{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":0.0,"endTime":3.66,"body":"I said, here's the"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":0.0,"endTime":3.66,"body":"best part. I said the last day"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3.84,"endTime":10.98,"body":"of the creation story. God takes"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3.84,"endTime":10.98,"body":"dirt from the earth, and He"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":10.98,"endTime":15.42,"body":"breathes into it, and he"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":10.98,"endTime":15.42,"body":"breathes life into it. Said,"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":15.72,"endTime":20.54,"body":"what we're painting with is dirt"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":15.72,"endTime":20.54,"body":"from the earth. All of our"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":20.54,"endTime":23.66,"body":"pigments are dirt from the"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":20.54,"endTime":23.66,"body":"earth, and we mix a little bit"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":23.66,"endTime":27.32,"body":"of oil into it, so our job is to"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":23.66,"endTime":27.32,"body":"breathe life into it on the"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":27.32,"endTime":28.04,"body":"canvas."},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":28.34,"endTime":30.56,"body":"Welcome to"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":28.34,"endTime":30.56,"body":"the bold brush show where we"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":30.56,"endTime":34.22,"body":"believe that fortune favors the"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":30.56,"endTime":34.22,"body":"bold brush. My name is Laura"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":34.22,"endTime":37.34,"body":"Arango Baier, and I'm your host."},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":34.22,"endTime":37.34,"body":"For those of you who are new to"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":37.34,"endTime":40.22,"body":"the podcast, we are a podcast"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":37.34,"endTime":40.22,"body":"that covers art, marketing"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":40.22,"endTime":42.94,"body":"techniques and all sorts of"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":40.22,"endTime":42.94,"body":"business tips specifically to"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":42.94,"endTime":45.52,"body":"help artists learn to better"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":42.94,"endTime":45.52,"body":"sell their work. We interview"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":45.52,"endTime":48.52,"body":"artists at all stages of their"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":45.52,"endTime":48.52,"body":"careers, as well as others who"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":48.52,"endTime":50.98,"body":"are in careers tied to the art"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":48.52,"endTime":50.98,"body":"world, in order to hear their"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":50.98,"endTime":54.7,"body":"advice and insights to kick off"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":50.98,"endTime":54.7,"body":"season nine, we sat down with"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":54.7,"endTime":57.94,"body":"Thomas Torak, an oil painter who"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":54.7,"endTime":57.94,"body":"embraces the long held"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":57.94,"endTime":60.72,"body":"principles of classical"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":57.94,"endTime":60.72,"body":"painting. Thomas shares his"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":60.72,"endTime":63.48,"body":"journey into classical painting"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":60.72,"endTime":63.48,"body":"inspired by life changing"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":63.48,"endTime":66.9,"body":"experience seeing Rubin's"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":63.48,"endTime":66.9,"body":"painting of the Prometheus. He"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":66.9,"endTime":70.08,"body":"discusses his mentors, Frank"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":66.9,"endTime":70.08,"body":"Mason and Robert Beverly Hale,"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":70.08,"endTime":72.84,"body":"and their influence on his"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":70.08,"endTime":72.84,"body":"approach to painting focused on"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":72.84,"endTime":76.5,"body":"light, space and form. Thomas"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":72.84,"endTime":76.5,"body":"explains his technique of"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":76.5,"endTime":79.62,"body":"building up opacity and"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":76.5,"endTime":79.62,"body":"transparency to create luminous,"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":79.62,"endTime":83.48,"body":"dynamic paintings, and therefore"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":79.62,"endTime":83.48,"body":"breathing life into the canvas."},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":83.84,"endTime":86.72,"body":"He emphasizes the importance of"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":83.84,"endTime":86.72,"body":"understanding anatomy and the"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":86.72,"endTime":90.32,"body":"human form to make art more"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":86.72,"endTime":90.32,"body":"relatable. He also advises"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":90.32,"endTime":93.62,"body":"aspiring artists to study the"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":90.32,"endTime":93.62,"body":"old masters, especially through"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":93.62,"endTime":96.92,"body":"copying drawings. Our"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":93.62,"endTime":96.92,"body":"conversation highlights the joy"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":96.92,"endTime":99.38,"body":"and privilege of the creative"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":96.92,"endTime":99.38,"body":"process and the goal of"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":99.38,"endTime":102.64,"body":"connecting with viewers through"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":99.38,"endTime":102.64,"body":"impactful, emotive paintings."},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":102.82,"endTime":106.12,"body":"Welcome Thomas to the BoldBrush"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":102.82,"endTime":106.12,"body":"show. How are you today?"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":106.66,"endTime":108.88,"body":"I'm just great."},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":106.66,"endTime":108.88,"body":"Thank you so much for having me."},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":108.88,"endTime":112.9,"body":"It's pleasure to come in here"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":108.88,"endTime":112.9,"body":"and chat with you. It's not what"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":112.9,"endTime":118.54,"body":"I normally do. I should be at my"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":112.9,"endTime":118.54,"body":"easel painting and but this,"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":118.84,"endTime":120.04,"body":"this is going to be great."},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":120.52,"endTime":123.0,"body":"Yes, yes."},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":120.52,"endTime":123.0,"body":"And I'm very grateful that"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":123.0,"endTime":126.54,"body":"you're, you were convinced to do"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":123.0,"endTime":126.54,"body":"this. I know that you had some,"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":127.44,"endTime":130.86,"body":"uh, some uh worries about it,"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":127.44,"endTime":130.86,"body":"and you're not a big fan of"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":130.86,"endTime":133.68,"body":"doing this. So I'm very grateful"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":130.86,"endTime":133.68,"body":"that you changed your mind,"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":133.68,"endTime":138.3,"body":"because I think that despite you"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":133.68,"endTime":138.3,"body":"wanting to be painting in front"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":138.3,"endTime":141.14,"body":"of your your easel, you are"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":138.3,"endTime":141.14,"body":"going to be painting with your"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":141.14,"endTime":145.22,"body":"words right now, because I think"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":141.14,"endTime":145.22,"body":"you are probably someone who is"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":145.52,"endTime":148.88,"body":"not, probably definitely someone"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":145.52,"endTime":148.88,"body":"who is full of a lot of wisdom,"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":148.88,"endTime":153.2,"body":"a lot of experience, and I"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":148.88,"endTime":153.2,"body":"think, in my opinion, it's going"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":153.2,"endTime":158.0,"body":"to help a lot of artists who are"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":153.2,"endTime":158.0,"body":"listening to the podcast, who"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":158.12,"endTime":163.66,"body":"are maybe looking for a little"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":158.12,"endTime":163.66,"body":"bit more of that inspiration in"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":163.66,"endTime":167.62,"body":"terms of the creative act of"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":163.66,"endTime":167.62,"body":"painting and finding their voice"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":167.62,"endTime":172.0,"body":"and all of these things that I"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":167.62,"endTime":172.0,"body":"think a lot of us go through and"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":172.06,"endTime":175.06,"body":"struggle with and doubt"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":172.06,"endTime":175.06,"body":"ourselves over. I think you can,"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":176.5,"endTime":177.82,"body":"I guess, help us commiserate."},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":179.62,"endTime":181.32,"body":"No pressure at"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":179.62,"endTime":181.32,"body":"all. Thank you so much."},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":183.0,"endTime":186.3,"body":"You're gonna"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":183.0,"endTime":186.3,"body":"do amazing. Amazing because, of"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":186.3,"endTime":190.26,"body":"course, we were just talking"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":186.3,"endTime":190.26,"body":"before we were recording, and I"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":190.26,"endTime":194.16,"body":"think just from hearing you talk"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":190.26,"endTime":194.16,"body":"for the past, I don't know how"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":194.16,"endTime":198.54,"body":"long we were chatting, you're"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":194.16,"endTime":198.54,"body":"amazing. You're amazing. And I'm"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":198.54,"endTime":203.72,"body":"excited to talk to you about"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":198.54,"endTime":203.72,"body":"everything creative, everything"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":203.72,"endTime":205.88,"body":"in the creative act. This"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":203.72,"endTime":205.88,"body":"episode is a little bit"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":205.88,"endTime":208.16,"body":"different, of course, because"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":205.88,"endTime":208.16,"body":"we're not going to be talking"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":208.16,"endTime":211.34,"body":"marketing. But obviously you"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":208.16,"endTime":211.34,"body":"can't have marketing, and you"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":211.34,"endTime":215.6,"body":"can't have business without the"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":211.34,"endTime":215.6,"body":"art itself, right? So I think"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":215.6,"endTime":219.8,"body":"this episode is going to be"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":215.6,"endTime":219.8,"body":"dedicated to that, the creative"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":219.8,"endTime":226.06,"body":"act, the the womb of everything"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":219.8,"endTime":226.06,"body":"that, you know, we do as artists"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":226.06,"endTime":229.66,"body":"that ends up, you know,"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":226.06,"endTime":229.66,"body":"becoming, quote, unquote, a"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":229.66,"endTime":233.68,"body":"business or, you know,"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":229.66,"endTime":233.68,"body":"marketing, yeah, it, you"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":233.68,"endTime":238.84,"body":"know, marketing is"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":233.68,"endTime":238.84,"body":"fine, but if you have a"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":238.84,"endTime":242.4,"body":"masterpiece that you're trying"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":238.84,"endTime":242.4,"body":"to market, so much the better,"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":243.66,"endTime":245.88,"body":"exactly,"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":243.66,"endTime":245.88,"body":"exactly. You can't you can't do"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":245.88,"endTime":249.24,"body":"anything without the art. You"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":245.88,"endTime":249.24,"body":"can intellectualize things, but"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":249.24,"endTime":249.6,"body":"it's not"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":249.6,"endTime":251.28,"body":"the same."},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":249.6,"endTime":251.28,"body":"Marketing is so much easier when"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":251.28,"endTime":254.1,"body":"you really have something that"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":251.28,"endTime":254.1,"body":"people want exactly,"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":254.1,"endTime":256.56,"body":"exactly,"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":254.1,"endTime":256.56,"body":"which is why I've got you here."},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":256.92,"endTime":259.38,"body":"Alright. So, so, yeah, yeah."},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":259.56,"endTime":260.48,"body":"Where should we"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":259.56,"endTime":260.48,"body":"start?"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":260.9,"endTime":263.48,"body":"Well, we"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":260.9,"endTime":263.48,"body":"should start with telling us a"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":263.48,"endTime":266.6,"body":"bit about who you are and what"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":263.48,"endTime":266.6,"body":"you do, who"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":266.6,"endTime":272.72,"body":"I am. Well, I was"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":266.6,"endTime":272.72,"body":"born in a very, very, very, very"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":272.72,"endTime":277.76,"body":"different time than we are"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":272.72,"endTime":277.76,"body":"living in. I was born in 1953 I"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":277.76,"endTime":284.26,"body":"was the third of six children in"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":277.76,"endTime":284.26,"body":"a middle class family, and it"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":284.26,"endTime":288.4,"body":"was an absolutely lovely way to"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":284.26,"endTime":288.4,"body":"grow up and nowhere, you know, I"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":288.4,"endTime":291.76,"body":"was safe, I was secure. I had"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":288.4,"endTime":291.76,"body":"lots and lots and lots of"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":291.76,"endTime":296.92,"body":"family, you know, friends. I did"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":291.76,"endTime":296.92,"body":"well at school, everything was"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":296.92,"endTime":302.46,"body":"great. And then I graduated"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":296.92,"endTime":302.46,"body":"from. School, and all of my"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":302.46,"endTime":308.22,"body":"friends went away to college,"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":302.46,"endTime":308.22,"body":"and I decided not to go. It"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":308.28,"endTime":313.38,"body":"wasn't for I didn't even take"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":308.28,"endTime":313.38,"body":"the SATs. It was not for me. And"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":313.44,"endTime":318.72,"body":"even though I was a good"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":313.44,"endTime":318.72,"body":"student, I was not interested in"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":318.78,"endTime":322.4,"body":"any academic subject to the"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":318.78,"endTime":322.4,"body":"degree that I wanted to go into"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":322.4,"endTime":329.78,"body":"10s of 1000s of dollars of debt"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":322.4,"endTime":329.78,"body":"to to, you know, to further"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":329.78,"endTime":338.06,"body":"that. But what I did is it gave"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":329.78,"endTime":338.06,"body":"me all of this time to think"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":338.06,"endTime":342.94,"body":"about who I was and what I"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":338.06,"endTime":342.94,"body":"wanted to do with my life. Was"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":342.94,"endTime":346.66,"body":"it, you know, up until then, I"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":342.94,"endTime":346.66,"body":"was living the dream, but it was"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":346.66,"endTime":354.04,"body":"my parents dream. It wasn't my"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":346.66,"endTime":354.04,"body":"dream. And so I had always loved"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":354.52,"endTime":362.34,"body":"drawing as a kid, and my family"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":354.52,"endTime":362.34,"body":"had no knowledge of the art"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":362.34,"endTime":366.06,"body":"world. Somebody once told me I"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":362.34,"endTime":366.06,"body":"had a culturally deprived"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":366.06,"endTime":371.28,"body":"childhood, which I thought was,"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":366.06,"endTime":371.28,"body":"it was kind of a sweet way of"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":371.28,"endTime":377.94,"body":"putting it. But they, you know,"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":371.28,"endTime":377.94,"body":"I would draw and and, you know,"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":377.94,"endTime":380.54,"body":"very little reaction, very"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":377.94,"endTime":380.54,"body":"little encouragement, but I love"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":380.54,"endTime":386.6,"body":"doing it. And after all my"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":380.54,"endTime":386.6,"body":"friends went to college, I"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":386.72,"endTime":390.14,"body":"bought a few paints, and I"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":386.72,"endTime":390.14,"body":"started to paint a little bit,"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":390.14,"endTime":396.92,"body":"and realized I knew nothing"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":390.14,"endTime":396.92,"body":"about it, and and so I decided I"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":396.92,"endTime":401.62,"body":"should learn something about"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":396.92,"endTime":401.62,"body":"painting. And because I had this"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":401.62,"endTime":404.92,"body":"this culturally deprived"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":401.62,"endTime":404.92,"body":"childhood, I had never been to a"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":404.92,"endTime":410.5,"body":"museum. My parents had never"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":404.92,"endTime":410.5,"body":"been to a museum. None of my"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":410.5,"endTime":415.9,"body":"friends had ever been to a"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":410.5,"endTime":415.9,"body":"museum. So I decided I'm going"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":415.9,"endTime":420.18,"body":"to go to a museum, and I took"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":415.9,"endTime":420.18,"body":"myself to Philadelphia, which"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":420.18,"endTime":423.9,"body":"was about in little over an hour"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":420.18,"endTime":423.9,"body":"from where I lived. And do you"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":423.9,"endTime":426.0,"body":"know the Philadelphia Museum at"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":423.9,"endTime":426.0,"body":"all? Laura,"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":426.36,"endTime":428.88,"body":"I don't,"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":426.36,"endTime":428.88,"body":"unfortunately. Oh, well, have"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":428.88,"endTime":429.12,"body":"you? Have"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":429.12,"endTime":432.96,"body":"you seen the movie"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":429.12,"endTime":432.96,"body":"Rocky? I have when rocky goes up"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":432.96,"endTime":437.34,"body":"this big, big staircase and he"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":432.96,"endTime":437.34,"body":"stands at the top and looks out"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":437.34,"endTime":441.18,"body":"over the the entire city and"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":437.34,"endTime":441.18,"body":"triumphant, yes, that's the"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":441.18,"endTime":447.08,"body":"staircase leading up to the"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":441.18,"endTime":447.08,"body":"Philadelphia Museum. So you can"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":447.38,"endTime":452.9,"body":"I'll let you try and make a"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":447.38,"endTime":452.9,"body":"mental image of this that I was"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":452.9,"endTime":457.16,"body":"a skinny little kid. I was"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":452.9,"endTime":457.16,"body":"always the smallest kid in my"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":457.16,"endTime":464.68,"body":"class. I was no wider than a"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":457.16,"endTime":464.68,"body":"twig, but it was, well, by then,"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":464.68,"endTime":470.26,"body":"it was the early 70s, had blonde"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":464.68,"endTime":470.26,"body":"hair down to my shoulders, so"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":470.86,"endTime":475.12,"body":"imagine this skinny little kid"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":470.86,"endTime":475.12,"body":"getting to the drove myself to"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":475.12,"endTime":479.2,"body":"the Philadelphia Museum, and"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":475.12,"endTime":479.2,"body":"there's this incredible"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":479.2,"endTime":484.56,"body":"staircase In front of me, and I"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":479.2,"endTime":484.56,"body":"start climbing these stairs, and"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":485.04,"endTime":490.44,"body":"it's almost like I'm at Mount"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":485.04,"endTime":490.44,"body":"Olympus and and I am making my"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":490.44,"endTime":496.08,"body":"way up to where the gods live."},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":490.44,"endTime":496.08,"body":"And it literally turned out to"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":496.08,"endTime":499.86,"body":"be that for me, you know, I was"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":496.08,"endTime":499.86,"body":"literally going to a place where"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":499.86,"endTime":505.1,"body":"I would meet my gods. And as I"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":499.86,"endTime":505.1,"body":"got to the top, and I paid, and"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":505.1,"endTime":509.42,"body":"I went in, and the first room,"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":505.1,"endTime":509.42,"body":"there were some, some small"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":509.42,"endTime":513.62,"body":"Renaissance pieces, little an"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":509.42,"endTime":513.62,"body":"altar piece. I was an altar boy."},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":513.62,"endTime":516.62,"body":"I'd seen many, many altars in my"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":513.62,"endTime":516.62,"body":"life that didn't interest me."},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":517.46,"endTime":521.62,"body":"And then I turned the corner and"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":517.46,"endTime":521.62,"body":"went in the next room, and"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":521.62,"endTime":526.42,"body":"literally, the first painting I"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":521.62,"endTime":526.42,"body":"ever saw in my life was Ruben's"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":526.42,"endTime":534.46,"body":"Prometheus, and it is a life"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":526.42,"endTime":534.46,"body":"size painting of Rubens tumbling"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":534.52,"endTime":539.8,"body":"upside down out of the canvas"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":534.52,"endTime":539.8,"body":"and the eagle coming in on the"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":539.8,"endTime":545.4,"body":"other side of the canvas and"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":539.8,"endTime":545.4,"body":"pecking out his liver. And I was"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":545.46,"endTime":549.96,"body":"stunned, you know, I call it my"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":545.46,"endTime":549.96,"body":"Saint Paul moment, I felt like I"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":549.96,"endTime":554.94,"body":"had been struck by lightning,"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":549.96,"endTime":554.94,"body":"and I was seeing this incredible"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":554.94,"endTime":561.38,"body":"thing, and I must have gone into"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":554.94,"endTime":561.38,"body":"a trance, you know, I was"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":561.38,"endTime":564.5,"body":"standing there. God knows how"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":561.38,"endTime":564.5,"body":"long, 10 minutes, 15 minutes, I"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":564.5,"endTime":570.2,"body":"have no idea, until I realized"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":564.5,"endTime":570.2,"body":"people were staring at me. And,"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":570.68,"endTime":575.48,"body":"you know, at that point, I"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":570.68,"endTime":575.48,"body":"snapped out of it, and but I"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":575.54,"endTime":579.86,"body":"almost felt like I was there at"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":575.54,"endTime":579.86,"body":"the scene, and this was"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":579.86,"endTime":585.7,"body":"happening, and I got to witness"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":579.86,"endTime":585.7,"body":"this. This this great punishment"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":585.7,"endTime":593.2,"body":"for Prometheus. And it was so"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":585.7,"endTime":593.2,"body":"astonishing. It was so amazing."},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":593.98,"endTime":599.5,"body":"And I decided at that moment, I"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":593.98,"endTime":599.5,"body":"said, this is what I'm going to"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":599.5,"endTime":605.16,"body":"do with my. Life, I'm going to"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":599.5,"endTime":605.16,"body":"draw and paint like this. And I"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":605.16,"endTime":609.36,"body":"didn't mean I was going to try"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":605.16,"endTime":609.36,"body":"and be Rubens. I wasn't going to"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":609.36,"endTime":614.82,"body":"paint like Rubens, but I wanted"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":609.36,"endTime":614.82,"body":"to paint with that kind of power"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":615.18,"endTime":619.68,"body":"and that kind of authority, so"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":615.18,"endTime":619.68,"body":"that when people look at my"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":619.68,"endTime":624.32,"body":"paintings, you know, maybe"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":619.68,"endTime":624.32,"body":"they'll stop for a minute and"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":624.38,"endTime":630.08,"body":"and their life will be, you"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":624.38,"endTime":630.08,"body":"know, affected a little bit."},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":630.14,"endTime":634.22,"body":"And, you know, I love it when I"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":630.14,"endTime":634.22,"body":"have, at one point, last summer,"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":634.22,"endTime":636.62,"body":"I had somebody come in my"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":634.22,"endTime":636.62,"body":"studio, and they were looking at"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":636.62,"endTime":641.26,"body":"paintings and and they had their"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":636.62,"endTime":641.26,"body":"back turned to me, I had a still"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":641.26,"endTime":645.4,"body":"life on the floor, and they were"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":641.26,"endTime":645.4,"body":"looking at the still life, and"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":645.4,"endTime":649.96,"body":"they were crying, and I didn't"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":645.4,"endTime":649.96,"body":"know, I just I was talking to"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":649.96,"endTime":653.98,"body":"somebody else, and and finally I"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":649.96,"endTime":653.98,"body":"looked over, I said, you know,"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":653.98,"endTime":659.02,"body":"are you okay? It's just so"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":653.98,"endTime":659.02,"body":"beautiful. And you know, that's"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":659.02,"endTime":663.18,"body":"the greatest reward you can get"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":659.02,"endTime":663.18,"body":"as an artist is that somebody"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":663.18,"endTime":668.88,"body":"has moved to tears by your work."},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":663.18,"endTime":668.88,"body":"So it so that was a, you know, a"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":668.88,"endTime":673.26,"body":"great moment for me, and that's"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":668.88,"endTime":673.26,"body":"when I started this great"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":673.26,"endTime":677.22,"body":"journey. And then when I got"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":673.26,"endTime":677.22,"body":"back from the museum, I said,"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":677.22,"endTime":681.74,"body":"Okay, how do I do this? No, I"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":677.22,"endTime":681.74,"body":"had no idea. I didn't have any"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":681.74,"endTime":684.5,"body":"guidance. There was no guidance"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":681.74,"endTime":684.5,"body":"counselor, and there was my"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":684.5,"endTime":688.58,"body":"parents didn't know anything."},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":684.5,"endTime":688.58,"body":"And how do I do this? And I just"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":689.12,"endTime":693.44,"body":"I wrote to every art school in"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":689.12,"endTime":693.44,"body":"the country that I could find,"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":693.62,"endTime":698.3,"body":"and I got brochure after"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":693.62,"endTime":698.3,"body":"brochure after brochure, and"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":698.36,"endTime":703.18,"body":"they were all pretty much the"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":698.36,"endTime":703.18,"body":"same that, you know, it's a four"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":703.18,"endTime":707.86,"body":"year course, and it costs a lot"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":703.18,"endTime":707.86,"body":"of money, and you have to study"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":709.54,"endTime":713.08,"body":"photography and painting and"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":709.54,"endTime":713.08,"body":"etching and print making and all"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":713.08,"endTime":715.9,"body":"these you have to do all of"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":713.08,"endTime":715.9,"body":"these different things. I just"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":715.9,"endTime":719.26,"body":"wanted to paint. I didn't want"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":715.9,"endTime":719.26,"body":"to do all these other things. I"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":719.26,"endTime":722.28,"body":"just wanted to paint. And I got"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":719.26,"endTime":722.28,"body":"the catalog from the Art"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":722.28,"endTime":727.56,"body":"Students League, and I looked at"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":722.28,"endTime":727.56,"body":"it, and you can go whenever you"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":727.56,"endTime":732.42,"body":"want. It was incredibly"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":727.56,"endTime":732.42,"body":"affordable. And I looked at the"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":732.42,"endTime":735.78,"body":"instructors, and they were 100"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":732.42,"endTime":735.78,"body":"times better than anybody"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":735.78,"endTime":740.16,"body":"teaching at any of the other"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":735.78,"endTime":740.16,"body":"schools. And, you know, I"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":740.46,"endTime":745.22,"body":"happened to come across Frank"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":740.46,"endTime":745.22,"body":"Mason in a magazine that I had"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":745.22,"endTime":749.06,"body":"read, and Frank Mason was at the"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":745.22,"endTime":749.06,"body":"school. And I said, Okay, that's"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":749.06,"endTime":754.46,"body":"where I'm going. And I I just,"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":749.06,"endTime":754.46,"body":"you know, I was working in a"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":754.46,"endTime":757.16,"body":"factory at the time, and I"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":754.46,"endTime":757.16,"body":"worked for one more year,"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":757.22,"endTime":762.88,"body":"literally, one year from the day"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":757.22,"endTime":762.88,"body":"I saw the Rubens and and then I"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":762.88,"endTime":767.92,"body":"quit, and I sold my car, and I"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":762.88,"endTime":767.92,"body":"moved to New York, and I knew"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":767.92,"endTime":775.12,"body":"nobody. I I literally had $2,000"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":767.92,"endTime":775.12,"body":"in my pocket, and I had two big"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":775.12,"endTime":780.66,"body":"suitcases, and I didn't know"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":775.12,"endTime":780.66,"body":"anybody. I didn't I had no"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":780.66,"endTime":784.8,"body":"friends, no relatives. I didn't"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":780.66,"endTime":784.8,"body":"know a soul in the city. I had"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":784.8,"endTime":789.78,"body":"no place to stay. I just went to"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":784.8,"endTime":789.78,"body":"New York, literally just went to"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":789.78,"endTime":793.32,"body":"New York. And first thing I did"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":789.78,"endTime":793.32,"body":"was go to the Art Students"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":793.32,"endTime":798.42,"body":"League with my suitcases and"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":793.32,"endTime":798.42,"body":"sign up to take a class. And"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":798.42,"endTime":803.0,"body":"then I went to the 63rd Street"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":798.42,"endTime":803.0,"body":"YMCA. And and from there, I"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":803.0,"endTime":810.08,"body":"found my way. And, you know, it"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":803.0,"endTime":810.08,"body":"was a great way to start, but I"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":810.32,"endTime":816.26,"body":"I promised you a story from"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":810.32,"endTime":816.26,"body":"Rubin's letters. And there,"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":816.26,"endTime":819.74,"body":"there's one of my favorite"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":816.26,"endTime":819.74,"body":"letters he went, of course,"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":819.74,"endTime":824.86,"body":"Rubens was somebody who did"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":819.74,"endTime":824.86,"body":"incredibly well with his paint."