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The BoldBrush Show
164 Sandra Duran Wilson — Play and Surrender
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On today's episode we sat down with Sandra Duran Wilson, an abstract painter, sculptor, author, and scientist based in Santa Fe. Sandra discusses how her dual upbringing among scientists and artists, plus early plein air experiences with her great aunt, shaped her experimental, curiosity-driven approach to art. She explains that creating is “like breathing” and that her artistic voice emerged over thousands of paintings, influenced by her background in cognitive science and early fascination with cellular structures seen through a microscope. She also discusses how intention, story, and lived experience transform craft into art, emphasizing that story can be conveyed through color, texture, layers, and emotion rather than literal representation. Sandra describes her book Awakening Your Creative Soul and related “soul spark” exercises as a manual for weekly play and experimentation, rooted partly in her years working with people in addiction and trauma recovery. Sandra also gives us tips about quieting the inner critic, using strategies like “muting” it, keeping a playful side canvas, working quickly with timers, and embracing imperfection and surrender—especially for perfectionist oriented artists. Sandra also shares how she built a career as a full-time artist through outdoor shows, teaching, writing, and relationships with collectors. Finally, Sandra highlights her upcoming Ireland workshop and a long-term installation project wrapping burned trees in painted canvases to respond to climate-change-driven wildfires.
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So don't be afraid to call yourself an artist. Just you get to choose what kind of artist you get to be. Go do what motivates you? Follow that voice. My voice has changed. My direction of where I'm going reinvent yourself. Being true, I think, is a good part of it, and I think if you're true, you might find that happiness.
Laura Arango Baier:Welcome to the BoldBrush show where we believe that fortune favors the gold brush. My name is Laura Baier, and I'm your host. For those of you who are new to the podcast, we are a podcast that covers art marketing techniques and all sorts of business tips specifically to help artists learn to better sell their work. We interview artists at all stages of their careers, as well as others who are in careers tied to the art world. In order to hear their advice and insights. On today's episode, we sat down with Sandra Duran Wilson, an abstract painter, sculptor, author and scientist based in Santa Fe, New Mexico, Sandra discusses how her dual upbringing among scientists and artists, plus early plein air experiences with her great aunt shaped her experimental curiosity driven approach to art. She explains that creating is like breathing, and that her artistic voice emerged over 1000s of paintings influenced by her background in cognitive science and early fascination with cellular structures seen through a microscope. She also discusses how intention, story and lived experience transform craft into art, emphasizing that story can be conveyed through color, texture, layers and emotion rather than literal representation. Sandra describes her book awakening your creative soul and related soul spark exercises as a manual for weekly play and experimentation, rooted partly in her years working with people in addiction and trauma recovery, Sandra also gives us tips about quieting the inner critic, using strategies like muting it, keeping a playful side canvas, working quickly with timers and embracing imperfection and surrender, especially for perfectionist oriented artists. Sandra also shares how she built a career as a full time artists through outdoor shows, teaching, writing and relationships with collectors. Finally, Sandra highlights her upcoming Ireland workshop and a long term installation project, wrapping burned trees in painted canvases to respond to climate change driven wildfires. Welcome Sandra to the BoldBrush show. How are you today?
Sandra Duran Wilson:I'm doing great, Laura, thank you. Thanks for inviting me to the show.
Laura Arango Baier:Yeah, thank you for being here. You're actually I'm so happy to say our first abstract artist, I have been researching your work because I think your work is very beautiful. It's expressive, it's atmospheric, as you know, is expected of abstract but I really love the personal touches that you have through your work. It's very It has an ethereal quality to it, and the composition, and I think that's also why I wanted to bring you on, is precisely because I find that abstract art is extremely composition heavy, a lot more than people might expect or realize. So I am so excited to pick your brain also, besides that, you're a scientist, which is also really cool. Oh, man. But before we dive more into your work, do you mind telling us a bit about who you are and what you do?
Sandra Duran Wilson:Okay? Well, as you said, my name is Sandra Duran Wilson, and and I am a painter primarily, but I also do sculptural work and installation work, but primarily painting. I also am an author of six art technique books on acrylic painting. I've written for acrylic Artist Magazine, and way back in the day, several other magazines that are no longer around, I had monthly columns, and I'm a teacher, although I'm finishing up that career pretty soon, just to focus more on my own work, and I've been teaching People for 25 years, both in person and online. I have a YouTube channel which has over 100 videos on it that it's really geared toward just ideas for people that are just starting, or even someone who's looking for something weird and quirky, because my background Lynn's, you know, kind of I love to experiment. And so in a video, you might find me just going off track and oh, well, let's just try this and see what happens. So that's what I do. And I live in Santa Fe, New Mexico, and it's a very beautiful place high up in the mountains. A lot of people think we're in the desert, but we're not. We have snow outside the window right now, and can go skiing, and it's a very beautiful place, very inspirational place to live. And artists have been coming here because of the. Light. We are at 7000 feet altitudes, so we have these incredibly blue skies and beautiful light to influence us. So that's me, awesome. Yeah.
Laura Arango Baier:And I love that you said that you love to experiment, because, of course, you know, being scientists, artists, I think that's one of the things about painting that I think a lot of people don't explore as much, which is experimentation, one because it's it can be scary, since it's unexpected results, but I think that's one of the the things that a lot of artists should be doing a little bit more, is experimenting, at least on their free time. But I want to dive into your background a little bit more. So do you mind telling us a bit about when you began to follow the path of the artist?
Sandra Duran Wilson:Well, I think I have to say that I always did, just because of the family I grew up in. And on. Half the family, they were scientists, doctors. The other half, they're an artist. So for me, did it was a combination of the two. Not a lot of times people will say, Oh, you're good at art, but you're not good at math or science. And so that kind of gets stuck in people's brains that, you know, oh, I can't do that. I can't be good at math, I can't be good at science, but I like to draw. Well, it's, you know, drawing is science in a sense. So I had my first oil painting set at the age of six, and I would go plan air painting with my great aunt, Santa Duran, and we painted. I grew up in the border of Mexico, and so we would go out and just paint, and then she would help my brothers and I, we would do little landscapes and still lives. And it was, it was just a lot of fun, and but as an artist, as a career, it was probably as a teenager when I started. And I've had a lot of different ways of art making as a living, but when I was a teenager, I think the first thing I did there was something I wanted some like a bag or some kind of clothes. And my mom was like, No, I'm not buying that for you. So I said, Well, I'm going to make it. And so I it was a leather and so I got the leather, and I did the stitching and the bead work on it. And before you know it, my friends wanted something, and then, you know, a little shop wanted something. So I was making and selling accessories, and then that led to later on to stone cutting sculpture, then silversmithing and jewelry, on and on and on. So yeah, I've had other jobs during that time too, but I've always done art.
