Ep 183: Feeding Without Fear: A Guide to Starting Solids with Cinthia Scott

This week on Your Child Is Normal, I’m joined by pediatric dietitian Cinthia Scott, co-author of Baby Leads the Way, to talk about starting solids, baby-led weaning, early allergen introduction, picky eating, and how to reduce the pressure we put on ourselves as parents. We cover practical tips like the “smush test,” how to reframe gagging, the myth of “food before one is just for fun,” and how to raise adventurous eaters without mealtime battles.

Dr Jessica Hochman is a board certified pediatrician, mom to three children, and she is very passionate about the health and well being of children. Most of her educational videos are targeted towards general pediatric topics and presented in an easy to understand manner.

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The information presented in Ask Dr Jessica is for general educational purposes only. She does not diagnose medical conditions or formulate treatment plans for specific individuals. If you have a concern about your child's health, be sure to call your child's health care provider.

Transcript

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Hi everyone, and welcome back to your child is normal. I'm your host and pediatrician, Dr Jessica Hochman, so today's episode is all about feeding our kids, especially during those early months when we're introducing solid foods and figuring out how to raise healthy eaters. My guest today is pediatric dietitian Cynthia Scott. She's the co author of the fantastic new book baby leads the way. You might already know Cynthia as the baby dietitian on Instagram where she shares practical evidence based tips with over a half a million followers. In this episode, you'll hear us talk about everything from the best first foods to try to navigating picky eating, early allergen exposure and how to handle stressful meal times. If you've ever felt overwhelmed trying to make sure that your child is getting the right foods. This episode is for you. And before we dive in, if you could take a moment and please leave a five star review wherever it is you listen to podcasts, I'd really appreciate it. Reviews help others find the show. Now, let's get started with Cynthia Scott. Cynthia Scott, I can't wait to get into your new book. It's very exciting. So thanks for being here. Thank you for having you for having me. I'm really excited to talk about it and share it with your followers. So tell me what made you think to write a book about introducing solids. There's so many existing books out there. What need did you think your book would fill? That's a great question. So I do feel like it's kind of been a long time in the making. When I started solids with my six year old, I was given a lot of like information that I felt like I couldn't, I didn't. Was like, I was questioning a lot of things, and I was like, hmm, like, let's go get some books and read up on this topic, which is what I love to do. And what was like, glaringly obvious was each book was so different, like, they were actually, like, telling you the opposite things to do. And so then I just got really confused. And I was like, Okay, well, as a dietitian, I should be able to, you know, go through the research and, like, maybe create a more practical tips. That's evidence based. I really wanted it to be evidence based. So me and a team of other health care professionals, a pediatric allergist, a pediatrician and a speech language pathologist, and then a mom who's also like a chef. We got together, and we created a book called 101 before one, and it was more so focused on evidence based tips, but also like recipes and how to feed your kids easily, making just one meal. And so then, after we did that, we really wanted to have pediatricians get their hands on a quick to read, like easy guide for them, because I know that pediatricians have so much on their plate, so giving them like a pocket guide would be helpful for them to keep updated on current guidelines. And so the AAP reached out to us. The American Academy of Pediatrics reach out to us, I think about two and a half, almost three years ago, and we're like, hey, we want to create this resource, and we would be happy to help you do it. And so our team was like, Absolutely, like, this is exactly what we wanted to do. So that's kind of a short story of how it started. I'm so happy to have this book to talk to you about your book, because I find feeding is really interesting, because it should be fun, right? We all love eating. Eating is a joyous occasion. I look forward to my meals. I know everybody can relate to me when I say that, but for many, many reasons, when it comes to introducing solids to our kids, feeding kids in general, I find with a lot of families, it's a very stressful process. So I love that your book is going to help teach parents how to make feeding more fun, more enjoyable and less stressful. Yes, um, I'm sure you've heard the term like food before. One is just for fun, and we kind of debunk that a little bit, because food should always be fun. Like, there's never a point where, like, food should not be fun, but there is a purpose for it, right? There's always, and