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156 Shanna Kunz — Never Give Up!
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On today's episode, we sat down with Shanna Kunz, a seasoned landscape artist based in Ogden, Utah, with more than 30 years of painting experience. Her early love for art was nurtured by a family immersed in the outdoors, which deeply influenced her connection to landscapes. After studying at Utah State University, Shanna transitioned from figure painting and creative pursuits like seamstressing into watercolor and later, oil painting, developing a distinctive, atmospheric style. Throughout the conversation, she emphasizes the importance of continuous learning, experimentation, and reminds artists to never give up and always show up at the easel. Shanna also highlights the therapeutic and reflective nature of painting, encouraging both herself and her students to embrace failure, self-discovery, and community. Dedicated to nurturing others, she mentors artists in her Mindful Art Mentoring program, champions lifelong growth, and advises perseverance as the foundation for a fulfilling creative career. Finally, Shanna tells us about all of her upcoming shows!
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First and foremost, never give up. Never give up. Never give up. Never give up. There is going to be so many times that you think, I can't do this anymore. Never give up. You just keep showing up at the easel. Even when it's hard, keep showing up at the easel.
Laura Arango Baier:Welcome to the BoldBrush show, where we believe that fortune favors a bold brush. My name is Laura Baier, and I'm your host. For those of you who are new to the podcast, we are a podcast that covers art marketing techniques and all sorts of business tips specifically to help artists learn to better sell their work. We interview artists at all stages of their careers, as well as others who are in careers tied to the art world, in order to hear their advice and insights. On today's episode, we sat down with Shannon Coons, a seasoned landscape artist based in Ogden, Utah with more than 30 years of painting experience. Her early love for art was nurtured by a family immersed in the outdoors, which deeply influenced her connection to landscapes. After studying at Utah State University, Shanna transitioned from figure painting and creative pursuits like seamstressing into watercolor and leader oil painting, developing a distinctive atmospheric style throughout the conversation, she emphasizes the importance of continuous learning experimentation and reminds artists to never give up and always show up at the easel. Shanna also highlights the therapeutic and reflective nature of painting, encouraging both herself and her students to embrace failure, self discovery and community dedicated to nurturing others. She mentors artists in her mindful art mentoring program champions lifelong growth and advises perseverance as the foundation for a fulfilling creative career. Finally, Shanna tells us about all of her upcoming shows. Welcome Shanna to the BoldBrush show. How are you today? Oh, well, how are you I'm doing great. I'm excited to have you because one of the qualities that I saw in your work that I really, really enjoy, that just fills my heart with Ooh. Is that beautiful? Dave, of quality to your landscapes, and it really makes it feel very dreamlike, atmospheric. So I'm really excited to pick your brain about you and
Shanna Kunz:your work. Okay, thank you. Yeah, you're
Laura Arango Baier:welcome. And then before we do dive into talking about your gorgeous landscapes, do you mind telling us a bit about who you are and what you
Shanna Kunz:do in Ogden, Utah, right up against a mountain? In fact, as I'm looking I can see morning sunlight on my mountain right out my window. That's quite beautiful. My studio is now in my home. It I have had it other places outside of the home, but this seems to work best for me right now. I've been painting for a lot of years, 30, probably about 32 years. I went to school up at Utah State in the art department, because it was really a strong department when I when I went up there, took three years of art, no no math, no science. I already knew what I wanted to be when I grew up, so I just went and took the art classes, just mostly to feel confident in my technique, confident in my abilities. But the thing I fell in love with the most when I went up to school was the art history. The art history is my the most fascinating part of going to school. My tuition was spent in the library. So it was an exploration of many, many of my favorite painters. Fact, every time I go to school, I would come, I would bring home about eight books, and then the next time I went, I'd switch out eight books and get more, which is how I found George Innis actually for landscape painting. But when I was at school, I was a figure painter, and I really thought that that's the direction that I would go, but I am a Forest Service brat. My dad worked for the Forest Service, and we moved from one coast to the other every year and a half we moved to another place. Utah was always home for me. We always came home in the summertime to go camping and fishing. My family was big into outdoors, camping, fishing, skiing. That was just our thing. So when I got out of school, I started just. Messing around with landscapes and feel fell head over heels in love with it, and never looked back. Someday, I'll probably go back to the figure, but right now, my trees are my figure.