Laura Arango Baier:Wow, I love that the there's so much emphasis in handcraft because, you know, I, I like to think that at its core, you know, being an artist like a in general, I think you're a crafts person. And then it becomes art when it I guess it transcends just an object that is useful, right? It's like, Oh, this isn't just, like a belt. This is beautiful belt, right? It's a belt that is made with a specific stitch that gives the specific quality. It isn't just, you know, oh, I bought this painting print at, I don't know Michael's, which nothing wrong with that, but it's a little bit different when it's made by human through their hands and their expression and their lived experience. I think that's what really elevates handcrafts. Nothing wrong with handcraft. I think handcraft is amazing and beautiful, and I am also a very crafty person, so I can relate.
Sandra Duran Wilson:I think the intention of Art Is it art? It comes from your purpose. I mean, you're the person creating. I was just at a museum show yesterday, and it had to do with South African telephone wire weaving. So it started out as an essential way of during apartheid, many of the people were put into places where they had to work and they were not allowed their own belongings. So they were taken they were personalized, like a mug or something that they used every day, and telephone wire was something that they could go scavenge and find. So you take that it's an, you know, you're basically repurposing, recycling art or materials, excuse me, then you elevate it to something beyond a. Just craft. It becomes something of who that person is. It gives their voice a place out in the world that will last past them. And if you look at art in that sense, I mean, there's so many different forms of art. You know, we were talking earlier about ancient art, things that we see left in the world. Many of those things were just maybe murals on a wall that were decorative or instructional. So I think you know to come back full circle to what is art. I mean, craft. You definitely have to have the craft of something. You know, an elephant can take its tail and make a painting, so to speak. And I've seen this at art shows. But is that art, or is it just happenstance? I mean, for the person who's going to pay a lot of money for it, I guess it's art, but what is your relationship with it? And I think what is art becomes a very personal question and answer,
Laura Arango Baier:yes, yes, very well stated. I totally agree. And actually this very seamlessly brings me to a very good question that I think, I think it's a question that has many different answers for many different people, and that is, why do you create?
Sandra Duran Wilson:For me, personally, I create because it's like breathing. I have to, you know, it's, it's just something I've always, always done, whether, you know, as a child, as a teenager, moving on, and even, even when I was doing other making jewelry, I always thought of my my jewelry as miniature sculptures, and I always wanted to take them and make them really large, but metal is expensive, and, you know, it's 20 something years old at the time, and I couldn't afford to do that, but it was always a way for me to express my view of the world. And I think really deep inside. The reason I create is to make sense of my view of the world, because sometimes it's like a, you know, it's not a normal view. Most artists don't see the world as as other people do. And I've, I've seen some like little cartoons or memes where somebody might see red, blue and green, and an artist is going to see 30 different shades of that. And we just, we see the world in a different way. And as a as a scientist, I see the layers. I mean, my first abstract painting was done when I was six years old, looking through my dad's microscope at cellular level. So I'm painting the cells. I'm painting I think it was a leaf or something, and so I'm seeing the, you know, the structure. So when I look at like a forest, I see the trees, but I also see in my mind, what makes up beliefs, what makes up art, what makes up the earth? And I see all of these webs of interconnectedness, and that is, I think why I create is to make sense of that world so to kind of draw other people into it.
Laura Arango Baier:And I think you mentioned there something very important, which is, you know your vision, right, the way you see the world. And I think that's something it's very interesting when you think about it, because that requires you know the vision, right? It requires self awareness to know what your vision is, of course, and that what's funny is, I find that it's a little bit like that transition between early childhood to maybe like later childhood, teenage hood, where it feels somewhat like you're emerging it doesn't. It's like a slow emergence into consciousness, rather than, Oh, I'm awake now, at least for I don't know, maybe someone out there does feel that I suddenly woke up, type of feeling. But I feel like that's how artistic vision kind of is, and then developing it, or even noticing it. I think that's one of the harder aspects at first, because, interestingly, I think that that's that leads to artistic voice eventually. So I wanted to ask you, actually, how, how have you developed or noticed your own vision and turned that artistic vision into what became your voice? As an artist?
Sandra Duran Wilson:Well, I often get asked by my students is, you know, if they're just starting out, how do I develop an artistic voice? And my simple answer to them is, you paint a lot, or you draw a lot, or you sculpt, you know, whatever your medium is you do it a lot. And I remember hearing the saying, after you've made 1000 paintings, then you start to figure out what you're doing. And when I was first starting out and I heard that, I was like, Oh my gosh, you know, that's crazy. But now that I'm past 1000 paintings, I'm absolutely understand what that means, because even as even as much as I try and maybe do something a little different, my voice is like my voice, it's not going to Change. And it has gotten that way from just painting a lot. I don't care if I'm print making or doing acrylic, or doing encaustic or sculpture, this vision in my mind is still coming through. And you said something earlier, that is is very it's developmental, and the way the brain develops. As my final degree in science was in cognitive science, how we learn and develop and so that age from, you know, basically around two years old, the children draw the big headed people. And that is true all over the world, no matter the culture. Then as the brain develops, they begin to change that self awareness, as you said, Laura, and it, you know, they begin to be aware of things outside of themselves and other people. There was a very wonderful study, I cannot recall the woman's name. It was back in the 60s in San Francisco, she followed children for a very, very long time, from early childhood all the way up, I think, until about 12 in drawing in art, she collected their art, and around the age of nine, most kids stopped drawing. And what happens at the age of nine is you develop, you start to develop abstract reasoning. And they wanted something to be so realistic, if they couldn't draw the fire truck or the doll, or whatever they were, you know, the, you know, spaceship, whatever they were trying to draw, if they couldn't draw it. So realistically, they just gave up. And I think for a lot of artists, you get to a point where you're like, Okay, I want to draw this or develop this. And for me, it's an abstract artist. I mean, yes, I had years of training as a as a drafts person. You know, I know how to draw. I mean, look at Picasso. He was one of the best drawers there is. But then I wanted to go beyond that. I wanted to see what that's where my voice started to come in. So what is my voice trying to say without the apple sitting on the table. What is the feeling of the apple? And that's where abstraction comes in. And I think a lot of artists get to that point to where, okay, I want something more. I want to see beyond this, whether it's changing their style or changing their approach to art making,
Laura Arango Baier:yes, yes. And I love that you mentioned that you know that it takes time, right, that figuring it out, what it all means to you, how it comes through. Those are all so dependent on that, you know, act of just continuing to perform it. And I, I imagine all the nine year old kids who didn't, didn't draw that fire truck perfect, and they didn't give up, and we're like, Gosh, gosh darn it, I'm gonna do it no matter what. And I think that's, you know, the some of the artists like us who just stuck around and kept going because we just needed to continue. Like you said, it's like breathing. It's you know, like this is what comes naturally. And I think also that reminds me a bit of your book, which you mentioned to me last time, called awakening your creative soul. Because there's, you know, the this, you know, it's and it's so funny, because it's very much a scientific method. Now that I think about it, and speaking to you about it's like, of course, you know, you you have your hypothesis, you experiment, you get your conclusion, and then you repeat and maybe change. Change some stuff around in your variables, right? And eventually, of course, that leads to that artistic voice, but also primarily that creative act. You mentioned that it helps wake up the artistic spirit. Do you mind telling us a bit about your book, how it developed, and then a little bit of what you would recommend for artists out there.
