Ep 174: Herbal Medicine for Kids, the truth about what works? A Conversation with Tasha Rose

Episode 174 with Herbalist Tasha Rose and talk herbal medicine! We discuss common misconceptions, what herbs may be effective herbs for various ailments, and we also discuss some of the medical literature on natural remedies.

To learn more about Tasha Rose, here is her website:

Tasha's favorite place to buy herbs: Oshala Farm

Here are links to some published medical studies reviewing herbal medicine.

Peppermint and Irritable Bowel Syndrome (IBS): "Peppermint oil for the treatment of irritable bowel syndrome: a systematic review and meta-analysis. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/24100754/ 

The study found that small-intestinal-release peppermint oil significantly reduced abdominal pain, discomfort, and IBS severity. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/31470006/

Lavender and Anxiety:

 "Effects of lavender on anxiety: A systematic review and meta-analysis."

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/31655395/

Ginger and Digestive Health:

 Ginger Benefits"  According to Johns Hopkins Medicine, ginger aids digestion by relieving discomfort from bloating and gas.​

https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/health/wellness-and-prevention/ginger-benefits

"Effect of Ginger on Inflammatory Diseases"

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9654013/ 

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7019938/

 Elderberry Extract Reduces Duration of Cold Symptoms 

A study found that those who took elderberry experienced relief about four days earlier than those who took a placebo.

Does Elderberry Really Help with Cold and Flu symptoms This article reviews studies on elderberry & found some studies show significant benefits, others find minimal effects, at reducing cold symptoms

Dr Jessica Hochman is a board certified pediatrician, mom to three children, and she is very passionate about the health and well being of children. Most of her educational videos are targeted towards general pediatric topics and presented in an easy to understand manner.

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Instagram: @AskDrJessica
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Website: www.askdrjessicamd.com

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Do you have a future topic you'd like Dr Jessica Hochman to discuss? Email Dr Jessica Hochman askdrjessicamd@gmail.com.

The information presented in Ask Dr Jessica is for general educational purposes only. She does not diagnose medical conditions or formulate treatment plans for specific individuals. If you have a concern about your child's health, be sure to call your child's health care provider.

