Ep 206: Navigating Toddler Behavior: From Tantrums to Understanding with Devon Kuntzman, Transforming Toddlerhood

In Episode 206 of 'Your Child is Normal,' the host welcomes back Devon, a toddler expert, to discuss her journey since the last time she appeared three years ago. During this time, Devon became a mother and wrote a comprehensive book titled 'Transforming Toddlerhood.' She shares her evolved perspectives on toddler behavior and parenting, emphasizing the significance of empathy, the benefits of natural consequences, and practical advice for dealing with common toddler challenges like tantrums, transitions, and defiance. Devon also elaborates on her book, which serves as a practical guide for parents with actionable advice, focusing on various aspects of toddler development. Additionally, the conversation highlights the importance of community support, outdoor activities for children, and self-compassion for parents. The episode concludes with information on where to find Devon’s new book and her extensive online community at transformingtoddlerhood.com. Devon’s book 'Transforming Toddlerhood' is available on Amazon and other major book retailers.

Your Child is Normal is the trusted podcast for parents, pediatricians, and child health experts who want smart, nuanced conversations about raising healthy, resilient kids. Hosted by Dr. Jessica Hochman — a board-certified practicing pediatrician — the show combines evidence-based medicine, expert interviews, and real-world parenting advice to help listeners navigate everything from sleep struggles to mental health, nutrition, screen time, and more.

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Transcript

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Hello listeners. This is Dr Jessica Hochman. I'm excited to share that I am now booking sponsorships for your child. Is normal for this fall. If you have a product, service or a message that you think our listeners would benefit from, whether it's for parents, kids, health care or family life in general, this could be a great opportunity. You can find details on how to sponsor by checking the show notes. Just click the link that says how to sponsor an episode, and I'll let you know for a good match and get back to you. Hi everyone, and welcome back to your child is normal. I'm your host. Dr Jessica Hochman, today I'm thrilled to welcome back toddler expert Devon from transforming toddlerhood. It's been over three years since she was last on the podcast. If you'd like to go back and listen, that was episode 40, and so much has changed for her since then, she's launched a course, she's written a book, and she's become a mom herself. So in this conversation, we talk about how real life parenting deepens her empathy, why staying calm is a superpower during tantrums, and we dig into transitions, screens, natural consequences and how to reframe toddler behavior as communication. So if you have a toddler in your life, I think you'll find this episode incredibly helpful. Devon offers practical tools. She helps us understand what's really going on with toddlers, and she provides so much reassurance. Please share this episode with anyone who might benefit from a thoughtful and encouraging conversation about toddler behavior. All right. Now let's dive into my conversation with Devin from transforming toddlerhood. I want to take a moment to tell you about tiny health. Tiny health is the first and only at home microbiome test designed specifically for kids. So as a pediatrician, I'm often asked, Should I give my child probiotics? And if so, which one? And the truth is, everyone's microbiome is unique, so without testing, it's nearly impossible to know what your child may actually need. So that's where tiny health comes in. Their Easy at Home test gives you a clear snapshot of your child's gut microbiome, and you'll get back personalized science based recommendations. The results help you know exactly what supports may be helpful, and sometimes you'll find that your child doesn't need anything at all to try tiny health for your family. Go to tinyhealth.com and use the code. Dr Jessica, D, R, J, E, S, S, I, C, A, for an exclusive discount. Devin, I'm so happy to have you back on the podcast, and I cannot believe that it was over three years that you were last on I know it's just hard to think that much time has passed. It's true. And I was so grateful when you agreed to come on my podcast, because at the time, I was just getting started, and you had already amassed a large following, and when you said yes, I was so excited. So thank you again for coming on the podcast before and coming back on today. Oh well, thank you so much for having me. I mean, I love talking about toddlers more than anything in the world, so I'm always jazzed up to do it. So I'm very excited for you. Since we've last talked, a lot has changed. Yes, we're going to talk about your book and your course, but also, you've become a mom since we last spoke. You know, last night I celebrated my 42nd birthday, my son is now three, and I just wasn't even ready for this moment where he had his birthday two months ago, and