Ep 172: Should normal "sucking habits" like breast feeding, pacifiers and thumb sucking be stopped? Dr Lisa Bienstock pediatric dentist

Today, Dr Jessica Hochman and Dr. Lisa Bienstock, pediatric dentist, discuss the nuances ] focusing on common concerns parents have regarding their children's "sucking" habits. They explore the importance of understanding non-nutritive sucking habits, for example the implications of breastfeeding, and the role of pacifiers  and thumb sucking on children's oral development. Dr. Bienstock emphasizes the importance of allowing children to stop these habits on their own terms and provides various strategies and tools for parents to support their children in this process. The discussion aims to reassure parents about common concerns regarding their children's oral habits and offers practical advice for fostering healthy dental practices.

Dr Jessica Hochman is a board certified pediatrician, mom to three children, and she is very passionate about the health and well being of children. Most of her educational videos are targeted towards general pediatric topics and presented in an easy to understand manner.

For more content from Dr Jessica Hochman:
Instagram: @AskDrJessica
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Website: www.askdrjessicamd.com

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Do you have a future topic you'd like Dr Jessica Hochman to discuss? Email Dr Jessica Hochman askdrjessicamd@gmail.com.

The information presented in Ask Dr Jessica is for general educational purposes only. She does not diagnose medical conditions or formulate treatment plans for specific individuals. If you have a concern about your child's health, be sure to call your child's health care provider.

Transcript

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Welcome to your child is normal, the podcast where we help you learn more so you can worry less about your children. Now, as a pediatrician, I get questions all the time about normal oral habits like breastfeeding, thumb sucking and pacifier use. So in today's episode, we're joined by the phenomenal Dr Lisa beanstock, a pediatric dentist, who joins us to explain why these behaviors are natural when you might want to think about stopping them and when to simply let your child outgrow them on their own. I feel like there's so much societal pressure to stop these habits. So let's go over what you really need to know, and a big thanks to Dr Lisa beanstalk for joining us today. If you enjoyed this episode, please take a moment and leave a five star review for your child is normal. Now let's get started. Dr Lisa Beanstalk, I'm so happy to have you here. Thank you so much for coming on the podcast. Thank you for having me. I'm honored and excited to be here today. I hear the best things about you. You have such a great reputation as a pediatric dentist. So thank you so much for taking your precious time to be here. You're giving me goosebumps. Thank you. So tell everybody what you do for work. I know pediatric dentists may sound self explanatory, but I'd love for people to know what is your day to day like? What kind of patients and visits Do you see? So I see lots of children from ages zero, because some kids are born with teeth. We call them natal teeth, all the way up to 22 because some kids go away to college, and then they come back and they don't want to go to a general dentist, so I I see them all through college, and then after college, that's when I'm like, Okay, bye, time to find an adult dentist. Because the relationships that we build with these kids and we see them grow is just incredible. And you know, it's hard to say goodbye, and if they don't want to say goodbye, I'm not going to say goodbye. I also see a ton of special needs kids, autistic. I mean, you name it. I see it. I also have four residents right now because I'm Associate Director for NYU Langone pediatric dental residency program. So I'm training for PD, for general dentists to become pediatric dentists. And Phoenix Children's Hospital is one of is the top hospital here in Phoenix, Arizona, and they never had dental on call until my residence. So I'm super, super happy and grateful that we were able to form a collaboration so anybody that goes to the emergency room and at Phoenix Children's Hospital, and if they have a dental emergency, they call my residents and we see them. So my day to day is, is, is a lot as a pediatric dentist, it's a lot of fun. It's really rewarding and and I'm a mother of three myself, so I also not only treat kids, but I live it and breathe it every single day. You are a busy human being, is what I'm hearing. It's a lot of fun. I wouldn't have it any other way, but aren't we all busy? We're all busy, right? It's a good point, right? A good point, I have to say, from hearing you talk about how you see children from zero to 22 there's a lot of parallels with being a pediatric dentist and being a pediatrician, because that's exactly the age range that I specify when people ask me how old my patients are. Isn't it great? Isn't it rewarding? Don't you love it? I mean, we're so lucky to do what we do. I do love it. I agree. I think it's very rare to have to have a job where you get to know people over such a long period of time, and when you get to be there with them through so many changes in life. You know, the conversations that you have with a toddler are very different from when they become a teenager. It's so true and the and the even the music changes. They go from like wanting to listen to Elmo to Taylor Swift, and then also as as practitioners and providers, you and I, I always joke like we are aging with the parents that we see, right? So