Ep 226: Raising Kids Without the Pressure: Feeding, Milestones, and Language Development with Jordan Koveleski Gorman

In this episode, Dr. Jessica Hochman speaks with Jordan Koveleski Gorman, pediatric speech pathologist, feeding specialist, and founder of Eat Play Say, a platform that helps millions of parents support their children’s development through practical, realistic strategies.

Jordan shares why feeding has become such a stressful topic for parents — and how we can shift away from comparison and perfection. She explains the difference between food preferences and feeding problems, how parents can help kids expand their diets, and simple ways to move babies from purees to more textured foods.

They also discuss developmental milestones — how to interpret them without panic, when to seek extra support, and how everyday routines can naturally support language development.

Key Takeaways

• Why picky eating is often normal
 • The difference between food preferences and feeding problems
 • Easy ways to introduce new textures to babies
 • How milestones should be used as a guide — not a source of anxiety
 • Simple routines that naturally support language development
 • Why parents don’t need fancy toys to support development

Resources 

Jordan Koveleski Gorman – Eat Play Say

Instagram @eatplaysay

Free resources for parents
 https://eatplaysay.com/handbooks

Your Child is Normal is the trusted podcast for parents, pediatricians, and child health experts who want smart, nuanced conversations about raising healthy, resilient kids. Hosted by Dr. Jessica Hochman — a board-certified practicing pediatrician — the show combines evidence-based medicine, expert interviews, and real-world parenting advice to help listeners navigate everything from sleep struggles to mental health, nutrition, screen time, and more.

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Transcript

Unknown: 0:00

Hi everybody. Welcome back to your child is normal. I'm your host, Dr Jessica Hochman, so today I'm joined by Jordan Kovaleski Gorman. And Jordan is a speech pathologist, a feeding specialist and the founder of eat, play safe, an online platform that helps parents navigate feeding milestones, play and early communication. Jordan has become an incredible resource for families. Her work now reaches millions of parents every month, and families in over 100 countries have downloaded her resources. What I really appreciate about what Jordan's doing is that she's really focused on the things that are most stressful in the early years, like feeding milestones and language development. And the advice that she shares is practical, realistic and doesn't require buying a bunch of expensive products. I think parents will really appreciate Jordan's advice on how parents can support their child's development at home. Thank you so much for listening to your child as normal. And if you could take a moment and leave a five star review from wherever it is you listen to podcasts, I would be so appreciative. Reviews are what help others find this podcast, which in turn allows the podcast to continue to grow. Now onto my conversation with Jordan Kovaleski Gorman, founder of eat, play say. Gordon Kovaleski, Gorman, thank you so much for being here. Thanks for having me. I'm so excited. So you're just telling me about your great news, your upcoming news, will you share with the audience what that is? Yes, I'm welcoming my third baby in March. I'm nervous, but I'm excited, and all the things I have, all the emotions about three kids. You have three kids, right? I do have three kids. It's the best. My patients will affirm that this is true, but I am constantly recommending a third kid for anybody that's on the fence. I'm glad we went for it, and I feel like the ride is just gonna get Wilder. It's a beautiful thing. You're already in the chaos, so why not add more to the chaos? And then as they get older, things get easier, they play together, and I find nobody regrets having that extra kid. I love this. This is such great advice, because you hear so many like crazy things about adding more to the mix. So I love the positivity. Thank you. It's so true. Maybe it's the pediatrician to me, but I genuinely believe it's the best so in addition to being a mom of almost three kids, you have built quite a career on the social media landscape, on the online world. Tell everybody what that is, yeah. So before I started eat place a I was a pediatric speech pathologist, feeding specialist. Had my dream job. Then I had my my first child, Paul, and I was like, Wait a second, I have another dream of being a mom. So I started sharing on social media about feeding techniques, early speech and language, and realized how many people I could reach on social media and do the good side of social media. So e place a was born, started to grow over the last few years, and I have a whole team of pediatric experts, and we reach millions of parents every month. It's great. So I want to ask you a little bit more about this, because it's fascinating to me. There are so many social media accounts, and yours has really blown up. Tell me why you think that is was there a certain lane that you went down that you feel like resonated with more parents? Or why do you think your page is connecting