this, you have to, you have to identify and latch on to what the intrinsic motivators are going to be for your kids, and that could be very different for a five year old versus a 15 year old. That's true. So Dr Gordon, part of why I'm happy to have you on is I'm looking for others to be motivated by you, but also for myself in my own life, I must admit, this is a tough time of year, and starting in late October, I have one of my kids birthdays, then there's Halloween, and then another birthday, and then there's Thanksgiving and all the holidays and all the holiday parties. And it's hard to be that parent that's constantly limiting their kids when they feel like they are deserving of treats and desserts. So I have to admit that my kids have had more sugar recently than I wish was true, but now that we are back in the new year, I would love to get us off of that train. So I'm hoping that talking to you will be the Jump Start of this motivation. Yeah, I mean, your kids aren't the only one. I gained a few pounds myself over the holidays, so I think we're all, we're all, we've all kind of in a similar boat, really. So it's pretty typical, and it is a good time to reflect on that and to make changes. And I think every time you do that, you are less likely to succumb the next time, or the next or next year, maybe not quite as bad over you know of a journey down that path of sugar and sweetness, but yeah, it's a recurring issue, and this is a perfect time to reboot system. Do you and I'm curious, do you find that sugar is truly an addiction? People talk about how they're addicted to sugar. Is there validity to that statement, I think there's some validity, you know, there's still some debate on this, and I think it depends on where you are on your on the spectrum of what you think addiction looks like, you know, I think there's certainly too much sugar, and trying To get off sugar meets many of the criteria for for addiction, right? It's if you want to give it up, it's hard. If you do give it up, you can have, you can have side effects or cravings, for example, where it's very difficult to give it up, or you just, just, just, just like, it's hard to give up a drug that you're addicted to, so it shares a lot of the common elements of things that we know are addictive, like tobacco, for example. So you can call it addictive or not, it doesn't really matter. The point is that it is hard to give up, but not as hard as some of those other addictive compounds. And what we found working with families is that the difficult part of the process is only a day or two. It's not a week or two, and there are some pretty, pretty immediate effects after that, of improvement. So there are some addictive elements. It's pretty clear. But the plus on the plus side is it can be overcome pretty quickly. I like hearing that just a day or two, because that's something I think What's hard is when I think in my head about cutting out sugar for a very long amount of time. Let's say I'm going to cut out sugar for a year. That sounds really hard to do, but if you just start with a day or two, that sounds much more doable. So I like hearing that That's good advice. Yeah. I mean, I think that's not always true for everybody, and I think that it may vary depending on how, quote, unquote addicted you are to sweetness or how much you're consuming. I don't think I. Well, my philosophy, and for sure, the philosophy of sugar, proof is that we don't need to give up all sugar forever. I just don't think that's sustainable or a good idea. I mean, I don't think we need to be depriving ourselves of the joys of food and the pleasures of food that we get from from sweetness. The point is that there's, there's a lot of it, and it's very sweet. And I think we can still have that enjoyment by moderating back to more sensible level that's not going to have all those negative impacts you can get. You can get away from those negative impacts on a lower level of shoe. You don't have to give it up completely to get those benefits. Well, that's what's often different. So the pure addictive people will say, Oh, if you're smoking or drinking and you have an addiction, you have to give it up completely, and you can never go back, right? So it's not, I don't view it as that level of addiction, you can definitely scale back on it, maybe cut it out for a week or two to reset the system. But I'm not saying that you can never have sugar again. I just don't think that's feasible or sustainable. You know, at a moderated level, it's not it's not bad for you. Yes, and you're right. That is a big distinction between something like a very addictive drug or smoking cigarettes, where you really are best off stopping forever. I think learning how to have sugar in moderation, that's the key, and that's also really difficult, because it's so hard to stop with just one cookie, especially if they're my mom's cookies, it's really hard to stop with just one? Yeah, I think there's ways to do it. I think the sugar proof is all about how you achieve that, and the more you practice, the better you get at it. So that's why the sugar going on a sugar fast for a week or two, even just a week, actually, is what we promote in sugar proof that that can really reset your internal cravings for sweetness, such that you will, next time, be satisfied with one cookie, not two. Okay, so for people that are listening in sugar proof, that's the book that Dr Gorin beautifully wrote that I highly