Ep 240: Play First: Why Fun Is One of the Best Parenting Tools We Have w/ Dr. Kim Van Dusen

In this episode, therapist and play therapy expert Dr. Kim Van Dusen explains why play may be one of the most powerful parenting tools we have: play strengthens parent-child relationships, reduces power struggles, supports emotional regulation, encourages independence, and helps children learn important life skills.

She shares practical ways to incorporate play into everyday routines, including chores, homework, transitions, mealtimes, and even those moments when parents are completely exhausted.

We also discuss the importance of independent play, why boredom can be beneficial, and how families can create more connection and joy without spending more money or adding more activities to their schedules.

Whether you have toddlers, school-age children, or teens, this episode offers simple strategies to make family life feel a little lighter and a lot more fun.

Learn more about Dr. Kim Van Dusen and her book at TheParentologist.com.

Your Child is Normal is the trusted podcast for parents, pediatricians, and child health experts who want smart, nuanced conversations about raising healthy, resilient kids. Hosted by Dr. Jessica Hochman — a board-certified practicing pediatrician — the show combines evidence-based medicine, expert interviews, and real-world parenting advice to help listeners navigate everything from sleep struggles to mental health, nutrition, screen time, and more.

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Transcript

Unknown: 0:03

Hi everybody, welcome back to Your Child is Normal. I'm your host, Dr. Jessica Hochman. So, today's guest is Dr. Kim Van Dusen, and we're discussing her new book,

