WCC Special Episode: Transformational Leadership, Building Systems That Empower People and Protect Nature.

How do we move beyond small, isolated conservation projects to protect nature at scale?

This special episode of 4Nature, made for the IUCN World Conservation Congress 2025, explores what transformational leadership looks like in practice. Host David Meyers speaks with two trailblazing leaders—Kathleen Fitzgerald, Project Director for Enduring Earth, and Vatosoa Rakotondrazafy, Regional Ocean Governance Manager for IUCN—who are reimagining how conservation can empower communities and achieve durable, system-wide impact.

Kathleen shares how the Project Finance for Permanence (PFP) model brings together governments, funders, and Indigenous Peoples and Local Communities around long-term conservation goals. She highlights how Indigenous-led PFPs in Canada are setting a new global standard for inclusive, lasting protection.

From the ocean’s edge, Vatosoa recounts her journey leading Madagascar’s Mihari Network and building a Western Indian Ocean alliance for Locally Managed Marine Areas (LMMAs). She emphasizes that the traditional knowledge of small-scale fishers—“a PhD in the ocean”—must guide conservation, supported by tools like LMMA trust funds that channel resources directly to communities.

Together, their stories reveal how humility, persistence, and local leadership can transform conservation from short-term projects into resilient systems that work for both people and nature.

Transcript

4Nature Podcast: Transformational Leadership — Building Systems That Empower People and Protect Nature

Recorded for the IUCN World Conservation Congress

David Meyers:

Welcome to a special episode of the 4Nature podcast. I’m David Meyers, your host today. This episode—Transformational Leadership: Building Systems That Empower People and Protect Nature—was recorded at the IUCN World Conservation Congress.We’re joined by two incredible guests: Kathleen Fitzgerald, Project Director for Enduring Earth at the Pew Charitable Trusts, and Vatosoa Rakotondrazafy, Regional Ocean Governance Manager and IPLC Champion at IUCN. Thank you both for being here.

From Personal Passion to Professional Purpose

David Meyers:

Let’s start with your journeys. How did each of you find your way into conservation? Kathleen, let’s begin with you.

Kathleen Fitzgerald:

Thanks, David. I had what I call an “aha moment.” During university, I spent a month backpacking in the Wind River Range of Wyoming. At that time, I was a French major—but after that experience, I came back to campus and switched to environmental studies.

Later, I spent a semester studying in Kenya through St. Lawrence University, which has a campus in Nairobi. I stayed on to do research on elephants in northern Laikipia, and from then on, I knew conservation would be my life’s work.

David Meyers:

Wonderful story. And Vatosoa, how about you?

Vatosoa Rakotondrazafy:

For me, it wasn’t planned at all. As a child, I wanted to be a lawyer to defend the rights of poor and marginalized people. But I didn’t pass the law exam at university, so I studied geography and conservation instead.

When I saw that the Mihari Network in Madagascar was recruiting to defend the rights of small-scale fishers, I thought, “This is my dream job.” It combined justice, community empowerment, and conservation. I joined Mihari, and I’ve never looked back.

David Meyers:

That’s incredible—two very different paths leading to the same purpose: empowering people and protecting nature.

Transforming Systems: The Enduring Earth Partnership and PFP Model

David Meyers:

Kathleen, you lead work under the Enduring Earth Partnership—a collaboration among Pew, WWF, The Nature Conservancy, and ZOMALAB. Can you explain what that partnership does and how it’s transforming conservation?

Kathleen Fitzgerald:

Sure. Enduring Earth focuses on a financial mechanism called Project Finance for Permanence (PFP). It’s a systems-level approach that brings together governments, Indigenous Peoples, local communities, NGOs, and funders around a shared, long-term vision for conservation.

Instead of short-term projects, PFPs enable durable, large-scale protection across entire landscapes or seascapes. They give practitioners the time and space to plan holistically—for conservation, community development, and climate resilience.

One of the most inspiring examples comes from Indigenous-led PFPs in Canada, where Indigenous communities led the planning from the start. The success of those projects really came from genuine, community-centered leadership—and from funders supporting from behind, not directing from above.

Scaling Up Community-Led Conservation: The LMMA Alliance

David Meyers:

Vatosoa, your work has evolved from local marine areas in Madagascar to a regional Western Indian Ocean LMMA Alliance. How did that growth happen, and how do you keep communities at the center?