recommend, you recommend, if you're in a sugar kick, just to take a one week break from added sugar. One week break from added sugar. Yeah, we have a pretty detailed plan on how to do that, because it can be a little tricky. But the goal is to, number one, get everybody on board in your family, and if you can't, there's a there's a plan B. But we'll talk. Let's talk about Plan A for now. You know, just go through your pantry and find out where all the added sugar is coming from. I'm not just I'm not talking about just those cookies from your mom, but you know the other processed foods in your pantry, things like yogurts and dressings and ketchups and even bread and crackers and things like that, 70% of packaged foods have added sugar. So identify what those are. You know, peanut butter is another one that comes up a lot with with young kids. There's lots of products out there. There's lots of peanut butters or yogurts that don't have added sugar. Get rid of the ones that do. Don't buy them. Don't bring them into the house. Don't bring soda into the house. Don't bring juice into the house, your kids will have plenty of opportunity to get that outside of the house. Okay? So just to picture what this will look like with my family, for example, I will have a conversation with the kids and let them know for one week we are not going to have added sugar, and I'm going to talk to them about what we're going to remove from the pantries, remove from the refrigerator, no juice, nothing with added sugars. And then I really want to make sure that they're never feeling hungry. So I want to make sure that I have plentiful foods that they can have in the house. Yeah, you know, I'm just thinking it's tricky, because there's not a ton of options out there, but there, well, it depends for what you're probably thinking about snacks and things like that, but there's plenty of breakfast, lunch and dinner options and even snacks. And we do have, actually, if your listeners are interested, we can get them a more detailed plan on this. There is a plan in the book, but we also have a PDF file with a lot of this information as well, if they want it, I would love that, because I think that's what's hard for people. We want to do the right thing. We want to buy products that don't have that don't have much added sugar, but it's hard like you get to the grocery store and all of a sudden what you're looking at, besides fruits and vegetables and meats, a lot of the cereals have added sugar. There's a lot of, as you mentioned, yogurts have added sugars. So I think that would be really helpful. I would love to see a PDF, just to give people some guidance. Yeah, I can send that to you so you can make it available to your listeners. Thank you. But yeah, so that that's what you're going to do, and then you're going to, you know, how old are your kids. My kids are 911, and 14, yeah, so you might have a little rebellion on your hands for the first day. So you might have to talk to them in advance to prep them a little bit for this and what the benefits are going to be. And they may, they may be unhappy for a day or two, but the families that we worked with for the most part after the after that first day or two, everybody seems to settle down and be more even keeled, have better energy and just have less cravings. And when our kids were little, we used to do this at this time of year with our kids as well. Definitely we'll see benefits. And then, you know, like I said, the next time you give them cookies or juice, they might be more they're going to be more satisfied with less sweetness. You can definitely dampen down cravings for sweetness and dampen down preference for sweetness. Okay, I'm going to be motivated. This is, this is a great this is just what I'm looking for, some good some good reminders and motivation. So I also really like the point how you talk about looking at teaching your children to read labels and to understand added sugar. Because my kids, they do well with budgets. I think thinking about a financial budget, for example, is very fun for them. So if I talk about added sugars as a budget, that works for them. So, so I really appreciated your recommendation from the American Heart Association. That's that stipulates that kids over two should be mindful of their added sugars. And so my kids, who really like budgets, we talk about how they shouldn't go over 25 grams or 24 grams of added sugar, and that helps. So when we go to Trader Joe's and they want to get a chocolate bar or they want to get cereal, we read the added grams of sugar. And so that way it's not a no to those products, but they just know that what they should consume, there's a limit to it. And then it also makes them think, okay, if I know I'm going to Grandma's house tonight and she's going to have a good dessert, maybe during the day, I won't have as much added added sugar. So that's, I think that's a good point for people listening, that teaching your kids to read labels can be really advantageous. Yeah, and not to the point of making them feel like they're, like, totally self monitoring everything they're eating or depriving themselves of anything. So I think, you know, there's a, there's a fine line in there. Absolutely, I completely agree with that. It's I want them to get the idea that they can have sugar, but not too much, without making themselves crazy and hyper focused. Yeah, yeah. I don't think you know, it's a guideline. So it's not