Laura Arango Baier:Yes, yes, and trees are just as unique as any person, if not more. Since there's so many of them,
Shanna Kunz:there's so much character to them, and I can take liberties with their shape and care make them a little more caricature, if I want to, or spend a lot of time and make them really look realistic, but kind of like the abstraction that I can get with the trees,
Laura Arango Baier:yeah, yeah. And they have, you know, they have their own gesture, and they have their own movement. And it did, yeah, I think they're definitely one of those unforgettable, sort of beautifully designed, natural things that happen that, I mean, we can all look at for hours, at least I can. And you of course,
Shanna Kunz:yes, for sure, I spend a lot of time plein air painting, but most of my big pieces that go out to the galleries and shows are done in the studio, from my studies and from my own photography and from my own thumbnails and manipulating everything. And then even in the end, the painting becomes even more manipulated. So by the time all is said and done, the trees are me completely,
Laura Arango Baier:yeah, and I think, you know, that's one of those things that I find interesting, is you know your path and how you went from, actually, you were a seamstress for a while, which I think is really cool, and then you had discovered watercolor, right? So I wanted to ask you, did you find that you always had this artistic streak even before when you were a seamstress, or was that something that you kind of discovered as you, you know, practiced your career, and then went, Oh, you know what? I like this more,
Shanna Kunz:always, always, always. I think that's the common denominator for all of us artists. We were the ones on instead of playing the sports in the playground, we were drawing, we had pencil and paper, whatever, and we were over in the corner drawing. I've always loved to draw. Can't even remember a time when I didn't and then creatively, I tried all kinds of things. I grew up being a seamstress, thinking I might go into fashion design, because I I couldn't just follow a pattern. I had to make my patterns. I had to design things myself. But I did decorative painting. I did flower arrangements. I did interior decorating, just a little bit of everything. And I started my got my first watercolor class for my birthday, for my 29th birthday, and that was that I just that. I called up my mom. I said, I know what I want to be when I grow up. She said, Honey, you're already grown up. I said, Well, this is it. So I've never looked back. I started with watercolor, did that for 15 years, and at the encouragement of some of my galleries, started messing with oils. Took me a good year to really learn the edge work in an oil and be able to translate my watercolor style into my oil style, which my watercolors were a little different. Anyway, I still would use a ground, not the white of the paper. They were very color rich, not a typical pastel watercolor look, for sure, and it really did kind of translate well, I went from the same palette of transparent colors in watercolor to transparency in the in my oil paintings. Added a few that were not all completely transparent, but my palette is pretty much the same as it was with watercolor, and I've learned over the years how to manipulate my edges, that I can get a soft edge in the same way that I could with watercolor. It's all about edges for me,
Laura Arango Baier:yes, yeah, yeah. I totally agree. I think edge work, especially in oil painting, I think is such an important component. You know, once, of course, you have value down and color shifts down, that edge work really makes a difference. Because, yeah, it creates, like how we see in your. Work atmosphere. It creates depth. It creates, you know, when you have, like, the sharp edges, that's where the eye goes, because of the higher contrast. And then if you want to really pull someone in, of course, that softness really helps. I think it's so interesting that you started with watercolor, though, because I, I've always been trained as an oil painter, and I have a very deep respect for the difficulty of watercolor. I find watercolor to be such a strange, chaotic medium where you're it's almost like a dance between you and the in the medium. I feel like, with oil paint, yeah, with oil paint, it's so much more like, I'll do whatever I want, and then if it doesn't, I'll just
Shanna Kunz:cover it. You know, is art boot camp, because you really have to be able to plan ahead. Have an idea of what you want already, have a good idea of what your palette is going to be. You really have to visualize how it's going to come together before you even start that being said, I think there's a lot more forgiveness in watercolor than people think, and I do a lot of lifting, as I do with my oil paints as Well. Instead of leaving white areas, they're they're completely covered with the ground. And then if I have an area that is going to be a light one in my lighter values, then I will lift it out with a with a nice stiff, one inch flat brush. So and then it's kind of funny, because I do the same thing with my oils. I do a lot of push and pull with the paint. Got Q tips for both of them and whatever it takes.
Laura Arango Baier:Yeah, do you find that the skills you gain from watercolor were easy to transfer? Because I find that what makes oil paint a little bit harder is the fact that it dries so slowly. And you know, fighting with the medium at first is really hard, but did you find that you were able to transition somewhat easily,
Shanna Kunz:pretty easily. I use it. Used to be called Neoma guilt, or now it's gal could like gel. I use a medium with my oils that help it dry a little bit faster. I don't like acrylics because they dry immediate. And watercolor still takes its time to dry, but you have to know where the shine is on the paper when you can go in, when you can't go in, and you don't quite have that with the oil painting. What the one thing that I really love about oil, that I could never get with watercolor, is I, in watercolor, I would build glazes a lot, but in oil, I can build textures and then glaze, and textures and then glaze. And I love that. I love it. It gives it an actual physical dimension to it that I'm working with, that that mirrors my thought process as I'm working so I do enjoy that part of oil. The part that I love about watercolor is the spontaneousness of it, that you are not completely in charge it. It is a relationship between the paint and the artist and making it come together. So it's kind of, it's, it's, gives me a little adrenaline doing the watercolor. So I don't paint a lot of really large watercolors. All my large pieces are done in oil, but I just like a 16 by 20 in watercolor is the perfect size for me. Yeah.
Laura Arango Baier:I mean, I can imagine making a big watercolor is probably a much, I think, probably a harder process than with oils, since it is so much liquid and trying to protect the paper, right, so it doesn't get too wet, and then you don't really have too much of that with oils. Oils do have, like, their issue with, like, well, you can't use too much oil, like, if you're using linseed or something, because then the Canvas does get saturated, and then it won't take anymore. But I find that that's a little harder to get to with watercolor, you can actually really ruin paper, which is why I have deep respect for the medium. But yeah, and then in terms of, like, your your process, do you follow somewhat of a similar process that you did with watercolor? Or do you, for example, like, go out into the field, do some plein air with oils, and then pull that into the studio? I know a lot of people also do plein air with watercolors. I think that's even crazier. But what's your process like?
Shanna Kunz:I've done quite a bit of Plein Air. Are in watercolor. I don't enjoy it quite as much because then the drying rate is a little unpredictable compared like whatever the weather is like, if it's really hot, it's going to dry fast, and if it's cold outside, it's going to dry slow. Wear oils. I got a pretty good idea of every step of the way, when, when that medium is going to tack up, and how to put a scumble on top of it. And then sometimes I just love to sit down and experiment. We're always learning, and we're always trying new things, and I try to put enough time into my schedule that I'm giving myself the ability to really experiment. And over the last couple of years, even more so I will find something on each and every painting to experiment with. So it used to be I would schedule my shows out, and wouldn't give myself that time. And I found over the years that my my progress, my depth and my knowledge, if I incorporate it in every painting, something that is, of course, I have to have my familiar things, but something that is really risky or experimental in that painting, I always can seem to bring it together in the end. And really I and this is I teach my students, this painting isn't about painting a masterpiece. It's just about learning and researching, researching your your technique, researching your tools, researching your subject matter, it's learning everything you can learn. Instead of making a masterpiece, I always work to a series, whether it's in watercolor or oil. And a series, to me, can be a dozen pieces of one particular area. It can be a dozen pieces of a particular type of tree or a particular type of landscape. It can be four seasons. There's some tying thread between all the pieces in that series. And when I do that, I learned to expound on the good things, take the good things that I learned in this one, and then apply it to this, and then add more, and then these good things to the next thing. I love Monet. I loved. I love his series work, and I love how he just, it was a, just a fresh look on every single piece, but they all had that thread that tied them together, and that's a big deal for me in my work. I really, I really enjoy working in a series high key, low key. I might set up my own parameters and say, Okay, this piece is going to be very dramatic. This piece is going to be as quiet and as little contrast as I can possibly get away with. So it sets me up with a different mentality. Rather than just painting a picture, it's, it's, it's orchestrating something that comes together, that connects to the next thing that's something together. Does that make sense?