Parenting Through Play: 0:11

Creative Strategies for Building Better Behavior, Deeper Connection, and Positive Communication. Now, while play may sound simple, Dr. Van Dusen explains why it's actually one of the most powerful tools we have for connecting with our children. Now, as adults, we connect through conversation, but for children, play is their language. Through play, kids communicate, express emotions, and build relationships, and many parents want to feel as connected as possible to their children, but aren't always sure how to make this happen in the midst of busy lives. So, this conversation offers practical, approachable ideas for bringing more play into everyday life, and in doing so, strengthening our relationships with our kids. I love this conversation, and I think you will too. And if you're enjoying your child as normal, I'd be so grateful if you would leave a rating and a review. It helps more people find the podcast and supports our mission of helping families learn more and worry less. Now, let's get started with Dr. Kim Van Dusen. Dr. Kim Van Duzon, thank you so much for being here. Thanks for having me. I'm happy to be here. So, you wrote a book about play, and just to get us started, I would love to know what was your inspiration to write a book about play. I learned about play therapy when I was getting my doctorate, when I was in grad school, and the second I took my first play therapy class, I fell in love, and so I continued with that program, and eventually became certified and credentialed as a play therapist, and I've worked with children ever since, for almost 20 years now, and then I became a mom, and I started implementing those things in my personal life as well, and so now I want to bring my therapy room into the homes of other parents out there, and it's just been something that I know is effective and works, and so I'm happy to share it. And I'm curious, when you became a play therapist, what was it about it that grabbed your attention? I don't even know if I can even pinpoint it, to be honest. I think I just fell in love with it because it just was fun, it was lighthearted, and it didn't make everything so serious. I completely agree with you. I find, as a pediatrician, I can connect so much better with kids if I remember to use elements of play in the room. If I'm looking in their ears and I can add in, oh, are we finding a princess today? If I'm looking in their mouth and I find Mickey Mouse, whatever it may be, I try to change it up with every kid so it's not the same, but if I can add an element of fun during the checkup or during a sick exam, I can see that it really helps my connection with the child. Yeah, and it's about trust and safety, and going to the doctor can be very stressful for children, can be very anxiety provoking, and making it fun like that, using play to connect with them, and that's really what the book is about, using parents and how to connect through play, and it can just be with those small micro playful play pockets, really. Sometimes it sounds daunting to feel like, oh, my child has to play with me, and I just have to sit on the floor and have this active dialog with them, and it doesn't have to be like that. So, I think that you can just add a playful sentence to doing a chore, doing their homework, doing a medical exam, all those things that we're talking about, just so it takes those little moments that we say in everyday life. Yes, and there's a few things that I really liked about your book that I would love to talk about, because I think that your approach and your tips make the idea of play more realistic for parents, and it makes it more tangible. So, the first thing I wanted to ask you about was this idea that play can feel a lot for parents, so the idea of sitting on the floor with them might hurt your back, it might feel uncomfortable. It can feel like a lot to have to, quote unquote, play with your kids, and I feel a little guilty admitting that, but it's true. And what I like about your book is you offer some good tips to make play feel easier on the parent. So, would you mind sharing some of those tips with people listening? Yeah, absolutely. Like I said, it's just sometimes just take a little modification in how you approach your child, the language that you use, the words that you say, the actions that you take. If your child's not responding to you saying something that they need to do, clean up their toys or eat a certain meal or whatever it is, if you make it playful and more fun, then they're more likely to respond to it. So, let's say you're trying to get your children to clean their toys, or even clean the stairs. I know that's something that I deal with a lot in my home, and my kids are like, "Oh, I've left notes on the stairs, and they'll step over it to get upstairs. It's like things on the stairs don't exist, and I'm like, "No, these to be cleaned up, but nothing I've done works until all of a sudden I put my play therapist hat on and I said, okay, let's make this fun for them, and so I made it into like this big basketball game, so they would stand at the top of the stairs and I would stand at the bottom or vice versa, and then we would just throw it up the stairs, and you make it into a game, you make it fun, and I love that you're a pediatrician, so one thing I mentioned in the book is if you're exhausted and this is one of those days you're completely overwhelmed, completely overstimulated, and you're just cannot wait to go to bed, and your child's begging you to play with them. Get out your play medical kit, and they can take your blood pressure, they can use a stethoscope, and listen to your heartbeat, they can do all those pretend play things, but you just get to lay on the couch, and you get to relax, you're the patient, and they're taking care of you, but again, it goes down to that. Trust, and that safety of they are able to accomplish that trust with you, so when you do actually need them to do something, they're more likely to respond to you, because you've already created that safe space for them. So, basically, what I'm hearing you say is, if there's anything that your kids are resisting you with, whether it be doing chores, cleaning up, getting something done, if