like you you know, maybe it's at first. It's a good training tool to to kind of gain more recognition and understanding of of where these added sugars are coming from, we do you do see it on the food label pretty clearly where added sugars are. But in addition to what's labeled as added sugars, we're also saying fruit juice, which is not labeled as an added sugar, even though the nutrition guidelines and the labels do not count it as added sugar, I also think visually, it's helpful to show kids a teaspoon of sugar and then you explain how much sugar is in a can of soda, because I think it's hard to conceptualize how much sugar are in certain products. Yeah, I think it's a very impactful lesson to count it out. I My kids were smaller. I went to their school. I remember my kids still have friends who are in their 20s now, and they said, Oh, I remember when you came to my class and we counted out the sugar. So, yeah. I mean, if you sit down with a cup of tea and start spooning 12 teaspoons of sugar into your tea, and your kid says, What are you doing? Why are you putting so much sugar in your tea? You say, Well, that's how much is in a can of soda. That's insane. That's so much sugar. And nobody would put 12 teaspoons of sugar in their tea, right? No one or two maybe. And I feel guilty putting 212 teaspoons of sugar. That's really that. I think that visual is really important. Okay, for people that are listening, that are thinking, Okay, I want to do something. What would you dr Gorn, have today as a healthy eating day with not much sugar? What? What foods do you like to have in your, in your day to day, if you're trying. To get started on a sugar detox. Yeah, we are doing it. Actually. My wife and I are doing it. As I said, my kids are mostly gone. For us, we sometimes will skip breakfast because we do. We do intermittent fasting a couple of days a week. But if I'm having breakfast, I'll just have some scrambled eggs, maybe a small piece of toast or some fruit or avocado or something like that. This morning, I'm at work, and I had half of a burrito, which was filled with eggs and steak. So it's high protein, low carbs. So have that in the morning, or sometimes I won't eat till like 11 or 12, and then we'll have lunch. Yesterday, we just had some some salads, or some tuna salad, some veg. I'm not snacking during the day. I found that when I do this, I'm not snacking. I'll have some fruit or some nuts, and then, you know, dinner, my wife and I do cook quite a lot. I got some I got some black cod marinating in the fridge in miso that I'm going to broil. Last night, we just had some some burgers, and last night, I had it on half a bun instead of a whole bun with some avocado and pickles on it. So I think you can make these changes with just these small, small modifications tomorrow. Tomorrow's a tennis day. So before Tannis, I'll eat muesli with some plain yogurt. Big fan of plain yogurt, and this is a good way to overcome the yogurt problem, is to buy a good plain yogurt, because you can also get, you know, some of the Greek or Icelandic yogurts, very high in protein, and you get a big boost of probiotics as well. I like I go to the farmer's market every weekend, and I love stopping at the yogurt the yogurt station. They I agree with you. I think yogurt is a great way to get some natural protein. Also, I love mixing some fruit inside. I'll put a little bit of honey in it. That's what I was going to say. Like, you're much better off starting off with a solid base of a good plain yogurt with, solely it's milk and cultures, that's all it is. And so you get a lot of protein. And then you can, if your kids want a little sweetness, that's okay, add a little bit of honey, even add a little bit of their favorite jam. I do that sometimes just, you know, because that way you can control it, a little bit of maple syrup, whatever tasty like. And then you know exactly what you're getting. There's no gum or fillers or preservatives. It's just the yogurt with whatever fruit or little thing you want your kids want to add to it. And then it becomes like a personal little project as well. Now most Americans, I find, tend to want dessert after dinner. That's the time, as Jerry Seinfeld says, that's when the cookies really call his name. Do you have any recommendations for something that might satisfy the sweet tooth in the evening, but that isn't added sugar? Yeah, in those days, it could be a little square for me, a little square of dark chocolate or some nuts or a date or a piece of fruit. But also, you know, I like this. I like dessert. So I think in those situations we're talking about smaller portion sizes, or if I'm making it myself, which I think obviously is preferred, or if your mom's making her cookies, see if you can get her to cut out a little bit of sugar. So if her recipe is calling for a cup of sugar, see if she'll do with three quarters of a cup of sugar. I bet you the cookies will be just as good, yes, and if you do that, they won't be as sweet, and they won't kind of light up the addiction receptors as well as probably, so oftentimes they'll actually taste better because you're not overwhelmed with the sweet taste. You can actually taste whatever kind of a cookie it was trying to be without all that sugar, the taste will shine through more. So I would use less sugar, and I'd make the cookies a bit smaller. And if it's portioning out, you can cut a smaller portion. We when our kids were little, we