Vatosoa Rakotondrazafy:

My time at Mihari was my university—it’s where I learned humility, local leadership, and how to truly listen. I always say that small-scale fishers have a PhD in the ocean. Their traditional knowledge is irreplaceable.

Now, with IUCN, I’m building the Western Indian Ocean LMMA Alliance based on those same principles: putting communities at the forefront, with NGOs and donors supporting from behind. It’s about scaling up local leadership while staying rooted in community wisdom.

Innovative Finance: Trust Funds and Direct Access

David Meyers:

Let’s talk finance. What innovations are helping locally managed marine areas achieve long-term sustainability?

Vatosoa Rakotondrazafy:

One major focus is creating direct access to funding for communities. Capacity-building is important, but without financial resources, projects can’t take root.

That’s why we’re working to establish an LMMA Trust Fund—a basket mechanism that channels donor and investor funds directly to local groups. We’re also supporting legal recognition of community-led conservation, through OECMs and other frameworks, and integrating traditional knowledge into science and decision-making.

Learning Across Ecosystems: Shared Lessons

David Meyers:

Kathleen, what lessons from the PFP approach resonate with Vatosoa’s work on LMMAs?

Kathleen Fitzgerald:

There are many parallels. In Kenya, for example, the Kenya Wildlife Conservancies Association unites community conservancies to share lessons, build capacity, and influence policy—much like the LMMA networks.

In Canada, Indigenous-led PFPs also built on lessons from the Great Bear Rainforest, showing how peer learning and exchange can strengthen entire systems. The key is collaboration, shared leadership, and scaling what works.

The Core of Transformational Leadership

David Meyers:

Let’s talk about leadership. What drives you both, and what advice would you share with others?

Kathleen Fitzgerald:

For me, it’s commitment—to nature, and to people. You can’t separate conservation from community development. Leadership exists at every level—from global figures like Mia Mottley to women’s cooperatives in Tanzania.

Persistence is essential. Conservation is long-term work, and you need partners and mentors who inspire you to keep going.

Vatosoa Rakotondrazafy:

I completely agree. My driver is always Indigenous Peoples and Local Communities. Leading coalitions is not easy—especially as a young woman—but creativity and innovation keep me motivated.

We need to keep evolving: whether that’s trust funds, storytelling, or new coalitions, it’s about staying responsive and bringing people together.

Engaging the Next Generation

David Meyers:

Vatosoa, you’ve worked closely with youth networks. What innovations are you seeing among younger conservationists?

Vatosoa Rakotondrazafy:

Storytelling is huge—through podcasts, short videos, and creative competitions. In Madagascar, the Natiora Defenders organized an “Ocean Defenders Pitch Contest,” where young people shared poems and stories about the sea in front of ministers and NGOs.

We need more of that—less formal workshops, more creative engagement. Art, music, and storytelling help people connect emotionally with conservation.

David Meyers:

I couldn’t agree more. I once organized a sustainability retreat that combined music, art, and reflection—it was transformative. We should bring that spirit into more global forums.

The Conservation Finance Dilemma: Innovation vs. the Basics

Kathleen Fitzgerald:

Innovation is vital, but we can’t forget the basics—ensuring salaries, planning, and core operations are funded. Only then can organizations be creative and take risks.

David Meyers:

Exactly. The IUCN WCPA Practice Guidance for Protected and Conserved Area Finance, which we recently released, highlights that balance—covering foundational needs while encouraging innovation.

A Vision for the Future: IPLC Fellowships and Radical Collaboration

David Meyers:

As we close, what’s your vision for the future of leadership in conservation?

Vatosoa Rakotondrazafy:

I’d love to see an IPLC Fellowship Program—but one where IPLCs train donors, researchers, and NGOs on how to work with communities. It’s about empathy, transparency, and humility.

We also need youth incubators for nature-based innovation—spaces where young people can build creative conservation startups and see nature as an opportunity, not a barrier.

Kathleen Fitzgerald:

I love that vision. And I’ll add that collaboration—true collaboration—is key. That means setting aside egos and logos, and making space for new leadership to emerge.

We’re seeing promising coalitions, like the new Debt Coalition, where multiple organizations are working together to help countries achieve their conservation goals. If we continue to act with humility and unity, I believe we can achieve incredible things by 2030.

David Meyers:

Beautifully said. Kathleen, Vatosoa—thank you both for your wisdom, leadership, and inspiration. And thank you to everyone listening. Until next time, this is 4Nature.