with so many parents. Yeah, the feedback I've gotten definitely is the relatability factor. Like, not only am I sharing the tips, but the practicality of just trying to do them when you are a parent, when you're a working parent, when you are sleep deprived, when you're struggling with motor delays. Both of my kids have struggled with motor delays, so just the practical strategies and tips and trying to relate to other parents like this is hard. How you're feeling is so valid. Here's what I recommend as a professional, but here's what I understand as a parent. So it sounds like the gap that you found was you were resonating with the difficulty that parents experience with having new kids, but you're also giving them direction, and you're giving them guidance and education on how they can make that stress alleviated. Yes, exactly. I'm trying not to get in the fear mongery space of social media, and instead, I mean, I remember being a clinician before I had kids, thinking, this is the way things go. We have to follow the book. And then you become a parent, and you're like, that book's thrown out the window. There's so much gray area and nuance, and it's important to bring light to that. And by the way, after perusing your page, that is what I really appreciate about the work that you're doing, is that you've recognized that there's not one way to do things. There are multiple ways to raise healthy kids. And I think that's really invaluable for parents, because you can look on the social media space and see a perfectly designed meal, for example, in a bento box, and think that's the right way to do it, and that you have to do it that way. But that's so far from the truth. There are many, many ways to feed a baby in a healthy manner exactly. We're so focused on the right way that we forget to recognize too, that there's really no wrong way either. There's just the way that's best for you. So what I love about your work is that you're focusing on the early years of raising kids. So tell me, why do you think the early years really matter? I feel like their brains, first of all, baby's brains, toddlers brains are so plastic, they're learning everything. Saying they're becoming who they are. They're learning things like confidence, things we can't even see or measure. They are becoming little adults by the time they're like, three or four years old, and we are shaping them in literally every single thing that we do, whether it's a planned activity or just how we're speaking to them in life. So I think it's really important to talk about these years, how we can support little ones to hit their milestones, but also how we can help them figure out who they are. It's really cool to see their little brains work and become actual people. It's crazy. I agree. I think for onlookers, before they have kids, I find that there's some curiosity about why are parents so interested in young kids. They're a lot of work. They have tantrums. But then what I notice with parents is that once they're in it and their parents, little kids are so fascinating, just watching them develop at such a rapid pace, seeing how when they're born and they can't really do anything, you know, when they're first born, they can't see anything. They can barely lift their heads. They barely open their eyes. And then, fast forward a year later, and they're saying a couple of words usually, and they have a personality. I find it endlessly fascinating. Yes, I agree. I think the early years are very, very important. They are. I love them so much. Every day is exciting, challenging, but exciting. I agree. I agree. Okay, so now I'm curious, how did you come up with the name eat place a that's so funny. My mom actually came up with it. We're at the kitchen table. My parents and my close friends call me Jay and as a feeding specialist. And, SLP, the things I do are play eat and help kids talk. So she was like, What about eat? Play say, with Jay. I was like, I think let's just drop the J off and we can do eat, play, say, pretty self explanatory. I checked to make sure there was no other business name with that in the state of Pennsylvania, and I was like, sold. Let's open up an LLC. And it's just become so much fun. A lot of people actually read my business name on Instagram as eat, play, slay, because slay is, like a very common word. Over 50% of my followers at one point thought that that was my actual name, really, it was a missed business opportunity. Clearly, as a parent of a teenager, I definitely think slay is a it's a good word, but I think you play say, sounds great. Thank I've listened to you on a few podcasts, and I thought would be what could be really helpful for my listeners, to get to know you, and to get to know what you do and get to know a bit about you, is to go through each eat, play and say category, and go through some common concerns that I hear and some tips that you may offer. If that's okay, yeah, I love that organization. Let's do it all right, okay, so the first thing is about eating, and I have to say, feeding is one of the biggest stressors that I hear about as a pediatrician, which I find really interesting, because we live in Atlanta plenty there's certainly no lack of food around us, but it causes so much stress for parents. They have so many