it's not only it's a collaborative relationship. It's not only, not only treating their kids, but we're also a confidant and a friend to our the patient's parents, right? Because we're with them every step of the way as well. Absolutely, as you said, it's definitely an honor and a privilege, I agree. So I'm so excited to talk with you, because I hear from a lot of parents where there are certain habits that kids pick up that are natural and normal. But parents get mixed messages from their dentists, from social media, from their friends and family, about how concerning these habits are. When they should break the habits, should they be concerned? So I thought it would be really helpful to talk to you an experienced pediatric dentist, and get your thoughts. Great. I'm happy to be here. There are always textbook answers, right where things that we're supposed to be doing, because that's what the textbook says. And a lot of pediatric dentists and even pediatricians will just quote that. But as a mother, your mother were mothers, right? There's there's reality, and there's actually like, what makes sense versus textbook, and it's not always the same, right? I completely agree. Couldn't have said it better myself. So the three habits that I will that I thought we could focus on. So the three main habits I was thinking to talk with you about were breastfeeding, pacifier use and thumb sucking. Okay, so just starting with the big picture with these habits, how concerned should parents be if they don't stop, quote, unquote, on time, not concerned at all. Well, for each one of those things, have different answers, right? Because there's risks and benefits, but they shouldn't. If you look at the big picture, don't be concerned at all. Right, so the big picture for these habits, do you find that most kids tend to outgrow them naturally? Yes, 100% Absolutely, they will outgrow them naturally. And just knowing that in the back of your mind relieves a lot of stress to begin with, right? Definitely, definitely, definitely. And I think that comes a lot like I noticed this with parents as their experience, as they have more children, they are more and more relaxed about these habits. So more evidence as to what you're saying, that with experience, you can relax a little more worry less, which is a good thing, right? Because as a parent, all we do is worry. So it's nice to have one less thing to worry about. This is true. So let's start with breastfeeding. So some parents worry about breastfeeding, because as they go on with breastfeeding, the child's six months, seven months, eight months, their their first teeth pop through, and we're always concerned, because when they're breastfeeding, the milk has sugar in it, and if kids don't brush their teeth well enough, or what I hear a lot is when, when babies are breastfeeding throughout the night, there's concern that they may get cavities. Is that something that you see a lot? Is that something that you worry about? And how can parents address this concern? Okay, so great question, breast milk alone does not cause cavities. So if we exclusively fed, you know, breast fed our children and never introduced food, they would never get cavities, really, yes, but now what happens? It used to be when I had my first child, the recommendations were that you introduced food at, you know, six to eight months now with my with my new baby, that I, well, not so, no, he's almost two. Recently had it was it's four months we started introducing food, right? So when food is introduced, that's when you have bacterial growth and that's when you have risk of getting cavities. So as a breast well as a mother who breastfed both of my children, my natural children, I do have a stepson who I did not breastfeed, because that would just be weird, because he was my stepson, but my natural children, that I did have, that I do have, I breastfed them both for 13 months, and food was introduced. But what I always recommend is, after they eat their food, brush their teeth, and then if you're breastfeeding throughout the night, and if you need to do that, yes, it's considered a high risk behavior, but we have to do what we have to do to survive and to sleep and to do what we need to do. And if the bacteria, source of the actual food, is removed, and then you breastfeed, it seems to be that there's less of a risk of getting cavities. That's so interesting. So I was always taught that the sugar from breast milk may lead to teeth decay, but what you're saying makes sense, that you can't get that decay unless there's bacteria present, correct and the bacteria doesn't grow, because breast milk is natural, so there's it's not going to promote bacterial growth. It's when you introduce other foods, any food that's when you get back to a growth because it's not a natural, actual substance from your own body. I was always taught that with the bottles, the bottles are a big risk factor for babies getting cavities because of the milk around the teeth. So if I understand what you're saying correctly, breastfeeding, in your experience, you don't notice cavities from pure breastfeeding, so it's you can't from pure breastfeeding. You do not notice cavities. That is correct. It's when you introduce foods where you get bacterial growth, and then you get cavities. And then when you don't brush that that food away, or you don't wipe the mouth out, and you so you feed your child dinner, and then you breastfeed throughout the night, and you don't brush the child's teeth or wipe anything out, you're going to get bacterial growth. And then you're gonna you're going to get cavities. Cavities are the most common childhood disease, and this is one of