{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":0.359,"endTime":4.259,"body":"And that's what I"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":0.359,"endTime":4.259,"body":"see as my job. It's not my job"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4.259,"endTime":8.639,"body":"isn't to win. My job is to"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4.259,"endTime":8.639,"body":"connect with humanity through my"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":8.639,"endTime":11.969,"body":"art, like I'm just an instrument"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":8.639,"endTime":11.969,"body":"and then the art has this"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":11.999,"endTime":15.569,"body":"capacity in a way that"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":11.999,"endTime":15.569,"body":"engineering never did. Like any"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":15.569,"endTime":19.559,"body":"other walk I've been in my in my"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":15.569,"endTime":19.559,"body":"life has never been able to"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":19.559,"endTime":23.789,"body":"touch people's hearts as much as"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":19.559,"endTime":23.789,"body":"my art has. And so, for me, if I"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":23.789,"endTime":26.789,"body":"can be the instrument that"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":23.789,"endTime":26.789,"body":"creates that feeling that"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":26.819,"endTime":29.399,"body":"experience that's the definition"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":26.819,"endTime":29.399,"body":"of fine art."},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":30.329,"endTime":32.408,"body":"Welcome to"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":30.329,"endTime":32.408,"body":"the BoldBrush show, where we"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":32.462,"endTime":35.768,"body":"believe that fortune favors the"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":32.462,"endTime":35.768,"body":"bold brush. My name is Arango,"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":35.822,"endTime":39.075,"body":"Baier, and I'm your host. But"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":35.822,"endTime":39.075,"body":"those of you who are new to the"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":39.128,"endTime":42.488,"body":"podcast, we are a podcast that"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":39.128,"endTime":42.488,"body":"covers art marketing techniques,"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":42.541,"endTime":45.688,"body":"and all sorts of business tips"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":42.541,"endTime":45.688,"body":"specifically to help artists"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":45.741,"endTime":48.941,"body":"learn to better sell their work."},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":45.741,"endTime":48.941,"body":"We interview artists at all"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":48.995,"endTime":52.194,"body":"stages of their career, as well"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":48.995,"endTime":52.194,"body":"as others who are in careers"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":52.248,"endTime":55.181,"body":"tied to the art world in order"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":52.248,"endTime":55.181,"body":"to hear their advice and"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":55.234,"endTime":58.434,"body":"insights. For this episode, we"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":55.234,"endTime":58.434,"body":"sat down with Deborah cures a"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":58.488,"endTime":61.047,"body":"realist artist who enjoys"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":58.488,"endTime":61.047,"body":"painting Trompe l'oeil"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":61.101,"endTime":64.247,"body":"miniatures and photo realism"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":61.101,"endTime":64.247,"body":"with a narrative approach. She"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":64.301,"endTime":67.661,"body":"began as a biochemical engineer,"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":64.301,"endTime":67.661,"body":"but never gave up on her dream"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":67.714,"endTime":71.074,"body":"of one day becoming an artist."},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":67.714,"endTime":71.074,"body":"Since her career change, Deborah"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":71.127,"endTime":74.007,"body":"has become an award winning"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":71.127,"endTime":74.007,"body":"member of many prestigious"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":74.06,"endTime":76.78,"body":"artists organizations. And"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":74.06,"endTime":76.78,"body":"recently, she became the"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":76.834,"endTime":80.087,"body":"recipient of the 2022 Best of"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":76.834,"endTime":80.087,"body":"Show George Gray award with the"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":80.14,"endTime":83.393,"body":"Coast Guard art program at the"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":80.14,"endTime":83.393,"body":"salmagundi club. This then led"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":83.447,"endTime":86.593,"body":"to her being invited onto an"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":83.447,"endTime":86.593,"body":"artist's residency out at sea."},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":86.647,"endTime":89.953,"body":"On this episode, we discussed"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":86.647,"endTime":89.953,"body":"your transition from engineer to"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":90.007,"endTime":92.94,"body":"artist the importance of"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":90.007,"endTime":92.94,"body":"focusing on creating beautiful"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":92.993,"endTime":96.033,"body":"work that touches people's"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":92.993,"endTime":96.033,"body":"souls, the benefits of joining"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":96.086,"endTime":99.5,"body":"artists, clubs and organizations"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":96.086,"endTime":99.5,"body":"and to not be afraid to just do"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":99.553,"endTime":101.1,"body":"it. Hi, Deborah, how are you?"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":102.089,"endTime":106.679,"body":"I know, right,"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":102.089,"endTime":106.679,"body":"virtual. Yeah. I was at the"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":106.679,"endTime":110.489,"body":"portrait Conference this past"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":106.679,"endTime":110.489,"body":"weekend. And I don't know I'm a"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":110.489,"endTime":114.029,"body":"hugger. So people who know me"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":110.489,"endTime":114.029,"body":"know to expect it, but I've"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":114.029,"endTime":117.929,"body":"taken a few people off guard"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":114.029,"endTime":117.929,"body":"because everybody is so air"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":117.929,"endTime":120.839,"body":"kissy now that, you know, after"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":117.929,"endTime":120.839,"body":"the pandemic and everything and"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":122.039,"endTime":124.289,"body":"I'm like, I survived it. I'm"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":122.039,"endTime":124.289,"body":"gonna go I'm going in."},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":125.31,"endTime":128.37,"body":"Yeah, that's"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":125.31,"endTime":128.37,"body":"true. I'm also a hugger. So I"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":128.52,"endTime":129.27,"body":"understand."},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":130.169,"endTime":132.419,"body":"But some people"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":130.169,"endTime":132.419,"body":"take a step back. Nice to meet"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":132.419,"endTime":133.679,"body":"you in person, Laura,"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":133.77,"endTime":136.08,"body":"you to"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":133.77,"endTime":136.08,"body":"virtually in person."},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":136.77,"endTime":139.17,"body":"I know. And I love"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":136.77,"endTime":139.17,"body":"your art. Oh,"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":139.2,"endTime":141.36,"body":"thank you so"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":139.2,"endTime":141.36,"body":"much. I love your stew."},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":141.63,"endTime":144.57,"body":"I'm like, I want"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":141.63,"endTime":144.57,"body":"to go to Angel Academy. I want"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":144.57,"endTime":148.35,"body":"to meet John angel. I want to go"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":144.57,"endTime":148.35,"body":"to Grand Central. i The last"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":148.35,"endTime":151.74,"body":"time we were in I was in New"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":148.35,"endTime":151.74,"body":"York for some Gundy thing. And I"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":151.74,"endTime":156.15,"body":"was walking by and I actually"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":151.74,"endTime":156.15,"body":"went to a talk with Mexicans, or"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":156.51,"endTime":161.91,"body":"Mexicans Burgum what was it"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":156.51,"endTime":161.91,"body":"Sunday, or whatever? Saturday,"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":161.97,"endTime":164.85,"body":"but, um, and he's an amazing"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":161.97,"endTime":164.85,"body":"guy. And I'm like, should I stop"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":164.85,"endTime":167.07,"body":"and talk? I'm like, You know"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":164.85,"endTime":167.07,"body":"what, the guy's probably taken a"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":167.07,"endTime":171.45,"body":"break like his Nomi from Adam."},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":167.07,"endTime":171.45,"body":"But it was I went and I toured"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":171.45,"endTime":174.69,"body":"through the facility. You know,"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":171.45,"endTime":174.69,"body":"just I mean, I know, it's small"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":174.69,"endTime":177.39,"body":"enough, but like the student,"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":174.69,"endTime":177.39,"body":"you know, showing that and their"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":177.39,"endTime":179.79,"body":"little story and everything. And"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":177.39,"endTime":179.79,"body":"I'm like, oh, what would it be"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":179.79,"endTime":182.88,"body":"like to be 18? And have done"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":179.79,"endTime":182.88,"body":"this instead of engineering?"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":182.88,"endTime":185.25,"body":"Like, you know, whole? Universe?"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":185.4,"endTime":186.78,"body":"So well,"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":185.4,"endTime":186.78,"body":"that's right. Because you did"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":186.78,"endTime":189.51,"body":"engineering? And that's Yeah,"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":186.78,"endTime":189.51,"body":"that's very different. Yeah,"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":189.54,"endTime":191.58,"body":"very different."},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":189.54,"endTime":191.58,"body":"But I'm excited to hear what"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":191.58,"endTime":195.33,"body":"what's been your most, I don't"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":191.58,"endTime":195.33,"body":"know, challenging, rewarding"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":195.33,"endTime":197.55,"body":"thing you learned the most from"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":195.33,"endTime":197.55,"body":"with all of the stuff you've"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":197.55,"endTime":201.3,"body":"done, and all those sorts of"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":197.55,"endTime":201.3,"body":"waves of, you know, washing up"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":201.3,"endTime":204.33,"body":"on different shores, like where"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":201.3,"endTime":204.33,"body":"was the most thrilling for you,"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":204.39,"endTime":206.25,"body":"you mean,"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":204.39,"endTime":206.25,"body":"like in terms of like, Angel"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":206.25,"endTime":209.85,"body":"Academy versus Grand Central"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":206.25,"endTime":209.85,"body":"versus, like, Odd Nerdrum. Or"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":209.85,"endTime":211.86,"body":"like, or even like"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":209.85,"endTime":211.86,"body":"the BoldBrush You know,"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":211.86,"endTime":213.33,"body":"excursion that this"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":213.42,"endTime":216.93,"body":"this has"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":213.42,"endTime":216.93,"body":"been this has been an exciting"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":216.93,"endTime":219.99,"body":"one. Um, you know what this"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":216.93,"endTime":219.99,"body":"reminds me a lot of like, when I"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":219.99,"endTime":223.2,"body":"was reading about you, and"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":219.99,"endTime":223.2,"body":"reading on your blog and stuff,"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":223.23,"endTime":226.41,"body":"which is like, it's, it's very"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":223.23,"endTime":226.41,"body":"much like that just do it thing"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":226.5,"endTime":229.32,"body":"that you said in your blog post."},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":226.5,"endTime":229.32,"body":"It's yeah, it's really nice."},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":229.32,"endTime":232.77,"body":"It's a what I like about that"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":229.32,"endTime":232.77,"body":"adventure is, it's recent, but I"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":232.77,"endTime":235.44,"body":"can carry it with me, right?"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":232.77,"endTime":235.44,"body":"Like, I'm living in Norway, and"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":235.44,"endTime":238.5,"body":"I'm like, remotely like"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":235.44,"endTime":238.5,"body":"interviewing people. And it's a,"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":238.62,"endTime":243.42,"body":"it's nice, because like, I can"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":238.62,"endTime":243.42,"body":"work remotely. And I also get to"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":243.42,"endTime":246.24,"body":"talk to and connect with other"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":243.42,"endTime":246.24,"body":"artists like you who are"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":246.24,"endTime":249.72,"body":"extremely inspiring. And I'm"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":246.24,"endTime":249.72,"body":"just like, sometimes it makes me"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":249.72,"endTime":252.78,"body":"feel kind of bad, too. Because"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":249.72,"endTime":252.78,"body":"am I doing what am I doing with"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":252.78,"endTime":255.75,"body":"all these people doing amazing"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":252.78,"endTime":255.75,"body":"things. But then I have to like,"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":255.75,"endTime":258.24,"body":"sit, settle myself down and be"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":255.75,"endTime":258.24,"body":"like, Okay, now, I know that"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":258.24,"endTime":261.21,"body":"it's taken them years to do"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":258.24,"endTime":261.21,"body":"that. Well, like"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":261.21,"endTime":262.95,"body":"I said, I was I"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":261.21,"endTime":262.95,"body":"spent the weekend at the"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":262.95,"endTime":265.65,"body":"portrait Society Conference,"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":262.95,"endTime":265.65,"body":"which is just, you know, hop,"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":265.65,"endTime":268.23,"body":"skip and jump from where I live"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":265.65,"endTime":268.23,"body":"in the Northern Virginia area."},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":268.5,"endTime":272.13,"body":"But I'm here like, basically in"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":268.5,"endTime":272.13,"body":"my own neighborhood, and talking"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":272.13,"endTime":275.91,"body":"with James and Jeanette gurney."},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":272.13,"endTime":275.91,"body":"Like, it's nothing right. And"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":275.91,"endTime":280.92,"body":"I'm going I you know, it pinched"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":275.91,"endTime":280.92,"body":"me. And then you know, there's"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":280.92,"endTime":283.62,"body":"all these other people that are"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":280.92,"endTime":283.62,"body":"all around you who you start"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":283.62,"endTime":287.16,"body":"talking with them and you like,"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":283.62,"endTime":287.16,"body":"it's easy to make assumptions,"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":287.16,"endTime":289.59,"body":"because a lot of artists that"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":287.16,"endTime":289.59,"body":"just the way we dress, the way"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":289.59,"endTime":292.02,"body":"we act, the way we're"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":289.59,"endTime":292.02,"body":"introverted and everything you"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":292.02,"endTime":294.54,"body":"never know who you're talking to"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":292.02,"endTime":294.54,"body":"when you go to a group of"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":294.54,"endTime":297.69,"body":"artists like that, right? And so"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":294.54,"endTime":297.69,"body":"this one guy, I was chatting"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":297.69,"endTime":299.85,"body":"with him and I had it in my"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":297.69,"endTime":299.85,"body":"head. I don't know why because"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":299.85,"endTime":302.76,"body":"you Have Jiang I guess that he"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":299.85,"endTime":302.76,"body":"was just you know, starting out"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":302.76,"endTime":305.64,"body":"or whatever. And the question"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":302.76,"endTime":305.64,"body":"was asking and everything. And"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":305.64,"endTime":310.5,"body":"then after we talked, I look and"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":305.64,"endTime":310.5,"body":"I'm like, Okay, so he's going to"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":310.5,"endTime":312.87,"body":"be painting deli pardons father,"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":314.34,"endTime":315.39,"body":"oh my god."},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":316.44,"endTime":319.23,"body":"You just never"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":316.44,"endTime":319.23,"body":"know who you're talking with or"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":319.23,"endTime":322.14,"body":"who like even if you've never"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":319.23,"endTime":322.14,"body":"heard their name before, there"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":322.14,"endTime":325.62,"body":"are so many little rabbit holes"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":322.14,"endTime":325.62,"body":"in the art world that people go"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":325.62,"endTime":329.46,"body":"down and become amazing and"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":325.62,"endTime":329.46,"body":"like, have their own sort of"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":329.46,"endTime":332.61,"body":"notoriety. But then you walk,"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":329.46,"endTime":332.61,"body":"you step back and you like, like"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":332.61,"endTime":335.07,"body":"you and you step back, and you"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":332.61,"endTime":335.07,"body":"go, you know, that just makes it"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":335.07,"endTime":337.56,"body":"so amazing, because that means"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":335.07,"endTime":337.56,"body":"there's so much more opportunity"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":337.56,"endTime":340.38,"body":"than what I'm aware of, right?"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":337.56,"endTime":340.38,"body":"If it's not on Instagram, or"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":340.38,"endTime":343.86,"body":"it's not on Facebook, or it"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":340.38,"endTime":343.86,"body":"doesn't somehow cross my path."},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":343.95,"endTime":347.37,"body":"It doesn't mean it doesn't"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":343.95,"endTime":347.37,"body":"exist. And so it makes me want"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":347.37,"endTime":351.09,"body":"to take more risks and jump into"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":347.37,"endTime":351.09,"body":"more things. And so I literally"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":351.09,"endTime":353.46,"body":"was sitting there after that"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":351.09,"endTime":353.46,"body":"experience, and I'm gone. I'm"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":353.46,"endTime":355.89,"body":"sitting in the lobby, and I'm"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":353.46,"endTime":355.89,"body":"thinking and there was I was"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":355.89,"endTime":358.29,"body":"waiting on some people, and they"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":355.89,"endTime":358.29,"body":"hadn't arrived yet. So I'm like,"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":358.32,"endTime":362.88,"body":"Huh, what is it that I've just"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":358.32,"endTime":362.88,"body":"done that I really enjoy. And I"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":362.91,"endTime":365.31,"body":"really enjoyed this one"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":362.91,"endTime":365.31,"body":"commission that I had, this guy"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":365.31,"endTime":369.21,"body":"found me out of the blue, and it"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":365.31,"endTime":369.21,"body":"was, he had me paint 11 pairs of"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":369.21,"endTime":372.03,"body":"eyeglasses, not like a painting"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":369.21,"endTime":372.03,"body":"of glasses, but he actually had"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":372.03,"endTime":375.6,"body":"me, he collected these vintage"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":372.03,"endTime":375.6,"body":"eyeglasses. And he had me paint"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":375.6,"endTime":379.74,"body":"the lenses of the glasses with"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":375.6,"endTime":379.74,"body":"little miniature paintings. So a"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":379.74,"endTime":383.37,"body":"total of 22 little miniature"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":379.74,"endTime":383.37,"body":"paintings on these eyeglasses,"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":383.4,"endTime":386.25,"body":"he saw that someone had done"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":383.4,"endTime":386.25,"body":"that somewhere, and it inspired"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":386.25,"endTime":388.38,"body":"him. And so he got on the"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":386.25,"endTime":388.38,"body":"internet, look for an artist"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":388.38,"endTime":390.72,"body":"that could do it. And I'm like,"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":388.38,"endTime":390.72,"body":"how does the universe drop these"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":390.72,"endTime":393.12,"body":"things in our lap? You know,"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":390.72,"endTime":393.12,"body":"like, because I think you found"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":393.12,"endTime":396.18,"body":"someone who would do a weird"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":393.12,"endTime":396.18,"body":"commission like that, who can"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":396.18,"endTime":399.27,"body":"paint a non porous surfaces from"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":396.18,"endTime":399.27,"body":"my experience in miniature"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":399.27,"endTime":401.7,"body":"painting, which, you know, under"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":399.27,"endTime":401.7,"body":"a magnifier, because he wanted"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":401.7,"endTime":405.03,"body":"extreme realism, like I ticked"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":401.7,"endTime":405.03,"body":"all the boxes? And I said, Yes,"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":405.03,"endTime":408.24,"body":"but I'm like, Do you know the"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":405.03,"endTime":408.24,"body":"odds of finding the exact person"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":408.24,"endTime":411.06,"body":"who would say yes to this. And"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":408.24,"endTime":411.06,"body":"then I thought about it. And I'm"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":411.06,"endTime":414.21,"body":"like, that was so much fun. And"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":411.06,"endTime":414.21,"body":"it was kind of like, like, when"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":414.21,"endTime":416.97,"body":"someone I imagine I've never"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":414.21,"endTime":416.97,"body":"been a tattoo artists, but when"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":416.97,"endTime":420.3,"body":"I look at these tattoo artists,"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":416.97,"endTime":420.3,"body":"and you're doing art on"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":420.3,"endTime":423.66,"body":"someone's body, I mean, that's"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":420.3,"endTime":423.66,"body":"pretty big commitment right"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":423.66,"endTime":426.93,"body":"there. Right. And so here I am,"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":423.66,"endTime":426.93,"body":"you know, I had to prepare as"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":426.93,"endTime":430.95,"body":"the lenses and so um, you know,"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":426.93,"endTime":430.95,"body":"altering, like, I can never give"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":430.95,"endTime":434.13,"body":"him back those collectible"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":430.95,"endTime":434.13,"body":"glasses in the state that he"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":434.13,"endTime":437.19,"body":"gave them to me. And so it's"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":434.13,"endTime":437.19,"body":"pretty, I'm thinking about like,"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":437.19,"endTime":440.46,"body":"should I have had him signed"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":437.19,"endTime":440.46,"body":"contracts if these get damaged?"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":441.3,"endTime":444.42,"body":"I didn't, but I'm like, I need"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":441.3,"endTime":444.42,"body":"to be smarter about that, you"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":444.42,"endTime":447.57,"body":"know, it all worked out fine. He"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":444.42,"endTime":447.57,"body":"loved him. But I'm thinking that"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":447.57,"endTime":451.41,"body":"kind of that level of working on"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":447.57,"endTime":451.41,"body":"someone's precious, you know,"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":451.41,"endTime":454.89,"body":"keepsake that led me to a bunch"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":451.41,"endTime":454.89,"body":"of conversations this last"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":454.89,"endTime":457.59,"body":"weekend where I'm like, I don't"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":454.89,"endTime":457.59,"body":"know if it'll work out. But I'm"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":457.59,"endTime":460.65,"body":"thinking up a new series, I'm"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":457.59,"endTime":460.65,"body":"gonna start painting on people's"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":460.65,"endTime":464.22,"body":"collectibles, you know, things"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":460.65,"endTime":464.22,"body":"that they, I'm gonna, and then"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":464.22,"endTime":466.47,"body":"it's like, well, how do you"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":464.22,"endTime":466.47,"body":"advertise that you're doing?"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":466.53,"endTime":469.14,"body":"It's so hard to explain? It just"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":466.53,"endTime":469.14,"body":"took me however many minutes to"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":469.14,"endTime":473.76,"body":"explain it to you? Well, I've"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":469.14,"endTime":473.76,"body":"got a whole two shows Kasko"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":473.76,"endTime":477.33,"body":"shelves, a floor to ceiling of"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":473.76,"endTime":477.33,"body":"still life props, I'm going to"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":477.33,"endTime":480.36,"body":"start painting on them and using"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":477.33,"endTime":480.36,"body":"those as example, you know, but"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":480.36,"endTime":483.21,"body":"that whole chain of thought"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":480.36,"endTime":483.21,"body":"wouldn't have happened if I"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":483.21,"endTime":486.87,"body":"hadn't been in the presence of"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":483.21,"endTime":486.87,"body":"all this greatness and all these"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":486.87,"endTime":489.87,"body":"people doing all these amazing"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":486.87,"endTime":489.87,"body":"and risky things that, you know,"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":489.87,"endTime":493.38,"body":"just inspire me all the time. So"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":489.87,"endTime":493.38,"body":"I think it's important. That's a"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":493.38,"endTime":496.95,"body":"long winded way of saying, Yeah,"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":493.38,"endTime":496.95,"body":"I agree with you. It's important"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":496.95,"endTime":500.61,"body":"to get out of your, like comfort"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":496.95,"endTime":500.61,"body":"zone, and just feel that little"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":500.61,"endTime":505.23,"body":"bit of, Am I worthy, you know,"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":500.61,"endTime":505.23,"body":"once in a while, but yes, I"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":505.23,"endTime":508.35,"body":"mean, I do, I've been doing"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":505.23,"endTime":508.35,"body":"these with the ANI art academy"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":508.35,"endTime":511.92,"body":"that I've because I always want"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":508.35,"endTime":511.92,"body":"to be learning so, and I haven't"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":511.92,"endTime":514.74,"body":"gotten had the opportunity in my"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":511.92,"endTime":514.74,"body":"life to go to Angel academy or"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":514.77,"endTime":518.49,"body":"any place, you know, that, I"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":514.77,"endTime":518.49,"body":"would assume would be very"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":518.49,"endTime":522.18,"body":"exciting and a different"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":518.49,"endTime":522.18,"body":"experience. So I currently I"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":522.18,"endTime":526.17,"body":"signed up to be one of the"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":522.18,"endTime":526.17,"body":"remote students with the ANI art"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":526.17,"endTime":529.14,"body":"academies. And so I hanging out"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":526.17,"endTime":529.14,"body":"with that crowd of people and"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":529.14,"endTime":531.54,"body":"just getting so much from"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":529.14,"endTime":531.54,"body":"interacting with all of them,"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":531.57,"endTime":534.3,"body":"just because, you know, this is"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":531.57,"endTime":534.3,"body":"my social life, otherwise, I"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":534.3,"endTime":538.2,"body":"haven't been right. But where"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":534.3,"endTime":538.2,"body":"was I going with this? Now I"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":538.2,"endTime":541.77,"body":"lost my train of thought I was"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":538.2,"endTime":541.77,"body":"gonna say something about how I"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":541.77,"endTime":546.18,"body":"think how analytical you can be"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":541.77,"endTime":546.18,"body":"about things like you can get"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":546.21,"endTime":550.86,"body":"down into the nitty gritty"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":546.21,"endTime":550.86,"body":"details of, you know, varnish,"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":550.86,"endTime":553.92,"body":"or you know, just pick anything,"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":550.86,"endTime":553.92,"body":"right, and you can take it, it's"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":553.92,"endTime":557.13,"body":"amazing to me how you can take"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":553.92,"endTime":557.13,"body":"it into a not just like a three"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":557.13,"endTime":559.86,"body":"hour conversation, but you know,"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":557.13,"endTime":559.86,"body":"three months, and we're still"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":559.86,"endTime":562.56,"body":"talking about the same subject"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":559.86,"endTime":562.56,"body":"or whatever, if you. And so"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":562.56,"endTime":565.02,"body":"that's kind of the cool thing"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":562.56,"endTime":565.02,"body":"about art is you can go as deep"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":565.02,"endTime":568.44,"body":"as you want, and still never get"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":565.02,"endTime":568.44,"body":"to the finish line, right? You"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":568.44,"endTime":572.01,"body":"get to keep on keep on keeping"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":568.44,"endTime":572.01,"body":"on. It's always fun, though, to"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":572.04,"endTime":575.1,"body":"solve a problem, I think and"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":572.04,"endTime":575.1,"body":"that's, you know why in for me,"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":575.1,"endTime":578.22,"body":"I feel like because I had the"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":575.1,"endTime":578.22,"body":"engineering training first."},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":578.46,"endTime":581.19,"body":"That's how I approach my art."},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":578.46,"endTime":581.19,"body":"You know, it's all problem"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":581.19,"endTime":584.13,"body":"solving to me, really. And like"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":581.19,"endTime":584.13,"body":"you're saying, if you don't have"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":584.13,"endTime":586.89,"body":"a problem to solve, it kind of"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":584.13,"endTime":586.89,"body":"gets boring sometimes. Right? If"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":586.89,"endTime":589.74,"body":"you were just doing something"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":586.89,"endTime":589.74,"body":"and it was easy. I don't know. I"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":589.74,"endTime":592.5,"body":"feel like maybe at the end of"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":589.74,"endTime":592.5,"body":"his career, Picasso got that way"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":592.5,"endTime":595.47,"body":"where it was just so simple."