he really started to understand, like a birthday, a party gifts. And so the night before my birthday, I told him, tomorrow is Mama's birthday, he was so excited, asking, do you want balloons? Can we use the Lightning McQueen candle? And so it made it so much more special, because he was so excited and jazzed up to celebrate with me. And I'm like, I wasn't prepared for such a fun, special moment like that. How wonderful to experience where your child is happy for you. Yeah, absolutely. So I'm just so curious, before you became a parent, you were a toddler expert. We spoke a lot about toddler behavior and managing toddler communication and difficult scenarios that come up with toddlers. Since you become a mom, are there any stances or thoughts that you had in the past that have now softened or changed? Yeah, well, I would say when it comes to parenting, specifically, this stance hasn't necessarily change. If anything, I think it's interesting the emotional bond, right? The emotional bond with my child has given me access to, like, so much more empathy. And in these moments where I just see him, like, melding down and upset, I'm just like, oh, this poor little child, like he is just doing his best, and he's not trying to be bad right now. He's just really having a hard time. So it's like, grown my empathy by so much at the same time, because I see moments where it would be easier to just be permissive and not follow through on a limit or not set a limit that needs to actually be set. And so there's moments I notice myself wanting to be permissive, just so my son will stop crying, and so I have to, like, remind myself from those moments, oh, it's important to set this limit. And just because he's crying doesn't mean I'm doing something wrong, nor is there anything wrong with him. It's just part of the process here. So that's been an interesting nuance for me. And aside from that, it's funny, there's all kinds of things I said I wouldn't do. As a parent, I don't know, like, buy my kid, like, a bunch of plastic toys and stuff like that. And wouldn't you know, my kid's obsessed with cars, like Disney Cars, and we have so many things from that. And I'm like, You know what? You never know what your child's gonna be passionate about, isn't that the truth? And it's so fun when they find their passion. Yeah, I have to say myself, looking back before I had kids and I was a pediatrician, I gave a lot of advice that after having kids, I would not give any more. So I was curious if you had a similar experience giving advice before having a kid as a toddler, expert and then afterwards. So it sounds like in your situation, it made you a better mom, a more compassionate mom. I definitely think I can see just how hard it is to set limits and follow through whenever it's your own child, right, because of the emotional bond. So I think I have a new level of empathy for everyone, absolutely. And I think empathy is the key to making so many life scenarios easier. You know, the ability to stand in someone else's shoes or to think, how would it feel if I was in their shoes? Just softens all of the emotions it truly but I'm thinking about before I had kids at work, let's say their toddler injured themselves. I would tell parents, oh, just put ice on it. And then I remember when I had a toddler trying to keep ice on their forehead was impossible. So I now I change it to if you can, if they let you put ice on their forehead, consider that for a few minutes. Or another example I'm thinking of is when when kids are sick. I would tell parents before I had kids, keep your kids separated so that they don't pass the illness from one to the other. And then after having kids, I realized that that is an impossible ask, unless you literally live in different homes. So I do think having kids definitely changes the advice that parenting or child experts give in a good way, I hope, yeah, absolutely, in a more empathetic way, as you said, yep. Okay, so, so getting onto your book, which I am so excited for you that you wrote a book I know that is no easy feat, and I can't imagine how much work you put into creating such a wonderful book. What was the inspiration for you, because I know there's a lot of books that exist already on toddlers. What inspired you to write a book? What did you think was missing from the current bookshelves? Like, what excited you to write a book that wasn't already available for parents to read? So I'm so glad you asked me this question. I started transforming toddlerhood in 2018 so all of these years, I've had so many parents DMing me, asking me the same types of questions over and over about biting and hitting and tantrums and all of these things. And I started to realize that parents are just so exhausted by searching all over Instagram, Googling everywhere to find quality information on how to handle all of these different scenarios, and it's challenging, right? And you want to have information you can rely on. And so what I realized was missing is a book that's basically the equivalent to what to expect. But for toddlerhood, we have books that are comprehensive for pregnancy, for infancy, but we don't