used to have what we called mini D night. So mini D was just a small piece of dessert, serve it with a nice, you know, cup of tea or herbal tea. So it's still kind of a fun celebration. But it doesn't have to be like a huge, you know, piece of cake, or, you know, two whole huge cookies. You. Something that I do that I know irritates my kids, but when we go out for ice cream, I like to get a large ice cream and then share it amongst my three children. And at first they'll complain, it's not fair, but the truth is that even with the third portion, they are satisfied afterwards. It's just the first few bites that I think people really enjoy the most. But what they do understand and when I tell them that we're saving money this way, also, they do seem to understand it. When I point out that it's also cost savings for the family just to get one, they hear that point more than I'd like you to have less added sugar in your diet for whatever reason. Yeah, I wish some of the ice cream shops would sell just small little portions, like they sell for, like, babies or puppies. Sometimes they'll do that like, because that's what I'm like, because I like ice cream, but I don't need, like, a huge bowl of it. I just like the first couple of bites, like you said, Yes, agree with you. We should start that. We should start that. Yeah, I wish, wish we could, because it's the same with I mean, you can do that in some situations, like if, if your kids like to go to your favorite coffee shop and get whatever crazy drink it is that they like, that you can control. I mean, if you ask like you, you can ask the barista to put one or two pumps of the syrup instead of five or six. So you can definitely be in control of that, or ask for that to be controlled. I actually, and I do that with my kids, and when they hear me ask for 50% sugar or half the amount of sugar. I know it annoys them, but then when they actually do get the drink to your point, they can't tell the difference. It's just as good. They can't tell the difference. Might even be better, but it's standard practice. And like the bubble tea shops will take your order and they always ask you, do you want full sweetness? Half sweetness or quarter sweetness? So it's standard practice there. I wish it was standard practice in some of the other coffee shops. But, you know, another thing I just thought of with the ice cream. I mean, you could, could try this, what, take the regular portion, but just have them put it on three different plates so they get good portion. Yeah, I always I asked for a couple extra cups, and I say, I'll pay for the extra cups. I don't want to irritate the ice cream shop, but it's more just protecting my kids from not consuming too much sugar. Yeah, those are some, those are some tips that I do stand by, even if my kids don't like it. I can't help it. I know it's best for them. Yeah. I mean, you don't want to ruin the fun, because going out for ice cream is kind of a fun family thing to do together. So, you know, we don't, we don't want to, like, take the edge of that away, and it's still trying to keep it a fun family experience. That is true too. I hear that point Absolutely. So I think, you know, it's just, I think, as a, as a, as a parent, as a human, it's just so hard because there's sugar everywhere, and so just learning how to limit it, and just to pick and choose and make sure when you're having it, it's a quality, worthwhile time and experience. Yeah, that's the issue that it is, that it is everywhere, and kids are just kind of bombarded with sugar, probably at school as well, right, left and center, from even from teachers or birthday parties at school or families bringing in cupcakes or whatever. Again, we're not trying to deprive it's just something has to change, because it's just coming in every hour of the day from a different direction. Yes, it's true. I The older I get. My own mother's advice resonates with me all the time. She used to tell us when we were growing up, I don't want you to have candy, but I'll bake for you whenever you want. You know you want to make if you're going to have a treat, you want to make it special. And baking felt more special. There's more effort involved. It's homemade. So she never deprived us of sugar, but it was what kind of sugar are we having? Yeah, you want, you want good quality junk. You want good charge, good quality treats. If you can, if you can, that's right, yeah, all right. So any other suggestions for parents that are looking for motivation or for tips to think about cutting back on their kids sugar? I like the idea of looking for sugar substitutes, starting with a base, and then adding in, having control, getting regular ice cream or treats, and then just pushing out smaller amounts. If you are going to bake, you can add less sugar than is that is advertising the recipe. Try to not bring it into the house, especially sugary beverages, soda and juices try to make water the default at home, your kids will have plenty of opportunities to get soda and juices in situations which you cannot control. You know, honestly not bringing in the home. I do feel like that's number one, because once it's in the. Home and the kids know it's there. It's really hard to say no. It's hard for me to say no myself, if I know there's, See's Candy at home. Yeah, we made a bunch of Christmas cookies. I put them in the freezer. I should probably throw them away. I know, I know they're in the freezer, and you