},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":592.5,"endTime":595.47,"body":"It's like, maybe that's what"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":595.47,"endTime":598.77,"body":"made people great. They did the"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":595.47,"endTime":598.77,"body":"switch, you know, and created a"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":598.77,"endTime":601.53,"body":"whole new type of of artwork"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":598.77,"endTime":601.53,"body":"because they got bored with what"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":601.53,"endTime":604.47,"body":"they were doing, or I don't"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":601.53,"endTime":604.47,"body":"know, but I'm just guessing."},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":606.21,"endTime":608.7,"body":"Yeah. And I"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":606.21,"endTime":608.7,"body":"think also, I think the other"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":608.7,"endTime":612.3,"body":"issue that maybe Picasso and"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":608.7,"endTime":612.3,"body":"some people have is, it's not"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":612.3,"endTime":615.87,"body":"just like, it becomes too easy,"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":612.3,"endTime":615.87,"body":"but it's also like, when you"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":615.87,"endTime":621.84,"body":"become so important or so"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":615.87,"endTime":621.84,"body":"famous, you suddenly become or"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":621.87,"endTime":627.18,"body":"you're more at risk of painting"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":621.87,"endTime":627.18,"body":"for the crowd, rather than doing"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":627.18,"endTime":630.78,"body":"it for yourself, which was the"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":627.18,"endTime":630.78,"body":"original, you know, birth of why"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":630.78,"endTime":634.23,"body":"you're even doing it, right. So"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":630.78,"endTime":634.23,"body":"I feel like it's a very, that's"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":634.23,"endTime":637.56,"body":"also why I haven't worked with"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":634.23,"endTime":637.56,"body":"galleries yet. Because I worry"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":637.56,"endTime":640.65,"body":"about, like, I feel like"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":637.56,"endTime":640.65,"body":"galleries sometimes. And I"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":640.68,"endTime":642.75,"body":"totally understand it's a"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":640.68,"endTime":642.75,"body":"business to try to make money."},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":643.23,"endTime":645.57,"body":"They know what sells, but I"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":643.23,"endTime":645.57,"body":"think sometimes a lot of artists"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":645.57,"endTime":648.69,"body":"can fall into the trap of"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":645.57,"endTime":648.69,"body":"allowing the gallery to dictate"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":648.72,"endTime":652.53,"body":"what they will be painting. And"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":648.72,"endTime":652.53,"body":"for some people, it works,"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":652.53,"endTime":655.62,"body":"because they do want to paint"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":652.53,"endTime":655.62,"body":"that thing. And then for other"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":655.62,"endTime":658.17,"body":"people, it maybe doesn't work."},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":655.62,"endTime":658.17,"body":"And that's also one of the"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":658.17,"endTime":661.77,"body":"reasons why, you know, I really"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":658.17,"endTime":661.77,"body":"like what FASO and BoldBrush"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":661.77,"endTime":664.8,"body":"does, which is it gives a little"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":661.77,"endTime":664.8,"body":"bit more independence to artists"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":664.83,"endTime":667.08,"body":"who don't want to work with a"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":664.83,"endTime":667.08,"body":"gallery. And they can just work"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":667.08,"endTime":671.22,"body":"exclusively online with all of"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":667.08,"endTime":671.22,"body":"their stuff. And then maybe work"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":671.22,"endTime":673.74,"body":"with galleries if they want to"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":671.22,"endTime":673.74,"body":"like it's like, it becomes"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":673.74,"endTime":675.36,"body":"optional. Now, instead of like,"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":676.47,"endTime":679.08,"body":"Absolutely. I've"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":676.47,"endTime":679.08,"body":"worked with galleries and I"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":679.08,"endTime":682.62,"body":"haven't ever worked with any of"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":679.08,"endTime":682.62,"body":"the, you know, like, Cavalier"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":682.62,"endTime":686.46,"body":"somebody, right? But, but the"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":682.62,"endTime":686.46,"body":"galleries that I've worked with,"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":686.49,"endTime":689.94,"body":"I've worked with people who"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":686.49,"endTime":689.94,"body":"invited me to be part of their"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":689.97,"endTime":693.75,"body":"family are part of their team."},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":689.97,"endTime":693.75,"body":"And so I feel like that meant"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":693.75,"endTime":697.08,"body":"that I had an opportunity,"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":693.75,"endTime":697.08,"body":"because I knew that they liked"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":697.08,"endTime":699.9,"body":"my work a lot. You know, it was"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":697.08,"endTime":699.9,"body":"amigo, it was like, changes the"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":699.9,"endTime":703.47,"body":"dynamic. And so they've become"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":699.9,"endTime":703.47,"body":"friends who I wouldn't even if"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":703.47,"endTime":706.44,"body":"their gallery closed tomorrow, I"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":703.47,"endTime":706.44,"body":"would still be their friend and"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":706.44,"endTime":708.3,"body":"interact with them. And that's"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":706.44,"endTime":708.3,"body":"happened, several of them"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":708.3,"endTime":711.81,"body":"they've closed and I'm still in"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":708.3,"endTime":711.81,"body":"touch. So I feel like, for me,"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":711.81,"endTime":715.08,"body":"it's I don't know, I don't want"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":711.81,"endTime":715.08,"body":"just the gallery experience, I"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":715.2,"endTime":718.23,"body":"have it be all about the sales,"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":715.2,"endTime":718.23,"body":"I want it also to be about, you"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":718.23,"endTime":722.61,"body":"know, a good relationship. And"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":718.23,"endTime":722.61,"body":"so I look for that opportunity."},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":722.61,"endTime":726.48,"body":"But I also think that like what"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":722.61,"endTime":726.48,"body":"you're saying, there's so many I"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":726.48,"endTime":729.81,"body":"feel like FOMO I guess you know,"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":726.48,"endTime":729.81,"body":"if I'm not, if I was only doing"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":730.32,"endTime":734.13,"body":"the one solo show a year and"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":730.32,"endTime":734.13,"body":"only with one exclusive gallery,"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":734.22,"endTime":736.89,"body":"then I'd miss out on all these"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":734.22,"endTime":736.89,"body":"other experiences I'm having,"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":736.89,"endTime":738.96,"body":"and I don't want to do that,"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":736.89,"endTime":738.96,"body":"because I started so late in"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":738.96,"endTime":742.41,"body":"life, you know, in the art"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":738.96,"endTime":742.41,"body":"world, I feel like I'm have to"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":742.41,"endTime":743.55,"body":"play catch up now. You know,"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":744.36,"endTime":745.83,"body":"you're doing"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":744.36,"endTime":745.83,"body":"amazing."},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":746.55,"endTime":750.27,"body":"Oh, thank you."},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":746.55,"endTime":750.27,"body":"It's funny, because I talk with"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":750.27,"endTime":753.12,"body":"some of these artists. And I"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":750.27,"endTime":753.12,"body":"feel like, I don't know, I guess"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":753.12,"endTime":756.03,"body":"it's I have no apologies. But it"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":753.12,"endTime":756.03,"body":"sounds egocentric. When I'm"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":756.03,"endTime":759.81,"body":"like, you know, I did make"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":756.03,"endTime":759.81,"body":"sacrifices in the beginning. And"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":759.84,"endTime":763.11,"body":"we my husband and I worked for"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":759.84,"endTime":763.11,"body":"40 years. But for me now, it's"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":763.11,"endTime":765.42,"body":"not all about the money. But"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":763.11,"endTime":765.42,"body":"then I talked to someone who's"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":765.42,"endTime":768.63,"body":"younger and just trying to make"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":765.42,"endTime":768.63,"body":"ends meet. And they have to make"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":768.63,"endTime":771.54,"body":"all the sacrifices and they say"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":768.63,"endTime":771.54,"body":"me see me doing this stuff, just"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":771.54,"endTime":773.85,"body":"for fun, like going to the"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":771.54,"endTime":773.85,"body":"portrait conference, and then"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":773.85,"endTime":776.01,"body":"going here and then going there."},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":773.85,"endTime":776.01,"body":"And it's like, well, I can"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":776.01,"endTime":779.07,"body":"afford it because I worked for"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":776.01,"endTime":779.07,"body":"four decades to get to this"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":779.07,"endTime":783.99,"body":"point. So no apologies. But on"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":779.07,"endTime":783.99,"body":"the other hand, I can see where"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":784.17,"endTime":786.87,"body":"if I if my life had gone in the"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":784.17,"endTime":786.87,"body":"other direction, and I'd gone"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":786.87,"endTime":790.26,"body":"into art instead of engineering"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":786.87,"endTime":790.26,"body":"and done it, you know, that way"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":790.26,"endTime":793.38,"body":"I would have had to have, I"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":790.26,"endTime":793.38,"body":"would have faced a lot of"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":793.56,"endTime":796.26,"body":"poverty, you know, kinds of"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":793.56,"endTime":796.26,"body":"situations to begin with. And so"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":796.26,"endTime":800.04,"body":"I can't speak from what they're"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":796.26,"endTime":800.04,"body":"experiencing. So I don't know,"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":800.04,"endTime":802.89,"body":"it's like, there's all these"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":800.04,"endTime":802.89,"body":"different, isn't it weird that"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":802.89,"endTime":805.11,"body":"way, in the art world where"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":802.89,"endTime":805.11,"body":"you're dealing with people that"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":805.11,"endTime":807.12,"body":"are coming at it, where they"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":805.11,"endTime":807.12,"body":"have an awful lot of money, a"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":807.12,"endTime":810.27,"body":"lot of wealth, right? And"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":807.12,"endTime":810.27,"body":"they're collecting or doing this"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":810.27,"endTime":812.55,"body":"just for fun, or whatever. And"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":810.27,"endTime":812.55,"body":"then you're dealing with the"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":812.55,"endTime":815.64,"body":"people who you know, haven't"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":812.55,"endTime":815.64,"body":"figured out how to make this"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":815.64,"endTime":818.1,"body":"work for them yet, or whatever."},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":815.64,"endTime":818.1,"body":"So it's great that we have all"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":818.1,"endTime":821.55,"body":"these opportunities facile"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":818.1,"endTime":821.55,"body":"included, that we can, you know,"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":821.58,"endTime":824.76,"body":"explore and figure out what"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":821.58,"endTime":824.76,"body":"works for us, right. And whether"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":824.76,"endTime":828.63,"body":"it's teaching or videos or, and"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":824.76,"endTime":828.63,"body":"the realism resources, let's be"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":828.63,"endTime":832.44,"body":"honest, I mean, when I graduated"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":828.63,"endTime":832.44,"body":"from high school in 1979, there"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":832.44,"endTime":835.77,"body":"was that I actually had a"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":832.44,"endTime":835.77,"body":"scholarship to the Cranbrook Art"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":835.77,"endTime":838.53,"body":"Institute, and I had been the"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":835.77,"endTime":838.53,"body":"illustrator for the city of"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":838.53,"endTime":841.14,"body":"Sterling Heights. And I had like"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":838.53,"endTime":841.14,"body":"I was all poised to jump into"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":841.14,"endTime":844.41,"body":"the art world. And I get out"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":841.14,"endTime":844.41,"body":"there, and I'm looking at these"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":844.41,"endTime":847.2,"body":"curriculums, you know, that they"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":844.41,"endTime":847.2,"body":"had at the universities and"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":847.2,"endTime":851.55,"body":"they're literally talking about"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":847.2,"endTime":851.55,"body":"Rothko, and Jackson Pollock. And"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":851.64,"endTime":855.12,"body":"I'm like, where's the Rembrandt?"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":851.64,"endTime":855.12,"body":"Where's the discussion? What"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":855.12,"endTime":859.8,"body":"didn't exist? So at least now,"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":855.12,"endTime":859.8,"body":"people are like this shift more"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":859.8,"endTime":863.52,"body":"toward realism. People have that"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":859.8,"endTime":863.52,"body":"option for me. I'm like, I knew"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":863.52,"endTime":866.37,"body":"I didn't want to paint like"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":863.52,"endTime":866.37,"body":"Rothko, because I didn't I still"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":866.37,"endTime":868.47,"body":"don't understand them. No"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":866.37,"endTime":868.47,"body":"offense to anybody out there as"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":868.47,"endTime":872.19,"body":"a fan. But the thing is, I knew"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":868.47,"endTime":872.19,"body":"that wasn't what I wanted to do."},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":872.19,"endTime":874.89,"body":"But like you said, there were no"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":872.19,"endTime":874.89,"body":"resources available to do"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":874.89,"endTime":879.15,"body":"otherwise, you know, and I lived"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":874.89,"endTime":879.15,"body":"in the Detroit area, and, you"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":879.15,"endTime":884.7,"body":"know, I wasn't into cars, so I"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":879.15,"endTime":884.7,"body":"couldn't do like auto art. Like,"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":884.7,"endTime":888.24,"body":"what do I do? And I hated"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":884.7,"endTime":888.24,"body":"chemistry, and I love a problem."},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":888.42,"endTime":892.2,"body":"So like, how much to chemical"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":888.42,"endTime":892.2,"body":"engineers make Okay, let's do"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":892.2,"endTime":894.21,"body":"this. Let's make a whole bunch"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":892.2,"endTime":894.21,"body":"of money real fast and"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":894.21,"endTime":897.75,"body":"engineering and then do our"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":894.21,"endTime":897.75,"body":"thing. So that was my tact or"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":897.75,"endTime":901.14,"body":"whatever. And it's, I think it"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":897.75,"endTime":901.14,"body":"worked. Now I I'm biospin So I"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":901.14,"endTime":905.01,"body":"worked in biotechnology. So I'm"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":901.14,"endTime":905.01,"body":"like, wow, nowadays people are"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":905.01,"endTime":907.77,"body":"lining up the whole world lined"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":905.01,"endTime":907.77,"body":"up for, you know, the"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":907.95,"endTime":911.55,"body":"recombinant vaccines. Back when"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":907.95,"endTime":911.55,"body":"I first started working, we had"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":911.55,"endTime":914.19,"body":"lawsuits because I was worried"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":911.55,"endTime":914.19,"body":"about technology company in"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":914.19,"endTime":916.26,"body":"Cambridge, Massachusetts, the"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":914.19,"endTime":916.26,"body":"people in the community were"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":916.26,"endTime":918.69,"body":"concerned that we were don't"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":916.26,"endTime":918.69,"body":"remember that you probably don't"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":918.69,"endTime":921.09,"body":"remember this really bad horror"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":918.69,"endTime":921.09,"body":"movie, cannibalistic humanoid,"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":921.3,"endTime":924.81,"body":"underground dwellers should was"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":921.3,"endTime":924.81,"body":"the name of it anyway, they were"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":924.84,"endTime":928.47,"body":"seriously believe it? Yeah,"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":924.84,"endTime":928.47,"body":"seriously believed that we were"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":928.47,"endTime":933.18,"body":"creating in our lab, this"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":928.47,"endTime":933.18,"body":"biotechnology, you know, demon"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":933.18,"endTime":936.27,"body":"monster that was going to get in"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":933.18,"endTime":936.27,"body":"the sewers when we flush them"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":936.27,"endTime":939.36,"body":"down the toilet and, and, you"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":936.27,"endTime":939.36,"body":"know, attack everybody or"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":939.36,"endTime":941.67,"body":"whatever. And so we had lawsuits"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":939.36,"endTime":941.67,"body":"about that kind of stuff. And"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":941.67,"endTime":945.6,"body":"now we laugh. But back in the"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":941.67,"endTime":945.6,"body":"day, people were legit, scared,"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":945.6,"endTime":948.81,"body":"you know, and then, you know,"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":945.6,"endTime":948.81,"body":"there were all kinds of things"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":948.81,"endTime":951.45,"body":"that came along, like, you know,"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":948.81,"endTime":951.45,"body":"AIDS. And it was, it was a"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":951.45,"endTime":954.36,"body":"different era back in, you know,"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":951.45,"endTime":954.36,"body":"to challenger things are falling"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":954.36,"endTime":957.0,"body":"out of the sky and Skylab and"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":954.36,"endTime":957.0,"body":"all that. So it was a different"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":957.0,"endTime":960.15,"body":"time back then. And so I"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":957.0,"endTime":960.15,"body":"understand a lot of what the"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":960.15,"endTime":963.96,"body":"abstract and modern art movement"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":960.15,"endTime":963.96,"body":"was doing was, you know, in, I"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":963.96,"endTime":966.6,"body":"don't know, reactionary or"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":963.96,"endTime":966.6,"body":"whatever, to a lot of what was"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":966.6,"endTime":969.75,"body":"going on. But I just never left"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":966.6,"endTime":969.75,"body":"the Dark Ages. Like, I was"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":969.75,"endTime":974.67,"body":"always interested in the"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":969.75,"endTime":974.67,"body":"manuscripts and all that stuff."},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":974.67,"endTime":980.13,"body":"So in the midst of all that, for"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":974.67,"endTime":980.13,"body":"my realist painters, and just,"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":980.13,"endTime":983.34,"body":"you know, kept having to seek"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":980.13,"endTime":983.34,"body":"them out and learn what I could."},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":983.34,"endTime":986.49,"body":"And so I think it's wonderful"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":983.34,"endTime":986.49,"body":"what you're talking about doing"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":986.49,"endTime":989.34,"body":"because the more we can"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":986.49,"endTime":989.34,"body":"contribute to those resources,"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":989.34,"endTime":991.5,"body":"and now with the internet,"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":989.34,"endTime":991.5,"body":"they're available on such a"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":991.5,"endTime":994.68,"body":"larger scale back then, we had"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":991.5,"endTime":994.68,"body":"to walk through the rain and"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":994.68,"endTime":998.22,"body":"snow to the library, and then"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":994.68,"endTime":998.22,"body":"you get a card catalog and look"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":998.22,"endTime":999.69,"body":"up. Whatever we're"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":1000.349,"endTime":1002.929,"body":"Oh, man."},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":1000.349,"endTime":1002.929,"body":"Yeah, yeah. I mean, the example"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":1002.929,"endTime":1007.459,"body":"of you know, Michael, John"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":1002.929,"endTime":1007.459,"body":"angel, he, it was him and Daniel"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":1007.459,"endTime":1010.459,"body":"graves, and Charles Cecil, and"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":1007.459,"endTime":1010.459,"body":"they're the ones who got"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":1010.459,"endTime":1013.399,"body":"together. And I think it was"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":1010.459,"endTime":1013.399,"body":"probably Daniel graves, I can't"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":1013.399,"endTime":1016.219,"body":"remember. But he's the one who"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":1013.399,"endTime":1016.219,"body":"found the original Barbie plates"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":1016.309,"endTime":1021.349,"body":"at a flea market in France,"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":1016.309,"endTime":1021.349,"body":"which is insane. I think it was"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":1021.349,"endTime":1024.079,"body":"like the 80s or 90s. bird"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1024.079,"endTime":1026.059,"body":"books. I've got,"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1024.079,"endTime":1026.059,"body":"like so many of them now."},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1026.089,"endTime":1028.129,"body":"Because now they've got the"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1026.089,"endTime":1028.129,"body":"board. They've cleaned them up"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1028.129,"endTime":1030.409,"body":"and put them in other people"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1028.129,"endTime":1030.409,"body":"have published different and,"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1030.739,"endTime":1035.089,"body":"and then the Julio ones as well."},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1030.739,"endTime":1035.089,"body":"And yeah, now it's not just"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1035.089,"endTime":1037.429,"body":"Berg. There are other artists"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1035.089,"endTime":1037.429,"body":"that are Yeah,"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":1037.49,"endTime":1040.88,"body":"yeah. And"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":1037.49,"endTime":1040.88,"body":"it's, and I love that, you know,"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":1041.3,"endTime":1043.64,"body":"people like, you know, Michael,"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":1041.3,"endTime":1043.64,"body":"John Angel, and you and people"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":1043.64,"endTime":1048.71,"body":"who just didn't give up on the"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":1043.64,"endTime":1048.71,"body":"realism, even when, you know, in"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":1048.71,"endTime":1054.95,"body":"the 20/20 century was basically"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":1048.71,"endTime":1054.95,"body":"considered dead. Which was sad."},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":1055.73,"endTime":1058.79,"body":"I'm happy that people like you"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":1055.73,"endTime":1058.79,"body":"didn't give up. And, you know,"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":1058.82,"endTime":1061.22,"body":"kept that torch, you know, going"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":1058.82,"endTime":1061.22,"body":"into, like, cover up."},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1062.6,"endTime":1064.4,"body":"times. I mean, you"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1062.6,"endTime":1064.4,"body":"had it sometimes, you know, go"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1064.4,"endTime":1067.31,"body":"to parties and go, do you know"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1064.4,"endTime":1067.31,"body":"what this is for? If you're not,"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1067.31,"endTime":1068.75,"body":"you can't be my friend, right?"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":1071.87,"endTime":1073.4,"body":"Oh, my gosh,"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":1071.87,"endTime":1073.4,"body":"for our listeners, she was"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":1073.4,"endTime":1076.49,"body":"holding up, she was holding up a"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":1073.4,"endTime":1076.49,"body":"cast of a nose of the David."},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1077.36,"endTime":1080.0,"body":"Audio, it's part"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1077.36,"endTime":1080.0,"body":"of MC Michelangelo's David. Yes,"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1080.0,"endTime":1083.99,"body":"it is true. But even though I"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1080.0,"endTime":1083.99,"body":"didn't go to the academic"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1083.99,"endTime":1087.74,"body":"training, I seeked it out and"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1083.99,"endTime":1087.74,"body":"was able to find eventually"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1087.86,"endTime":1092.09,"body":"enough people that I could, you"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1087.86,"endTime":1092.09,"body":"know, some of them, they agreed"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1092.09,"endTime":1094.16,"body":"to be mentors, some of them"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1092.09,"endTime":1094.16,"body":"might just didn't give them the"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1094.16,"endTime":1099.56,"body":"choice. But, you know, over the"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1094.16,"endTime":1099.56,"body":"years, I had to struggle. But I"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1099.56,"endTime":1101.75,"body":"over the years, I found people"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1099.56,"endTime":1101.75,"body":"so that I could learn to be a"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1101.75,"endTime":1104.99,"body":"realist painter. But I look at"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1101.75,"endTime":1104.99,"body":"that, too. And I'm like, now if"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1104.99,"endTime":1107.84,"body":"life had gone differently, and"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1104.99,"endTime":1107.84,"body":"if I had just been able to walk"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1107.84,"endTime":1111.11,"body":"into a situation where I learned"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1107.84,"endTime":1111.11,"body":"it all, it's kind of like, you"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1111.11,"endTime":1113.48,"body":"know, if I don't know if you've"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1111.11,"endTime":1113.48,"body":"ever raised chickens before age,"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1113.48,"endTime":1117.05,"body":"but you know how they, they"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1113.48,"endTime":1117.05,"body":"hatch, and then they are trying"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1117.05,"endTime":1120.41,"body":"to struggle so bad. And the kids"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1117.05,"endTime":1120.41,"body":"who peel away the shell to help"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1120.41,"endTime":1122.63,"body":"them struggle, then they die"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1120.41,"endTime":1122.63,"body":"because they can't breathe"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1122.63,"endTime":1124.97,"body":"because of these, everything"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1122.63,"endTime":1124.97,"body":"under their lungs or whatever."},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1125.42,"endTime":1128.09,"body":"It's kind of that way. I feel"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1125.42,"endTime":1128.09,"body":"like, gosh, I wouldn't be the"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1128.09,"endTime":1131.0,"body":"same artist if I'd have just"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1128.09,"endTime":1131.0,"body":"like found somebody who could"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1131.0,"endTime":1132.95,"body":"have taught me everything right,"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1131.0,"endTime":1132.95,"body":"right from the beginning, if I"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1132.95,"endTime":1135.86,"body":"hadn't discovered, you know, the"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1132.95,"endTime":1135.86,"body":"bar drawings, like two decades,"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1135.86,"endTime":1139.46,"body":"sooner would I have been? You"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1135.86,"endTime":1139.46,"body":"know, better for it? Maybe I'll"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1139.46,"endTime":1143.84,"body":"never know. But yeah. Your"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1139.46,"endTime":1143.84,"body":"struggles helped you, like be"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1143.84,"endTime":1144.71,"body":"who you are. Yes."},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":1144.8,"endTime":1147.38,"body":"Yeah, I"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":1144.8,"endTime":1147.38,"body":"think I mean, in terms of"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":1147.44,"endTime":1150.26,"body":"actual, you know, normal"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":1147.44,"endTime":1150.26,"body":"struggles with like, painting"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":1150.26,"endTime":1152.45,"body":"and like, you know, getting"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":1150.26,"endTime":1152.45,"body":"better and stuff. Yes, when it"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":1152.45,"endTime":1157.16,"body":"comes to the struggle of you"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":1152.45,"endTime":1157.16,"body":"know, facing and and I tell this"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":1157.16,"endTime":1160.4,"body":"to my students whenever I have"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":1157.16,"endTime":1160.4,"body":"them, or whenever I have new"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":1160.4,"endTime":1163.43,"body":"students, and I tend to remind"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":1160.4,"endTime":1163.43,"body":"them to I'm like, when you're"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":1163.43,"endTime":1166.25,"body":"painting or you're learning how"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":1163.43,"endTime":1166.25,"body":"to draw from the very beginning,"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":1166.31,"endTime":1170.36,"body":"you are facing your demons,"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":1166.31,"endTime":1170.36,"body":"because you will have to face"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":1170.36,"endTime":1174.14,"body":"the fact that your work is"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":1170.36,"endTime":1174.14,"body":"inaccurate, and it's going to"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":1174.14,"endTime":1176.87,"body":"suck. But guess what, you can"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":1174.14,"endTime":1176.87,"body":"fix that. And you have to"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":1176.87,"endTime":1180.08,"body":"believe that you can fix that."},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":1176.87,"endTime":1180.08,"body":"If not, you're just going to be"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":1180.08,"endTime":1183.05,"body":"fighting with your demons all"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":1180.08,"endTime":1183.05,"body":"day. But you just have to push"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":1183.05,"endTime":1187.13,"body":"through it and trust yourself."},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":1183.05,"endTime":1187.13,"body":"And that can be really first of"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":1187.13,"endTime":1189.26,"body":"all surprising for some people"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":1187.13,"endTime":1189.26,"body":"because they don't think they"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":1189.26,"endTime":1191.81,"body":"think drawing is just another"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":1189.26,"endTime":1191.81,"body":"line. I just make it look good."