really have it for the toddler years. So when I wrote transforming toddlerhood, this is an all in one, comprehensive guide to parenting kids ages one to five, we cover it all. We cover what is a toddler and how do you know you have one? We cover development, brain development, sensory system, decoding, behavior and discipline that is developmentally smart, and then beyond that, we cover more than 27 different common challenges you're going to face with your child. And there is a small mini chapter on each one of those, giving you toddler tips, scripts, behavior, red flags, everything you need to know to be able to overcome these challenges. And I just wanted there to be a quick reference guide that could be like your parental companion or best friend. What you're saying is, you know, all the questions, all the most common questions that parents ask when they have a toddler, and now all of those common questions are available in one book to read, to read exactly. And also, quite frankly, I want to write a book that I could actually read as a toddler parent. Because right now, if you ask me to read a book that has like 12 chapters and each chapter is like 20 some pages, like, I can't make it through more than a couple of pages. I'm like, rereading it. I'm falling asleep. I mean, I'm a tired toddler parent, so that's why I wrote a book with a bunch of short chapters that just as really easy to read and easy to digest, so you just don't have to go searching to find the information you actually need. Fantastic. That sounds perfect. Yeah. So I thought I could go through with you some of the most common questions that I hear at work as a pediatrician, I think a lot of families will really appreciate hearing what a toddler expert has to say, what your advice would be. So the first big question that comes up is a lot of parents are just plain and simple frustrated when their kids tantrum. I think we tend to take it personally. We feel like our kids shouldn't be tantruming. People are looking at us, especially if it's happening in public. Maybe we feel judged. Maybe we feel like it's a behavior that should be avoided. How can you help parents reconsider how we're thinking about tantrums so that we don't take it personally? Yeah, here's the thing, it's hard to hear your child cry. It is so hard for so many different reasons, and tantrums are such an important and typical part of toddler development. It's really an emotional release, right? It's the release of all the build up frustrations and emotions that have built up for your child. You know, because toddlers have very little control over their lives, and so they're constantly being faced with their lack of control and lack of independence when they're in a developmental period that they have a developmental drive to have a sense of control and to be independent. So it's very challenging. And so those frustrations build up all day long, and then something happens that will push them over the edge. So my friend Patty whipfler, the founder of hand in hand parenting, likes to call this an emotional poop. So I find that that's a really humorous way to start reframing, like, Oh, my child just needs to have their emotional poop, and then they're going to feel better. Because the reality is, is that when a child has a tantrum and then they're able to come back to their equilibrium with our support, then they're creating that emotional resilience and learning those social emotional skills that are gonna serve them for years to come. I love that expression, the emotional poop, because adding some humor to the idea of tantrums, I think is fantastic and brilliant. Because I find a lot of us parents, we sort of tiptoe around our kids. We sort of walk on eggshells for fear that they're going to have a tantrum. We're afraid to say no to them for that piece of cake, or we're afraid to tell them no that they can't have that toy at the toy store. So I think reframing it for parents, understanding that it is normal, that having an emotional release is healthy, I think that's a really positive spin on it, so I appreciate that perspective. Yeah, so then that leads me to while they're having the tantrum. As you said, it's really hard for parents to hear their kids cry. What advice do you have for parents to keep our calm, to keep our cool? Yeah, well, I think the biggest thing whether it's your child tantruming, your child, you know, just took a toy from someone, your toddler, hit you, whatever the behavior might be reminding yourself that this is not an emergency. Is going to be your best friend if you have established physical safety. So in a tantrum, establishing physical safety might mean your child's not going to, like fall out of a cart at a store, or they're not going to fall off a couch, or if they're having a tantrum on the kitchen floor, they're not going to hit their head on like, the edge of cupboards or something like that. So you know your child is physically safe, and you've created some distance that they're like, lashing out, hitting and kicking, and then you can tell yourself, this is not an emergency. I am safe. My child is safe. Because, quite