Sandra Duran Wilson:Well, the book was, it was the sixth book, my last one. The first five were very specific techniques. One was acrylic painting for encaustic effects. The other one was all about transfers so on this book on awakening your creative soul. It was really, it was a way to get people to create every week. You know, this is was for people who are not in their studios. These were for people who have to, you know, do their other life skills, jobs, whatever, and then they have to carve out a little bit of time to feed that creativity. And so I also developed a little thing that went along with it. Was called mixed media soul sparks, which was how the YouTube channel started. And it was just, you know, here's 15 minutes. So follow along with this for 15 minutes, and it maybe it'll give you a little spark of inspiration. So every week there were 52 there are 52 chapters in the book, which is goes along with each week of the year. But just to jump back a little bit where some of the the ideas came from. I spent 10 years working in a residential treatment facility for addiction and trauma. Now I wasn't a therapist in that sense, but I got to and it wasn't an art therapist, but I was more of a guide for finding, for helping people find their spirit. And I would we had 13 acres of land. I take people out on the land. We do different things. Sometimes we do crafts, sometimes we do experiential stuff. It was just a way for them to tap into that part of their spirit that had been pressed down for so long. And so that's how some of the ideas made it into the book. Were things that I had developed over that decade, and people, you know, that really helped them in in some ways. And so I thought, Okay, well, let's take that idea and work with it. And some themes were like related to seasons. Others were just like meditation or self discovery and creating from that sense of place. Because I really believe that the creative process is it's it's not just what you create with your hands or your feet or your mouth or whatever you know it is you know, whether you're an actor or a painter, a singer, musician, it's your whole emotional, your mental, your spiritual, all of that goes into the creation of whatever you want to create. And if you're locked off from a part of that, if you're, you know, creating something very rigid, and you're not tapping into that soul Spark, then your art is not going to have a depth that it could have. And so I believe when you really dig deep, you find that depth, and that really gives you a stronger voice. So the book is, it's not a technical guide for painting by any means. It's, I would say it's a manual for play.
Laura Arango Baier:So I think that's perfect, because, again, you know, play an experiment are very similar, yes, yeah, yes, yes. I remember
Sandra Duran Wilson:an artist giving up. She was like, Oh, don't use that word play. Art is serious business. Like, okay, I can see that that means a lot to you, that it's serious business, but I don't know. I just don't want to go through my life all serious. I'm like, too much of a playful person, so I'd rather my worldview be more playful.
Laura Arango Baier:Yeah, and I think there's something else that comes attached to play that experimentation also has, which is curiosity. And I think that's what makes gosh, I feel like a lot of the inventions that have happened, you know, through history, have just been through sheer Cure. Curiosity, just someone who's like, how does that work? How can I make that work? It's like, every time I look at like ancient Roman technology, I'm always fascinated about the people who put their heads together to make it happen. And that's no different from, you know, someone wanting to develop their paintings, right? It's like, Oh, I wonder what happens if I switch out this red for a green, just opposite, right? How do I, how can I use that and make a similar image, and then suddenly you learn something new through that? But it is, I think, nurturing that curiosity that I think also really helps the artwork, right? Absolutely.
Sandra Duran Wilson:That's like, one of my taglines. It's like, I'm a curiosity instigator. And it's, it's like, to me, that's the whole, I guess, if I had to sum it up in one word, why do I create? And it's like, to entertain my curiosity is, it really is, because it's like, well, what would happen if, if I tried this? And, like I said, I'll do that a lot of time on camera when I'm filming for for YouTube videos, like, I go totally off track. Oh, let's try this, you know, and see what happens and and if it turns to mush. Well, now we know, how do I am a lot of times when I'm teaching in person, I'll really try and mess something up as much as I can, because I don't want people to think that, oh, every painting is like, oh, it just runs along this perfect course, oh, gosh, any artist knows that never happens. And I call it the the really ugly middle. Sometimes those teenage years can just get really nasty, and you have to work through that phase. And if you get to that place and you put something away and you don't look at it again, you're never going to learn how to really push beyond that. And I don't care what type of artwork you do, you're always going to have a painting that's going to push you, and you're going to have to say, Well, what do I do now? And if you're not willing to get down and dirty and messy with it, then you're losing an opportunity to really push beyond your comfort zone. And so I would rather just jump right into it right away. It's like, oh, let me just see how I can really mess this up. And the people are like, in the class, you know, they might, maybe I have a painting going there. Oh, that's so beautiful. I'm like, Okay, let's just mess it up. And they're like, Oh no, and it's like, okay, so now it's not precious anymore. Now I can really go for it, because I'm not so attached to the preciousness, and I'm not afraid to try something new. That's a big piece. Big, big lesson.
Laura Arango Baier:Yeah, it is huge lesson. Because you mentioned a few things there that, especially that last one, you know, kill your darlings. Yes, exactly. It's a it can be hard. And I think it's because oftentimes when we create something, and I'm sure it happens in abstract as much as it does in realism. When you make something and you have no idea how to replicate it or how it happened, right, you become obsessively protective of it, but oftentimes that holds you back even further from something even better, right? Because you've now limited your vision to this, this false sense of perfection, right? Perfection tends to hold us back from making something even cooler, because perfection is such a strange concept that is still limited by your own lived experiences, so you can never really attain it. But also, the other thing you mentioned there, which I think many of our listeners, including myself, struggle with, is when you're when you're doing these experiments right, when you're allowing yourself to mess things up, as you're saying, how, how how can you turn off the hyper critical voice that's always vigilant, that always wants you to No, no, what are you doing? You're messing it up. But like, how do you turn off that judgmental side? It's probably not perfectly possible, but how do you recommend it? Well, I
Sandra Duran Wilson:learned a long time ago to trust the process, because, you know, the being an abstract painter, in a way, it's different than being a realistic painter. I may start out with something realistic, and then I turn it into something abstract, or do. Other way around. There's a painting behind me, if you can't see, if you're just listening, but it is a painting I did based on a hike to the Grand Canyon. It's the one back there, and it was more the experience of the feeling. There's some little details in there about the petroglyphs that I saw, the night sky, some other elements. So I'm taking the trip. I'm taking the emotions. I'm taking everything from that journey, and I'm learning how to put it into a painting without it being realistic. So in my mind, I'm still seeing all the realistic elements, but I'm translating it to something different. I think when I'm translating, it's easier for me to turn that critic off, because I'm like, okay, critic, you're speaking Greek. I'm speaking Swahili over here, so don't even mess with me. Okay? And, and it's like, this is how I have to operate for a while now, later on, when I'm coming back to the painting and trying to finish it, you know, the critic may come up, but here's a here's a real important piece about the critic. The critic has a function, you know, I there's a the critic that is totally out of control that you know, goes back to your childhood, or, you know, that teacher that told you you could not paint. Why did you paint that tree blue? You know, that's the out of control. Critic, okay, that one you can learn to turn off. And one of the tricks I use with my students is, I said, Okay, think of it as a remote, remote control. Boom. You hit the mute button. So she's working at a table, and she drew this circle on the table, and I'm going around the room, and I come back over there, she's pounding on the table the button. She goes, that critic is really being strong right now. It's like, so she's muting the critic. So sometimes just a tangible tool like that a visual to mute that critic. But the other critic is, is that you need to listen to, it's like, well, that shape is really not working, and that color next to that color, maybe you should do something about that. So that's you have to have that critical part of analyzing your painting, but the out of control critic, yeah, not so much so muted.