},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":1191.9,"endTime":1194.78,"body":"No, I think it is a very"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":1191.9,"endTime":1194.78,"body":"complicated psychological battle"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":1194.78,"endTime":1197.75,"body":"with the self was most of the"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":1194.78,"endTime":1197.75,"body":"time"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1197.87,"endTime":1200.3,"body":"and we do it"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1197.87,"endTime":1200.3,"body":"because we have a passion We"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1200.3,"endTime":1203.27,"body":"don't have a choice right that I"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1200.3,"endTime":1203.27,"body":"think it weeds out. I think this"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1203.27,"endTime":1206.66,"body":"business weeds out the people"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1203.27,"endTime":1206.66,"body":"who just while maybe doesn't"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1206.66,"endTime":1209.12,"body":"weed everybody out if you're"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1206.66,"endTime":1209.12,"body":"just interested in marketing and"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1209.12,"endTime":1211.76,"body":"you're really good at it, I"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1209.12,"endTime":1211.76,"body":"think you can do really well."},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1211.79,"endTime":1215.54,"body":"Right. But yeah, but people that"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1211.79,"endTime":1215.54,"body":"have a passion for art."},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1216.26,"endTime":1219.2,"body":"Understand that if you don't,"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1216.26,"endTime":1219.2,"body":"it's not going to get you"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1219.2,"endTime":1222.35,"body":"through those tough times. Like"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1219.2,"endTime":1222.35,"body":"I was at Archer conference this"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1222.35,"endTime":1225.83,"body":"weekend. And I was listening to"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1222.35,"endTime":1225.83,"body":"Kevin McPherson. Yeah, he had a"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1225.83,"endTime":1228.26,"body":"talk and he was talking about"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1225.83,"endTime":1228.26,"body":"how he's down in Mexico"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1228.26,"endTime":1230.99,"body":"painting. And there's these guys"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1228.26,"endTime":1230.99,"body":"that, you know, in this area"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1230.99,"endTime":1233.03,"body":"that he was in that look like"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1230.99,"endTime":1233.03,"body":"they wanted to kill them, but"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1233.03,"endTime":1234.98,"body":"then they come over and they"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1233.03,"endTime":1234.98,"body":"look over his shoulder and go,"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1235.01,"endTime":1237.5,"body":"that's pretty good. We won't"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1235.01,"endTime":1237.5,"body":"kill you today. You know, like,"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1237.98,"endTime":1242.93,"body":"you're, you're literally killing"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1237.98,"endTime":1242.93,"body":"yourself. Or, you know, James"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1242.93,"endTime":1245.54,"body":"Gurney was talking about how him"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1242.93,"endTime":1245.54,"body":"and Thomas Kincaid right after"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1245.54,"endTime":1248.84,"body":"they graduated from college way"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1245.54,"endTime":1248.84,"body":"back when they were hobos, they"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1248.84,"endTime":1251.84,"body":"jumped freight trains and lived"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1248.84,"endTime":1251.84,"body":"in boxcars for years, you know,"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1251.87,"endTime":1255.02,"body":"painting plein air, painting"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1251.87,"endTime":1255.02,"body":"people and everything like you"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1255.02,"endTime":1258.59,"body":"put yourself into those risky"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1255.02,"endTime":1258.59,"body":"situations. Why? Because you're"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1258.59,"endTime":1262.76,"body":"so consumed, and you're so all"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1258.59,"endTime":1262.76,"body":"about the art. Right? And I"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1262.76,"endTime":1265.58,"body":"mean, I don't think he normal."},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1262.76,"endTime":1265.58,"body":"Not that we're all I think we're"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1265.58,"endTime":1268.28,"body":"all insane. There were just on"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1265.58,"endTime":1268.28,"body":"that continuum of insanity,"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1268.28,"endTime":1271.64,"body":"right to the level that it"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1268.28,"endTime":1271.64,"body":"interferes with other people in"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1271.64,"endTime":1274.07,"body":"your functioning in society, you"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1271.64,"endTime":1274.07,"body":"know, is whether you get the"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1274.07,"endTime":1277.52,"body":"white coat or not, but I think"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1274.07,"endTime":1277.52,"body":"you have to be a little bit"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1277.55,"endTime":1281.93,"body":"nutty. And so like, taken by"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1277.55,"endTime":1281.93,"body":"this whole, you know, passion"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1281.93,"endTime":1284.03,"body":"for the arts and putting beauty"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1281.93,"endTime":1284.03,"body":"in the world and being one of"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1284.03,"endTime":1287.96,"body":"the creators. I have postcards"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1284.03,"endTime":1287.96,"body":"over there from I was standing"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1287.96,"endTime":1291.59,"body":"in front of these cave drawings"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1287.96,"endTime":1291.59,"body":"that are like 30,000 years old."},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1291.59,"endTime":1295.13,"body":"So in the Ice Age, there's these"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1291.59,"endTime":1295.13,"body":"cave people, I don't know what"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1295.13,"endTime":1297.89,"body":"CRO magnons, whatever they were"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1295.13,"endTime":1297.89,"body":"called back then. And instead of"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1297.89,"endTime":1301.01,"body":"making baby CRO magnons, or"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1297.89,"endTime":1301.01,"body":"hunting for food, or doing"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1301.01,"endTime":1304.64,"body":"whatever they could do, somebody"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1301.01,"endTime":1304.64,"body":"probably with spit or something"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1304.64,"endTime":1307.67,"body":"crunched up a whole bunch of"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1304.64,"endTime":1307.67,"body":"Yellow Ochre and charcoal, and"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1307.94,"endTime":1311.3,"body":"they crawled their way through"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1307.94,"endTime":1311.3,"body":"because you could see the little"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1311.3,"endTime":1314.72,"body":"hole through these stalagmites"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1311.3,"endTime":1314.72,"body":"and stalactites that I mean,"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1314.72,"endTime":1316.79,"body":"frankly, if you've ever been in"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1314.72,"endTime":1316.79,"body":"one of those caves, if you"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1316.79,"endTime":1319.22,"body":"tripped and fell on one of those"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1316.79,"endTime":1319.22,"body":"it would it would spear you"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1319.22,"endTime":1323.33,"body":"right. Yeah. So death defying to"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1319.22,"endTime":1323.33,"body":"get to this place on the cave"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1323.33,"endTime":1326.06,"body":"wall holding their torch, which"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1323.33,"endTime":1326.06,"body":"if your torch goes out, then"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1326.06,"endTime":1329.57,"body":"you're dead. Right? Yeah, find"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1326.06,"endTime":1329.57,"body":"your way out, is holding their"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1329.57,"endTime":1334.58,"body":"torch. And they found a way so"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1329.57,"endTime":1334.58,"body":"that the cave wall creates a"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1334.58,"endTime":1337.79,"body":"relief, you know, creates"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1334.58,"endTime":1337.79,"body":"shadows, so and so they found a"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1337.79,"endTime":1341.42,"body":"way holding their torch in this"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1337.79,"endTime":1341.42,"body":"specific place where they could"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1341.57,"endTime":1345.62,"body":"paint there. They think it was"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1341.57,"endTime":1345.62,"body":"deer they had hit like humps,"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1345.62,"endTime":1349.37,"body":"like camels have humps. But"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1345.62,"endTime":1349.37,"body":"they're like prehistoric deer on"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1349.37,"endTime":1352.49,"body":"this wall so that they were"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1349.37,"endTime":1352.49,"body":"actually turning form with the"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1352.49,"endTime":1356.33,"body":"light and the relief of the cave"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1352.49,"endTime":1356.33,"body":"and the the paint that they had"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1356.33,"endTime":1358.82,"body":"at the time, you know, and I'm"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1356.33,"endTime":1358.82,"body":"sitting here thinking, okay,"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1358.82,"endTime":1361.19,"body":"these are people who I don't"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1358.82,"endTime":1361.19,"body":"know, even if they had language"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1361.19,"endTime":1363.62,"body":"back then or I mean, nobody"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1361.19,"endTime":1363.62,"body":"knows what it would have been"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1363.62,"endTime":1367.4,"body":"like to be one of these people."},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1363.62,"endTime":1367.4,"body":"But like, that speaks to me to"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1367.49,"endTime":1372.2,"body":"how part of our DNA and our"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1367.49,"endTime":1372.2,"body":"ancestry the whole idea of a"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1372.2,"endTime":1376.52,"body":"passion for the art, even when"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1372.2,"endTime":1376.52,"body":"we're at risk to create how"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1376.55,"endTime":1381.29,"body":"inbred it is into some of us."},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1376.55,"endTime":1381.29,"body":"Right? So I mean, I'm standing"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1381.29,"endTime":1386.03,"body":"there going that's like, that's,"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1381.29,"endTime":1386.03,"body":"that's crazy, dude, because I'm"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1386.03,"endTime":1388.79,"body":"like, watching, um, did I wear"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1386.03,"endTime":1388.79,"body":"the right shoes? I could slip"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1388.79,"endTime":1391.58,"body":"and fall. It's very damp in"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1388.79,"endTime":1391.58,"body":"here, you know, by break a hip"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1391.58,"endTime":1395.24,"body":"and France, I'm really in"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1391.58,"endTime":1395.24,"body":"trouble. Yeah. And yeah, and"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1395.24,"endTime":1398.69,"body":"here's this, this person who did"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1395.24,"endTime":1398.69,"body":"this, and all these years later,"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1398.69,"endTime":1401.84,"body":"we're looking at it going, Wow."},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1398.69,"endTime":1401.84,"body":"I mean, it's a pictorial"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1401.84,"endTime":1405.38,"body":"representation of, you know,"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1401.84,"endTime":1405.38,"body":"what they were, what their life"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1405.38,"endTime":1408.14,"body":"was like, and who knows, I mean,"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1405.38,"endTime":1408.14,"body":"I'm thinking they probably at"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1408.14,"endTime":1410.84,"body":"other colors that have doubled"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1408.14,"endTime":1410.84,"body":"over the centuries, and, you"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1410.84,"endTime":1414.38,"body":"know, probably looked like some"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1410.84,"endTime":1414.38,"body":"amazing, you know, yeah,"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1414.47,"endTime":1417.77,"body":"Leonardo da Vinci kind of"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1414.47,"endTime":1417.77,"body":"Sistine Chapel thing when they"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1417.83,"endTime":1421.25,"body":"did it. Now, this is what we're"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1417.83,"endTime":1421.25,"body":"looking at, you know, but, but,"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1421.34,"endTime":1424.37,"body":"I mean, I feel like it's that"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1421.34,"endTime":1424.37,"body":"way still, to this day, we're"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1424.37,"endTime":1427.97,"body":"trying to figure out in this"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1424.37,"endTime":1427.97,"body":"modern world, how to, and it's"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1427.97,"endTime":1430.55,"body":"not even necessarily for a lot"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1427.97,"endTime":1430.55,"body":"of us, because we want to be in"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1430.55,"endTime":1433.67,"body":"the spotlight or because we"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1430.55,"endTime":1433.67,"body":"want, you know, the fame or the"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1433.67,"endTime":1436.49,"body":"recognition. I mean, but I think"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1433.67,"endTime":1436.49,"body":"Don't you feel like it's kind of"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1436.49,"endTime":1439.49,"body":"like, you just want to have a"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1436.49,"endTime":1439.49,"body":"voice? You know, yeah, you just"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1439.49,"endTime":1444.05,"body":"want to be there be one of them"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1439.49,"endTime":1444.05,"body":"be part of the group that? Yeah,"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1444.08,"endTime":1444.47,"body":"you know,"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":1444.53,"endTime":1447.32,"body":"yeah, it's"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":1444.53,"endTime":1447.32,"body":"like, I think that's part of"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":1447.32,"endTime":1450.8,"body":"that other side of, you know,"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":1447.32,"endTime":1450.8,"body":"our ingrained biological need"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":1450.8,"endTime":1456.8,"body":"for being a part of, you know, a"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":1450.8,"endTime":1456.8,"body":"group of people. And I think"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":1456.8,"endTime":1459.35,"body":"what's interesting too, is,"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":1456.8,"endTime":1459.35,"body":"like, for example, like the"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":1459.35,"endTime":1462.89,"body":"salmagundi club, right? They"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":1459.35,"endTime":1462.89,"body":"have also been holding a torch a"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":1462.89,"endTime":1466.55,"body":"very important torch. And I know"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":1462.89,"endTime":1466.55,"body":"you're part of salmagundi club,"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":1466.64,"endTime":1471.41,"body":"I love Yes, I've been, I keep"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":1466.64,"endTime":1471.41,"body":"saying I'm gonna join and I do"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":1471.44,"endTime":1473.96,"body":"want to join but like, I just"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":1471.44,"endTime":1473.96,"body":"haven't made time to fill out"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":1473.96,"endTime":1476.54,"body":"the application and get, you"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":1473.96,"endTime":1476.54,"body":"know, the signatures and all of"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":1476.54,"endTime":1478.79,"body":"that because I'm in a different"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":1476.54,"endTime":1478.79,"body":"country. So it makes it a little"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":1478.79,"endTime":1481.1,"body":"challenging. But I have tons of"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":1478.79,"endTime":1481.1,"body":"friends who are in the"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":1481.1,"endTime":1483.92,"body":"salmagundi club. And then you"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":1481.1,"endTime":1483.92,"body":"know, we did an episode also on"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":1483.92,"endTime":1486.8,"body":"the history of some mechanic"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":1483.92,"endTime":1486.8,"body":"club, and it's fascinating how"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":1486.89,"endTime":1491.48,"body":"so many important realist"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":1486.89,"endTime":1491.48,"body":"painters have gone through the"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":1491.48,"endTime":1494.33,"body":"doors of the salmagundi club."},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":1491.48,"endTime":1494.33,"body":"It's like they at one point they"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":1494.33,"endTime":1496.7,"body":"were all fighting to be a part"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":1494.33,"endTime":1496.7,"body":"of summer Candy Club. I think in"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":1496.7,"endTime":1500.72,"body":"like the late I'm gonna say"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":1496.7,"endTime":1500.72,"body":"yeah, the early The 20th century"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":1500.72,"endTime":1506.99,"body":"I think, just it's so I guess"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":1500.72,"endTime":1506.99,"body":"it's a testament to how it's,"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":1507.05,"endTime":1510.23,"body":"you know, it's one, it's for the"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":1507.05,"endTime":1510.23,"body":"art, too. It's for the"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":1510.26,"endTime":1514.37,"body":"camaraderie and the social"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":1510.26,"endTime":1514.37,"body":"aspect. And then it's like,"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":1514.37,"endTime":1516.68,"body":"okay, and then it's like the"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":1514.37,"endTime":1516.68,"body":"lucratively. Oh, yes, the"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":1516.68,"endTime":1520.7,"body":"spotlight, but how has it been"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":1516.68,"endTime":1520.7,"body":"for you being part of because"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":1520.7,"endTime":1524.03,"body":"you're part of a bunch of"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":1520.7,"endTime":1524.03,"body":"different societies? How have"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":1524.03,"endTime":1525.62,"body":"you found that it's helped you?"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1525.71,"endTime":1527.84,"body":"Well, I did the"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1525.71,"endTime":1527.84,"body":"whole spray and pray thing, you"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1527.84,"endTime":1531.02,"body":"know, just like joined everybody"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1527.84,"endTime":1531.02,"body":"that would take me in. And, you"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1531.02,"endTime":1533.72,"body":"know, I was pretty proud to get"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1531.02,"endTime":1533.72,"body":"into a number of them that were"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1533.72,"endTime":1537.05,"body":"juried and everything. And now"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1533.72,"endTime":1537.05,"body":"I'm trying to do exactly what"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1537.05,"endTime":1540.41,"body":"you're asking, which is to look"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1537.05,"endTime":1540.41,"body":"at where I'm at, you know, and"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1540.74,"endTime":1545.33,"body":"hit this almost 15 years after"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1540.74,"endTime":1545.33,"body":"joining some of these, and"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1545.33,"endTime":1548.51,"body":"decide which ones are really"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1545.33,"endTime":1548.51,"body":"serving me at this point. And"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1548.51,"endTime":1551.99,"body":"then reluctantly, because you"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1548.51,"endTime":1551.99,"body":"can't, you can't have, you can't"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1551.99,"endTime":1554.15,"body":"be a part of everything all the"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1551.99,"endTime":1554.15,"body":"time, right. So I'm trying to"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1554.18,"endTime":1557.66,"body":"pare it down and focus. And it's"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1554.18,"endTime":1557.66,"body":"really hard, because you don't"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1557.66,"endTime":1560.96,"body":"want to let any of them go"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1557.66,"endTime":1560.96,"body":"right. And every every over the"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1560.96,"endTime":1564.23,"body":"years, they've all given you"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1560.96,"endTime":1564.23,"body":"something but you have to just"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1564.23,"endTime":1567.29,"body":"sit there and prioritize and"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1564.23,"endTime":1567.29,"body":"figure out, you know, who's"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1567.29,"endTime":1570.86,"body":"giving you the most salmagundi"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1567.29,"endTime":1570.86,"body":"up there and at the top of, you"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1570.86,"endTime":1574.31,"body":"know, those that have given me"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1570.86,"endTime":1574.31,"body":"the most for sure. Part of what"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1574.31,"endTime":1576.95,"body":"has been nice about someone"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1574.31,"endTime":1576.95,"body":"Gundy is they have a number of"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1576.95,"endTime":1581.96,"body":"other programs that they host or"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1576.95,"endTime":1581.96,"body":"sponsor or I don't know what the"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1581.96,"endTime":1584.81,"body":"word is they're somehow"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1581.96,"endTime":1584.81,"body":"affiliated with. And so I would"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1584.81,"endTime":1587.84,"body":"not have been aware of, for"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1584.81,"endTime":1587.84,"body":"example, the CO gap that Coast"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1587.84,"endTime":1593.78,"body":"Guard artists have program. And"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1587.84,"endTime":1593.78,"body":"that program has been just an"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1593.78,"endTime":1597.56,"body":"amazing, wonderful experience I"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1593.78,"endTime":1597.56,"body":"as a result of being juried in"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1597.56,"endTime":1601.37,"body":"as a Coast Guard artist, I have"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1597.56,"endTime":1601.37,"body":"eight pieces in the Coast Guard"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1601.37,"endTime":1604.76,"body":"art collection, which to me,"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1601.37,"endTime":1604.76,"body":"that's my legacy, like, I wasn't"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1604.76,"endTime":1607.88,"body":"even looking for a legacy. But"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1604.76,"endTime":1607.88,"body":"that those that when people say"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1607.88,"endTime":1609.98,"body":"Oh, you don't have to worry"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1607.88,"endTime":1609.98,"body":"about archival, because you'll"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1609.98,"endTime":1612.38,"body":"be dead before it's an issue."},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1609.98,"endTime":1612.38,"body":"I'm like, No, those paintings"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1612.38,"endTime":1615.8,"body":"are going to be out there longer"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1612.38,"endTime":1615.8,"body":"than I'm going to live. And so"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1615.83,"endTime":1619.16,"body":"for me, I want to make sure that"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1615.83,"endTime":1619.16,"body":"what I'm doing is always you"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1619.16,"endTime":1621.98,"body":"know, archival, and is going to"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1619.16,"endTime":1621.98,"body":"last hundreds or 1000s of years"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1621.98,"endTime":1625.76,"body":"and so they can go she was there"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1621.98,"endTime":1625.76,"body":"with her, her her torch, you"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1625.76,"endTime":1631.91,"body":"know, doing the art thing, right"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1625.76,"endTime":1631.91,"body":"way back in the 21st century."},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1631.91,"endTime":1635.66,"body":"But, um, so given gave me that"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1631.91,"endTime":1635.66,"body":"which I didn't even know I"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1635.66,"endTime":1639.47,"body":"wanted. But I also have had"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1635.66,"endTime":1639.47,"body":"experiences like the residency"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1639.47,"endTime":1643.13,"body":"and the the cutter stone, I went"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1639.47,"endTime":1643.13,"body":"out on our news, national"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1643.13,"endTime":1646.73,"body":"security cutter, and was part of"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1643.13,"endTime":1646.73,"body":"the crew for a week. And that"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1646.73,"endTime":1650.84,"body":"was an extremely, I was the"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1646.73,"endTime":1650.84,"body":"oldest one on the ship. And they"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1650.84,"endTime":1654.02,"body":"gave me free rein. Even the"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1650.84,"endTime":1654.02,"body":"people on the crew are not"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1654.02,"endTime":1658.13,"body":"allowed to come into the bridge"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1654.02,"endTime":1658.13,"body":"with cameras and recordings and"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1658.13,"endTime":1660.44,"body":"things because of security"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1658.13,"endTime":1660.44,"body":"issues. And they're like, no,"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1660.74,"endTime":1663.17,"body":"just go do whatever you want."},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1660.74,"endTime":1663.17,"body":"Just don't take pictures of the"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1663.17,"endTime":1665.84,"body":"screen. Like they trusted me"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1663.17,"endTime":1665.84,"body":"completely. And I'm thinking"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1665.84,"endTime":1668.78,"body":"afterwards, was I on camera the"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1665.84,"endTime":1668.78,"body":"whole time? Like how did they?"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1668.9,"endTime":1670.52,"body":"Why did they trust me? I don't"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1668.9,"endTime":1670.52,"body":"know."},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":1671.63,"endTime":1674.69,"body":"Maybe Maybe"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":1671.63,"endTime":1674.69,"body":"they were surveilling you. They"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":1674.69,"endTime":1674.9,"body":"could"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1674.9,"endTime":1677.33,"body":"have but I don't"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1674.9,"endTime":1677.33,"body":"know. I'd be I didn't argue and"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1677.33,"endTime":1679.76,"body":"I just I did it. And I'm It was"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1677.33,"endTime":1679.76,"body":"amazing. And I loved it. That"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1679.76,"endTime":1682.52,"body":"never would have happened, if"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1679.76,"endTime":1682.52,"body":"not for someone Gundy, right. So"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1682.73,"endTime":1685.55,"body":"there's that that it gives you"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1682.73,"endTime":1685.55,"body":"those other opportunities then"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1685.61,"endTime":1688.34,"body":"when you join things like the"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1685.61,"endTime":1688.34,"body":"portrait society that I was just"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1688.34,"endTime":1691.22,"body":"at their conference last"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1688.34,"endTime":1691.22,"body":"weekend, it puts you with other"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1691.22,"endTime":1695.36,"body":"people or the women artists of"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1691.22,"endTime":1695.36,"body":"the West I'm afraid of cowboys"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1695.39,"endTime":1699.29,"body":"aren't even are not cowboys of"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1695.39,"endTime":1699.29,"body":"horses, the things they ride."},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1700.94,"endTime":1703.76,"body":"Know why they let me into women"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1700.94,"endTime":1703.76,"body":"artists, the West because it's"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1703.76,"endTime":1708.68,"body":"also a jury them group. But they"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1703.76,"endTime":1708.68,"body":"did. And I'm having the time of"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1708.68,"endTime":1711.62,"body":"my life going to Western"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1708.68,"endTime":1711.62,"body":"photoshoots and things and"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1711.62,"endTime":1715.34,"body":"getting to know all of these"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1711.62,"endTime":1715.34,"body":"people and realizing like when"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1715.34,"endTime":1717.65,"body":"just like when you go to the"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1715.34,"endTime":1717.65,"body":"portraits set society or any of"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1717.65,"endTime":1721.01,"body":"these, that whatever group"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1717.65,"endTime":1721.01,"body":"you're in, where you've got, you"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1721.01,"endTime":1724.52,"body":"know, people that are all fan"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1721.01,"endTime":1724.52,"body":"girling on each other and doing"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1724.52,"endTime":1730.28,"body":"the, that person is only of"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1724.52,"endTime":1730.28,"body":"interest and famous or whatever,"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1730.31,"endTime":1733.7,"body":"like James and Jeanette Gurney,"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1730.31,"endTime":1733.7,"body":"they're famous to me, I want to"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1733.7,"endTime":1737.09,"body":"be them when I grew up, right?"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1733.7,"endTime":1737.09,"body":"But they're only famous in those"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1737.09,"endTime":1739.64,"body":"little teeny circles, if you"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1737.09,"endTime":1739.64,"body":"took them and put them in the"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1739.64,"endTime":1742.73,"body":"Western world. I doubt anybody"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1739.64,"endTime":1742.73,"body":"would know who they were, if you"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1742.73,"endTime":1745.79,"body":"take some of these amazing"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1742.73,"endTime":1745.79,"body":"Western artists that I've had"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1745.79,"endTime":1748.04,"body":"the opportunity to interact"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1745.79,"endTime":1748.04,"body":"with, and put them at the"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1748.04,"endTime":1750.23,"body":"portrait society, I guarantee"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1748.04,"endTime":1750.23,"body":"you nobody would know who they"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1750.23,"endTime":1753.23,"body":"were. And it's so weird to me"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1750.23,"endTime":1753.23,"body":"that we have all these little"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1753.23,"endTime":1756.32,"body":"pockets, all these little"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1753.23,"endTime":1756.32,"body":"communities or niches, right?"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1756.35,"endTime":1759.14,"body":"The miniature art world the"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1756.35,"endTime":1759.14,"body":"same. You know, I know a lot of"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1759.14,"endTime":1761.81,"body":"people who do the miniature art,"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1759.14,"endTime":1761.81,"body":"which is art, that's the size of"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1761.81,"endTime":1765.68,"body":"your palm, and one six or"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1761.81,"endTime":1765.68,"body":"smaller of life size. And you"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1765.68,"endTime":1767.63,"body":"know, nobody, you have to"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1765.68,"endTime":1767.63,"body":"explain that every time you go"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1767.63,"endTime":1770.12,"body":"anywhere because nobody knows"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1767.63,"endTime":1770.12,"body":"what it is. And so you get to"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1770.27,"endTime":1774.65,"body":"see sort of a from a bird's eye"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1770.27,"endTime":1774.65,"body":"view that that whatever you're"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1774.65,"endTime":1778.25,"body":"doing, you're never all that"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1774.65,"endTime":1778.25,"body":"like it humbles you, but it also"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1778.28,"endTime":1781.91,"body":"inspires me to try and get to be"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1778.28,"endTime":1781.91,"body":"better like some of these other"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1781.91,"endTime":1785.69,"body":"people that everybody you know,"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1781.91,"endTime":1785.69,"body":"is rallying around. Not that I"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1785.69,"endTime":1789.35,"body":"want people rallying around me,"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1785.69,"endTime":1789.35,"body":"but I want to be able to have"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1789.5,"endTime":1792.68,"body":"more of their experiences. And"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1789.5,"endTime":1792.68,"body":"it's not about building a"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1792.68,"endTime":1795.32,"body":"resume. Like let's be honest,"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1792.68,"endTime":1795.32,"body":"nobody even looks at resumes"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1795.32,"endTime":1796.73,"body":"anymore. Nobody cares. No,"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":1796.819,"endTime":1799.849,"body":"I mean, I"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":1796.819,"endTime":1799.849,"body":"looked at your resume but but it"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":1799.849,"endTime":1800.599,"body":"was Interview."