Transcript

Unknown: 0:00

Hi everybody. Welcome back to your child is normal. Today we're exploring a topic that sparks a lot of curiosity, herbal medicine. There's a common misconception that herbal remedies just aren't effective, or that they lack scientific backing. However, there are many herbs that have real research backed benefits, even for children. To talk about this, I'm joined by Tasha rose, an expert in herbal remedies and natural healing, and in this episode, we're going to examine the more well known herbs, like elderberry, peppermint, lavender and chamomile, among others, and we're going to explore what the research says about their benefits for children. And for those interested, I've also linked relevant studies in the show notes so you can review the evidence for yourself. Now, whether you're an herbal medicine skeptic, an herbal medicine enthusiast, or somewhere in between. I really hope this episode gives a balanced perspective on how herbs can complement conventional pediatric care and hopefully add more options to your child's wellness toolkit. And lastly, before we get started, please consider leaving a five star review wherever it is you listen to your child is normal, Your feedback helps us reach more listeners, which allows this podcast to grow now, let's begin. Tasha rose, thank you so much for being here. I'm so excited to talk to you. I love the work that you do, and I'm so excited to share your work and your story with my audience. So first, can you tell everybody a bit about your background and how you became interested in herbal medicine? Absolutely thanks for having me, Jessica, I am happy to be here too and spread my love of plants. I am a lifelong plant lover. I have been really connected to the plant world since I can remember my mom had a garden growing up. I loved playing in it. I can remember the plants and the flowers in many different homes that I've lived in around the country, and I'm also a trained herbalist. And when I became pregnant with my first, I just knew that I wanted to bring herbs to more people. And so that was when I founded my company, and I've been on a real journey since then, with the plants that just keeps going deeper. How does one become a trained herbalist? Can you tell me? What was that process like? Yeah, so I did a two year advanced apprenticeship. We studied whole different types of plants. The focus was mostly on Western herbalism, but we also looked at herbs in Ayurveda and traditional Chinese medicine and and I traveled to Costa Rica as well to study some of the tropical plants there. I then, after those two years, mentored incoming apprentices for the next two years, and that was basically all before I had my my kids. That's amazing. I'm sure you learned a lot. I did, for sure, and I'm still learning a lot. You know, there's so many plants that I feel like I don't know anything about and want to get to know, but there's definitely a lot of plants that are dear friends, that I have worked with a lot. What I find so interesting about herbal medicine is that it's been used for 1000s of years with humans. Yes, it is. It's the original medicine. You know, I mean, even so many of our modern day pharmaceuticals are derived from plants, like aspirin comes from the bark of a white willow tree. You know, that's just one example. And I'm not like anti pharmaceuticals, but I really do believe that, like nature and God intended to put all the different plant constituents together in a plant. And I'm a big proponent of using the whole plant myself. It's so interesting. I mean, I think it's it should be easier to bridge the world of traditional medicine and homeopathic or herbal medicine, and I think we're doing that more and more. But I'm excited to talk to you because there, I think a lot of traditional Western medicine enthusiasts can kind of poo, poo herbal medicine that it doesn't really work. And so I wanted to talk with you about these common misconceptions, and maybe bring to light some of the herbs that really had been found to be effective with kids, just so parents have these tools in their arsenal, and they can know what to use when, or what to consider when and where to find quality herbs. So I'm looking forward to learning from you. Yeah, I was just gonna say that my mission is really to empower and educate moms out there so that they are feeling prepared when the inevitable sniffles or stresses of life show up. Because, like I said, they are inevitable, and it's really vital for kids to get sick. You know, each each time they get sick, their immune system is becoming more intelligent and more more understanding of how the world works and what they need to do so that they can really grow into a resilient, vibrant, healthy adult one day. I agree with you. I do feel like the more they're exposed to, the stronger they get, and also it's helpful to know how to make them feel better when they're not feeling well. So let's talk about some of these herbs. And before we get to that, before we talk about some of the herbs that might help kids with specific ailments, what are some common myths about herbs? That you wish were demystified. What are the most common misconceptions about herbal medicine that you find? I think just speaking kind of in general terms, is that either they don't work or they're not safe. I think those are the two biggest misconceptions. And yes, and so and so. From your experience, you found that there are, there are many herbs that are safe, and there are many herbs that are effective, absolutely yes. And it is true though. I mean, everything can have side effects. So I do want to put it out there that certain herbs, specifically, if taken too much or the wrong way, can cause harm. But that's true for anything out there. It's just really about being educated for sure. You know, there's people can be allergic to all different things, and the same can be said for plants. You know, one of my favorite plants is nettles. It's a nourishing herb. They're the safest class of herbs. They're considered food because of their high vitamin and mineral content. And my sister is allergic to it. You know, like she