know, I'll still go in there and take take one every now and then. But by the way, that's another important tip, too. I think so many of us are afraid to throw food away. We feel bad throwing food away. But when it comes to junk, it's okay. Not only do I think it's okay, I think it's the better thing to do, just get rid of it. Throw it away. It's not healthy for you. It's not healthy for anybody. Yeah, it may sound wasteful for me to say that, but I really do believe it, that's not good for anything. Yeah, good point, yeah. So don't bring it to the home. But you meant the other thing I was mentioning, because you did mention sugar substitutes. So sugar substitutes can be a problem. I think you meant, you know, natural sweetness is an okay substitute. So if you're buying a plain yogurt and adding some honey or maple syrup, or mashing up a banana in there, or something that's that's great, but don't fall into the trap of sugar substitutes, aka stevia, monk fruit, sucralose, even a naturally occurring sweeteners, like I mentioned, Stevie and monk fruit, it's not going to solve the problem for a number of different reasons. Number one, we don't really know what these compounds are doing to kids. Number two, it's not going to resolve sweetness and number three, it tastes terrible for most people, so I would much rather make a cookie with less sugar than make a cookie with monk fruit sugar, because it's going to taste better. At least I know what I'm getting. I'm how it's going to affect my body. It's still considered a processed food, even if it's not, yeah, it's absolutely processed. Like, there's this myth that monk fruit is natural, like monk fruit is a chemical derived from the monk fruit in the same way that Sucrose is a sugar derived from sugar cane. It's a chemical that's derived from nature that's then used in food processing. So it's still processed. That's a great point, because it sounds healthier when it's called monk fruit. It sounds like it's a fruit but, but that's really helpful to hear that it's actually a chemical derived from something else. Yeah. I mean, the FDA finally banned red dye. You know, 20 years later, in another 20 years, maybe they'll ban sweeteners, because I'm we're going to find out that they're not good for the body. We already know that they don't have their intended effects and that they do have adverse effects on the body. Why are we doing this? Why are we just not using less sugar? Why are we putting something else into the diet that we don't know what it is or how it's going to affect the body, it just makes no sense to me. I also find that fruit gets a bad reputation. Some people will caution their children from not having too much mangoes or tropical fruits or bananas. They're worried that they're too sugary. Do you think there's truth to that? I mean myself, I know there are calories that you have to consider. But in terms of the fruit itself, I always say to families, I've never seen a child obese from over consumption of fruit. To me, I would not think about fruit as being a bad thing to overly consume. They can't so too much fruit all at once can be an issue because of all the fructose. So ordinarily it's not that much fructose, and the body is able to accommodate. That's how our bodies were designed to accommodate fructose coming in from natural fruit. But if you're going to consume a massive bowl of fruit all at once. It might overwhelm that that normal fructose tolerance, and you can get fructose intolerance, evolving fructose malabsorption, which might not be waking we might get a sore tummy, but we're talking massive amounts all at once. And for kids, that doesn't tend to happen. It's usually spread out throughout the day. And I mean by all by a lot, I mean like several apples all at once, or a massive bowl of of fruit salad or something like that. Well, do you also think, do you think it would be helpful for someone to reach out to a friend and have the buddy system. Hey, let's check in. Let's talk about, you know, how good were you today, about not having too much sugar or have a contest within the family with some sort of prize at the end? I think that could be fun. I think that could be a motive, a potential motivator. Yeah, I think there's definitely potential. You. Uh, power, you know, from, from, from social, social networks and, you know, peer support and stuff like that, absolutely used. We did that a couple of years in a row. We've used at this time of year. We were doing for a while a collective seven day sugar fasts. And we set up, you know, Facebook group, and we had some support in place, and it was, it was quite successful. We didn't, we never, we were looking into, like a way to set that up in a way that it was automated, you know, in an app or something like that. But when we just never, never got that into it, unfortunately. All right. Well, thank you so much. Dr Gorin, you've given me some good tips, a lot to think about, and I really, really, truly appreciate your motivation and your education. Thank you for all that you do. Oh, my pleasure. Glad to be here. Fun to talk to you. Thank you for listening. And I hope you enjoyed this week's episode of Ask Dr Jessica. Also, if you could take a moment and leave a five star review wherever it is you listen to podcasts, I would greatly appreciate it. It really makes a difference to help this podcast grow. You can also follow me on Instagram at ask Dr Jessica, see you next Monday. You.