},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1801.77,"endTime":1803.75,"body":"And even then I"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1801.77,"endTime":1803.75,"body":"guarantee you just skimmed it."},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1803.75,"endTime":1806.12,"body":"It's like what and I only put"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1803.75,"endTime":1806.12,"body":"the last three years down. I"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1806.12,"endTime":1807.26,"body":"didn't even put them, you know,"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":1807.65,"endTime":1809.18,"body":"but other"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":1807.65,"endTime":1809.18,"body":"part is like, damn, this one was"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":1809.18,"endTime":1813.32,"body":"done a lot can only fit the last"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":1809.18,"endTime":1813.32,"body":"few years in the year, that's"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":1813.32,"endTime":1815.0,"body":"already a lot on the list."},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1815.84,"endTime":1818.18,"body":"I like I said, I'm"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1815.84,"endTime":1818.18,"body":"making up for last time, I only"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1818.18,"endTime":1822.05,"body":"have 61. So I only have 43 more"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1818.18,"endTime":1822.05,"body":"years on this life of life."},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1822.17,"endTime":1825.92,"body":"Right? You're still young. Yeah."},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1822.17,"endTime":1825.92,"body":"But but you know, whatever is"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1825.92,"endTime":1828.32,"body":"last on my easel, which now I"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1825.92,"endTime":1828.32,"body":"have a bunch of miniatures out"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1828.32,"endTime":1831.47,"body":"there. But whatever is on my"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1828.32,"endTime":1831.47,"body":"easel, that's the thing that is"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1831.5,"endTime":1835.31,"body":"my resume. That's the most"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1831.5,"endTime":1835.31,"body":"important, right. And so you"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1835.31,"endTime":1838.52,"body":"have at every step of the, when"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1835.31,"endTime":1838.52,"body":"you interact with people in"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1838.52,"endTime":1842.06,"body":"these different societies. At"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1838.52,"endTime":1842.06,"body":"every turn, you have, you know,"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1842.06,"endTime":1844.88,"body":"like, there's a number of"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1842.06,"endTime":1844.88,"body":"societies that are having shows"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1844.88,"endTime":1847.16,"body":"that are coming up, and I'm"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1844.88,"endTime":1847.16,"body":"like, What am I going to paint"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1847.16,"endTime":1850.25,"body":"for this? This is an"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1847.16,"endTime":1850.25,"body":"opportunity, do I Is this my big"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1850.52,"endTime":1853.82,"body":"breakout moment? Or do I just go"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1850.52,"endTime":1853.82,"body":"with something that I know I'll"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1853.82,"endTime":1857.78,"body":"get in probably won't win an"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1853.82,"endTime":1857.78,"body":"award, like, so every, every"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1857.78,"endTime":1859.88,"body":"turn, when you interact? When"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1857.78,"endTime":1859.88,"body":"you have when you're a part of"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1859.88,"endTime":1863.54,"body":"these societies, you're offered"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1859.88,"endTime":1863.54,"body":"up contests in or gatherings or"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1863.54,"endTime":1867.05,"body":"interaction or, you know,"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1863.54,"endTime":1867.05,"body":"potential sales, potential"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1867.05,"endTime":1870.23,"body":"learning opportunities, just"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1867.05,"endTime":1870.23,"body":"whatever, pick something in the"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1870.23,"endTime":1873.59,"body":"art world, you're offered those"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1870.23,"endTime":1873.59,"body":"with societies, which I need"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1873.59,"endTime":1876.17,"body":"things served to me on a plate"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1873.59,"endTime":1876.17,"body":"because I don't cook anymore."},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1876.2,"endTime":1881.24,"body":"Like, I'm clean, I don't cook."},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1876.2,"endTime":1881.24,"body":"All I do is. So, you know, to"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1881.24,"endTime":1884.72,"body":"me, those those societies do"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1881.24,"endTime":1884.72,"body":"that as well. But how about you?"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1884.72,"endTime":1886.28,"body":"What have you found? What do you"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":1886.339,"endTime":1889.039,"body":"Well, I"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":1886.339,"endTime":1889.039,"body":"think I have actually been able"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":1889.039,"endTime":1892.009,"body":"to gain a lot of really great"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":1889.039,"endTime":1892.009,"body":"connections just from going to"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":1892.009,"endTime":1894.859,"body":"these academic schools, because"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":1892.009,"endTime":1894.859,"body":"like you said, you know, the one"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":1894.859,"endTime":1896.959,"body":"name and one of these little"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":1894.859,"endTime":1896.959,"body":"academic schools, it means"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":1896.959,"endTime":1900.799,"body":"absolutely nothing to someone in"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":1896.959,"endTime":1900.799,"body":"a different, you know, side of"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":1900.829,"endTime":1903.859,"body":"realism world. So like I say,"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":1900.829,"endTime":1903.859,"body":"Michael, John Angel, I, I"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":1904.009,"endTime":1909.409,"body":"believe 90% of the people"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":1904.009,"endTime":1909.409,"body":"listening have no idea. Um, I"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":1909.409,"endTime":1917.539,"body":"do. And he's, I love that man."},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":1909.409,"endTime":1917.539,"body":"But again, you know, yeah, it's,"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":1917.539,"endTime":1921.919,"body":"it's the same. And it's such a"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":1917.539,"endTime":1921.919,"body":"small group of people to that,"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":1922.009,"endTime":1924.769,"body":"you know, even on Instagram,"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":1922.009,"endTime":1924.769,"body":"like, it's like, we all connect,"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":1924.799,"endTime":1930.529,"body":"eventually. We all crossed paths"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":1924.799,"endTime":1930.529,"body":"eventually. Especially now that"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":1930.529,"endTime":1933.349,"body":"a lot of like the Grand Central,"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":1930.529,"endTime":1933.349,"body":"actually, people are going to"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":1933.349,"endTime":1935.629,"body":"sound like Gandhi and they're"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":1933.349,"endTime":1935.629,"body":"working more with salmagundi"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":1935.629,"endTime":1938.539,"body":"because Jacob Collins, for"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":1935.629,"endTime":1938.539,"body":"people who don't know, he"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":1938.539,"endTime":1942.169,"body":"founded Grand Central Italy."},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":1938.539,"endTime":1942.169,"body":"Jacob Collins is one of the"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":1942.199,"endTime":1945.109,"body":"biggest patrons and you know,"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":1942.199,"endTime":1945.109,"body":"one of the biggest people who is"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":1945.109,"endTime":1947.929,"body":"part of the salmagundi club, so"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":1945.109,"endTime":1947.929,"body":"of course, he's gonna bring his"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":1947.929,"endTime":1951.079,"body":"little troupe of, of GCA people."},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1951.77,"endTime":1954.23,"body":"President of the"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1951.77,"endTime":1954.23,"body":"club. Yeah. Oh, wow."},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":1954.26,"endTime":1955.43,"body":"Okay, well,"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":1954.26,"endTime":1955.43,"body":"there you go. I"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1955.43,"endTime":1957.98,"body":"saw him I'm like"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1955.43,"endTime":1957.98,"body":"really Waterstreet wasn't enough"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1957.98,"endTime":1960.8,"body":"Grand Central wasn't up now."},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1957.98,"endTime":1960.8,"body":"Now, you're now really, really"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1960.8,"endTime":1961.13,"body":"taken."},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":1963.32,"endTime":1965.03,"body":"But that"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":1963.32,"endTime":1965.03,"body":"goes to show to you know, there"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":1965.03,"endTime":1969.29,"body":"are people like him who can also"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":1965.03,"endTime":1969.29,"body":"carry that torch and help carry"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":1969.29,"endTime":1972.77,"body":"that torch, which I love. And"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":1969.29,"endTime":1972.77,"body":"then also people who have"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":1972.77,"endTime":1975.56,"body":"studied at the schools who start"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":1972.77,"endTime":1975.56,"body":"their own schools and then they"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":1975.56,"endTime":1978.53,"body":"carry the torch. But I think I"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":1975.56,"endTime":1978.53,"body":"that's also one of the reasons"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":1978.53,"endTime":1982.22,"body":"why I want to join to it's the"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":1978.53,"endTime":1982.22,"body":"you know, that they have the"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":1982.22,"endTime":1986.21,"body":"annual I think it's a Hartley"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":1982.22,"endTime":1986.21,"body":"annual exhibition, which is, you"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":1986.21,"endTime":1987.71,"body":"know, everyone put something in"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1988.28,"endTime":1990.05,"body":"to other"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1988.28,"endTime":1990.05,"body":"organizations that I've really"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1990.05,"endTime":1992.6,"body":"enjoyed my time it that I should"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1990.05,"endTime":1992.6,"body":"probably meant mentioned,"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1992.63,"endTime":1996.59,"body":"National Oil and Acrylic"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1992.63,"endTime":1996.59,"body":"Painters society, and also the"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1996.59,"endTime":2000.61,"body":"American women artists, and both"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":1996.59,"endTime":2000.61,"body":"of them are making great strides"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2000.61,"endTime":2004.45,"body":"in showing in galleries and"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2000.61,"endTime":2004.45,"body":"museums and trying to focus more"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2004.45,"endTime":2008.17,"body":"on sales, but also doing online"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2004.45,"endTime":2008.17,"body":"shows. But you look at the work,"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2008.29,"endTime":2012.37,"body":"especially after the pandemic"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2008.29,"endTime":2012.37,"body":"that is going into these shows."},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2012.37,"endTime":2015.64,"body":"And I mean, I'm in the small"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2012.37,"endTime":2015.64,"body":"work show and no EPs and"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2015.64,"endTime":2018.43,"body":"Boulder. I think it opens up in"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2015.64,"endTime":2018.43,"body":"a couple of days here at the"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2018.46,"endTime":2022.09,"body":"Mary Williams Fine Arts Gallery."},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2018.46,"endTime":2022.09,"body":"there am I saying the right"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2022.09,"endTime":2025.81,"body":"gallery, I'm, I'm losing track."},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2022.09,"endTime":2025.81,"body":"And so I just I should probably"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2025.81,"endTime":2028.72,"body":"shouldn't speak because if I"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2025.81,"endTime":2028.72,"body":"just gave the right information,"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2029.02,"endTime":2034.09,"body":"but these shows when you have"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2029.02,"endTime":2034.09,"body":"them, you just I'm in awe of"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2034.09,"endTime":2037.33,"body":"what people are creating now"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2034.09,"endTime":2037.33,"body":"that realism is really taking"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2037.33,"endTime":2040.45,"body":"hold, you know, and you just"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2037.33,"endTime":2040.45,"body":"it's young artists, sometimes"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2040.45,"endTime":2042.88,"body":"who names you've not aware of"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2040.45,"endTime":2042.88,"body":"yet, you know, friends, you have"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2042.88,"endTime":2047.68,"body":"a media. And so I think those"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2042.88,"endTime":2047.68,"body":"societies are a great sort of"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2047.68,"endTime":2050.95,"body":"measure of what's out there and"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2047.68,"endTime":2050.95,"body":"what's trending and what's,"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2050.98,"endTime":2054.52,"body":"where's the world going. You"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2050.98,"endTime":2054.52,"body":"know, in general, it's a good"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2054.52,"endTime":2055.15,"body":"indicator."},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":2055.18,"endTime":2057.52,"body":"Now more"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":2055.18,"endTime":2057.52,"body":"than ever, it's crucial to have"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":2057.52,"endTime":2060.49,"body":"a website when you're an artist,"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":2057.52,"endTime":2060.49,"body":"especially if you want to be"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":2060.49,"endTime":2063.91,"body":"considered a professional in"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":2060.49,"endTime":2063.91,"body":"your career. Thankfully, with"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":2063.91,"endTime":2067.51,"body":"our special link sasa.com"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":2063.91,"endTime":2067.51,"body":"forward slash podcast, you can"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":2067.51,"endTime":2071.38,"body":"make that come true and also get"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":2067.51,"endTime":2071.38,"body":"over 50% off your first year on"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":2071.38,"endTime":2074.62,"body":"your artists website. Yes,"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":2071.38,"endTime":2074.62,"body":"that's basically the price of 12"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":2074.62,"endTime":2077.95,"body":"lattes in one year, which I"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":2074.62,"endTime":2077.95,"body":"think is a really great deal"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":2077.98,"endTime":2081.82,"body":"considering that you get sleek"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":2077.98,"endTime":2081.82,"body":"and beautiful website templates"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":2081.85,"endTime":2085.33,"body":"that are also mobile friendly,"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":2081.85,"endTime":2085.33,"body":"ecommerce print on demand in"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":2085.33,"endTime":2088.54,"body":"certain countries as well as"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":2085.33,"endTime":2088.54,"body":"access to our marketing center"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":2088.6,"endTime":2092.23,"body":"that has our brand new art"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":2088.6,"endTime":2092.23,"body":"marketing calendar. And the art"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":2092.23,"endTime":2094.96,"body":"marketing calendar is something"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":2092.23,"endTime":2094.96,"body":"that you won't get with our"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":2094.96,"endTime":2098.14,"body":"competitor. The art marketing"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":2094.96,"endTime":2098.14,"body":"calendar gives you day by day"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":2098.14,"endTime":2102.07,"body":"step by step guides on What you"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":2098.14,"endTime":2102.07,"body":"should be doing today, right"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":2102.07,"endTime":2105.46,"body":"now, in order to get your"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":2102.07,"endTime":2105.46,"body":"artwork out there and seen by"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":2105.46,"endTime":2109.06,"body":"the right eyes so that you can"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":2105.46,"endTime":2109.06,"body":"make more sales this year. So if"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":2109.06,"endTime":2112.39,"body":"you want to change your life and"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":2109.06,"endTime":2112.39,"body":"actually meet your sales goal"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":2112.39,"endTime":2116.11,"body":"this year, then start by going"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":2112.39,"endTime":2116.11,"body":"to our special Inc faso.com"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":2116.14,"endTime":2121.03,"body":"forward slash podcast. That's s"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":2116.14,"endTime":2121.03,"body":"a s o.com. Forward slash"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":2121.06,"endTime":2124.06,"body":"podcast. BoldBrush would also"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":2121.06,"endTime":2124.06,"body":"like to give a huge thank you"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":2124.09,"endTime":2126.49,"body":"and shout out to Chelsea"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":2124.09,"endTime":2126.49,"body":"classical studio for their"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":2126.49,"endTime":2129.61,"body":"continued support in this"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":2126.49,"endTime":2129.61,"body":"podcast. If you're interested in"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":2129.61,"endTime":2132.34,"body":"archival painting supplies that"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":2129.61,"endTime":2132.34,"body":"are handmade with a lot of"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":2132.34,"endTime":2135.46,"body":"patience, then go check out"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":2132.34,"endTime":2135.46,"body":"their Instagram ad CCS fine art"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":2135.46,"endTime":2140.83,"body":"materials. Yeah, absolutely."},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":2135.46,"endTime":2140.83,"body":"Yeah. And then, do you. So"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":2140.83,"endTime":2145.27,"body":"you've also won a lot of"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":2140.83,"endTime":2145.27,"body":"contests and competitions? And"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":2145.72,"endTime":2147.73,"body":"it's really funny because it"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":2145.72,"endTime":2147.73,"body":"reminds me of two things. One,"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":2148.51,"endTime":2152.8,"body":"your your recent blog post about"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":2148.51,"endTime":2152.8,"body":"just do it, because you you said"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":2152.8,"endTime":2156.58,"body":"this line that I really liked,"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":2152.8,"endTime":2156.58,"body":"which was that you couldn't have"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":2156.61,"endTime":2159.7,"body":"strategized. Really, you"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":2156.61,"endTime":2159.7,"body":"couldn't have imagined the way"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":2159.7,"endTime":2162.82,"body":"that things turned out. Right."},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":2159.7,"endTime":2162.82,"body":"You couldn't have planned at all"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":2162.82,"endTime":2166.39,"body":"how all like how these amazing"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":2162.82,"endTime":2166.39,"body":"accomplishments have happened"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":2166.39,"endTime":2170.05,"body":"for you, if you, you know, if"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":2166.39,"endTime":2170.05,"body":"you hadn't just done any"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":2170.05,"endTime":2175.12,"body":"planned. And I wonder if that"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":2170.05,"endTime":2175.12,"body":"also plays into how you've been"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":2175.12,"endTime":2178.18,"body":"able to participate and win so"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":2175.12,"endTime":2178.18,"body":"many contests? Because you're"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":2178.18,"endTime":2181.12,"body":"just like, why not? You know, do"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":2178.18,"endTime":2181.12,"body":"you find that that's true?"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2181.45,"endTime":2183.28,"body":"I think I think"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2181.45,"endTime":2183.28,"body":"that's true. I think what"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2183.28,"endTime":2186.13,"body":"happens in some of them, like I"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2183.28,"endTime":2186.13,"body":"didn't even enter aarC this"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2186.13,"endTime":2189.4,"body":"year, because I didn't have"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2186.13,"endTime":2189.4,"body":"anything I felt like I I mean,"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2189.4,"endTime":2192.04,"body":"you know, it's, you don't even"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2189.4,"endTime":2192.04,"body":"have debit physical, but I just"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2192.04,"endTime":2195.94,"body":"felt it. I didn't have time. I"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2192.04,"endTime":2195.94,"body":"didn't have whatever. And so in"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2195.94,"endTime":2198.76,"body":"the past, I'm thinking, oh, man,"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2195.94,"endTime":2198.76,"body":"that would have been such a lost"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2198.76,"endTime":2201.79,"body":"opportunity. You know, why"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2198.76,"endTime":2201.79,"body":"wouldn't you but I just, I"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2201.79,"endTime":2204.1,"body":"didn't feel like it. So I"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2201.79,"endTime":2204.1,"body":"didn't, you know, I don't want"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2204.1,"endTime":2209.5,"body":"to, and, but there's things that"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2204.1,"endTime":2209.5,"body":"happened, like, I had 11"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2209.59,"endTime":2213.16,"body":"original pieces of mine are in"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2209.59,"endTime":2213.16,"body":"the Fed and in the granite, the"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2213.19,"endTime":2217.36,"body":"bar in the restaurant area of"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2213.19,"endTime":2217.36,"body":"the Langham Boston Hotel, which"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2217.36,"endTime":2221.5,"body":"is a five star luxury hotel. And"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2217.36,"endTime":2221.5,"body":"this is huge. This is like a"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2221.5,"endTime":2224.71,"body":"career, the Michael Jackson"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2221.5,"endTime":2224.71,"body":"thriller moment, right? What do"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2224.71,"endTime":2228.7,"body":"I do after this kind of thing?"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2224.71,"endTime":2228.7,"body":"And it happened, and it was"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2228.7,"endTime":2231.67,"body":"amazing. And they interviewed me"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2228.7,"endTime":2231.67,"body":"last year, and I got, you know,"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2231.67,"endTime":2234.82,"body":"comped a free night, because of"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2231.67,"endTime":2234.82,"body":"the interview. And then the I'm"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2234.82,"endTime":2239.14,"body":"on their QR code, and, you know,"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2234.82,"endTime":2239.14,"body":"the whole bit. And so this is, I"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2239.14,"endTime":2242.17,"body":"mean, Michael Harding and his"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2239.14,"endTime":2242.17,"body":"wife were apparently stayed at"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2242.17,"endTime":2244.72,"body":"the hotel. And so they knew"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2242.17,"endTime":2244.72,"body":"about, you know, my paintings,"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2244.72,"endTime":2248.86,"body":"and it was, it was a cool, it is"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2244.72,"endTime":2248.86,"body":"a cool experience. But then it"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2248.86,"endTime":2252.31,"body":"happens. And afterwards, it's"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2248.86,"endTime":2252.31,"body":"crickets, you know, you're kind"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2252.31,"endTime":2255.61,"body":"of, and I've heard this from"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2252.31,"endTime":2255.61,"body":"other people who have won things"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2255.61,"endTime":2257.35,"body":"like the British Portrait Award"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2255.61,"endTime":2257.35,"body":"and stuff, where they're just"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2257.35,"endTime":2259.93,"body":"like, okay, you know, where's"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2257.35,"endTime":2259.93,"body":"all the good things that are"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2259.93,"endTime":2263.05,"body":"gonna happen from and you can"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2259.93,"endTime":2263.05,"body":"certainly leverage that you can"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2263.05,"endTime":2265.45,"body":"mention it and leverage it for"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2263.05,"endTime":2265.45,"body":"which I probably haven't done"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2265.45,"endTime":2269.2,"body":"enough of, but you know, for"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2265.45,"endTime":2269.2,"body":"whatever future things, so you"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2269.2,"endTime":2272.74,"body":"can absolutely use it as a"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2269.2,"endTime":2272.74,"body":"marketing tool. But there's"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2272.74,"endTime":2276.82,"body":"nobody that's like the people"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2272.74,"endTime":2276.82,"body":"aren't going to flock to you in"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2276.82,"endTime":2280.09,"body":"the galleries aren't going to"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2276.82,"endTime":2280.09,"body":"line up and the like, it's this"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2280.09,"endTime":2282.49,"body":"myth that if I can only get"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2280.09,"endTime":2282.49,"body":"this, then the all these"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2282.49,"endTime":2285.22,"body":"wonderful things will happen."},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2282.49,"endTime":2285.22,"body":"Nothing catapults you to the top"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2285.22,"endTime":2289.03,"body":"nothing. And so once you realize"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2285.22,"endTime":2289.03,"body":"that, I think and you probably"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2289.03,"endTime":2292.81,"body":"know this, once you realize"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2289.03,"endTime":2292.81,"body":"that, then it doesn't really"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2292.81,"endTime":2296.83,"body":"matter if you do the greatest"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2292.81,"endTime":2296.83,"body":"thing ever. I mean, I don't"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2296.83,"endTime":2299.2,"body":"know, maybe there are some"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2296.83,"endTime":2299.2,"body":"things that you could do that"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2299.2,"endTime":2302.53,"body":"would give you forever"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2299.2,"endTime":2302.53,"body":"residuals, but I haven't"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2302.53,"endTime":2305.44,"body":"discovered them yet. And I"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2302.53,"endTime":2305.44,"body":"haven't experienced them. So"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2305.44,"endTime":2309.58,"body":"knowing that I am only as good"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2305.44,"endTime":2309.58,"body":"as what I'm doing now. And"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2309.73,"endTime":2313.15,"body":"thinking, you know, I want to do"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2309.73,"endTime":2313.15,"body":"I'm doing things for the"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2313.15,"endTime":2316.78,"body":"experiences. So I want to have a"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2313.15,"endTime":2316.78,"body":"fun experience with this, that"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2316.78,"endTime":2319.36,"body":"takes a lot of pressure off of"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2316.78,"endTime":2319.36,"body":"you. If you're always trying to"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2319.36,"endTime":2322.06,"body":"get that exhibition at the Met,"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2319.36,"endTime":2322.06,"body":"then you're going to be a"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2322.06,"endTime":2324.82,"body":"probably or I would be a"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2322.06,"endTime":2324.82,"body":"miserable person trying right?"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2324.88,"endTime":2326.68,"body":"Because every time I've written"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2324.88,"endTime":2326.68,"body":"they've never answered."},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":2328.27,"endTime":2330.04,"body":"Trying"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":2328.27,"endTime":2330.04,"body":"though, right?"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2331.78,"endTime":2334.57,"body":"But if you just do"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2331.78,"endTime":2334.57,"body":"what you think is fun, and what"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2334.57,"endTime":2337.57,"body":"what what's good, I think"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2334.57,"endTime":2337.57,"body":"eventually it's a numbers game"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2337.69,"endTime":2340.21,"body":"is what I believe the more"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2337.69,"endTime":2340.21,"body":"things you enter, the more you"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2340.21,"endTime":2342.97,"body":"win. So if I'm winning a lot,"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2340.21,"endTime":2342.97,"body":"it's because I'm entering a lot"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2343.0,"endTime":2346.63,"body":"you know, and I think it's"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2343.0,"endTime":2346.63,"body":"important and tell me if you"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2346.63,"endTime":2350.08,"body":"agree to enter everything from"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2346.63,"endTime":2350.08,"body":"local contests all the way up"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2350.08,"endTime":2354.52,"body":"into international ones, right?"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2350.08,"endTime":2354.52,"body":"Do a range and then you can see"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2354.61,"endTime":2358.48,"body":"what comes for you. We're in"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2354.61,"endTime":2358.48,"body":"right other rabbit holes you can"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2358.48,"endTime":2359.17,"body":"go down right"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":2359.439,"endTime":2361.629,"body":"yeah, yeah."},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":2359.439,"endTime":2361.629,"body":"And and I guess the other"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":2361.629,"endTime":2364.329,"body":"important thing too is like when"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":2361.629,"endTime":2364.329,"body":"when looking at these"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":2364.329,"endTime":2367.479,"body":"competitions, you know if it's a"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":2364.329,"endTime":2367.479,"body":"if it's a competition for"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":2367.479,"endTime":2370.629,"body":"abstract and you're a realist,"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":2367.479,"endTime":2370.629,"body":"what are you doing? Right?"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2371.35,"endTime":2374.02,"body":"Or photography or"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2371.35,"endTime":2374.02,"body":"AI already been? You know, now?"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2374.05,"endTime":2377.86,"body":"Yes. Do you want to have your"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2374.05,"endTime":2377.86,"body":"work judged against those and"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2377.86,"endTime":2381.16,"body":"you can make that decision but"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2377.86,"endTime":2381.16,"body":"right. And the other thing is to"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2381.22,"endTime":2386.32,"body":"Laura is we have opportunities"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2381.22,"endTime":2386.32,"body":"that are of our own making to"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2386.32,"endTime":2389.71,"body":"like, what's that? Who said, you"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2386.32,"endTime":2389.71,"body":"know, good things come to those"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2389.71,"endTime":2393.19,"body":"who wait but better things come"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2389.71,"endTime":2393.19,"body":"to those who you know, go for"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2393.19,"endTime":2399.1,"body":"it. So, for me, that's been my"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2393.19,"endTime":2399.1,"body":"MO even if I do am doing great"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2399.1,"endTime":2403.06,"body":"things in society. He's in doing"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2399.1,"endTime":2403.06,"body":"good things and winning stuff in"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2403.06,"endTime":2405.82,"body":"different exhibitions and stuff."