gets itchy if she if she drinks it. I drank it every day for the last 10 years. And like, am in love with it. And like, talk about it to everybody that she's allergic to it. So that's not the plan for her. The common example in medical school, they used to talk about a lot when referring to potential harm from herbs was licorice roots. They used to always talk about how if you have too much licorice, it can actually affect your blood pressure, so I always found that interesting. Yeah, that's another one that I am getting to know a lot better. We've used it a lot this winter. It's in every immune supporting tea that I make for my family the second like I hear a kid sneezing or sniffling, yes, and to be clear, in the appropriate small amounts, it is very, very safe and tastes good and smells good, especially for my daughter, licorice is her, is her favorite, yeah, and like anything, if you're using too much of it, too much of anything, is not a good thing. Absolutely, absolutely. And I also say my feeling with herbs, as long as it's not found to be harmful. If somebody enjoys it, or they feel like they're feeling better from taking that herb, then I think it's a good thing, because the placebo effect is very real, especially with kids. I find just the act of giving them something, doing something for them makes them feel better. So in that sense, I am very much a fan, even if there's not robust studies around certain herbs, which we'll get into. What I would love to do is now go through with you some of the common questions that I get from parents about whether or not herbs may be helpful in certain situations. The first that comes up a lot is the common cold. What do you recommend for kids if they have common cold symptoms? You know the common cold is common, and there's nothing that's going to prevent it that I found. But my favorite thing is elderberry, if taken within the first day or two of those sniffles or sneezing or scratchy throat showing up, there is actually a lot of literature on elderberry that shows that it stops the viral replication. You can feel better up to four days faster, and it has been shown time and again in my home to work. Yeah. So the what studies have shown about elderberry, just to reinforce what you're saying, is that it's been shown to not prevent colds, but it may shorten the duration. It may lessen the symptoms if you take it soon enough. Yes, yeah, symptoms are oftentimes relieved up to four days faster, which is, you know, for a kid, and if you're a parent with a kid home sick, like, if your kid can go back to school four days faster and be feeling better four days faster. Like, that's huge. That's, that's a lot of time, absolutely, absolutely. Is there anything that parents should be concerned about with elderberry, for example, is there, is there a wrong way to take it? Can they take it too much or improperly? You know, is there anything that you want parents to know about taking elderberry? And most of the studies that were done is typically on adults, and it's 15 milliliters, four times a day, and the dosing on our bottles for children is, you know, weight or age dependent, and it's less than that. So we just say four times a day through the duration of symptoms, typically, that's, you know, four or five days that they're using it and you're good. I don't recommend personally taking it every day. I know that some people do, but I'm of the belief that elderberry is an immune stimulant and it's turning on the immune system, and it's kind of like getting everything ready and active to fight. I prefer adaptogens to really build that resilience in the body. If you want to take something on the daily to really build the immune system rather than have it turned on and ready to go. Now, what about the formulation of taking elderberry? So for example, if you see elderberry and you grow it, if someone were to grow elderberry and just pick it off a bush, would that be the right way to take it? How are you preparing elderberry in a way that's helpful for cold? For cold? Symptoms? That's a great question. So the elder berries, actually, if you eat them raw, especially if you eat a lot of them, you are going to get an upset stomach. And they are a mild poison or toxin. So they always need to be cooked or extracted in water. So we simmer them down in a decoction of water, and then they're not great tasting. They're a little tart, a little bitter. So we add a local raw honey, and we add apple cider vinegar, and we also have cloves and ginger in ours as well. Thank you for saying that, because I think that can be confusing for people that you don't want to eat actual elderberries. You want to make sure you're eating it in the form of an extract or a syrup, and that's the safest way to take it. Yes, yeah, definitely. I had a friend call me one I'm who had elderberry bushes in the back of her yard, and she's like, my son ate the elderberries and his stomach is hurting. Like, do I need to call poison control? I'm like, he'll probably be fine, but if you want to be on the safe side, like go to the doctor. He was fine, but yeah, your stomach's not going to feel good. Now, what about kids that have upset stomachs? There's quite a few herbs that have been shown to be helpful for indigestion, for stomach upset. Do you have any favorite go tos, and when do you recommend them, so for stomach, indigestion, anything like that, ginger and mint are my two favorites. They're herbs and plants that everyone is familiar with. Think of them as food as medicine. They both are classified as carminatives, which help to relieve gas in the body. So think burping or farting is like getting rid of that extra gas in the body. They're both permitted, but peppermint is more of a cooling herb, and ginger is more of a warming, warming herb. Think of it and like that spicy taste that we all know, and really it's just what the taste preference is of your child. They're both really wonderful for supporting any sort of indigestion. Ginger is also very anti inflammatory, antiviral, antibacterial. There's a lot of actions that it has on the body, and it's been shown to be safe and effective at supporting