frankly, that sense of urgency we feel that gets us all revved up as part of our own stress response, and it's our job to disrupt our stress response so then we can stay calm. And the more that we can stay calm, then the more likely our child is to calm down faster when we're not jumping on their emotional roller coaster. And then, once you say this is not an emergency, what you want to do is start looking at, okay, how do you ground yourself? What are some grounding practices that work for you? So maybe it is opening the window, taking a breath of fresh air, taking deep breaths, like getting our body and our senses focused in a different direction will oftentimes help us disrupt that stress response. So I'm thinking it's a good reminder to think of other alternatives. Yes, I find myself checking out. You know, look at my phone, or I'll walk away. But better to stay there and stay present. But oftentimes, though, honestly, I feel like that if where we're at in that moment is either checking out or losing it on our child, checking out is a more emotionally safe thing to do. That being said, you don't want to not check back in, so it's okay to, like, leave the room, create some space, maybe even look at your phone, take some deep breaths. But then, now that you've disrupted that stress response, can you come back in and engage? So it's not necessarily bad or wrong what you're doing because you're doing what you know that will keep you from exploding. And of course, there's always opportunities to try new things, and the ones that I said are ones that typically work for me, but there's a million ways that we can ground ourselves right. I agree. And the other thing I tell myself is that all of these tantrums, as difficult as they are in the moment, they always end. There's always an ending, and usually it feels a lot longer than it is, just because the crying can be so intense and so triggering. But they always do end. Dr Siggy Cohen, who I adore, she always says the line that your power as your parent is your calm. And I think about that a lot because. Sometimes, you know, our instinct is to not stay calm and to yell or to get excitable and match the child's energy, but it really doesn't serve anybody, particularly ourselves. I find that if I get upset or yell, it only makes me feel guilty afterwards. So that line I really appreciate, and I try to really reinforce that to myself and tell myself that my power is my calm. Everything is going to be better off if I can just stay calm, cool and collected. Yeah, and it's a practice, right? We're going to practice, you know, sometimes we're going to do great, other times it's going to be harder. We're going to learn from it, and then we're going to practice again. But I love this idea. Maybe, in addition to saying like, this is not an emergency, another great phrase that can help us disrupt our stress response is saying this won't last forever. This is just a moment in time. This is just a phase. Absolutely, because it's true. It is absolutely. What's even more true is that whatever is, you know, ruffling your feathers and making you upset with your toddler's behavior right now, or that's just really exhausting, you like, say, your child started waking up at 2am all of a sudden, they hadn't been doing that. Now they are, guess what? Three weeks from now, it's probably gonna be something completely different. In the moment, we're like, oh my gosh, this is forever. This is so hard. But our toddlers are just growing and changing so rapidly every day that whatever is bothering us right now, her toddler, most likely, in three weeks, will be a long forgotten thought. Absolutely I can say that now that my youngest child is almost 10, and I'm past thankfully and not so thankfully, because I do miss those stages, but past the toddler stage, it is really true what they say that. You know, it all goes by very quickly. So keeping that in mind, I think, also helps add some perspective. Okay, so now I want to ask you about toddler standoffs, so to speak. I have a lot of parents that feel very stressed when they're trying to do something for the better of their child, like put their coat on when it's cold outside, or help them brush their teeth or change a dirty diaper, and their toddler flat out refuses and tells them no. How do you advise parents in those situations when we want to do something that we know is the right thing for them, but they're refusing. Yeah, well, I'm glad you asked, because you gave two examples that are really great for me to, like, illustrate, like, the differences between them. Because, yes, as a parent, we want to help our kids. We want to do things that are going to be supportive and helpful, but sometimes, in our quest to be supportive and helpful, we're actually preventing our kids from learning through experience, and we're trying to prevent something from happening right now, if we're trying to prevent our child from being injured, absolutely we need to do that, because it's our job as the adult to keep Our children safe and healthy. So it's non negotiable, right for a kid to be buckled into a car seat like they absolutely just have