there is a need for it at six months of age. So it's not always just for fun, but it always should be fun. So we really want to equip parents to come to the table like and it be a fun environment and a pleasant environment. And we kind of help answer a lot of questions that parents have that can sometimes make feeding kids really stressful and overwhelming. You'll have, you'll have to help me think of a new saying to say to parents. I say it all the time. We'll come up with one. Yeah, we'll come up with one Food For Life. Should not cause strife. I don't know what we'll come up with one that's, that's good. Well, I really always like to say that when we're introducing solids, they're called complementary feedings for a reason, because they're just complimenting their milk based diet. So we're not expecting them to eat huge volumes or to take away from milk feeds. Milk feeds are still meeting the maturity of their nutritional needs for the first 12 months of life, and we're just giving them lots of opportunities for exposure to learn to like new flavors, to learn to like new textures, and in the process, help meet some of those nutrition goals that may be harder to meet with just our milk diet, like iron. Yes, absolutely. So okay, I thought what my audience might enjoy is I would like to address some of the more stressful concerns that I hear from parents as they start feeding. Their children. So I wanted to start the most common concern I hear from parents is they're not sure what food to start with. There's such mixed advice that's given. So what do you say to families? What are some good first foods to think about? Well, like we talked about iron beforehand, iron is one of the core nutrients that our kids really need enough of, and they have a really high estimated need of iron in the first 12 months of life, and that iron helps fuel neuro development. So I like to say, instead of it just being like one specific food, like, I just try to focus on iron rich foods, if you can. That could be a sweet potato, like a plant based source of iron, like a sweet potato, you could match that up. Or you could serve finger food style, like baked sweet potato wedges. Avocados are great for their healthy fats, which we know babies really need a lot of that. Other iron rich foods could be, like we did, a lot of ground beef mixed into like mashed potatoes or butternut squash or pumpkin so that, if you're one, if you're not comfortable yet giving like a whole meatball or ground meats on their own. You can mix them and make them into a textured puree. So I really like to focus on iron rich foods. Other good ones are like roasted broccoli, quinoa or lentils, things like that. And of course, you know, we rely heavily in the US on iron fortified cereals. Those can be a fine addition too, to their diet. If you want to use those, it could be a really helpful way to get a lot of iron into your kids who are only consuming a few bites here and there. I know some people really don't like to use them, and if you don't like to use them, that's fine. Just focus on whole food sources of iron, rich foods too. And then, of course, like just lots of variety with whatever you're offering, some of my favorite iron rich foods also are just, just to chime in there to give parents more ideas. I love anything from the bean family. So black beans, pinto beans, great source of iron, and also eggs. Egg yolks are really rich in iron, and sometimes that's an easy way to introduce iron, because a lot of families enjoy scrambling eggs or having eggs in the diet, so it's an easy way to not, not change what you're already eating and make sure that you're giving your your children the nutrition that they need. Yeah, we really focus on like just baking one feel one meal for the whole family, so taking whatever the family is used to eating in the morning and seeing if we can modify that. You know, within reason, if we're eating something that's totally inappropriate for the kids, or a choking risk, we wouldn't give that. But trying to go off what, like you said, what parents are already making in the morning, and try to make it appropriate for the kiddo to enjoy as well, amazing and just for parents that are listening that might be concerned, how do I know if my kid is getting enough iron? Something that we routinely do at the pediatrician visits is somewhere around a year we check an iron so that can help gage families on whether or not their children are getting enough iron. Okay, so another common question that I get kids when they start eating foods, it's very common, and actually expected that they gag, and that can frighten a lot of parents, and I noticed that you talk about this a lot on your Instagram page, which I really appreciate. How should we view that gag reflex? Yeah, that's a great question. So when we're first starting solids, well, babies naturally have their gag reflex further forward in their mouth. So it's not like us, where ours is farther in our back, um, it's up at the front of their mouth. So when introducing anything, including purees. We may expect some gagging right from the get go. This could be their first bite of food, or maybe it's a few meals in. But this is, this