Laura Arango Baier:Yeah, totally. And I think one of those things that I that you just mentioned, that I agree with, is your work totally does have that Monet vibe with the Dave bling and the movement of tone. And I can see also how you when I was looking at your work, you know, your keys right, keying it down, keying it up. And I love that, you know the there's this effect that happens also, where, when you key it in a particular way, it gives you such a different atmosphere completely. Yes. And I find that what I love about Monday too, is that instead of shifting in value, he does a lot of just color shifts. And I it really tricks the eye into thinking, oh yeah, change the values. Like, nope, same value, just different color right next to each other.
Shanna Kunz:That's a big deal for me that whole I really like to simplify my values as down to as few as possible, and then create the activity within those values with temperature shifts. I just I had a professor that told me one time that high contrast, high value contrast is like pounding somebody over the head to get their attention. Low value contrast and temperature shifts is like somebody's playing the violin, catching your attention, and it just grows and grows and grows and grows on you. So my work is very. Rarely about the pound on the head. It's just not a lot about extreme contrast in value. It's it is so much more about the color temperature shifts within and holding a value, playing together. That's a that's a really big deal to me.
Laura Arango Baier:Yes, yeah. And I think I mentioned this yesterday, too, too about how when I look at your work, it really does. It feels like a like warmth. It feels like you know, you you're in it, and it doesn't, you know, it's not screaming at you, and it's not like you said, pounding you in the head. It really does feel very gentle. Like, look at this, yeah, world, yeah, of course. And I love that. And I think one of the other things that I think is very interesting is because you were mentioning to, you know, challenging yourself or picking something to experiment with. And I think it's very common for artists. I could just be speaking for myself, but I think it's very common for artists who not give themselves enough grace, or not give themselves that space to experiment and maybe fail, which I think is one of the hardest parts of the creative process. You know, the whole idea of like being in front of a painting can sometimes challenge your perception of yourself. And, yeah, and it's, it can get so interesting. The deeper you get into it, the the more it feels like therapy. You know?
Shanna Kunz:I'll say, you know, it's really funny, because when I was painting all these beautiful soft watercolors, I had chaos in my house all the time because of my kids, and they always had their friends over. So I had a house full of kids all the time, and I would plunk myself down in the middle of the family room floor and paint my watercolors on the floor, and all this chaos going on and these really soft, peaceful paintings were coming out. I'm like, I think this is therapy. I because this is not my life, but I sure enjoy the process and what happens to it in the end. So everything gets quieted down just a little bit now my life, my kids are all grown up, and it's a little quieter around here, so sometimes I can create a little more chaos in my paintings.
Laura Arango Baier:Yeah, and it's a different you know? I mean, obviously the dialog between artists and art is a lifetime, right? And I find that, you know, obviously our pieces inevitably change. In the way that we paint has to change. I mean, if it stagnates, that's that's a problem. But as we change and as we improve, or as we get to know ourselves more, our work shifts as well. Do you find that you know when you're working with your students that do you find that you're also you know, warning them about how hard it is when you start painting, not just the painting part, but the getting to know yourself, partly,
Shanna Kunz:in fact, that's why I started my my personal online course, and I have a mentoring course called mindful art mentoring, and a big part of it is giving my students a really safe space to try and experiment and fail and succeed and fail and succeed, but a place where they feel comfortable in that because it is when you're an artist, it's like you're stepping out naked for the whole world to see. You're wearing your heart on your sleeve, and it's an emotional roller coaster, because one minute you absolutely love the painting that you're working on, and give it three days and you hate it. It's that there's not much in between. It's a love hate relationship going pretty much 24/7 with painting. So yeah, I tell my students those things, and I tell them to give themselves more grace and more play time, I probably do a better job at telling other people to do that than I do with myself, but it's as artists. Most of us are very sensitive people, empathetic we we can feel what other people are feeling, and we're we are sensitive, and we've got a job that actually would require us to have thick skin, and not a one of us has thick skin. So that's that roller coaster. Of I love this, I hate this. I love this. I hate this. And really figuring out art reflects life so much when we're going through an area in a time in our life where maybe we're not as confident. We're probably going through that with our paintings, when we're going through a playful time in life, adventurous. It's, it's showing up in our work. Everything about us as humans, our humanity shows up in our work. And I love that. I do love that. Yeah, therapy,
Laura Arango Baier:yes, yeah. And what you just mentioned, you know, it also reminds me of this thing that I like to say, and it just it feels more and more like the truth every time, which is that looking at a painting oftentimes feels like looking at a mirror of, you know, your state of mind, like you said, where, oh, I'm going through some tough stuff. And then, you know, look at your work. It's, like, yeah, I can tell you know, so yeah, I see I'll tell you that you're
Shanna Kunz:I'll tell you a funny story. Years ago, I went through a divorce, and for the next year, I just was painting through all of that, through that experience, and working through pain, working through self reflection, owning my part, and two of my gallery directors were up in we were at the Western visions show, and in Jackson Hole and two of my gallery owners took me out to dinner and sat across from Me. And who is it? We're having a nice dinner. And they both stop and look at me and said, We have to tell you something. And I'm like, Uh oh. And they said, enough with the single trees in the moody skies. And I went, what? What are you talking about? And I started thinking every painting I had created in the last year was this strong, stable, one single tree with these storms around it and fog and mist and atmosphere. And I didn't even realize I was doing it. I had no idea it was not an intentional symbolism. It was completely organic. So once in a while, even now, I step back and say, What is my painting telling me about what I'm learning and what I'm going through? That was, wow, yeah, pretty evident, yes.