to, however, when it comes to putting on a coat, for example, this is a great scenario where a child could learn through experience. We might be sitting in a power struggle trying to force them into the coat, but actually, we could just let our child be in charge of their own bodies and how they're feeling. We can bring the coat along with us, and when they get outside and they realize they're cold, then they'll decide to put the coat on, because, again, at this developmental stage, toddlers are craving a sense of control and independence. So when we can let them have that sense of control and independence and make the decision for themselves. We're going to avoid a lot of power struggles, and there's probably not going to be a lot of harm or child not wearing a coat right away. I think you bring up a really important distinction, that when it comes to safety, those are non negotiables. So absolutely, cars are a great example, holding hands when crossing the street, being supervised in the pool. These are all non negotiables, but when it comes to things like refusing to put on their shoes or putting on a coat or brushing their hair, even the best, I think, is when they learn it naturally. They learn, oh, I walked outside without my shoes on, and my feet hurt better. Put my shoes on. That feels better. Or I walked outside without a coat on, I'm okay for now, but thankfully, mommy brought the coat with me. Now I'm cold, and it feels good to have that. Have that coat on me, and so if you learn naturally, that feels a lot better for the child and the parent, because they're learning on their own. We've guided them without having to force them. Yes, it's just reduces so many power struggles, and that's why I dedicated part of the book to talking about natural consequences, logical consequences and arbitrary consequences, so we can kind of learn the difference between the three and know which ones are supportive and how to use them. Gosh, power struggles, and these toddlers, it really is hard for so many parents. Oh my gosh, even myself right as a parent, and that's why I always say, like it takes two people to be in a power struggle, and so it's important to know that if you're waiting on your toddler to get out of the power struggle, you're going to be waiting a long time because they are developmentally wired to push against us as they're becoming their own person for the first time. So we have to find ways to get out of the power struggle without being permissive, leaving. Power Struggle in an empowered way. What is your advice on transition? That's a difficult scenario for parents. Now, certain kids, I think, have an easier time than others, but I was talking to a mom yesterday, for example, and she's really struggling with her kid. Even when she gives her kid Five Minute Warnings, 10 Minute Warnings, he still has a lot of trouble transitioning from a fun event to another event, or specifically, she was telling me, when she turns off the TV, he really, really has difficulty. So what is your advice for kids that struggle with transitions? Oh my gosh. Well, so many things. First, kids do not have a really great sense of time at this age, so saying five minutes doesn't mean a lot. So using a visual timer, that's like a sand timer, or another type of visual timer that's set for five minutes can be super helpful using a transition object. So if you're trying to leave the house and your toddler's happily playing, you're going to avoid a power struggle. When you say, Oh, wow, you're having so much fun playing with your cars, look at how you set them up, and it's time to leave. Let's grab this bag and you put the cars you want to bring in this bag, and we'll bring them with us. So now you're meeting your child where they're at, and then you're helping them with the transition by bringing a transition object, you know, even if it's like to the bathtub, put the cars, like, on the bathroom counter. Oh, they're gonna watch you take a bath. They're here, you know, and looking for ways like that. I like that a lot, because by bringing a bag with you, the fun isn't ending, you're continuing the party. Yes, yes. So this is helpful for getting out of the house or like transitions within the home when it comes to screens, specifically, sometimes kids have a really hard time, and you might pause it five minutes before it ends and say, Hey, there's only five more minutes. And you might watch the last five minutes with your child, so you're already bringing them out of that like TV realm back to the present moment by sitting with them. That can make the transition easier. And sometimes kids just need to be seen and heard. I've had clients who say, I know you want to keep watching bluey. You wish that you could just watch bluey all day long, and then just pause, sit there, see what your child has to say. And sometimes kids will all of a sudden, like, exhale and go, Yeah, I wish I could and like, they'll walk away or turn off the TV, you know, like, sometimes kids just want to feel seen, heard and understood, but we rush the connection piece so it doesn't have time to work its magic. I think that sounds like