},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2403.06,"endTime":2405.82,"body":"There's always going to come a"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2405.82,"endTime":2409.15,"body":"time when I feel like nothing"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2405.82,"endTime":2409.15,"body":"I'm really interested as is out"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2409.15,"endTime":2412.66,"body":"there. So I create my own. So"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2409.15,"endTime":2412.66,"body":"I've got two groups of three"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2412.66,"endTime":2416.62,"body":"women each that I've created"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2412.66,"endTime":2416.62,"body":"traveling exhibitions at art"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2416.62,"endTime":2419.65,"body":"museums and exhibits with that"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2416.62,"endTime":2419.65,"body":"are an Art Center's with and so"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2419.65,"endTime":2423.28,"body":"we've had these exhibits, and"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2419.65,"endTime":2423.28,"body":"I've been working for over 10"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2423.28,"endTime":2425.98,"body":"years now, most of these"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2423.28,"endTime":2425.98,"body":"creating relationships with"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2425.98,"endTime":2430.18,"body":"these venues. And don't ask me"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2425.98,"endTime":2430.18,"body":"why I'd never been to Montana."},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2430.21,"endTime":2434.11,"body":"So I'm like, I want to go to"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2430.21,"endTime":2434.11,"body":"Montana. So I pick the most"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2434.11,"endTime":2436.78,"body":"expensive places to ship to and"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2434.11,"endTime":2436.78,"body":"fly to right and the most"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2436.78,"endTime":2441.01,"body":"remote. So not Yellowstone,"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2436.78,"endTime":2441.01,"body":"Montana. No, Deb is going to"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2441.04,"endTime":2444.49,"body":"mile city and Sydney for the"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2441.04,"endTime":2444.49,"body":"Waterworks Art Museum and the"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2444.49,"endTime":2447.4,"body":"mind deck Heritage Center,"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2444.49,"endTime":2447.4,"body":"right. And I love the people"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2447.4,"endTime":2450.07,"body":"there though, because what"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2447.4,"endTime":2450.07,"body":"happens is, you go to these"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2450.07,"endTime":2453.01,"body":"facilities right now we've got a"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2450.07,"endTime":2453.01,"body":"show. It's epic. It's a nine"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2453.01,"endTime":2457.72,"body":"person show. So it's the two"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2453.01,"endTime":2457.72,"body":"groups of three ladies. I'm"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2457.72,"endTime":2459.88,"body":"wondering in both groups, so"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2457.72,"endTime":2459.88,"body":"that's total of five, and then"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2459.88,"endTime":2463.42,"body":"four guest artists, and we're at"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2459.88,"endTime":2463.42,"body":"the Saulsbury on North Carolina"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2463.42,"endTime":2468.94,"body":"until May 26. I think we close"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2463.42,"endTime":2468.94,"body":"waterworks, Visual Art Center"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2468.97,"endTime":2471.94,"body":"Museum, but if you're in the"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2468.97,"endTime":2471.94,"body":"area, it's a beautiful venue go"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2471.94,"endTime":2475.75,"body":"there, no matter who's showing."},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2471.94,"endTime":2475.75,"body":"But you know, when you have"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2475.75,"endTime":2480.01,"body":"these experiences, and you're in"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2475.75,"endTime":2480.01,"body":"small town, America, or we had"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2480.01,"endTime":2483.13,"body":"one in Tokyo, that was amazing,"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2480.01,"endTime":2483.13,"body":"you know, we've got, we've been"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2483.13,"endTime":2487.21,"body":"in lots of different countries"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2483.13,"endTime":2487.21,"body":"and places. And when you have"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2487.21,"endTime":2490.78,"body":"this experience where people"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2487.21,"endTime":2490.78,"body":"come up to you, and they're just"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2490.78,"endTime":2493.42,"body":"like, oh, my gosh, tell me the"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2490.78,"endTime":2493.42,"body":"story behind this. And they've"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2493.42,"endTime":2495.97,"body":"researched you or looked you up"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2493.42,"endTime":2495.97,"body":"a little bit beforehand, and"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2495.97,"endTime":2499.78,"body":"they're just so engaged. And"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2495.97,"endTime":2499.78,"body":"then you go to someplace, and I"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2499.78,"endTime":2503.38,"body":"won't name names, but we've been"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2499.78,"endTime":2503.38,"body":"in large, larger venues where"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2503.38,"endTime":2505.81,"body":"we've been written up by, you"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2503.38,"endTime":2505.81,"body":"know, Washington Post's critics"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2505.81,"endTime":2509.56,"body":"and other people like that. And"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2505.81,"endTime":2509.56,"body":"they're just interested in"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2509.56,"endTime":2512.41,"body":"where's the free wine, you know,"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2509.56,"endTime":2512.41,"body":"or whatever. And, like, they"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2512.41,"endTime":2515.5,"body":"don't really pay too much"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2512.41,"endTime":2515.5,"body":"attention to you, you like don't"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2515.5,"endTime":2519.76,"body":"discount the small, rural, you"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2515.5,"endTime":2519.76,"body":"know, places where the"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2519.76,"endTime":2523.63,"body":"communities gather around their"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2519.76,"endTime":2523.63,"body":"art worlds. You know, for me,"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2523.63,"endTime":2526.87,"body":"it's like the towns that have a"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2523.63,"endTime":2526.87,"body":"whole bunch of murals, and a few"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2526.87,"endTime":2529.15,"body":"art galleries and art centers,"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2526.87,"endTime":2529.15,"body":"even though there's only maybe"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2529.15,"endTime":2532.51,"body":"3000 people there, you know,"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2529.15,"endTime":2532.51,"body":"those are the ones that I feel"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2532.51,"endTime":2535.78,"body":"like we've had really good"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2532.51,"endTime":2535.78,"body":"experiences in. And so this is"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2535.78,"endTime":2539.8,"body":"what we've done is we've just"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2535.78,"endTime":2539.8,"body":"created our own society in a way"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2539.8,"endTime":2544.33,"body":"in our own, you know, collector"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2539.8,"endTime":2544.33,"body":"base, and, you know, the people"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2544.33,"endTime":2546.61,"body":"that run these venues come and"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2544.33,"endTime":2546.61,"body":"go, and so you kind of get to"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2546.61,"endTime":2549.07,"body":"know them and their families and"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2546.61,"endTime":2549.07,"body":"their stories and stuff. And"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2549.49,"endTime":2552.64,"body":"that, for me is a big part of my"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2549.49,"endTime":2552.64,"body":"art world. And it's of my of my"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2552.64,"endTime":2555.34,"body":"own making, like, I didn't wait"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2552.64,"endTime":2555.34,"body":"for someone to come and do that."},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":2555.46,"endTime":2557.5,"body":"So yeah,"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":2555.46,"endTime":2557.5,"body":"you're the one providing the"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":2557.5,"endTime":2560.98,"body":"opportunities now, which I think"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":2557.5,"endTime":2560.98,"body":"that's, that's such a wonderful,"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":2561.04,"endTime":2564.52,"body":"you know, full circle of like,"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":2561.04,"endTime":2564.52,"body":"you started somewhere, and then"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":2564.52,"endTime":2566.56,"body":"you found these opportunities,"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":2564.52,"endTime":2566.56,"body":"and then you got to the point"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":2566.56,"endTime":2569.17,"body":"where you can give those"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":2566.56,"endTime":2569.17,"body":"opportunities, you know, and I"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":2569.17,"endTime":2573.1,"body":"think that is, you know, that's"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":2569.17,"endTime":2573.1,"body":"really the paying it forward"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":2573.1,"endTime":2574.51,"body":"thing. And I love that."},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2575.2,"endTime":2577.81,"body":"But it takes time,"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2575.2,"endTime":2577.81,"body":"it doesn't happen overnight. And"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2577.81,"endTime":2579.82,"body":"that's what happens is people"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2577.81,"endTime":2579.82,"body":"will do it once. And they'll be"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2579.82,"endTime":2582.76,"body":"like, Oh, we didn't get any"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2579.82,"endTime":2582.76,"body":"sales there. So whatever. But"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2582.79,"endTime":2585.31,"body":"I'll tell you a great things"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2582.79,"endTime":2585.31,"body":"happen. And you know, I've got"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2585.31,"endTime":2588.19,"body":"wine labels, I've got, you know,"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2585.31,"endTime":2588.19,"body":"sales, now I've got, you know,"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2588.19,"endTime":2591.58,"body":"provenance in these places that,"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2588.19,"endTime":2591.58,"body":"you know, originally people"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2591.61,"endTime":2594.46,"body":"maybe would have poo pooed. And"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2591.61,"endTime":2594.46,"body":"I mean, you can poopoo it and go"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2594.46,"endTime":2597.79,"body":"and keep trying for this. But I"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2594.46,"endTime":2597.79,"body":"kind of like it over here. You"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2597.79,"endTime":2599.47,"body":"know, you can zig and zag. We're"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2597.79,"endTime":2599.47,"body":"good."},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":2600.28,"endTime":2603.34,"body":"Yeah, yeah."},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":2600.28,"endTime":2603.34,"body":"And again, that really brings up"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":2603.34,"endTime":2608.2,"body":"again, that whole, you know, you"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":2603.34,"endTime":2608.2,"body":"could not have planned any of"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":2608.2,"endTime":2612.55,"body":"those opportunities at all. And"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":2608.2,"endTime":2612.55,"body":"I love that, Oh, my God, it's"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":2612.55,"endTime":2615.4,"body":"like, you know, you just, it's"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":2612.55,"endTime":2615.4,"body":"funny, because it reminds me of"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":2615.4,"endTime":2618.07,"body":"a conversation that I had a"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":2615.4,"endTime":2618.07,"body":"couple of weeks ago with"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":2618.07,"endTime":2622.6,"body":"Christopher Remmers. And Clint,"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":2618.07,"endTime":2622.6,"body":"where we spoke about entropy and"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":2622.6,"endTime":2625.69,"body":"chaos. And I feel like, you"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":2622.6,"endTime":2625.69,"body":"know, how you're describing"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":2625.69,"endTime":2629.2,"body":"these opportunities, you know,"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":2625.69,"endTime":2629.2,"body":"we try to make things as perfect"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":2629.2,"endTime":2633.1,"body":"as we can we think we have these"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":2629.2,"endTime":2633.1,"body":"amazing plans, and we have to"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":2633.1,"endTime":2637.54,"body":"fulfill them. But what if we"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":2633.1,"endTime":2637.54,"body":"just follow a little bit of that"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":2637.54,"endTime":2643.03,"body":"chaos, and then we allow it to"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":2637.54,"endTime":2643.03,"body":"guide us into something even"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":2643.18,"endTime":2644.8,"body":"more amazing, you know,"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2644.95,"endTime":2647.29,"body":"and that's my art"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2644.95,"endTime":2647.29,"body":"process to as you're describing"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2647.29,"endTime":2650.05,"body":"it, again, we're saying and part"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2647.29,"endTime":2650.05,"body":"of this conversation was about"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2650.05,"endTime":2653.14,"body":"how everything always comes back"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2650.05,"endTime":2653.14,"body":"to the art for me, that's so"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2653.17,"endTime":2657.34,"body":"true, because I need that"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2653.17,"endTime":2657.34,"body":"abstract, crazy, chaotic"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2657.37,"endTime":2660.61,"body":"underpinning that I can then"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2657.37,"endTime":2660.61,"body":"find my realism. I don't care"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2660.61,"endTime":2663.67,"body":"how good a drawing I have, I"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2660.61,"endTime":2663.67,"body":"don't care how good like how,"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2663.7,"endTime":2669.04,"body":"you know, perfect. My original"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2663.7,"endTime":2669.04,"body":"concept is, I never want it,"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2669.1,"endTime":2672.55,"body":"whatever. And this is just me,"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2669.1,"endTime":2672.55,"body":"but I never want what I paint to"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2672.55,"endTime":2675.67,"body":"look like what I started with. I"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2672.55,"endTime":2675.67,"body":"want it to have its own little"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2675.67,"endTime":2678.64,"body":"happy accidents is you know, to"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2675.67,"endTime":2678.64,"body":"quote Bob Ross or whatever. But,"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2679.0,"endTime":2683.02,"body":"you know, if I don't if I don't"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2679.0,"endTime":2683.02,"body":"have it, if it's not a two way"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2683.02,"endTime":2687.34,"body":"street and that chaos isn't"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2683.02,"endTime":2687.34,"body":"feeding my art, then I feel like"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2687.34,"endTime":2690.34,"body":"I don't have those problems to"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2687.34,"endTime":2690.34,"body":"solve and those sorts of"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2691.03,"endTime":2694.39,"body":"challenges along the way and"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2691.03,"endTime":2694.39,"body":"it's not as good now that's me,"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2694.42,"endTime":2697.57,"body":"but you know, it probably is"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2694.42,"endTime":2697.57,"body":"just as good. So I'm not saying"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2697.6,"endTime":2700.84,"body":"but for me, I just have to work"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2697.6,"endTime":2700.84,"body":"through that. In order for it to"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2700.84,"endTime":2703.99,"body":"feel like it was a worthwhile"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2700.84,"endTime":2703.99,"body":"experience, and so yeah, I"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2703.99,"endTime":2707.08,"body":"totally get what you're saying"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2703.99,"endTime":2707.08,"body":"about the chaos plays into"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":2707.74,"endTime":2710.26,"body":"it does, it"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":2707.74,"endTime":2710.26,"body":"plays into all of our lives, you"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":2710.26,"endTime":2712.9,"body":"know, from the art to what we're"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":2710.26,"endTime":2712.9,"body":"going to have for dinner,"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":2712.9,"endTime":2714.82,"body":"sometimes, you know, you can"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":2712.9,"endTime":2714.82,"body":"plan dinner out, and then"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":2714.82,"endTime":2716.83,"body":"sometimes, you know, you have"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":2714.82,"endTime":2716.83,"body":"like five things in the"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":2716.83,"endTime":2719.14,"body":"refrigerator, and then you"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":2716.83,"endTime":2719.14,"body":"realize, oh, I could cook this,"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":2719.17,"endTime":2721.78,"body":"and you would not have thought"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":2719.17,"endTime":2721.78,"body":"about that, you know, you know,"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2721.78,"endTime":2724.93,"body":"so much of it,"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2721.78,"endTime":2724.93,"body":"too, is being able to pivot on"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2724.93,"endTime":2727.18,"body":"that chaos, right. And that's"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2724.93,"endTime":2727.18,"body":"what chaos brings to you is the"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2727.18,"endTime":2730.75,"body":"opportunities to pivot. Because"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2727.18,"endTime":2730.75,"body":"I mean, like, the pandemic is a"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2731.11,"endTime":2734.44,"body":"glaring example of how we all"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2731.11,"endTime":2734.44,"body":"had a pivot to make that work,"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2734.44,"endTime":2738.01,"body":"right. But in some ways, not"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2734.44,"endTime":2738.01,"body":"that I would ever wish a"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2738.01,"endTime":2743.17,"body":"pandemic on anybody, but in some"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2738.01,"endTime":2743.17,"body":"ways, I think people will say,"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2743.2,"endTime":2746.14,"body":"Wow, I mean, if not for that,"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2743.2,"endTime":2746.14,"body":"then these good things wouldn't"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2746.14,"endTime":2749.17,"body":"have happened, right? I mean, I"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2746.14,"endTime":2749.17,"body":"know, for me, in my business, I"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2749.17,"endTime":2752.29,"body":"had to streamline things, I had"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2749.17,"endTime":2752.29,"body":"to rethink things I had, I'm"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2752.29,"endTime":2756.01,"body":"doing things totally different"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2752.29,"endTime":2756.01,"body":"now than it was in 2019. And"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2756.04,"endTime":2757.54,"body":"that's not a bad thing. You"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2756.04,"endTime":2757.54,"body":"know?"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":2757.66,"endTime":2760.45,"body":"No, I mean,"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":2757.66,"endTime":2760.45,"body":"that's the, you know, the, the"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":2760.54,"endTime":2764.68,"body":"alchemy, you know, of turning"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":2760.54,"endTime":2764.68,"body":"lead into gold. I mean, I think"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":2764.68,"endTime":2767.89,"body":"that's what it really comes down"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":2764.68,"endTime":2767.89,"body":"to, and, you know, the whole"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":2767.89,"endTime":2770.65,"body":"like, oh, you know, you win all"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":2767.89,"endTime":2770.65,"body":"these competitions, and, you"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":2770.65,"endTime":2773.29,"body":"know, you're happy. And then now"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":2770.65,"endTime":2773.29,"body":"what, you know, it's, I think,"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":2773.32,"endTime":2777.1,"body":"you know, it's, it's more like,"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":2773.32,"endTime":2777.1,"body":"it's for the craft, you know,"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":2777.1,"endTime":2780.31,"body":"it's for the, like, yeah, people"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":2777.1,"endTime":2780.31,"body":"see it. And that completes the"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":2780.31,"endTime":2782.44,"body":"painting, you know, I believe"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":2780.31,"endTime":2782.44,"body":"that a painting isn't really"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":2782.44,"endTime":2786.97,"body":"complete until it's seen, then"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":2782.44,"endTime":2786.97,"body":"it's like God exists. It has a"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":2787.0,"endTime":2789.43,"body":"an observer, you know, kind of"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":2787.0,"endTime":2789.43,"body":"like in quantum physics, it's,"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":2789.46,"endTime":2793.15,"body":"there's no observer, it doesn't"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":2789.46,"endTime":2793.15,"body":"exist. So it's like this"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":2793.15,"endTime":2796.42,"body":"relationship. And then when you"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":2793.15,"endTime":2796.42,"body":"do have that observer, you know,"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":2796.42,"endTime":2799.57,"body":"in these competitions, it"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":2796.42,"endTime":2799.57,"body":"completes it. And then it's, it"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":2799.57,"endTime":2802.36,"body":"should always be for the crafts."},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":2799.57,"endTime":2802.36,"body":"I mean, yeah, like you said"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":2802.36,"endTime":2805.63,"body":"earlier, there are some people"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":2802.36,"endTime":2805.63,"body":"who they do the whole art is"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":2805.63,"endTime":2810.28,"body":"whatever you can get away with"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":2805.63,"endTime":2810.28,"body":"thing. That's fine strategy. But"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":2810.28,"endTime":2814.06,"body":"for the people who are in love"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":2810.28,"endTime":2814.06,"body":"with the craft, and can't"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":2814.15,"endTime":2817.18,"body":"imagine a single day of their"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":2814.15,"endTime":2817.18,"body":"lives without it, yeah, you"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":2817.18,"endTime":2819.01,"body":"know, maybe you want a"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":2817.18,"endTime":2819.01,"body":"competition, but the real"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":2819.04,"endTime":2822.04,"body":"completion is, you know, that,"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":2819.04,"endTime":2822.04,"body":"first of all, you know, the"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":2822.04,"endTime":2825.16,"body":"icing. And second of all, if"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":2822.04,"endTime":2825.16,"body":"it's part of a society or a"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":2825.16,"endTime":2828.1,"body":"group of people, you also, you"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":2825.16,"endTime":2828.1,"body":"know, get that little"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":2828.43,"endTime":2833.11,"body":"recognition from that group of,"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":2828.43,"endTime":2833.11,"body":"hey, you exist. You know,"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2833.14,"endTime":2835.78,"body":"I mean, I'll tell"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2833.14,"endTime":2835.78,"body":"you with, in the CCO GAP"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2835.78,"endTime":2841.21,"body":"program, I did win the Best of"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2835.78,"endTime":2841.21,"body":"Show 2022, and the George grey"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2841.21,"endTime":2843.91,"body":"award, and I'm so grateful for"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2841.21,"endTime":2843.91,"body":"that. Now, I feel like I should"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2843.91,"endTime":2846.49,"body":"have said that earlier. But"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2843.91,"endTime":2846.49,"body":"honestly, it wasn't even on my"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2846.49,"endTime":2850.42,"body":"mind. But that's why I got the"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2846.49,"endTime":2850.42,"body":"opportunity to go on the"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2850.9,"endTime":2854.92,"body":"residency with the cutter. And"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2850.9,"endTime":2854.92,"body":"so it was because a Navy Captain"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2854.92,"endTime":2857.65,"body":"saw the show, and he was moved"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2854.92,"endTime":2857.65,"body":"to tears. He's like, How can I"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2857.65,"endTime":2860.59,"body":"contribute? What can I do to"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2857.65,"endTime":2860.59,"body":"help and so these sent me for a"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2860.59,"endTime":2864.19,"body":"week and this cutter, our"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2860.59,"endTime":2864.19,"body":"expenses paid. And so that was"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2864.25,"endTime":2867.46,"body":"what I like that, you know, out"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2864.25,"endTime":2867.46,"body":"of that experience, it was"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2867.46,"endTime":2870.76,"body":"wonderful to get that award. But"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2867.46,"endTime":2870.76,"body":"that wasn't what I remember,"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2870.76,"endTime":2875.77,"body":"right? It's all about the the"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2870.76,"endTime":2875.77,"body":"residency experience, or talking"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2875.77,"endTime":2880.0,"body":"about the postcard art program,"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2875.77,"endTime":2880.0,"body":"the CO get program, when you go"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2880.0,"endTime":2883.33,"body":"to their receptions, which"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2880.0,"endTime":2883.33,"body":"unfortunately, I'm double"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2883.33,"endTime":2885.31,"body":"booked, so I'm not gonna be able"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2883.33,"endTime":2885.31,"body":"to make it this year, but they"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2885.31,"endTime":2888.04,"body":"have a private reception for"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2885.31,"endTime":2888.04,"body":"just the artists and their plus"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2888.04,"endTime":2891.16,"body":"ones. On July 13, that's going"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2888.04,"endTime":2891.16,"body":"to be happening. And then the"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2891.16,"endTime":2895.45,"body":"show is going to hang there for"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2891.16,"endTime":2895.45,"body":"a month. salmagundi club is like"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2895.45,"endTime":2900.52,"body":"Gallery, and I think that's the"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2895.45,"endTime":2900.52,"body":"name of the gallery. And they"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2900.52,"endTime":2902.86,"body":"have the admirals calm. And"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2900.52,"endTime":2902.86,"body":"they're going to have Linda"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2902.86,"endTime":2905.53,"body":"Fagan, who's the Kommandant. So"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2902.86,"endTime":2905.53,"body":"she's the person in charge of"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2905.53,"endTime":2908.53,"body":"the entire coast guard currently"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2905.53,"endTime":2908.53,"body":"selected for your position. And"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2908.56,"endTime":2910.9,"body":"so she's in charge of all the"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2908.56,"endTime":2910.9,"body":"admirals right. That's gonna be"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2910.9,"endTime":2912.97,"body":"there this year. And so you here"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2910.9,"endTime":2912.97,"body":"with all these important people,"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2913.03,"endTime":2915.88,"body":"and when I've been there, in"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2913.03,"endTime":2915.88,"body":"previous years, they've come"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2915.91,"endTime":2918.28,"body":"they've come up at admirals have"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2915.91,"endTime":2918.28,"body":"come up to me with tears in"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2918.28,"endTime":2922.39,"body":"their eyes saying, You painted"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2918.28,"endTime":2922.39,"body":"our story. And this is I want to"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2922.39,"endTime":2924.7,"body":"share with you this was an"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2922.39,"endTime":2924.7,"body":"experience that I had, and you"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2924.7,"endTime":2927.22,"body":"were right, you reminded me of"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2924.7,"endTime":2927.22,"body":"it, or this looks just like"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2927.22,"endTime":2930.61,"body":"whatever. And so when I was on"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2927.22,"endTime":2930.61,"body":"that residency, I'm like, I want"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2930.61,"endTime":2933.91,"body":"to paint the things that make"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2930.61,"endTime":2933.91,"body":"admirals cry. So you get on that"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2933.91,"endTime":2936.16,"body":"pipe. And you call for Deborah,"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2933.91,"endTime":2936.16,"body":"curious, whenever you think"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2936.16,"endTime":2939.28,"body":"there's something that I should"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2936.16,"endTime":2939.28,"body":"be, you know, taking sketches or"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2939.28,"endTime":2941.95,"body":"photographs of that make would"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2939.28,"endTime":2941.95,"body":"make an animal cry, you know."},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2942.28,"endTime":2946.93,"body":"And that's what I see as my job."},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2942.28,"endTime":2946.93,"body":"It's not my job isn't to win. My"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2946.93,"endTime":2950.68,"body":"job is to connect with humanity"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2946.93,"endTime":2950.68,"body":"through my art, like I'm just an"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2950.68,"endTime":2955.03,"body":"instrument and then the art has"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2950.68,"endTime":2955.03,"body":"this capacity in a way that"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2955.03,"endTime":2958.78,"body":"engineering never did. Like any"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2955.03,"endTime":2958.78,"body":"other walk, I've been in my in"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2958.78,"endTime":2962.11,"body":"my life has never been able to"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2958.78,"endTime":2962.11,"body":"touch people's hearts as much as"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2962.11,"endTime":2965.95,"body":"my art has. And so for me, if I"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2962.11,"endTime":2965.95,"body":"can be the instrument that"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2965.95,"endTime":2969.04,"body":"creates that feeling that"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2965.95,"endTime":2969.04,"body":"experience that that's the"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2969.04,"endTime":2971.95,"body":"definition of fine art. It's"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2969.04,"endTime":2971.95,"body":"decorative art. If it doesn't do"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":2971.95,"endTime":2973.39,"body":"that, I feel like you know,"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":2973.42,"endTime":2977.23,"body":"I agree. So,"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":2973.42,"endTime":2977.23,"body":"yes, yeah. And you know, to"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":2977.23,"endTime":2979.36,"body":"mention Michael John, Angelique,"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":2977.23,"endTime":2979.36,"body":"and he actually says the same"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":2979.36,"endTime":2983.14,"body":"thing. It's like people, people"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":2979.36,"endTime":2983.14,"body":"want art that moves them. And"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":2983.26,"endTime":2986.8,"body":"your art does that clearly."},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":2983.26,"endTime":2986.8,"body":"Which is, I mean, I think that's"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":2986.8,"endTime":2989.53,"body":"the greatest goal to attain as"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":2986.8,"endTime":2989.53,"body":"an artist. It's not just you"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":2989.53,"endTime":2992.8,"body":"know, improving at your craft."