we can think about a way to make it more playful, you're more likely to get the response that you want from them. Absolutely, and I know that sometimes it can sound a little daunting of, "I'll have to make every interaction a playful one. That can sound daunting to parents, but I think that if you can look through parenting through that playful lens, it will actually be much more peaceful in your home, I think you'll have less power struggles, less tantrums, all those things once you just make that shift. It's a lot easier than people think it's going to be. And the other thing that you just touched upon is how much time it feels like playing with your kids would have to take. You know, I might imagine playing with my kids to be an afternoon activity, but you're saying it could just be a few minutes, and it can go a long way, and I think that point is really helpful to hear. It doesn't have to be a whole big shebang, it can just be a few minutes, and just a few minutes of playtime with your kid can be enough to feel that connection. Yeah, have a two-minute dance party to their favorite song, run around the kitchen island, or have a little race back and forth in the backyard if you have one, and I think a lot of times parents will say, well, get your homework done first, and then you can play, or get your chores done first, and then you can play, because play is essentially the reward. Well, really, that should shift, and it should be literally play should come first, and then you're going to get compliance from your child, right? If you play first and say, okay, now that play is done, now that we've had our fun, and again, just a few minutes is all it takes, now let's do your homework, or now let's do your chores, or now let's go have dinner, or whatever it is, and it'll make your job so much easier, and it'll be more fun, and your kids will probably actually eat their meal if you do even just little things like that. What I hear you saying is, as a parent, we can use play to our advantage, we can use it to help us with the routines, with chores, with transitions, and in that sense, when you think about it that way, play benefits parents, and it does, and play has so many benefits to our mental health as parents, because it also helps regulate us, it reduces our anxiety, it reduces our stress, and we may not want to do it, but when we do, it will actually not only give us a better connection with our kids, but it also helps our wellness and our mental health, physically and emotionally, be less stressed. I feel as a parent that's a win. Yes, less stress, a win. Absolutely. And the other thing that you brought up in your book that I thought was a good point to talk about is the idea that play doesn't have to be expensive, because I think that can also be something that puts parents off when it comes to play, thinking that you have to go to a toy store and spend a lot of money on a doll or on a new Lego set, or whatever is trending, and you brought up a great point that it doesn't have to be expensive, no, not at all. And lots of times all it takes is a box and some markers or some tape. I don't know why kids love tape so much, but they love tape. Give them a roll of tape, you know, wherever you get your deliveries from. Save those boxes, put them in the corner of the garage, and then bring out every once on your kids say they're bored. Just bring out some markers in that box, and they can make it into a rocket ship, or do an indoor scavenger hunt. Take a few minutes, write down five to 10 things that they can find in the house: a spoon, a stuffed animal, a ball, whatever it is that gets them moving, and they're gonna have fun. It's gonna be a game. They go on the scavenger around the house, and it's just stuff that you already have. They're not really playing with the items they're finding, necessarily. The fun is in the game in itself, and kids just love it. No. And even just a stick. Yes, I feel bad because a lot of parents will tell kids to put their sticks down, but I think if you can teach a kid how to use a stick safely, kids love using sticks, and that's free. Elements in nature don't cost anything. Yeah, exactly. I mean, all those things don't cost anything, and it can keep kids busy for actually a very long time. My mother-in-law has a good idea. She has toys for the kids, but she only puts out one or two toys at a time, and then the rest are hidden, and she'll rotate what toys the kids are exposed to. I think it's really smart, because instead of laying everything out where it feels overwhelming, and then the kids inevitably feel bored by the toys, just by having one or two choices at a time, the kids feel like there's always something new for them to play with. Absolutely, especially at birthdays and holidays, where maybe children get a lot of gifts at once is yes, setting some aside for later and not opening them all at once, because, like you said, there'll be some novelty to that, and just minimizing that, I think, helps just keep things in order, just less anxiety provoking when you have left less toys. Anyway, another tip I wanted to mention that I loved from your book, with regards to making play more enjoyable for the parent and the child is the idea that we can have our kids use their imagination and play with things that we like too. So, your example about having a spa day with your child and having them pretend to be a masseuse or a manicurist or something that you actually like doing too, I think that's a brilliant suggestion, because then it's fun for everybody. Yes, it. Exactly, my daughter, she's 12 now, but she loves doing spa days with me, even to this day. I can't remember the first time she did it, but it was years ago, and she saw that I was stressed and I was tired, I was exhausted, and she said,"How about a spa day, mom? And so I said, "Great, okay. So she turned the lights out, shut the curtains a little bit, she put on some spa music, she had me cut some cucumbers out, so I could put some on my eyes, and I just got to lay there while she took care of me, and it was so relaxing. It's just fun. It's fun for everybody. So, I think we did a good job talking about how parents can try to play more with their kids and enjoy it. I'd love to ask you