questions. So my first question to you is, why do you think that is? Why do you think feeding causes so many worries for parents? Yeah, I think largely to blame is honestly social media the comparison game of being able to compare your child to millions of other parents who are feeding their children, which, 20 years ago, we didn't have that. We didn't have access to what anyone else was eating, maybe other than a cousin or a neighbor friend. But now we see these perfectly curated dishes on social media. This kid's eating a hamburger, this kid's eating purees. This kid isn't iron deficient, but this kid is, and it just consumes you. So that's one thing I try to do on my page, is direct parents to focus on what is working for them and try to drown out all of that noise, because it really is noisy. I completely agree with you. I'm always reminding myself that saying that comparison is a thief of joy, because I think it's so true, and ever more true in this age of social media, where everything looks so perfectly curated and it looks like every kid is eating the perfect balance of fruits and vegetables and legumes, which, as you and I both know, isn't reality exactly. I think we also just have, there's so much information which is good, but also can be too overwhelming and too much. So if you had your heart set on baby led weaning, but your kid was like, Absolutely not. I don't really want to sell feed right away. You have to pivot. But you think that something is wrong, but it's really not. And same with you, who started with purees, but you see someone else is starting with baby led weaning. Both ways are right. There's things we should know about both ways, but they're both right. Absolutely, absolutely. I think it's a paradox, because we live in this age, which is wonderful of having plentiful information. If we want to find something, for example, tips on how to have your kid eat broccoli better, you can Google it, and I'm sure there's plenty to find on YouTube, but at the same time, all of that information can also lead to stress. But I'm curious, if you find this, I also find that there's something I believe innate within parents where we want to see our kids eat. It feels very satisfying to see your child eat a meal or have a good meal. And I find a lot of parents are very stressed when their kids gray. On a meal or don't eat a full meal. And I know that's normal, you know, very normal for kids to have a great dinner, for example, and the next day they might not eat as well. And I find that that can also throw parents off and cause some stress. Yeah, you know, my take on this has a lot to do with how feeding and sleep have been really intertwined, especially on social media. Have you noticed that too, where it's like they need a full belly in order to sleep through the night. And our society is also very obsessed with with sleep, just as much as they're obsessed with feeding. Those are the two big stressors, right? Yes, so if we think that they ate enough and they have a full belly, we think we're going to get that full eight to 12 hours without them waking up or we're praying, but we feel like, oh, they didn't sleep through the night because they didn't eat enough. Didn't eat enough. And that's not always true, but those two stressors play off of each other. Unfortunately, I agree with you that those are two very common stressors for parents, so you've got some great tips that I wanted to ask you about, and I thought I'd bring up some concerns that I commonly hear from parents and see what your take on it would be, if that's okay. So the first is a classic concern I hear from parents, I would say, almost daily, is the parent who is concerned because their child only eats pasta, chicken nuggets and goldfish? How would you respond to a parent who says that to you? Yeah, I would say, first of all, you're not alone. It's common, and I think a lot of parents need education on the differences between food preferences and food problems. So like, if your child has preferences, but they have a large variety of preferences across the food groups, typically not something to be overly concerned about. It's okay. Your little one likes chicken nuggets. I love pizza. I'd probably eat it every day if it was allowed. Or if, if I, if I realized I wouldn't have issues otherwise. But I love pizza. I completely agree with you. It's a great food. So it makes sense that they want to eat those foods. Those those foods bring them joy. There's also, you know, they may want to eat those foods right now, but in six months, they're going to have a completely separate favorite food. So I try to tell parents, if you're ever concerned about food in any regard, the first thing I want you to do is just get your little one in the kitchen and have them help you prepare whatever you're making. Don't have them try to eat it. Just have them help you prepare it. The more you expose them to other foods, the more likely they are to naturally increase their repertoire of foods. And it's fun, so just take that first little step and know the odds are in your favor too, that likely there's nothing really wrong. They just likely have food preferences. I completely agree. I found that the more I get in the kitchen and have my kids join me, not only is it a fun bonding