Laura Arango Baier:Oh, man, that is so cool, because, like you said, it really goes hand in hand with what you said. You know, artists were such sensitive people, usually very sensitive people. And I think because of that, we don't realize how we you know, when we paint and we express our strokes and everything, like, it's so obvious afterward for us, it's like, Oh, I like this image for some reason, you know, it's pulling me in, or, like, I'm really attracted to this one topic, and then suddenly you look at it later, like that, and it was like, oh, that's what's going on.
Shanna Kunz:Oops. You know, yes, sometimes it's not just the tree that you're attracted to. Sometimes it's the way the tree sits in the environment, and whether they're dominant or submissive or with their relationships around them, and that it's us, that's us. So I do find when I'm teaching and somebody is particularly drawn to a genre or a subject matter, I have them brainstorm pretty frequently. What is it about this that you love? And I don't want you just to say, I love how the light hits on it the light and shadow. I want to hear. Really figure out, brainstorm why you love that exactly what you love about that subject matter. It's kind of interesting because it does change their work. And it it isolates. It goes down and isolates to small things that they didn't, weren't even aware of before. So it's fun,
Laura Arango Baier:yeah, yeah. And I'd like that, because it really gives clarity, also to the person, to really self reflect, which I think it's, it's, it's one of those things, especially early on, where you can be attracted to many, many, many different types of paintings, many different artists, and then it's very easy to get caught up in, like, how you just said, like, oh, well, I just think it looks pretty. Versus, no, this speaks to my soul, right? Like it's the more exact and the more clear you are about. The thing that attracts you to a specific piece, I find the easier it is to really find your path as an artist you know
Shanna Kunz:completely really, what is that thing? What? What is that obsession about and analyze, that obsession where pretty pictures one could probably say mine are pretty pictures, but my intention through them is anything but pretty pictures. But the end result is somebody might walk by and say, Look, that's a pretty picture. It's not it's just not how I feel about it. I can see the grit. I can see this search. I can see the failure. I can see everything in it, but hopefully this Orchestration by the time your last 20 minutes, your last 10% of your painting is in there. You can see that search above and beyond a pretty picture,
Laura Arango Baier:yes, absolutely, and not that there's anything wrong in the end with a pretty picture. But, and I don't just see your work as pretty pictures, I also really catch the moodiness of it, because they do feel very moody and different moods too, right? But I find like, you know, like when I refer to, like, a pretty picture, which, again, there's nothing wrong with it. It's just a picture that doesn't really tell you too much about it's just presenting this thing that looks nice and doesn't there's no depth. It's very surface level. And I find that, especially early on, and that was my experience as well. You can look at an image, he's like, Wow, that's so pretty. I wish I could do that. But then later on, when you grow right as an artist, you look back on you're like, think I grew out of that phase. You know?
Shanna Kunz:Yes, I do know. And it's kind of, that's kind of why I am not expressly a plein air painter. I have done that before, and I've gone out and done shows out of state and from one coast to the other, Catalina Island to Atlanta, Georgia and New Bern. And I enjoy going out and finding new areas. But to paint, but it kind of is not my style. My My style is more find that thing I am obsessed about that has triggers many, many memories for me, my paintings are about memories of my family. Aunts, uncles, cousins, my mom, my dad. My dad raised three of his little brothers because his father passed away, so my uncles were more like my brothers, and we would just do these camp camping trips and fishing trips, and those memories are so huge for me that when I'm doing work, that I want to be meaningful, that I really want to be art, not paintings, but art. I'll go back to those memories. I'll go back to those places that I know inside and out, and really expound on what I know about that nature. You know, I'm my dad, working for the Forest Service. I'm pretty aware of Environment and Public Lands is a big deal for me, keeping our public lands so it's so much more than finding it pretty seen with color or brush stroke, and sometimes I feel a little insecure, because I don't just jump into a plein air piece and replicate what I see with using this, these great techniques and tools, I still go find the things that make my heart pattern. So even if I'm on a coast and there's an ocean to be painted, I'm probably the one looking for the trees in the swamp, you know, so that it still feels like it's me and not necessarily something with the general overall appeal that being said plein air is the best thing you can possibly do for taking color notes, compositional notes, your improves your drawing skills every time it's the technique in it is pretty exquisite, and it's really good to learn all those things. But when I'm creating for my galleries or for my shows or for myself, they're much more snapshots of who I am.