is a protective effect. So the body is doing this to protect the child from choking, so it's not choking. Gagging and choking are totally different. Gagging is when we see the tongue thrust out of the mouth. We're hearing noises, and usually some of the food will come out of their mouth as they thrust their tongue forward. So this is a protective effect. We we like to see it. It's not a bad thing unless it's happening all the time, but so we should expect to see some of this one for starting solids in the first month or two. It's typically considered normal, so that is why we typically recommend, if you're doing baby led weaning, that you're doing the bigger pieces of food, because babies don't have a lot of oral awareness quite yet, so the bigger pieces are easier for them to find out where they are in their mouth and push them out if it's too big for them to handle. So thank you so much for for explaining this, because this question comes up all the time, and it's true, if you think about it, it makes sense that gagging would be a normal protective mechanism, because babies don't know how they're not confident eaters, yet they're learning how to eat. So it's so brilliant that the body has them gag, but it's frightening as a parent to watch, so thanks for that reminder. Yeah. And then as they you know, as you give them more exposure to different foods and different textures and all of that, the gag reflex will move backwards to where it is in the adult so you shouldn't really experience that later on as much as you do when you're first introducing solids. A lot of parents have questions about baby led feeding, baby led weaning. Can you explain what that is? You define that? Yes. So typically, baby led weaning is considered giving your child finger foods instead of purees. So you're giving them big pieces of food that they can pick up with their pomeras and self feed. That is typically when you ask somebody what baby led weaning is? That is what they think. But really, baby led weaning is just allowing your child to self feed no matter what type of food you're giving them. So if a parent is doing purees and letting the child self feed purees, that's still baby led weaning, because you're still allowing the child to lead the way and feed themselves and choose when to stop and when to eat more. So I think there is a big misconception, like, if somebody says they're doing baby led weaning, that means that they think that they can't do purees. But that's not true at all. So our book really talks about that a lot, because we encourage parents to do what they feel most comfortable with. And if that's starting with purees, then we want you to start with purees. And if you want to do finger foods, then we want to give you the education you need to do it safely. So we're really big on responsive feeding, which that just means that we let baby lead the way. We honor their hunger cues. So when they're giving us signs of fullness, we stop when we don't pressure them to eat more, and when they're showing signs of hunger, we give more portions, or we allow them to self feed more. So does that answer that question? It totally does. And so I think that's really helpful, because there's a lot of myths out there about baby led weaning. I think some parents feel like they're supposed to give their kids hunks of chicken right from the get go. And for a lot of families, I think that that feels scary, and I understand that, because they're worried about choking. And for so many years, we've advised kids to start with purees or rice cereal. And so I think for older generations, when you see kids take chunks of food, that can feel like a risky thing to do, but I like what you're describing, and I think this is right, that the big picture is we just want kids to enjoy feeding. We want to honor their hunger cues. I think all of us can agree that it doesn't feel good to be forced to eat something. So what I feel like you're doing is you're setting up a tone for joyful feeding, which to me, feels fantastic. Yeah, we we say it well, I say to all my clients a lot, and we repeat it over and over again in the book, like your kids can sense when you're anxious or stressed or overwhelmed. And so if doing baby led weaning or baby led feeding is making you stressed and overwhelmed at meals, then that's probably not the route you should take right now. Maybe you could revisit it. But there's also a lot of texture exposure you can give when doing puree. So instead of just sticking to a thin puree for weeks at a time, and not giving them a lot of exposure to develop a diverse palette. We can just slightly thicken purees, or we can add some more texture in the purees. And so you can do like a gradual increase in the puree thickness to get to, like a mashed potato or a scrambled egg. And so you're still allowing them opportunity to learn how to eat different textures. Fantastic. And then I find that this is a helpful mention for for for parents that are starting feeding, I always like to tell them the most common choking hazards for kids, because that way they can understand the foods that we'd like them to avoid. So can you talk about what those choking hazards really are? Yeah, I think