experience, but the kids are more likely to try it because it's something that they've participated in they have skin in the game. They helped, and they're way more likely to want to try it, enjoy it, and even share it with others. So I completely agree that involving kids in the kitchen is a win, win. Yes, for sure. My one kid's favorite food my oldest right now, he likes to eat raw eggplant only because I gave him a cookie cutter to cut out the pieces of the eggplant, and he thought it was hilarious, and he dips it and eats it like what? But he never would have had that exposure if I didn't give him some kitchen tools and what I had in the pantry that was ready to cut up and go. So the world is your oyster. Just let them play with the food. And I don't know if you've heard of this concept called stacking, where there's so many things that we feel pressured to do and get done in our day, exercise, spend time with your family, eat well, be productive. If you can put some of those things together, it can make your life easier. So when you cook with your children that is stacking, in some ways, because you're spending quality time together, you're getting the meal ready to go, you're focused on eating a healthier diet. So for so many reasons, I think get your kids in the kitchen. That's great advice. Love that I do stacking. I love it. I'm always at the gym with a podcast on Yeah, how many things can I do at once? That's motherhood, exactly. God forbid. We should just relax and what is that? Not allowed? Not allowed. Okay, so I want to expand more on this. I love the concept that you bring up talking about the difference between food preferences and a feeding problem, because this is definitely a concern that I hear all the time from parents. Classic examples are, is it okay that my kid doesn't like milk? Is it okay that my kid doesn't eat broccoli? Is it okay that the only fruit that they touch will be a berry? So there's so many times that I hear from parents that kids have narrower palettes. Can you explain more the difference between having a food preference versus a food problem? Sure. So I always like to tell parents that there's really no one food or drink on the market that has the only combination of nutrients that your little one can get. So like, milk is great, but it's not the only source of calcium and vitamin D. Berries are great, but they're not the only source. Of antioxidants and all of those vitamins. So if your little one has eliminated certain foods or won't touch a certain food, you just have to think, are they able to get these nutrients from another food? Likely, yes. Do they eat those other foods? If they eat a few of them, I really wouldn't worry about it. It's really where you get like they eat no foods that have high iron, no foods that have calcium, then you're a little bit concerned about how that could nutritionally impact them. Long term supplementation might be needed, and that's where you should really be talking, right with your pediatrician, about what you can be doing. But that's kind of a good way to look at it, like, what nutrients are they getting from what foods, and are they hitting all of them? Because they might be I always think about beans, for example, if you eat beans, you're going to hit most of the nutrition that you need from one food. There's iron, there's calcium, there's fiber. So it doesn't have to be 25 different fruits and vegetables over the span of a week, you can just hit a few foods and get most of what your child needs. Yes, I know, I think that, especially with babies going into toddlers and that whole like, 100 foods before one and all of that. I always ask a parent, do you think you eat 100 foods? No, I do not. I tried to write it down the one day, and, you know, I'm like, I got to, like, 55 max. And I was like, I don't think I eat anything else, but I eat things that hit all the food groups. In fact, I think most adults don't eat a ton of variety, if you really think about it, and neither should we expect our children to Right exactly and think about culturally. Culturally, you might not even be exposed to certain foods that would be on that 100 food list or something. So while it's great to expose your little one to those foods, we don't have to think that they have to eat all of those foods, because we don't hold ourselves to that standard either. You know, what I think a lot about is a documentary by Dan Buettner where he looks at the Blue Zones. It's on Netflix. It's great. It's he looks at this man named Dan Buettner traveled the world, and he honed in on five areas where there's the highest percentage of people that live past 100 years old. Oh, I've heard of this. Okay. And he looked at what is it about their lifestyle that might explain why they're so likely to to have a life of not only long years, but also quality years. And there was one community in particular that I found interesting. They ate a lot of sweet potatoes and beans. And sweet potatoes and beans are not expensive, they're not hard to come by. They're pretty simple, and that was the base of their diet, and that's what I'm looking for. I want to know, How can I live a long quality life? It showed that it doesn't have to be fancy foods. It can be very simple, high quality foods that don't cost a