},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":824.86,"endTime":828.58,"body":"He was not the starving artist."},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":824.86,"endTime":828.58,"body":"He did incredibly well and built"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":828.58,"endTime":831.64,"body":"a beautiful, beautiful home in"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":828.58,"endTime":831.64,"body":"Antwerp, which you can still go"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":831.64,"endTime":839.08,"body":"to. And as he was building that,"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":831.64,"endTime":839.08,"body":"he wanted to have some marble"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":839.08,"endTime":842.34,"body":"busts to put, I think, around"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":839.08,"endTime":842.34,"body":"the the courtyard. He wanted"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":842.34,"endTime":848.4,"body":"some marble busts around the"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":842.34,"endTime":848.4,"body":"top. And, you know, emperors in"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":848.4,"endTime":853.2,"body":"various great figures from"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":848.4,"endTime":853.2,"body":"history and and he wrote a"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":853.2,"endTime":857.94,"body":"letter. I think it was trying to"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":853.2,"endTime":857.94,"body":"remember, I think it was"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":857.94,"endTime":861.62,"body":"somebody named like, like Dudley"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":857.94,"endTime":861.62,"body":"Carlton or something. And so he"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":861.62,"endTime":866.9,"body":"wrote to this fellow, and he"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":861.62,"endTime":866.9,"body":"said, I want to buy the bus that"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":866.9,"endTime":871.1,"body":"you have, and I would like to"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":866.9,"endTime":871.1,"body":"trade paintings for them. And he"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":871.1,"endTime":874.88,"body":"gave him said, here's a list of"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":871.1,"endTime":874.88,"body":"paintings that are in my studio"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":874.88,"endTime":880.18,"body":"that are available right now,"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":874.88,"endTime":880.18,"body":"and we could make a trade. And"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":880.72,"endTime":883.96,"body":"it was just such a wonderful"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":880.72,"endTime":883.96,"body":"list, because I knew all the"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":883.96,"endTime":887.5,"body":"paintings, one was the"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":883.96,"endTime":887.5,"body":"Prometheus, and he said the"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":887.5,"endTime":892.54,"body":"Prometheus, the the figure was"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":887.5,"endTime":892.54,"body":"painted by my hand, entirely by"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":892.54,"endTime":898.78,"body":"me. The eagle was by French"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":892.54,"endTime":898.78,"body":"Schneiders. And so there you"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":898.78,"endTime":903.36,"body":"already have. I. Dave how his"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":898.78,"endTime":903.36,"body":"studio worked, and he had other"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":903.36,"endTime":907.5,"body":"paintings. Some were painted by"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":903.36,"endTime":907.5,"body":"the best of my students. Some"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":907.5,"endTime":911.28,"body":"were by the best of my students,"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":907.5,"endTime":911.28,"body":"but retouched by my own hand."},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":911.88,"endTime":919.38,"body":"Some were were painted entirely"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":911.88,"endTime":919.38,"body":"by me. And the last one was"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":919.38,"endTime":925.1,"body":"Daniel and the lion's den, and"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":919.38,"endTime":925.1,"body":"which is in Washington, and it's"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":925.1,"endTime":929.3,"body":"a fabulous painting, big,"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":925.1,"endTime":929.3,"body":"beautiful, big painting. And he"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":929.3,"endTime":934.22,"body":"said it was painted entirely by"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":929.3,"endTime":934.22,"body":"my own hand. And then the part I"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":934.22,"endTime":938.9,"body":"love the best, he said the lions"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":934.22,"endTime":938.9,"body":"were painted from life. No,"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":939.38,"endTime":940.9,"body":"yeah, can you imagine?"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":942.58,"endTime":946.18,"body":"And knowing Rubens, he probably"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":942.58,"endTime":946.18,"body":"had somebody bring lions to his"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":946.18,"endTime":949.3,"body":"studio so he could study them"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":946.18,"endTime":949.3,"body":"and just let them walk around."},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":949.84,"endTime":953.62,"body":"But I thought, what a incredible"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":949.84,"endTime":953.62,"body":"thing. You know, the lions were"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":953.62,"endTime":958.6,"body":"painted from life. And you know,"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":953.62,"endTime":958.6,"body":"how can you not love somebody"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":958.6,"endTime":963.96,"body":"like this? So this was, this was"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":958.6,"endTime":963.96,"body":"my goal, to learn to paint with"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":963.96,"endTime":967.86,"body":"the kind of power and the kind"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":963.96,"endTime":967.86,"body":"of authority that Rubens had,"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":968.16,"endTime":972.9,"body":"and I've spent the last 50 years"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":968.16,"endTime":972.9,"body":"studying his paintings and his"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":972.9,"endTime":979.2,"body":"technique try and figure out"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":972.9,"endTime":979.2,"body":"what made his paintings so"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":979.2,"endTime":986.66,"body":"different from so many others,"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":979.2,"endTime":986.66,"body":"and he did. He was also a"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":986.66,"endTime":990.5,"body":"diplomat. On one trip, he went"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":986.66,"endTime":990.5,"body":"to Spain on a peacekeeping"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":990.5,"endTime":996.98,"body":"mission and and while he was"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":990.5,"endTime":996.98,"body":"there, he met the last the young"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":996.98,"endTime":1002.28,"body":"Velasquez, and Velasquez spent"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":996.98,"endTime":1002.28,"body":"time with him. He was there for"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":1002.28,"endTime":1006.12,"body":"several months, and and one of"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":1002.28,"endTime":1006.12,"body":"the things Rubens did while he"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":1006.12,"endTime":1011.76,"body":"was there, he copied every"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":1006.12,"endTime":1011.76,"body":"Titian that was in the king's"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":1011.76,"endTime":1015.9,"body":"collection, and it was the rape"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":1011.76,"endTime":1015.9,"body":"of Europa and Susanna at her"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":1015.9,"endTime":1020.12,"body":"mirror. And, you know, various"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":1015.9,"endTime":1020.12,"body":"tremendous things. And it was so"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":1020.12,"endTime":1025.94,"body":"fascinating because he didn't"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":1020.12,"endTime":1025.94,"body":"copy them so that he could make"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":1025.94,"endTime":1030.32,"body":"them look exactly like Titian,"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":1025.94,"endTime":1030.32,"body":"but he was learning from Titian,"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":1030.32,"endTime":1035.12,"body":"and yet painting with his own"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":1030.32,"endTime":1035.12,"body":"hand. And so that's, that's what"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":1035.72,"endTime":1039.92,"body":"I wanted to do as a young, 20"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":1035.72,"endTime":1039.92,"body":"year old, when I landed in New"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":1039.92,"endTime":1043.06,"body":"York, I wanted to paint like"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":1039.92,"endTime":1043.06,"body":"Rubens, but I wanted to paint"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":1043.06,"endTime":1047.8,"body":"with my own hand. I, you know, I"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":1043.06,"endTime":1047.8,"body":"did not want to be a little tiny"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":1047.8,"endTime":1054.64,"body":"Rubens, you know, 400 years"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":1047.8,"endTime":1054.64,"body":"later. But it's astonishing"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":1054.64,"endTime":1059.74,"body":"that, you know, to think that"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":1054.64,"endTime":1059.74,"body":"you can do a painting and some"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":1059.74,"endTime":1064.32,"body":"young person will come along 400"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":1059.74,"endTime":1064.32,"body":"years from now and have that"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":1064.32,"endTime":1070.26,"body":"painting change their life as a"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":1064.32,"endTime":1070.26,"body":"pretty powerful thing. It's"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":1070.26,"endTime":1071.22,"body":"pretty astonishing."},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":1072.06,"endTime":1072.48,"body":"It is, it"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":1072.78,"endTime":1074.58,"body":"is so, so that's"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":1072.78,"endTime":1074.58,"body":"how I got to that's how I"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":1074.58,"endTime":1075.48,"body":"started painting"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":1077.4,"endTime":1081.8,"body":"that I love,"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":1077.4,"endTime":1081.8,"body":"that that was, wow. That was a"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":1081.8,"endTime":1086.18,"body":"beautiful anecdote, you know, to"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":1081.8,"endTime":1086.18,"body":"hear how you went through"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":1086.18,"endTime":1089.24,"body":"everything. And then, of course,"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":1086.18,"endTime":1089.24,"body":"if I can relate deeply to that,"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":1089.24,"endTime":1093.62,"body":"because one of my first loves,"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":1089.24,"endTime":1093.62,"body":"aside from Da Vinci, because I"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":1093.62,"endTime":1095.78,"body":"feel like a lot of us, you know,"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":1093.62,"endTime":1095.78,"body":"Da Vinci is amazing, but"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":1095.78,"endTime":1100.72,"body":"definitely Rubens was one of the"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":1095.78,"endTime":1100.72,"body":"most you you just look at a"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":1100.72,"endTime":1105.16,"body":"Rubens, and it blows your mind."},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":1100.72,"endTime":1105.16,"body":"And then I actually got the the"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":1105.16,"endTime":1109.24,"body":"opportunity to visit his house"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":1105.16,"endTime":1109.24,"body":"in Antwerp, and it's incredible."},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":1109.24,"endTime":1112.66,"body":"His studio is massive, and I can"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":1109.24,"endTime":1112.66,"body":"imagine, you know, if he did"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":1112.66,"endTime":1115.72,"body":"have those lines there, he"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":1112.66,"endTime":1115.72,"body":"definitely had more than enough"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":1115.72,"endTime":1120.1,"body":"space. Yeah, that can assure"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":1115.72,"endTime":1120.1,"body":"you, amazing, amazing. And,"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":1120.58,"endTime":1121.26,"body":"yeah, he's"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":1122.46,"endTime":1125.94,"body":"well, I did read"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":1122.46,"endTime":1125.94,"body":"some place where, when he was"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":1125.94,"endTime":1127.98,"body":"painting in his studio, of"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":1125.94,"endTime":1127.98,"body":"course, it was so big, the"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":1127.98,"endTime":1131.16,"body":"students were also working on"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":1127.98,"endTime":1131.16,"body":"things at the same time. But"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":1131.16,"endTime":1134.7,"body":"when he had the Duke of"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":1131.16,"endTime":1134.7,"body":"Buckingham, where somebody would"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":1134.7,"endTime":1139.56,"body":"come for their portrait sitting,"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":1134.7,"endTime":1139.56,"body":"they would sit for one hour. And"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":1139.56,"endTime":1144.92,"body":"the way it worked was they would"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":1139.56,"endTime":1144.92,"body":"come in and the students would"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":1144.92,"endTime":1150.8,"body":"get them all set up, and Rubens"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":1144.92,"endTime":1150.8,"body":"would come in, and the students"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":1150.8,"endTime":1155.0,"body":"had their job was to prepare the"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":1150.8,"endTime":1155.0,"body":"palette for him to grind all the"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":1155.0,"endTime":1159.68,"body":"paint fresh. And so he's there"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":1155.0,"endTime":1159.68,"body":"with a fresh palette on the"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":1159.68,"endTime":1163.24,"body":"balk. If you remember, there's a"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":1159.68,"endTime":1163.24,"body":"balcony in his studio, and on"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":1163.24,"endTime":1168.04,"body":"the balcony was a string quartet"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":1163.24,"endTime":1168.04,"body":"that was going to play as they"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":1168.04,"endTime":1172.9,"body":"were painting. And on the other"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":1168.04,"endTime":1172.9,"body":"side of the room was somebody"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":1172.9,"endTime":1177.88,"body":"reading Cicero. And this is the"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":1172.9,"endTime":1177.88,"body":"way Rubens would paint. He would"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":1177.88,"endTime":1180.42,"body":"he would have the music, he"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":1177.88,"endTime":1180.42,"body":"would have Cicero. He would be"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":1180.42,"endTime":1183.3,"body":"concentrating on his painting."},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":1180.42,"endTime":1183.3,"body":"He'd be having a conversation"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":1183.3,"endTime":1186.84,"body":"with the person. And all of"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":1183.3,"endTime":1186.84,"body":"these things would be going on"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":1186.84,"endTime":1194.4,"body":"at the same time. It's, I mean,"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":1186.84,"endTime":1194.4,"body":"I like to listen to music when I"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":1194.4,"endTime":1197.34,"body":"paint, but if somebody comes in"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":1194.4,"endTime":1197.34,"body":"and starts the conversation, I"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":1197.34,"endTime":1198.48,"body":"have to put my brush down."},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":1199.56,"endTime":1201.92,"body":"Yeah. Yeah,"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":1199.56,"endTime":1201.92,"body":"I'm, I'm the same way. That goes"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":1201.92,"endTime":1207.56,"body":"to show too, how, you know,"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":1201.92,"endTime":1207.56,"body":"first off, that's kind of crazy"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":1207.56,"endTime":1209.96,"body":"that he had someone reading"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":1207.56,"endTime":1209.96,"body":"Cicero and the music, because"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":1209.96,"endTime":1212.72,"body":"it's kind of like artists today"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":1209.96,"endTime":1212.72,"body":"who maybe have music playing and"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":1212.72,"endTime":1216.14,"body":"like a podcast going in the"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":1212.72,"endTime":1216.14,"body":"background, or an audiobook,"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":1216.56,"endTime":1220.16,"body":"yeah, yeah. And then to talk"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":1216.56,"endTime":1220.16,"body":"about talking to the sitter."},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":1220.7,"endTime":1226.48,"body":"Wow, that. It goes to show that"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":1220.7,"endTime":1226.48,"body":"he probably had so much muscle"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":1226.48,"endTime":1231.28,"body":"memory, you know, to be able to"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":1226.48,"endTime":1231.28,"body":"multitask in that way. Because"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":1231.28,"endTime":1231.64,"body":"his work"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":1231.64,"endTime":1237.28,"body":"is just Yeah, his"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":1231.64,"endTime":1237.28,"body":"facility is beyond anybody, yes,"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":1237.34,"endTime":1243.42,"body":"anybody, not, not, you know, I,"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":1237.34,"endTime":1243.42,"body":"I I apologize to every artist"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":1243.42,"endTime":1248.16,"body":"listening to this, but Rubens"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":1243.42,"endTime":1248.16,"body":"was better than you. Rubens had"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":1248.16,"endTime":1253.44,"body":"this facility that was just so"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":1248.16,"endTime":1253.44,"body":"astonishing. I remember seeing a"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":1254.4,"endTime":1260.6,"body":"a small painting that he did. It"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":1254.4,"endTime":1260.6,"body":"was ahead of Medusa, and it was"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":1260.6,"endTime":1263.54,"body":"on a table. It was just already"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":1260.6,"endTime":1263.54,"body":"had been cut off, and it was on"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":1263.54,"endTime":1269.48,"body":"a table. And there were snakes,"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":1263.54,"endTime":1269.48,"body":"of course, around the brown the"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":1269.48,"endTime":1275.48,"body":"head. And they were painted with"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":1269.48,"endTime":1275.48,"body":"such astonishing facility. I"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":1275.48,"endTime":1278.84,"body":"could see the the ground of the"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":1275.48,"endTime":1278.84,"body":"canvas. I could see the drawing"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":1278.84,"endTime":1281.68,"body":"of the snake. I could see the"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":1278.84,"endTime":1281.68,"body":"form and the character and all"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":1281.68,"endTime":1285.04,"body":"these things. And it was"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":1281.68,"endTime":1285.04,"body":"probably something that he"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":1285.04,"endTime":1286.36,"body":"dashed off in no time,"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":1286.96,"endTime":1288.4,"body":"yeah, yeah."},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":1288.82,"endTime":1294.88,"body":"And there, there"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":1288.82,"endTime":1294.88,"body":"is a painting maybe in, might be"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":1294.88,"endTime":1301.2,"body":"in the louver of figures in a"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":1294.88,"endTime":1301.2,"body":"landscape, dancing big painting,"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":1302.16,"endTime":1306.12,"body":"you know, of course, and it's"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":1302.16,"endTime":1306.12,"body":"figures dancing in a circle."},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":1306.12,"endTime":1309.78,"body":"It's called the Flemish kermice."},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":1306.12,"endTime":1309.78,"body":"And they're, they're all dancing"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":1309.78,"endTime":1314.4,"body":"and and there's, you can find"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":1309.78,"endTime":1314.4,"body":"some preliminary drawings that"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":1314.4,"endTime":1318.54,"body":"he had done for some of the"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":1314.4,"endTime":1318.54,"body":"figures, probably from life. And"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":1319.62,"endTime":1322.7,"body":"so there's this whole thing is"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":1319.62,"endTime":1322.7,"body":"going on, there's landscape,"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":1322.7,"endTime":1326.6,"body":"there's figures, there's a dog"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":1322.7,"endTime":1326.6,"body":"doing something in the corner,"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":1326.6,"endTime":1335.66,"body":"and all kinds of stuff going on."},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":1326.6,"endTime":1335.66,"body":"He painted that in one day or so"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":1335.66,"endTime":1341.74,"body":"I've read, but with his"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":1335.66,"endTime":1341.74,"body":"facility, was so incredible that"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":1341.8,"endTime":1342.52,"body":"I believe it."},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":1343.54,"endTime":1346.48,"body":"I believe it"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":1343.54,"endTime":1346.48,"body":"too. I believe it. Yeah,"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":1348.16,"endTime":1350.62,"body":"everything looks"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":1348.16,"endTime":1350.62,"body":"fresh. Everything looks like you"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":1350.62,"endTime":1356.5,"body":"painted it in one shot. And"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":1350.62,"endTime":1356.5,"body":"yeah, a true slice of life too."},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":1356.68,"endTime":1359.14,"body":"Meanwhile, I'm spending four"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":1356.68,"endTime":1359.14,"body":"days on a tiny little bowl of"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":1359.14,"endTime":1364.14,"body":"grapes, but I'm doing the best I"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":1359.14,"endTime":1364.14,"body":"can. Yeah, yeah."},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":1364.14,"endTime":1365.82,"body":"Sometimes"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":1364.14,"endTime":1365.82,"body":"it's really funny, because when"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":1365.82,"endTime":1368.7,"body":"I when I hear all this, right?"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":1365.82,"endTime":1368.7,"body":"And it was in a time when they"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":1368.7,"endTime":1372.06,"body":"didn't have the luxury of"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":1368.7,"endTime":1372.06,"body":"photography that we have today,"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":1373.62,"endTime":1376.68,"body":"it blows my mind, and it"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":1373.62,"endTime":1376.68,"body":"sometimes makes it feel like"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":1376.68,"endTime":1380.36,"body":"we're almost in the Dark Ages."},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":1376.68,"endTime":1380.36,"body":"Because especially, you know, in"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":1380.36,"endTime":1387.02,"body":"the 20th century, so much of"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":1380.36,"endTime":1387.02,"body":"realism was almost lost. And you"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":1387.02,"endTime":1389.96,"body":"know, one of your teachers, you"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":1387.02,"endTime":1389.96,"body":"know, Frank Mason, he was"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":1389.96,"endTime":1393.56,"body":"definitely one of the torch"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":1389.96,"endTime":1393.56,"body":"bearers of so much information"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":1393.56,"endTime":1397.82,"body":"that, in my opinion, there's so"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":1393.56,"endTime":1397.82,"body":"much more that we probably lost"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":1397.82,"endTime":1401.5,"body":"or haven't, you know, been able"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":1397.82,"endTime":1401.5,"body":"to recover, and probably sitting"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":1401.5,"endTime":1405.88,"body":"somewhere, maybe in a book in a"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":1401.5,"endTime":1405.88,"body":"flea market in the middle of"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":1405.88,"endTime":1410.62,"body":"nowhere. And it just amazes me"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":1405.88,"endTime":1410.62,"body":"so much that he was able,"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":1411.16,"endTime":1414.16,"body":"yeah, he was one"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":1411.16,"endTime":1414.16,"body":"of a handful of people who kept"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":1414.16,"endTime":1419.02,"body":"the traditions alive, you know,"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":1414.16,"endTime":1419.02,"body":"through, I mean, the poor guy"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":1419.02,"endTime":1423.9,"body":"was trying to paint classical"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":1419.02,"endTime":1423.9,"body":"paintings the same time as"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":1423.96,"endTime":1428.52,"body":"Warhol and Jasper Johns and all"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":1423.96,"endTime":1428.52,"body":"these people were, you know,"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":1428.58,"endTime":1433.44,"body":"making millions and millions and"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":1428.58,"endTime":1433.44,"body":"millions and and he said, Well,"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":1433.44,"endTime":1436.8,"body":"you know, he said, when Peggy"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":1433.44,"endTime":1436.8,"body":"Guggenheim wanted her portrait"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":1436.8,"endTime":1440.18,"body":"painted, she came to me. She"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":1436.8,"endTime":1440.18,"body":"didn't, she didn't go to those"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":1440.18,"endTime":1440.72,"body":"guys,"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":1440.84,"endTime":1443.06,"body":"yep. So"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":1440.84,"endTime":1443.06,"body":"that's how it is. He"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":1443.06,"endTime":1446.42,"body":"said, you know,"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":1443.06,"endTime":1446.42,"body":"portrait painting is, is always"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":1446.42,"endTime":1451.22,"body":"something that that you can do"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":1446.42,"endTime":1451.22,"body":"to to make a living. And he"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":1451.22,"endTime":1453.44,"body":"said, as long as there are two"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":1451.22,"endTime":1453.44,"body":"people left on the face of the"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":1453.44,"endTime":1456.44,"body":"earth, one is going to want the"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":1453.44,"endTime":1456.44,"body":"other one to paint his portrait."},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":1457.52,"endTime":1460.96,"body":"Yeah. So he said that that's"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":1457.52,"endTime":1460.96,"body":"something that can sustain you."},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":1460.96,"endTime":1464.5,"body":"Meanwhile, you can, you can"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":1460.96,"endTime":1464.5,"body":"paint your, your Daniel and the"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":1464.5,"endTime":1468.76,"body":"lion's den and all the other"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":1464.5,"endTime":1468.76,"body":"things you want to paint. And"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":1468.76,"endTime":1474.04,"body":"but he was, he, really, he, he"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":1468.76,"endTime":1474.04,"body":"hung in there, you know, through"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":1474.04,"endTime":1478.72,"body":"this, this, you know, really"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":1474.04,"endTime":1478.72,"body":"modern period where everything,"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":1478.84,"endTime":1483.0,"body":"everything changed. And"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":1478.84,"endTime":1483.0,"body":"gradually, you know, he starts"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":1483.0,"endTime":1487.74,"body":"coming back in favor again. And,"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":1483.0,"endTime":1487.74,"body":"and he knew, he just, he said, I"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":1487.74,"endTime":1491.88,"body":"knew. But you just, you just"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":1487.74,"endTime":1491.88,"body":"wait for that, for the moment to"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":1491.88,"endTime":1495.42,"body":"come and, and you'll come back"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":1491.88,"endTime":1495.42,"body":"in favor. Said, it's like"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":1495.42,"endTime":1499.26,"body":"clothing. Don't throw anything"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":1495.42,"endTime":1499.26,"body":"out. Whatever you wore in the"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":1499.26,"endTime":1504.68,"body":"60s will. Back in the 90s, and"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":1499.26,"endTime":1504.68,"body":"you'll be ahead of the curve,"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":1504.68,"endTime":1507.08,"body":"because it will have already"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":1504.68,"endTime":1507.08,"body":"been broken in it won't look"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":1507.14,"endTime":1509.42,"body":"like you just bought it. It's"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":1507.14,"endTime":1509.42,"body":"great."},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":1509.9,"endTime":1512.72,"body":"Yeah, yeah."},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":1509.9,"endTime":1512.72,"body":"And, you know, I think it's very"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":1512.72,"endTime":1516.44,"body":"commendable to to have, you"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":1512.72,"endTime":1516.44,"body":"know, lived through the 20th"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":1516.44,"endTime":1519.8,"body":"century as a realist painter,"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":1516.44,"endTime":1519.8,"body":"because I feel like the the only"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":1519.8,"endTime":1525.88,"body":"realist painters who really did"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":1519.8,"endTime":1525.88,"body":"really well for themselves in"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":1525.88,"endTime":1529.6,"body":"terms of, you know, being more"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":1525.88,"endTime":1529.6,"body":"accepted. Were illustrators, in"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":1529.6,"endTime":1533.14,"body":"my opinion, who also were torch"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":1529.6,"endTime":1533.14,"body":"bearers in their own way, but"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":1533.14,"endTime":1539.44,"body":"the true to itself, classical"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":1533.14,"endTime":1539.44,"body":"painter, I find, struggled the"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":1539.44,"endTime":1542.4,"body":"most. They were definitely"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":1539.44,"endTime":1542.4,"body":"starving artists in the 20th"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":1542.4,"endTime":1546.66,"body":"century compared to, like you"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":1542.4,"endTime":1546.66,"body":"said, like the the Warhol people"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":1546.66,"endTime":1552.36,"body":"and the Picasso people and the"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":1546.66,"endTime":1552.36,"body":"more modern movement. So it's,"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":1552.42,"endTime":1553.74,"body":"it's not"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":1553.74,"endTime":1556.86,"body":"to disparage them,"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":1553.74,"endTime":1556.86,"body":"you know, of course, you know,"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":1556.86,"endTime":1562.16,"body":"I, I, you know, I owe a lot of"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":1556.86,"endTime":1562.16,"body":"my brush work to the abstract"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":1562.16,"endTime":1565.7,"body":"expressionists. Exactly, yes."