Laura Arango Baier:If you've been enjoying the podcast and also want to ask our guests live questions, then you might want to join our monthly BoldBrush live webinars, where our guest artists discuss marketing tips, share inspiring stories and answer your burning questions in real time. Whether you're a seasoned painter or just starting your creative journey, this is your chance to connect, learn and spark new ideas, and whether you're stuck on a canvas or building your creative business, this is where breakthroughs happen. Don't miss out. Ignite your passion and transform your art practice by joining us. Our next BoldBrush Live Webinar is coming up on the fourth of December, with our special guest, Kevin McPherson, you can find a sign up link in the show notes at BoldBrush, we inspire artists to inspire the world, because creating art creates magic, and the world is currently in desperate need of magic. BoldBrush provides artists with free art marketing creativity and business ideas and information. This show is an example. We also offer written resources, articles and a free monthly art contest open to all visual artists. We believe that fortune favors the bold brush, and if you believe that too, sign up completely free at BoldBrush show.com that's B, O, L, d, b, r, U, S, H show.com the BoldBrush show is sponsored by Faso. Now more than ever, it's crucial to have a website when you're an artist, especially if you want to be a professional in your career. Thankfully, with our special ink faso.com forward slash podcast, you can make that come true and also get over 50% off your first year on your artist website. Yes, that's basically the price of 12 lattes in one year, which I think is a really great deal, considering that you get sleek and beautiful website templates that are also mobile friendly, e commerce print on demand in certain countries, as well as access to our marketing center that has our brand new art marketing calendar. And the art marketing calendar is something that you won't get with our competitor. The Art marketing calendar gives you day by day, step by step, guides on what you should be doing today right now, in order to get your artwork out there and seeing by the right eyes so that you can make more sales this year. So if you want to change your life and actually meet your sales goal this year, then start now by going to our special link, faso.com forward slash podcast. That's F, A, S, o.com, forward slash podcast, yeah, yeah. I mean, the whole purpose of being an artist, in my opinion, or pursuing this career, right? Because it's for for, I think for many of us, it's not really a career, it's a lifestyle, it's a compulsion, it's I this is who I am, type of thing, and it's great to make money from it. We do it for ourselves.
Shanna Kunz:Mostly it is a compulsion. My husband will say to me, do you ever turn that brain off from art? No, we even sleep it. We even dream it. Everything, everything we look at. Can't even watch a show without looking for the art or really great compositions, right? It's, it's, it is a compulsion, and it that the compulsion to get better and better and better is real. So I'm at this point in my life, I sit and think, Okay, how many years do I have left? How much growth can I experience in that in that period of time so and luckily, so far, I meet my milestones, my personal milestones, but I still have a long ways to go to get where I want to be. Yeah.
Laura Arango Baier:I mean, it was Michelangelo who said, in his 80s, I'm still learning, you know, it's a lifetime and more. You know, we're completing this. What I like to say is, like we're holding this torch, bearing this torch from our predecessors, right, the old masters and everyone who's come before us with painting, it's almost like we're continuing the work that they started, and then there's always more. So it's, yeah, it's a lifetime. I
Shanna Kunz:I love that thought that Aaron and I took a workshop one time from an artist named Dan Pinkham. He is just an exquisite color colorist, tonalist, believe it or not, and he was talking about how important the lineage is from who you learn from and how you pass that down. And it's really quite beautiful to think of it that way. Instead of it being a bloodline, it is a visual lineage that we're learning from and passing it down. And I love I love that thought. And I love to think that twatman is one of my very favorites, and Whistler, I love to think that I've studied them enough and researched their work enough that maybe I'm glean. From them, something that goes into my work that then I pass on to to the students that take for me. And I paint a lot. I I have a lot. I have a really nice large collection of art books. And sometimes I'll just like, grab a book like Dwight, try on and say, Okay, I think you're going to paint with me today. And so I'll just what I like to do is just go through the pages and absorb their work. Not necessarily pick out the details, but absorb their work. Put the book down, and then go paint after a session of absorb, absorption, you know. And I do find that it kind of, it transfers, it does, it relates and transfers,
Laura Arango Baier:yes, yeah. And I mean, it's also important to look at those paintings in that way, because they may, you know, a lot of those artists may no longer be with us anymore, but we can still, like you said, be students of their work. You can still be observers of their work and and what that's one of the reasons I really enjoy doing with master copies, for example, because you can look at the way that something was painted and really think, like, really think through their the brush strokes and be like, Wow. Okay, this is what this person was thinking at that moment, and this is how they push the stroke to describe this part of the nose, or that funny little spot where the planes change on the face and, you know, like around the eye or something, or even like, oh, the shift of value on the shadow of this branch of the tree, compared to, you know, the lit up bark and texture like, oh, there's so much to really glean from observing good paintings.
Shanna Kunz:There most certainly is. And every time we delve into why they do, why they did what they did and their work stood the test of time. It gives us permission to find out why we do what we do, and hopefully, if you do it well enough, maybe your work will spend the stand the test of time as well.
Laura Arango Baier:Yeah, yeah. And I remember you mentioned that to me that you really love to dig into the why, yes. Why did this person do this? Why were they like that with their work?
Shanna Kunz:Yes, and it's very interesting. It's, it's like this constant Art History movie playing in your head,
Laura Arango Baier:yeah, definitely, yeah. And
Shanna Kunz:you have to put it down, and then you have to be you, yeah.
Laura Arango Baier:I think it's also really fun to kind of like role play the artists as well. Like, hmm, what would I don't know, what would DaVinci do if he was put in this situation, or what would Shishkin do if he were looking at this image and we're thinking, Oh, this is, this might be how they might describe it. And I think that's another really cool sort of way to really change your hat as an artist and experiment and grow, because you're still you, right? You can't, obviously, you can't be DaVinci, because DaVinci was Vinci. Yeah, exactly. Pretend and learn anyway, which is really cool, yes. And then I also
Shanna Kunz:it's a very interesting career choice, that's for sure. It's never a dull moment.
Laura Arango Baier:Yeah, I like to say it's a gift that keeps on giving, because it's always going, always going since, you know, art imitates life and life continues. But yeah, and then I wanted to ask you, what was it like for you? You know, the moment when you became a full time artist? You know? What was it like balancing that time management?