lot, sweet potatoes and beans, all right, two of my favorites. I'm going to have them tonight, so yay. Hopefully that adds some time. But you know what I mean? Like, you don't have to be eating $5 raspberries. No, you don't. Honestly, simple is best, right now, we're actually working on a resource about, like, at home fast food, like, what can you make in five minutes that hits fat, protein and carbs? Because we don't have time, they are the simplest combinations, but they work the best. They're the best. Okay, that was actually my next question. I wanted to ask you about those healthy fast foods. I'd love to hear a couple of examples. And where is it on your website? Yeah, so we haven't launched it yet. I'm hoping to launch it by the end of January. I've been testing it out and making sure people actually want it, and the response has been great. My husband is actually he loves to cook as a pastime, so he has been toddler testing all of these five to 15 minute creations with both my kids, and one of the recipes that we're the most proud of is crepes. If your kid hates eggs, crepes, you can make them in five minutes, and they get at least an egg or two in their diet on the pan, and then you can add whatever you want, nut butter, cream cheese, drizzle it in honey or maple syrup. So we've just been coming up with these fun especially in the morning when you have to get out the door. Fast Food, banana Sandies, which is bananas and nut butter, fun yogurt and fruit parfaits, dippers like fruit dipped in Greek yogurt dipped in different nut butters, using ricotta as a mixer so you can get some fat and protein in. We have so much fun with it in the morning, because my kids wake up and they're like, I'm hungry, and I'm like, I gotta pee. Give me a minute. I think this is going to be a success, because this is what a lot of parents are looking for. You want to feed your children healthy, but the reality is, who has a ton of time to cook three big meals a day for your kids, so something fast, easy, healthy. I certainly can't wait to be on your mailing list and follow those recipes. Yeah, tell your husband thank you to keep working on it. I will. We call him chef Eric. Chef Eric created this today. Well, that's really exciting. Another common concern I hear from parents is they're not sure how to progress with food textures. So let's say around eight, nine months, a child has mastered feeding purees, and the parents uncertain about how to move on from that puree to a more textured food. So what is your advice to parents on how to and how they can advance their foods? Yeah, this is a common concern and a common question. Question from parents. We actually have a whole resource on our website called Moving past purees, because so many parents get stuck on purees. So you can check that out on E place a.com/handbooks my two biggest tips, because usually it comes from a little bit of fear. Parents are a little concerned, rightly so, about giving your little one a chewable food. The first thing I would do is go to your pantry, find any fruit that's like, overly ripe, take a fork, mash it down so it's not fully puree, but it's soft enough where they can probably just mash it a little bit, banana and over ripe. Those are the ones that I would pick for parents. The second thing you can do is take the puree they already eat and get a dissolvable, solid cracker puff, sprinkle the crumbs inside of it so it now becomes a little crunchy, but it will naturally dissolve in their mouth. So it's not actually a chewable food yet, and see how they do with it. They're likely going to do fine with it. And then you can slowly move up into giving them a really ripe banana to hold that once it goes in their mouth, will mash down. And you can slowly move up the texture hierarchy as you and baby feel comfortable. That's a great explanation. You also mentioned food chaining, which I had never heard about, that was new to me. Can you explain what food chaining is in a practical way? Yeah. So that's really more for toddlers that have developed their preferences and you're trying to get to new foods. So let's say a family meal that you guys like to eat is chicken parm, breaded chicken, but he'll only eat chicken nuggets, or he'll only eat bready crackers. How can you food chain? How can you get from one food to the other? So breading your own chicken, where it's super, super crispy with your little one to get them to get to chicken parm, then they eat cheese with that chicken, or they just eat cheese by itself. Then they play with dipping sauce, like the marinara sauce that goes on top. And little by little by little, you get them from the food that they would only eat this dino nugget, but now they'll eat some chicken parm, because little by little, you took the characteristics of chicken parm and made them closer and closer and closer to the dino nuggets. So literally, just taking baby steps, exactly, finding one thing about the food that they like that matches the food you want to get to, and slowly chaining one step closer to the other food. I have to tell you what I like about your general approach to helping children eat food and progress and eat in a healthy way is that I appreciate that you're not fear mongering, but you also give practical advice. So thank