},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":1562.16,"endTime":1565.7,"body":"And, you know, even though I'm"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":1565.76,"endTime":1570.74,"body":"I'm painting light and shade and"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":1565.76,"endTime":1570.74,"body":"space and all these other"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":1570.74,"endTime":1574.4,"body":"things. You know, I learned"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":1570.74,"endTime":1574.4,"body":"color from the impressionists. I"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":1574.4,"endTime":1578.06,"body":"mean, they had colors that"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":1574.4,"endTime":1578.06,"body":"Rubens didn't have. Imagine"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":1578.06,"endTime":1583.84,"body":"Rubens with cadmiums, oh, my"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":1578.06,"endTime":1583.84,"body":"god, yeah, or Titian, you know,"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":1583.84,"endTime":1591.22,"body":"with, with, with a low green, I"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":1583.84,"endTime":1591.22,"body":"mean, just it, you know, they"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":1591.22,"endTime":1594.82,"body":"just didn't have anything, they"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":1591.22,"endTime":1594.82,"body":"didn't have any yellows to paint"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":1594.82,"endTime":1601.5,"body":"a landscape, you Know. And,"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":1594.82,"endTime":1601.5,"body":"yeah, I mean, it's just"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":1601.5,"endTime":1604.62,"body":"astonishing. So, so there are"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":1601.5,"endTime":1604.62,"body":"still things to be learned from"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":1604.62,"endTime":1607.08,"body":"everybody. And I, you know, I"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":1604.62,"endTime":1607.08,"body":"appreciate every school of"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":1607.08,"endTime":1613.14,"body":"painting, but, but classical"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":1607.08,"endTime":1613.14,"body":"painting is what I love, yes,"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":1613.2,"endTime":1619.08,"body":"and yeah. You know, it's nice"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":1613.2,"endTime":1619.08,"body":"that Pavarotti wants to have"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":1619.44,"endTime":1624.44,"body":"concerts with, with whoever, all"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":1619.44,"endTime":1624.44,"body":"the pop singers that that come"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":1624.44,"endTime":1630.02,"body":"along, but, you know, put him on"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":1624.44,"endTime":1630.02,"body":"a stage with Morella Franey, and"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":1630.08,"endTime":1634.46,"body":"have them do BOEM, and my heart"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":1630.08,"endTime":1634.46,"body":"breaks, yeah, and it doesn't"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":1634.46,"endTime":1638.96,"body":"When, when, when he's singing"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":1634.46,"endTime":1638.96,"body":"with Bono or somebody, you know,"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":1639.14,"endTime":1644.32,"body":"I there's no thrill for me."},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":1639.14,"endTime":1644.32,"body":"Well, it's just the world I live"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":1644.32,"endTime":1647.56,"body":"in. It's just, it's just my"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":1644.32,"endTime":1647.56,"body":"choice, you know, my taste, my"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":1647.56,"endTime":1649.36,"body":"choice. Yes,"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":1649.6,"endTime":1651.7,"body":"yeah. And I"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":1649.6,"endTime":1651.7,"body":"completely agree with that. You"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":1651.7,"endTime":1655.0,"body":"know, I do find that everything"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":1651.7,"endTime":1655.0,"body":"has a right to exist, right?"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":1655.0,"endTime":1658.54,"body":"Everyone has a right to enjoy"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":1655.0,"endTime":1658.54,"body":"what they enjoy. And of course,"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":1658.54,"endTime":1662.7,"body":"for I'm referencing, of course,"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":1658.54,"endTime":1662.7,"body":"the starving artists in the 20th"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":1662.7,"endTime":1664.8,"body":"century, classical painter,"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":1662.7,"endTime":1664.8,"body":"because that's how it was,"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":1664.8,"endTime":1669.12,"body":"regardless of whether or not it"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":1664.8,"endTime":1669.12,"body":"was good or bad or etc, because"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":1669.12,"endTime":1672.06,"body":"that is exactly what happened."},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":1669.12,"endTime":1672.06,"body":"And also that, like I mentioned"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":1672.06,"endTime":1675.36,"body":"earlier, that loss of"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":1672.06,"endTime":1675.36,"body":"information, that loss of"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":1675.36,"endTime":1681.26,"body":"teaching, that happened it, it"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":1675.36,"endTime":1681.26,"body":"does feel like a bit of dark"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":1681.26,"endTime":1684.56,"body":"ages for classical painting"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":1681.26,"endTime":1684.56,"body":"itself, right? Of course, all"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":1684.56,"endTime":1689.6,"body":"painting is derivative, right?"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":1684.56,"endTime":1689.6,"body":"So all of these modernists, they"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":1689.6,"endTime":1692.66,"body":"were derivatives of classical"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":1689.6,"endTime":1692.66,"body":"painting as well. So there's"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":1692.66,"endTime":1697.34,"body":"value in it. Um, without, like"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":1692.66,"endTime":1697.34,"body":"you said, this disparaging other"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":1697.34,"endTime":1701.44,"body":"forms of art that can exist and"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":1697.34,"endTime":1701.44,"body":"will continue to exist, because"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":1701.44,"endTime":1706.42,"body":"that's how it is. And I actually"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":1701.44,"endTime":1706.42,"body":"wanted to ask you, because you"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":1706.42,"endTime":1711.46,"body":"have years of experience doing"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":1706.42,"endTime":1711.46,"body":"this and you've had a lot of"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":1711.46,"endTime":1717.16,"body":"time to create your process and"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":1711.46,"endTime":1717.16,"body":"recreate it many times over."},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":1717.22,"endTime":1721.68,"body":"What is your process like, from"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":1717.22,"endTime":1721.68,"body":"idea to finished painting."},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":1723.06,"endTime":1727.8,"body":"Well, that you"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":1723.06,"endTime":1727.8,"body":"know, because I have a"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":1727.8,"endTime":1733.86,"body":"philosophy of painting, it was a"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":1727.8,"endTime":1733.86,"body":"great help to me. There's, I"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":1733.86,"endTime":1738.24,"body":"think one of the problems that"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":1733.86,"endTime":1738.24,"body":"most artists have is they, they"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":1738.24,"endTime":1741.92,"body":"don't know what they want to"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":1738.24,"endTime":1741.92,"body":"paint, or how they want to paint"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":1741.92,"endTime":1746.84,"body":"it. And I knew from the time I"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":1741.92,"endTime":1746.84,"body":"saw the Prometheus how I wanted"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":1746.84,"endTime":1753.26,"body":"to paint. And I was fortunate"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":1746.84,"endTime":1753.26,"body":"that when I went to the Art"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":1753.26,"endTime":1760.3,"body":"Students League, I had these two"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":1753.26,"endTime":1760.3,"body":"great mentors. One was Robert"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":1760.3,"endTime":1765.88,"body":"Beverly Hale, I got to hear his"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":1760.3,"endTime":1765.88,"body":"his lectures, maybe just a"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":1766.12,"endTime":1771.16,"body":"couple of years before he passed"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":1766.12,"endTime":1771.16,"body":"away. But I, you know, I learned"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":1771.16,"endTime":1777.22,"body":"a tremendous amount, not just"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":1771.16,"endTime":1777.22,"body":"about anatomy, but well, you"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":1777.22,"endTime":1781.68,"body":"know, I don't have anything to"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":1777.22,"endTime":1781.68,"body":"say about marketing, but I will"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":1781.68,"endTime":1784.56,"body":"give some advice to young"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":1781.68,"endTime":1784.56,"body":"artists that are out there."},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":1785.04,"endTime":1788.64,"body":"There's only one book in the"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":1785.04,"endTime":1788.64,"body":"world that I recommend anybody,"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":1789.9,"endTime":1792.96,"body":"and it's the drawing lessons"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":1789.9,"endTime":1792.96,"body":"from the great masters by Robert"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":1792.96,"endTime":1799.92,"body":"Beverly Hale. And you know, I"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":1792.96,"endTime":1799.92,"body":"love it, because what he does."},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":1800.0,"endTime":1807.2,"body":"In that book is he teaches you"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":1800.0,"endTime":1807.2,"body":"how to think like an artist. And"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":1807.2,"endTime":1810.5,"body":"he would often say during his"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":1807.2,"endTime":1810.5,"body":"lectures, a lay person will see"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":1810.5,"endTime":1814.64,"body":"the, you know, this part of the"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":1810.5,"endTime":1814.64,"body":"anatomy this way. An artist will"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":1814.64,"endTime":1819.08,"body":"see it as as a form. He'll see"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":1814.64,"endTime":1819.08,"body":"it as an egg, or he'll see, you"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":1819.08,"endTime":1823.72,"body":"know, and he'll and he'll light"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":1819.08,"endTime":1823.72,"body":"it that way and and I love that"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":1823.72,"endTime":1830.32,"body":"idea of thinking like an artist."},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":1823.72,"endTime":1830.32,"body":"So so I had Robert Beverly Hale,"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":1830.32,"endTime":1838.54,"body":"and then shortly after that,"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":1830.32,"endTime":1838.54,"body":"Frank Mason and I kind of"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":1838.54,"endTime":1843.3,"body":"married the two together just by"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":1838.54,"endTime":1843.3,"body":"instinct. And what most people"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":1843.3,"endTime":1846.6,"body":"do is they want to learn to draw"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":1843.3,"endTime":1846.6,"body":"first until they feel like"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":1846.6,"endTime":1851.82,"body":"they've mastered drawing, and"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":1846.6,"endTime":1851.82,"body":"then move on to painting. And it"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":1852.06,"endTime":1857.64,"body":"probably works for some people,"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":1852.06,"endTime":1857.64,"body":"but Frank's teacher fellow named"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":1857.64,"endTime":1864.2,"body":"Frank Vincent Dumond, got very"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":1857.64,"endTime":1864.2,"body":"frustrated. And Frank told me"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":1864.2,"endTime":1866.54,"body":"these stories. You know, I used"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":1864.2,"endTime":1866.54,"body":"to work in his studio, so he"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":1866.54,"endTime":1869.72,"body":"would tell me these stories. And"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":1866.54,"endTime":1869.72,"body":"he said Dumont would get very"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":1869.72,"endTime":1873.32,"body":"frustrated, because people would"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":1869.72,"endTime":1873.32,"body":"be in George bridgeman's class,"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":1874.04,"endTime":1876.92,"body":"and they could draw like anybody"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":1874.04,"endTime":1876.92,"body":"said. They were master"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":1876.92,"endTime":1880.78,"body":"draftsmen. And then they come up"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":1876.92,"endTime":1880.78,"body":"to my class, and they put these"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":1880.78,"endTime":1885.4,"body":"beautiful drawings down, and"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":1880.78,"endTime":1885.4,"body":"they start to color them in. And"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":1885.58,"endTime":1889.9,"body":"he said, That's not painting,"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":1885.58,"endTime":1889.9,"body":"that's coloring and and he said,"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":1889.9,"endTime":1894.46,"body":"there's a difference. And he and"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":1889.9,"endTime":1894.46,"body":"he had to to walk them back"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":1894.46,"endTime":1898.48,"body":"before he could get them to go"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":1894.46,"endTime":1898.48,"body":"forward again. And just sort of"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":1898.48,"endTime":1903.42,"body":"by instinct, I I did not master"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":1898.48,"endTime":1903.42,"body":"drawing before I started"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":1903.42,"endTime":1907.2,"body":"painting, and I and I got to"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":1903.42,"endTime":1907.2,"body":"learn the two, and I got to"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":1907.2,"endTime":1913.56,"body":"marry the two together in a very"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":1907.2,"endTime":1913.56,"body":"organic way. So, so that was a"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":1913.56,"endTime":1920.16,"body":"great thing. And one of the"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":1913.56,"endTime":1920.16,"body":"other things about Frank Mason"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":1920.64,"endTime":1926.48,"body":"is that he not only taught"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":1920.64,"endTime":1926.48,"body":"painting, but he also taught the"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":1926.48,"endTime":1931.34,"body":"craft. So he would teach you how"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":1926.48,"endTime":1931.34,"body":"to prepare canvas, and he would"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":1931.34,"endTime":1934.28,"body":"teach you how to prepare"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":1931.34,"endTime":1934.28,"body":"mediums. And most people"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":1934.28,"endTime":1936.5,"body":"wouldn't do it. Most people"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":1934.28,"endTime":1936.5,"body":"would just, you know, they'd run"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":1936.5,"endTime":1939.44,"body":"down to the store, they'd buy a"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":1936.5,"endTime":1939.44,"body":"canvas, and they'd come up and"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":1939.44,"endTime":1946.24,"body":"start painting, and, you know, I"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":1939.44,"endTime":1946.24,"body":"I said, Well, imagine, imagine"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":1946.24,"endTime":1948.7,"body":"you're a violinist, and you're"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":1946.24,"endTime":1948.7,"body":"playing at Carnegie Hall. I"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":1949.3,"endTime":1951.82,"body":"said, you don't want to run down"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":1949.3,"endTime":1951.82,"body":"to the pawn shop just before"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":1951.82,"endTime":1955.78,"body":"your concert and grab a violin"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":1951.82,"endTime":1955.78,"body":"to play at Carnegie Hall. And if"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":1956.56,"endTime":1959.74,"body":"you're going to do a"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":1956.56,"endTime":1959.74,"body":"masterpiece, you should do it on"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":1959.8,"endTime":1965.4,"body":"a piece of canvas that is worthy"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":1959.8,"endTime":1965.4,"body":"of the masterpiece. And so, so"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":1965.4,"endTime":1969.9,"body":"frank taught me all that, and I"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":1965.4,"endTime":1969.9,"body":"worked in his studio. And, you"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":1969.9,"endTime":1972.42,"body":"know, at the league, we were all"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":1969.9,"endTime":1972.42,"body":"painting all the time. It was"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":1972.42,"endTime":1977.04,"body":"great. And but when I worked in"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":1972.42,"endTime":1977.04,"body":"his studio, I would help him"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":1977.04,"endTime":1981.5,"body":"prepare canvas, and I would help"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":1977.04,"endTime":1981.5,"body":"him frame things for shows and"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":1981.5,"endTime":1984.44,"body":"and create them. So I was"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":1981.5,"endTime":1984.44,"body":"learning how to do all of these"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":1984.44,"endTime":1989.18,"body":"different things. And I I even"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":1984.44,"endTime":1989.18,"body":"helped him when he had clients"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":1989.18,"endTime":1995.3,"body":"come to the studio. When I first"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":1989.18,"endTime":1995.3,"body":"started with started going down"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":1995.3,"endTime":1998.96,"body":"to his studio. He would paint"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":1995.3,"endTime":1998.96,"body":"upstairs. He lived upstairs on"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":1998.96,"endTime":2001.98,"body":"the top, and he had a beautiful"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":1998.96,"endTime":2001.98,"body":"big. He made his own skylight."},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2001.98,"endTime":2006.42,"body":"He punched a hole through the"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2001.98,"endTime":2006.42,"body":"ceiling and made a skylight. And"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2006.6,"endTime":2011.04,"body":"downstairs was the storage and"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2006.6,"endTime":2011.04,"body":"and where we did the framing,"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2011.04,"endTime":2014.16,"body":"and we made all the noise and"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2011.04,"endTime":2014.16,"body":"made all the sawdust and did all"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2014.16,"endTime":2019.2,"body":"the bad things, and, but he had"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2014.16,"endTime":2019.2,"body":"a lot of his paintings stacked"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2019.2,"endTime":2022.52,"body":"down there, and they were just"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2019.2,"endTime":2022.52,"body":"stacked against the wall. And"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2022.76,"endTime":2027.5,"body":"and my job, as as he was talking"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2022.76,"endTime":2027.5,"body":"to the client and telling them"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2027.5,"endTime":2032.18,"body":"stories and and being very"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2027.5,"endTime":2032.18,"body":"romantic, my job was to to move"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2032.18,"endTime":2035.84,"body":"the paintings that were in the"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2032.18,"endTime":2035.84,"body":"stacks so that the poor client"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2035.84,"endTime":2038.42,"body":"could see them, and they're"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2035.84,"endTime":2038.42,"body":"stacked. I thought, this is just"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2038.42,"endTime":2041.68,"body":"awful. And I said, this is a"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2038.42,"endTime":2041.68,"body":"terrible way to look at"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2041.68,"endTime":2046.54,"body":"paintings. And so a few years"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2041.68,"endTime":2046.54,"body":"later, I got together with a"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2046.54,"endTime":2048.76,"body":"friend of mine, who was a"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2046.54,"endTime":2048.76,"body":"brilliant Carpenter, and we"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2048.76,"endTime":2052.78,"body":"built big hanging racks. So now,"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2048.76,"endTime":2052.78,"body":"when you go into the studio,"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2053.2,"endTime":2058.24,"body":"there's a big wall. It's it's"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2053.2,"endTime":2058.24,"body":"maybe five by 10 feet, and it's"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2058.24,"endTime":2061.62,"body":"just pegboard stacked with"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2058.24,"endTime":2061.62,"body":"paintings, and you pull it out,"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2061.62,"endTime":2064.2,"body":"and then you look on the other"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2061.62,"endTime":2064.2,"body":"side, and it's, it's really"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2064.2,"endTime":2068.76,"body":"beautiful, yeah, but it's, but I"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2064.2,"endTime":2068.76,"body":"got to be with him while he was"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2068.76,"endTime":2076.8,"body":"with clients, and that was such"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2068.76,"endTime":2076.8,"body":"an education, you know, to to to"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2076.86,"endTime":2082.7,"body":"understand that, you know, Yes,"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2076.86,"endTime":2082.7,"body":"you're the painter, but you talk"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2082.7,"endTime":2087.56,"body":"about marketing and sales, and"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2082.7,"endTime":2087.56,"body":"how do you sell? And he lived on"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2087.56,"endTime":2091.22,"body":"the fourth floor of a building"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2087.56,"endTime":2091.22,"body":"in Little Italy with no"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2091.22,"endTime":2095.96,"body":"elevator, so you had to climb"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2091.22,"endTime":2095.96,"body":"stairs. There are 90 stairs, 89"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2096.2,"endTime":2100.12,"body":"stairs. I counted them once."},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2096.2,"endTime":2100.12,"body":"There are 89 stairs to get. It"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2100.12,"endTime":2104.56,"body":"to his studio. And Frank also"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2100.12,"endTime":2104.56,"body":"played the piano when he was"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2104.56,"endTime":2109.66,"body":"young. He was a child prodigy,"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2104.56,"endTime":2109.66,"body":"and he had to give up music"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2109.66,"endTime":2112.42,"body":"because he was dyslexic and he"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2109.66,"endTime":2112.42,"body":"had a hard time reading the"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2112.42,"endTime":2119.5,"body":"music, so he would mostly just,"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2112.42,"endTime":2119.5,"body":"you know, improvise. And so when"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2119.5,"endTime":2124.38,"body":"he had a client come. They would"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2119.5,"endTime":2124.38,"body":"ring the bell and and he would"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2124.38,"endTime":2128.22,"body":"send me downstairs to open the"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2124.38,"endTime":2128.22,"body":"door for them, and I'd go down"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2128.22,"endTime":2131.22,"body":"and meet them and greet them."},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2128.22,"endTime":2131.22,"body":"And we'd start climbing up the"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2131.22,"endTime":2135.42,"body":"stairs. And as we're climbing in"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2131.22,"endTime":2135.42,"body":"the distance, you hear this"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2135.42,"endTime":2141.74,"body":"piano playing, and you know. So"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2135.42,"endTime":2141.74,"body":"we go up, we're at the second"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2141.74,"endTime":2144.14,"body":"floor, and the and the music"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2141.74,"endTime":2144.14,"body":"gets a little bit louder and"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2144.14,"endTime":2148.64,"body":"louder and and finally we get to"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2144.14,"endTime":2148.64,"body":"the top, and I, I open the door"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2148.64,"endTime":2152.0,"body":"to the loft, and there's the"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2148.64,"endTime":2152.0,"body":"artist himself sitting at the"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2152.0,"endTime":2156.32,"body":"piano playing something that"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2152.0,"endTime":2156.32,"body":"sounds somewhere between drums"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2156.32,"endTime":2159.62,"body":"and rock on and off, and he's"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2156.32,"endTime":2159.62,"body":"just making it up as he goes"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2159.62,"endTime":2169.24,"body":"along. And his studio, he had"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2159.62,"endTime":2169.24,"body":"some old cast things that were"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2169.24,"endTime":2172.96,"body":"cast from the original. He had"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2169.24,"endTime":2172.96,"body":"the Venus de Milo cast from the"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2172.96,"endTime":2178.36,"body":"original, and that was in one"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2172.96,"endTime":2178.36,"body":"side of his studio. And on the"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2178.36,"endTime":2181.5,"body":"other side, he had the wing"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2178.36,"endTime":2181.5,"body":"victory from from the louver,"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2182.58,"endTime":2188.4,"body":"the big Nike, and that was"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2182.58,"endTime":2188.4,"body":"behind the piano. So you walk"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2188.4,"endTime":2192.96,"body":"into this loft, beautiful brick"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2188.4,"endTime":2192.96,"body":"walls, gorgeous paintings"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2192.96,"endTime":2196.68,"body":"everywhere, the artist sitting"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2192.96,"endTime":2196.68,"body":"at the piano, the winged victory"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2196.68,"endTime":2201.08,"body":"behind. And I could just see the"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2196.68,"endTime":2201.08,"body":"money flowing out of them. It's"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2201.08,"endTime":2205.22,"body":"like, I want to be a part of"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2201.08,"endTime":2205.22,"body":"this. And, and he created this,"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2205.22,"endTime":2211.4,"body":"this atmosphere where, you know,"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2205.22,"endTime":2211.4,"body":"he had completely brought the"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2211.4,"endTime":2217.46,"body":"client into his world. And, you"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2211.4,"endTime":2217.46,"body":"know, I, I just thought, what an"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2217.46,"endTime":2223.18,"body":"amazing thing. And, you know, it"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2217.46,"endTime":2223.18,"body":"brought somebody up once. This"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2223.18,"endTime":2227.44,"body":"is kind of a side story, but I"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2223.18,"endTime":2227.44,"body":"like it because it involves me."},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2229.78,"endTime":2234.16,"body":"So I brought the client up and"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2229.78,"endTime":2234.16,"body":"and next to the front door, he"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2234.16,"endTime":2241.38,"body":"had these tables, these drawers"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2234.16,"endTime":2241.38,"body":"for for drawings, and they were"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2241.38,"endTime":2245.76,"body":"stacked up quite high, about six"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2241.38,"endTime":2245.76,"body":"feet high. And on the top he had"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2245.76,"endTime":2250.92,"body":"a photograph of of Frank Dumont."},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2245.76,"endTime":2250.92,"body":"You know, he revered his teacher"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2251.64,"endTime":2257.82,"body":"and and so the clients there,"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2251.64,"endTime":2257.82,"body":"and we're standing by the door,"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2257.82,"endTime":2260.9,"body":"chatting and, and the client"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2257.82,"endTime":2260.9,"body":"sees the picture. He says, Oh,"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2260.9,"endTime":2265.34,"body":"is that your father? And Mason"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2260.9,"endTime":2265.34,"body":"says, No, that was my teacher."},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2265.34,"endTime":2268.34,"body":"That was Frank Vincent Dumont."},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2265.34,"endTime":2268.34,"body":"He was, he was my teacher. And"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2268.34,"endTime":2271.22,"body":"then, then he put his arm around"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2268.34,"endTime":2271.22,"body":"me and he said, and it was Tom's"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2271.22,"endTime":2276.38,"body":"grand teacher. Oh, so, so I've"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2271.22,"endTime":2276.38,"body":"always thought of Dumont as my"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2276.38,"endTime":2281.08,"body":"grand teacher, and and anybody"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2276.38,"endTime":2281.08,"body":"who studied with him was an aunt"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2281.08,"endTime":2288.04,"body":"or an uncle. So So you know,"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2281.08,"endTime":2288.04,"body":"uncle, Norman Rockwell and and"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2288.7,"endTime":2292.18,"body":"all these, these, these great"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2288.7,"endTime":2292.18,"body":"everybody studied with Dumont."},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2292.18,"endTime":2295.66,"body":"He taught for 50 years, yeah,"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2292.18,"endTime":2295.66,"body":"but literally. He taught for 59"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2295.9,"endTime":2301.14,"body":"years, literally. And poor Frank"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2295.9,"endTime":2301.14,"body":"was disappointed when he had to"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2301.14,"endTime":2304.56,"body":"stop teaching because he had"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2301.14,"endTime":2304.56,"body":"only taught for 57 he said I"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2304.56,"endTime":2307.44,"body":"wanted to teach as long as"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2304.56,"endTime":2307.44,"body":"Dumont, and I, I can't do it,"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2309.3,"endTime":2313.26,"body":"but wow. But that was, you know,"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2309.3,"endTime":2313.26,"body":"a great part of of what I"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2313.26,"endTime":2316.68,"body":"learned. So at the league, I was"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2313.26,"endTime":2316.68,"body":"learning to paint. I was"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2316.68,"endTime":2320.48,"body":"learning to be a painter, and"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2316.68,"endTime":2320.48,"body":"working from the model, and"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2320.48,"endTime":2323.78,"body":"doing all these great things."},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2320.48,"endTime":2323.78,"body":"And then when I was in Mason"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2323.78,"endTime":2327.44,"body":"studio, I was learning what it"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2323.78,"endTime":2327.44,"body":"was like to live the life of an"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2327.44,"endTime":2334.52,"body":"artist. And you know, the the"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2327.44,"endTime":2334.52,"body":"way Frank would teach was by"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2334.52,"endTime":2338.96,"body":"example. So when, when he was"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2334.52,"endTime":2338.96,"body":"giving critiques in the"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2338.96,"endTime":2342.88,"body":"classroom, he would just work on"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2338.96,"endTime":2342.88,"body":"your painting. He would, he"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2342.88,"endTime":2345.22,"body":"would take the brush, and there"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2342.88,"endTime":2345.22,"body":"was the model in front of you,"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2345.22,"endTime":2348.28,"body":"and he would use your palette"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2345.22,"endTime":2348.28,"body":"and and he would say, you know,"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2348.28,"endTime":2350.98,"body":"this is you need to go here, and"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2348.28,"endTime":2350.98,"body":"you need to go there and do"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2350.98,"endTime":2353.5,"body":"this. And then he would start"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2350.98,"endTime":2353.5,"body":"telling stories, and he would"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2353.5,"endTime":2359.02,"body":"continue painting. And you just"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2353.5,"endTime":2359.02,"body":"watched him paint. And I did the"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2359.02,"endTime":2363.3,"body":"same thing in his studio. I"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2359.02,"endTime":2363.3,"body":"would just watch him live. And"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2363.42,"endTime":2368.1,"body":"you know what it's like to to"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2363.42,"endTime":2368.1,"body":"live the life of an artist is"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2368.1,"endTime":2372.6,"body":"something that you don't get out"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2368.1,"endTime":2372.6,"body":"of art school. You know? What is"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2372.6,"endTime":2374.82,"body":"it like when you know, how do"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2372.6,"endTime":2374.82,"body":"you get up in the morning? How"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2374.82,"endTime":2377.82,"body":"do you get started? How do you"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2374.82,"endTime":2377.82,"body":"do this? How do you get clients?"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2377.82,"endTime":2382.52,"body":"How do you do all these"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2377.82,"endTime":2382.52,"body":"different things? And so I was"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2382.52,"endTime":2388.22,"body":"really incredibly lucky that I,"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2382.52,"endTime":2388.22,"body":"you know, I had these, these two"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2388.88,"endTime":2396.32,"body":"incredible mentors. And now at"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2388.88,"endTime":2396.32,"body":"some point, I left the class. I"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2396.32,"endTime":2399.14,"body":"kept working at Frank studio,"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2396.32,"endTime":2399.14,"body":"but I left the classroom and he"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2399.14,"endTime":2402.58,"body":"said, You're earning. Class"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2399.14,"endTime":2402.58,"body":"today, I said, Frank, I've got"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2402.58,"endTime":2406.96,"body":"to, you know, I have things I"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2402.58,"endTime":2406.96,"body":"want to paint. I said, I don't"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2406.96,"endTime":2410.68,"body":"want to just paint whoever the"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2406.96,"endTime":2410.68,"body":"office sends up to be the model"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2410.68,"endTime":2415.0,"body":"that week. I have things I want"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2410.68,"endTime":2415.0,"body":"to paint. And he said, great, he"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2415.0,"endTime":2419.14,"body":"got it. He said, that's, you"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2415.0,"endTime":2419.14,"body":"know, that's what he wants me to"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2419.14,"endTime":2422.46,"body":"do. He wants you to be an"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2419.14,"endTime":2422.46,"body":"artist. And he was, I think he"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2422.46,"endTime":2427.26,"body":"was kind of pleased that, that I"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2422.46,"endTime":2427.26,"body":"didn't want to just stay there"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2427.26,"endTime":2433.02,"body":"forever. And so then I, you"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2427.26,"endTime":2433.02,"body":"know, started my own journey."