really solid advice for kids, that the parents sit down with them before they turn off the TV, that they get ample warning time. I also honestly find that sometimes just avoiding the TV altogether can be a better answer, because it's so addictive for kids, certain kids in particular, that, yes, it's so nice because there's common quiet in the house while they're watching the TV, but dealing with the consequences after you turn it off can be so difficult that sometimes I think it's just not worth it. Definitely, if you find that it's hard every time you try to turn off a screen, it might be a sign that screens are too much for your child. And I have a whole chapter on my book devoted to screen time that actually can show you how to test going screen free in your home to seeing if that makes a difference, because I've had clients who have had really big power struggles around screens decide to go screen free, and then have come back to me after three weeks and said, Devin, this is the child I always longed to have, or wish I had, or I always thought was in there, but I've never seen because We've just been using screens since they were nine months old, and I didn't know this was possible, and getting rid of screens for three weeks has completely changed how their child interacts with the world, and then their relationship with their child has a result amazing. Thank you. Okay, now I love how you talk about in your book that toddler behavior is communication. So along those lines, how would you apply that when kids are doing behaviors that we really don't like seeing, like biting, hitting, yelling, how in those situations would you say that behavior is their form of communication? So what I like to say, first of all, is that when you have an infant, infants communicate with us by crying. They don't really have any other way to communicate their needs, right? They either are not crying or they're crying, so that's really what they have. And then you have a toddler on your hands. They still cry, but now they've matured physically, and now they're able to use their bodies to communicate more. So they might hit, kick, throw, bite, trying to communicate. And then you have an older toddler. Those are ones and two year olds. Older toddlers, three and four year olds, they still gonna cry, some still use their bodies, but now they have a better command of expressive language, and they're gonna say things like, you're not my favorite anymore. I don't like you. You're a mean mommy. They're going to say these things now it doesn't mean that. Literally, that's what it is. What they're saying is, I don't like that you said, No, I'm frustrated that we can't go to the park. I'm mad that we're not having cookies right now. But they communicate the best way they know how. So knowing that all behaviors communication and what it's communicating our needs, like sensory needs, developmental needs and basic needs, feelings and emotions. Then once we know that, we can start to say to ourselves, instead of saying what punishment Does my child need to have better behavior or to learn a lesson, we can say, What skill or support Does my child need to be successful here? Because you have to know that toddlers have very immature brains and they lack a lot of impulse control and life experience. So when they are having these meltdowns about like the red plate or the blue plate or leaving the park, what they're really doing is saying I'm frustrated because I'm not in control here, because they're so developmentally driven to have a sense of control. I also think it's interesting developmentally toddlers, what they understand and what they're thinking is way more advanced than what they're able to articulate with words. So I read that a lot of times they can understand, you know, 30 times more than the words that they can say, and even upwards of that. So I like thinking of it as, what if you yourself were dropped off in a country where you did not speak the language and you had to figure out how to get from point A to point B, or how to get yourself lunch to eat? It would be a very, very frustrating experience. You couple that with a toddler who doesn't have the emotional maturity to handle life's frustrations, of course, they're going to have a meltdown, and I think when they do things like bite or hit, that's a very quick way to get a response from somebody. Absolutely. What I try to remind parents is they're not doing it out of malice. They're not doing it because they want to hurt somebody. They're just doing it because that's how they get a reaction and a response well, because most behavior is really trying to get their needs met right, and a lot of behavior is strategic in trying to get those needs met the best way they know how. And I just love that you said this about can understand more than they can say. This is probably one of the most important points of parents, especially with one to two year olds, because I always have parents saying, Okay, I hear what you're saying. But is that really for my one year old, like they're not talking yet. But here's the thing, they're understanding so much more than what we