you for being that resource. Oh, I appreciate it. Thank you. All right, so I would love to next ask you about the next step in the eat, play, say play, because I find that milestones can be really confusing and anxiety provoking for parents. And I know we had mentioned this earlier, but how can you help parents interpret milestones without feeling anxiety, without feeling panic? Yeah, the first thing I always want to tell parents is that if your little one has not hit a certain milestone, it does not mean that they are delayed. If you're looking at a milestone checklist and they haven't checked one, maybe even two of the boxes does not mean that they are delayed, that you need to immediately jump into an evaluation or freak out. What it does mean is that those areas maybe just need a little bit more support from you at home. And again, I like to talk about the odds. The odds are in your favor that if you offer that support at home and try to work towards those goals, you will reach them without needing formal intervention. The odds are always in your favor for that. A lot of times, milestones are skipped or missed or something, just because parents aren't aware of them. And that's okay. It's not anyone's fault. There's a lot, there's a lot of little check boxes in all the different areas, but if you offer that exposure a few times, the odds again are likely that they're going to catch on and they're going to eventually hit that milestone. And I think What's tricky about milestones is that they're meant to be a guide, and they're meant to be a topic you can bring up with your pediatrician just to make sure that your kid is doing okay. But what I think is true, and you've mentioned this is a lot of it is looking at the whole child. And I think what's so great about what you offer is you give tips for things that parents can be proactive with their children at home. And just because you're delayed in one area certainly does not mean your child is not going to be hitting those milestones at some point and thriving Exactly. And I think we're also, just as a society, so concerned about a label like so concerned about something following a child through like my son had torticollis and a flat spot and had to wear a helmet. My daughter had body tension and a retained reflex where she didn't crawl or stand or walk on time. They're both thriving toddlers, and because I recognize from the milestone checklist that, hey, I needed a little bit more support, and I was in that small percentage that needed just six months of therapy. There's a little bit more support, but there's nothing wrong with that. And I think going back to social media normalizing that I shared those journeys with parents like, you're not alone. It's not your fault. The fact that you're trying to do something about it. When you recognize that your little one needs help is the best. Thing that you can do for your child if you end up in that circumstance, but you might not, if you just offer some more support at home too I think worrying too much isn't going to get you anywhere. Like my friend's grandpa always says, worrying is like being in a rocking chair. You can go back and forth, but it doesn't take you anywhere. But I think it could be really helpful if you can recognize where your child may benefit from support and being proactive and being helpful. That's the sweet spot. I think that's where you can provide a lot of good for your children, yes, and I think mentally as well, for the parent, you're like, Okay, I'm educated. I know what I'm looking out for. I know how to help my child at home, and I also know the signs of, hey, I may need a little bit of extra help. When you have all of those pieces of education, you feel calm, you feel supported, and it's not so scary to look at a milestone checklist because you're equipped with all the tools you need to get through it, if you need to get help or not. That brings me to the wonderful resource that you've created, the toddler playbook. Can you explain that to parents, and what will they find with the toddler playbook? Yeah, so we have three playbooks, the infant playbook, the toddler playbook, one for one year olds, and the toddler playbook, two for two year olds, because we center on birth to three, and all of the milestones that your little one needs to meet in all of those years, and the milestone checklist is there, and then all of the activities you can do at home in a pinch that required no toys to help your little one meet those milestones. They're side by side. They're really fun, things like using painters tape or making a obstacle course to help with crawling over objects. They're super simple. They're low cost. Families in over 100 countries have downloaded them, which is pretty amazing, and they just bring that awareness to parents of what's the milestones, how to help your little one get there? And they're just fun. Can I tell you, when I saw the mission of the toddler playbook, and that it doesn't require buying anything? I am so sold on this, because the marketing world makes parents feel like they need so much, and you could spend all your money on so many things for young kids. So thank you so much for providing this. I think what a useful resource for so many parents. Yes, thank you. I mean, as a