},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2433.02,"endTime":2438.24,"body":"And, and you start thinking, you"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2433.02,"endTime":2438.24,"body":"know, what do I want to paint?"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2438.78,"endTime":2442.64,"body":"How do I want to paint it? And,"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2438.78,"endTime":2442.64,"body":"you know, I, I was given all"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2442.64,"endTime":2447.14,"body":"these skills. Now, what do I do"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2442.64,"endTime":2447.14,"body":"with them? And I, you know, I"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2447.14,"endTime":2449.6,"body":"sort of love that time. Some of"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2447.14,"endTime":2449.6,"body":"my favorite paintings are from"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2449.6,"endTime":2453.92,"body":"that time. And I, you know, not"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2449.6,"endTime":2453.92,"body":"that they're the best paintings,"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2453.92,"endTime":2459.74,"body":"but, you know, I can remember"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2453.92,"endTime":2459.74,"body":"thinking I set up a still life,"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2460.4,"endTime":2467.08,"body":"and I said, How can I do a"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2460.4,"endTime":2467.08,"body":"painting of essentially dark"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2467.08,"endTime":2471.94,"body":"objects in rim light? You know,"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2467.08,"endTime":2471.94,"body":"it was a challenge for myself."},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2471.94,"endTime":2474.88,"body":"How do I do that without making"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2471.94,"endTime":2474.88,"body":"just this horrible dark"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2474.88,"endTime":2479.68,"body":"painting? And I always loved"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2474.88,"endTime":2479.68,"body":"that painting. And, you know, I"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2479.68,"endTime":2485.28,"body":"did it, and I learned something."},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2479.68,"endTime":2485.28,"body":"And so you're always learning"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2485.28,"endTime":2490.26,"body":"all the time as an artist, but"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2485.28,"endTime":2490.26,"body":"one of the things that Frank did"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2490.26,"endTime":2494.94,"body":"was the craft. So, so he taught"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2490.26,"endTime":2494.94,"body":"me. So this is how I do a"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2494.94,"endTime":2498.72,"body":"painting. I said, my painting"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2494.94,"endTime":2498.72,"body":"starts with, I pick out a piece"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2498.72,"endTime":2502.76,"body":"of linen. And you know, I have"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2498.72,"endTime":2502.76,"body":"some things that people gave me."},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2502.76,"endTime":2506.18,"body":"I have some leftover scraps from"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2502.76,"endTime":2506.18,"body":"Frank studio when he passed"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2506.18,"endTime":2511.28,"body":"away. And, you know, I have all"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2506.18,"endTime":2511.28,"body":"kinds of things. I have a linen"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2511.28,"endTime":2514.7,"body":"from Utrecht. It's just, you"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2511.28,"endTime":2514.7,"body":"know, your basic commercial"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2514.7,"endTime":2519.92,"body":"Utrecht art supplies linen,"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2514.7,"endTime":2519.92,"body":"which I like it. It. My brush"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2519.92,"endTime":2524.68,"body":"reacts very nicely to it. So I"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2519.92,"endTime":2524.68,"body":"find a piece of linen that you"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2524.68,"endTime":2528.82,"body":"like, and then I prepared it the"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2524.68,"endTime":2528.82,"body":"way the old masters did with the"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2528.82,"endTime":2532.6,"body":"rabbit skin glue and the white"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2528.82,"endTime":2532.6,"body":"lead. And fortunately, I live in"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2532.6,"endTime":2536.68,"body":"Vermont, so I have a bar and I"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2532.6,"endTime":2536.68,"body":"can do it outdoors. It's much"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2536.68,"endTime":2540.4,"body":"harder when you live in New York"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2536.68,"endTime":2540.4,"body":"City. You know you can't prepare"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2540.82,"endTime":2543.72,"body":"80 canvases with white lead and"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2540.82,"endTime":2543.72,"body":"leave them in your apartment"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2543.72,"endTime":2544.44,"body":"while you're sleeping."},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":2545.52,"endTime":2547.08,"body":"That's true."},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":2545.52,"endTime":2547.08,"body":"That's dangerous."},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2549.3,"endTime":2553.56,"body":"No, it's instant"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2549.3,"endTime":2553.56,"body":"lead poisoning. But I, you know,"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2553.56,"endTime":2556.74,"body":"I always found a way, when I did"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2553.56,"endTime":2556.74,"body":"live in New York, I always found"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2556.74,"endTime":2561.02,"body":"a way to get out of the city for"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2556.74,"endTime":2561.02,"body":"a month and rent a house upstate"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2561.02,"endTime":2564.5,"body":"somewhere, and prepare the"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2561.02,"endTime":2564.5,"body":"canvases while I was upstate and"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2564.5,"endTime":2569.42,"body":"do some landscape painting. And"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2564.5,"endTime":2569.42,"body":"you can always find a way, but"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2569.42,"endTime":2574.22,"body":"that's how I started, is"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2569.42,"endTime":2574.22,"body":"preparing my own canvas. And one"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2574.22,"endTime":2579.56,"body":"of the things that I love doing"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2574.22,"endTime":2579.56,"body":"is putting a ground on the"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2579.56,"endTime":2583.12,"body":"painting. And a lot of artists"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2579.56,"endTime":2583.12,"body":"like to paint on a white canvas."},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2583.12,"endTime":2587.5,"body":"A lot of people say you should"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2583.12,"endTime":2587.5,"body":"never do anything but work on a"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2587.5,"endTime":2593.68,"body":"white canvas. And if you go to"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2587.5,"endTime":2593.68,"body":"the the Tate in London, and you"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2593.68,"endTime":2596.26,"body":"look at the Turners, the Turners"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2593.68,"endTime":2596.26,"body":"were all started on white"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2596.26,"endTime":2605.82,"body":"grounds. And I happen to like a"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2596.26,"endTime":2605.82,"body":"toned ground, because a big part"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2605.82,"endTime":2613.2,"body":"of what I'm doing is is painting"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2605.82,"endTime":2613.2,"body":"luminosity. And in order to do"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2613.2,"endTime":2617.1,"body":"that on a white ground, you have"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2613.2,"endTime":2617.1,"body":"to cover up the white ground"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2617.1,"endTime":2620.78,"body":"with paint so that you can then"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2617.1,"endTime":2620.78,"body":"get to the luminosity when you"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2620.78,"endTime":2626.54,"body":"have a middle tone, you can"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2620.78,"endTime":2626.54,"body":"within the first minute or two,"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2626.54,"endTime":2628.88,"body":"I generally start out just by"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2626.54,"endTime":2628.88,"body":"finding the rhythm of my"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2628.88,"endTime":2631.76,"body":"composition and then going right"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2628.88,"endTime":2631.76,"body":"into the light and the"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2631.76,"endTime":2636.14,"body":"luminosity and and the canvas"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2631.76,"endTime":2636.14,"body":"starts to bloom right from the"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2636.14,"endTime":2639.2,"body":"beginning. And you're, you know,"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2636.14,"endTime":2639.2,"body":"you're not waiting till the end"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2639.2,"endTime":2641.5,"body":"to put the highlight on, you"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2639.2,"endTime":2641.5,"body":"know, I, if I want to put the"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2641.5,"endTime":2646.06,"body":"highlight on the first stroke, I"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2641.5,"endTime":2646.06,"body":"can do that. And so you can do"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2646.06,"endTime":2652.24,"body":"all of these really amazing"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2646.06,"endTime":2652.24,"body":"things. And when I moved to"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2652.24,"endTime":2658.66,"body":"Vermont, one of the things I"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2652.24,"endTime":2658.66,"body":"discovered was moonlight, you"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2658.66,"endTime":2662.4,"body":"know, I lived in New York City."},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2658.66,"endTime":2662.4,"body":"I lived in New York City for 20"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2662.4,"endTime":2665.52,"body":"years, and when I came to"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2662.4,"endTime":2665.52,"body":"Vermont, there's no street"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2665.52,"endTime":2671.58,"body":"lights, you know, I can't see my"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2665.52,"endTime":2671.58,"body":"neighbors houses unless I really"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2671.58,"endTime":2677.04,"body":"struggle, you know. And far off"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2671.58,"endTime":2677.04,"body":"in the distance, you know, about"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2677.28,"endTime":2683.96,"body":"maybe, maybe half a mile up the"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2677.28,"endTime":2683.96,"body":"road is the next house and and"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2684.02,"endTime":2688.88,"body":"when I take the dog out at"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2684.02,"endTime":2688.88,"body":"night, there's the moon. And I I"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2688.94,"endTime":2693.92,"body":"love painting the moon so much."},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2688.94,"endTime":2693.92,"body":"I did an entire show of just"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2693.92,"endTime":2699.08,"body":"Nocturnes. I did 21 Nocturnes as"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2693.92,"endTime":2699.08,"body":"a tribute to to Chopin. Chopin"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2699.08,"endTime":2703.48,"body":"wrote 21 knock. So I thought,"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2699.08,"endTime":2703.48,"body":"I'll paint 21 Nocturnes and do a"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2703.48,"endTime":2708.16,"body":"show. And it was great. I've"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2703.48,"endTime":2708.16,"body":"never seen anything like it. But"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2708.64,"endTime":2712.72,"body":"one of the things I learned as I"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2708.64,"endTime":2712.72,"body":"was doing that, when I would"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2713.26,"endTime":2716.98,"body":"start doing the nocturnes, I"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2713.26,"endTime":2716.98,"body":"generally start, I like to use"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2717.94,"endTime":2722.82,"body":"an umber ground and I just mix"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2717.94,"endTime":2722.82,"body":"it with some rabbit skin glue"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2723.06,"endTime":2727.62,"body":"after I after the lead is dry, I"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2723.06,"endTime":2727.62,"body":"sand a little bit so the glue"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2727.62,"endTime":2732.9,"body":"will grab it, and I just"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2727.62,"endTime":2732.9,"body":"sprinkle a little bit of dry"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2732.9,"endTime":2736.32,"body":"color on the canvas, and then"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2732.9,"endTime":2736.32,"body":"put the glue on and spread it"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2736.32,"endTime":2739.62,"body":"out, and it makes this beautiful"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2736.32,"endTime":2739.62,"body":"tone. It's the kind of thing you"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2739.62,"endTime":2744.08,"body":"can see in Rubens. Rubens used"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2739.62,"endTime":2744.08,"body":"to use a raw sienna, and you see"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2744.08,"endTime":2748.28,"body":"it in a lot of his studies. For"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2744.08,"endTime":2748.28,"body":"big paintings, you can see the"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2748.28,"endTime":2753.26,"body":"ground and I like umber. I like"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2748.28,"endTime":2753.26,"body":"something just almost a little"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2753.32,"endTime":2756.86,"body":"bit more neutral. The Sienna is"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2753.32,"endTime":2756.86,"body":"just a little too yellow for my"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2756.86,"endTime":2761.8,"body":"taste. And when I was doing in"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2756.86,"endTime":2761.8,"body":"the nocturnes, I couldn't get"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2761.8,"endTime":2765.82,"body":"them to sing. I was, you know,"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2761.8,"endTime":2765.82,"body":"I'd go out at night and I would"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2765.82,"endTime":2768.28,"body":"look and I would make mental"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2765.82,"endTime":2768.28,"body":"notes, and I'd come down the"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2768.28,"endTime":2770.74,"body":"next morning in my studio, and"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2768.28,"endTime":2770.74,"body":"then I would paint what I"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2770.74,"endTime":2776.56,"body":"remembered, and I couldn't get"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2770.74,"endTime":2776.56,"body":"it to sing. And I kept thinking,"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2776.56,"endTime":2780.78,"body":"Why? Why is this not worth see?"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2776.56,"endTime":2780.78,"body":"This is part of the beauty of"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2780.78,"endTime":2788.4,"body":"growing. And I realized that"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2780.78,"endTime":2788.4,"body":"when I'm doing my still lifes or"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2788.4,"endTime":2793.62,"body":"my portraits or some other"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2788.4,"endTime":2793.62,"body":"things, the liveliness is all in"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2793.62,"endTime":2797.7,"body":"the painting itself. It's all on"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2793.62,"endTime":2797.7,"body":"the top, all the richness of the"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2797.7,"endTime":2803.0,"body":"color, all the intensity,"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2797.7,"endTime":2803.0,"body":"everything is there on top. So"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2803.0,"endTime":2806.9,"body":"the neutral ground works great"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2803.0,"endTime":2806.9,"body":"because it's not competing. But"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2806.9,"endTime":2810.56,"body":"when I was doing the nocturnes,"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2806.9,"endTime":2810.56,"body":"I you know, you're using very"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2810.56,"endTime":2816.56,"body":"muted tones. It's dark blues and"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2810.56,"endTime":2816.56,"body":"and dark violets and dark greens"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2816.56,"endTime":2821.74,"body":"in the trees and everything is"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2816.56,"endTime":2821.74,"body":"very, very low in in in pitch,"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2821.8,"endTime":2829.24,"body":"and also in intensity. And the"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2821.8,"endTime":2829.24,"body":"whole painting sort of looked"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2829.24,"endTime":2831.88,"body":"dead. And then you had this,"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2829.24,"endTime":2831.88,"body":"this sort of whitish moon, it"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2831.88,"endTime":2837.94,"body":"just looked awful. And I said,"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2831.88,"endTime":2837.94,"body":"there's no liveliness. Said,"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2837.94,"endTime":2842.64,"body":"Where's, where's, you know, I"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2837.94,"endTime":2842.64,"body":"need to get liveliness. And just"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2843.06,"endTime":2851.28,"body":"on a whim, I decided to tone a"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2843.06,"endTime":2851.28,"body":"canvas with phthalo green, very"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2851.28,"endTime":2856.38,"body":"intense color, very, very"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2851.28,"endTime":2856.38,"body":"intense color. And and then I"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2856.38,"endTime":2859.62,"body":"started painting on that. And"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2856.38,"endTime":2859.62,"body":"when I started letting some of"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2859.62,"endTime":2865.82,"body":"that phthalo green come through"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2859.62,"endTime":2865.82,"body":"the darks of the trees. It just"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2865.82,"endTime":2869.24,"body":"worked like a charm. And first"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2865.82,"endTime":2869.24,"body":"one I did was a painting of"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2869.36,"endTime":2875.3,"body":"fireflies. And so it's just a"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2869.36,"endTime":2875.3,"body":"dark mass of of trees with just"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2875.3,"endTime":2880.9,"body":"a few little fireflies glowing"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2875.3,"endTime":2880.9,"body":"in front. But I painted the"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2880.9,"endTime":2884.02,"body":"trees in a way where I let some"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2880.9,"endTime":2884.02,"body":"of that green come through, and"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2884.02,"endTime":2890.44,"body":"not so much that that it looks"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2884.02,"endTime":2890.44,"body":"like an intense thalo green, but"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2890.44,"endTime":2895.96,"body":"just enough to make the dark"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2890.44,"endTime":2895.96,"body":"look lively. And it was great."},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2896.32,"endTime":2900.78,"body":"It was just great. So I so from"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2896.32,"endTime":2900.78,"body":"there, I, you know, I've painted"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2900.78,"endTime":2904.44,"body":"lots and lots and lots of of"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2900.78,"endTime":2904.44,"body":"nocturnes, and I've, I've tried"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2904.56,"endTime":2908.46,"body":"phthalo blue, and I've tried all"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2904.56,"endTime":2908.46,"body":"different kinds of things. But,"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2908.76,"endTime":2911.94,"body":"you know, for the Vermont"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2908.76,"endTime":2911.94,"body":"landscape, the phthalo green"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2911.94,"endTime":2920.36,"body":"works great. And so, so this is"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2911.94,"endTime":2920.36,"body":"my, my process is to do, prepare"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2920.36,"endTime":2926.12,"body":"the canvas and and put it, put"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2920.36,"endTime":2926.12,"body":"the ground on, and each of these"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2926.12,"endTime":2931.76,"body":"things is a part of the"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2926.12,"endTime":2931.76,"body":"painting. And I did a little"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2931.76,"endTime":2936.14,"body":"demo at at my gallery, and they"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2931.76,"endTime":2936.14,"body":"they filmed it, and they made a"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2936.14,"endTime":2941.02,"body":"little five minute clip of it."},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2936.14,"endTime":2941.02,"body":"And I noticed that as I was"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2941.38,"endTime":2946.3,"body":"talking and introducing what I"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2941.38,"endTime":2946.3,"body":"was doing to the audience, I was"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2946.3,"endTime":2951.34,"body":"also rubbing my hand on my"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2946.3,"endTime":2951.34,"body":"canvas, you know, unconsciously"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2951.34,"endTime":2954.76,"body":"in the background, I was just"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2951.34,"endTime":2954.76,"body":"making a connection to this"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2954.76,"endTime":2959.08,"body":"canvas. And I, I have done it in"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2954.76,"endTime":2959.08,"body":"my studio. I didn't realize I"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2959.08,"endTime":2963.84,"body":"was doing it in public, but I"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2959.08,"endTime":2963.84,"body":"was just making a connection so"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2963.84,"endTime":2967.44,"body":"that when I started the"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2963.84,"endTime":2967.44,"body":"painting, there was already a"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2967.44,"endTime":2971.88,"body":"connection between myself and"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2967.44,"endTime":2971.88,"body":"the canvas itself. And, you"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2971.88,"endTime":2977.28,"body":"know, I wasn't just pulling out"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2971.88,"endTime":2977.28,"body":"some thing that was on the shelf"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2977.28,"endTime":2981.5,"body":"and taking off the plastic and"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2977.28,"endTime":2981.5,"body":"starting painting, you know, I"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2981.5,"endTime":2985.1,"body":"had, I knew this canvas already."},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2981.5,"endTime":2985.1,"body":"I had raised it from being a raw"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2985.1,"endTime":2989.9,"body":"linen, you know, to adulthood,"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2985.1,"endTime":2989.9,"body":"where it was a canvas ready for"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2989.9,"endTime":2997.22,"body":"a painting. And I love that idea"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2989.9,"endTime":2997.22,"body":"of having the connection between"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2997.22,"endTime":3001.44,"body":"yourself and the painting, you"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":2997.22,"endTime":3001.44,"body":"know. And I often you. Uh, grind"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3001.44,"endTime":3006.36,"body":"I have, you see behind me,"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3001.44,"endTime":3006.36,"body":"there's tons of dry collar I"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3006.36,"endTime":3009.96,"body":"often grind my own paints so"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3006.36,"endTime":3009.96,"body":"that you have fresh paint every"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3009.96,"endTime":3014.34,"body":"day. And, you know, so it takes"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3009.96,"endTime":3014.34,"body":"a little while, but, you know,"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3014.52,"endTime":3020.9,"body":"it's a way to to meditate, and"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3014.52,"endTime":3020.9,"body":"it's a way to think about what"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3020.9,"endTime":3025.34,"body":"I'm going to be painting. And"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3020.9,"endTime":3025.34,"body":"you know, again, you're you're"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3025.34,"endTime":3029.9,"body":"becoming one with your color. So"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3025.34,"endTime":3029.9,"body":"everything becomes very organic."},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3029.9,"endTime":3032.78,"body":"You you have a connection to"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3029.9,"endTime":3032.78,"body":"your paints. You have a"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3032.78,"endTime":3036.8,"body":"connection to your canvas. And"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3032.78,"endTime":3036.8,"body":"you know, you're all working"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3036.8,"endTime":3042.1,"body":"together to create this, this"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3036.8,"endTime":3042.1,"body":"great masterpiece. And you know,"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3042.1,"endTime":3044.44,"body":"there are companies now that"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3042.1,"endTime":3044.44,"body":"make some very good paints."},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3045.34,"endTime":3049.12,"body":"There are some, some very good"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3045.34,"endTime":3049.12,"body":"there weren't when I was a"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3049.12,"endTime":3055.12,"body":"child. It was all commercial"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3049.12,"endTime":3055.12,"body":"paint for for Aunt Betty. And"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3055.36,"endTime":3058.54,"body":"not that I don't love Aunt"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3055.36,"endTime":3058.54,"body":"Betty, but, but she doesn't"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3058.54,"endTime":3063.18,"body":"really need hand ground paints."},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3058.54,"endTime":3063.18,"body":"But now they make some, some"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3063.18,"endTime":3068.64,"body":"very good quality paints. But,"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3063.18,"endTime":3068.64,"body":"you know, I have enough dry"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3068.64,"endTime":3075.9,"body":"collar here for probably four"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3068.64,"endTime":3075.9,"body":"lifetimes. So this is all before"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3075.9,"endTime":3083.96,"body":"I even start painting. And I did"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3075.9,"endTime":3083.96,"body":"a demo at the league they had"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3084.32,"endTime":3088.28,"body":"was, it was a very odd"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3084.32,"endTime":3088.28,"body":"experience. They they needed my"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3088.28,"endTime":3093.92,"body":"studio. I had a skylight studio"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3088.28,"endTime":3093.92,"body":"at the league, and they had"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3093.92,"endTime":3101.26,"body":"somebody from a department store"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3093.92,"endTime":3101.26,"body":"that wanted to do a photo shoot"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3101.26,"endTime":3106.96,"body":"in there for some ungodly"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3101.26,"endTime":3106.96,"body":"reason. And the director of the"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3106.96,"endTime":3109.18,"body":"league, who was a very good"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3106.96,"endTime":3109.18,"body":"friend of mine, came up and he"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3109.18,"endTime":3112.12,"body":"said, you know, they're offering"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3109.18,"endTime":3112.12,"body":"us so much money, I've got to"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3112.12,"endTime":3116.08,"body":"let them do this. And I said, I"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3112.12,"endTime":3116.08,"body":"need your studio for two days."},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3116.86,"endTime":3120.96,"body":"He said, can you take your your"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3116.86,"endTime":3120.96,"body":"class up to the museum and do a"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3120.96,"endTime":3125.16,"body":"talk or something. And I, I had"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3120.96,"endTime":3125.16,"body":"just been to the museum, like, a"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3125.16,"endTime":3132.6,"body":"month ago, there was a big show"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3125.16,"endTime":3132.6,"body":"of somebody, somebody from the"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3132.6,"endTime":3133.5,"body":"ash can school,"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3135.06,"endTime":3139.08,"body":"I think, bellows. And we had"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3135.06,"endTime":3139.08,"body":"gone, and we had looked at the"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3139.08,"endTime":3142.16,"body":"show. And I said, you know, Ira,"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3139.08,"endTime":3142.16,"body":"we, you know, we just went up. I"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3142.16,"endTime":3146.24,"body":"said, What if I do a demo in the"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3142.16,"endTime":3146.24,"body":"gallery? And I went down to the"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3146.24,"endTime":3149.42,"body":"league Gallery, and he said,"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3146.24,"endTime":3149.42,"body":"Great, we'll open it up to the"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3149.42,"endTime":3152.9,"body":"whole school. Anybody who wants"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3149.42,"endTime":3152.9,"body":"to come, can come? I said, Fine."},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3153.26,"endTime":3156.14,"body":"I said, Can I do it for two"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3153.26,"endTime":3156.14,"body":"days? I said, I've never done a"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3156.14,"endTime":3165.1,"body":"two day demo before. And he"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3156.14,"endTime":3165.1,"body":"said, absolutely. So. I set up,"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3165.1,"endTime":3172.0,"body":"and one of the students posed"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3165.1,"endTime":3172.0,"body":"for me, and I started talking,"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3172.06,"endTime":3176.8,"body":"and again, my hand is rubbing on"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3172.06,"endTime":3176.8,"body":"the canvas. And I start talking,"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3177.22,"endTime":3182.64,"body":"and I start explaining. I said,"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3177.22,"endTime":3182.64,"body":"before I start painting, you"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3182.64,"endTime":3189.96,"body":"need to know how I'm thinking."},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3182.64,"endTime":3189.96,"body":"And I said, when I before I"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3189.96,"endTime":3196.14,"body":"start my painting, I know I want"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3189.96,"endTime":3196.14,"body":"to do something with light and"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3196.14,"endTime":3202.16,"body":"space and form. I want to paint"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3196.14,"endTime":3202.16,"body":"something that is an illusion in"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3202.16,"endTime":3208.16,"body":"space. So in my mind, what I do"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3202.16,"endTime":3208.16,"body":"before I start painting, I"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3208.16,"endTime":3213.14,"body":"imagine my canvas as an empty"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3208.16,"endTime":3213.14,"body":"space. Said, most artists will"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3213.14,"endTime":3216.26,"body":"imagine it as a flat surface,"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3213.14,"endTime":3216.26,"body":"because it is a flat surface."},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3216.92,"endTime":3223.06,"body":"But I start, you know, with my"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3216.92,"endTime":3223.06,"body":"imagination before I even touch"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3223.06,"endTime":3227.32,"body":"the palette. So my canvas is an"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3223.06,"endTime":3227.32,"body":"empty space, and instead of"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3227.68,"endTime":3232.9,"body":"building on a flat surface, what"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3227.68,"endTime":3232.9,"body":"many, many artists will do, and"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3232.9,"endTime":3240.48,"body":"this comes out of a lot of the"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3232.9,"endTime":3240.48,"body":"commercial schools of painting,"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3241.02,"endTime":3245.76,"body":"and they do some beautiful work."