Laura Arango Baier:Well, oh, I wish I were that easy to mute it. I'll have to try
Sandra Duran Wilson:this practice. Practice, yes, and sometimes just go, just get an old remote, and the actual physical act of holding it and pressing that button becomes a trigger in your mind. So it's, it's a matter of training your mind. It's doable. It just takes a little practice and turn your paintings upside down. Absolutely always turn them upside down. So then you you fix things sometimes just by turning them upside down in abstraction. Yeah.
Laura Arango Baier:Yeah. That's actually one of the big things they recommend sometimes for you know, if you're I mean, one of the things, obviously, is just step away for a little while. That's one of the big ones, because your eye gets tired, your brain gets tired, and it's good to see things with a fresh eye, especially the next morning. And that can either be a really good thing a really bad thing. It could be like, Oh, I think I did great today, and you go to your students suddenly, like, oh my gosh, what was I thinking? Or it can have the opposite reaction, which is like, Oh, this is terrible. And the next year, like, Huh, that's not so bad. Yeah, it's, you know, it happens either way. But, yeah, I think that critical voice that, you know, big, loud, mean voice, I think that's the really hard one to shut off when you're experimenting. Do you think maybe playing or trying to switch into like just focusing on play? You think that would also help a lot more with showing off that big guy.
Sandra Duran Wilson:I think it really that's a really good point. Is that, you know, if you shift the mindset to where I am not creating my masterpiece, here I am just experimenting. So my trip with that, and I do this still all the time in my studio, I always have a second panel or canvas around that. Maybe I'll have some leftover paint, and I just really don't like to waste things, so I would just go paint something on or I have some medium, I'll go make a texture over there, and I'm not attached to that piece. It's not like, I'm just like, throwing paint on it, piling it up. I'm actually putting it on with intention, but not like, am on my masterpiece over here. So this is my play piece, and you can do that if you're a realistic painter or if you're an abstract painter, and you're going to find that a lot of times, your play piece, it's going to be much better than your masterpiece, and that is a great way to train yourself to let go and because you can tell that critic, hey, look, I'm just a silver I'm playing over here. Don't, don't, don't be sticking your nose. Don't even look over here. You know, if you want to go do that, go to the other one. Leave me alone. I'm over here. And pretty soon you're going to find that, Oh, I love this technique. I'm going to do it more often, and then you find it's easier to make that switch.
Laura Arango Baier:That's pretty genius,
Sandra Duran Wilson:but it's your mindset you gotta trick. You gotta trick that, that critic. So there are ways to trick it. And then after you keep doing this over time, it gets less and less, you know. It's just like any kind of trauma, you know, over time, it starts to recede so but I think the you know, like speaking of looking at it as trauma, it's like, okay by confronting it, by saying, Okay, I see you, I hear you, but this is what I'm going to do about it. So this is what I choose to do about it. So it is an internal conversation that you have. And yes, so painting is a great way to work through issues.
Laura Arango Baier:It is. I mean, I think for many of us, we come to realize eventually, you know, when you're and, like you said, it doesn't really depend on the intent, right, and on that self awareness aspect of, you know, reflection, which I think many artists have it. Yeah, a lot of people that I've spoken to usually find that their work really does reflect their inner thoughts, whether it's inner turmoil, happiness, etc, and sometimes it might even show the opposite, which is funny. I recently interviewed an artist who said that she had the opposite reaction. It's almost like, you know, when she was upset, her work would reflect happiness instead, and then when she was happy, she would enjoy looking at the darker aspects. So it's like, oh yeah, that's pretty cool. But I really love that trick that you mentioned for that critical voice. Because I think, like I said, many artists struggle with that and having that outlet of like, Oh, I'm just gonna play over here. And then once that play, you know, works out. And I totally agree, I have noticed that sometimes my little doodles or fun stuff that I do on the side always have. It's almost like this, this like they have, like, more air to breathe. If that makes sense, it's if it's liberated, it's more free than like, the very exact like thing. Sometimes a color study, right? A lot of people who do plein air, for example, they'll say, like, their initial feeling of an area, and when they painted those brush strokes, oftentimes are much more alive than the final studio piece, which is very interesting.
Sandra Duran Wilson:Well, it's because they're, they're putting themselves into that, you know, that emotion at that time, and another great way to get that same alive feeling is to limit your time. I do. I started out doing a thing. It was like seven minute paintings. And of course, you know, obviously they're very small. You could have your palette all mixed up. And I found that I reduced it to anywhere under five, sometimes even three minutes, if I was doing a really quick, like you said, color landscape study or something, because I found that what happened between five and seven minutes is I started to get in there with those Little details, and it lost that freshness. So I recommend that, you know, to just start your studio day, or even if you've just got 10 minutes, you know, mix up a quick little palette and just, you know, keep a little notebook around, and it's just, it's really liberating to do that. Set a timer, okay, four or five minutes, and boom, you're done.