},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":2989.53,"endTime":2992.8,"body":"So yes, but if you improve at"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":2992.8,"endTime":2996.55,"body":"your craft with the intention of"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":2992.8,"endTime":2996.55,"body":"moving people, you know, making"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":2996.55,"endTime":3001.56,"body":"them feel something to connect"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":2996.55,"endTime":3001.56,"body":"with that Greater human"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":3001.56,"endTime":3005.01,"body":"consciousness, then it's bad as"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":3001.56,"endTime":3005.01,"body":"a masterpiece, you know,"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3005.1,"endTime":3007.35,"body":"and knowing that"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3005.1,"endTime":3007.35,"body":"not everybody's gonna connect"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3007.35,"endTime":3010.05,"body":"with it. No, not everyone. I"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3007.35,"endTime":3010.05,"body":"know my neighbors like, Deb, we"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3010.05,"endTime":3013.14,"body":"want to support you. But we have"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3010.05,"endTime":3013.14,"body":"great pictures of our dogs. So"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3013.14,"endTime":3015.45,"body":"we don't see any reason to have"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3013.14,"endTime":3015.45,"body":"you paint them, I'm like, that's"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3015.45,"endTime":3019.14,"body":"fine. You are not my pets, if"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3015.45,"endTime":3019.14,"body":"you're an eye collector, enjoy"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3019.14,"endTime":3022.68,"body":"your pictures, I get it, you"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3019.14,"endTime":3022.68,"body":"know, like, that's that art form"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3022.68,"endTime":3025.71,"body":"doesn't appeal to you, that's"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3022.68,"endTime":3025.71,"body":"fine. You like you don't have I"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3025.71,"endTime":3030.21,"body":"think sometimes artists will try"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3025.71,"endTime":3030.21,"body":"so hard to connect with every"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3030.21,"endTime":3033.0,"body":"person that they encounter. And"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3030.21,"endTime":3033.0,"body":"then they get discouraged,"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3033.0,"endTime":3035.94,"body":"because I don't know, they're at"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3033.0,"endTime":3035.94,"body":"a restaurant and they're not"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3035.94,"endTime":3038.52,"body":"selling their art. Well, people"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3035.94,"endTime":3038.52,"body":"didn't come there to buy art,"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3038.52,"endTime":3041.67,"body":"they came there to eat right?"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3038.52,"endTime":3041.67,"body":"Or, you know, maybe they're"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3041.67,"endTime":3043.77,"body":"just, you know, a lover of a"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3041.67,"endTime":3043.77,"body":"different type of art or"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3043.77,"endTime":3048.45,"body":"whatever. So, I think what I've"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3043.77,"endTime":3048.45,"body":"found, and you can tell me if"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3048.45,"endTime":3051.33,"body":"this has been your experience is"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3048.45,"endTime":3051.33,"body":"you just have to do what you do."},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3051.33,"endTime":3054.72,"body":"And then the people come to you,"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3051.33,"endTime":3054.72,"body":"you know, people say find your,"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3054.81,"endTime":3058.98,"body":"your signature, style, or"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3054.81,"endTime":3058.98,"body":"whatever. I'm like, No, I'm just"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3058.98,"endTime":3062.46,"body":"doing what I love. And then my"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3058.98,"endTime":3062.46,"body":"signature style finds me, you"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3062.46,"endTime":3066.39,"body":"know, and so I think it's, we"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3062.46,"endTime":3066.39,"body":"sometimes have it backwards,"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3066.39,"endTime":3070.44,"body":"because we're in in, in a race"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3066.39,"endTime":3070.44,"body":"to that almighty dollar, right?"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3070.83,"endTime":3074.7,"body":"Unfortunately, it doesn't serve"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3070.83,"endTime":3074.7,"body":"you well, if you'd only trying"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3074.7,"endTime":3078.09,"body":"to get the awards and the"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3074.7,"endTime":3078.09,"body":"dollars, I understand people"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3078.09,"endTime":3080.49,"body":"that have to, you know, feed"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3078.09,"endTime":3080.49,"body":"themselves and pay their"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3080.49,"endTime":3083.28,"body":"mortgages, but quite honestly, I"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3080.49,"endTime":3083.28,"body":"could make more money as a"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3083.28,"endTime":3085.98,"body":"Starbucks manager, or go back"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3083.28,"endTime":3085.98,"body":"into engineering and have six"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3085.98,"endTime":3089.73,"body":"fingers again, if I wanted to,"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3085.98,"endTime":3089.73,"body":"and I don't know, so you have to"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3089.73,"endTime":3093.45,"body":"make those realistic choices."},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3089.73,"endTime":3093.45,"body":"And for me, it's like, I just"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3093.45,"endTime":3094.8,"body":"want to make admirals cry."},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":3096.81,"endTime":3099.42,"body":"Oh, my God,"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":3096.81,"endTime":3099.42,"body":"I love that I that should be the"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":3099.42,"endTime":3104.91,"body":"title of the episode, I just"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":3099.42,"endTime":3104.91,"body":"want to make admirals cry. Oh,"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":3104.91,"endTime":3109.65,"body":"that's fantastic. But it's true."},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":3104.91,"endTime":3109.65,"body":"And I think that speaks to Yeah,"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":3109.65,"endTime":3113.64,"body":"it speaks to that. It's not for"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":3109.65,"endTime":3113.64,"body":"the money, it's for the craft,"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":3113.64,"endTime":3115.92,"body":"it's like, you know, a lot of"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":3113.64,"endTime":3115.92,"body":"artists, you know, they're,"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":3116.04,"endTime":3119.64,"body":"maybe they're on the fence about"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":3116.04,"endTime":3119.64,"body":"jumping full time on it. And I"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":3119.67,"endTime":3123.12,"body":"would tell them, if you really"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":3119.67,"endTime":3123.12,"body":"can't afford it, and don't like"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":3123.12,"endTime":3126.27,"body":"keep your day job, paint when"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":3123.12,"endTime":3126.27,"body":"you can, and that's fine. And"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":3126.27,"endTime":3130.2,"body":"then you know, you can decide"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":3126.27,"endTime":3130.2,"body":"down the line, if you build this"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":3130.2,"endTime":3133.2,"body":"collector base, you build these,"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":3130.2,"endTime":3133.2,"body":"these true fans, as they call"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":3133.2,"endTime":3136.56,"body":"them. Then down the line, when"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":3133.2,"endTime":3136.56,"body":"you see oh, this was really you"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":3136.56,"endTime":3140.49,"body":"know, bringing something, don't"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":3136.56,"endTime":3140.49,"body":"let the money kill the dream."},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":3140.52,"endTime":3143.13,"body":"You know, it's so sad."},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3143.67,"endTime":3146.07,"body":"And we've all CAD"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3143.67,"endTime":3146.07,"body":"those art instructors,"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3146.07,"endTime":3148.29,"body":"unfortunately, or people"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3146.07,"endTime":3148.29,"body":"teaching workshops, who you're"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3148.29,"endTime":3151.11,"body":"like, you're not loving this,"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3148.29,"endTime":3151.11,"body":"you're only doing this for the"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3151.11,"endTime":3153.33,"body":"money, I can just tell you"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3151.11,"endTime":3153.33,"body":"rather, like you should just"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3153.33,"endTime":3155.82,"body":"have a T shirt that says I'd"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3153.33,"endTime":3155.82,"body":"rather be painting in my own"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3155.82,"endTime":3158.43,"body":"studio all alone or something,"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3155.82,"endTime":3158.43,"body":"you know, and you don't want to"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3158.43,"endTime":3161.58,"body":"ever become one of those people,"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3158.43,"endTime":3161.58,"body":"I don't think you want to always"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3161.58,"endTime":3166.02,"body":"have your, you know, pay your"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3161.58,"endTime":3166.02,"body":"mortgage, do what you got to do."},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3166.11,"endTime":3168.48,"body":"And if it's teaching, that's"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3166.11,"endTime":3168.48,"body":"great. But if you're not in love"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3168.48,"endTime":3170.82,"body":"with teaching, find a way to do"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3168.48,"endTime":3170.82,"body":"it, maybe where you love it"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3170.82,"endTime":3174.15,"body":"more, or leave enough time in"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3170.82,"endTime":3174.15,"body":"your life that you can still do"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3174.15,"endTime":3177.57,"body":"your creative pursuits. Because"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3174.15,"endTime":3177.57,"body":"I think if you bottles up, it"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3177.57,"endTime":3180.87,"body":"makes you crazy. Like we go, I"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3177.57,"endTime":3180.87,"body":"actually walk dogs in the middle"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3180.87,"endTime":3183.84,"body":"of every day just so I can stay"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3180.87,"endTime":3183.84,"body":"human because I need to interact"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3183.84,"endTime":3186.42,"body":"with something mammalian"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3183.84,"endTime":3186.42,"body":"otherwise, I find that I go"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3186.42,"endTime":3190.35,"body":"nuts. So like I and Kevin"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3186.42,"endTime":3190.35,"body":"McPherson was talking about"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3190.35,"endTime":3193.89,"body":"this, how he lives in a very"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3190.35,"endTime":3193.89,"body":"remote area of Taos on this"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3193.89,"endTime":3196.95,"body":"beautiful lake where he can like"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3193.89,"endTime":3196.95,"body":"a community of 40 people where"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3196.95,"endTime":3199.83,"body":"he doesn't see anybody for two"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3196.95,"endTime":3199.83,"body":"weeks. And then he went off and"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3199.83,"endTime":3202.32,"body":"did all those excursions in"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3199.83,"endTime":3202.32,"body":"Shanghai, right? Where there's"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3202.32,"endTime":3206.94,"body":"24 million people all in one"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3202.32,"endTime":3206.94,"body":"space and China. Right. And he"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3206.94,"endTime":3210.57,"body":"was talking about what a culture"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3206.94,"endTime":3210.57,"body":"shock that is, and it's true, I"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3210.57,"endTime":3216.3,"body":"think, you know, we just can get"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3210.57,"endTime":3216.3,"body":"so in our own head that it gets"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3216.3,"endTime":3219.96,"body":"scary. So we need to break out"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3216.3,"endTime":3219.96,"body":"and get into the 24 million"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3219.96,"endTime":3222.78,"body":"people cities every once in a"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3219.96,"endTime":3222.78,"body":"while just so that we can still"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3222.78,"endTime":3225.06,"body":"connect with, you know, the"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3222.78,"endTime":3225.06,"body":"people that we're creating our"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3225.06,"endTime":3225.66,"body":"for?"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":3226.08,"endTime":3230.25,"body":"Yeah, yeah,"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":3226.08,"endTime":3230.25,"body":"I think Yeah. It's so normal for"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":3230.25,"endTime":3233.79,"body":"artists to isolate themselves"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":3230.25,"endTime":3233.79,"body":"to, it's like, we need it, we"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":3233.79,"endTime":3238.41,"body":"need it for that fertile"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":3233.79,"endTime":3238.41,"body":"breeding ground of ideas and"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":3238.41,"endTime":3242.13,"body":"silence and, you know,"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":3238.41,"endTime":3242.13,"body":"perspective, because it's"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":3242.13,"endTime":3244.47,"body":"almost, I don't know if this"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":3242.13,"endTime":3244.47,"body":"happens to you, too. I mean, a"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":3244.47,"endTime":3247.92,"body":"lot of like, you know, realism"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":3244.47,"endTime":3247.92,"body":"is about narrative, it's about"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":3247.92,"endTime":3252.27,"body":"storytelling, it's about, you"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":3247.92,"endTime":3252.27,"body":"know, it's like this, this inner"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":3252.36,"endTime":3256.38,"body":"imagery that tells a story that"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":3252.36,"endTime":3256.38,"body":"just comes out, right. And you"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":3256.38,"endTime":3261.06,"body":"can't do that, if you're always"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":3256.38,"endTime":3261.06,"body":"doing things that you know, it's"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":3261.06,"endTime":3263.82,"body":"like, it's hard to do unless you"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":3261.06,"endTime":3263.82,"body":"find that silence and that space"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":3263.82,"endTime":3269.34,"body":"and that meditation. But then"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":3263.82,"endTime":3269.34,"body":"equally, you need to go out to"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":3269.46,"endTime":3272.85,"body":"allow your brain to, you know,"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":3269.46,"endTime":3272.85,"body":"experience all of these these"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":3272.85,"endTime":3275.76,"body":"things to create the stories in"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":3272.85,"endTime":3275.76,"body":"the first book. So it's a"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":3275.76,"endTime":3276.6,"body":"balance, you know,"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3276.72,"endTime":3278.82,"body":"and what I find,"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3276.72,"endTime":3278.82,"body":"you know, we talked before about"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3278.82,"endTime":3281.91,"body":"societies and getting involved"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3278.82,"endTime":3281.91,"body":"with, you know, groups and"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3281.97,"endTime":3285.0,"body":"physically being there with"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3281.97,"endTime":3285.0,"body":"people to kind of ground"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3285.0,"endTime":3290.28,"body":"yourself regularly. What I find"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3285.0,"endTime":3290.28,"body":"is if I'm alone in my studio"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3290.28,"endTime":3294.21,"body":"with my thoughts, my allegories"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3290.28,"endTime":3294.21,"body":"start to take away my paintings"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3294.21,"endTime":3298.2,"body":"and so and that's part of why I"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3294.21,"endTime":3298.2,"body":"started my series there. It's a"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3298.2,"endTime":3300.66,"body":"category collection on my"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3298.2,"endTime":3300.66,"body":"website. It's called the little"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3300.66,"endTime":3304.95,"body":"bit quirky paintings. And so I"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3300.66,"endTime":3304.95,"body":"was finding that I was, and I"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3304.98,"endTime":3307.44,"body":"have a few of those still, just"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3304.98,"endTime":3307.44,"body":"because I need to do them, I"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3307.44,"endTime":3310.2,"body":"love to do them, where I've got"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3307.44,"endTime":3310.2,"body":"things like, you know, an ice"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3310.2,"endTime":3315.33,"body":"cream bar melting inside of a"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3310.2,"endTime":3315.33,"body":"champagne glass inside of a fish"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3315.33,"endTime":3321.51,"body":"aquarium, you know, what? And"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3315.33,"endTime":3321.51,"body":"it's because there's a allegory"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3321.51,"endTime":3324.57,"body":"in my head that I feel like, I"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3321.51,"endTime":3324.57,"body":"need to get out that I need to"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3324.57,"endTime":3327.39,"body":"paint and something, sometimes"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3324.57,"endTime":3327.39,"body":"it's working through grief or,"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3327.39,"endTime":3331.08,"body":"you know, painful things like,"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3327.39,"endTime":3331.08,"body":"you know, a lot of us lost a lot"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3331.08,"endTime":3333.75,"body":"of loved ones, you know, in the"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3331.08,"endTime":3333.75,"body":"last several years and all and"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3334.5,"endTime":3337.86,"body":"so some of it's that and never"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3334.5,"endTime":3337.86,"body":"tell those stories, because"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3337.86,"endTime":3340.26,"body":"nobody's gonna buy a painting"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3337.86,"endTime":3340.26,"body":"that's, you know, talking about"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3340.29,"endTime":3342.93,"body":"things that are really"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3340.29,"endTime":3342.93,"body":"depressing, but we need to paint"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3342.93,"endTime":3346.92,"body":"them and there's always a happy"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3342.93,"endTime":3346.92,"body":"side to them. Because, you know,"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3346.92,"endTime":3352.65,"body":"there's always also, I think,"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3346.92,"endTime":3352.65,"body":"anytime there's severe sadness,"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3352.65,"endTime":3355.65,"body":"there's also great happiness on"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3352.65,"endTime":3355.65,"body":"the flip side, right? So I"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3355.65,"endTime":3358.98,"body":"think, painting that those kinds"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3355.65,"endTime":3358.98,"body":"of things are important, but"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3359.01,"endTime":3362.76,"body":"also doing it in a way that it"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3359.01,"endTime":3362.76,"body":"still relates to your audience."},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3362.82,"endTime":3366.84,"body":"And so for me, if I don't get"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3362.82,"endTime":3366.84,"body":"out and interact with people,"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3366.87,"endTime":3369.42,"body":"then I start to go to a place"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3366.87,"endTime":3369.42,"body":"where I'm not interacting with"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3369.42,"endTime":3372.24,"body":"anybody, like are not my"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3369.42,"endTime":3372.24,"body":"allegories, and my paintings are"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3372.24,"endTime":3374.94,"body":"taking over the whole"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3372.24,"endTime":3374.94,"body":"composition and everything. And"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3374.94,"endTime":3378.27,"body":"nobody understands what's"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3374.94,"endTime":3378.27,"body":"happening. And, you know, if I"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3378.27,"endTime":3380.67,"body":"wanted that to be my persona,"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3378.27,"endTime":3380.67,"body":"maybe that wouldn't be a bad"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3380.67,"endTime":3383.61,"body":"thing. There's lots of artists"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3380.67,"endTime":3383.61,"body":"that do surreal stuff that kind"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3383.61,"endTime":3385.32,"body":"of goes in that direction."},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3383.61,"endTime":3385.32,"body":"Nobody knows what they're"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3385.32,"endTime":3388.56,"body":"painting, but it's cool, you"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3385.32,"endTime":3388.56,"body":"can't help it by it, right? But"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3389.25,"endTime":3392.82,"body":"I don't want that to be me. So"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3389.25,"endTime":3392.82,"body":"I'm trying to stay on the level,"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3392.85,"endTime":3395.01,"body":"you know, I'm trying to stay in"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3392.85,"endTime":3395.01,"body":"the middle of the spectrum as"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3395.01,"endTime":3399.66,"body":"much as I can. But do you find"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3395.01,"endTime":3399.66,"body":"that, you know, sometimes your"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3399.69,"endTime":3403.83,"body":"your stories, your narratives"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3399.69,"endTime":3403.83,"body":"go, you know, kind of take over?"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":3404.55,"endTime":3407.07,"body":"I think,"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":3404.55,"endTime":3407.07,"body":"yeah, there's always that risk."},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":3408.18,"endTime":3410.82,"body":"Again, I think it's also"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":3408.18,"endTime":3410.82,"body":"because, you know, like, as"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":3410.82,"endTime":3413.1,"body":"artists, from what you're also"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":3410.82,"endTime":3413.1,"body":"telling me with your quirky"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":3413.1,"endTime":3419.04,"body":"paintings, we have this rich"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":3413.1,"endTime":3419.04,"body":"inner world. And sometimes, you"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":3419.04,"endTime":3421.44,"body":"know, the only person that"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":3419.04,"endTime":3421.44,"body":"amuses is ourselves. It's like,"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":3421.44,"endTime":3424.62,"body":"you know, when you write poetry,"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":3421.44,"endTime":3424.62,"body":"and it's about a specific moment"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":3424.62,"endTime":3426.96,"body":"in your life, and when you read"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":3424.62,"endTime":3426.96,"body":"it, or reminds you have it, and"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":3426.96,"endTime":3429.96,"body":"no one else will really get it."},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":3426.96,"endTime":3429.96,"body":"Um, but for you, it's something"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":3429.96,"endTime":3433.05,"body":"really cherished. I'm not"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":3429.96,"endTime":3433.05,"body":"against that. But I agree,"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":3433.05,"endTime":3436.71,"body":"there's like, there's a point"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":3433.05,"endTime":3436.71,"body":"where, you know, if you, if"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":3436.71,"endTime":3440.7,"body":"you're too alienated like that,"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":3436.71,"endTime":3440.7,"body":"then you're definitely just"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":3440.7,"endTime":3443.85,"body":"doing it for yourself, which is"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":3440.7,"endTime":3443.85,"body":"totally again, it's totally"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":3443.85,"endTime":3446.04,"body":"fine. I mean, if someone's just"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":3443.85,"endTime":3446.04,"body":"doing this for fun, they're not"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":3446.04,"endTime":3447.39,"body":"doing it as a job that's"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":3446.04,"endTime":3447.39,"body":"different."},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3447.66,"endTime":3449.94,"body":"I think there is"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3447.66,"endTime":3449.94,"body":"something different about us,"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3449.97,"endTime":3453.12,"body":"you know, that people notice and"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3449.97,"endTime":3453.12,"body":"comment on or whatever. But"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3453.12,"endTime":3456.18,"body":"that's how we know we're"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3453.12,"endTime":3456.18,"body":"artists, right? That's why we're"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3456.18,"endTime":3456.42,"body":"part"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":3456.42,"endTime":3459.66,"body":"of this"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":3456.42,"endTime":3459.66,"body":"group. Exactly. It's, you know,"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":3459.78,"endTime":3463.14,"body":"and I've actually asked this, I"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":3459.78,"endTime":3463.14,"body":"asked this to another guest,"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":3463.17,"endTime":3467.1,"body":"Catherine Buck kowski. I asked"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":3463.17,"endTime":3467.1,"body":"this about teaching, no, but I"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":3467.1,"endTime":3470.82,"body":"think I could ask you, do you"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":3467.1,"endTime":3470.82,"body":"think you chose to be an artist?"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":3470.97,"endTime":3472.68,"body":"Or did being an artist choose"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":3470.97,"endTime":3472.68,"body":"you?"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3473.31,"endTime":3476.19,"body":"I think the"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3473.31,"endTime":3476.19,"body":"artists chose me. And I'll tell"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3476.19,"endTime":3480.33,"body":"you why is because I remember"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3476.19,"endTime":3480.33,"body":"actually, the moment when I"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3480.33,"endTime":3483.72,"body":"discovered my mom's charcoal"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3480.33,"endTime":3483.72,"body":"set, which she probably would"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3483.72,"endTime":3486.57,"body":"have let me bring it upstairs"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3483.72,"endTime":3486.57,"body":"and you know, use it at the"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3486.57,"endTime":3489.63,"body":"table. But I discovered it"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3486.57,"endTime":3489.63,"body":"underneath the stairs in our"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3489.63,"endTime":3491.88,"body":"house that was probably like"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3489.63,"endTime":3491.88,"body":"seven or eight years old. And I"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3491.88,"endTime":3495.75,"body":"remember pulling up this book"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3491.88,"endTime":3495.75,"body":"was just when the perspective"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3495.87,"endTime":3499.08,"body":"books that they have, you know,"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3495.87,"endTime":3499.08,"body":"with the train tracks, and so I"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3499.08,"endTime":3502.26,"body":"remember at seven or eight years"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3499.08,"endTime":3502.26,"body":"old, you know, doing an I mean,"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3502.26,"endTime":3504.66,"body":"I could barely read or anything,"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3502.26,"endTime":3504.66,"body":"but I can see the pictures, and"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3504.66,"endTime":3508.35,"body":"I could see how they were doing"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3504.66,"endTime":3508.35,"body":"the drawing, you know, from one"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3508.38,"endTime":3511.56,"body":"step to the next. And so I"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3508.38,"endTime":3511.56,"body":"remember tracing that and"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3511.56,"endTime":3514.29,"body":"wanting it to be a private"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3511.56,"endTime":3514.29,"body":"moment. So hiding underneath the"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3514.29,"endTime":3520.11,"body":"steps, you know, and next to the"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3514.29,"endTime":3520.11,"body":"dog. And I mean, there was no"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3520.11,"endTime":3522.87,"body":"reason for me to be introverted"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3520.11,"endTime":3522.87,"body":"about it or shy about it, but"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3522.87,"endTime":3525.69,"body":"just testing it out to see like,"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3522.87,"endTime":3525.69,"body":"Is this is this, you know, my"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3525.69,"endTime":3528.33,"body":"colleague, of course, you don't"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3525.69,"endTime":3528.33,"body":"have that vocabulary when you're"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3528.33,"endTime":3531.72,"body":"that young. But I remember that"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3528.33,"endTime":3531.72,"body":"being a moment when I'm like,"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3531.75,"endTime":3535.29,"body":"Oh, this is what you're going to"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3531.75,"endTime":3535.29,"body":"do some and it always was with"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3535.29,"endTime":3539.16,"body":"me all throughout, you know, and"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3535.29,"endTime":3539.16,"body":"I grew up in the 70s. And so"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3539.16,"endTime":3542.07,"body":"like, we had to take cooking and"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3539.16,"endTime":3542.07,"body":"sewing I begged them in high"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3542.07,"endTime":3544.65,"body":"school to let me take, I'm like,"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3542.07,"endTime":3544.65,"body":"I'll go into engineering, I'll"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3544.65,"endTime":3547.77,"body":"do whatever I need to do just"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3544.65,"endTime":3547.77,"body":"know, I want to take shop, you"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3547.77,"endTime":3550.92,"body":"know, I want to I want to do you"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3547.77,"endTime":3550.92,"body":"know these other things, right?"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3551.01,"endTime":3554.76,"body":"And woodworking and all that and"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3551.01,"endTime":3554.76,"body":"No, no, you cooking and sewing,"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3554.79,"endTime":3558.66,"body":"you know. And so this is this is"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3554.79,"endTime":3558.66,"body":"the era that I grew up in. And"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3558.66,"endTime":3563.34,"body":"so I always felt like I was sort"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3558.66,"endTime":3563.34,"body":"of, like not growing. I I"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3563.34,"endTime":3566.19,"body":"remember my parents being"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3563.34,"endTime":3566.19,"body":"concerned at the time that I was"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3566.19,"endTime":3569.64,"body":"so messy, and you know, didn't"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3566.19,"endTime":3569.64,"body":"care about it, because how are"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3569.64,"endTime":3571.86,"body":"you going to find a husband if"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3569.64,"endTime":3571.86,"body":"you can't clean house? You know,"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3571.86,"endTime":3574.95,"body":"this was good housekeeping."},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3571.86,"endTime":3574.95,"body":"Right? It was able to sit"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3574.95,"endTime":3578.4,"body":"growing up in the 60s. It was"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3574.95,"endTime":3578.4,"body":"literally, you know, maybe RFT"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3578.4,"endTime":3581.94,"body":"beaver cleaver kind of"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3578.4,"endTime":3581.94,"body":"upbringing, and that was just"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3581.94,"endTime":3585.57,"body":"how things were. And so right"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3581.94,"endTime":3585.57,"body":"from the start, I'm like, No,"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3585.6,"endTime":3587.94,"body":"you're different than that."},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3585.6,"endTime":3587.94,"body":"You're going to be doing this,"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3587.94,"endTime":3592.5,"body":"whatever it takes, right. And so"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3587.94,"endTime":3592.5,"body":"I knew at some point in my life"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3592.5,"endTime":3595.05,"body":"if I was blessed enough to live"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3592.5,"endTime":3595.05,"body":"long enough that this was going"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3595.05,"endTime":3597.69,"body":"to be what I was aiming to the"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3595.05,"endTime":3597.69,"body":"point where when my husband and"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3597.69,"endTime":3600.42,"body":"I were dating and talking about"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3597.69,"endTime":3600.42,"body":"marriage, I'm like If you"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3600.42,"endTime":3602.91,"body":"realize I don't really care"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3600.42,"endTime":3602.91,"body":"about anything else, I mean,"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3602.91,"endTime":3606.81,"body":"I'll live in a tent, but I'm"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3602.91,"endTime":3606.81,"body":"going to be an artist full time"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3606.81,"endTime":3609.72,"body":"at some point. So if you're"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3606.81,"endTime":3609.72,"body":"marrying me, then you need to"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3609.72,"endTime":3613.56,"body":"just fit factor that into your"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3609.72,"endTime":3613.56,"body":"lifestyle expectations, right?"