the big ones are like cherry tomatoes, grapes, anything round and circular that's like the perfect fit to clog your windpipe. Other things are like things that are too hard or crunchy. We're only going to give soft, Mashable things that we can put in our fingers and squish easily. Those are the only types of foods that we're giving our baby. Of course, we're not going to give them. Hot dogs, dried fruit, nuts, seeds, things like that. What other ones are you thinking of? No, that's perfect. I always think if you can picture that it's the perfect size to lodge in an airway that wouldn't get dissolved by saliva. So you mentioned perfect ones, hot dogs, grapes, whole nuts, dried chicken, hard candies, popcorns a culprit. So I think if you can picture the typical foods that cause most choking risk to children, I think for a lot of parents, that can be a relief just to know what foods in particular are best to avoid. Yeah, we always say, like, use the smush test, which is just smushing it between your own fingers before you provide it to the baby. Generally, if you can squish it between your fingers and it easily gives that's a good sign that it's okay for your baby. I really like that. The smush test, I'm going to use that and some of those foods that I mentioned, too, you can make them safe if you cut them into small pieces. So grapes, for example, yes, it's risky to give it to a child that's young, whole, but if you cut it into multiple pieces, then it's a fine food to give. Then it would pass the smush test. Yeah. So yeah, for grape, specifically, if they're quartered, they can be given, actually, to, I think, nine to 12 month plus. I like to err on the side of caution and say 12 months plus. But I believe, because it's such a small piece, and they're using their PIN. Or grass to pick it up, it is considered safe in quarters around nine or 10 months, I find that a lot of parents, they restrict their kids to a very small menu, and I want to talk about the best ways, or some helpful advice on how to make kids more adventurous eaters. So in other words, if you give a kid a food, like, let's say, a vegetable, and they don't like it the first time they try it. What would you advise to parents keep offering it? So studies show that it may take up to 10 to 12 exposures to a new food for a child to become receptive to even trying that food, and that can feel really overwhelming and like a lot of work for not like reaping a lot of rewards early on, but I talk about this a lot on my platform, because I promise you that it works. We could also try, like, adding different flavors. So not just serving the food the same way every single time, but maybe adding a different flavor profile or serving it in different ways, like eggs, is a really great, great example of that. There's so many different ways we can serve an we can serve an egg, right? We could do French toast. We could do a boiled egg, we could do scrambled egg. We could do an egg omelet. So if your child's not loving it the first couple times you try it, let's try something different, and maybe just the different presentation would be enough to get them interested in trying it. We also really encourage, like, food exploration. So we know that when kids are able to feel things and have their senses involved in it, it can increase their receptiveness to bringing that thing to their mouth. So if, if you're not comfortable doing it at meal times, having a time apart from meals where you give them that food that they're not really interested in, and let them feel it and play with it and touch it and smell it and talk about it so they get a little bit more comfortable with it, in hopes that the next time we offer it at a meal time, they will try it. I love that reminder, because I think it is so easy for us as parents to, let's say, make broccoli one time, two times, three times, and if the kids reject it, they don't eat it. We make this assumption that they're never going to like broccoli, but it's such a helpful message to know it takes 10, 1215, times for kids to be exposed where they're maybe going to taste that that vegetable. And also, I love that reminder and that piece of advice that preparing it differently may help kids be more interested in taking that food. I know that's true for myself. Same, same. Sometimes I don't like the way things look or feel or smell. I don't know, so I just, I always try to relate it back to adults too. Like the first time we're given a new food that maybe is like a cultural food that we've never experienced before, like we may be a little bit iffy on if we want to try it or not, especially if it's not something we've seen before, something we don't know anything about. So I just like, try to, like, help moms feel a little bit more like that's the same thing we're doing when we give our kids a new food that they've never had before. So we just need to give them time. And I think the what we don't want to do is we don't want to like pressure them so that they feel this overwhelming sense of like my mom is expecting me to do this. We really don't want to put that type of pressure on them. We just want it to be like an engaging, explore, exploring situation where there's not a