consumer myself, if I were to buy a resource that tells me all the answers, but then tells me a list of things I need to buy along with that resource, I'd be like, I got fooled. I got fooled. And toys are great, but I always hit this home that you are your child's best toy. You as the parent, and you can do so much with what you already have at home. Buying more things is never the answer. Getting more educated is and by the way, having a third kid that's going to be your first two kids best source of entertainment, seriously, and I have bought zero things for this child, by the way. I mean, we have so many books, all the things. I'm like, I'm not buying anything. I feel so bad. There's endless gadgets. You can get the bottle warmers, you can get the wipes that warm. You can get all the different size nipples for feeding the bottles. I mean, you could go on and on and on and spend all your money on baby gadgets. So I really like that you created something that doesn't cost extra money for families, but can be very helpful and proactive for them to work with their kids at home. Yes, for sure. Thank you. All right, so then now I'd love to talk about say you're a speech and language pathologist, so I love that you framed language not as just acquiring more words and acquiring milestones, but actually thinking about it as a social tool for our kids. So explain more about that. What does that mean for parents? Yeah. So going back to the milestone checklist, right at the first year, at 12 months of age, we expect one true word, and I think that parents get really caught up in like a word bank for their child. Like, what do they know? They know dog, they know cat, they know this. But we know that the whole reason why we have words is to socially communicate, is to be able to interact with other people. So while yes, having a word bank of words is great, I'm more concerned about can your little one tell you when they're upset, either through body language, sign language or verbally? Can they tell you when they want something? Can they socially communicate? Kind of how they're feeling even high and by those things are really important. Because if we have words, that's great, but if we can't communicate and socially use them, what's the point of having all of those words? Other than this is a dog, this is a cat. The kids aren't a dictionary. They're social beings. I love that. You say that you say that as a speech and language pathologist, because it's very easy for all of us to focus on counting specific words. It's fun, but it can also be stressful. So I like that you're thinking about the bigger picture. Yeah, I think we look at things objectively too much, even back to food, how many ounces did they drink? How many bites did they take out a meal? How many words do they have that we miss the subjective, which is so much fun and really where connection and growth and communication and relationships with our little ones thrives in that subjective. And I completely agree with this, because right now I have a 1012, and 15 year old, and they can communicate, they can walk and talk. They've hit all those milestones. We're way past. Ask that. And now I look back, and I think back that I really wish I had focused more on just enjoying the journey, enjoying my time with them, and just having that belief that they were going to be okay, that they were going to acquire those skills. Because I think if you can really believe that, then, rather than spending time worrying about your kids and worrying about them achieving those milestones, I do agree that if you can step back and look at the bigger picture, it can really help you enjoy your parenting experience. I really believe, yeah, I agree 100% I always like asking speech therapists, do you have any tips for parents that they can use on a day to day to help their kids acquire more language or to help with communication? Yeah, I want to reassure parents that if you're listening to this, you do not need to carve out specific time to sit down and do play time, but all you have to do is focus on your routines, the things you do every day, opening and closing the dishwasher, unloading it and loading it, the laundry, cleaning up toys, changing a poopy diaper, whatever you're doing, adding that repetitive same language every single time you do those routines is literally enough for littles to catch on and start to learn those really important functional words. Include them in what you're doing in your everyday stack right? That's stacking right there exactly. Stack your little one on top of what you're doing and add language on top. And that's really all you need to do. It can be that simple. Don't overthink it, which is easier said than done. And I would just add on as a just as a cherry on top to what you're saying. I encourage parents to add some silliness to all of those routines. Have fun with parenting, let the kid and you come out. Because I think a lot of us parents were too serious. It's just too serious of a world. And what's so great about being around kids and being influenced by kids is you can take things a little less seriously, and kids are such a great reminder to have a little more fun with life. I love that. I'm gonna start using that. I'll give you credit. I love that. I definitely