the reasons why, right? So it's prolonged exposure to that bacteria growth, that bacterial growth, that causes the cavities. That is so fascinating. Okay, so if I understand we're trying to say you would not recommend stopping breastfeeding for fear of cavities. Rather, you would say, make sure and brush your teeth before going to sleep. Exactly, out of trouble, exactly. Just brush your baby's teeth. Or if they don't have teeth, wipe out. You know, just wipe the mouth out if they're eating food, but typically, well, now the recommendations, right? Am I wrong? Dr Jessica, the recommendations for food is four months now, to introduce any time between four to six months, right? So some kids don't have teeth at four months. So you don't need to worry. You don't really need to wipe out the mouth. Yet, it's when they start to get teeth. When you. Really want to start wiping it out. Okay? And this is a common question I get, and you may not have a great answer, but common question I hear is, how do you properly brush the teeth when they first appear? Do you recommend any kind of a wipe? Does it matter a toothbrush? What's your what do you say to patients when they ask whatever? Do the best you can with whatever you have. That's what I say. But ideally, you would use it. You would use a toothbrush. You would use a toothbrush and just to get the bristles in there, and to get the bristles along the gum line and to wipe off the plaque or anything that's that happens to be in there. And it's multifactorial, right? So it's not just food that causes cavities. There's a lot of other factors, right? It's, it's oral hygiene, which we're talking about, is the diet, which we're talking about, and then it's a genetic factor, and it's not really genetic per se. You know, it's not like I have brown eyes and brown hair, so I'm going to get cavities. And it's not like that. It's more the bacterial growth, the bacteria that you have. So it's called vertical transmission. So I always say to parents, try to avoid sharing if you have had a lot of cavities, for example, a lot of moms and parents go spoonful for me, spoonful for you. But if you've had a lot of history of cavities in your mouth in the past, then you have that bacteria that causes the cavities, and you're actually giving it to your child, and that's what we call vertical transmission that is fascinating. Okay, so that's really helpful to know. Because myself, I've had cavities, so I'm you're giving me a lot to think about. Well, your kids are older now, so I'm sure they're fine, right? Yes, yes. Okay, those are really helpful pointers. So from your perspective, moms can breastfeed and you're not so concerned about cavity formation. Just make sure to brush your teeth. Make sure you brush them, get get those germs out of there, for sure. Now, what about pacifiers? Because a lot of parents have mixed messages when it comes to pacifiers and how harmful it is to oral development, and a lot of parents are are unclear. When is the best time to stop using a pacifier. So there's a textbook age that I'm going to tell you, which is three. And then there's the actual real age where they don't need the pacifier for non nutritive sucking anymore. They don't need it, and where they're old enough that they don't need it, but they're young enough they're not going to remember, and that magic age is really 18 months. 18 months is the magic age to get rid of the pacifier. Okay, okay. And then, do you have any advice on how to do it? There's lots of ways to do it. I like cold turkey. It's going to be difficult for the first two nights. And I always say, if you see them finding their thumb, give them back the pacifier, because it's a lot easier to take away the pacifier than the thumb. But 18 months seems to be that magic age, and you could cut it and then it doesn't work anymore. I mean, there's so many things, but at 18 months, they're young enough where they're not going to know or remember. So I would just do cold turkey. You know, my daughter slept with a pacifier in each hand and one in her mouth. It was like, crack to her, right? Like, obsessed with it. And I was so I was like, we can't get rid of it. We can't get rid of it, right? I'm like, wearing my mom hat. I'm like, What is she gonna do? She needs it. And my husband's like, what do you tell your patients? I'm like, I tell my patients 18 months it's gone. He's like, okay, she's 18 months today. It's gone, and he literally got rid of them all, and we had, like, two rough nights, and then she was fine. It's true that as a parent, I think we anticipate the worst, especially if your child's really attached to it, but I tend to feel like if you give your kids the benefit of the doubt that they're resilient, that they can get through it, because they can, when you go for it and you actually make the decision to take it away. It's a lot easier than we anticipate 100% now, do you in terms of, like, dental implications, do you feel like pacifiers can harm the palette? That's something that I hear a lot from dentists, that it might push on the palette and potentially have long, lasting impacts. Yeah. So you know the textbook age is three, and the reason why is because the palette is still malleable by three, so it tends to go back, so back to what it should be. If you get rid of the pacifier before age three, right? But if you continue the pacifier after age three, the palette does form around it, and you end up with that open bite, and then you get a tongue thrust, and then the child is probably going to end up with a constricted palette and need a paddle expander when they're older. And which can you know the constricted palette can be fixed later with