ton of pressure or negative aspect of it. I love that reminder, because I find that feeding kids for so many families, it becomes very stressful, and I feel badly about that, because it really shouldn't be. So these are great tips. Okay, now, now I'm really curious. So you are a pediatric dietitian. You've a lot of experience. You've written about this, you've read about this, you've treated a lot of families for yourself as a mom, did you come up against any roadblocks that you weren't expecting? That's a really great question, and I honestly think that is the reason why I have such a following on social media, is because of me sharing real life food struggles. So with my first son, he is six months. He's six years old now, but at 12 months, we got diagnosed with iron deficiency anemia. I knew all about giving iron rich foods. I did it from the get go. I did all the quote, unquote, right things, but we still struggled with that. So I feel like I'm able to speak to that quite a bit better now, because I've walked through it myself with Hayes, who's my almost three year old. He has a dairy allergy. I promote, like, introduce top allergens early and often to prevent food allergies. All the time, I did that, and we still had a child who had a dairy allergy, and we do still sometimes have foods. I mean, I I am going to say I am very, very lucky that I have the education that I have to promote really great dietary habits for my kids early on, and I don't take that for granted. But even with me doing all of these things, we do, still some sometimes have foods that they're not interested in, or meals that they're just not. Wanting to partake in and so I think being able to share, like real life, what approaches I use around those struggles and challenges have, like, really helped a lot of other mothers who don't have the education that I do, but it can probably be really helpful to see that even though I know all these things, it's not like it's 100% going to prevent any feeding challenges. And I'm sorry that your kids have had those struggles, but I'll bet it makes you a better pediatric dietitian. Oh for sure, I can relate better. I can give better insight, because it's things that I've had to dig deeper into. So I do definitely feel like I'm thankful for those challenges. Now, you just touched upon early introduction of allergens. Can you explain what that means and give advice to families on how to do that. Because I, for example, I know we talk a lot about early introduction of nuts, and for a lot of families that can feel stressful. Do you have any specific advice on that front? Yeah, so we have a pediatric allergist on our team at baby leads the way in our book, and she wrote a whole chapter all about this, and she's like the queen of allergy information. Yes, the general recommendations are that we want to rec that we want to introduce top nine allergens early and often for the potential for preventing food allergies. It used to be that they recommended that we avoid them, and then we noticed that that actually, their studies showed that actually caused more issues. So when it comes to things like peanuts and eggs, which are like the top ones that we have a lot of significant research on, eggs are pretty easy. We've talked about them a lot. Those are pretty easy to get into their diet early and often. But then we talked about nuts being a choking risk, and now you're telling me to give them to a six month old. So like, Please debunk that for me. So I was so but nuts are actually, there's so many products available now that make it really, really easy to introduce nuts to your kids. So they have peanut butter puffs. They have ground peanuts, so that you can just like, literally sprinkle it into their oatmeal in their morning, or their yogurt, or whatever is their usual puree. The peanut butter puffs were like, a huge hit with my boys. But then you can also just use regular peanut butter, unsalted and unsweetened if possible. And you can just add a little bit of breast milk or formula or water and thin it out and give that on a spoon for them. So there's a lot of ways to just give, like, a small amount of peanut early and often to help prevent them having a peanut allergy. Have you ever heard of Ready Set food or any of those early introduction products that have peanuts pulverized already for you? Yes, yeah. And I say, if that's the easiest way for you to get it in, then go for it. Yeah. I'm full so, full disclosure, I have allergies in my family. My nephew has really significant allergies, and so my two brothers in law, that's actually their products. But that's something that a lot of us don't know about, how important it is to introduce allergens early. And the way I think about it is, you know that clean hygiene hypothesis, like kids that are too clean, they get sick more often. You really want to expose them, have them roll around in dirt, expose their body to all sorts of germs. That actually makes the immune system stronger. It's very similar with foods that the more you're exposed, the earlier you're exposed. While it's not perfect at preventing all allergies like you experienced in your life, it makes a big impact in preventing allergies in