like being around kids. Kids are definitely the best influence. I would love to end with just a few lightning round questions, if that's okay, yeah, just first thing that comes to your mind. So the first question for you, what is one thing that parents can stress less about? In your opinion, the amount of time that you are actually spending playing and talking to your child, don't even worry about that. Don't stress about it. You are talking and playing with them way more than you even think that you are. Because again, play is literally everywhere. So please do not be stressing about the quantity of time you are spending. One thing that kids need more of than we think. They need more validation. I think that we overlook how just letting our little ones know that we see them or we hear them, even when they're babies, when they're crying, yes, I hear you. I see you. I'm going to help you, even if they don't stop crying. I always equate it to imagine if you walked in from the day talking to your partner, and you say, I'm just really not feeling well today, and they said something to you, like it's not that big of a deal, you need to suck it up. You would feel horrible. So your two year old, who's crying about something that maybe you don't think is that big of a deal, is really just seeking a little bit of validation. So I always try to step back and go, I need to validate this. I need to validate this, because I want to be validated, too. It's so true. I think a lot of us can jump to wanting to fix problems. We want to do this in our adult life with our friends. We want to do this with our kids, but being validated, I think, is the most important first step, and honestly, it can often be the only thing you have to do. So I agree with you, when your kids are having a tantrum and we want to jump in and fix it and stop it, thinking about validating them and just making them feel seen can go a really long way, and oftentimes it's the only thing we have to do. Agree, a mental myth that you'd love to debunk. Ooh, oh, this is a good one, that if your little one stays on a bottle past 12 to 15 months, that you're ruining them because you're not bottles and pacifiers have become the most fear mongering things on the internet, and we really need to chill, because they are nuanced topics. And I just want to let anybody know that if their kid is on a bottle longer than 12 to 15 months and they need more time to get off of it, that is okay, and you are absolutely not harming your child by supporting them through this really difficult and hard transition. Jordan, I have to admit, I was on a bottle tell about two years old, and my palate, I believe, is okay, and I think my speech is okay. I think so I don't know. Maybe we might need to do a formal eval. I'm just kidding. And then the last one is, where can families find you and eat place a? Yeah. So our biggest presence is obviously on social media, on Instagram, at eat place a, you can also go to our website, eat place a.com, we have 12 freebies. You can download tons of them, crafts, play, themes, things for newborns, for new moms, post. Part of meals, like we have it all. You can join our newsletter as well. I send out a Sunday email, every email about real life, things that are just happening in parenthood. But yeah, those are the places you can find me. And you have a whole team. Correct? It's not just you. You have a PT, OT, yep, registered dietitian, two lactation consultants, and then I have some other moms who are helping me behind the scenes just run the business. So we're literally a bunch of moms working together trying to make the world a better place. Oh, and can you I'd love you to brag a little bit like, how many families have you reached and how many downloads? Because it's pretty impressive. Yeah. So our email list is almost 40,000 people that we talk to every weekend. Families in over 100 countries have purchased our resources. We're doing consults with families all over the world. We just booked one today for a family in India that needs some help. We also provide one on one counsel and on Instagram. Each week, we're reaching about 10 million families. So that's pretty cool. The numbers are wild when you really take a look at them, and I just love you started in 20, and you started in 2021, started in 2021 yes, the end of 2021 so yeah, the business is for you incredible. So it's great. And I love that we just have a great community at E place, a and just trying to support each other and show the good side of what social media can be. I think it's really incredible what you've done in four years. And personally, I'm so happy that there's a resource out there that I can refer families to it that isn't trying to make anybody worry. You're just there to give good information and good guidance. So keep growing, and I can't wait to keep following what you're doing. Oh, thank you so much. I had so much fun chatting with you. You've been great. Thank you for listening, and I hope you enjoyed this week's episode of your child is normal. Also, if you could take a moment and leave a five star review wherever it is. You listen to podcasts, I would greatly appreciate it. It really makes a difference to help this podcast grow. You can also follow me on Instagram at ask Dr Jessica.