orthodontics, like a with a paddle expander orthodontics, but if you want to avoid that, then yes, it's important to get rid of the pacifier before age three for that reason. And what about the teeth? Because sometimes kids, I notice, have a pacifier. Look. You can tell when they Yeah, you can tell, like, the front two teeth come forward a little bit. Well, I'm curious, from your perspective, what happens to the teeth, when the, when the permanent teeth come in, does it resolve on its own? Well, it depends when you get rid of it. So if, if the, if you get rid of the pacifier. Or three, it resolves on its own. It typically self corrects, and it's fine if you wait and the pacifier is always in the mouth, because it's not the the the strength of the sucking that causes the teeth to form around the pacifier. It's the duration of time that the pacifier is in the mouth. So if that pacifier is in the mouth all the time. And then the adult, you know, I hope that they're not on the pacifier. At five, the adult teeth start to come in around six to eight years old, right? So if, hopefully that pacifier is gone, and typically it is gone around before kindergarten, if they're that obsessed with it, it seems to be that's the natural age. But by then, their palate is constricted, and the teeth are going to come in and look, they'll look a little normal in the front, but in the back, it's going to be a little constricted. They're going to end up with a cross bite, most likely, and need a palette spanner. We also develop a tongue thrust, because the teeth are open from the from the palate, right from the from the pacifier. It keeps the the teeth open, and then they and then the tongue thrust that way, and that keeps it open. So some kids, you take away the pacifier, and their bite is still open, and they have a tongue thrust. That tongue thrust is going to keep that bite open no matter what you do, and then you're going to definitely need some orthodontics. That's interesting, because I have noticed kids that have tongue thrust, or parents that voice concerns about tongue thrust, and I never tied the two together that I never thought about asking the parents if it was related to pacifier use, or how long was your child on the pacifier. And then what you can do is you can train the tongue to stay back with certain appliances. Out of curiosity, does a tongue thrust lead to drooling? Because I have, I have had patients that are three years old and they're drooling, and I wonder if that's a reason why, um, I don't know if it's like directly correlated to drooling the drilling is usually the masseter muscles and and, you know, the big layers, Auris and the muscles of the face that tend to not be formed. I don't want to say formed as well, but not as strong. I should say, because what happens is, we give our kids all these foods, like the purees and the packets, right? And they don't really learn to chew and eat. And I always say to parents, it's really important that you give your kids crunchy, difficult foods to eat to help form those muscles. Because, of course, kids love to eat those packets. It's so much easier. They don't have to work as hard, right? You don't have to work as hard when you're chewing up a granola bar or you're chewing something hard, right? A lot of kids don't want to eat that stuff because it's hard. It takes more work to eat, but then what ends up happening is their muscles aren't as strong, and then you end up with drooling and things like that. That makes so much sense. That's such great advice, because I'm thinking about it. If you want to increase your strength and get your muscles stronger, you have to work at them. So it makes sense that that would apply to to chewing, that you want to make sure you're chewing something that's not just soft and moving your muscles from side to side, right, like a lot of us just chew on one side, because we never learn how to properly chew. Because we're giving, we're given purees as children and as toddlers, right? So we're just used to sucking it down. Okay, this is great. Okay, so now moving on to I think what can be a trickier topic for parents to figure out how to stop this habit, but that's thumb sucking, because, as my mom always says, the pacifier, it's an easy problem, more or less, to stop if you really want to, because you can just take it away where the thumb you can't take it away. A child always has it with them. So I'm just curious, first of all, big picture, do you feel strongly about when kids should stop thumb sucking? Is it bad for the teeth. No. Okay, so as long as you know your child is going to need some sort of orthodontics in the future, most likely, then it's fine. I have to admit, I was a thumb sucker. I sucked my thumb until I was almost six years old, right? And I had a lot of orthodontics. And now I'm okay, but I'm okay. I always say to parents, it's harder to fix things psychologically than it is the teeth. If your child needs their thumb, let them have their thumb. It's okay. They're not going to get married. Sucking their thumb, right? By the way, I think I stopped sucking my thumb around the same time, about six years old, right? Because you get to kindergarten and nobody else is doing and you don't want to do it. And again, like your first question, initially, it just gradually will stop on its own, because the child is going to want to do to stop it, the child is going to want to stop on on her own, his or her own. Anyway, I remember reading, I'm not sure where I read this from, but I definitely this statistic stuck out in my head, because I think it's so interesting that by the time kids get to kindergarten, 95% will stop on their own without a parent