Shanna Kunz:Well, I would love to tell you that I'm good with time management, but I'm not I like, I like I said about my husband, I am working pretty much all the time, and if I'm not painting, I'm on the computer doing the business aspect of it, because that's a big part of building a career. Or I'm manipulating photos, images, paintings on procreate. I love to use procreate to problem solve and drawing thumbnails, like my husband told me one time, I needed to find a hobby, because my career, my art, was my career, and it's all i. Did, and you need to find a hobby. And I thought and thought for a while, and I came up with all my with my drawing box and paper, and said, My hobby is going to be going back to drawing. And he's like, not quite what I was talking about. It's all art related, right? Yeah, yes, it is a such a way of life, and it is also some of the very most beautiful people I've ever met in my life. I have so many dear, dear, dear, beautiful painting friends. Um, it's getting to the point I have a couple childhood friends that I've held on to for years and years. But other than those, that few little handful, almost every friend I have is an is an artist, because we are a tribe, and we get each other absolutely, yeah,
Laura Arango Baier:and it's funny because, you know, I'm also not against, you know, having a hobby, right? I mean, I do have, like, other hobbies that aren't painting, but when it's, you know, when it's something, you really enjoy painting, right? It it doesn't really feel like work, you know, it feels like, I don't know, like a fun puzzle or game that, yeah, you know, you get some money from it sometimes, and you sure you struggle sometimes, because it's not easy, but it keeps pulling you back in, and it gives you energy, gives you that reason to wake up in the morning and run over to your studio and look at your painting that you did yesterday. So you can be like, Okay, now what am I going to fix? You know,
Shanna Kunz:four in the morning, sneaking down into the studio, turning on the light, just so you can get a fresh look. I need a fresh eye. Yeah, crazy. It's wonderful. It's a it is a beautiful way of life. We look for the beauty and everything, and we look for the complexities and the subtleties and all the sophistication of things in a different way than the world looks at it. So I love that. Yeah,
Laura Arango Baier:I totally agree. I mean, it's like when I talk to a non artist, I always tell them this, because it's just like you said. It's like you never when you're not really, you know, trained, or you don't see it right, you don't really think about the way things actually look, right? Because your your brain is processing things around you so that it's taking up the least amount of energy. So someone might be like, Yeah, of course, I know what my lamp looks like. It's like, okay, don't look at it and draw it for me. Let's see how much you remember about your lamp that it's been in the corner of your room for 20 years, you know. And they see it every day, but they don't look not that it's a bad thing. Like I said, you know, that's how our brain processes things. But as artists, I feel like we have this obsession, like you said, with really catching that nuance. Like looking at a tree, and someone would be like, yeah, it's a tree. And you might be like, but look at that in the tree right the gnarled branch, the semi fallen leaf that's hanging and flapping the the underside of the leaves having that beautiful warmth, and then the top leaves having a coolness because of the color of the sky, right? Like there's so much more going on,
Shanna Kunz:even down to what kind of root system does this tree have? How close is it to the water? Yeah, they, they're, they have so much personality to them because of the type of tree they are and how they were shaped by the wind or the snow or, yeah, it's, it's really pretty amazing. I think that we certainly don't look at things on a surface level in the way that a non artist probably looks at things, not not all people. It's been kind of fun to be driving with my husband, and he'll go look how much purple is in that mountain. And when we first got together, he didn't notice any of those things, and now he's noticing. So that's, that's really nice,
Laura Arango Baier:yes, yeah. It's, uh, it's almost like, you know, through your work and also through who you are, you're really pulling people into having a totally different perspective about the world around them. And it's beauty,
Shanna Kunz:yes, yeah, pretty incredible, yeah.
Laura Arango Baier:And then, speaking of, you know, connecting with people, I know that you have a newsletter. Do you mind telling us how? You know, there's an artist out there who wants to start, you know, building their newsletter. Email List. What would you recommend? Well.
Shanna Kunz:A career is built one relationship at a time, and that newsletter keeps that relationship communication open, and I take it very seriously. I don't like to bombard with newsletters, because I feel like I'm actually walking into their home when I'm sending one out. So I it, I try to, sometimes I go back in in and even put personal things on each each one, something I know about them, that art is the coolest thing in that, that the energy and the expression of one soul and the energy and expression of another soul come together on this tangible object, a three dimensional object. And what I have found is these two people, me, myself being one of them and my clients have so many more commonalities than just the painting, but that painting is what has brought us together. And there's something in her, there's a life force in that three dimensional object that they can feel, that I've put out, and it just it. It it draws like attracts like it. It draws people together. So those relationships are very, very important to me. They've spent their hard earned money on supporting me and getting some purchasing something that has made a huge difference in my life, I want to keep that connection alive, and the newsletter is by far the best, the best, least invasive way I can find to do that. And I love that Faso. It used to be very, very difficult to develop that newsletter database. When I first started, I did a lot of outdoor art shows, and I they it was a very intentional thing. I would do an art show wherever there was a gallery that I wanted to be in and set up the work, and then go to the gallery and say, I have a body of work if you'd like to come see it. I don't intend on doing these outdoor art shows for very long. This is a way to get my portfolio out, and that's how I got into the galleries that I got into. But all the meantime, I'm doing these shows and Invitational shows I'm taking emails and talking to people and writing notes and reminding myself things about them, and that the relationship so that I don't forget, and the newsletter is the best way to to reach out to them, and when, when BoldBrush, when Faso, came on, I just thought I'd died and gone to heaven. It was the best way to be able to keep up with people and let them be able to see what I was up to. So it's a it is such a magnificent tool for an artist and their collector base galleries don't tell you who purchases your paintings, so it has to be grown organically, and I've got a pretty decent database Now, and after 30 years, I better. And yeah, I don't overdo it. I probably should do more than what I do, but like I said, it does feel like I'm walking in their door. And when somebody unsubscribes for me, I feel like somebody just closed a door in my face. It makes me sad, and I have to I think, okay, am I doing this right? When the actual truth of it is probably they just get so many emails every day that they're going through and getting rid of emails. But, you know, we tell ourselves stories,
Laura Arango Baier:yeah, yeah. And again, that goes back to us being very sensitive creatures. And you know, it's hard to not take things personally, but I agree oftentimes, when I unsubscribe from from an email, that is because, oh gosh, I'm overwhelmed, and not so much, you know, has very little to do with the person writing the email. Little,
Shanna Kunz:yeah, I probably get at least 250 emails a day. So yeah, I I can understand why people would do that. But, oh yeah, but then I have, then I have people who, every time I send an E newsletter out, send me an email back and start a conversation, and we do a little little chatting. So it, it is a really great way to reach out.