},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3241.02,"endTime":3245.76,"body":"What they do is they start on a"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3245.76,"endTime":3252.0,"body":"flat surface, and they start to"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3245.76,"endTime":3252.0,"body":"build on the surface and and"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3252.0,"endTime":3256.8,"body":"they they start to create form"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3252.0,"endTime":3256.8,"body":"in that way. And then gradually,"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3256.8,"endTime":3261.32,"body":"as they start painting tonally,"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3256.8,"endTime":3261.32,"body":"they start going into space,"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3261.32,"endTime":3266.3,"body":"they start creating aerial"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3261.32,"endTime":3266.3,"body":"perspective. And I said, I I"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3266.3,"endTime":3271.58,"body":"don't do that. I I start out in"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3266.3,"endTime":3271.58,"body":"space, so I'm I'm doing exactly"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3271.58,"endTime":3275.24,"body":"the opposite of what many other"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3271.58,"endTime":3275.24,"body":"artists are doing. I'm starting"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3275.24,"endTime":3280.66,"body":"out in space, and I'm having my"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3275.24,"endTime":3280.66,"body":"figure emerge out of that space,"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3281.2,"endTime":3286.48,"body":"almost like Birth of Venus. You"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3281.2,"endTime":3286.48,"body":"know, there, there she is fully"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3286.48,"endTime":3291.16,"body":"formed, coming out of the sea,"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3286.48,"endTime":3291.16,"body":"and until she's presented before"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3291.16,"endTime":3297.76,"body":"you. And I kind of love that"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3291.16,"endTime":3297.76,"body":"idea. It just slowly emerges and"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3297.76,"endTime":3305.4,"body":"you. Uh, it for it's it works"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3297.76,"endTime":3305.4,"body":"great for me. You know, for"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3305.4,"endTime":3310.44,"body":"other people, they need a step"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3305.4,"endTime":3310.44,"body":"by step process. I don't have a"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3310.44,"endTime":3316.68,"body":"step by step process. I i Let"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3310.44,"endTime":3316.68,"body":"the figure emerge. Some people"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3317.22,"endTime":3322.46,"body":"need to have a step by step"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3317.22,"endTime":3322.46,"body":"process in order to get from"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3322.46,"endTime":3325.82,"body":"beginning to end. And that's"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3322.46,"endTime":3325.82,"body":"fine. You can do a beautiful"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3325.82,"endTime":3331.76,"body":"painting that way. It it's not"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3325.82,"endTime":3331.76,"body":"for me. So, you know, I"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3333.38,"endTime":3337.46,"body":"everybody has to find their own"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3333.38,"endTime":3337.46,"body":"way of how they create a"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3337.46,"endTime":3344.14,"body":"masterpiece, and so this is my"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3337.46,"endTime":3344.14,"body":"way. And where was I going with"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3344.14,"endTime":3349.54,"body":"this? I was moving from"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3344.14,"endTime":3349.54,"body":"beginning to end, and it just"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3349.6,"endTime":3355.12,"body":"and people say, when do you know"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3349.6,"endTime":3355.12,"body":"a painting is finished? So when"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3355.12,"endTime":3359.08,"body":"do you when do you know a"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3355.12,"endTime":3359.08,"body":"painting is finished? And my, my"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3359.2,"endTime":3362.16,"body":"general answer is, when you say"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3359.2,"endTime":3362.16,"body":"everything you've had to say"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3362.16,"endTime":3370.92,"body":"about the subject. If you say it"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3362.16,"endTime":3370.92,"body":"in one hour, then it's done. You"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3370.92,"endTime":3375.6,"body":"know, if it takes you a very,"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3370.92,"endTime":3375.6,"body":"very long time to express"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3375.6,"endTime":3379.38,"body":"everything you have to say about"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3375.6,"endTime":3379.38,"body":"that particular subject, then"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3379.38,"endTime":3383.12,"body":"that's how long it takes. And"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3379.38,"endTime":3383.12,"body":"you know, when you're doing"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3383.54,"endTime":3388.16,"body":"landscape painting, you can't"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3383.54,"endTime":3388.16,"body":"stay out there for six hours and"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3388.16,"endTime":3391.16,"body":"copy the landscape. It just"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3388.16,"endTime":3391.16,"body":"doesn't happen, especially"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3391.16,"endTime":3397.1,"body":"sunrise. You know, you've got"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3391.16,"endTime":3397.1,"body":"maybe 20 minutes before the sun"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3397.1,"endTime":3401.56,"body":"is up and you're in full morning"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3397.1,"endTime":3401.56,"body":"light. And you know, so there"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3401.56,"endTime":3406.6,"body":"are times when you you paint"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3401.56,"endTime":3406.6,"body":"fast by necessity, but there are"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3406.6,"endTime":3412.54,"body":"other times when you just paint"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3406.6,"endTime":3412.54,"body":"quickly. And I had one painting"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3413.26,"endTime":3418.9,"body":"many, many, many years ago, I"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3413.26,"endTime":3418.9,"body":"had bought an earthenware pot"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3419.68,"endTime":3429.3,"body":"with some braided something"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3419.68,"endTime":3429.3,"body":"around it. It's like braided"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3429.3,"endTime":3433.74,"body":"reeds or something, something"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3429.3,"endTime":3433.74,"body":"soft and and it's a it was just"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3433.74,"endTime":3436.56,"body":"a wonderful thing. I just wanted"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3433.74,"endTime":3436.56,"body":"to buy it, and I brought it"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3436.56,"endTime":3443.06,"body":"home, and I I wanted to paint"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3436.56,"endTime":3443.06,"body":"it, but I didn't have a painting"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3443.06,"endTime":3447.02,"body":"in mind. And I just happened to"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3443.06,"endTime":3447.02,"body":"have some peaches in the"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3447.02,"endTime":3452.0,"body":"kitchen, and I grabbed a white"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3447.02,"endTime":3452.0,"body":"cloth and and I and I threw them"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3452.0,"endTime":3455.78,"body":"together, and I did this"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3452.0,"endTime":3455.78,"body":"painting. And it happened to be"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3455.78,"endTime":3461.38,"body":"a time where everything was just"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3455.78,"endTime":3461.38,"body":"right, you know, the Canvas was"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3461.38,"endTime":3466.48,"body":"right. The paint was right. The"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3461.38,"endTime":3466.48,"body":"paint was fresh, the humidity"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3466.48,"endTime":3471.28,"body":"was just right. You know,"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3466.48,"endTime":3471.28,"body":"everything was there working"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3471.28,"endTime":3474.58,"body":"together. And it's only happened"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3471.28,"endTime":3474.58,"body":"to me three or four times in my"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3474.58,"endTime":3480.78,"body":"life where I'm painting with"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3474.58,"endTime":3480.78,"body":"such ease. Because everything"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3480.9,"endTime":3484.86,"body":"you know, I remember thinking in"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3480.9,"endTime":3484.86,"body":"the middle of the painting, I'm"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3484.86,"endTime":3487.68,"body":"just going to grab some weird"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3484.86,"endTime":3487.68,"body":"color and put it on here and see"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3487.68,"endTime":3490.86,"body":"if it works. Because everything"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3487.68,"endTime":3490.86,"body":"is working so beautifully. I"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3490.86,"endTime":3496.38,"body":"didn't do it but, but everything"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3490.86,"endTime":3496.38,"body":"just just flowed so beautifully"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3496.38,"endTime":3501.62,"body":"and so easily. I finished the"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3496.38,"endTime":3501.62,"body":"painting in four hours, and that"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3501.62,"endTime":3504.86,"body":"was all I needed. You know, I"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3501.62,"endTime":3504.86,"body":"may have come back the next day"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3504.86,"endTime":3510.08,"body":"and put a little glaze on a"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3504.86,"endTime":3510.08,"body":"peach or something, but, you"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3510.08,"endTime":3515.0,"body":"know, I was able to say what I"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3510.08,"endTime":3515.0,"body":"wanted to say easily. And"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3515.0,"endTime":3519.44,"body":"luckily, I did, because the next"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3515.0,"endTime":3519.44,"body":"day I started another painting,"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3520.16,"endTime":3523.66,"body":"and the humidity was different,"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3520.16,"endTime":3523.66,"body":"and some of the paint was a day"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3523.66,"endTime":3528.88,"body":"old. And, you know, everything"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3523.66,"endTime":3528.88,"body":"was different, and, and, and,"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3529.66,"endTime":3534.46,"body":"you know, I the it would have"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3529.66,"endTime":3534.46,"body":"made a different painting out of"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3534.46,"endTime":3535.48,"body":"what I had started"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":3536.86,"endTime":3539.08,"body":"at"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":3536.86,"endTime":3539.08,"body":"BoldBrush. We inspire artists to"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":3539.08,"endTime":3543.3,"body":"inspire the world, because"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":3539.08,"endTime":3543.3,"body":"creating art creates magic, and"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":3543.3,"endTime":3546.72,"body":"the world is currently in"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":3543.3,"endTime":3546.72,"body":"desperate need of magic."},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":3547.2,"endTime":3550.68,"body":"BoldBrush provides artists with"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":3547.2,"endTime":3550.68,"body":"free art marketing, creativity"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":3550.74,"endTime":3554.22,"body":"and business ideas and"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":3550.74,"endTime":3554.22,"body":"information. This show is an"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":3554.22,"endTime":3558.18,"body":"example. We also offer written"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":3554.22,"endTime":3558.18,"body":"resources, articles and a free"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":3558.18,"endTime":3562.46,"body":"monthly art contest open to all"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":3558.18,"endTime":3562.46,"body":"visual artists, we believe that"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":3562.46,"endTime":3566.24,"body":"fortune favors the bold brush."},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":3562.46,"endTime":3566.24,"body":"And if you believe that too,"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":3566.36,"endTime":3570.44,"body":"sign up completely"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":3566.36,"endTime":3570.44,"body":"free@boldbrushshow.com that's B,"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":3570.44,"endTime":3576.02,"body":"O, L, d, b, r, U, S, H show.com."},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":3570.44,"endTime":3576.02,"body":"The BoldBrush Show is sponsored"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":3576.02,"endTime":3579.68,"body":"by Faso. Now more than ever,"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":3576.02,"endTime":3579.68,"body":"it's crucial to have a website"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":3579.68,"endTime":3582.1,"body":"when you're an artist,"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":3579.68,"endTime":3582.1,"body":"especially if you want to be a"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":3582.1,"endTime":3585.1,"body":"professional in your career."},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":3582.1,"endTime":3585.1,"body":"Thankfully, with our special ink"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":3585.1,"endTime":3588.64,"body":"faso.com forward slash podcast,"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":3585.1,"endTime":3588.64,"body":"you can make that come true and"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":3588.64,"endTime":3592.18,"body":"also get over 50% off your first"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":3588.64,"endTime":3592.18,"body":"year on your artist website."},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":3592.42,"endTime":3596.2,"body":"Yes, that's basically the price"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":3592.42,"endTime":3596.2,"body":"of 12 lattes in one year, which"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":3596.2,"endTime":3599.26,"body":"I think is a really great deal,"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":3596.2,"endTime":3599.26,"body":"considering that you get sleek"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":3599.26,"endTime":3602.64,"body":"and beautiful. Website templates"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":3599.26,"endTime":3602.64,"body":"that are also mobile friendly, e"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":3602.64,"endTime":3605.76,"body":"commerce, print on demand in"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":3602.64,"endTime":3605.76,"body":"certain countries, as well as"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":3605.76,"endTime":3608.7,"body":"access to our marketing center"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":3605.76,"endTime":3608.7,"body":"that has our brand new art"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":3608.7,"endTime":3611.82,"body":"marketing calendar. And the art"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":3608.7,"endTime":3611.82,"body":"marketing calendar is something"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":3611.82,"endTime":3614.4,"body":"that you won't get with our"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":3611.82,"endTime":3614.4,"body":"competitor. The art marketing"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":3614.4,"endTime":3617.4,"body":"calendar gives you, day by day,"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":3614.4,"endTime":3617.4,"body":"step by step, guides on what you"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":3617.4,"endTime":3620.84,"body":"should be doing today right now,"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":3617.4,"endTime":3620.84,"body":"in order to get your artwork out"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":3620.84,"endTime":3623.6,"body":"there and seeing by the right"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":3620.84,"endTime":3623.6,"body":"eyes so that you can make more"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":3623.6,"endTime":3626.96,"body":"sales this year. So if you want"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":3623.6,"endTime":3626.96,"body":"to change your life and actually"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":3626.96,"endTime":3629.9,"body":"meet your sales goal this year,"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":3626.96,"endTime":3629.9,"body":"then start now by going to our"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":3629.9,"endTime":3634.64,"body":"special link, faso.com forward"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":3629.9,"endTime":3634.64,"body":"slash podcast. That's faso.com"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":3635.42,"endTime":3637.52,"body":"forward slash podcast, yeah,"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3638.42,"endTime":3642.64,"body":"you know I, I like"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3638.42,"endTime":3642.64,"body":"the idea. So kind of you, let me"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3642.64,"endTime":3644.26,"body":"just ramble on like this. Oh,"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":3644.32,"endTime":3648.88,"body":"I'm but you"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":3644.32,"endTime":3648.88,"body":"are. You are leading this little"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":3648.88,"endTime":3649.96,"body":"boat. You are the navigator,"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3650.14,"endTime":3655.06,"body":"but, but I"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3650.14,"endTime":3655.06,"body":"remember a student once talking"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3655.06,"endTime":3663.48,"body":"to me, and she was painting in"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3655.06,"endTime":3663.48,"body":"the back of the room, and she"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3663.48,"endTime":3666.42,"body":"had this same problem. She she"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3663.48,"endTime":3666.42,"body":"started the painting on Monday"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3666.42,"endTime":3670.2,"body":"and Tuesday. She said everything"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3666.42,"endTime":3670.2,"body":"was different, and I came in on"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3670.2,"endTime":3672.96,"body":"Thursday. I used to teach on"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3670.2,"endTime":3672.96,"body":"Monday and Thursday, and the"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3672.96,"endTime":3680.24,"body":"students would paint all five"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3672.96,"endTime":3680.24,"body":"days. And so she said, Every day"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3680.24,"endTime":3684.08,"body":"when I came in, everything"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3680.24,"endTime":3684.08,"body":"looked different, and the paint"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3684.08,"endTime":3686.78,"body":"felt different. Everything was"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3684.08,"endTime":3686.78,"body":"different. How do you deal with"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3686.78,"endTime":3691.88,"body":"that? And I said, that's such a"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3686.78,"endTime":3691.88,"body":"brilliant observation. And I"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3691.88,"endTime":3696.02,"body":"said, everything is different. I"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3691.88,"endTime":3696.02,"body":"said, when you were painting on"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3696.02,"endTime":3701.56,"body":"Monday, and you put everything"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3696.02,"endTime":3701.56,"body":"away, you went out and you had"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3701.56,"endTime":3705.34,"body":"dinner with somebody, you had"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3701.56,"endTime":3705.34,"body":"conversations. You did this, and"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3705.34,"endTime":3709.12,"body":"you did that. The model had a"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3705.34,"endTime":3709.12,"body":"life. They went out and they did"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3709.12,"endTime":3714.7,"body":"things. And each time you do"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3709.12,"endTime":3714.7,"body":"that, you're a little bit"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3714.7,"endTime":3718.78,"body":"changed by by your experience."},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3714.7,"endTime":3718.78,"body":"You know, every moment of every"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3718.78,"endTime":3722.34,"body":"day you're you're a little bit"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3718.78,"endTime":3722.34,"body":"different. So by the time you"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3722.34,"endTime":3726.54,"body":"came in on Tuesday, you had had"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3722.34,"endTime":3726.54,"body":"different experiences and and"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3726.54,"endTime":3729.3,"body":"you were happier or sad because"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3726.54,"endTime":3729.3,"body":"of what had happened, and the"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3729.3,"endTime":3733.2,"body":"model was different because of"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3729.3,"endTime":3733.2,"body":"what they had gone through, and"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3733.2,"endTime":3740.24,"body":"the air was different because"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3733.2,"endTime":3740.24,"body":"weather changes. And I said the"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3740.24,"endTime":3744.26,"body":"light might have been different"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3740.24,"endTime":3744.26,"body":"if it's a cloudy even though you"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3744.26,"endTime":3749.06,"body":"have a skylight, if it's a"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3744.26,"endTime":3749.06,"body":"cloudy day or a clear day, the"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3749.06,"endTime":3754.58,"body":"quality of the light is"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3749.06,"endTime":3754.58,"body":"different. And I said this, you"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3754.58,"endTime":3760.72,"body":"know, such a profound thing to"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3754.58,"endTime":3760.72,"body":"know about your painting. And I"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3760.72,"endTime":3764.8,"body":"said, you you have to make a"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3760.72,"endTime":3764.8,"body":"decision. See, this is why you"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3764.8,"endTime":3768.52,"body":"don't copy what you're looking"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3764.8,"endTime":3768.52,"body":"at. Is because everything is"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3768.52,"endTime":3775.9,"body":"different. And I said, when you"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3768.52,"endTime":3775.9,"body":"start a painting, you have to"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3775.9,"endTime":3780.96,"body":"have some vision of what you"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3775.9,"endTime":3780.96,"body":"want it to be at the end. And I"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3780.96,"endTime":3783.9,"body":"said, when I'm painting a still"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3780.96,"endTime":3783.9,"body":"life and I have fruit in it, I"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3783.9,"endTime":3788.82,"body":"have some grapes, and the first"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3783.9,"endTime":3788.82,"body":"day you set it up, and the"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3788.82,"endTime":3791.88,"body":"grapes are all juicy and they're"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3788.82,"endTime":3791.88,"body":"fresh and they're new, and the"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3792.24,"endTime":3795.3,"body":"highlights are crisp and they're"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3792.24,"endTime":3795.3,"body":"they almost have some moisture"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3795.3,"endTime":3800.48,"body":"to them. Each day that grape"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3795.3,"endTime":3800.48,"body":"dies a little bit, and it dies a"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3800.48,"endTime":3803.42,"body":"little bit, and by the third or"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3800.48,"endTime":3803.42,"body":"fourth day you're working on"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3803.42,"endTime":3808.76,"body":"your still life, the highlights"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3803.42,"endTime":3808.76,"body":"are quite dull and everything is"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3808.76,"endTime":3812.72,"body":"just a little sadder. And I"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3808.76,"endTime":3812.72,"body":"said, if you just copy it,"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3812.72,"endTime":3816.44,"body":"you're going to end up with a"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3812.72,"endTime":3816.44,"body":"very sad still life every time."},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3816.8,"endTime":3820.78,"body":"Because these things are, you"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3816.8,"endTime":3820.78,"body":"know, unless you're Morandi and"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3820.9,"endTime":3824.26,"body":"you're just painting jugs and"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3820.9,"endTime":3824.26,"body":"things that don't die, but if"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3824.26,"endTime":3827.92,"body":"you're painting anything that's"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3824.26,"endTime":3827.92,"body":"alive, you know you're trying to"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3827.92,"endTime":3834.4,"body":"paint flowers. I tried doing"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3827.92,"endTime":3834.4,"body":"tulips once, and I set them up"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3834.4,"endTime":3837.28,"body":"the first day, and there they"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3834.4,"endTime":3837.28,"body":"were, all beautiful and moving."},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3837.7,"endTime":3841.14,"body":"And I came back the next day,"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3837.7,"endTime":3841.14,"body":"the entire still life had turned"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3841.2,"endTime":3846.24,"body":"to my window. All, every one of"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3841.2,"endTime":3846.24,"body":"the flowers had turned as if"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3846.24,"endTime":3852.06,"body":"they were all turning their head"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3846.24,"endTime":3852.06,"body":"to get to the light and what I"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3852.06,"endTime":3855.78,"body":"had to go back to where I was"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3852.06,"endTime":3855.78,"body":"the first day. So I so when I'm"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3855.78,"endTime":3858.12,"body":"doing that, I said, when you're"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3855.78,"endTime":3858.12,"body":"painting, you have to remember"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3858.12,"endTime":3860.96,"body":"what it is you want to paint."},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3858.12,"endTime":3860.96,"body":"And if you were excited the"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3860.96,"endTime":3864.44,"body":"first day, paint the grapes the"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3860.96,"endTime":3864.44,"body":"way they were. The first day,"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3864.74,"endTime":3868.22,"body":"don't paint them the way they"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3864.74,"endTime":3868.22,"body":"are. The fourth day. And you"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3868.22,"endTime":3873.2,"body":"know, you'll you'll find some"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3868.22,"endTime":3873.2,"body":"things will happen. And I did"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3873.2,"endTime":3878.9,"body":"another painting with some"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3873.2,"endTime":3878.9,"body":"nasturtium. And nasturtium is"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3878.9,"endTime":3882.76,"body":"not the kind of thing you"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3878.9,"endTime":3882.76,"body":"normally put in a vase. But I,"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3882.94,"endTime":3886.96,"body":"you know, we grow a lot. We have"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3882.94,"endTime":3886.96,"body":"a lot of land here, so we plant"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3886.96,"endTime":3891.28,"body":"some flowers and fruit and"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3886.96,"endTime":3891.28,"body":"various things and and I, I"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3891.64,"endTime":3895.24,"body":"clipped off some nasturtium, and"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3891.64,"endTime":3895.24,"body":"they were beautiful, flowing,"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3895.3,"endTime":3899.32,"body":"wonderful, fabulous. They also"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3895.3,"endTime":3899.32,"body":"go towards the light. But each"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3899.32,"endTime":3904.38,"body":"of the flowers. Hours only lives"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3899.32,"endTime":3904.38,"body":"for one day. So even if it's"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3904.38,"endTime":3907.86,"body":"turning toward the light, that"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3904.38,"endTime":3907.86,"body":"one's going to die and another"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3907.86,"endTime":3912.84,"body":"one will open up. And so as I"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3907.86,"endTime":3912.84,"body":"was painting, there would be a"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3912.84,"endTime":3916.92,"body":"beautiful red nasturtium here on"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3912.84,"endTime":3916.92,"body":"one day. The next day, it would"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3916.92,"endTime":3920.36,"body":"be gone, and a beautiful golden"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3916.92,"endTime":3920.36,"body":"nasturtium would be open another"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3920.36,"endTime":3925.64,"body":"place, and the whole still life"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3920.36,"endTime":3925.64,"body":"kept evolving as I was painting,"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3926.18,"endTime":3930.92,"body":"and it was the most wonderful"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3926.18,"endTime":3930.92,"body":"thing in the world. And so I, I,"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3931.28,"endTime":3935.54,"body":"you know, I just followed it"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3931.28,"endTime":3935.54,"body":"where, where it was going, and"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3935.54,"endTime":3941.08,"body":"it turned out to be a wonderful"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3935.54,"endTime":3941.08,"body":"painting. And so I, I love that"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3941.08,"endTime":3945.76,"body":"kind of thing. I did some"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3941.08,"endTime":3945.76,"body":"restoration in the morning when"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3945.76,"endTime":3950.02,"body":"I was a student, I worked for a"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3945.76,"endTime":3950.02,"body":"restorer. My job was to do the"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3950.02,"endTime":3954.4,"body":"in painting where paint had"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3950.02,"endTime":3954.4,"body":"flaked off, and there was a"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3954.4,"endTime":3963.84,"body":"painting once of irises, purple"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3954.4,"endTime":3963.84,"body":"irises, small painting, not very"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3963.84,"endTime":3969.36,"body":"big. And as I was looking at it,"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3963.84,"endTime":3969.36,"body":"I realized the artist only had"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3969.36,"endTime":3974.58,"body":"one flower, and he painted it at"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3969.36,"endTime":3974.58,"body":"each different stage of its"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3974.58,"endTime":3979.62,"body":"development, each day, over five"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3974.58,"endTime":3979.62,"body":"days. And, you know, because I"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3979.62,"endTime":3983.48,"body":"could see where he was painting"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3979.62,"endTime":3983.48,"body":"over things and and so there he"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3983.48,"endTime":3987.32,"body":"was. He was sitting in a studio"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3983.48,"endTime":3987.32,"body":"with one little flower, and he"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3987.32,"endTime":3990.38,"body":"made this beautiful little"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3987.32,"endTime":3990.38,"body":"bouquet out of it. And it was"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3991.04,"endTime":3995.48,"body":"beautiful because it was the"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3991.04,"endTime":3995.48,"body":"entire story from from, you"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3995.48,"endTime":3999.68,"body":"know, being a little bud, to"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3995.48,"endTime":3999.68,"body":"opening up and developing and"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3999.68,"endTime":4003.96,"body":"becoming this, this full flower."},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":3999.68,"endTime":4003.96,"body":"It was a whole life story of of"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4004.08,"endTime":4009.6,"body":"this flower. And it was, it was"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4004.08,"endTime":4009.6,"body":"a beautiful thing. So, so, this"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4009.6,"endTime":4014.46,"body":"is my process. I, you know, I"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4009.6,"endTime":4014.46,"body":"develop things and I let them"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4015.3,"endTime":4021.74,"body":"open up. Oh, so I was, I started"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4015.3,"endTime":4021.74,"body":"out with the demo I was doing at"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4021.74,"endTime":4026.6,"body":"the league. So, so I started out"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4021.74,"endTime":4026.6,"body":"on the first day, and I'm I'm"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4026.6,"endTime":4032.6,"body":"explaining how I start, and I"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4026.6,"endTime":4032.6,"body":"start talking about the Canvas"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4032.6,"endTime":4037.64,"body":"being an empty space, and I had"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4032.6,"endTime":4037.64,"body":"the model leave, and I turned"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4037.64,"endTime":4040.84,"body":"out it was downstairs, so we had"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4037.64,"endTime":4040.84,"body":"to use an electric light. I"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4040.84,"endTime":4046.0,"body":"turned the light off, and I"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4040.84,"endTime":4046.0,"body":"said, this is how your painting"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4046.72,"endTime":4050.5,"body":"develops. This is how your"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4046.72,"endTime":4050.5,"body":"subject matter develops. Said,"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4050.5,"endTime":4054.04,"body":"first you have this empty space."},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4050.5,"endTime":4054.04,"body":"I said, it's very much like the"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4054.04,"endTime":4058.9,"body":"creation story in the Bible. You"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4054.04,"endTime":4058.9,"body":"start out with a void. You start"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4058.9,"endTime":4064.2,"body":"out with nothing, and it's not a"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4058.9,"endTime":4064.2,"body":"flat void, it's, it's, it's a"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4064.2,"endTime":4067.92,"body":"void, it's an empty space. So if"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4064.2,"endTime":4067.92,"body":"you think of your canvas as this"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4067.98,"endTime":4073.74,"body":"big empty space, and then God"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4067.98,"endTime":4073.74,"body":"separates the light in the"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4073.74,"endTime":4077.34,"body":"darkness, and you turn the light"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4073.74,"endTime":4077.34,"body":"on, and there's light flowing"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4077.34,"endTime":4082.94,"body":"into that space. And I said, now"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4077.34,"endTime":4082.94,"body":"you have light and space. And"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4082.94,"endTime":4085.7,"body":"then I had the model come. I"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4082.94,"endTime":4085.7,"body":"said, God created the animals"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4085.7,"endTime":4089.9,"body":"and the trees. And I had the"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4085.7,"endTime":4089.9,"body":"model take the model stand. And"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4089.96,"endTime":4094.34,"body":"I said, this is what happens"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4089.96,"endTime":4094.34,"body":"those light, you know, as the"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4094.34,"endTime":4100.24,"body":"model invades that space, it"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4094.34,"endTime":4100.24,"body":"occupies that space and moves"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4100.24,"endTime":4103.78,"body":"all the molecules around, and"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4100.24,"endTime":4103.78,"body":"the light falls on the model"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4104.2,"endTime":4106.42,"body":"that this is what you're"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4104.2,"endTime":4106.42,"body":"painting. You're painting light"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4106.96,"endTime":4110.8,"body":"on a form in space. You're"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4106.96,"endTime":4110.8,"body":"painting those three things."