think. And so yes, they may not be able to respond, but we can still say the words, and they're going to understand most of it, and we're setting up like the habit of communication, so when they can talk to us, then that habits are going to be set up on both sides. It's so funny that you mentioned the red plate versus the blue plate, because I totally forgot about this. But my kids used to fight over a plate that had an elephant on it. I need to remind them of that later, but yeah, fighting over the color of plates. It's a very common scenario in homes. But you're right. I think it makes sense that the toddlers are just looking for some sort of control in their life, and there's not a whole lot that they can control when they're two years old. It's so true. Now, what about the kids that chronically say no? So you talked about offering choices. Do you have any other advice for for kids that say no, because I know that that can feel very frustrating for parents. Oh, so frustrating. First of all, one thing you might want to look at is, how often are you saying no to your toddler? Because toddlers are really great mirrors that reflect things back to us. And so yes, they're developmentally wired to say no. And if we're saying no every five seconds, they're just going to keep pushing back against us and saying no all the time. Now, what I would love to ask you, do you have any helpful pieces of advice for parents whose kids are having behavioral challenges, like any big picture advice that you think would benefit parents to hear from you? Yeah, well, it was really important to me, for me to in my book, include this idea of having behavior red flags, because so often parents were wondering like, is this normal? Should I get more help here? And first of all, you have to listen to your intuition. So if you think that something isn't right, or something is atypical, or going out with your child that seems off, you absolutely should bring it up to your pediatrician. And you know, while it's typical for toddlers to have tantrums during toddlerhood, if you find that your toddler is just having one tantrum after another all day long, it's important to look into what could this be? What? What could be the explanation here? Because sometimes, if your toddler is having very aggressive tantrums, several tantrums a day that where it's like they never fully get out of the upset, they never get back to their emotional equilibrium, and then they're just off to the next tantrum. This could mean that there's something else going on, and so you want to talk again to your pediatrician, or maybe to a pediatric occupational therapist that specializes. In the sensory system, and so can be challenging to differentiate between typical behaviors and when behaviors have become more than that, and you got to listen to your gut. That's great advice. So now I'm reflecting myself when my kids were going through those difficult toddler years, and I'm thinking if I could go back in time and talk to myself when I was raising my younger kids, what advice would I have like to hear? And I thought I would share some advice, and maybe, if you know, I'd love to go back and forth and hear what your advice would be, yes, but one thing that I think is really helpful is having a community, I think, getting together with other parents that have kids of similar ages that really, really helped make the toddler years a lot more fun. So I think, for anybody listening, if you feel like you're alone, I encourage you to reach out to, you know, toddler groups, whether it be online or ideally, I think in person, getting together with another mom or another group of parents at a park, it makes the park so much more fun when you're with other people. Yes, and don't be afraid to talk to people. I was actually at a coffee shop yesterday, and I didn't have my toddler with me, but there were several toddler parents there, and, you know, I chatted with them. And I think, like you know, there's a lot of opportunities to meet like minded individuals, if we look for it absolutely but yes, I can't emphasize that enough that finding a community, it's the saving grace. I think I really feel like it makes a difficult period into a fun time, if you can find a group and a community to spend time with, especially in those younger years. The other thing that I find really helpful with toddlers in particular is getting them out of the house. I think all too often, parents, I don't know if we just feel lazy or there's a lot of inertia to get kids out of the house, but once you do, and you get them, especially out into nature, I think that is really, really good for all of us. I feel like the kids get their energy out, they have a good time when they're outside. I mean, I find so many toddlers, one of their first words is outside, and I think that's because they just thrive when they're outside. So that's another thing that I would encourage parents to keep in mind, is get your kids out of the house. I agree. I mean, and out of the house when he was an infant and just crying so much, that was one of the only things that calmed him down, was getting outside in our backyard. It's