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3613.56,"endTime":3615.81,"body":"And I'm gonna, same thing, I'm"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3613.56,"endTime":3615.81,"body":"like, I'm going to have three"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3615.81,"endTime":3618.48,"body":"children, whether it happens"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3615.81,"endTime":3618.48,"body":"biologically, or I adapt them,"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3618.48,"endTime":3621.0,"body":"I'm having three children. So if"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3618.48,"endTime":3621.0,"body":"you're not in on that, you know,"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3621.03,"endTime":3625.98,"body":"goodbye, kind of thing. And so I"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3621.03,"endTime":3625.98,"body":"had all these, like, somehow you"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3625.98,"endTime":3628.71,"body":"still married me? And will"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3625.98,"endTime":3628.71,"body":"there'll be 39 years going on?"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3628.71,"endTime":3634.74,"body":"So it worked out? Yeah. But I"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3628.71,"endTime":3634.74,"body":"look back, I'm like, I wouldn't"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3634.74,"endTime":3638.91,"body":"have married me like, saying,"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3634.74,"endTime":3638.91,"body":"Hey, we could be starving. And"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3638.91,"endTime":3642.27,"body":"I'm going to spend our last"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3638.91,"endTime":3642.27,"body":"dollar on paint, you know, but,"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3642.57,"endTime":3645.9,"body":"I mean, I was that mitad to it"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3642.57,"endTime":3645.9,"body":"right from the start, just like"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3645.9,"endTime":3649.23,"body":"I've decided to pick my death"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3645.9,"endTime":3649.23,"body":"date. I've decided I'm gonna die"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3649.23,"endTime":3654.24,"body":"on August 31 2066, when 104 And"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3649.23,"endTime":3654.24,"body":"it's like, you set these"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3654.24,"endTime":3657.96,"body":"intentions? I mean,"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3654.24,"endTime":3657.96,"body":"realistically, I'm not insane."},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3657.96,"endTime":3660.09,"body":"yet. I know that that may not"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3657.96,"endTime":3660.09,"body":"happen"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":3660.21,"endTime":3662.07,"body":"things."},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":3660.21,"endTime":3662.07,"body":"Well, you never know. Honestly,"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":3662.07,"endTime":3662.16,"body":"you"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3662.16,"endTime":3665.1,"body":"never you live for"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3662.16,"endTime":3665.1,"body":"that. It makes you eat right?"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3665.1,"endTime":3668.55,"body":"And exercise, it makes you you"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3665.1,"endTime":3668.55,"body":"know, do not smoke, not"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3668.58,"endTime":3671.88,"body":"whatever, so that you can Could"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3668.58,"endTime":3671.88,"body":"you look around, you're like,"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3671.94,"endTime":3675.03,"body":"Who else do I see here it was"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3671.94,"endTime":3675.03,"body":"104 Ooh, that person's not gonna"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3675.03,"endTime":3680.61,"body":"make it right. And so gonna kind"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3675.03,"endTime":3680.61,"body":"of make those judgments as you"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3680.61,"endTime":3684.84,"body":"go subconsciously, or"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3680.61,"endTime":3684.84,"body":"consciously. And so I think it's"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3684.84,"endTime":3687.48,"body":"important to set your"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3684.84,"endTime":3687.48,"body":"intentions. And so when I was"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3687.48,"endTime":3690.66,"body":"seven or eight years old,"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3687.48,"endTime":3690.66,"body":"whatever it was, I literally set"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3690.66,"endTime":3694.29,"body":"an intention in that moment. And"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3690.66,"endTime":3694.29,"body":"I remember it that I was going"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3694.29,"endTime":3697.53,"body":"to do art. So did that come I"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3694.29,"endTime":3697.53,"body":"mean, I don't think I even had"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3697.53,"endTime":3701.28,"body":"the awareness or anything at"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3697.53,"endTime":3701.28,"body":"that age to create that, this"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3701.31,"endTime":3704.37,"body":"that what I'm expressing now"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3701.31,"endTime":3704.37,"body":"this level of, you know, levels"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3704.37,"endTime":3707.61,"body":"of thought I wasn't some prodigy"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3704.37,"endTime":3707.61,"body":"seven year old, you know, I"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3707.61,"endTime":3711.09,"body":"mean, so I think it is innate, I"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3707.61,"endTime":3711.09,"body":"think it is part of your your"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3711.09,"endTime":3715.11,"body":"DNA. But I think you have to"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3711.09,"endTime":3715.11,"body":"have the passion. And then I"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3715.11,"endTime":3718.29,"body":"think it's taught like, you have"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3715.11,"endTime":3718.29,"body":"to want to learn it. And you"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3718.29,"endTime":3721.65,"body":"have to be a sponge and picking"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3718.29,"endTime":3721.65,"body":"it up. And I think that anybody"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3721.65,"endTime":3724.74,"body":"could be an artist if they have"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3721.65,"endTime":3724.74,"body":"the passion to do so. I don't"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3724.74,"endTime":3728.01,"body":"think that, like I was what any"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3724.74,"endTime":3728.01,"body":"of us were born with. Some were"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3728.01,"endTime":3730.5,"body":"the only ones who can learn to"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3728.01,"endTime":3730.5,"body":"turn form it realistically, you"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3730.5,"endTime":3731.04,"body":"know? Yeah."},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":3731.94,"endTime":3734.34,"body":"That's a"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":3731.94,"endTime":3734.34,"body":"skill. Um, I had a friend who"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":3734.34,"endTime":3737.16,"body":"used to call it it's, it's like"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":3734.34,"endTime":3737.16,"body":"learning to lay bricks. It's not"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":3737.16,"endTime":3739.5,"body":"that hard. Anyone can do, right?"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":3737.16,"endTime":3739.5,"body":"Yeah. And,"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3739.68,"endTime":3741.84,"body":"and when you go to"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3739.68,"endTime":3741.84,"body":"these conferences, and societies"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3741.84,"endTime":3745.35,"body":"and things, you see, we're all"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3741.84,"endTime":3745.35,"body":"doing the same steps. It's just"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3745.35,"endTime":3747.63,"body":"what order you do them in, and"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3745.35,"endTime":3747.63,"body":"there's little nuances or"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3747.63,"endTime":3750.96,"body":"whatever. But I mean, how many"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3747.63,"endTime":3750.96,"body":"times am I gonna watch the same"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3750.96,"endTime":3753.87,"body":"person demo, because I've seen"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3750.96,"endTime":3753.87,"body":"them paint so many times that"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3753.96,"endTime":3756.18,"body":"I'm not getting any new"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3753.96,"endTime":3756.18,"body":"information out of this, you"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3756.18,"endTime":3758.94,"body":"know, you kind of get to that"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3756.18,"endTime":3758.94,"body":"place where you're like, at one"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3758.94,"endTime":3761.79,"body":"point, this was all new and"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3758.94,"endTime":3761.79,"body":"wonderful and great information"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3761.79,"endTime":3764.97,"body":"that I had to have. But then you"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3761.79,"endTime":3764.97,"body":"reach a place and obviously"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3764.97,"endTime":3769.59,"body":"you're at it, where you're like,"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3764.97,"endTime":3769.59,"body":"What do I do with this now? Now?"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3769.71,"endTime":3773.64,"body":"Now, you know, with this comes"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3769.71,"endTime":3773.64,"body":"much responsibility? How am I"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3773.64,"endTime":3776.97,"body":"going to play this out in the"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3773.64,"endTime":3776.97,"body":"world? Right? Yeah. So I think"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3776.97,"endTime":3780.33,"body":"that's all of us. Our challenge"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3776.97,"endTime":3780.33,"body":"is to ride that wave and figure"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3780.36,"endTime":3783.45,"body":"out, you know, okay, now we've"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3780.36,"endTime":3783.45,"body":"got the passion, we've got the"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3783.45,"endTime":3786.18,"body":"skills, we've got the whatever,"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3783.45,"endTime":3786.18,"body":"where are we going from here,"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3786.18,"endTime":3788.73,"body":"and that's going to change"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3786.18,"endTime":3788.73,"body":"history, it's going to change"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3788.73,"endTime":3792.69,"body":"the way that this art, you know,"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3788.73,"endTime":3792.69,"body":"movement plays out. So I don't"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3792.69,"endTime":3794.91,"body":"know, I find a great deal of"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3792.69,"endTime":3794.91,"body":"responsibility, like with the"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3794.91,"endTime":3798.66,"body":"Coast Guard, ones, or with the"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3794.91,"endTime":3798.66,"body":"ones at the Langham Hotel"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3798.69,"endTime":3801.84,"body":"commission, I feel great"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3798.69,"endTime":3801.84,"body":"responsibility that what I put"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3801.84,"endTime":3804.78,"body":"out there be archival that what"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3801.84,"endTime":3804.78,"body":"I put out there have a happy"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3804.78,"endTime":3809.31,"body":"message or one that I want to"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3804.78,"endTime":3809.31,"body":"portray, you know, and not, I"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3809.31,"endTime":3812.04,"body":"mean, nothing against people"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3809.31,"endTime":3812.04,"body":"that go for shock value or go"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3812.04,"endTime":3816.6,"body":"for, I don't know, whatever, but"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3812.04,"endTime":3816.6,"body":"I've never been good at creating"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3816.6,"endTime":3820.26,"body":"whatever, you know, I'm not I'm"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3816.6,"endTime":3820.26,"body":"not good at being anything other"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3820.26,"endTime":3824.94,"body":"than unfiltered. Genuine and"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3820.26,"endTime":3824.94,"body":"Frank. And so for me, you know,"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3825.06,"endTime":3829.11,"body":"what you see is what you get,"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3825.06,"endTime":3829.11,"body":"Oh, I love it. I'm all for"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3829.11,"endTime":3831.99,"body":"marketing and sales. That's"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3829.11,"endTime":3831.99,"body":"never been my focus."},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":3832.02,"endTime":3834.21,"body":"So Right."},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":3832.02,"endTime":3834.21,"body":"Yeah. And I think that's, you"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":3834.21,"endTime":3836.82,"body":"know, it's starting to seem like"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":3834.21,"endTime":3836.82,"body":"that's, that's why you're so"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":3836.82,"endTime":3840.45,"body":"successful, precisely because,"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":3836.82,"endTime":3840.45,"body":"you know, even in normal"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":3840.45,"endTime":3843.51,"body":"marketing, and I don't know why"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":3840.45,"endTime":3843.51,"body":"suddenly, the paper lead, the"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":3843.51,"endTime":3846.42,"body":"whole role of marketing is like"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":3843.51,"endTime":3846.42,"body":"flipped into the wrong"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":3846.42,"endTime":3850.2,"body":"direction, where like, real"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":3846.42,"endTime":3850.2,"body":"marketing, real good business"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":3850.2,"endTime":3852.87,"body":"practice starts with the"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":3850.2,"endTime":3852.87,"body":"product. It starts with the"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":3852.87,"endTime":3856.05,"body":"product, the product sells"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":3852.87,"endTime":3856.05,"body":"itself. And that's it. Like, if"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":3856.05,"endTime":3859.53,"body":"you're trying too hard to sell"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":3856.05,"endTime":3859.53,"body":"something, maybe it's time to"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":3859.53,"endTime":3862.56,"body":"work on the product more and"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":3859.53,"endTime":3862.56,"body":"stop focusing on the selling"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":3862.56,"endTime":3865.83,"body":"because, like, for example,"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":3862.56,"endTime":3865.83,"body":"there was a painting that I did"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":3866.13,"endTime":3868.95,"body":"a couple years ago. And I just"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":3866.13,"endTime":3868.95,"body":"did it because it was an image"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":3868.95,"endTime":3871.53,"body":"that popped in my head and I"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":3868.95,"endTime":3871.53,"body":"loved it. And I love the idea."},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":3872.28,"endTime":3875.16,"body":"And I worked on it and it was"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":3872.28,"endTime":3875.16,"body":"like, really fun. And then I"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":3875.19,"endTime":3878.49,"body":"posted it on Instagram and like"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":3875.19,"endTime":3878.49,"body":"10 minutes later, I had three"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":3878.49,"endTime":3880.86,"body":"messages from three people"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":3878.49,"endTime":3880.86,"body":"saying I want to buy it. I mean,"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":3880.86,"endTime":3883.17,"body":"I sold it to the first person"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":3880.86,"endTime":3883.17,"body":"who messaged me because he"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":3883.17,"endTime":3885.42,"body":"messaged me first but I could"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":3883.17,"endTime":3885.42,"body":"have sold that painting three"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":3885.42,"endTime":3889.74,"body":"times was I thinking of selling"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":3885.42,"endTime":3889.74,"body":"it. Absolutely not. That I sound"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3890.94,"endTime":3893.31,"body":"and that's the"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3890.94,"endTime":3893.31,"body":"unscripted part the"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3893.31,"endTime":3896.01,"body":"unpredictable part, right like"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3893.31,"endTime":3896.01,"body":"you don't know what will go"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3896.01,"endTime":3899.22,"body":"viral. The person who did not"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3896.01,"endTime":3899.22,"body":"remember the artists name we did"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3899.22,"endTime":3902.91,"body":"the banana with The duct tape,"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3899.22,"endTime":3902.91,"body":"but they didn't know it was"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3902.91,"endTime":3906.63,"body":"gonna go viral and create an"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3902.91,"endTime":3906.63,"body":"entire the blue dress thing blue"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3906.63,"endTime":3910.38,"body":"blue? Yes, yeah, nobody knew"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3906.63,"endTime":3910.38,"body":"when they were posting that,"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3910.38,"endTime":3913.62,"body":"that it was gonna go viral like"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3910.38,"endTime":3913.62,"body":"these things that go viral, you"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3913.62,"endTime":3918.54,"body":"have no control. And so if"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3913.62,"endTime":3918.54,"body":"you're just out there, then you"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3918.54,"endTime":3921.72,"body":"might get lucky and be in that"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3918.54,"endTime":3921.72,"body":"viral category. But there's no"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3921.72,"endTime":3924.9,"body":"formula. There's no marketing,"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3921.72,"endTime":3924.9,"body":"all these people that pay and I"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3924.9,"endTime":3928.38,"body":"know I have friends who've paid"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3924.9,"endTime":3928.38,"body":"lots of money to learn how to do"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3928.38,"endTime":3931.65,"body":"this, and that on Instagram, or"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3928.38,"endTime":3931.65,"body":"on social or whatever. And it's"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3931.65,"endTime":3934.14,"body":"like, you turn around and six"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3931.65,"endTime":3934.14,"body":"months later, they've changed"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3934.14,"endTime":3938.01,"body":"your algorithms. And it's all"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3934.14,"endTime":3938.01,"body":"for naught, right? Or the you"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3938.01,"endTime":3940.71,"body":"can't I mean, some things are,"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3938.01,"endTime":3940.71,"body":"if you're a beginner, then there"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3940.71,"endTime":3943.38,"body":"are certainly some things that"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3940.71,"endTime":3943.38,"body":"you can do. But for the most"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3943.38,"endTime":3945.45,"body":"part, there's nothing that's"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3943.38,"endTime":3945.45,"body":"going to tell you how to make a"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3945.45,"endTime":3949.77,"body":"banana and duct tape go viral"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3945.45,"endTime":3949.77,"body":"ever, you know? Yeah. And I"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3949.77,"endTime":3952.05,"body":"think I mean, I think it can,"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":3952.14,"endTime":3954.18,"body":"yeah, I"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":3952.14,"endTime":3954.18,"body":"mean, the, the possibility is"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":3954.18,"endTime":3957.9,"body":"always there. But you know, it's"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":3954.18,"endTime":3957.9,"body":"the craft first. And,"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":3958.26,"endTime":3961.17,"body":"interestingly enough, when I saw"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":3958.26,"endTime":3961.17,"body":"that painting, I didn't have"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":3961.29,"endTime":3966.09,"body":"10,000 followers, I had maybe"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":3961.29,"endTime":3966.09,"body":"five or six, like, I wasn't even"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":3966.09,"endTime":3968.94,"body":"I like, you know, I have more"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":3966.09,"endTime":3968.94,"body":"followers now than that. But"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":3969.06,"endTime":3972.45,"body":"even then, like, it was like"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":3969.06,"endTime":3972.45,"body":"spontaneous, like, I just want"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":3972.45,"endTime":3975.36,"body":"to do this, this feels right for"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":3972.45,"endTime":3975.36,"body":"me. And then you know, posted"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":3975.36,"endTime":3978.6,"body":"because yes, and it's gone. You"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":3975.36,"endTime":3978.6,"body":"know, it's like that."},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3979.05,"endTime":3982.02,"body":"And you also you"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3979.05,"endTime":3982.02,"body":"this, I think this business"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3982.02,"endTime":3984.48,"body":"humbles you again and again,"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3982.02,"endTime":3984.48,"body":"like you think you're all that,"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3984.48,"endTime":3987.78,"body":"and then you're not you think"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3984.48,"endTime":3987.78,"body":"you're all that. And it's always"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3987.78,"endTime":3991.65,"body":"like that. And I remember one"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3987.78,"endTime":3991.65,"body":"time on Instagram I had, and I"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3991.65,"endTime":3994.23,"body":"don't remember the numbers. Now,"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3991.65,"endTime":3994.23,"body":"I couldn't even tell you how"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3994.23,"endTime":3997.14,"body":"many followers I have now, but"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3994.23,"endTime":3997.14,"body":"it's not that many. And I don't,"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3997.17,"endTime":3999.54,"body":"because I don't spend enough"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3997.17,"endTime":3999.54,"body":"time on there. I don't, I don't"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3999.54,"endTime":4002.75,"body":"do the things that you need to"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":3999.54,"endTime":4002.75,"body":"do in order to, you know, make"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4002.75,"endTime":4006.38,"body":"relationships on Instagram. So"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4002.75,"endTime":4006.38,"body":"it's on me that I don't, I'm not"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4006.38,"endTime":4010.07,"body":"complaining. But I had something"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4006.38,"endTime":4010.07,"body":"that I think was like I was"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4010.07,"endTime":4014.3,"body":"approaching 6000 or something."},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4010.07,"endTime":4014.3,"body":"And then they did their sweep"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4014.33,"endTime":4016.73,"body":"that they do where they get rid"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4014.33,"endTime":4016.73,"body":"of all the bots or whatever's"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4016.73,"endTime":4020.69,"body":"out there. And I never bought"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4016.73,"endTime":4020.69,"body":"bought any buddy or like I never"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4020.69,"endTime":4025.07,"body":"did anything bad to be deserving"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4020.69,"endTime":4025.07,"body":"of bots. And since then, I've"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4025.07,"endTime":4027.53,"body":"been cloned and stuff. I'm like,"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4025.07,"endTime":4027.53,"body":"Who am I that you want to call"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4027.53,"endTime":4033.62,"body":"it, whatever. But so I've been"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4027.53,"endTime":4033.62,"body":"through that ringer or whatever."},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4033.62,"endTime":4036.77,"body":"But they came through and they"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4033.62,"endTime":4036.77,"body":"took away like half of my"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4036.77,"endTime":4041.66,"body":"followers. And overnight I went"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4036.77,"endTime":4041.66,"body":"from whatever my number was down"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4041.66,"endTime":4045.8,"body":"to, I don't know, 3000 less or"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4041.66,"endTime":4045.8,"body":"whatever. And I'm like, That's"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4045.8,"endTime":4049.16,"body":"interesting. Like, what the"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4045.8,"endTime":4049.16,"body":"internet giveth, the internet"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4049.16,"endTime":4053.66,"body":"can taketh away. You just, you"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4049.16,"endTime":4053.66,"body":"just realize that even when you"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4053.69,"endTime":4057.5,"body":"are successful, and you are all"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4053.69,"endTime":4057.5,"body":"that, like, you're just, you"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4057.5,"endTime":4061.52,"body":"know, standing on a shaky ladder"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4057.5,"endTime":4061.52,"body":"on in the rain, you know, on ice"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4061.52,"endTime":4065.15,"body":"or something like, you're really"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4061.52,"endTime":4065.15,"body":"you're really not you can't ever"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4065.39,"endTime":4069.41,"body":"just like rest and go, you know,"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4065.39,"endTime":4069.41,"body":"now I'm there. Even people like"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4070.46,"endTime":4072.41,"body":"I don't want to say his name"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4070.46,"endTime":4072.41,"body":"because I'll say it wrong. I"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4072.41,"endTime":4075.14,"body":"know. I don't know how to"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4072.41,"endTime":4075.14,"body":"pronounce it. But the man who"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4075.14,"endTime":4079.01,"body":"just won the great accolade of"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4075.14,"endTime":4079.01,"body":"selling two and a half million"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4079.01,"endTime":4081.47,"body":"dollar, whatever it was at the"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4079.01,"endTime":4081.47,"body":"Scottsdale artist school Mark"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4081.5,"endTime":4085.61,"body":"maggiore. I think he's a Western"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4081.5,"endTime":4085.61,"body":"artist, but amazing art"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4085.61,"endTime":4088.46,"body":"beautiful art. I love it. I love"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4085.61,"endTime":4088.46,"body":"what he does and everything. But"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4088.46,"endTime":4091.1,"body":"I was thinking about it. And I"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4088.46,"endTime":4091.1,"body":"mean, who doesn't want to, you"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4091.1,"endTime":4093.74,"body":"know, put themselves in his"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4091.1,"endTime":4093.74,"body":"shoes or whatever. But I'm like,"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4093.89,"endTime":4097.4,"body":"his life has definitely changed."},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4093.89,"endTime":4097.4,"body":"But he's still only as good as"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4097.43,"endTime":4101.69,"body":"the next thing on his easel. You"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4097.43,"endTime":4101.69,"body":"know, like, he's got that in his"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4101.69,"endTime":4104.51,"body":"rearview mirror. And we all want"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4101.69,"endTime":4104.51,"body":"that in our rearview mirror. But"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4104.51,"endTime":4106.67,"body":"now like everybody's looking"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4104.51,"endTime":4106.67,"body":"going, what are you going to do"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4106.67,"endTime":4111.41,"body":"next? What's your next story?"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4106.67,"endTime":4111.41,"body":"You know, it's intimidating."},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4111.56,"endTime":4114.62,"body":"Like it's almost it's almost"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4111.56,"endTime":4114.62,"body":"like, I don't know, it's almost"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4114.65,"endTime":4117.8,"body":"scary for the really big wins to"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4114.65,"endTime":4117.8,"body":"me are almost frightening"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4117.8,"endTime":4118.52,"body":"because then you're like,"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":4118.55,"endTime":4121.82,"body":"Oh, now the"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":4118.55,"endTime":4121.82,"body":"pressures on Yeah, I mean, to"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":4121.82,"endTime":4125.21,"body":"quote Star Wars, twice the price"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":4121.82,"endTime":4125.21,"body":"double the fall, you know?"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4125.84,"endTime":4129.59,"body":"Yeah. Yeah, it's"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4125.84,"endTime":4129.59,"body":"true. It is. There's you know,"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4129.62,"endTime":4131.96,"body":"there is no try do or do not"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4129.62,"endTime":4131.96,"body":"right."},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":4132.47,"endTime":4137.21,"body":"Exactly."},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":4132.47,"endTime":4137.21,"body":"Yes. Yeah. It's a complicated"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":4137.33,"endTime":4140.81,"body":"thing. I think I do. Yeah, it's"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":4137.33,"endTime":4140.81,"body":"true. It's like you know, you're"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":4140.81,"endTime":4142.88,"body":"humbled one moment and then the"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":4140.81,"endTime":4142.88,"body":"next moment you're on top of the"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":4142.88,"endTime":4144.83,"body":"world and then you're humbled"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":4142.88,"endTime":4144.83,"body":"and I think that's also you"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":4144.83,"endTime":4147.56,"body":"know, that goes to show too that"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":4144.83,"endTime":4147.56,"body":"it's it's even in the art world"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":4147.56,"endTime":4150.29,"body":"it is like it gives us Senate"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":4147.56,"endTime":4150.29,"body":"tickets away you know, it's like"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":4150.74,"endTime":4155.54,"body":"you just got to keep chugging on"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":4150.74,"endTime":4155.54,"body":"and again for the craft as for"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":4155.54,"endTime":4156.23,"body":"the love of it"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4156.35,"endTime":4159.47,"body":"is I think you get"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4156.35,"endTime":4159.47,"body":"weeded out if that's not your if"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4159.47,"endTime":4162.68,"body":"you're not passionate about it"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4159.47,"endTime":4162.68,"body":"or you don't want to if the cons"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4162.68,"endTime":4166.1,"body":"outweigh the pros you know, if"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4162.68,"endTime":4166.1,"body":"you don't feel like Man, this is"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4166.1,"endTime":4169.16,"body":"just so amazing. You know, even"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4166.1,"endTime":4169.16,"body":"though it's painful, I'd love in"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4169.16,"endTime":4169.94,"body":"this then"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":4169.97,"endTime":4174.26,"body":"yes, I just"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":4169.97,"endTime":4174.26,"body":"had a guest who called it out"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":4174.26,"endTime":4177.98,"body":"what was it like happy like"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":4174.26,"endTime":4177.98,"body":"sadly content or something like"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":4177.98,"endTime":4182.03,"body":"that? It was like it was so"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":4177.98,"endTime":4182.03,"body":"funny, or depressingly content"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":4182.27,"endTime":4185.96,"body":"while working because it's um,"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":4182.27,"endTime":4185.96,"body":"again, you know, you're facing"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":4185.96,"endTime":4189.53,"body":"your demons. You're trudging"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":4185.96,"endTime":4189.53,"body":"through, you're doing your best"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":4189.62,"endTime":4190.7,"body":"and you keep learning."},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4191.569,"endTime":4193.489,"body":"But don't you find"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4191.569,"endTime":4193.489,"body":"when you're in groups of"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4193.519,"endTime":4196.279,"body":"artists, I was just talking to"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4193.519,"endTime":4196.279,"body":"some people they run studio"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4196.279,"endTime":4201.349,"body":"Contura out in in Minneapolis"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4196.279,"endTime":4201.349,"body":"and There are amazing people"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4201.349,"endTime":4203.899,"body":"Lois and Armando, if you ever"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4201.349,"endTime":4203.899,"body":"get to meet these two, they're"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4203.899,"endTime":4207.799,"body":"two my favorite people in the"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4203.899,"endTime":4207.799,"body":"world. And they are some of the"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4207.829,"endTime":4211.429,"body":"most interesting people. And I"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4207.829,"endTime":4211.429,"body":"was talking with them. And we"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4211.429,"endTime":4214.339,"body":"were chatting about how the art"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4211.429,"endTime":4214.339,"body":"world in general is like this"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4214.339,"endTime":4218.089,"body":"where you meet people. And first"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4214.339,"endTime":4218.089,"body":"of all, I think artists were a"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4218.089,"endTime":4220.219,"body":"lot more on their sleeves, like"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4218.089,"endTime":4220.219,"body":"you go into the corporate world,"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4220.219,"endTime":4222.349,"body":"and everyone's masked, and"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4220.219,"endTime":4222.349,"body":"they're behaving in a certain"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4222.379,"endTime":4225.739,"body":"way. And you're, you know,"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4222.379,"endTime":4225.739,"body":"following certain protocols and"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4225.739,"endTime":4227.989,"body":"meetings and all that stuff."