now about kids playing on their own, because this is something that I also find is a really important and valuable skill for kids to learn how to do, how to play independently. So, can you tell me first, why does independent play matter for children? I think the independence in play helps create a sense of autonomy for children, a sense of agency. It helps them learn problem-solving skills, critical thinking skills, it really creates and cultivates that imagination, that creativity, and I think they need that independence to be able to learn those life skills, so when they grow up, they're able to make decisions on their own. So there's, there's definitely benefit to playing with our kids, but there's times where parents need a moment, and those are great times for kids to practice a lot of those skills on their own, you can still be in the same room with them. I do this with my son all the time, and he'll want to draw something, and he'll say, "What should I draw, Mom? and it's like, "Hey, draw a turtle, and then he'll draw a turtle, but I'm still doing what I need to do, but simultaneously he's quote unquote playing near me, not with me per se. I think you can also get things done where they're creating things for you through their blocks or whatever it is they're playing, where you can still maybe recharge if you need to, or get something done just with them playing on their own, per se. Thank you for this reminder, because that's something I definitely think I need to be better at, is getting some tools out and supplies out ahead of time, so that when I ask my kids to play on their own TV, isn't what they want to do. I can just picture it, that if I put some supplies out ahead of time, I'll have a much easier time keeping them off the screens. Yeah, and they like it too. A lot of times, my kids will say, I'll say, okay, no TV, it's a screen-free day, and they're like, oh, one of those days again, but I'm like, but here's all the things you can do, and then if they forget about it, they don't actually want to do that, but it's like that's their last resort. So, once you make that list, that's usually what they'll choose to do first. I really like how you mentioned that play and the benefits of play are actually evidence-based, and you had some really nice quotes in your book. I'll read one of them. You said Vanderburg in 1985 wrote that play is quote the main feature of what it means to be human to me, that really resonated with me, because thinking about that, that the main feature of what it means to be human is to play, it's a lot more important than I think a lot of us give it credit for. Absolutely, and that's the hill that I will die on, because I feel like play is so undervalued, I think. Once parents become a certain age, they think it's not socially acceptable to play, even as a parent, even with a parent with a young child, it's not acceptable to do, and anyone out there is hesitant to play, which there's been a lot of pushback from parents. A lot of my clients will say, "Oh, that's not for me, and they dismiss it before they even try it, but once they get it, it really is the essence of our life, you know. That's another quote in the book that I talk about from a previous author from many, many decades ago, that wrote about how play is the essence of life. To me, play is the essence of parenting. It's so rewarding to do for us as the parent and for our child. There was an article I quote in the book from the Journal of Pediatrics that talks about how the lack of play and the lack of independent play specifically is affecting our children's mental health, and it's become this epidemic that schools aren't getting enough of it, recess is getting cut short, and a lot of times we're not getting it at home either, because we're inundated with after school activities and all the other things that's on our to-do list, that play becomes the last resort when really it should be first, and if it is first, then it really does cultivate a better sense of connection in the home, more peacefulness. All those things come into play, but it's just convincing parents that it really is so beneficial on so many levels, and really give their whole heart for it, and change their mindset, and they think it's really going to change parents' lives. I'm actually convinced that playing actually keeps you younger. Oh, 100% I think everybody can think about somebody as they get older, becomes a little more curmudgeony, and I think if you can keep play as part of your essence, as part of your personality, you are more youthful. Oh, 100% I think 1,000% 10,000% Can you tell me, what does the research show about play? What does it support emotionally? Does it show anything about our attachment, how we learn? What does the evidence actually show about benefits of play? Yeah, all those things you just mentioned, just in the way children conceptualize the world. Old, the life they live in, the decisions they make, is if they learn it through play, they're much more apt to remember it. So, let's say you're giving them a task, whether it's something that they're learning how to do the first time or something they have to do again that isn't preferred. If they learn it through play, they will most likely remember that, and they'll be able to implement it more in the future. So, when it comes to the evidence-based part of it, research has shown that when a child learns and uses the language of play, it helps them with their emotionality, it helps lower stress, it honestly helps physical health as well, mental health, emotional health, learning how to communicate better, learning social skills again, critical thinking skills, problem-solving skills, all through play. And when parents and children work together in a play environment, research has shown that it helps cultivate a healthier connection, a deeper connection, and they respond to it so well. And that's the thing I think that adults, when they connect, they connect through talking, they connect through. Hi, how are you? What are your interests? What do we have in common? When kids connect, they connect through play. When a child sees another child at the park, they say, 'Do you want to play? or they just start playing with them. They don't need