Laura Arango Baier:At BoldBrush, we inspire artists to inspire the world, because creating art creates magic, and the world is currently in desperate need of magic. BoldBrush provides artists with free art marketing, creativity and business ideas and information. There. Show is an example. We also offer written resources, articles and a free monthly art contest open to all visual artists. We believe that fortune favors the bold brush, and if you believe that too, sign up completely free at BoldBrush show.com that's B, O, L, d, b, r, U, S, H show.com the BoldBrush show is sponsored by Faso. Now, more than ever, it's crucial to have a website when you're an artist, especially if you want to be a professional in your career. Thankfully, with our special ink faso.com forward slash podcast, you can make that come true and also get over 50% off your first year on your artist website. Yes, that's basically the price of 12 lattes in one year, which I think is a really great deal, considering that you get sleek and beautiful website templates that are also mobile friendly, e commerce, print on demand in certain countries, as well as access to our marketing center that has our brand new art marketing calendar. And the art marketing calendar is something that you won't get with our competitor. The Art marketing calendar gives you day by day, step by step, guides on what you should be doing today right now, in order to get your artwork out there and seen by the right eyes so that you can make more sales this year. So if you want to change your life and actually meet your sales goal this year, then start now by going to our special link, faso.com forward slash podcast. That's faso.com forward slash podcast, yeah. And I think also that's an, I would say that's a really also great way of honing technique, even more, because you're so forced to really funnel all your skill into that exact like, Okay, I gotta hit that angle. I gotta hit that color note. I've gotta hit that so, I mean, I think that's also why a lot of plein air artists say they swear by plein air as one of the best ways to increase your skill in a relatively quick way. And I agree, it's because you're so forced to move quick, move precisely, as precisely as possible, because you're going to run out of time. That sun is moving so fast across this wall, we're rotating. We're rotating so fast that, of course, it's going to all the lights are going to change, all the shadows, the temperatures, the colors, everything's going to shift, so you have to catch it. So yeah, doing doing timed exercises. I totally agree. I'm actually, I wrote it down for myself, because that's, I think there is such thing as giving yourself too much time, like you're saying, you know, when you start fiddling around a little too much, or what I like to call pushing paint, which means you're not really, you're not improving what you got there. That's when you know it's it's over and you got to stop. And actually, I did it. So this kind of brings me into very interesting aspect that I think a lot of artists also face, which is that that constant sort of battle that happens between internally motivated work and externally motivated work. How? How have you experienced that? And then, what would you say is the primary way that you prefer to focus on your work?
Sandra Duran Wilson:What exactly do you mean by externally motivated?
Laura Arango Baier:So I would say externally motivated examples would be like, Oh, the way that that guy painted that is so cool. I want to paint something exactly like that. Or my gallerist is telling me I should paint this more, and I guess it's okay, because I kind of enjoy it. Or even just, you know, being too exposed to, like I said, like a social media or like a lot of outside influences, that kind of muddle, that sort of inner voice that's like trying to come out. How do you balance that?
Sandra Duran Wilson:Well, I think that you know, once you're aware of your inner voice, once you know your inner voice, that at least from Okay, I'm going to, just going to speak from my experience. I know what my visions for many things are, for many projects, my inner voice, I know I trust it, but I love to look at other techniques, other ideas. And many times it's like something I see in a museum show or gallery show, it's like, Oh, I really like that idea, but that idea sparks something else for me, so I can take that grain and plant it in my field, and it's going to come up and it's going to show my voice. Now, if you're just starting out, and you're looking at a lot of different things on social media, or hopefully you're going to gallery shows and to museum shows to. See and experience many different kinds of art. That's how we learn. I mean, that's how it used to be. You would go paint from the Masters, and you have to be influenced by that to hone your skill. But then you and again, it comes back to just paint more paint, more paint, more you might find that I really like how this particular technique. I mean, personally, for me, I love texture, whether it's applied texture or implied texture. And I'm a technique driven person, so I'm going to say, Oh, well, I like how that what if I did this? What if I use this material and incorporate it in to that and and just played around with that. But when somebody tells me, Oh, you better paint this way, I'm like, really. Now I do commissions for people, but where I would tell them, it's like, okay, we're deciding on the size, we're deciding on the color palette, and then you leave the rest to me, and I'll send you pictures, and I don't take payment until I'm done, because I'm not going to paint something that I can't sell myself. So whether it's for a gallery or whether it's for a person, you know, this is like, this is what I paint. But yes, I'm flexible, you know, I can, I can paint you something, you know, in this color palette or so, there's a way to work around it, but still stay true to your own voice. And I really think that you need to be exposed to a lot of different kinds of art. I remember when I first started in art school, and I was looking at performance art, it's like, the hell is this? Like? I just really didn't get it, and I found that the stronger reaction I had to something the more I understood it, that I got drawn into it over time, and because I began to look underneath what, what is this person? You're sitting in an empty room, wrapped in a hide, you know? And it was like, or they're, you know, so, just something really bizarre. And I said, Okay, well, why are they doing this, you know, I got curious. So once I started unearthing the why of what they're doing, I began to understand it, and that, I think, helped me develop my voice, because it's like, why am I painting this. Why am I seeing the world this way? So when you're when you see something that you're kind of like, oh, I don't like that. Well, why don't you like it? Understand why you don't like it. This was a challenge I used to do. Sometimes I would like be going back in the days when we had magazines. You could do it on social media now, but I'd be flipping through a magazine, and maybe I was looking at doing a remodel project in my house. And so I'm looking at like a house magazine, and I'm looking through it, and it's like, they've got colors or they've got decorations that I just I can't stand, but I'd have to challenge myself to find one thing on the page that I liked, and so that's a good exercise to go. Hmm, why don't I like this? And what is there in that that I can take and use myself? Yeah?
Laura Arango Baier:So, yes. So I actually do the same thing, which is so funny, and I'm sure maybe some other people have done it in a different way. It's kind of like, you know, your sibling or a friend shows you maybe an outfit that they really like, and it's not really your style. You don't vibe with it, but it's their style. So you try to find something in it that you like, so you say something positive, unless it's just absolutely horrendous, and you're just like, What are you even thinking? But I think that's, yeah, I totally agree. That's a very important quality, too. And once again, it makes perfect sense. You know, being someone who, you know, who's a scientist, right? You have to almost or not always, but I think you become so naturally used to asking yourself the why of everything all the time. And I think that's one of the best ways to go through life actually, because you don't just say, Oh, I really hate this, right? It's like, but why? You know, I think that's such an important quality, because I used to have that reaction about specific artwork as well. And then, you know, once. Start asking yourself, but why do I not like it? What? What is it that it represents to me? Or maybe it reminds me of some negative experience I may have had? And then suddenly you're in the realm of like, you know, critical thinking and reflection, and then self awareness, and then you can look at the piece again, and then almost make peace with it, because you're like, Ah, I understand now, this is the thing. And you can pull something, like you said, Something positive from it, then you that you then can pull into your own work, or into story, which I think that's something else that I wanted to cover with you a little bit about story, because that's, I think it becomes very much attached to, just like, you know, writing a book, a really good book, really good plot. I think painting also has that composition of story that it's really based on story. How have you develop story in your work?