the future. Yeah, it's a relatively like, simpler thing that we can do to hopefully prevent a bigger issue. So yeah, I'm so happy that so many brands are like creating these products that make it easier for parents to introduce allergens early. I also just think it's a good reminder that it's actually helpful to not be so rigid when it comes to feeding different kinds of foods to our kids. You know, whether it's whatever's on our plate, just put a little bit on our finger, put it in put it in their mouth, just to taste, to explore, just to encourage a variety in the diet from the outset, I think is a helpful reminder. Yeah, I think, you know, like, especially if you're a family that has, like, a lot of cultural dishes that you really love and enjoy, maybe they're have a little bit of spice or a little bit of something in them. Like, if we want our kids to eat that when they're 12 months, or when they're two years old, or when they're three years old, we can start giving them aspects of that meal right at six months. So it's not like a transition period, right? They're already used to it. They've been given it. Maybe we might have to dull down the spices or the salt or the sugar or whatever it is, but it's not a new brand new food to them. They've already been given opportunities to learn to like it. Yes, and I have to say reading like Instagram pages like yours, or reading books on how to introduce foods that can be so helpful. I remember my children did not like sweet potatoes. They were not interested in vegetables. And I read, just try adding cinnamon, and that made such a big difference. So you're right, some added spices really can make a big difference. So now I want to ask you, meal time with children can be so stressful. We know it's a great time to be together, but inevitably, it causes stress. Kids throw their foods on the floor. They don't want to eat what we're serving them. Can you give some tips in general? How can parents Make mealtime less stressful? Okay, my top three tips. Tips, and they're going to be so simple that people are going to be like, those aren't really even tips, but I promise you, they work. Is if we're introducing a new food or something that we know that's not their favorite, we want to make sure that we always have a safe food on their plate, so that's a food that we know they enjoy. So if we have a plate full of non preferred foods or foods they've never had before. We're most likely going to have a mealtime battle. But if you give a plate with maybe two of their favorite foods and then one non preferred food, it immediately makes the meal more approachable to them. It makes them feel safe, it makes them feel comfortable, and they know that even if they don't eat that non preferred food, they have foods on their plate that they do like and they are going to want to eat. So that would be like one simple thing to do. Secondly, with those non preferred or new foods, we're going to start really small. We're not going to give them, like a heaping portion of broccoli if we know they don't like it or they've never had it before. We're going to give them like a tiny, itty bitty piece. It's going to make it very approachable, and they're not going to feel overwhelmed. So I like to use those all the time. And then, thirdly, with in regards to like, non preferred not liking foods is we can just talk about the food. We don't have to say, just try a bite. We could be like, hey, what does it smell like? Can you pick it up? Just picking it up is a great step to them eating it. Can you pick it up and can you smell it? What does it smell like to you? What does it remind you of? Does it remind you of a tree? Because it kind of reminds me of a tree and one of the silliest things. I mean, sometimes meals have to be silly, and I know that's hard for people that that really like, like a very structured meal time, but sometimes getting kids to try new foods takes some creativity and some silliness. For instance, like with broccoli. My boys love broccoli because we talk about them being trees, and we are lumberjacks and we're gonna cut down the trees with our mouth. I don't know, does it make sense? Not really, but my kids are like, yes, we're gonna be lumberjacks today. I'm gonna cut down the biggest tree. And that was enough to get them comfortable with putting the broccoli in their mouth, and now they enjoy the flavor. So I think we talk about different tactics and how to do this in our book a lot, but just like making it more approachable, because with anything, we just need to, we just need to make it fun for our kids. And then they're like, Yeah, I'm into it. That's so true. I remember with carrots, we would pretend to be rabbits, and we'd have silly voices. We'd make it funny, we'd make it silly, and then all of a sudden, we're having a great time eating vegetables. Yeah, and you're having a good time, you're not stressed about it, and you never had to, like, say you have to eat this or you can't get up. You know what I mean? Like, that kind of makes us feel bad if we had to say that. So it just reframes it for us too. Now, what about kids that don't eat that much? That is something that is so stressful for parents, they can hone in