Laura Arango Baier:Yeah. For sure, for sure, and then you know, in terms of building that network, you know, what do you find has been one of the most helpful ways that you've grown your network. As an artist,
Shanna Kunz:evil necessity for growing my name has been social media, of course, and for my generation that's been that was an extremely difficult process self promoting, because that that is not a humble thing to do. I it. It embarrasses me because of my generation. I think, I think younger people now are very much more comfortable in front of a camera and comfortable talking about themselves. It took me a while and but it is something that you have to do as an artist to start building. And it's always a good thing to reach out once in a while and say, if you feel like what I post, join my email newsletter and send them to your site so it it is something that has to be done organically. I would never suggest buying a list of people, because I just don't think it works. I um, just takes time. It just takes time building that building that base. But Faso has such a beautiful design to their newsletter. It's so easy to put together. It can be done in an you can put together a really great newsletter in an hour with the templates and and everything that you guys provide.
Laura Arango Baier:Yeah, I agree the newsletter building, yeah is so easy. I've also done it a bunch of times, but I need to get better at sending newsletters all that way, yeah, it's always like, Yeah, I'll do it later. I'll do it later. And then it's been like, two years. And I think the other underrated thing that artists don't do enough of, I think, or should do more of, if they do some of it, is in person, networking, right?
Shanna Kunz:Yeah, oh, yes, absolutely. And those sometimes are going to events, going to community events that you all are familiar with your work. We have an art option here in Ogden that supports our Art Center, and it's a that's a fantastic networking tool. Most of my work is not sold in my hometown. Most of my work goes out of state, but sometimes it's just good to let the people that you started with. Be aware that you're still out there, you're still doing it, and you're still successful, and maybe their paintings got some value. You know,
Laura Arango Baier:absolutely, yeah,
Shanna Kunz:another thing I don't use enough, and should, but you guys have the really nice option for it is the blogs. I think that the blogs, for somebody who's really just getting started, they can be more personal, they can be quite direct and soul searching, and you can bear your vulnerabilities, and people who read them want to read them. You know, they have to go looking for it. They have to really want to know. But most people, when they buy paintings, want do want to know the artist, and do want to know why they do what they do. So those blog posts can be really, really great for that.
Laura Arango Baier:Yeah, it really does give, you know, the reader who cares, a really good kind of, like, brain picking session. You know, if you make, like, oh, well, you know, this day that I painted this landscape, this is what was going on. And this is the kind of, like, you're really pulling them into the experience as well. Yes, you know one of those options of, like, writing a blog post. And I think the other really nice thing about that feature of having the blog on on the website, is people can comment as well, yes, yes. And then that starts conversation, which is really fun, too, and builds that online community, which has become a lot more common. And I know that that's something that you've been doing also with your mindful art mentoring.
Shanna Kunz:Yeah, that. I think that, especially in in the the time that we live in right now, I think community is more important than it's ever been and not not connected on the phone. I. But community really like minded people, supportive people that we can build each other up instead of what has been happening over the last, I don't know, 10 years of division. And I think it's up to us artists to really help the world become a more beautiful place to live in. And so that is the mindfulness and that community is a really big part of why I started my mindful art mentoring process, because I got, I've got 30 something years of obsessive knowledge that I would like to share, and I would really like to build that community of support for people. And it makes me so happy when my students that are in completely different parts of the country start becoming friends and supporting each other, because we all need those art friends. You know, that's a that's a really important thing I have. Elizabeth Robbins lives right next door to me. There's an alley between our houses. So we paint together. We've done all kinds of adventures together. And then Laurie McNee, I have known her for 30 years. We know each other inside and out. We've been through many of the same personal experiences, and we know how each other thinks about art. So I can ask a critique from Lori, and she's going to give me that critique according to what I want to do with the painting. I can critique her work and go what I know, what you want out of this painting. Maybe you can get here. It takes it beyond technique. It takes it to the soul of something and having those wonderful friends is so important. I don't know if you've heard or not, but we have a group. There are eight of us, and we are the wild women paint the West. And we've done three show, three adventures and two shows. And then we have shows coming, and we have a museum show coming. Those ladies are just the bomb. They are all so wonderful, every one of them. And I just love that. I love that we can build those communities.
Laura Arango Baier:Yes, yeah. And again, it's, it's one of those things where, when you're an artist, it's so easy to just hide in your studio and do your work, and, you know, not really get much social interaction happening. And I think it's so undervalued, right, to have a really great artist friend that you trust who can look at your work also, and you can look at their work, and you can have a dialog about, oh, I think this is how I figured out how to paint this thing, but I'd see how you did it, and I think that makes a lot a lot of sense to me. Or, oh, what color did you use over there? Or, you know, there's so much growth that can happen when you're around other artists. And I think it's so cool, too, that you guys are doing shows and like going around and I think that's one of those things to aim for, for sure,
Shanna Kunz:it started with trailers. It started with Susie Baker has a little trailer. Lori has a little trailer. I have a little trailer. There are little paint mobiles. And we thought, let's just, let's just start getting out and doing some adventures and seeing what work comes from it. And before you know it, we had galleries saying, we want, we want to show your work. And then eventually a museum show, which will be more announced a little bit later, but it's really fun. Every one of us is so completely and entirely different. Our styles are different, our mediums are different, and that's what makes it so beautiful. And we're all dear, dear, dear friends, so
Laura Arango Baier:that's like a dream come true. It's like a bunch of friends, just like road tripping and painting.