},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4225.739,"endTime":4227.989,"body":"There's none of that in the art"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4227.989,"endTime":4230.569,"body":"world, you just like, you know,"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4227.989,"endTime":4230.569,"body":"everybody's like you, you get"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4230.569,"endTime":4233.419,"body":"TMI real quick sometimes,"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4230.569,"endTime":4233.419,"body":"especially in workshops and"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4233.419,"endTime":4236.839,"body":"things where it's like, okay, I"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4233.419,"endTime":4236.839,"body":"didn't want to know that level"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4236.839,"endTime":4240.829,"body":"of detail about you. But having"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4236.839,"endTime":4240.829,"body":"said that, there's some of the"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4240.829,"endTime":4246.709,"body":"most creative, intelligent,"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4240.829,"endTime":4246.709,"body":"generous, just like artists to"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4246.709,"endTime":4249.019,"body":"me, you know, because you put"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4246.709,"endTime":4249.019,"body":"all those emotions out on the"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4249.019,"endTime":4252.619,"body":"plate. And then on top of that,"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4249.019,"endTime":4252.619,"body":"you have to be pretty smart to"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4252.619,"endTime":4256.939,"body":"get to a place where you can"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4252.619,"endTime":4256.939,"body":"feel confident creating, and so"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4256.939,"endTime":4259.549,"body":"you've got all that intellect as"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4256.939,"endTime":4259.549,"body":"well. I mean, I've gone into"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4259.549,"endTime":4262.699,"body":"some very nerdy rabbit holes"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4259.549,"endTime":4262.699,"body":"with people that I just have the"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4262.699,"endTime":4270.349,"body":"best time and, you know, I'm"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4262.699,"endTime":4270.349,"body":"like, Yes. And I mean that. So"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4270.349,"endTime":4273.679,"body":"it's as much for me, it's as"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4270.349,"endTime":4273.679,"body":"much about the community as it"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4273.679,"endTime":4276.739,"body":"is the craft, you know, it's"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4273.679,"endTime":4276.739,"body":"like, those people are doing"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4276.739,"endTime":4279.439,"body":"such amazing, inspiring"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4276.739,"endTime":4279.439,"body":"wonderful things. And I want to"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4279.439,"endTime":4282.709,"body":"be with them, you know, as"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4279.439,"endTime":4282.709,"body":"opposed to back in corporate"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4282.709,"endTime":4285.949,"body":"America setting up project teams"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4282.709,"endTime":4285.949,"body":"like I used to do. So. I don't"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4285.949,"endTime":4290.059,"body":"regret having moved from one"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4285.949,"endTime":4290.059,"body":"step from my left brain into my"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4290.059,"endTime":4292.699,"body":"right brain at all, you know,"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4290.059,"endTime":4292.699,"body":"and that's a misnomer. By the"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4292.699,"endTime":4295.129,"body":"way, I think he's, I use more of"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4292.699,"endTime":4295.129,"body":"my left right now than I ever"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4295.129,"endTime":4296.089,"body":"did when I was engineering."},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":4296.09,"endTime":4297.89,"body":"But I hear"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":4296.09,"endTime":4297.89,"body":"that."},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4299.239,"endTime":4301.789,"body":"But But I think"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4299.239,"endTime":4301.789,"body":"that, you know, it has to go you"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4301.789,"endTime":4305.209,"body":"have to go back to like, you"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4301.789,"endTime":4305.209,"body":"have to feel like you're one of"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4305.209,"endTime":4308.479,"body":"them. I was gonna say try, but"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4305.209,"endTime":4308.479,"body":"that's probably not politically"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4308.479,"endTime":4310.519,"body":"correct. But that that, you"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4308.479,"endTime":4310.519,"body":"know,"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":4310.88,"endTime":4313.55,"body":"you're part"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":4310.88,"endTime":4313.55,"body":"of something. Yeah, yeah. Yeah."},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":4313.61,"endTime":4319.4,"body":"I agree with you. Yes, exactly."},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":4313.61,"endTime":4319.4,"body":"And you're, you're, you're all I"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":4319.4,"endTime":4323.03,"body":"guess it's like, you know, with"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":4319.4,"endTime":4323.03,"body":"a common goal. And it's, it is"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":4323.06,"endTime":4326.33,"body":"it is very tribal in that sense"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":4323.06,"endTime":4326.33,"body":"of like, and I don't think tribe"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":4326.33,"endTime":4330.08,"body":"is like, in the, you know, I"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":4326.33,"endTime":4330.08,"body":"think of it in like the old,"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":4330.11,"endTime":4334.58,"body":"like, caveman style, like, we're"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":4330.11,"endTime":4334.58,"body":"troupe of people trying to just"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":4334.64,"endTime":4336.02,"body":"exist and survive."},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4337.34,"endTime":4340.25,"body":"It's kind of sexy"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4337.34,"endTime":4340.25,"body":"too, isn't it? It's like, why"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4340.25,"endTime":4343.55,"body":"shouldn't be hanging out with"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4340.25,"endTime":4343.55,"body":"this group, but I just can't"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4343.55,"endTime":4348.77,"body":"help myself. You know, it's sort"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4343.55,"endTime":4348.77,"body":"of hedonistic in a way, because"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4348.77,"endTime":4352.7,"body":"it's like, oh, I enjoy that so"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4348.77,"endTime":4352.7,"body":"much. And I, you know, like"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4352.73,"endTime":4356.36,"body":"normal people shouldn't, or"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4352.73,"endTime":4356.36,"body":"whatever. I mean,"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":4357.08,"endTime":4359.27,"body":"yeah, yeah,"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":4357.08,"endTime":4359.27,"body":"there's something about it."},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":4359.27,"endTime":4363.05,"body":"That's a god. It's like you just"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":4359.27,"endTime":4363.05,"body":"You're, you're doing the thing"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":4363.05,"endTime":4365.27,"body":"you love to do. And you're"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":4363.05,"endTime":4365.27,"body":"surrounded by people who also"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":4365.27,"endTime":4367.28,"body":"love doing the things you'd like"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":4365.27,"endTime":4367.28,"body":"to do. And they're all authentic"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":4367.28,"endTime":4372.53,"body":"and open, hopefully. Most cases,"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":4367.28,"endTime":4372.53,"body":"I think. So. It's fun. It's"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":4372.53,"endTime":4375.17,"body":"like, it feels illegal to have"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":4372.53,"endTime":4375.17,"body":"so much fun."},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4375.89,"endTime":4377.99,"body":"It does. I"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4375.89,"endTime":4377.99,"body":"remember one time I'm"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4377.99,"endTime":4382.43,"body":"remembering. I was in Montreal,"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4377.99,"endTime":4382.43,"body":"and my friends Carrie Waller."},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4382.43,"endTime":4385.55,"body":"She was an amazing watercolor"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4382.43,"endTime":4385.55,"body":"artist, and Kim Minichiello, who"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4385.61,"endTime":4388.43,"body":"was an amazing watercolor"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4385.61,"endTime":4388.43,"body":"artist. Unfortunately, she"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4388.43,"endTime":4393.2,"body":"passed in 2021. But at a very"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4388.43,"endTime":4393.2,"body":"young age, but we were in"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4393.2,"endTime":4397.7,"body":"Montreal, and we went into the"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4393.2,"endTime":4397.7,"body":"Botanical Gardens has an insect"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4398.24,"endTime":4400.76,"body":"insectarium or whatever you call"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4398.24,"endTime":4400.76,"body":"it, like, you know, all"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4400.79,"endTime":4403.55,"body":"beautiful moths, and butterflies"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4400.79,"endTime":4403.55,"body":"and beetles, and things, you"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4403.55,"endTime":4407.3,"body":"know, all mounted. And we went"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4403.55,"endTime":4407.3,"body":"into this great big, I don't"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4407.3,"endTime":4409.73,"body":"know how many square feet"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4407.3,"endTime":4409.73,"body":"probably like 20,000 square"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4409.73,"endTime":4413.0,"body":"foot, you know, facility, and"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4409.73,"endTime":4413.0,"body":"we're there looking and we'd run"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4413.0,"endTime":4414.95,"body":"into each other or whatever. But"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4413.0,"endTime":4414.95,"body":"we're all just, you know,"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4414.98,"endTime":4417.89,"body":"looking at kind of, like we do"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4414.98,"endTime":4417.89,"body":"in museums, looking at"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4417.92,"endTime":4420.14,"body":"everything on our own, and"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4417.92,"endTime":4420.14,"body":"taking pictures and all that."},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4420.32,"endTime":4424.4,"body":"And since then, I could kill"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4420.32,"endTime":4424.4,"body":"myself because I, my, I was only"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4424.4,"endTime":4428.21,"body":"keeping things on, on flash"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4424.4,"endTime":4428.21,"body":"drives at the time from and so I"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4428.21,"endTime":4430.85,"body":"have to go back there because my"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4428.21,"endTime":4430.85,"body":"flash drive corrupted, and I"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4430.85,"endTime":4433.79,"body":"don't have any of the pictures"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4430.85,"endTime":4433.79,"body":"from that. And now Kim has"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4433.79,"endTime":4437.18,"body":"passed and she doesn't have it."},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4433.79,"endTime":4437.18,"body":"So yeah, I'm like, I need to, I"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4437.18,"endTime":4439.55,"body":"want the images back so bad. But"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4437.18,"endTime":4439.55,"body":"I did do one painting from"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4439.55,"endTime":4442.58,"body":"there, and it sold and it was"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4439.55,"endTime":4442.58,"body":"wonderful. But we all came out"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4442.58,"endTime":4445.58,"body":"of there. And we had tears in"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4442.58,"endTime":4445.58,"body":"her eyes. And we were all just"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4445.58,"endTime":4448.61,"body":"like, I need a minute, you know,"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4445.58,"endTime":4448.61,"body":"and we're going in there for"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4448.61,"endTime":4450.44,"body":"like two and a half hours or"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4448.61,"endTime":4450.44,"body":"something. You're looking at"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4450.44,"endTime":4454.31,"body":"these bugs. And I'm like, Who"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4450.44,"endTime":4454.31,"body":"else gets all emotional and"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4454.31,"endTime":4458.33,"body":"teary eyed at the beauty of"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4454.31,"endTime":4458.33,"body":"bugs? Like, there's three of us"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4458.33,"endTime":4462.44,"body":"standing here that all so"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4458.33,"endTime":4462.44,"body":"really, like we're all had the"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4462.44,"endTime":4464.81,"body":"same reaction. And we're looking"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4462.44,"endTime":4464.81,"body":"at each other going, you're"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4464.81,"endTime":4469.1,"body":"weird. No, you're weird. No,"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4464.81,"endTime":4469.1,"body":"you're weird. And it's not like"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4469.1,"endTime":4472.01,"body":"we're entomologist. It's not"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4469.1,"endTime":4472.01,"body":"like we know about the bugs or"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4472.01,"endTime":4474.35,"body":"you know, any of their life"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4472.01,"endTime":4474.35,"body":"cycles. Like we weren't, you"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4474.35,"endTime":4478.25,"body":"know, into that part of it. It"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4474.35,"endTime":4478.25,"body":"was just the physical beauty the"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4478.25,"endTime":4481.88,"body":"way everything was lit up and"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4478.25,"endTime":4481.88,"body":"presented and of God's"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4481.88,"endTime":4485.24,"body":"creatures, you know, on this"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4481.88,"endTime":4485.24,"body":"earth, like the lunar module. I"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4485.24,"endTime":4487.22,"body":"don't know if you've ever seen"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4485.24,"endTime":4487.22,"body":"gotten to see them up close and"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4487.22,"endTime":4490.85,"body":"under magnification, but they're"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4487.22,"endTime":4490.85,"body":"so amazingly beautiful. And we"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4490.85,"endTime":4495.35,"body":"all went away wanting pink bugs."},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4490.85,"endTime":4495.35,"body":"So, I mean, there's not many"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4495.35,"endTime":4498.83,"body":"groups of people on the planet"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4495.35,"endTime":4498.83,"body":"that that would react that way."},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4498.83,"endTime":4499.49,"body":"I don't think"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":4499.55,"endTime":4501.86,"body":"no, I I"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":4499.55,"endTime":4501.86,"body":"don't think so either. Wow,"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":4501.92,"endTime":4511.91,"body":"that's beautiful. Oh, that's"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":4501.92,"endTime":4511.91,"body":"beautiful. Laura Do you? Yeah, I"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":4511.91,"endTime":4518.75,"body":"love it. Oh my god. Ah, so, um,"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":4511.91,"endTime":4518.75,"body":"to end things off. Okay. We'll"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":4518.75,"endTime":4521.03,"body":"start thinking, I'll start"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":4518.75,"endTime":4521.03,"body":"thinking about bugs and then"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":4521.03,"endTime":4523.79,"body":"maybe I'll start crying too"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":4521.03,"endTime":4523.79,"body":"because I actually I started a"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":4523.79,"endTime":4525.62,"body":"collection of insects. So"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4526.46,"endTime":4530.27,"body":"my son is dating"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4526.46,"endTime":4530.27,"body":"the butterfly baby, Sarah Foltz"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4530.27,"endTime":4535.52,"body":"is her name and she, she mounts"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4530.27,"endTime":4535.52,"body":"butterflies and insects in these"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4535.52,"endTime":4538.28,"body":"beautiful frames that she"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4535.52,"endTime":4538.28,"body":"creates that are like, you know,"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4538.28,"endTime":4541.61,"body":"Gath looking or whatever, and"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4538.28,"endTime":4541.61,"body":"sells them. So a number of"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4541.61,"endTime":4545.78,"body":"pieces of hers in my collection"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4541.61,"endTime":4545.78,"body":"of artwork, but um, I, you know,"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4545.81,"endTime":4548.75,"body":"uh, finally, I'm like, Evan,"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4545.81,"endTime":4548.75,"body":"this one's a keeper. I can you"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4548.75,"endTime":4551.48,"body":"finally got one I can relate to"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4548.75,"endTime":4551.48,"body":"you know, she's a bug lover."},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4551.48,"endTime":4554.12,"body":"He's like, Mom, you know how"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4551.48,"endTime":4554.12,"body":"weird that sounds?"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":4554.779,"endTime":4560.629,"body":"Yeah, but"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":4554.779,"endTime":4560.629,"body":"hey, you know, oh, man, to, uh,"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":4561.169,"endTime":4564.289,"body":"to end things off, I'd like to"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":4561.169,"endTime":4564.289,"body":"hear about your upcoming"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":4564.289,"endTime":4565.549,"body":"workshop. Oh,"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4565.58,"endTime":4569.42,"body":"I've got three"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4565.58,"endTime":4569.42,"body":"left this year to do. And what"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4569.42,"endTime":4573.5,"body":"it is, it's a workshop that I've"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4569.42,"endTime":4573.5,"body":"created. That's all about using"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4573.53,"endTime":4576.62,"body":"fabric and still life. But"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4573.53,"endTime":4576.62,"body":"really what it's about is"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4576.62,"endTime":4580.31,"body":"teaching people what I think are"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4576.62,"endTime":4580.31,"body":"the the basics of realism. So if"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4580.31,"endTime":4583.64,"body":"you look at the old masters like"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4580.31,"endTime":4583.64,"body":"DaVinci, a lot of times and"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4583.64,"endTime":4586.73,"body":"DaVinci was famous, I think, or"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4583.64,"endTime":4586.73,"body":"maybe just because he was famous"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4586.73,"endTime":4591.23,"body":"people know that he took fabric"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4586.73,"endTime":4591.23,"body":"and made sometimes make casts"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4591.23,"endTime":4594.35,"body":"out of it, sometimes just set it"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4591.23,"endTime":4594.35,"body":"up. And then he would have his"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4594.35,"endTime":4597.98,"body":"students and he would paint and"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4594.35,"endTime":4597.98,"body":"draw and sketch the fabric folds"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4598.13,"endTime":4602.12,"body":"to then like he was famous for,"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4598.13,"endTime":4602.12,"body":"you know, he would like take"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4602.12,"endTime":4605.63,"body":"that idea of this is how this"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4602.12,"endTime":4605.63,"body":"gradient is moving in and"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4605.63,"endTime":4608.42,"body":"compare it to other things and"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4605.63,"endTime":4608.42,"body":"other sciences in nature and"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4608.42,"endTime":4612.29,"body":"everything like that. But"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4608.42,"endTime":4612.29,"body":"anyway, he, I think, really"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4612.83,"endTime":4616.16,"body":"started at the right place for"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4612.83,"endTime":4616.16,"body":"people who want to know how to"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4616.16,"endTime":4620.0,"body":"paint in a classically realist"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4616.16,"endTime":4620.0,"body":"style. And so I've taken that,"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4620.06,"endTime":4623.6,"body":"and I've turned it into a"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4620.06,"endTime":4623.6,"body":"workshop where I'm going to be"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4623.6,"endTime":4626.12,"body":"covering, you know, this is what"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4623.6,"endTime":4626.12,"body":"you do for linen. This is what"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4626.12,"endTime":4629.54,"body":"you do for laces is what you do"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4626.12,"endTime":4629.54,"body":"for denim, all that but really,"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4629.57,"endTime":4632.63,"body":"the underlying thing of it all"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4629.57,"endTime":4632.63,"body":"is just how do you turn that"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4632.63,"endTime":4636.26,"body":"form in a realistic way. So you"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4632.63,"endTime":4636.26,"body":"can capture that fold, which is"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4636.26,"endTime":4640.79,"body":"the same as you know, on an any"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4636.26,"endTime":4640.79,"body":"round object, I'm in still life."},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4641.03,"endTime":4644.75,"body":"And so I'm going to be at the"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4641.03,"endTime":4644.75,"body":"Albert Kemper teaching at the"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4644.75,"endTime":4648.65,"body":"end of June. And that's a Museum"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4644.75,"endTime":4648.65,"body":"in St. Louis, Missouri, or St."},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4648.65,"endTime":4653.54,"body":"Joseph, Missouri. And I'm going"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4648.65,"endTime":4653.54,"body":"to be at the Florence Thomas art"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4653.54,"endTime":4657.17,"body":"school. And that is in a little"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4653.54,"endTime":4657.17,"body":"beautiful Appalachian mountain"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4657.17,"endTime":4660.44,"body":"town. It's kind of a touristy"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4657.17,"endTime":4660.44,"body":"town, it's West Jefferson, North"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4660.44,"endTime":4663.44,"body":"Carolina. And that's going to be"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4660.44,"endTime":4663.44,"body":"in the middle of September. And"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4663.44,"endTime":4666.47,"body":"then I'm going to be teaching it"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4663.44,"endTime":4666.47,"body":"at the end of September at the"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4666.47,"endTime":4671.06,"body":"river valley Arts Center, which"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4666.47,"endTime":4671.06,"body":"is a new venue for me. That's"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4671.06,"endTime":4674.87,"body":"down in Russellville, Arkansas,"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4671.06,"endTime":4674.87,"body":"and I haven't been there before,"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4674.87,"endTime":4678.62,"body":"but we have a show that one of"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4674.87,"endTime":4678.62,"body":"the three lady groups that's"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4678.62,"endTime":4680.84,"body":"going to be there at the end of"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4678.62,"endTime":4680.84,"body":"September. So I'm going to do"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4680.84,"endTime":4683.78,"body":"that in conjunction with our"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4680.84,"endTime":4683.78,"body":"opening there. So I'm excited"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4683.78,"endTime":4686.99,"body":"about all of these. And I think"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4683.78,"endTime":4686.99,"body":"that, you know, whether you're a"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4686.99,"endTime":4690.56,"body":"beginner, or an advanced"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4686.99,"endTime":4690.56,"body":"painter, that I'm hopefully"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4690.56,"endTime":4694.1,"body":"going to provide something that"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4690.56,"endTime":4694.1,"body":"everybody can learn from, and I"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4694.1,"endTime":4699.26,"body":"talk really fast. So I give like"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4694.1,"endTime":4699.26,"body":"all the information, it's it's"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4699.26,"endTime":4703.4,"body":"like a dump of everything I"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4699.26,"endTime":4703.4,"body":"know. And then you have to"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4703.4,"endTime":4705.23,"body":"recover before I come back to"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4703.4,"endTime":4705.23,"body":"that venue."},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":4706.729,"endTime":4708.019,"body":"Because"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":4706.729,"endTime":4708.019,"body":"they're gonna have to record you"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":4708.019,"endTime":4710.239,"body":"like just audio record and take"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":4708.019,"endTime":4710.239,"body":"notes."},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4710.719,"endTime":4713.929,"body":"Yeah, yeah. I"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4710.719,"endTime":4713.929,"body":"mean, the experience is fun with"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4713.929,"endTime":4716.749,"body":"these workshops, because then"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4713.929,"endTime":4716.749,"body":"you get to see, you know, what"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4716.749,"endTime":4719.419,"body":"other people's struggles are."},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4716.749,"endTime":4719.419,"body":"And you know, that's what I like"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4719.419,"endTime":4722.119,"body":"about the workshop environment."},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4719.419,"endTime":4722.119,"body":"So it'll be fun."},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":4722.18,"endTime":4724.16,"body":"Yeah. And,"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":4722.18,"endTime":4724.16,"body":"and you get to connect with more"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":4724.16,"endTime":4725.09,"body":"people is also"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4725.12,"endTime":4727.73,"body":"exactly, exactly."},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4725.12,"endTime":4727.73,"body":"And some of these people are"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4727.73,"endTime":4729.98,"body":"ones that I mean, every year,"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4727.73,"endTime":4729.98,"body":"you got to come up with a new"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4729.98,"endTime":4732.32,"body":"workshop, because they've"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4729.98,"endTime":4732.32,"body":"already taken you know, the last"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4732.35,"endTime":4736.61,"body":"two or three or whatever. So,"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4732.35,"endTime":4736.61,"body":"yeah, like, Okay, I got it, kind"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4736.61,"endTime":4739.58,"body":"of like we were saying, you"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4736.61,"endTime":4739.58,"body":"know, what, right when you go,"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4739.64,"endTime":4742.67,"body":"who got that done, you have to"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4739.64,"endTime":4742.67,"body":"come up with your next act,"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4742.67,"endTime":4743.03,"body":"right?"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":4743.21,"endTime":4744.8,"body":"Yeah. Yeah,"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":4743.21,"endTime":4744.8,"body":"the dancing bear."},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4745.76,"endTime":4748.58,"body":"Exactly, exactly."},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4745.76,"endTime":4748.58,"body":"So this is my new dance. And I"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4748.58,"endTime":4751.1,"body":"think I'm excited i are i am"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4748.58,"endTime":4751.1,"body":"excited about it, because people"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4751.1,"endTime":4754.64,"body":"are responding really well. And"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4751.1,"endTime":4754.64,"body":"because I just think, you know,"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4754.64,"endTime":4757.07,"body":"the fabric which I stole this"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4754.64,"endTime":4757.07,"body":"from my friend Natalie"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4757.07,"endTime":4760.16,"body":"Featherston, who did a fabric"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4757.07,"endTime":4760.16,"body":"workshop. And I'm like, Oh,"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4760.28,"endTime":4763.13,"body":"that's a good idea. I'm taking"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4760.28,"endTime":4763.13,"body":"it. She's like, that's okay. I"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4763.13,"endTime":4765.62,"body":"took it from and she named about"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4763.13,"endTime":4765.62,"body":"another person. And like,"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4765.62,"endTime":4768.26,"body":"apparently, that person took it"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4765.62,"endTime":4768.26,"body":"from someone else. So I'm not"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4768.26,"endTime":4771.26,"body":"the first to do a fabric"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4768.26,"endTime":4771.26,"body":"workshop. But you know, and how"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4771.26,"endTime":4774.11,"body":"it relates to still life and"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4771.26,"endTime":4774.11,"body":"different textures, but I'm"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4774.11,"endTime":4775.28,"body":"excited for it. So"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":4775.399,"endTime":4778.339,"body":"yeah, yeah,"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":4775.399,"endTime":4778.339,"body":"I mean, sometimes we have to say"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":4778.339,"endTime":4781.879,"body":"things in different ways so"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":4778.339,"endTime":4781.879,"body":"people can understand the"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":4781.879,"endTime":4785.299,"body":"message. So I think it's great"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":4781.879,"endTime":4785.299,"body":"that it's a bunch of remixes of"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":4785.299,"endTime":4786.049,"body":"the same thing."},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4786.65,"endTime":4789.29,"body":"That's what I do I"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4786.65,"endTime":4789.29,"body":"remix. I'm like this DJ that's"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4789.62,"endTime":4791.75,"body":"in this room mixing life. Yeah."},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":4793.279,"endTime":4796.189,"body":"Oh, man. So"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":4793.279,"endTime":4796.189,"body":"where can people find more of"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":4796.189,"endTime":4796.699,"body":"your work?"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4797.21,"endTime":4800.12,"body":"On my FAFSA"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4797.21,"endTime":4800.12,"body":"website? Of course, yeah. To"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4800.12,"endTime":4804.65,"body":"kr.com and on there I have"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4800.12,"endTime":4804.65,"body":"listed all of my like I'm only"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4804.65,"endTime":4807.71,"body":"on really on Facebook and"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4804.65,"endTime":4807.71,"body":"Instagram, but I have my social"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4807.71,"endTime":4811.16,"body":"media links and then I don't"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4807.71,"endTime":4811.16,"body":"know that I have my galleries"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4811.16,"endTime":4815.66,"body":"listed but I'm the ones that"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4811.16,"endTime":4815.66,"body":"I've spent had the most work in"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4815.66,"endTime":4818.96,"body":"our CSET Art Gallery Nags Head,"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4815.66,"endTime":4818.96,"body":"North Carolina, the cortile"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4818.96,"endTime":4822.2,"body":"gallery in Provincetown,"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4818.96,"endTime":4822.2,"body":"Massachusetts and Bella RTA"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4822.2,"endTime":4825.68,"body":"gallery in Midlothian, Virginia."},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4822.2,"endTime":4825.68,"body":"So and I do like in Florence"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4825.68,"endTime":4828.83,"body":"Thomas art school too, and scojo"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4825.68,"endTime":4828.83,"body":"is in Albuquerque, other places,"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4828.83,"endTime":4830.66,"body":"but those are the primarily ones"},{"speaker":"Debra Keirce","startTime":4828.83,"endTime":4830.66,"body":"Great,"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":4830.75,"endTime":4833.93,"body":"awesome."},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":4830.75,"endTime":4833.93,"body":"Well, thank you so much for your"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":4833.93,"endTime":4839.15,"body":"time, and this wonderful"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":4833.93,"endTime":4839.15,"body":"conversation. Probably have you"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":4839.15,"endTime":4843.29,"body":"on I feel like I'm probably"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":4839.15,"endTime":4843.29,"body":"going to have you on the podcast"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":4843.29,"endTime":4846.29,"body":"again in the future because this"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":4843.29,"endTime":4846.29,"body":"was so fun. Oh, I would love"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":4846.29,"endTime":4846.65,"body":"that."}]}