Sandra Duran Wilson:Well, I think story is any visual artist or any artist, any creator, their story. I mean, we are all storytellers, whether we're artists or not. I mean, just our relationships, the way we go through life, we live on stories. You know, the stories are about interactions with other people. And if you're not having interactions with other people, that, in itself, is a story. So to just to get back to, you know, what we were saying right before, it's like, if you have a reaction to something, you know, and then to go, why don't I like this or what? So here's a tip, the stronger, the bigger your reaction is, there's something there, and that gets to story. So, like, if the story is, you know, what am I trying to say, it's like, I'll, I'll read quantum physics or science fiction, and it's like, the possibilities. For me, it's like these amazing possibilities. I almost went into physics, and my friends who were physicists, they're like, you know, you really would not do well with this. It's too too structured for you. And I'm like, you're probably right, you know? So I started to look at physics in a different way. I would read about theoretical physics, and it's like, oh, this is possible. And so I would start to create worlds of, what does it look like? What does a glue on or move on or black hole look like in to me, and what is the story of like? Why would I even, you know, I didn't have to have a whole sci fi opera, but it was just like, what does this look like? And why would it look like that? And so that would be a story. It was funny. I was doing, I spent a lot of years doing outdoor art shows here in Santa Fe and right next to us is Los Alamos, which is a large research scientific facility with a lot of physicists. And they would have big conferences, and I'd get these physicists drawn into my my booth, and I remember having a conversation with one one day and saying, yes, you know, this is a glue on, and this is a move on, and which are tiny, little particles. And he's looking at it, he goes, hmm, yeah, I think that's what it would look like. Alright, I got it. But, you know story, story can be told through color. Story can be told through composition, emotion, lack of movement, stillness, chaos, feelings. These are all stories. And I think that by being exposed to more types of art that you wouldn't normally look at, you're going to understand story better because that. I went to this exhibition yesterday, and it was about it's actually about story and time. And it was a wide range of everything, from film to traditional Hispanic arts to just everything. But it was about, it was a really good lesson in, how do people tell story, story of place, story of displacement, story of pain, of loss, you know? So we're all telling a story, no matter what we paint. And I think in in abstract work, you know, it's harder because people are not seeing like, Okay, here's the building, here's the. Barn here's like you can it's, in a way, it's easier to convey a sense of home or loss or joy or sadness when you have things you know instant tells, when you're just using color and shapes to tell a story, you have to really evoke a mood to tell the story, and that can be more challenging as an abstract artist. So there's one painting behind me on this side, and that's actually an image I made of using oil and water that I photographed shooting down through the oil and water to a gold leaf panel that I had created before. So I made that imagery and then trans put it into it's embedded in Plexiglas, which is then embedded into a long wooden panel that I created a lot of texture and multiple layers. So for me, layers are telling a story. There's layers, little, tiny things that you really have to get up close and see, you know, almost with a microscope. But that is my story. And somebody asked me, they said, Well, why do you paint on these long, skinny panels? And I really didn't know, until I stopped and thought about it, and it was like, Oh, these are, like, the slides that I looked at through my dad's microscope.
Laura Arango Baier:I was going to show that it looks like a slide. It does. It does, yeah,
Sandra Duran Wilson:and I find that stories. Sometimes I'm painting and I'm just like, in the moment, I'm creating, and I don't know the story until I look back. And sometimes it might be a year, sometimes I might be more and then I'm going, like, that's what that is about. So it can be part of us knows what we're doing, and the other part has to get in on it later on.
Laura Arango Baier:So, yeah, yeah, it's that union shadow side. Yeah, exactly, yep. And you you gotta, yeah, it's gonna come out, whether you want to or not. It will make itself known
Sandra Duran Wilson:absolutely and it's our job as artists to then pay attention and to see it. So that's the other piece.
Laura Arango Baier:It's so fascinating. I love it. I love it again. Because I think, you know, it's that aspect of I think the one thing I really appreciate and love about abstract is the level of surrender that has to happen, that oftentimes, I think realist painters might struggle with. Because, of course, when you're limited to recreating reality in a specific way, or even even just working from imagination has its limitations. You have to practice surrender and but then return to control, and then back to surrender and return to control in this cyclical sort of way that I think is so much easier to see an abstract than it is to see in realism. So I think we were talking about this earlier. Realism has a way of attracting and I'm also speaking from experience here, perfectionists, who are a little bit neurotic, want things to be exactly how they're supposed to be, but then when you have that surrender of abstract it can be a little bit scary for people who are perfectionists.
Sandra Duran Wilson:You say, you know you have to surrender you want something and realistically to look like what you think it should look like. But here's the question, ask yourself, well, if I had, you know, if I looked at it through a different filter, through a different lens, or if I only had vision in one eye, or if I couldn't see, what would it look like? You know, start to put yourself into different positions of like, what is it really supposed to look like? There's going to be, you know, you it's a way to trick yourself into letting go of some of that perfectionism. Because, you know, there's really no perfectionism, man. And you know, as we were talking earlier, the difference between, you know, the photographs, they flatten out a 3d you know, into a two dimensional so there's tricks of the lenses. And if you're painting from a photograph, or even if you're in a museum and you're painting from something, another painting in front of you, there's limitations. And I think this is you need to honor those. Limitations, you need to say that, yeah, that's part of the process. So let me see if I can push it beyond those limitations and just start to let go a little bit
Unknown:easy. It's not easy.
Laura Arango Baier:Yeah, it isn't, I think it's really funny, because even just reaching a high level of technique, right? That's, I think, when many artists start realizing the importance of that surrender, or they get so tired of that hyper focus on almost like coloring book style, like color in the perfectly made drawing type of situation, I think that's when the magic starts to happen, because then it's like, okay, how do I unlearn All of these habits that I've built around this excessive focus on technique, and how can I translate those skills into something more full of surrender or freedom, like we're saying,
Sandra Duran Wilson:painting with just a palette knife,
Laura Arango Baier:oh, or a massive Brush? Does
Sandra Duran Wilson:that count? Or your hands, your fingers.
Laura Arango Baier:Oh yeah, I already do that, but that's a good one too. Just don't use dangerous pigments, you guys, right?
Sandra Duran Wilson:No, I always wear gloves, even with acrylics. Oh yeah, but yeah, it's a change tools. Yeah, that's a good or try a different medium. Yes, play around in watercolor, if you're an oil painter, or encaustic, if you're an acrylic painter, or, you know, just try something new. Exactly.
Laura Arango Baier:I think that's one of those ways to really trick the system and hopefully also the critical voice. Fingers crossed, but yeah, so I wanted to ask you now because I'm also very curious to know, since you've had a very fascinating path through all of these different crafts, different jobs, what was it like for you when you became a full time artist?