amazing. They say nature makes the best mobiles. Yeah, I love that. This is also why my son's in a forest school, preschool, because he's outside in nature all day long. It's just so helpful for him a forest school, preschool, I love that so much. Yeah, it's really great. Is the idea he's outdoors all day, yeah? So it's only three hours a day, three days a week, but they're outside in all types of weather exploring. They have a cute little classroom built in the forest, and they're out there on hikes and exploring the pond and the creek and all the things in between. Oh, he must love it so much. It's the best. I love that you're doing that that sounds ideal. So parents, if you're listening and you're looking for a school, make sure there's plenty outdoor time. I think that is so important for kids. And the other thing that I was thinking, if I could talk to my younger self, it would be just a big reminder that all of this is temporary, that the stages don't last forever, and trying to enjoy what you can out of it, because you will one day look back at pictures and miss a lot of those moments, even though there were a lot of tantrums and difficult behavioral moments. I couldn't agree more with that, and I think that it's hard to stay stay focused on the bigger picture when we're in the heat of the moment. And so just remembering that this doesn't last forever, that the days are long, the years are short, it's important to really try to bring that perspective back when we feel like we're just getting sucked into the emotional roller coaster. Emotional roller coaster is a great way to put it. Now, is there any other advice that you'd like to offer to parents as they move through the toddler years that you think would be helpful for them to hear from you? Yeah, absolutely. In addition to the things that you said, I think the biggest thing that I would love parents to walk away with and to think about is just remember that you are human being, and so is your child. And so Humans inherently are going to make mistakes that does not make you bad or wrong. So your child does not need a perfect parent. They do not need a robot as a parent. All of the challenging moments are opportunities for learning and growth, and so when we're willing to learn alongside our child and not have all the answers, that's where the beauty happens. That's where all the love and connection and vulnerability happens. So just know that you are a good parent. You're allowed to make mistakes and learn from them. You're allowed to repair the relationship whenever you lose your cool and practice what you're going to do next time, and your child is also a human being with very little life experience and a very immature brain, and you're all just doing the best that you can. So just continue giving yourself compassion and remembering that indeed, everyone is just human. I love that we're. Reminder so much, I will tell you probably not a day goes by at work where I don't hear from a parent that they're experiencing some feelings of guilt as to how they're parenting their kids. So I think that is such a helpful reminder. Kids don't need perfect parents. There's no such thing. Nobody is perfect. But I think trusting your intuition and trying to do your best, giving your kids love that's really all we can hope for. I agree. So now tell everybody about your book. Plug your online community, where can people learn more from you and find more about transforming toddlerhood? Yes, well, first of all, so my book is available on Amazon and everywhere the books are sold. It comes out October 21 and you can also go to transforming toddlerhood.com to learn more about the book. And if you're pre ordering, get access to lots of great goodies. The other thing that I want to say is that this book is broken down into five different sections, the toddler parent, the toddler, explain, the social toddler, the emotional toddler and the physical toddler. And to make it super easy to find the answers you need when you need them. And the best place to find me and interact with me on a daily basis is on Instagram at transforming toddlerhood. And soon I'll be reopening my parenting community in there where everyone can learn all of the developmentally smart parenting tools that will help you make parenting easier, amazing, and you're almost at a million followers Correct? Yes, we're going to have to celebrate when that happens. That's a worthy milestone. Thank you. I'm so excited. Well, congratulations to you on your book, on your following and on becoming a mother, and I'm so excited for all of your success. And thank you so much for taking the time to come on your child as normal. It's been a it's been a really fun, fun conversation. So thank you. Thank you so much for having me again. Thank you so much for listening to your child as normal. I'm so grateful you're here and part of this community. If you're enjoying this podcast, it would mean the world if you shared an episode with a friend, subscribe and left a five star review, and don't forget to follow me on Instagram at ask Dr Jessica for parenting tips and updates. See you next Monday. You.