},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4110.8,"endTime":4114.52,"body":"You're not just painting, you"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4110.8,"endTime":4114.52,"body":"know, Walter's portrait. You're"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4114.52,"endTime":4118.78,"body":"painting these, these things"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4114.52,"endTime":4118.78,"body":"that happen. And then I said, I"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4118.78,"endTime":4122.52,"body":"said, Here, here's the best"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4118.78,"endTime":4122.52,"body":"part, I said, the last day of"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4122.52,"endTime":4129.54,"body":"the creation story. God takes"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4122.52,"endTime":4129.54,"body":"dirt from the earth, and He"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4129.54,"endTime":4133.98,"body":"breathes into it, and he"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4129.54,"endTime":4133.98,"body":"breathes life into it. Said,"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4134.28,"endTime":4139.08,"body":"what we're painting with is dirt"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4134.28,"endTime":4139.08,"body":"from the earth. All of our"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4139.08,"endTime":4142.22,"body":"pigments are dirt from the"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4139.08,"endTime":4142.22,"body":"earth, and we mix a little bit"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4142.22,"endTime":4145.88,"body":"of oil into it. So our job is to"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4142.22,"endTime":4145.88,"body":"breathe life into it on the"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4145.88,"endTime":4152.6,"body":"canvas. And you know this, this"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4145.88,"endTime":4152.6,"body":"is what our our mission is, is"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4152.6,"endTime":4155.78,"body":"to take this dirt from the"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4152.6,"endTime":4155.78,"body":"earth, and so every day that you"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4155.78,"endTime":4161.68,"body":"paint, you're recreating the"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4155.78,"endTime":4161.68,"body":"creation story. And I said, if"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4161.68,"endTime":4165.82,"body":"you can breathe life into it on"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4161.68,"endTime":4165.82,"body":"the canvas, people will react."},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4166.12,"endTime":4169.6,"body":"If it's a portrait, they'll"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4166.12,"endTime":4169.6,"body":"start talking to it. You know,"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4169.6,"endTime":4172.72,"body":"if it's if it's a still life,"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4169.6,"endTime":4172.72,"body":"they're going to want to pick it"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4172.72,"endTime":4175.78,"body":"up and eat it. If it's a"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4172.72,"endTime":4175.78,"body":"landscape, they're going to want"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4175.78,"endTime":4181.32,"body":"to walk through it. And it will"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4175.78,"endTime":4181.32,"body":"be something that that the"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4181.32,"endTime":4185.16,"body":"viewer can have a connection to."},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4181.32,"endTime":4185.16,"body":"So I was talking like this for"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4185.16,"endTime":4191.22,"body":"45 minutes before I ever touched"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4185.16,"endTime":4191.22,"body":"the campus. And they sat there"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4191.22,"endTime":4194.28,"body":"listening. And there must have"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4191.22,"endTime":4194.28,"body":"been 200 students, and some of"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4194.28,"endTime":4196.8,"body":"them were from my class, but"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4194.28,"endTime":4196.8,"body":"some were from other parts of"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4196.8,"endTime":4200.42,"body":"the league and and, you know, I"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4196.8,"endTime":4200.42,"body":"started just after. Lunch. So I"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4200.42,"endTime":4202.58,"body":"thought, well, they'll, they'll"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4200.42,"endTime":4202.58,"body":"listen to five minutes, and"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4202.58,"endTime":4205.22,"body":"they'll go back to their their"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4202.58,"endTime":4205.22,"body":"and they didn't. They all sat"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4205.22,"endTime":4205.88,"body":"and watched."},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4207.14,"endTime":4209.78,"body":"And then I started working on"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4207.14,"endTime":4209.78,"body":"the portrait and letting it"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4209.78,"endTime":4215.12,"body":"evolve and and then I came back"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4209.78,"endTime":4215.12,"body":"the next day and I said, you"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4215.12,"endTime":4218.84,"body":"know, this is how you develop a"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4215.12,"endTime":4218.84,"body":"painting now, now that you have,"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4219.44,"endTime":4222.4,"body":"you know, a sense of the"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4219.44,"endTime":4222.4,"body":"character. This is how you"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4222.4,"endTime":4225.64,"body":"develop it. And spent the second"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4222.4,"endTime":4225.64,"body":"day developing the character."},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4226.36,"endTime":4232.54,"body":"And I, you know, I was just sort"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4226.36,"endTime":4232.54,"body":"of lost in the painting. And at"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4232.54,"endTime":4234.82,"body":"some point came up, somebody"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4232.54,"endTime":4234.82,"body":"came up to me and said, you"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4234.82,"endTime":4238.3,"body":"know, you need to stop, because"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4234.82,"endTime":4238.3,"body":"we have to do the evening class."},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4238.3,"endTime":4242.82,"body":"We have to set up the chairs for"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4238.3,"endTime":4242.82,"body":"a lecture tonight. And and so,"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4242.88,"endTime":4245.94,"body":"so I stopped painting, and I"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4242.88,"endTime":4245.94,"body":"turned around, and I got this"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4245.94,"endTime":4250.56,"body":"tremendous ovation. And all the"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4245.94,"endTime":4250.56,"body":"students had stayed. They had"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4250.56,"endTime":4255.12,"body":"given up two days of their own"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4250.56,"endTime":4255.12,"body":"painting to watch this. And you"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4255.12,"endTime":4259.74,"body":"know, it was, it was a joy to do"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4255.12,"endTime":4259.74,"body":"it. And so I went down, I told"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4259.74,"endTime":4264.5,"body":"IRA. I said, Ira, it worked out."},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4259.74,"endTime":4264.5,"body":"Okay. I said, Now, can I have my"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4264.5,"endTime":4271.34,"body":"studio back? I want my skylight"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4264.5,"endTime":4271.34,"body":"back? Yes, but, but that idea of"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4271.7,"endTime":4281.5,"body":"of light and form in space is so"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4271.7,"endTime":4281.5,"body":"powerful and it's, it's the, you"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4281.5,"endTime":4286.72,"body":"know, it's the one thing that I"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4281.5,"endTime":4286.72,"body":"found most difficult about"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4286.72,"endTime":4293.92,"body":"teaching was to teach people how"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4286.72,"endTime":4293.92,"body":"to see because they they think"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4293.92,"endTime":4298.12,"body":"they see somebody wearing a red"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4293.92,"endTime":4298.12,"body":"sweater, and they want They"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4298.12,"endTime":4303.54,"body":"start painting somebody wearing"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4298.12,"endTime":4303.54,"body":"a red sweater, and they've taken"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4303.54,"endTime":4308.04,"body":"no notice of the light. They've"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4303.54,"endTime":4308.04,"body":"taken no notice of the space."},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4308.52,"endTime":4312.06,"body":"They're only seeing the form."},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4308.52,"endTime":4312.06,"body":"And I said, you're seeing the"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4312.06,"endTime":4315.72,"body":"easiest thing. The form is easy"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4312.06,"endTime":4315.72,"body":"to see because the the light is"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4315.72,"endTime":4320.96,"body":"is is exposing the form. For"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4315.72,"endTime":4320.96,"body":"you, you're seeing the light in"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4320.96,"endTime":4327.2,"body":"the shade it. It tells you what"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4320.96,"endTime":4327.2,"body":"the form is, but the light is so"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4327.2,"endTime":4331.82,"body":"incredible, it has a a character"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4327.2,"endTime":4331.82,"body":"of its own. I said, Imagine if"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4331.82,"endTime":4339.26,"body":"we had the same model, and we"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4331.82,"endTime":4339.26,"body":"stayed here for 24 hours, and we"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4339.98,"endTime":4344.8,"body":"painted here with the skylight"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4339.98,"endTime":4344.8,"body":"until it got dark. And then we"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4344.8,"endTime":4347.44,"body":"decided, Oh, we want to keep"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4344.8,"endTime":4347.44,"body":"painting through the evening."},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4347.92,"endTime":4352.12,"body":"And you turn on an electric"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4347.92,"endTime":4352.12,"body":"light, even if it's coming from"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4352.12,"endTime":4355.54,"body":"the same direction, it's a"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4352.12,"endTime":4355.54,"body":"different kind of light. It has"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4355.54,"endTime":4360.28,"body":"a different quality, a different"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4355.54,"endTime":4360.28,"body":"character. And then, you know,"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4360.34,"endTime":4365.46,"body":"we it would get into the late"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4360.34,"endTime":4365.46,"body":"night, and I turn out all the"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4365.46,"endTime":4369.66,"body":"lights, and we paint by"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4365.46,"endTime":4369.66,"body":"moonlight, and it's the same"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4369.66,"endTime":4373.86,"body":"model, the same person in the"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4369.66,"endTime":4373.86,"body":"same pose. We're in the same"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4373.86,"endTime":4378.72,"body":"costume. Now we're painting"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4373.86,"endTime":4378.72,"body":"moonlight, and it has another"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4378.78,"endTime":4384.62,"body":"quality of its own. So you know,"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4378.78,"endTime":4384.62,"body":"the model has a character, the"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4384.62,"endTime":4388.52,"body":"light has a character. And then"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4384.62,"endTime":4388.52,"body":"I said, we haven't even gotten"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4388.52,"endTime":4394.28,"body":"to the space yet, and the space"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4388.52,"endTime":4394.28,"body":"has a character of its own. And,"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4394.34,"endTime":4398.18,"body":"you know, it makes a huge"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4394.34,"endTime":4398.18,"body":"difference if we're painting in"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4398.18,"endTime":4402.22,"body":"New York City in in the winter,"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4398.18,"endTime":4402.22,"body":"and the heat is on and it's very"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4402.22,"endTime":4406.54,"body":"dry, or we're painting in New"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4402.22,"endTime":4406.54,"body":"Orleans in the summer, and it's"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4406.54,"endTime":4410.62,"body":"very sultry and very hot. The"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4406.54,"endTime":4410.62,"body":"air has a lot more water in it."},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4411.16,"endTime":4413.44,"body":"The air is very different. You"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4411.16,"endTime":4413.44,"body":"can see this when you do"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4413.44,"endTime":4417.1,"body":"landscape painting so easily."},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4413.44,"endTime":4417.1,"body":"You know, when you start out,"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4417.7,"endTime":4420.48,"body":"you know, there were many times"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4417.7,"endTime":4420.48,"body":"I went out and I couldn't see"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4420.48,"endTime":4424.14,"body":"anything. It was just mist, you"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4420.48,"endTime":4424.14,"body":"know it so there was just"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4424.14,"endTime":4428.58,"body":"nothing but water in the air."},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4424.14,"endTime":4428.58,"body":"And then as the sun started to"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4428.58,"endTime":4435.24,"body":"rise, the mist starts to lift,"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4428.58,"endTime":4435.24,"body":"and the quality of the space"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4435.48,"endTime":4440.18,"body":"changes. And then finally, when"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4435.48,"endTime":4440.18,"body":"you have the full sunlight, it's"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4440.18,"endTime":4445.34,"body":"just a totally wild, different"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4440.18,"endTime":4445.34,"body":"thing than it was when you"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4445.4,"endTime":4449.66,"body":"started out in the mist. And"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4445.4,"endTime":4449.66,"body":"it's it's not that the subject"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4449.66,"endTime":4454.52,"body":"has changed, you know, the light"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4449.66,"endTime":4454.52,"body":"has changed, yes, but the air"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4454.52,"endTime":4461.44,"body":"has changed tremendously. And so"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4454.52,"endTime":4461.44,"body":"now that the air in the room,"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4461.44,"endTime":4466.0,"body":"the air in your painting has a"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4461.44,"endTime":4466.0,"body":"character and a personality, and"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4466.48,"endTime":4469.42,"body":"you know, so now you're painting"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4466.48,"endTime":4469.42,"body":"the all three things that you're"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4469.42,"endTime":4473.56,"body":"seeing. You know, when you look"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4469.42,"endTime":4473.56,"body":"at the model you're seeing,"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4474.7,"endTime":4478.06,"body":"seeing the model sitting at"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4474.7,"endTime":4478.06,"body":"certain distance in front of the"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4478.06,"endTime":4482.88,"body":"wall. So if, if she's three feet"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4478.06,"endTime":4482.88,"body":"in front of the wall, then you"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4482.88,"endTime":4485.82,"body":"see the light passing behind and"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4482.88,"endTime":4485.82,"body":"coming out on the shadow side of"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4485.82,"endTime":4489.3,"body":"the head. And it's quite"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4485.82,"endTime":4489.3,"body":"beautiful. She moves back a"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4489.3,"endTime":4494.16,"body":"little bit, and there's less"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4489.3,"endTime":4494.16,"body":"light coming behind her head,"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4494.7,"endTime":4498.6,"body":"and then she presses all the way"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4494.7,"endTime":4498.6,"body":"against the wall. There is no"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4498.6,"endTime":4501.38,"body":"light and the shadow is direct."},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4498.6,"endTime":4501.38,"body":"Against the shadow side of the"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4501.38,"endTime":4507.86,"body":"head, and they mass into this"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4501.38,"endTime":4507.86,"body":"great dark and that space, if"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4507.86,"endTime":4511.58,"body":"you don't explain it to the"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4507.86,"endTime":4511.58,"body":"viewer, then, then you haven't"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4511.58,"endTime":4517.04,"body":"explained what you're seeing. So"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4511.58,"endTime":4517.04,"body":"when? So you know, when somebody"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4517.04,"endTime":4521.02,"body":"says, I I want to paint what I"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4517.04,"endTime":4521.02,"body":"see. I said, What do you see?"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4522.7,"endTime":4527.14,"body":"You know, I see all when I saw"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4522.7,"endTime":4527.14,"body":"the Prometheus, you know, I saw"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4527.2,"endTime":4533.5,"body":"his his head coming forward, his"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4527.2,"endTime":4533.5,"body":"feet kicking, you know, up into"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4533.5,"endTime":4536.26,"body":"the air in the back, and I saw"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4533.5,"endTime":4536.26,"body":"the landscape going off in the"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4536.26,"endTime":4540.96,"body":"distance, and the the eagle"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4536.26,"endTime":4540.96,"body":"flying in and and turning its"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4540.96,"endTime":4545.4,"body":"head to peck out the liver. And,"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4540.96,"endTime":4545.4,"body":"you know, the eagle was flying"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4545.4,"endTime":4550.32,"body":"in space. And there was such"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4545.4,"endTime":4550.32,"body":"this thing I love about Rubens"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4550.32,"endTime":4556.44,"body":"is that he paints luminosity."},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4550.32,"endTime":4556.44,"body":"And, you know, painting"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4556.44,"endTime":4560.9,"body":"luminosity is different than"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4556.44,"endTime":4560.9,"body":"painting light tones and shadow"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4560.9,"endTime":4566.54,"body":"tones. You know, light and shade"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4560.9,"endTime":4566.54,"body":"are wonderful. They're tones. So"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4566.54,"endTime":4570.8,"body":"you're painting light and shade."},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4566.54,"endTime":4570.8,"body":"So you're painting literally"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4570.8,"endTime":4575.78,"body":"what falls on the model. So, so"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4570.8,"endTime":4575.78,"body":"you're doing a painting of light"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4575.78,"endTime":4579.14,"body":"and shade. Luminosity is"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4575.78,"endTime":4579.14,"body":"different. You know, we always"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4579.14,"endTime":4585.4,"body":"say the moon is so luminous and"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4579.14,"endTime":4585.4,"body":"the moon is is doesn't have any"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4585.4,"endTime":4591.58,"body":"light at all. You know, you have"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4585.4,"endTime":4591.58,"body":"the sun falling on the moon, and"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4591.82,"endTime":4594.82,"body":"if you just paint that, then"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4591.82,"endTime":4594.82,"body":"you're painting the light on the"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4594.82,"endTime":4598.3,"body":"moon. But it's luminous because"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4594.82,"endTime":4598.3,"body":"the light comes back to your"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4598.3,"endTime":4604.26,"body":"eye, and the fact that the light"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4598.3,"endTime":4604.26,"body":"comes back to your eye is what"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4604.38,"endTime":4609.3,"body":"makes Rubens so much different"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4604.38,"endTime":4609.3,"body":"than the entire 19th century."},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4609.96,"endTime":4613.02,"body":"And they did some beautiful"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4609.96,"endTime":4613.02,"body":"things in the 19th century, but"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4613.02,"endTime":4616.8,"body":"Rubens has the light bouncing"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4613.02,"endTime":4616.8,"body":"off of the paint back to your"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4616.8,"endTime":4621.8,"body":"eye. And I said, You can do this"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4616.8,"endTime":4621.8,"body":"on your palette is it? Just take"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4621.8,"endTime":4626.78,"body":"some white paint and make a"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4621.8,"endTime":4626.78,"body":"little square on your palette"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4627.08,"endTime":4636.2,"body":"with the white paint. And do it,"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4627.08,"endTime":4636.2,"body":"put a lot of medium in it so it"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4636.2,"endTime":4639.2,"body":"looks transparent, so you can"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4636.2,"endTime":4639.2,"body":"see the palette right through"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4639.2,"endTime":4643.9,"body":"the white and then do another"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4639.2,"endTime":4643.9,"body":"square next to it that's a"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4643.9,"endTime":4648.34,"body":"little more opaque, so you can't"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4643.9,"endTime":4648.34,"body":"see the palette anymore. And"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4648.34,"endTime":4652.84,"body":"then put a third square next to"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4648.34,"endTime":4652.84,"body":"that, where the pain is really"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4652.84,"endTime":4659.26,"body":"thick and really heavy and"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4652.84,"endTime":4659.26,"body":"really powerful. And then look"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4659.44,"endTime":4664.14,"body":"at these three whites. It's the"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4659.44,"endTime":4664.14,"body":"same white that you've used for"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4664.14,"endTime":4668.7,"body":"all three. The one with the"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4664.14,"endTime":4668.7,"body":"greatest opacity looks the most"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4668.7,"endTime":4674.04,"body":"brilliant because the light is"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4668.7,"endTime":4674.04,"body":"bouncing back to your eye, and"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4674.34,"endTime":4677.82,"body":"that makes such even when you"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4674.34,"endTime":4677.82,"body":"look at a Rubens, you know, his"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4677.82,"endTime":4682.04,"body":"highlights are, you know,"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4677.82,"endTime":4682.04,"body":"probably a foot thick. You know,"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4682.16,"endTime":4686.48,"body":"they're not a foot but you know"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4682.16,"endTime":4686.48,"body":"that's the greatest opacity in"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4686.48,"endTime":4691.82,"body":"the painting. And and you know,"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4686.48,"endTime":4691.82,"body":"when you're looking at the"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4691.82,"endTime":4695.72,"body":"Prometheus, you can see these"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4691.82,"endTime":4695.72,"body":"tones. And I love, once I"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4695.72,"endTime":4703.18,"body":"understood this, he would paint"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4695.72,"endTime":4703.18,"body":"from light to dark, and he would"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4703.18,"endTime":4708.76,"body":"go from opacity to transparency."},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4703.18,"endTime":4708.76,"body":"And I would look at some"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4708.76,"endTime":4713.98,"body":"paintings, and I would just look"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4708.76,"endTime":4713.98,"body":"at a forearm that he had of a"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4713.98,"endTime":4718.66,"body":"figure. And he would go from"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4713.98,"endTime":4718.66,"body":"this tremendous opacity where"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4718.66,"endTime":4722.82,"body":"the light was and come back"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4718.66,"endTime":4722.82,"body":"through the color of the middle"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4722.82,"endTime":4727.38,"body":"tone and into the transparency"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4722.82,"endTime":4727.38,"body":"of the shadow. And it was"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4727.44,"endTime":4730.86,"body":"literally, as I said before,"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4727.44,"endTime":4730.86,"body":"like he was breathing on the"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4730.86,"endTime":4734.4,"body":"canvas. It, you know, I couldn't"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4730.86,"endTime":4734.4,"body":"see the brush work going from"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4734.4,"endTime":4738.6,"body":"one place to another. It was as"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4734.4,"endTime":4738.6,"body":"if he just breathed on the"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4738.6,"endTime":4743.06,"body":"canvas and and this thing"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4738.6,"endTime":4743.06,"body":"appeared, and it's so"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4743.06,"endTime":4747.92,"body":"astonishing and so powerful. And"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4743.06,"endTime":4747.92,"body":"when I looked at it, I saw a"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4747.92,"endTime":4751.4,"body":"human arm. You know, I didn't"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4747.92,"endTime":4751.4,"body":"see any technique. I saw a human"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4751.4,"endTime":4754.88,"body":"arm. But being a student, I I'm"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4751.4,"endTime":4754.88,"body":"trying to analyze what I'm"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4754.88,"endTime":4760.12,"body":"looking at, and it's such a"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4754.88,"endTime":4760.12,"body":"powerful thing. And it"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4760.12,"endTime":4763.48,"body":"disappeared for a long time. You"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4760.12,"endTime":4763.48,"body":"know, he developed this idea of"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4763.48,"endTime":4767.44,"body":"transparency in the shadows."},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4763.48,"endTime":4767.44,"body":"Titian would do it with glazes"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4767.44,"endTime":4770.56,"body":"on top. Rembrandt would do it"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4767.44,"endTime":4770.56,"body":"with with some thinner paint on"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4770.56,"endTime":4775.3,"body":"top. Rubens really developed"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4770.56,"endTime":4775.3,"body":"this idea of using opacity and"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4775.3,"endTime":4782.76,"body":"transparency. And, you know, my"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4775.3,"endTime":4782.76,"body":"teacher sort of rediscovered it"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4782.94,"endTime":4786.66,"body":"just before I came to New York."},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4782.94,"endTime":4786.66,"body":"He had learned from dumani, had"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4786.66,"endTime":4789.6,"body":"learned a tonal way of painting,"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4786.66,"endTime":4789.6,"body":"and he did some beautiful,"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4789.6,"endTime":4794.58,"body":"beautiful things. And as he was"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4789.6,"endTime":4794.58,"body":"painting, he was doing the same"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4794.58,"endTime":4796.8,"body":"thing I was doing. He was"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4794.58,"endTime":4796.8,"body":"looking at the Rubens and"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4796.8,"endTime":4799.62,"body":"saying, Why is this different?"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4796.8,"endTime":4799.62,"body":"And this is why he was the right"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4799.62,"endTime":4804.56,"body":"teacher. For me, because we were"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4799.62,"endTime":4804.56,"body":"both thinking the same way. And"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4804.56,"endTime":4806.72,"body":"it's not that I"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4808.1,"endTime":4812.42,"body":"adopted his thinking, it's that"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4808.1,"endTime":4812.42,"body":"we were both in sync right from"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4812.42,"endTime":4819.5,"body":"the beginning, and in 1973 the"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4812.42,"endTime":4819.5,"body":"self portrait where he he did,"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4819.74,"endTime":4823.3,"body":"he was wearing a big beret. It"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4819.74,"endTime":4823.3,"body":"was very romantic. And he did"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4823.3,"endTime":4826.12,"body":"these big opacities in the light"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4823.3,"endTime":4826.12,"body":"and let the shadows be"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4826.12,"endTime":4832.3,"body":"transparent. And it was"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4826.12,"endTime":4832.3,"body":"beautiful. And, and he continued"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4832.3,"endTime":4837.22,"body":"playing with this idea all the"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4832.3,"endTime":4837.22,"body":"time. And and we thought about"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4837.22,"endTime":4840.66,"body":"it, and I thought about it. And"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4837.22,"endTime":4840.66,"body":"after he passed away, I kept"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4840.66,"endTime":4843.54,"body":"thinking about it, and as I"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4840.66,"endTime":4843.54,"body":"started teaching and trying to"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4843.54,"endTime":4846.3,"body":"explain it to the students, you"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4843.54,"endTime":4846.3,"body":"know why? Why this is so"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4846.3,"endTime":4850.26,"body":"important. And I finally"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4846.3,"endTime":4850.26,"body":"realized one day that what he"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4850.26,"endTime":4856.5,"body":"was doing, he was echoing what"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4850.26,"endTime":4856.5,"body":"happens in nature. And as I was"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4856.5,"endTime":4862.1,"body":"in the classroom, I was looking"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4856.5,"endTime":4862.1,"body":"at the easel at the league, the"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4862.1,"endTime":4864.5,"body":"student had their painting on"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4862.1,"endTime":4864.5,"body":"the easel, and it had a wooden"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4864.5,"endTime":4869.78,"body":"clamp and and it had a metal"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4864.5,"endTime":4869.78,"body":"screw through it. And I said,"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4869.84,"endTime":4877.7,"body":"the light is falling on this"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4869.84,"endTime":4877.7,"body":"clamp, evenly on the wood and on"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4877.7,"endTime":4881.86,"body":"the metal. Why is the metal have"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4877.7,"endTime":4881.86,"body":"a bigger highlight than the wood"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4881.86,"endTime":4887.86,"body":"does, and it was because of the"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4881.86,"endTime":4887.86,"body":"the density of the the metal"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4888.58,"endTime":4892.9,"body":"that it reflected the light"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4888.58,"endTime":4892.9,"body":"back. And so he was doing the"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4892.9,"endTime":4900.04,"body":"wood was softer, so it had less"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4892.9,"endTime":4900.04,"body":"of a reflection coming back to"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4900.04,"endTime":4903.18,"body":"the eye still had a highlight,"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4900.04,"endTime":4903.18,"body":"but it wasn't anything like the"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4903.18,"endTime":4909.12,"body":"metal. And I, you know, as I was"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4903.18,"endTime":4909.12,"body":"doing that, I was realized he's"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4909.18,"endTime":4914.46,"body":"echoing what nature does. So as"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4909.18,"endTime":4914.46,"body":"you you make your paint denser,"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4915.78,"endTime":4920.4,"body":"as you build it up and make this"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4915.78,"endTime":4920.4,"body":"great opacity, what you're doing"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4921.06,"endTime":4925.64,"body":"is creating a circumstance where"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4921.06,"endTime":4925.64,"body":"the light can bounce off of the"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4925.64,"endTime":4930.56,"body":"paint and back to your eye with"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4925.64,"endTime":4930.56,"body":"more authority than it does on"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4930.56,"endTime":4935.72,"body":"the less opaque areas, and then"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4930.56,"endTime":4935.72,"body":"when you get to the shadows. So"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4935.72,"endTime":4938.78,"body":"now I have to think, why is he"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4935.72,"endTime":4938.78,"body":"using transparency in the"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4938.78,"endTime":4945.7,"body":"shadows? And it made perfect"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4938.78,"endTime":4945.7,"body":"sense, because a shadow is the"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4945.7,"endTime":4951.34,"body":"absence of light. So in the"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4945.7,"endTime":4951.34,"body":"absence of light, he also"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4951.34,"endTime":4956.14,"body":"creates the absence of paint."