kids if they're having vomiting or nausea as well, too. And then for peppermint, like I said, it's carbonative. It's nice and cooling. It also is helpful for nausea and especially morning sickness for women, and it's been shown to have really multiple actions that it can support the body with. It relaxes the smooth muscle of the intestines, like the stomach and the small intestine, and it supports balancing abdominal pain. It's also antimicrobial and anti inflammatory. And another thing that peppermint is helpful with, and that can sometimes tie into digestive distress, is that it really can support the balancing of our emotions. And a lot of times, our emotions can be tied to what's happening in our digestion so fascinating, and it makes so much sense. I remember very distinctly the first book I read where I became interested in plants as medicine, and that was as a teenager, Andrew Weil. I don't know if you're familiar with him, but he's an MD, and he's very interested in herbal medicine, and he had a whole section in his book, this is in the 1990s about ginger and its anti inflammatory properties and how it helps with digestion. It's so fascinating to me that we can, we can meld these worlds, and we can use something like something that's grown from the earth, something that really has very few side effects, to help with very common issues like indigestion, like inflammation. So I think about that every time I go to a sushi restaurant, I make sure to finish all the all the ginger next to me, thinking it could be helping me feel like everything we need to heal is given to us. Yeah, it's all around us in the world. Yeah, certainly there's a lot, there's a lot out there that's that's provided by by nature, absolutely, and peppermint oil, what's interesting is, I see it used a lot for really common, often debilitating stomach issues like IBS, where, where one can experience a lot of loading abdominal discomfort. And it's been shown that peppermint oil really makes a difference. And as you pointed out, they think the reason why it helps is it relaxes the gastrointestinal muscles, reduces spasms. And so I love that that's been found to be helpful, because they're really in my from what I understand, there are very minimal side effects to peppermint oil. Yeah, yeah. Peppermint is wonderful. Full a nice some of my favorite ways to use it are just to make a simple tea. You know, like a fresh or dried peppermint tea is lovely, especially with a little honey added. And also you could use like a peppermint essential oil diluted and just rub it onto the stomach, or get a peppermint essential oil roller and rub it onto the abdomen. That's really nice if you're feeling gassy or bloated, or just, you know, having some digestive issues after eating sounds lovely. Now, there's another really common pediatric medical issue that comes up a lot with parents where they're wondering if herbs have a benefit, and that is infant colic. So when babies are born and they're a couple of weeks old, typically, and they start to cry a lot, often, two, three hours a day, and parents aren't sure how to help them most effectively, there have been some herbs that have been shown to have some benefit. Can you describe what some of those herbs may be, and what you found in your experience? Yeah, the first one that comes to mind is chamomile. Chamomile has a long history of being a plant with a really gentle and soothing action on our body and also our energy, especially the digestive system and the nervous system, and it really just has this overall calming energy. And because of this, it's one of the most widely recommended herbs or plants for children and babies. And even if you look at the plant itself, the leaf and the stem and the flower, they're very delicate. And the flower is these white petals with a yellow center, and yellow is the color that's associated with our solar plexus, which is the area of the body that governs our digestion. And so chamomile has been studied, and it's been safely and effectively used for the treatment of colic and diarrhea in infant babies. And it's also been studied and shown that when taken orally, it supports any sort of gastrointestinal conditions, and you can also use it topically as a vulnerary or a wound healer, a wound healer, wow, that's so interesting. That's really interesting. I know myself I love chamomile tea, so I'm not sure how much it actually is working, but I know that I feel better after having it. Yeah, and kind of similar to what I mentioned with peppermint, like chamomile, also we see this connection between emotions and the digestion. Our digestive system and chamomile is right there with peppermint, kind of bridging that connection between the two. Fantastic, fantastic. Now, another common herb that gets a lot of attention is lavender. You know, I have to be honest myself, I'm a fan of lavender. I've even been to the lavender festival in Ojai, California, which is fantastic. If you're interested in herbs, and you've never been, you should definitely check it out one year. But tell me about lavender. Where do you find a helpful role for health and lavender? So I love to use lavender, like, as aromatherapy. I don't like just personally, I don't love the taste of, like, drinking the tea. I'm not huge on, like floral teas. It has can be used as a tea. But typically, I think when people think of lavender, they're thinking of the scent in the aroma therapy or the essential oil. There is a study that looks at using lavender essential oil like inhaling it for kids before they were having a tooth extracted, you know, and the anxiety that comes with having this dental surgery, and the group that inhaled the lavender had significantly lower anxiety and pain scores after the tooth extraction versus the people that didn't inhale the lavender. I love that. That's so interesting and so helpful, isn't that amazing? And they also showed significantly lower levels of blood pressure and a significant pulse rate drop after the inhalation. And the lavender group and the control group that wasn't using the lavender had a statistically significant increase in heart rate after the