to talk to that other child, they just start playing in the sand with them at the beach, or whatever it is, you know, whatever game they're playing, they just hop in and start playing tag with them. That's how kids connect. They connect through play. So, when a parent is trying to talk to their kids about whatever it is, the kids are going to push back on that, because that's not their language of choice. They are going to connect through play. So, if a parent can start seeing that and connecting with their child through play instead of through talk, then they're going to get a lot further with their relationship, and they're going to get a lot more compliance in the meantime, and better behavior, I'm flashing on watching Snoopy as a kid, where the kids would talk with each other, but when the adults talked, it was like wah wah wah, they didn't really hear anything that the adults were saying, because it wasn't their language. Yes, so yeah, it's true that you have their own way of speaking. Absolutely, and I was also just thinking about a time when my teenage daughter was annoyed at me, and I felt bad because I was trying to connect with her. She was clearly annoyed at me and trying to break that cycle. And a friend of mine gave me great advice. She said, "Just do something silly in front of her. So we were walking together in public. We were at a mall, and there was a patch of grass, and I just went in front of her and did a somersault, and it was so ridiculous to be out in public and to do a move like that, she just started laughing at me, and that, that broke her annoyance, that broke the spell. And so I do agree that throwing in bits of silliness and play definitely, I know the research supports it, but I can say from my own personal experience, it definitely helps family relations. Oh yeah, it's silly, and it's playful, and it will at least break it to where at least those inhibitions come down, the cortisol levels go down a little bit, and then the stress goes down, and then you can say, okay, now, especially if they're a teenager, okay, now we can talk, now we can chat. It doesn't have to be so serious, and it's beautiful to see that. I love that you just shared that. I do really believe that kids make us better humans, being around kids, they remind us that life isn't so serious, that things don't have to be so serious, absolutely, and I do think children are the best reminders of that. So, now before we end, I thought, if it's okay with you, I wanted to do a lightning round of questions to finish up the interview. Can I ask you some questions? Yeah, let's do it. All right, first thing that comes to your mind, you ready? Okay. Your favorite quick play idea? Oh, I love puppets. Anything to do with puppets and stuffed animals, specifically, but puppets even worth just make things so much more fun. You can do a lot with them. How do you play when you're tired? I know we talked about, oh yeah, the spa day is a good one. Sometimes I just tell my kids to put on a fashion show for me. I can sit on my bed or sit on the couch, and then they do dress up, you sit back and relax while they do all the work. I love it. Brilliant. Thank you. What's the best way to turn a meltdown into something playful? Oh, okay. One of my favorite interventions that comes to mind first is getting one of those colorful sand timers that you can get for really less than $5 on Amazon, and when a child's in the middle of having a meltdown or a tantrum, you just say, okay, here's your five-minute timer, and you can tell them tantrum as much as you want in the next five minutes, yell, scream, you can cry, you can mope, you can pout, whatever it is, for five minutes, but when the timer is up, we're gonna go into the next activity, we're gonna go to the grocery store, we're gonna play a board game, or whatever it is, so you give them that time, and usually they don't even need that five minutes, because they feel so silly doing it after a few minutes, they're like, okay, I'm done, let's go play, or let's go have a snack, or whatever it is, I'm gonna invest in a timer. They will save parents' lives, I'm telling you. All right, playing with older kids, what actually works? Any board game or card game that you can play with them, Legos, anything where you can tangibly do something that's cognitively taking their mind away from the conversation, because a lot of times they don't want to talk, and keeping the conversation short, and then distracting them with the game, the play activity will cultivate a better conversation with each other, because they're so involved with the game and the building of the bricks that you can talk to them and start connecting with them while you're playing, but they're more likely to divulge because they're being. Distracted by the actual play activity. Great, yeah. My teens respond really well to puzzles. Oh, yeah, puzzles work too. They work really well. Absolutely. Okay. Dancing, yes or always? Yes, always yes. Yeah, dance parties can solve a lot of things, and they're fun, and you get to connect through music. There's so many things that, as a mom, there's so much music that I have loved growing up, and introducing that to my kids is really fun too. And movement helps the body, movement is medicine, so it's just dancing is all around, yes, all the time, as much as you can do it. I agree, in our house, it's an always yes. We do a lot of blind karaoke. I don't know if you've ever heard of that game, but we put a song behind our heads, and you have to, you have to try to sing the song, you have to try to do karaoke to it. It never fails to be a great time. I love all those types of activities, which just brings everyone together, and you have fun, and it's just, it's lighthearted. So, it's that's a great one. I agree. Okay, so Dr. Kim Van Dusen, can you please tell everybody, where can they find your fantastic book? I'm holding it up right here. Where is it available, and how can they find it? So, it's available on Amazon. It's available in Barnes and Noble. If you go to my website, theparentologist.com I have a whole place of five different places you can buy it from, but it's available everywhere where books are sold. That's very exciting. Congratulations. Thank you so much.