},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4951.34,"endTime":4956.14,"body":"And you have to put something,"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4956.14,"endTime":4959.86,"body":"you need some tone on there in"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4956.14,"endTime":4959.86,"body":"order just to so you don't just"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4959.86,"endTime":4962.1,"body":"have the bare ground, because"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4959.86,"endTime":4962.1,"body":"the light will bounce off of the"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4962.1,"endTime":4965.82,"body":"ground back to your eye with a"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4962.1,"endTime":4965.82,"body":"certain intensity too. But he he"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4965.82,"endTime":4974.1,"body":"does it very transparently. So"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4965.82,"endTime":4974.1,"body":"when you look at that arm, the"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4974.1,"endTime":4977.82,"body":"light is bouncing back in a"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4974.1,"endTime":4977.82,"body":"powerful way, off of the biggest"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4977.82,"endTime":4983.84,"body":"light, and not bouncing back at"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4977.82,"endTime":4983.84,"body":"all through the shadow and it."},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4983.96,"endTime":4988.94,"body":"And he's, he's really, you know,"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4983.96,"endTime":4988.94,"body":"echoing nature, but redoubling"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4989.54,"endTime":4992.0,"body":"the effect of the of the light"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4989.54,"endTime":4992.0,"body":"and the shade that you're"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4992.0,"endTime":4996.68,"body":"putting on the painting. So, so"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4992.0,"endTime":4996.68,"body":"he's creating this, this"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4997.04,"endTime":5001.44,"body":"incredible dynamic. And it, it"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":4997.04,"endTime":5001.44,"body":"just seems, to me, it just seems"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5001.44,"endTime":5006.66,"body":"so natural and so beautiful that"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5001.44,"endTime":5006.66,"body":"I can't imagine any other way of"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5006.66,"endTime":5010.26,"body":"painting anymore. And sometimes"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5006.66,"endTime":5010.26,"body":"when you're doing landscape"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5010.26,"endTime":5014.22,"body":"studies, you know, you've got 20"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5010.26,"endTime":5014.22,"body":"minutes to get the sunrise, and"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5014.22,"endTime":5017.1,"body":"you just, you don't worry about"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5014.22,"endTime":5017.1,"body":"all that stuff. You just get"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5017.1,"endTime":5021.62,"body":"some color notes down there. But"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5017.1,"endTime":5021.62,"body":"it's such a beautiful, such a"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5021.62,"endTime":5029.84,"body":"powerful way of of of thinking."},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5021.62,"endTime":5029.84,"body":"And as I was trying to explain"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5029.84,"endTime":5035.0,"body":"space one day, you know, this is"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5029.84,"endTime":5035.0,"body":"the beauty of teaching, is it?"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5035.0,"endTime":5039.98,"body":"It forces you to verbalize"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5035.0,"endTime":5039.98,"body":"everything. And you know, Mason"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5039.98,"endTime":5045.34,"body":"just did it by having you watch"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5039.98,"endTime":5045.34,"body":"him, and you you know, he would"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5045.34,"endTime":5048.64,"body":"say, I paint, and you learn."},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5045.34,"endTime":5048.64,"body":"And, you know, watch what I do,"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5048.64,"endTime":5052.48,"body":"and then you'll learn. I felt"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5048.64,"endTime":5052.48,"body":"like I had to explain it to"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5052.48,"endTime":5058.48,"body":"people, you know, why I was"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5052.48,"endTime":5058.48,"body":"doing this, and so I took the"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5058.48,"endTime":5065.34,"body":"example of the easel again, and"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5058.48,"endTime":5065.34,"body":"I said, as we're painting this,"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5066.6,"endTime":5072.72,"body":"I said, you can put your hand"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5066.6,"endTime":5072.72,"body":"over the back of the easel. You"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5072.72,"endTime":5076.5,"body":"can put your hand in space. You"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5072.72,"endTime":5076.5,"body":"can go right around it. And I"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5076.5,"endTime":5082.4,"body":"started thinking about edges."},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5076.5,"endTime":5082.4,"body":"And artists love edges. Edges is"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5082.4,"endTime":5085.94,"body":"just, you know, a chapter in"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5082.4,"endTime":5085.94,"body":"every book. People love edges."},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5086.96,"endTime":5092.24,"body":"And, you know, I've always had a"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5086.96,"endTime":5092.24,"body":"problem with it because I was"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5092.24,"endTime":5098.96,"body":"having difficulty making things"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5092.24,"endTime":5098.96,"body":"move in space when there was a"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5099.2,"endTime":5104.92,"body":"sharp edge. On something, and I"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5099.2,"endTime":5104.92,"body":"had to create for myself a way"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5104.92,"endTime":5113.26,"body":"of thinking so that I wasn't"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5104.92,"endTime":5113.26,"body":"just painting what I was seeing."},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5113.86,"endTime":5121.62,"body":"I had to explain to myself what"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5113.86,"endTime":5121.62,"body":"the edge of the easel was, and I"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5121.62,"endTime":5127.08,"body":"developed the idea as I was"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5121.62,"endTime":5127.08,"body":"doing floral painting. And I"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5127.08,"endTime":5131.1,"body":"came up with the idea that even"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5127.08,"endTime":5131.1,"body":"though, in the dictionary, an"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5131.1,"endTime":5134.88,"body":"edge is where something"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5131.1,"endTime":5134.88,"body":"disappears from your eye, and"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5134.88,"endTime":5140.6,"body":"I've changed that definition for"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5134.88,"endTime":5140.6,"body":"myself, and I made an an edge"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5140.6,"endTime":5145.52,"body":"where two planes meet. So where"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5140.6,"endTime":5145.52,"body":"two planes meet, there's an"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5145.52,"endTime":5149.54,"body":"edge. So I looked at the front"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5145.52,"endTime":5149.54,"body":"of the easel, and there was the"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5149.54,"endTime":5154.04,"body":"top of the the the ledge where"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5149.54,"endTime":5154.04,"body":"you put the painting, and then"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5154.04,"endTime":5157.82,"body":"there was the front, and between"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5154.04,"endTime":5157.82,"body":"the two there was planes"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5157.82,"endTime":5160.66,"body":"meeting, and there was a little"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5157.82,"endTime":5160.66,"body":"highlight where those planes"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5160.66,"endTime":5165.76,"body":"were meeting. And that was then"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5160.66,"endTime":5165.76,"body":"we went back to the, you know,"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5165.76,"endTime":5171.82,"body":"across the the the ledge of the"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5165.76,"endTime":5171.82,"body":"the easel, and we went behind"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5171.82,"endTime":5175.54,"body":"the painting to where the ledge"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5171.82,"endTime":5175.54,"body":"met the the upright of the"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5175.54,"endTime":5182.04,"body":"easel. And I said, this is also"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5175.54,"endTime":5182.04,"body":"an this is an interior edge."},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5182.04,"endTime":5184.68,"body":"This is where two planes are"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5182.04,"endTime":5184.68,"body":"meeting inside of a box. The"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5184.68,"endTime":5188.58,"body":"other was two planes meeting on"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5184.68,"endTime":5188.58,"body":"the outside of a box. One had a"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5188.58,"endTime":5193.74,"body":"highlight, the other has kind of"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5188.58,"endTime":5193.74,"body":"a dark accent to it. And where"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5193.74,"endTime":5199.14,"body":"planes meet, wonderful things"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5193.74,"endTime":5199.14,"body":"happen. But then what do you do"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5199.14,"endTime":5203.6,"body":"when planes aren't meeting? What"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5199.14,"endTime":5203.6,"body":"do you do when you're painting a"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5203.6,"endTime":5208.82,"body":"flower and it's floating in"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5203.6,"endTime":5208.82,"body":"space? And yes, the the flower"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5208.82,"endTime":5212.42,"body":"stops, the color stops, the"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5208.82,"endTime":5212.42,"body":"light stops, everything stops,"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5212.48,"endTime":5218.84,"body":"and then there's space behind"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5212.48,"endTime":5218.84,"body":"it. And I started referring to"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5218.84,"endTime":5222.4,"body":"that as a turning plane, where"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5218.84,"endTime":5222.4,"body":"you're where you're not just"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5223.06,"endTime":5225.52,"body":"meeting another plane, but"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5223.06,"endTime":5225.52,"body":"you're actually turning into"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5225.52,"endTime":5231.76,"body":"space. And so as I was doing"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5225.52,"endTime":5231.76,"body":"that, I could develop more of a"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5231.76,"endTime":5237.04,"body":"spatial concept in my mind by"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5231.76,"endTime":5237.04,"body":"doing that. So as I was mixing"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5237.04,"endTime":5241.2,"body":"my colors, I was thinking that"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5237.04,"endTime":5241.2,"body":"it's not just this color against"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5241.2,"endTime":5247.56,"body":"that color, it's this color"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5241.2,"endTime":5247.56,"body":"against the space behind it. And"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5247.56,"endTime":5252.12,"body":"I started painting with more"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5247.56,"endTime":5252.12,"body":"distance, and I realized that"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5252.12,"endTime":5257.04,"body":"the only edge in this entire"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5252.12,"endTime":5257.04,"body":"floral was where the vase was"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5257.04,"endTime":5261.92,"body":"meeting the table. That was the"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5257.04,"endTime":5261.92,"body":"only edge in the everything else"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5262.16,"endTime":5266.6,"body":"was floating in space. You know,"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5262.16,"endTime":5266.6,"body":"even the the stems and the"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5266.6,"endTime":5270.32,"body":"leaves and everything, every,"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5266.6,"endTime":5270.32,"body":"every part of the painting was"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5270.32,"endTime":5275.48,"body":"moving in space. And if, when I"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5270.32,"endTime":5275.48,"body":"thought to them as as moving"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5275.48,"endTime":5281.02,"body":"from form to a turning plane,"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5275.48,"endTime":5281.02,"body":"it, it just created a mental"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5281.02,"endTime":5286.0,"body":"space for me to then not paint"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5281.02,"endTime":5286.0,"body":"an edge. And if I I painted the"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5286.0,"endTime":5289.78,"body":"two tones next to each other."},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5286.0,"endTime":5289.78,"body":"You know, you start nailing"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5289.78,"endTime":5294.4,"body":"that, that flower to the wall."},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5289.78,"endTime":5294.4,"body":"You know, you you start once you"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5294.4,"endTime":5298.48,"body":"create an edge. Now you have two"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5294.4,"endTime":5298.48,"body":"planes meeting now. Now the the"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5298.48,"endTime":5303.42,"body":"flower is meeting the plane"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5298.48,"endTime":5303.42,"body":"behind it, and it was so"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5303.42,"endTime":5307.26,"body":"helpful. And it's very hard to I"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5303.42,"endTime":5307.26,"body":"can explain it to you, because"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5307.26,"endTime":5312.6,"body":"you're, you're a great painter,"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5307.26,"endTime":5312.6,"body":"you know what you're doing, you"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5312.6,"endTime":5319.14,"body":"know? But that concept, it's"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5312.6,"endTime":5319.14,"body":"just such a beautiful thing. And"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5319.92,"endTime":5323.24,"body":"so I don't want to go on and on"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5319.92,"endTime":5323.24,"body":"and on. We've probably been"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5323.24,"endTime":5328.28,"body":"doing this for two hours"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5323.24,"endTime":5328.28,"body":"already, but, but that's"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5328.28,"endTime":5331.16,"body":"generally my approach to"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5328.28,"endTime":5331.16,"body":"painting is, is light and space"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5331.16,"endTime":5336.38,"body":"and air and and making things as"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5331.16,"endTime":5336.38,"body":"absolutely beautiful and"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5336.38,"endTime":5342.16,"body":"glorious and luminous as they"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5336.38,"endTime":5342.16,"body":"can possibly be. And and, you"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5342.16,"endTime":5346.9,"body":"know, when I see my paintings in"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5342.16,"endTime":5346.9,"body":"shows with other paintings, I do"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5346.9,"endTime":5354.76,"body":"a lot of jury shows, and I look"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5346.9,"endTime":5354.76,"body":"and it, it's just, I feel like a"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5354.76,"endTime":5358.6,"body":"freak of nature, you know,"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5354.76,"endTime":5358.6,"body":"because it looks so different"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5358.6,"endTime":5361.32,"body":"than the way everybody else is"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5358.6,"endTime":5361.32,"body":"painting, not that there aren't"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5361.32,"endTime":5363.9,"body":"other beautiful paintings in the"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5361.32,"endTime":5363.9,"body":"show, and you know, other things"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5363.9,"endTime":5368.88,"body":"are winning awards and doing,"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5363.9,"endTime":5368.88,"body":"but it just looks so so so"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5368.88,"endTime":5375.3,"body":"different. And one of my dreams"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5368.88,"endTime":5375.3,"body":"is to go to a museum where they"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5375.3,"endTime":5379.38,"body":"don't hang things"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5375.3,"endTime":5379.38,"body":"chronologically, and you could"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5379.38,"endTime":5384.38,"body":"see a Van Dyke next to a"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5379.38,"endTime":5384.38,"body":"Whistler and a, you know, a"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5384.38,"endTime":5389.12,"body":"Whistler next to a Fragonard,"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5384.38,"endTime":5389.12,"body":"and Fragonard next to George"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5389.12,"endTime":5393.98,"body":"Innis. And, no, it doesn't"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5389.12,"endTime":5393.98,"body":"matter what it is. It could be"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5394.04,"endTime":5398.12,"body":"anything. They just sort of hang"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5394.04,"endTime":5398.12,"body":"them all up. And then you have,"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5398.24,"endTime":5401.92,"body":"you know, next to George Innis,"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5398.24,"endTime":5401.92,"body":"you have a frank. Mason, and you"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5401.92,"endTime":5406.12,"body":"have somebody contemporary and,"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5401.92,"endTime":5406.12,"body":"and you, you know,"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5406.18,"endTime":5407.68,"body":"you boy, you"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5407.68,"endTime":5413.56,"body":"could start to see, is the whole"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5407.68,"endTime":5413.56,"body":"world moving. And I think it"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5413.56,"endTime":5417.64,"body":"would be great just a huge fun"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5413.56,"endTime":5417.64,"body":"event to see a museum show like"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5417.64,"endTime":5423.72,"body":"that. And I don't think I ever"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5417.64,"endTime":5423.72,"body":"will. Historians don't think"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5423.72,"endTime":5427.2,"body":"that way, but I think it would"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5423.72,"endTime":5427.2,"body":"be great fun."},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":5428.76,"endTime":5431.82,"body":"Yeah, yeah."},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":5428.76,"endTime":5431.82,"body":"It would be worth maybe"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":5431.82,"endTime":5435.0,"body":"convincing a museum to try that"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":5431.82,"endTime":5435.0,"body":"out one day, just just to see"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":5436.44,"endTime":5439.2,"body":"but, yeah, I think what I really"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":5436.44,"endTime":5439.2,"body":"love about how you described"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":5439.2,"endTime":5443.96,"body":"your process is one, one of the"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":5439.2,"endTime":5443.96,"body":"first things is obviously a"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":5443.96,"endTime":5448.22,"body":"continuation of a legacy that we"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":5443.96,"endTime":5448.22,"body":"are continuing as classical"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":5448.22,"endTime":5450.86,"body":"painters. That's the one part"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":5448.22,"endTime":5450.86,"body":"that I really love. The other"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":5450.86,"endTime":5455.9,"body":"part is how you described,"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":5450.86,"endTime":5455.9,"body":"almost like, you know, the"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":5455.96,"endTime":5462.58,"body":"microcosm of the macrocosm, sort"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":5455.96,"endTime":5462.58,"body":"of thing where we are repeating"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":5462.58,"endTime":5466.54,"body":"that creative process in the"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":5462.58,"endTime":5466.54,"body":"same way that it has happened in"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":5466.54,"endTime":5470.56,"body":"the past, right? We are just"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":5466.54,"endTime":5470.56,"body":"that echo"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5471.58,"endTime":5474.04,"body":"creating thing has"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5471.58,"endTime":5474.04,"body":"happened all the way back to the"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5474.04,"endTime":5477.82,"body":"creation of the earth the"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5474.04,"endTime":5477.82,"body":"universe. It's this"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":5477.82,"endTime":5481.08,"body":"echo that"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":5477.82,"endTime":5481.08,"body":"repeats itself and repeats"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":5481.2,"endTime":5481.56,"body":"itself."},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5483.18,"endTime":5486.06,"body":"Different. It's"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5483.18,"endTime":5486.06,"body":"always different. It's like sun"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5486.06,"endTime":5490.26,"body":"rising, you know, you know? And"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5486.06,"endTime":5490.26,"body":"I go out every night with a dog,"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5490.26,"endTime":5493.38,"body":"and I watch the Moon and, and"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5490.26,"endTime":5493.38,"body":"I've never seen the same moon"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5493.38,"endTime":5496.98,"body":"twice, yeah, you know, it's the"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5493.38,"endTime":5496.98,"body":"same thing. The moon rises, the"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5496.98,"endTime":5499.68,"body":"moon goes down and, and"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5496.98,"endTime":5499.68,"body":"sometimes it's cloudy and"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5499.68,"endTime":5503.9,"body":"sometimes it's not, in some but"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5499.68,"endTime":5503.9,"body":"it's different every night."},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5504.5,"endTime":5508.58,"body":"Every night, it's different even"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5504.5,"endTime":5508.58,"body":"though it's the same thing. And"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5508.58,"endTime":5513.02,"body":"I like that idea that that we"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5508.58,"endTime":5513.02,"body":"just keep, we're repeating"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5513.02,"endTime":5516.32,"body":"these, these same incredible"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5513.02,"endTime":5516.32,"body":"things, because they're just so"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5516.32,"endTime":5521.44,"body":"extraordinary. And then, you"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5516.32,"endTime":5521.44,"body":"know, each person will see it in"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5521.44,"endTime":5526.9,"body":"their own way. I mean, my wife"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5521.44,"endTime":5526.9,"body":"is a fabulous painter, and we"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5526.9,"endTime":5530.86,"body":"look at each other's paintings,"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5526.9,"endTime":5530.86,"body":"and we when we were younger, I"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5530.86,"endTime":5533.2,"body":"would try and paint more like"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5530.86,"endTime":5533.2,"body":"her, and she would try and paint"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5533.2,"endTime":5536.98,"body":"more like me. And the more we"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5533.2,"endTime":5536.98,"body":"did that, the more we separate"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5536.98,"endTime":5540.42,"body":"it, and the more different we"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5536.98,"endTime":5540.42,"body":"painted and and my paintings are"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5540.42,"endTime":5546.24,"body":"now totally different from hers"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5540.42,"endTime":5546.24,"body":"and and yet, you know, we can"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5546.24,"endTime":5552.6,"body":"both see the greatness of the"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5546.24,"endTime":5552.6,"body":"other. Yeah, and just great."},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5552.6,"endTime":5558.0,"body":"There is no single way to paint,"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5552.6,"endTime":5558.0,"body":"which is partly why I don't like"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5558.0,"endTime":5562.7,"body":"a step by step process for"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5558.0,"endTime":5562.7,"body":"myself, because it's if there's"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5562.7,"endTime":5565.82,"body":"a step by step process, then at"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5562.7,"endTime":5565.82,"body":"some point you get it right or"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5565.82,"endTime":5569.96,"body":"you get it wrong. Yeah, and, you"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5565.82,"endTime":5569.96,"body":"know, I don't like right and"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5569.96,"endTime":5573.56,"body":"wrong in painting. I like either"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5569.96,"endTime":5573.56,"body":"you've said what you wanted to"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5573.56,"endTime":5575.96,"body":"say, and you've expressed it so"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5573.56,"endTime":5575.96,"body":"beautifully that people were"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5575.96,"endTime":5581.38,"body":"moved to tears, or you didn't,"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5575.96,"endTime":5581.38,"body":"and then you have a successful"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5581.38,"endTime":5586.18,"body":"painting, or you don't, and, but"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5581.38,"endTime":5586.18,"body":"it, it's just such a beautiful"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5586.18,"endTime":5591.4,"body":"world, you know, and feel so"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5586.18,"endTime":5591.4,"body":"privileged to have been able to"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5591.4,"endTime":5595.12,"body":"do this for 50 years. You know,"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5591.4,"endTime":5595.12,"body":"I went to the Art Students"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5595.12,"endTime":5601.2,"body":"League in 1973 and I've had a"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5595.12,"endTime":5601.2,"body":"brush in my hand for 50 years,"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5601.5,"endTime":5606.9,"body":"and you know, nothing can"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5601.5,"endTime":5606.9,"body":"replace that. Nothing, no, no"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5606.9,"endTime":5610.98,"body":"fame, no wealth, no there's"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5606.9,"endTime":5610.98,"body":"nothing that's that's more"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5610.98,"endTime":5615.0,"body":"important than just being able"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5610.98,"endTime":5615.0,"body":"to get up in the morning and"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5615.0,"endTime":5618.3,"body":"take a dog through the woods for"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5615.0,"endTime":5618.3,"body":"a walk and come back and sit at"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5618.3,"endTime":5621.32,"body":"your easel with a beautiful"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5618.3,"endTime":5621.32,"body":"light falling on something, and"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5622.04,"endTime":5629.54,"body":"pick up your brush and and just"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5622.04,"endTime":5629.54,"body":"and watch the painting evolve as"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5629.54,"endTime":5633.38,"body":"you mix your colors and apply"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5629.54,"endTime":5633.38,"body":"them to the canvas. And this,"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5634.16,"endTime":5637.64,"body":"this world opens up. And where"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5634.16,"endTime":5637.64,"body":"you started with this blank"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5638.06,"endTime":5642.94,"body":"space, you've you've brought"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5638.06,"endTime":5642.94,"body":"this whole world into it. It's"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5642.94,"endTime":5646.78,"body":"just so fabulous, very"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5642.94,"endTime":5646.78,"body":"privileged. It's a privileged"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5646.78,"endTime":5647.26,"body":"life"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":5648.22,"endTime":5651.88,"body":"so"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":5648.22,"endTime":5651.88,"body":"fascinating too, because it is,"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":5652.24,"endTime":5657.46,"body":"in my opinion, a very simple"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":5652.24,"endTime":5657.46,"body":"life in a really beautiful, in a"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":5657.76,"endTime":5663.24,"body":"in a poetic way, almost like a"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":5657.76,"endTime":5663.24,"body":"haiku. No word is so precise and"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":5663.24,"endTime":5668.76,"body":"so exact, and it's beautiful as"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":5663.24,"endTime":5668.76,"body":"it is, and it's very much living"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":5668.76,"endTime":5671.46,"body":"in the moment, because you know,"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":5668.76,"endTime":5671.46,"body":"like you're saying, Every moment"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":5671.46,"endTime":5676.02,"body":"is new, every day is new, every"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":5671.46,"endTime":5676.02,"body":"sunrise is different. And I feel"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":5676.02,"endTime":5680.84,"body":"like painting is how you're"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":5676.02,"endTime":5680.84,"body":"describing it is that. It is the"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":5680.84,"endTime":5688.22,"body":"eternal present, right, where"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":5680.84,"endTime":5688.22,"body":"we're just experiencing every"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":5688.34,"endTime":5693.5,"body":"everything as it is in its"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":5688.34,"endTime":5693.5,"body":"moment, and that moment just"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":5693.5,"endTime":5695.96,"body":"continues like there is no"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":5693.5,"endTime":5695.96,"body":"future, there's no past, there's"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":5695.96,"endTime":5700.84,"body":"just now, yeah, and yeah, yeah,"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":5695.96,"endTime":5700.84,"body":"that's. Very powerful, good"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":5700.84,"endTime":5701.38,"body":"stuff,"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":5701.86,"endTime":5709.78,"body":"yes, good stuff, very"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":5701.86,"endTime":5709.78,"body":"existential stuff, which"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":5709.84,"endTime":5713.38,"body":"actually it makes me wonder too,"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":5709.84,"endTime":5713.38,"body":"because you have had so much"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":5713.38,"endTime":5717.76,"body":"experience, like I said earlier,"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":5713.38,"endTime":5717.76,"body":"and you've had so many students"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":5718.24,"endTime":5721.5,"body":"study under you. And it makes me"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":5718.24,"endTime":5721.5,"body":"wonder, because earlier, you"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":5721.5,"endTime":5726.6,"body":"were telling me, before we were"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":5721.5,"endTime":5726.6,"body":"recording how your students each"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":5726.6,"endTime":5730.92,"body":"paint very differently, which I"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":5726.6,"endTime":5730.92,"body":"love. So it makes me wonder,"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":5730.92,"endTime":5735.36,"body":"how, what do you recommend? What"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":5730.92,"endTime":5735.36,"body":"advice would you give to an"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":5735.36,"endTime":5738.42,"body":"artist who wants to develop"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":5735.36,"endTime":5738.42,"body":"their personal voice?"