Sandra Duran Wilson:Well, like I said, early on, I was always, I was a artist, you know, but I also had a second job, so when I transitioned to only doing artwork and not doing another job, then it was, it was really scary, because I had been working, you know, like I said, a decade at this facility, and I had Just met my husband, we just got married and bought a house, and was like, boom. Then the company was sold and I lost my job. So I was like, oh, okay, so now, because I was already doing my artwork, I said, Well, I guess I'll just have to do more art shows. Do you know, do my work more well with within the first year, I made more money doing just my art than I had doing both. So, I mean, I had already, excuse me, and art already been out there. So it wasn't like I was just starting, but it was a matter of trusting. It was, you know, it was a hell of a lot of work. I mean, it, we're still, sometimes I work seven days a week. It's, it's crazy to be a full time artist. It's, it's, I told a friend of mine, I said I fired my old boss because I was working all the time. You know, my videographer, we, we would be, like, cranking out these videos and, and I said to him, I was like, Yeah, I fired that boss. Let's work a half day. And it's, you know, it took me many, many years to get to that point of like, okay, well, I don't have to be constantly working. And so it is. I mean, every, every artist path is going to be completely different. You know, can you go out and be a full time artist? I don't know. You know, it depends. You know, what's your How much do you have to spend on, you know, your rent and your food? Where do you live in the world? What are your expectations? Everybody's different. But to create, to satisfy that creativity within a person, whether you're a lot of people I get are the ones that at nine years old, they stop drawing, and they're like, oh, okay, I'm going to go get this job. You know? I'm going to. Go, and then they reach they're their 50s, they're in their 60s, and they're like, I want to go back and draw that plane. I want to go back and find that creative spirit. And those are a lot of the people I work with. And it's important that you don't have to make your living as an artist to enjoy your creativity. You just need to create. So everybody's answer is going to be different. Do I need to pay the bills? If you're 25 years old and you're just starting out, you need to pay bills. You might have to work a couple of jobs. You know, it's unless you're extremely lucky and that you get great gallery representation, and it happens and but you just really have to be working all the time. You really have to be painting more, getting out, doing shows. Just because you're in a gallery doesn't mean you're going to sell paintings. So for me, my route was to sell directly myself and fortunate to live in a city that people come from all over the world to see art. So I was able to meet people and sell my work and keep them as collectors, and over time, just building that up. So everybody's route is going to be different. So I guess the first thing you need to say is, how do I take care of myself? And then why do I want to paint? So for some people, they're like, they never want to show their work. That's what they've told me. Then they sell something, and suddenly it changes. And they're like, oh. And it because it's like, oh, you know, you get this immediate response to your work. And so then they want to do it more. And so I just have one of my students who'd been with me in Mexico not long ago, I was doing a retreat down there. And so now it's like, oh, I need a website. I'm selling my work. And so I was like, Okay, here's your link. Get your website up and be legit and sell more work. So, you know, and she's retired from a long career. But yeah, so,
Laura Arango Baier:yeah, yeah. I think I love that you mentioned that you know that validation that happens for a lot of artists when they sell a piece, whether it's the first piece or even in their 100th piece. I think we're always low key kind of doubting ourselves, like this piece, this piece good, I don't know could just be realism, the hyper No, no, no. Okay, good.
Sandra Duran Wilson:I would say to my husband, say, oh my gosh, am I ever going to sell another painting? And he would just look at me like, Yeah, I think you will, yeah. We all go through that doubting that. Oh no. You know, it's like, what's wrong? What's wrong with the work, what's wrong with me? And it's no, we all have that insecurity. But then you sell something, you're like,
Laura Arango Baier:it's like, Oh, good. I'm not a I'm not a fake. That's good. I mean, it's not good, but it's good to know that we're in good company.
Unknown:Yes, absolutely,
Laura Arango Baier:yeah, yeah. Because it is, yeah, it's, I think deep down, I think the part about it that kind kind of is scary, is the vulnerability, you know, it's the feeling like, Man, I worked so many hours on this, or I put my heart and soul into this piece, and it's important, you know, and who could ever see it in that light, or who could ever care about it, right? That's, I think, one of the only other things that really comes to mind is like that. Again, it could just be that hyper critical voice that says, but who cares? You know, like, there are hundreds and 1000s of really beautiful paintings out there that are probably better than yours, right? And I think that's the hard part that I think a lot of artists, when they're thinking of selling, I think that's one of the big things, also, speaking from experience here to overcome, which is that imposter syndrome. You know?
Sandra Duran Wilson:Well, it gets back to story. So what is the other part of the story? Is you're creating this work. You're, you know, we talked about all the different ways of story. But the story continues when somebody buys that work, or somebody lives with that work, even if you give it away to someone, you know that becomes part of the story, or I have a lot of work that's in public art collections, and so a lot of people will see those, and that is the to me, that's the total, the other half of the story. My creating. It is. Is the first half how people interact with it. It's the other half, and they get to make up their story. They get to say what they see, what they feel. And I step back, my job is done, because I made my story. And if they want to see something different than what I that's their story. It becomes their story. And I think that is the beauty of, you know, imposter syndrome. I mean, come on, it's like we're all imposters in life, and we're all realist it's like, I I understand that imposter thing. It's like, yeah, am I really an artist? And I know people who had a hard time saying that, but it's like, oh, just don't be so damn serious. Yes, you're an artist. You made that. It's like, get over it. Let's go on. It's like, when somebody thinks enough about a piece to take it and say, I really want this and and you're going, Oh no, but it's not this. It's not it's like, just close your mouth and say, Thank you. That's the best advice. Don't say, oh, but this is the No no no. Say thank you, and, oh, I'm so glad you're getting it and, and that's the best thing you can do.
Laura Arango Baier:Yes, I actually think that that bit where you said, Oh, shut up. To stop taking it seriously, I think I'm going to clip that and just play it for myself the next time I feel like I'm having, like, one of those moments where I'm stuck in my head about it. It's like, Sandra said, so. Sandra said, so she believes in you.
Sandra Duran Wilson:That's right, I do, I do believe in you. And this imposter syndrome thing is like, Nope, you're real. I see you. You're there. You're no imposter. So there you go. Thank you.
Laura Arango Baier:Thank you. And everyone out there, you are, you are an artist. You're listening.
Sandra Duran Wilson:Yes, there's a little side to that. I remember a student I had a long, long time ago, and we were talking about that. We were talking about calling ourselves artist. And she was, I don't want to call myself an artist, and I'm like, Really, why is that? And she had taken a painting class at a museum in the city where we were, and she said that the teacher was just so mean and nasty that she never wanted to be like that. I'm like, Well, you know, there's a lot more artist out there than that one person. So use that person as an example, and you can be a different kind of artist, but, and she was quite talented, you know? And I said, so don't be afraid to call yourself an artist. Just you get to choose what kind of artist you get to be. So, yeah, be a good one. Be a happy one. Don't be happy. Have to be happy. Just be go do what motivates you? Go do what. What is it? Follow. Follow that voice. My voice has changed my direction of where I'm going over the years, and I like to say, I change my direction every decade, reinvent yourself. So being happy doesn't have to be part of it, but being true, I think, is a good part of it. And I think if you're true, you might find that happiness, or the joy I mean, yeah,
Laura Arango Baier:I agree. I agree. There comes and it's, it's so funny, because it's, it reminds me a lot of the Stoics, and also aspects of Buddhism, you know, where you can recognize your sadness, but it's, it's a part of being alive, right? So sometimes it's happened to me, and I'm sure it may have happened to you as well. Where, like, when you recognize that through that sadness, you're participating, or through that suffering of some sort, you're participating in the human condition, right? The experience of being human. It's almost a strange kind of happiness that happens through that
Sandra Duran Wilson:well, it's part of that letting go, that surrender, beautiful,
Laura Arango Baier:oh, yeah. And then back to the more mundane aspects, unless you want to mention something more.