anesthesia and after the surgery. So that's just like, really wild to think. Because oftentimes we just think like, Oh, something smells nice, but like, really smell has a major and powerful and potent effect on our body and these physiological processes that are happening inside our body, yes, and I feel like, as I was mentioning the beginning, if it, if it doesn't hurt, why not try it? I know myself. I love anything that might help assist with going to sleep, feeling more relaxed, and especially I like, I do like the smell of lavender. I grew with you. I don't really like it in my I don't care for it in my ice cream or my teas, but I do like the smell of it. So why not? Why not try it? Why not add it into your you? Daily routine, absolutely, yeah, we actually just brought back our deep sleep spray today in stock, which uses lavender and chamomile, two of the herbs we've talked about, and vetiver root. And just It smells amazing. It's so good. Like, if you just spray it over your pillow before you get in bed, it's lovely, especially, you know, I also like recommending some lavender for kids that might have mild anxiety, because it just seems so, so simple. So, you know, potentially effective for kids. And so that's just something to think about for parents out there where they want to think of a simple trick to try if they want to help their kids relax. Yeah, I will say one thing, if you're using essential oils, they are very potent and very strong. So a tiny bit goes a long way. If you're a parent out there and you're like, just starting to use essential oils, put one drop in your hand, mix it with some olive oil, and just rub your hands together and then let your child, like, smell your hands. It really is that simple, but make sure you're diluting the oil, the essential oil, with a carrier oil, and it can be as simple as olive oil or whatever you have in the kitchen. That's a great reminder, a great recommendation. Are there any other herbs that you'd like to mention that may be particularly helpful for parents in helping kids with common ailments. You know, we were just talking about anxiety. I feel like that is that's a thing with so many people and children today, we mentioned chamomile, we mentioned lavender, but I have a few others that I really love. One is oat straw, one is lemon balm, and one is Tulsi, and they're all pretty common plants. They're not that hard to find. Lemon balm, I feel like a lot of people have heard of. Again, it's soothing to the nervous system and the digestive system, but it is also a really wonderful antiviral and supportive of the immune and respiratory system, and it's gentle. It's in the mint family. It has like a nice, mild flavor. Oat straw is a nourishing herb. It is one of my ultimate favorites, after nettles. Like I mentioned before, nourishing herbs are this considered the safest class of herbs and considered food because of their bio available vitamin and mineral content. Oat straw is the plant that we get our get our oats from, and it's really wonderful for the nervous system. It's high in B vitamins, especially, which really just support our mood. And the taste is really mild and sweet. So it's just, it's not one that, like kids are going to be put off of the colors, kind of this light golden yellow color. It's not like a weird green or brown color like, you know, when you're making the tea. So that's a really wonderful one that I feel like, you know, there's a study that shows the nutrient density of our food has really declined in the last half century or so. And one of the studies is showing that the vitamin and mineral content in our fruits and vegetables may have declined up to 40% so anything that we can do as parents to really get more vitamins and minerals into our kids in a bio available, you know, food or plant based form is really wonderful, and that's why I feel like oat straw is just a great option for that. And then the last one, Tulsi, is an adaptogen. It's called the queen of herbs in Ayurveda. And again, it's in the mint family. It's also called holy basil, and it has just a wonderful kind of fragrant smell and aroma and taste to it. And works really wonderfully for the nervous system, and kind of gives this energizing and calming energy, depending on what we need. So those are, those are some of my favorites for children and adults. Great herbs to think about and to look into. Thank you. Now for parents, as you mentioned before, one of the common concerns you hear from parents is they're worried about the safety. Do you have any advice for parents that are looking into purchasing herbs? How do we know, or how can we be sure that they are high quality and safe products? That's a great question. I wouldn't be purchasing them off Amazon. That wouldn't be the place they would go. I really love this one farm that's in Oregon called oshala. They are certified regenerative, organic. They've been tending the land for over a decade. There's family farm, and they grow hundreds of herbs. They have a pretty wide variety, and their quality is just, it's the best that I've found. It's really just, it's Primo. Everything you get is just fresh. It smells like amazing. It looks beautiful. The color is bright, and they have a really great selection. I can send you a link to them if you want to include in the show notes. Another really popular one is mountain rose herbs. They're an online company. They source from all over the world. I mean, you can get any herb that you want on there, and their quality is good. You know, if I can't find something at oshala, I'll typically be getting it from Mountain rose herbs. There's also a website that is run by the NIH. It's the National Center for Complementary and Integrative Health. And then also for people listening, I can put a link in the show notes to the website, but that's also a great resource, where they share a lot of information about complementary health products. Okay, nice. There's also a mark on products themselves that can show if they're that, that can show if they've been third party tested. That also is something I think that's helpful to look out for. It can be Yes, though, I will