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5739.38,"endTime":5742.16,"body":"Oh, I'm really,"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5739.38,"endTime":5742.16,"body":"really bad at giving artists"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5742.16,"endTime":5746.72,"body":"advice, because I only know my"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5742.16,"endTime":5746.72,"body":"own experience and my"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5746.72,"endTime":5754.28,"body":"experience, you know, may not"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5746.72,"endTime":5754.28,"body":"work for the next person, but I"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5754.28,"endTime":5761.26,"body":"would, you know, the one thing"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5754.28,"endTime":5761.26,"body":"that I I would probably say,"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5761.26,"endTime":5766.0,"body":"look to the old masters. I said,"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5761.26,"endTime":5766.0,"body":"these there. You've had all of"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5766.0,"endTime":5772.72,"body":"these incredible geniuses before"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5766.0,"endTime":5772.72,"body":"you, you know, and, and they"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5772.72,"endTime":5778.48,"body":"spent their lifetimes, you know,"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5772.72,"endTime":5778.48,"body":"developing their ideas. And, you"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5778.48,"endTime":5783.96,"body":"know, just look at, you know,"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5778.48,"endTime":5783.96,"body":"the the early Renaissance, where"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5783.96,"endTime":5787.86,"body":"they where there was so limited"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5783.96,"endTime":5787.86,"body":"linear perspective, and then"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5787.86,"endTime":5792.0,"body":"then it develops. And then later"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5787.86,"endTime":5792.0,"body":"aerial perspective develops. And"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5792.0,"endTime":5795.6,"body":"then new colors come in in the"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5792.0,"endTime":5795.6,"body":"19th century. And is always"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5795.6,"endTime":5801.08,"body":"these great things and and each"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5795.6,"endTime":5801.08,"body":"artist has to take, you know,"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5801.2,"endTime":5804.86,"body":"all this new knowledge, and"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5801.2,"endTime":5804.86,"body":"apply it to their work. And then"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5804.86,"endTime":5808.94,"body":"they develop, they learn"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5804.86,"endTime":5808.94,"body":"something else and and, you"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5808.94,"endTime":5813.62,"body":"know, I think a lot of people"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5808.94,"endTime":5813.62,"body":"will find it boring, you know,"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5813.62,"endTime":5817.1,"body":"they don't really like del"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5813.62,"endTime":5817.1,"body":"Sarto, but I said, copy is"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5817.1,"endTime":5822.58,"body":"drawings. Copy is drawings. I"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5817.1,"endTime":5822.58,"body":"said, don't, you know even more"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5822.58,"endTime":5827.2,"body":"than the paintings. His"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5822.58,"endTime":5827.2,"body":"paintings can often be paintings"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5827.2,"endTime":5830.74,"body":"have a rough life, and sometimes"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5827.2,"endTime":5830.74,"body":"conservatives don't treat them"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5830.74,"endTime":5835.18,"body":"kindly and and it's not always"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5830.74,"endTime":5835.18,"body":"what the artists intended. So"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5835.18,"endTime":5839.92,"body":"what you're seeing is, you know"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5835.18,"endTime":5839.92,"body":"the the birth, because you fit"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5839.92,"endTime":5842.52,"body":"see and see the birth of Venus,"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5839.92,"endTime":5842.52,"body":"and it looks exactly like the"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5842.52,"endTime":5848.28,"body":"postcard, which I did with some"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5842.52,"endTime":5848.28,"body":"I was there with some students,"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5848.28,"endTime":5851.46,"body":"and we were and I was looking at"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5848.28,"endTime":5851.46,"body":"it. I was explaining, you know,"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5851.46,"endTime":5855.84,"body":"that's not what it's supposed to"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5851.46,"endTime":5855.84,"body":"look like. And then in the"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5855.84,"endTime":5858.96,"body":"center of the same room, there"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5855.84,"endTime":5858.96,"body":"were two small paintings on"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5858.96,"endTime":5864.26,"body":"copper by Botticelli that were"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5858.96,"endTime":5864.26,"body":"untouched, and they had"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5864.38,"endTime":5869.18,"body":"beautiful color and space, and"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5864.38,"endTime":5869.18,"body":"they were incredible. And I"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5869.18,"endTime":5871.94,"body":"said, that's what the big"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5869.18,"endTime":5871.94,"body":"painting is supposed to look"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5871.94,"endTime":5877.22,"body":"like. So, so instead of copying"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5871.94,"endTime":5877.22,"body":"paintings, go to drawings,"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5877.22,"endTime":5881.14,"body":"because conservators don't do"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5877.22,"endTime":5881.14,"body":"anything to drawings and and"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5881.14,"endTime":5886.72,"body":"they, they are always, you know,"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5881.14,"endTime":5886.72,"body":"especially the old masters, they"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5886.72,"endTime":5891.34,"body":"were never meant to be seen. You"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5886.72,"endTime":5891.34,"body":"know, they didn't do drawings as"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5891.4,"endTime":5895.66,"body":"as product for sale. They just"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5891.4,"endTime":5895.66,"body":"did them to develop their ideas."},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5895.66,"endTime":5899.86,"body":"So when you're copying a"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5895.66,"endTime":5899.86,"body":"drawing, you're really getting"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5899.86,"endTime":5904.38,"body":"into the head of the artist, and"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5899.86,"endTime":5904.38,"body":"you're really have a chance to"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5904.38,"endTime":5909.06,"body":"see how they think and how they"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5904.38,"endTime":5909.06,"body":"move and and how they're they're"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5909.06,"endTime":5914.28,"body":"hand move. You can copy every"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5909.06,"endTime":5914.28,"body":"stroke of a drawing and really"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5914.28,"endTime":5919.2,"body":"see how they're thinking. You"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5914.28,"endTime":5919.2,"body":"know when, when you see these"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5919.62,"endTime":5923.66,"body":"finished Titians that are so"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5919.62,"endTime":5923.66,"body":"crisp and so beautiful and so"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5923.66,"endTime":5927.2,"body":"finished. Then you look at the"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5923.66,"endTime":5927.2,"body":"drawing for it, and you see the"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5927.2,"endTime":5933.14,"body":"pen just moving back along the"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5927.2,"endTime":5933.14,"body":"the arm in in little spirals as"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5933.14,"endTime":5936.56,"body":"it's going around the form in"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5933.14,"endTime":5936.56,"body":"the shadow. It's like, oh,"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5937.28,"endTime":5943.12,"body":"that's what he's thinking and"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5937.28,"endTime":5943.12,"body":"and I, you know, I, I'm not the"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5943.12,"endTime":5948.82,"body":"biggest fan of of pontormos"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5943.12,"endTime":5948.82,"body":"paintings, but his drawings, oh,"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5948.82,"endTime":5956.5,"body":"my God, you know, they're so"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5948.82,"endTime":5956.5,"body":"fabulous. And we've got to wrap"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5956.5,"endTime":5959.38,"body":"this up. But let me give you"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5956.5,"endTime":5959.38,"body":"one, one little story from"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5959.38,"endTime":5964.98,"body":"Robert Beverly Hill. Go back to"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5959.38,"endTime":5964.98,"body":"my student days and, and he was"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5964.98,"endTime":5969.18,"body":"what he would do, would he would"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5964.98,"endTime":5969.18,"body":"give a lecture, and it would go"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5969.18,"endTime":5972.54,"body":"for maybe 45 minutes or so, and"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5969.18,"endTime":5972.54,"body":"then he'd take a little break"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5972.54,"endTime":5975.9,"body":"and have a little water and and"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5972.54,"endTime":5975.9,"body":"then he come back and he teach"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5975.9,"endTime":5979.74,"body":"again for another 45 minutes or"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5975.9,"endTime":5979.74,"body":"so. And and then after that, he"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5979.74,"endTime":5983.72,"body":"would go back into the back of"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5979.74,"endTime":5983.72,"body":"the room, and the model would"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5983.72,"endTime":5985.94,"body":"stay in the front. He said,"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5983.72,"endTime":5985.94,"body":"those of you that want to draw,"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5985.94,"endTime":5988.88,"body":"you can keep drawing, and those"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5985.94,"endTime":5988.88,"body":"of you who want to watch come to"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5988.88,"endTime":5991.76,"body":"the back of the room, and we"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5988.88,"endTime":5991.76,"body":"were all drawing on big"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5991.88,"endTime":5996.14,"body":"newsprint pads at that time. You"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5991.88,"endTime":5996.14,"body":"know, big 18 by 24 newsprint"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5996.14,"endTime":5999.32,"body":"pads, and you prop it up against"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5996.14,"endTime":5999.32,"body":"the chair, and you're drawing"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5999.32,"endTime":6004.2,"body":"with vine char. Call and and he"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":5999.32,"endTime":6004.2,"body":"didn't care whose drawing it"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":6004.2,"endTime":6010.38,"body":"was. He just said, Somebody put"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":6004.2,"endTime":6010.38,"body":"something up here for me. And so"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":6010.38,"endTime":6016.8,"body":"somebody did, and it was a full"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":6010.38,"endTime":6016.8,"body":"length standing figure. And Hal"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":6016.8,"endTime":6020.72,"body":"looked at it. He said, I noticed"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":6016.8,"endTime":6020.72,"body":"you put a bump on the flank of"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":6020.72,"endTime":6026.12,"body":"the of your figure. Why did you"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":6020.72,"endTime":6026.12,"body":"do that? And the student said,"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":6026.18,"endTime":6032.84,"body":"Well, I saw a bump there, so I"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":6026.18,"endTime":6032.84,"body":"drew it. And Hale said, Well,"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":6033.5,"endTime":6038.48,"body":"you drew a very good bump, and"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":6033.5,"endTime":6038.48,"body":"it looks like a bump. He said,"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":6038.96,"endTime":6043.84,"body":"As you develop as an artist,"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":6038.96,"endTime":6043.84,"body":"you'll realize that bump is"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":6043.84,"endTime":6048.46,"body":"actually the external oblique,"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":6043.84,"endTime":6048.46,"body":"and it runs from the from the"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":6048.88,"endTime":6052.66,"body":"rib cage down to the pelvis, and"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":6048.88,"endTime":6052.66,"body":"it has a form and a function."},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":6053.56,"endTime":6057.76,"body":"And he said, When you know that,"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":6053.56,"endTime":6057.76,"body":"you'll be able to to draw the"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":6057.76,"endTime":6061.8,"body":"external oblique with all of its"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":6057.76,"endTime":6061.8,"body":"character. And he said, The"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":6061.8,"endTime":6065.64,"body":"reason for doing that is not to"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":6061.8,"endTime":6065.64,"body":"show off how much in anatomy you"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":6065.64,"endTime":6069.6,"body":"know, or how smart you are or"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":6065.64,"endTime":6069.6,"body":"how much you've learned. The"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":6069.6,"endTime":6073.26,"body":"reason you do that is because it"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":6069.6,"endTime":6073.26,"body":"makes your figure look more"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":6073.26,"endTime":6079.08,"body":"human. And I thought, what a"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":6073.26,"endTime":6079.08,"body":"beautiful thought. What a"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":6079.08,"endTime":6083.18,"body":"beautiful thought. So, you know,"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":6079.08,"endTime":6083.18,"body":"the reason we're doing all of"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":6083.18,"endTime":6088.76,"body":"these things is to make, you"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":6083.18,"endTime":6088.76,"body":"know, our people look more"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":6088.76,"endTime":6094.34,"body":"human. You know, to make our,"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":6088.76,"endTime":6094.34,"body":"our, our still lifes look, you"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":6094.34,"endTime":6099.26,"body":"know, more delicious. Look. Make"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":6094.34,"endTime":6099.26,"body":"the grapes look like something"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":6099.26,"endTime":6103.3,"body":"that just came off the vine. You"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":6099.26,"endTime":6103.3,"body":"know, to do these things that"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":6103.3,"endTime":6107.14,"body":"bring out, you know, the"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":6103.3,"endTime":6107.14,"body":"character of each thing that"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":6107.14,"endTime":6111.22,"body":"we're painting. But I've always"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":6107.14,"endTime":6111.22,"body":"loved that idea. You know, the"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":6111.22,"endTime":6118.54,"body":"reason you do it is to make your"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":6111.22,"endTime":6118.54,"body":"figure look more human still."},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":6118.66,"endTime":6122.58,"body":"You know, that was 50 years ago."},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":6118.66,"endTime":6122.58,"body":"Still makes my heart be faster,"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":6122.94,"endTime":6126.24,"body":"yeah, you know, to make your"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":6122.94,"endTime":6126.24,"body":"look more human. How beautiful"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":6126.24,"endTime":6130.5,"body":"is that? And he just said it"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":6126.24,"endTime":6130.5,"body":"very quietly, and I don't know"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":6130.5,"endTime":6134.64,"body":"if anybody else remembers it, if"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":6130.5,"endTime":6134.64,"body":"anybody else heard it, you know,"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":6134.64,"endTime":6139.02,"body":"it may have been said just for"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":6134.64,"endTime":6139.02,"body":"me. You know, somebody may have"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":6139.02,"endTime":6142.28,"body":"been, you know, my guardian"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":6139.02,"endTime":6142.28,"body":"angel might have been behind,"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":6142.28,"endTime":6145.52,"body":"tapping me on the shoulder. He"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":6142.28,"endTime":6145.52,"body":"said, Listen to this. What? But"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":6145.52,"endTime":6149.42,"body":"I remember that, you know, 50"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":6145.52,"endTime":6149.42,"body":"years and, boy, those things are"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":6149.42,"endTime":6153.98,"body":"powerful. And he would do that"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":6149.42,"endTime":6153.98,"body":"over and over again. I could"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":6153.98,"endTime":6160.22,"body":"give you another 20 examples,"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":6153.98,"endTime":6160.22,"body":"but he but he was just a"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":6160.22,"endTime":6163.06,"body":"beautiful man. It's a beautiful"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":6160.22,"endTime":6163.06,"body":"way of thinking. And he wasn't"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":6163.06,"endTime":6168.88,"body":"an artist, he was a historian,"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":6163.06,"endTime":6168.88,"body":"and he taught anatomy, but he"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":6168.88,"endTime":6173.02,"body":"was the curator at the"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":6168.88,"endTime":6173.02,"body":"Metropolitan Museum, and he's"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":6173.02,"endTime":6175.06,"body":"the one who brought in the"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":6173.02,"endTime":6175.06,"body":"modern paintings. He's the one"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":6175.06,"endTime":6177.88,"body":"who brought in the Jackson"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":6175.06,"endTime":6177.88,"body":"Pollocks and the and those"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":6177.88,"endTime":6180.54,"body":"things and and then he would"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":6177.88,"endTime":6180.54,"body":"come to the league and teach"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":6180.54,"endTime":6185.82,"body":"classical drawing. And for him,"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":6180.54,"endTime":6185.82,"body":"it was all, you know, part of"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":6185.82,"endTime":6190.08,"body":"the same as you were talking"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":6185.82,"endTime":6190.08,"body":"about this, this the same motion"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":6190.08,"endTime":6193.44,"body":"of time and all these different"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":6190.08,"endTime":6193.44,"body":"things happening together. It's"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":6193.44,"endTime":6198.42,"body":"just beautiful. So I was very"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":6193.44,"endTime":6198.42,"body":"lucky to have such people in my"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":6198.42,"endTime":6198.9,"body":"life,"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":6199.92,"endTime":6203.6,"body":"yes, yeah."},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":6199.92,"endTime":6203.6,"body":"And that his book, truly, I"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":6203.6,"endTime":6207.08,"body":"completely agree with you. It is"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":6203.6,"endTime":6207.08,"body":"a masterpiece of a book for"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":6207.08,"endTime":6208.34,"body":"anyone. Yeah, it's"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":6208.34,"endTime":6212.84,"body":"my Bible. Yeah? I"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":6208.34,"endTime":6212.84,"body":"mean, I must have bought 20"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":6212.84,"endTime":6217.4,"body":"copies because I I wear them out"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":6212.84,"endTime":6217.4,"body":"and I spill wine on them, and I"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":6217.4,"endTime":6222.46,"body":"give them to suit, I give them"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":6217.4,"endTime":6222.46,"body":"to people and but I love I've"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":6222.46,"endTime":6226.48,"body":"copied every drawing in that"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":6222.46,"endTime":6226.48,"body":"book more than once, and I did"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":6226.48,"endTime":6229.48,"body":"it with the intent of trying to"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":6226.48,"endTime":6229.48,"body":"learn the lesson that he was"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":6229.48,"endTime":6235.84,"body":"talking about and but I can"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":6229.48,"endTime":6235.84,"body":"still hear His voice. You can,"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":6235.84,"endTime":6239.68,"body":"you can find him on YouTube."},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":6235.84,"endTime":6239.68,"body":"Somebody taped him. You know,"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":6239.68,"endTime":6243.9,"body":"they're black and old, old,"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":6239.68,"endTime":6243.9,"body":"black and white things that were"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":6243.9,"endTime":6247.86,"body":"made on tape. This was long"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":6243.9,"endTime":6247.86,"body":"before digital stuff and and you"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":6247.86,"endTime":6252.9,"body":"could still find some of his"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":6247.86,"endTime":6252.9,"body":"lectures online. And, yeah, it's"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":6252.9,"endTime":6256.86,"body":"and he would always end every"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":6252.9,"endTime":6256.86,"body":"every lecture. He would always"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":6256.86,"endTime":6264.02,"body":"end with a poem. So, so he'd be"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":6256.86,"endTime":6264.02,"body":"going along and going along and"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":6264.5,"endTime":6269.48,"body":"and talking about the structure"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":6264.5,"endTime":6269.48,"body":"of the the knee, and and then he"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":6269.48,"endTime":6275.24,"body":"would morph into how that would"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":6269.48,"endTime":6275.24,"body":"work in a painting. And, and"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":6275.24,"endTime":6280.66,"body":"then he would morph into a"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":6275.24,"endTime":6280.66,"body":"Kipling poem. You know when"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":6280.66,"endTime":6283.54,"body":"art's last picture is painted"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":6280.66,"endTime":6283.54,"body":"and the tubes are twisted and"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":6283.54,"endTime":6287.14,"body":"dried? Oh, it was fabulous. And"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":6283.54,"endTime":6287.14,"body":"then when he was finished with"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":6287.14,"endTime":6291.94,"body":"the poem, he knew the lecture"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":6287.14,"endTime":6291.94,"body":"was over. Every time every every"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":6291.94,"endTime":6297.34,"body":"lecture ended with a reciting"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":6291.94,"endTime":6297.34,"body":"poetry. Yeah, yeah."},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":6297.76,"endTime":6299.02,"body":"I'm"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":6297.76,"endTime":6299.02,"body":"speechless, yeah."},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":6299.08,"endTime":6300.9,"body":"We need more"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":6299.08,"endTime":6300.9,"body":"people. That we"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":6300.9,"endTime":6303.6,"body":"do, we do. I"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":6300.9,"endTime":6303.6,"body":"completely agree. I think right"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":6303.6,"endTime":6308.52,"body":"now, yeah, I thankfully we're"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":6303.6,"endTime":6308.52,"body":"having that revival more and"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":6308.52,"endTime":6312.48,"body":"more of the classical training."},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":6308.52,"endTime":6312.48,"body":"I mean, I'm an example of it,"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":6312.48,"endTime":6316.38,"body":"since I was also, you know, at"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":6312.48,"endTime":6316.38,"body":"these academies. But yeah, I"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":6316.38,"endTime":6322.28,"body":"think finding more people like"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":6316.38,"endTime":6322.28,"body":"you and like your teachers who"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":6322.52,"endTime":6326.6,"body":"are so passionate about this,"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":6322.52,"endTime":6326.6,"body":"and just talking to them like"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":6326.6,"endTime":6330.26,"body":"I'm talking to you, and how our"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":6326.6,"endTime":6330.26,"body":"listeners are listening. I think"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":6330.26,"endTime":6336.26,"body":"that really makes it so much"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":6330.26,"endTime":6336.26,"body":"more inspiring, and makes it so"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":6336.26,"endTime":6342.46,"body":"much more like we're not alone"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":6336.26,"endTime":6342.46,"body":"in our endeavor to create"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":6342.46,"endTime":6346.48,"body":"beautiful images that speak to"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":6342.46,"endTime":6346.48,"body":"people, right? Because I feel"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":6346.48,"endTime":6351.04,"body":"like that's most of our goal is"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":6346.48,"endTime":6351.04,"body":"to create images that speak to"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":6351.04,"endTime":6351.7,"body":"people. Yeah,"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":6351.7,"endTime":6354.82,"body":"you don't paint"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":6351.7,"endTime":6354.82,"body":"for yourself, no, you know, you"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":6354.82,"endTime":6359.86,"body":"you paint to communicate to"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":6354.82,"endTime":6359.86,"body":"whoever is is open, whoever is"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":6359.86,"endTime":6364.32,"body":"open to it, yeah, and you never,"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":6359.86,"endTime":6364.32,"body":"you never know where you're"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":6364.32,"endTime":6367.74,"body":"going to find that person. I"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":6364.32,"endTime":6367.74,"body":"mean, here, here. You are, you,"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":6367.8,"endTime":6372.72,"body":"you've just come along, you"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":6367.8,"endTime":6372.72,"body":"know, and the two of us are, are"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":6373.26,"endTime":6376.56,"body":"already best friends after just"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":6373.26,"endTime":6376.56,"body":"a couple of hours being together"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":6376.56,"endTime":6381.68,"body":"and and, you know, it's, it's"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":6376.56,"endTime":6381.68,"body":"because we share this, this"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":6381.68,"endTime":6386.12,"body":"commonality, this passion. And,"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":6381.68,"endTime":6386.12,"body":"you know, if, if I can get"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":6386.12,"endTime":6391.1,"body":"somebody else to feel that for"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":6386.12,"endTime":6391.1,"body":"10 minutes, that's great. That's"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":6391.1,"endTime":6394.82,"body":"great. I, you know, I don't have"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":6391.1,"endTime":6394.82,"body":"to change their entire life. You"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":6394.82,"endTime":6398.36,"body":"know, maybe 400 years from now,"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":6394.82,"endTime":6398.36,"body":"somebody will see my, my still"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":6398.36,"endTime":6402.46,"body":"life and and have their life"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":6398.36,"endTime":6402.46,"body":"changed. But whether that"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":6402.46,"endTime":6408.22,"body":"happens or not, if you can, you"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":6402.46,"endTime":6408.22,"body":"know, bring some joy to"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":6408.22,"endTime":6412.3,"body":"somebody's life for 10 minutes."},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":6408.22,"endTime":6412.3,"body":"It's worth all 50 years."},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":6415.84,"endTime":6419.56,"body":"Yes, that"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":6415.84,"endTime":6419.56,"body":"human connection, yeah, yeah,"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":6419.86,"endTime":6423.48,"body":"that's at the foundation of it,"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":6419.86,"endTime":6423.48,"body":"yeah, yeah, yeah, beautiful and,"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":6425.04,"endTime":6426.9,"body":"oh, I think we've"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":6425.04,"endTime":6426.9,"body":"done it. I think we've said it."},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":6429.72,"endTime":6432.54,"body":"Oh, man."},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":6429.72,"endTime":6432.54,"body":"Well, thank you, Thomas, where"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":6432.54,"endTime":6434.64,"body":"can people see more of your"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":6432.54,"endTime":6434.64,"body":"work?"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":6436.14,"endTime":6439.38,"body":"Well, my website,"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":6436.14,"endTime":6439.38,"body":"fine art studios online."},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":6439.44,"endTime":6448.52,"body":"Thomastor art.com and from"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":6439.44,"endTime":6448.52,"body":"there, I started a blog, many,"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":6448.52,"endTime":6452.18,"body":"many, many years ago, when, when"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":6448.52,"endTime":6452.18,"body":"blogs were the thing nowadays, I"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":6452.18,"endTime":6457.76,"body":"would probably do a podcast, but"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":6452.18,"endTime":6457.76,"body":"I, you know, I just beyond that."},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":6458.12,"endTime":6464.74,"body":"But I, I did a blog for a while,"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":6458.12,"endTime":6464.74,"body":"and then, you know, there were"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":6465.64,"endTime":6468.52,"body":"30 posts the first year, and"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":6465.64,"endTime":6468.52,"body":"then 20, and then 10, and then"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":6468.52,"endTime":6471.88,"body":"one, every now and then. But"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":6468.52,"endTime":6471.88,"body":"lately, I've started picking it"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":6471.88,"endTime":6475.18,"body":"up again and just, you know,"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":6471.88,"endTime":6475.18,"body":"just little thoughts about"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":6475.18,"endTime":6477.4,"body":"painting. Sometimes they're"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":6475.18,"endTime":6477.4,"body":"technical, sometimes they're"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":6477.4,"endTime":6481.5,"body":"about the subject and but it's"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":6477.4,"endTime":6481.5,"body":"kind of fun, and I call it"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":6481.5,"endTime":6485.94,"body":"Damico Lord, and that's, it's"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":6481.5,"endTime":6485.94,"body":"Italian for, you know, give me"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":6485.94,"endTime":6489.72,"body":"my palette. Give me my colors."},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":6485.94,"endTime":6489.72,"body":"Since you're an opera fan, I can"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":6489.72,"endTime":6494.88,"body":"explain to you that's from"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":6489.72,"endTime":6494.88,"body":"Tosca. In the beginning of"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":6494.88,"endTime":6499.62,"body":"Tosca, when Mario COVID, also,"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":6494.88,"endTime":6499.62,"body":"you know, says to the sacristan"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":6499.62,"endTime":6504.5,"body":"Tommy, give me my color so I can"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":6499.62,"endTime":6504.5,"body":"paint the Mary Magdalene. And so"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":6504.5,"endTime":6508.94,"body":"I love that. So that was the"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":6504.5,"endTime":6508.94,"body":"title of my my blog. Other than"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":6508.94,"endTime":6513.68,"body":"that, you've just got to go"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":6508.94,"endTime":6513.68,"body":"around and check things out. I"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":6513.68,"endTime":6515.84,"body":"often have things if you're in"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":6513.68,"endTime":6515.84,"body":"New York. I often have things at"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":6515.84,"endTime":6520.42,"body":"the Selma Gundy club. I've been"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":6515.84,"endTime":6520.42,"body":"a member of the Gundy club for a"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":6520.42,"endTime":6523.96,"body":"very, very long time, and and I"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":6520.42,"endTime":6523.96,"body":"like sending them paintings from"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":6523.96,"endTime":6528.64,"body":"time to time. And my gallery is"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":6523.96,"endTime":6528.64,"body":"main galleries here in Vermont,"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":6529.06,"endTime":6534.76,"body":"in Manchester, Vermont, but"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":6529.06,"endTime":6534.76,"body":"they're hard to find. You know,"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":6536.14,"endTime":6540.84,"body":"the best best place is my"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":6536.14,"endTime":6540.84,"body":"website. Best place is the"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":6540.84,"endTime":6541.44,"body":"website"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":6542.16,"endTime":6544.62,"body":"Awesome?"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":6542.16,"endTime":6544.62,"body":"Well, thank you so much, Thomas"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":6544.62,"endTime":6549.3,"body":"for painting with your words"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":6544.62,"endTime":6549.3,"body":"today instead of on your easel"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":6549.66,"endTime":6551.88,"body":"like you normally do. I really"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":6549.66,"endTime":6551.88,"body":"appreciate it."},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":6552.36,"endTime":6554.16,"body":"Some, some,"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":6552.36,"endTime":6554.16,"body":"sometimes you need language"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":6554.16,"endTime":6558.66,"body":"instead of paint. But yes, it's,"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":6554.16,"endTime":6558.66,"body":"you know, this was great. You're"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":6558.66,"endTime":6563.48,"body":"wonderful. And you know you, you"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":6558.66,"endTime":6563.48,"body":"just let me go wherever I want"},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":6563.48,"endTime":6564.68,"body":"to go, which is rare."},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":6565.76,"endTime":6568.88,"body":"Oh, yes, I"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":6565.76,"endTime":6568.88,"body":"love it from walking through a"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":6568.88,"endTime":6569.6,"body":"forest."},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":6569.96,"endTime":6573.08,"body":"There you go."},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":6569.96,"endTime":6573.08,"body":"There you go. Yeah, beautiful."},{"speaker":"Thomas Torak","startTime":6573.8,"endTime":6575.0,"body":"Great. Thank you, Laura,"},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":6575.24,"endTime":6576.02,"body":"thank you."},{"speaker":"Laura Arango Baier","startTime":6575.24,"endTime":6576.02,"body":"Bye."}]}