on the fact that their kid didn't eat that much at a meal, and I just know that it for so many parents that's really hard for them to finish a meal and know that their kid did not eat that much quantity. What's your advice in that situation? Yeah, this is a this is a good question that I feel like has a lot of layers. I think there is a widespread we as parents feel like our kids need a much larger volume than they actually do. So I think that would be like my first point is, if we have really encouraged intuitive eating from the get go, encouraged our child to stop eating and eat when they're full. We we can learn to trust them in some instances. Well, when it comes to feeding, sorry, I said that wrong. But if they're coming to the table and we've given them safe foods, we know that we've given them some foods that they enjoy and they like, and they've eaten to their full, and it's not the portion size we wanted them to consume. We just need to check and make sure, like, is that actually the right portion size for them, or is it the portion size that I want them to eat? You know what I mean. So after 12 months of age, growth rate, like, really decreases in the first year of life. We're, like, expecting kids to, like, triple in birth weight, right? And so they might actually more in that first year of life when it comes to solid foods, and then once they hit toddlerhood, their appetites slow down, because we don't want them to triple their weight three times in a year, every year. So I feel like that's a big thing. I talk to clients a lot about, like, just our expectations on what the appropriate volume is. But I do know there are many kids that do struggle with severe, picky eating or sensory issues or feeding issues, and they're not eating what they need. And if you feel like that is a problem, that you're go, that you're walking with through, through with your kid, then we always recommend like just seeking out additional support. It might be totally normal. They might be eating exactly what they need for their body, but if you're concerned, seek out support from a dietitian or a feeding therapist or your pediatrician just to make sure that things are on the right track, perfect. And I and I agree, it's when you think about it, I love that you pointed out the tripling the birth weight, because if you think about it quantitatively, so if, let's say, an average baby is born around seven pounds, they usually double their weight by. Four months, they're 14 pounds, and then, and then around a year, they're tripled, and they're over 20 pounds. That's a big increase. And then oftentimes, when I see kids jump from year one to year two, maybe they'll just gain three, four pounds. So you're right that the the rate of weight increase significant, significantly declines, and that can throw parents off from what they're what they are used to seeing the first year. And I have a lot of parents, they'll say, oh my goodness, my one year old is only four pounds away from my three year old. That can't be normal. My three year old must be not eating enough. But it's actually typical. Yeah, no, I completely agree. And I think when they hit that 12 month mark, and we're starting to notice less volume is when parents get really worried because they don't understand the growth rate changes. And that's when they're like, Okay, we're going to give them whatever they will eat. So they're going to give them all the same foods over and over again, because they're worried about their child meeting their nutritional needs and not gaining enough weight. And so then we or not getting enough yeah, not gaining enough weight. And so then we run into the fact that they're so worried about giving them what they need that we've stopped giving variety. And then we have to kind of go back and, like, help create a diverse diet again, once our kids are a little bit more independent and a little bit less adventurous, the other thing that I find that is normal, so I want to point this out to parents, because I think it can add stress, but it's very common for kids to eat a great meal and then the next two, three meals not be so great. And I think a lot of US adults, we are accustomed to having hunger for breakfast, lunch, dinner, and kids, I find are much more attuned to eating when they're really hungry. Do you find that as well? Yes, and I think there's actually, I think there's some data about, like, looking at a child's five to six day window of eats is more accurate on like, how well they're doing with meeting their body needs, versus like, looking like at one meal or one day. So we may notice that one day, our kid just doesn't eat a ton, and the next day they eat everything in sight. And it just fluctuates so much. I love that. I think looking back at a five, six day window just feels so much less stressful. So going back to my initial goal of trying to make mealtime and feeding kids less stressful, if you hone in on every meal and hoping that they eat what we're expecting, we're just going to set ourselves up for more disappointment, more stress. So that's a that's a great piece of advice. I really like that. Now another, another common concern I get from parents, they wonder about