Shanna Kunz:Ah, yeah, it is so fun. We have such a good time. A little bit of wine at night might be involved.
Laura Arango Baier:There's no problem with that, you know. It helps you loosen up. And then, yeah, there's nothing like, you know, bonding with friends over a campfire or, you know, a couple drinks and a good meal. Yeah, that's
Shanna Kunz:hard, hard work. It is hard work. It is decision making, decision making, decision making, all day long. Um. And not that we don't absolutely love what we do, but it is still very hard work. And to add that little bit of joy when the hard work is over is it's just a celebration of the day. It's really great, really wonderful, awesome.
Laura Arango Baier:And then, do you have any final advice for someone who really wants to make a living as an artist, first and foremost,
Shanna Kunz:never give up. Never give up. Never give up. Never give up. There is going to be so many times that you think, I can't do this anymore. Never give up. You just keep showing up at the easel, even when it's hard, keep showing up at the easel. I like to say that if I can do this, and I can make a career, anybody can, if they're willing to put the work in, and just pure raw talent will get you this far, but the determination and the confidence and perseverance that's what makes an art career, and most of us have an art career because We can't imagine doing another job to pay the mortgage payment so we find a way to make art our career so that we can continue doing it. And it's a it is a world that is rich, not always financially rich, but financially okay, but rich in every other aspect. So I definitely encourage it and never give up.
Laura Arango Baier:Yes, yes, and I agree that it is an enriching and fulfilling lifestyle.
Shanna Kunz:Yes, very much. It's, it is, what? Where else do you get to go, put your hours in, at a job, looking at beautiful things, searching your soul, putting it out to a canvas with wonderful friends and wonderful people. It's just the best.
Laura Arango Baier:It is, it's, it's almost mythical and magical. Like every artist that I've interviewed who, of course, everyone that I've interviewed loves his career, always says I'm so lucky and grateful that this is what I can do, because it's so fulfilling and nurturing.
Shanna Kunz:It is so fulfilling, it does destroy that organized side of your life. So it's kind of nice when you're when you have a significant other that does that part of life for you, because the more you paint, the less you do that, the less the laundry gets done, the less you know. But I happen to have that supportive person. My husband helps. He makes panels, not only for me. He makes the gator board linen panels. He makes them for other artists as well. He does all my shipping. He does all my framing. He does everything for me. So all I do is paint.
Laura Arango Baier:Yeah, it does help to have a studio assistant slash business partner when you're an artist, yeah, yes, yeah. And then I wanted to ask you where, oh, do you have any upcoming shows, exhibitions that you would like to promote? I do.
Shanna Kunz:I have my next show is at Mockingbird gallery in Bend, Oregon, and it is in January. I have to have the work done by Christmas. And then I have, I teach in Mississippi in February, and I teach in Scottsdale in March. I have a show at the Maynard Dixon foundation in Mount Carmel, Utah in September, and I teach at the booth Museum in October. So it's a busy, it's a busy, busy, busy year. There's always something to look forward to, and keeping my gallery supplied with with work. So wow,
Laura Arango Baier:yes, you already have your 2026 laid out
Shanna Kunz:seven in summer, 2028 Yeah, it's, it's not now to challenge the memory, to remember it all,
Laura Arango Baier:yeah, the hard thing, yeah, but thankfully you do. I'm sure you do put all these events in your website. Which do you mind telling us where people can see more of your work? So for
Shanna Kunz:my art and my and my in person workshops, Shannon Coons, i. Um.com, is my my Faso website, the my online course, is a little more difficult to navigate because it's the course is it's built into the platform, and that is Shannon coons Fine Art com, or mindful art mentoring.com. Pretty easy to find. I'm pretty easy to find, though. Find me on every social media just about so yeah.
Laura Arango Baier:And then I will also include all of your links in the show notes, so people can go in, jump in and thank you, gorgeous work, of course, inside of your newsletter. Yeah, awesome. And then thank you so much, Shanna for the wonderful conversation,
Shanna Kunz:and thank you the service that you guys are doing for artists, so that we don't have to learn how to make our own websites. And yet, with my Faso website, I can fine tune the color. I can fine tune so many things to make it what I want it to be without having to learn how to make websites. And it has been a game changer for me, and I've recommended it to every student I've ever had, every artist that doesn't have a website. I just think you guys are doing an amazing service for artists that just want to paint. I think it's it's really wonderful. And your BoldBrush, your daily stream and your letters, really do bring in a lot of people. So that's a wonderful way of organically growing your own database, too. So I like to thank Fine Art Studio online and BoldBrush.
Laura Arango Baier:Well, thank you for being you know someone who uses it and really enjoys it, because that does. That is what our mission is as a company. It's to give our artists more time to stay in the studio and not worry about, Oh no, my website. I have to build it or, oh now I have to send a newsletter through this other thing, it's all integrated and of course,
Shanna Kunz:and the customer service is excellent, absolutely excellent.
Laura Arango Baier:Thank you so much. Shannon, you're welcome. Yeah. And again, thank you for being here and giving us some of your precious time. I know you probably have to get busy painting for that show in December.
Shanna Kunz:This has been really fun, though. Thank you. Thank you for thinking of me.
Laura Arango Baier:Yes, of course. Thank you to everyone out there for listening to the podcast. Your continued support means a lot to us. If you've enjoyed the episode, please leave a review for the podcast on Apple podcast Spotify, or leave us a comment on YouTube. This helps us reach others who might also benefit from the excellent advice that our guests provide. Thank you.