say, as a small business owner, getting third party testing isn't something that is that inexpensive, and so not everybody, not every company, is going to have it, and just because the company doesn't have it doesn't mean that they're not doing the right things. I think the best thing to do if you find a company that you want to purchase from, like, just reach out to them. Hey, where do you source your herbs from? Like, are they organic? Like, what's the difference between regenerative, organic, certified and organic? Or, what does it mean if the herbs aren't organic? Like, just ask them questions if you're especially if it's a small company, like, they're going to want to talk to you. Thank you for that tidbit, because you're right. It's a great reminder that for small businesses, it would be expensive to get third party certified, and you don't want to discount those wonderful small businesses. So that's great advice that you can reach out to the owner, and you can reach out to the company and ask them specifically, ask them specifically about the herbs. Yeah. I mean, we have people, I would say, on the regular, that email us, asking us about our sourcing or our production process and things like that. The other thing I like to remind parents that can happen with some herbal remedies is some have alcohol in them, which I think used to be, honestly, a common recommendation for kids when they were teething, they would put a little alcohol in the gums. Didn't think much of it, but now I think we would. Now we are a lot more cautionary with kids and their exposure to alcohol. So I don't know if that's something that you come across, but I do tell parents to just make sure that it's alcohol free, that any tincture that they buy specifically should be alcohol free. Yes, I think that there are a lot of kids lines out there now that are using glycerin instead of alcohol for tinctures. Specifically, you do want to note that there are some plants where the active constituents that you're trying to extract might be alcohol extracted better, you know, might be better extracted in water, like elderberry, for example, or the anthrocyanist, and can't talk right, the main active compound in elderberry is extracted best via water. And so you don't want an alcohol based tincture of elderberry. It's not going to it's not going to provide what you need. And glycerin is a really nice option for that. Glycerin has to be mixed with water, so you are getting that water extraction. I will say, our two cough syrups that we have, we add a little bit of alcohol to them, just for preservation. And I get people emailing me and DMing me on the regular, why does this have alcohol in it? And I get it's like, a personal preference. The the amount that you're taking is, you know, you have to look at that like, Okay, how much am I giving my kid? What portion of this small amount that I'm dosing them is alcohol and like, it's a personal preference does what it's providing like outweigh what I think might be a perceived drawback to it. So again, it's really just like a personal thing. But yeah, I'm not gonna say like, Hey, give your kid like a shot of a shot of a tincture. You know, no one should be taking like, a straight alcohol tincture that's not dropped in water or something. Yes, yes. There's a joke that I heard from a pediatrician. He actually was my pediatrician. He's now, he just turned 80 years old, and he told me the advice that he used to give to parents when kids were teething is he would say, Okay, your kid is teething, poor. Shot a whiskey. Now take a little bit and rub, rub the gums of the child with the whiskey, and then take the rest of it and finish it yourself. Take a shot of the whiskey yourself. Yeah? And he's like, I would never say that now, but that was what we used that that was, believe it or not, advice we used to give families, yeah? I mean, people used to smoke in hospitals too, right? Yes, yes. Now I'm just curious for yourself, as an herbalist, you've been in the business for many years. You've. How people have responded to certain herbs? Have you found a favorite one, two or three herbs that you that now you love to talk about, that You love to spread awareness about, because you've seen how helpful they are? Yeah, absolutely. I would say nettles and oat straw, nourishing herbs that I talked about earlier, and elderberry. Those are like, those are definitely my top three amazing now tell us about your business. I would love to draw some attention to the small business that you've grown and share with us how we can find your products. Yeah. So you can find us online@tasharose.com we make organic herbal supplements for kids and adults. So elderberry syrup, cough syrups, immune support, all of that. And we're also on Instagram at tasharose dot herbalist, so you can find us there, and you can email us through our contact page on our website, I will get back to you or one of my team members. And like I said, like, I love talking to to parents and hearing their questions and trying to support them, like I am always happy to talk plants. So please feel free to DM me or or email us. No and thank you for sharing your knowledge. I mean, for myself, I find in the medical world, a lot of people have this idea that herbs don't work, as you were talking about earlier, and they talk also about how and this is true. A lot of the studies that have shown herbs to be beneficial, we haven't shown them in children, but I think that honestly, as long as it's not causing any harm, why not give it a try. So thank you so much for this knowledge, and thank you so much for empowering parents to know what options are out there for them to try for their kids if they're not feeling well in the future? So thank you. Happy to talk plans always. Thanks for having me. Thank you for listening, and I hope you enjoyed this week's episode of your child is normal. Also, if you could take a moment and leave a five star review, wherever it is you listen to podcasts, I would greatly appreciate it. It really makes a difference to help this podcast grow, you can also follow me on Instagram at ask Dr Jessica, see you next Monday. You.