convenient foods. So there's a lot out there about having snack foods and pouches. Do you have any feelings about whether that is not advisable, or advisable, or somewhere in the middle, tell me your thoughts on convenient snack foods. I think for most families, it's nearly impossible to go without any convenience or packaged snacks. I think with working moms, myself included, like it's really nice to have some trusted packaged foods on hands that you know, like they're low and added sugar, they have nutrients that our kids needs, like they're fortified with iron or calcium, and so I definitely think that there's a place for packaged snacks. I do feel like there's an we rely on them too much. I do think that, you know, our kids are going to eat the packaged snacks probably more willingly than they would like a banana or a cucumber or something, because the packaged snack looks the same every single time they get it. There is the same thing in it. It's comfortable, it's predictable. Versus a cucumber is going to look different depending on which one you buy. A banana is going to look different. So I do think there is an over reliance on packaged snacks. I definitely feel that they can help fill a gap. But I do push for can we get most of their nutritional needs met from whole foods when possible. That's great. I think that's such practical, real, helpful advice, because a lot of new parents can put a lot of pressure on themselves to make their meals from scratch, to have it home cooked, and that's just not real. That's not that's just not realistic. So yeah, giving yourself grace to use convenient options when you need it to fill your own cup and then refocus on another meal that's going to be like, what you expect is like a nutritious diet, I think is really key. I mean, like, we, you know, we can use, like, a can of tomatoes to make a homemade pasta sauce that's still considered a package convenient, convenient food. But I'm not going to use canned tomatoes just because I'm going to need to grow them from my grow them from my garden. Do you know what I mean? Like, I think there's a place for them, for sure. Yes. And also I I remember feeling very defeated when I tried really hard to make food from scratch. I'm not someone that looks that enjoys cooking, to be honest. And so I remember making really great homemade soups that were really healthy. And then when my kids didn't want them, it just felt very stressful. So, you know, I think the reality is just going for those Whole Foods, however, however you can get them in your kids, and then looking for a balanced approach, to me, feels like a good way to think about feeding your kids. Yeah, and I do want to point out that I feel like brands are stepping up to provide. Provide more nutritious snack options for kids. And I don't feel like we had this 10 years ago, so I'm thankful for the brands that are doing a good job of giving us packaged snacks that are also helpful in meeting nutritional needs, like less dyes, less added sugars, lower in sodium, more natural ingredients there. You know, there's tons of bars now that are just like literally made out of dates and ground nuts and stuff. You know me like things that you could make at home. Yeah, you could do it, but you're not always going to have time to so I do think that we do have better options now. Fantastic. That's great to hear now, as we conclude, if you could give parents one final takeaway message that you'd like them to get from your book, one key message, what would it be? You can stop googling. It's starting solids and feeding your kids doesn't have to be stressful if you're equipped with evidence based guidelines and feel confident. And so I think this, this book is to help parents just be able to take a deep breath, have the information at hand, go through whatever chapter they need to at the moment, have their lists and their recommendations and know that this is Bapt research. I love it. I love it so much I'm still going to think of a new we'll say under one, just for fun, I'm trying to think of a new another one. I probably should have already come up with a new one at this point. If I'm going to say, don't use it, I need to come up with a new one, right? I'll think about it though. I'll let you know. How about if you're going to eat food, have it put you in a good mood? How's that? That's great. Well, to be continued, we'll keep working on it. I'll get back to you, or get back to me. If you think of anything, I will. Thank you so much. I'm really excited for you. If anyone's looking for a fantastic resource to give confidence, to give good evidence based advice on how to start feeding, how to raise happy, healthy eaters in a way that's not too stressful. I definitely recommend getting baby leads the way and congratulations. Thank you so much for having me. I really appreciate it. Thank you for listening, and I hope you enjoyed this week's episode of your child is normal. Also, if you could take a moment and leave a five star review wherever it is. You listen to podcasts, I would greatly appreciate it. It really makes a difference to help this podcast grow. You can also follow me on Instagram at ask Dr Jessica. See you next Monday. You.