intervening. And they say that's because kids at that age start to become more socially aware. They care what their peers think about them, and they don't want to look like a baby, right? So they'll stop on their own, or they'll be more cognizant. Going to pull the thumb from their mouth, especially during the daytime. I say that because parents, we can stress out about when they're going to stop and they'll just do it on their own. The odds are they're just going to do it all right. So lay off your kids, like, let them do it. It's okay. It's okay. That's so nice to hear it from a dentist. Yes, of course. Like I said, there are textbook answers. The textbook answer is yes, it'll affect the palate and constrict the palate, and then you have a tongue thrust, and then there's germs, and then you're going to get more cavities. But the reality of it is, is you're not going to you're not going to make your child stop sucking their thumb. They're going to want to do it on their own when they're ready to do it, we have tools to help them do it. Right? There's the Mavala stop, which is the stuff that doesn't taste good. But as a parent, I wouldn't push that on my child. I would wait until my child comes to me and says, You know what, it's always good to have conversations with your child about it, right? If it's bothering you. As a parent, you can say, you know it's really important you wash your hands because of the germs that you're getting in your mouth and hand, foot and mouth when they're toddlers and things like that. You can have this conversation. Conversations, but I wouldn't put any unnecessary stress or pressure on it until they're actually ready, right? They have to be ready to do it. That's a perfect reminder, I think, because a lot of parents, when I ask them, what bothers them about their child sucking their thumb, they're concerned about the germs or potentially getting sick more often because they suck their thumb. So that's so true. You can have a conversation with your kids, have them wash their hands more, pay attention to their hygiene, but then they can still suck their thumb, right? And plant the seed. You know, I don't suck my thumb. I always say to some of the kids when they come to see me, if the mom is like, can you try to help me get her to stop sucking her thumb? I'll say, you know, who's your favorite princess? And they'll say Elsa. And I'll say, Well, you know, Elsa doesn't suck her thumb, so if you want to be a princess like Elsa, let's try to stop and, you know, I'll give you a reward. And you can always do a reward chart, or any of those things, but you're never going to make them do it. They have to want to do it, and that's the key. I love it, some nice, positive encouragement. But you're not forcing them. You're not making them it's on their own terms, right? Because, like you said, 95% of the time they'll stop on their own by kindergarten. Amazing. Okay? And just again, from your perspective as a pediatric dentist, not too harmful in terms of what you see with kids that suck their thumbs, no, no, because we can fix it. It's okay. You can always fix it, right? But it's harder to fix things psychologically. I always say, you know, sometimes it becomes such a major issue, and at home where, like, everybody's freaking out about it, and the dad and the mom, they won't lay off the kid, and then they get, like, deep down psychological insecurities, and that's the last thing you want to do to your child, right? I mean, as parents, already, we're doing the best we can, trying to to not cause psychological issues for our children, right? So, you know, let them, let them do it on their own, and don't make a big deal about it. I have to say my, one of my kids was very attached to her thumb, and it was so helpful when she would tantrum, so helpful. We knew it as parents. She knew it. She was when she would get upset and worked up, she would just pop that thumb in her mouth. It immediately worked. So I was really slow to have her to encourage her to stop, because honestly, it was a huge help in my family. So when did she finally stop? So okay, before kindergarten, or right around kindergarten, she actually, as you pointed out, she let us know that she wanted to stop and she couldn't. She didn't know how, when she was asking for help. So I know you had mentioned, what did you mention the cream there's the Mavala stop, which is, like that bad tasting stuff you paint on the thumb. I mean, there's so many tools I can keep going, but go ahead, I want to hear the story. Yeah. So we ended up using something called the T guard, which worked really well. We watched the commercial for we went on YouTube, and we watched a kid do a testimonial showing how they use the tea guard. She watched it. She wasn't ready at first, and then I think a couple weeks later, she came to us and she said, now I'm ready. I want to get the tea guard. And that was how it works, is it's a plastic covering with little holes on the side so it can breathe, and a band around the wrist that keeps it there. And there's different colors. So it makes it a little fun and exciting for the kids, because they can change up the color of their wrists their wristband every day. So she watched the commercial. She wasn't interested yet, but then, when we finally did, use the T guard, they give you, I think, 42 days worth of of wristbands. You know, they give you like, six weeks or so, because they say it takes that long to break a habit, and she used it for less than two days, and she said, I'm ready to stop. I'm done. I've stopped the habit. So we had a great experience with thumb sucking overall, because it was very helpful for her in her childhood. And then when it came time to stopping, and she was really ready, using the tea guard, it didn't take very long see how positive that is. That's amazing. I love that. So yeah, all your listeners like see that. What a positive, wonderful and then she was probably really proud of herself, right? And that built more self confidence, because look at what she did on her own, and that's amazing. She was really proud of herself, it's true. And I I couldn't believe when she said she was ready. I said that. It. It's only been two days. You've only used two wristbands. That's it. Like we have 42 days worth of wristbands, and we're done. And she she could tell she was done, that she had broken the habit. So yes, I do think that was the best solution for our family. That worked out great. Rather than fighting with her about it and coming to a crossroads and making her feel pressured, she came to it on her own terms, on her own time. And it worked out, I love it. I love it. So now they have something like the tea guard that you mentioned. It's called the thumb Buster, and you can get on Amazon, and it doesn't look as archaic as the tea guard looks, but because it's like spandex type material, and it comes in, like, blue and green and pink and all different colors and and so I show it to kids, and there's, like, some kids wearing them on both arms, and they're smiling like this. And like, I'm like, all the cool kids are wearing these now. So then some of them want that, right? And then, and then that helps them stop as well. So yeah, there's so many tools out there. So can we quickly list them, just so for people listening, that they know what their options are, that they can show them to their kids. So we talked about the tea guard. You talked about the thumb Buster, or the buster. They might have reinvented themselves as a thumb stir. It was either the thumb store, the thumb Buster could be two different companies, but it's the same type of idea. There's the Mavala stop, which is like the bad tasting nail polish that you that you paint on. And then there's tools that, as a pediatric dentist, that we can put in the mouth, like a tongue crib, where every time they put their thumb in the mouth, it's it's cemented in, and it kind of looks like, looks like bars. And so every time the thumb goes in, it reminds them to take it out. And you can't really see it. When they smile, they have to, like, open and, like, put their head back so you can see it. So there's a tongue crib. There's a tongue rake, you know, for kids that that really can't stop, that really want to stop, it actually has spikes, like, you cut the crib so it's there. It's, like, spiky, so it kind of hurts, which I don't love that one, but some, some parents and some kids actually really want that one. So there's another one that you could use. So, yeah, there's a lot, there's a lot of stuff out there. It's nice to hear that there's so many options. Yeah, I'm thinking back when I sucked my thumb, my parents gently encouraged me to stop, and they bought that bitter tasting paint to put on my thumb, and I would just go in the bathroom and just clean it off and wash it off. I wonder I was personally not ready to stop sucking my thumb when they gave me that so where there's a will, there's a way, so I think exactly, much better to wait till your child is ready on their own terms. That's right. Otherwise, you're just going to take it off. Right? If you give your kid a thumb Buster, or thumbs or, you know, or any of that, they're just going to take it off or they're going to wash it off because they don't want to do it. They have to want to do it right. I feel like a lot of parents get input from society or their family that it's best to stop sooner. So it's so nice to hear from you a pediatric dentist who sees it all, sees all the teeth problems that are out there that exist, that it is okay, that it's not a problem. At the end of the day, your kids will stop when they're ready, and they will be just fine, I promise. Well, thank you so much for this. Any more words of wisdom or final advice that you'd like to share with the audience? No, this has been so much fun, and I hope that I've helped in some way, shape or form, because that's what we're here for, right? And help alleviate any any, any bad advice you guys are getting. Thank you so much. And you know, my my favorite thing to do when giving information to people, if I can re if I can help reassure them, help them worry less by giving them good quality information. I feel like that. That's the best feeling I can have. So thank you for helping me do that to whoever's listening and needed to hear some reassurance. Oh, well, thank you. Thank you for having me. Oh, and tell people. Tell people, where can they find you and if they happen to be living in the Phoenix area. So I have two practices. I have one in Scottsdale on 92nd and Shea called Ironwood Pediatric Dentistry, and I have another one on 20th Street and Camelback. That's two zero Street in Camelback, called the kids dental office of Phoenix and orthodontics. And then if you happen to go to children's, you'll probably see me or one of my residents there if you have any dental trauma, and you can also follow me on Instagram. It's just my name, Lisa beanstock, and then my Tiktok is Dr B, that's me. Fantastic. Thank you so so much. Thank you for listening, and I hope you enjoyed this week's episode of your child is normal. Also, if you could take a moment and leave a five star review, wherever it is you listen to podcasts, I would greatly appreciate it. It It really makes a difference to help this podcast grow. You can also follow me on Instagram at ask Dr Jessica, see you next Monday.