Sandra Duran Wilson:Stoicism is very good philosophy for see or Buddhism. And you know, you just, you see something, you name it, you're you let go of the fear of it, and you just move on. It's like, Yeah, I'm feeling sad today. Okay, well, still gotta go do the dishes or go grocery shopping and. You know, just keep moving, and eventually that mood will change.
Laura Arango Baier:Yeah, yeah. And I think I also read somewhere, I know this is a bit of a side note, but it might help someone out there who's an artist, who's very anxious or sad, but it actually only takes 90 seconds to feel an emotion. Then the more you try to avoid it, the more it prolongs it, actually. So, like you said, you know, you name it, you recognize it, you let yourself feel it,
Sandra Duran Wilson:and then and smile smile, because smiling will change your mood or laugh.
Laura Arango Baier:Yeah, yeah, look up some funny videos. That's what I like to do sometimes. Yeah, yeah, yes, um, but yeah. Back to the more mundane, uh, aspects of the business side of being an artist. Actually, it's not as it's not that mundane. I think it can be very exciting, but do you mind telling us how it is that you developed that collector base for yourself? What were some of the the marketing aspects that you did that really helped put your work out there?
Sandra Duran Wilson:Well, I think the the most, the biggest way. Was, like I said, I did outdoor art shows every weekend, six months out of the year, I'd be up at three or four o'clock in the morning and all kinds of weather. Hell of a way to make a living. But I did it for quite a few years, and I met a lot of different people. I also had my work in galleries. I would submit to some exhibitions, juried exhibitions, to get my work in. And I just in teaching, writing and teaching opened up to a lot more people. So a lot of my students became collectors, or collectors became students, which I really loved. I had some really big collectors, and one of the women, she started to take a course with me, and now she's doing beautiful work of her own. So it's relationship is what? How you build a collector base, whether that relationship is online, whether it's in person, whether it's with your gallerist. Usually a gallery will not share collector information, because that's their business. But if you have a good relationship with your gallerist, they open up opportunities for me, for you to, you know, have exhibitions to meet and greet. One gallery I was in would let me come in and paint, you know, and so I'd be in this in the gallery painting, and I would meet a lot of people, and they see what you're doing. And they're like, Oh, I love that. And they buy stuff. So it's, it's, I guess the thing I said to myself early on when I had to say, Okay, I'm a full time artist now, is say yes to opportunities. And I said yes to a lot, lot of opportunities that were like, well, that was a dumb one. But, you know, you just, you just say yes, you have to kind of keep moving. And it's a bit different world right now. People are not, you know, a lot of galleries, especially since covid have closed. A lot of major galleries I was in don't exist anymore. People are getting older. The gallery owners are retiring, and younger people are buying more online. So I'm, you know, I still sell things online more so to people that are ready by my work. But here's the thing you're going to sell when you first start out, you're going to sell to your friends and your family. That's going to that's who's going to buy your work, and that's for everybody, you know. We've all been there. Then you start to sell to people you don't know. And that's really the big Whoopty, Whoo, yeah, you're going to go out and celebrate, and then you're going to start to get into more shows or galleries, or you're going to meet more people, and maybe they're going to or maybe they're going to buy a small piece from you online, and then once they see the quality of it, then they're more apt to buy something larger. I mix experimented with doing some of the big art venues. My gallery's taken my work to like, you know, Art Miami and New York and San Diego, the big art fairs. And I don't know it's they didn't do a lot, but everybody's got an amp. Opinion of how to sell. And I don't know it's like you just, you keep trying different things, you find something that works for you. And if you're on social media, and I do a lot on social media, but it's it's not as strong at conveying my story every day on social media, and I just decided that I'm tired of feeding that lion every day, that my joy in creating is more important than really creating content every single day. So I've decided not to do that so much. And do I sell as much work? I don't know, but you've got to do what's going to keep you sane, what's going to keep you healthy, what's going to keep you happy. And if you really don't like doing something, you've got two choices. You either outsource it or you don't do it. So that's kind of my motto. It's like there are things that I have other you know, I've learned how to do all my own video editing, and I really had a good time with it, but I am not very fast at it, so I hire a videographer who's very good at it, and then I can spend more of my time developing the painting. The same with other, you know, business things that if you can't afford to pay somebody trade, I've gotten my work in a lot of places, my eye doctor, my doctor, people, you know your gym and you know waiting rooms, get your work out there, get it the more you can have it seen, the better.
Laura Arango Baier:Yes, absolutely. I've also spoken to artists who have their work in restaurants as well. That's helped them also sell work. Yeah, it is. The only thing
Sandra Duran Wilson:with restaurants is your work comes back smelling like the restaurant,
Laura Arango Baier:unless someone buys it. Then, then, you know what? If the food was good, that's kind of a good memory. Yeah, that's true, yeah. Oh, man. So Sandra, do you have any upcoming shows, exhibitions, workshops, anything fun that you would like to promote?
Sandra Duran Wilson:Well, I do have my final in person teaching event. It's going to be in Ireland this summer, and it's in an art school in County Mayo in western Ireland. And I think I still have a couple of places left in the in the workshop. I don't think it's quite sold out yet, so it's going to be a lot of fun. I've taught there before, and it's just an absolutely beautiful place, part of the country. And so I, you know, if you're interested in that, it's on the website. I have some, as I said earlier, I'm kind of changing directions, and I'm working on an installation project of in New Mexico. We've a few years ago, we had a very large forest fire that destroyed it was the largest in the history of the state. And I've connected with some people who have lost their home, a good portion of their forest. And we're doing a project where we're creating painted canvases, and we're wrapping the burned tree in these colorful canvases. We're doing video and photography installations of it. And I started this project a few years ago in art residency in southern Italy, and then I continued it in a residency in France by wrapping these very large chestnut trees in this forest in eastern France. And it gave, I mean, that was such a lush, beautiful place. And it when I got home, and I was like, Okay, this is we don't have those big kind of trees here. And then I started looking at the burn scars, and I was like, What can I do to bring awareness of the climate change and the effects of climate change into people's awareness without it being horrific or feeling like I'm beating them over the head with information? And so I got this idea of creating an art and it's evolving. It's it's still developing. I'm going to get the people whose land we're working on. I'm going to get them to my studio to also paint some of the canvases and do some of these installations, and then we will take the project into a gallery setting or museum setting. So. It's kind of a long term project, but it's my passion project right now, so I'll be, I'll be posting more about it on social media as it goes along. And so those are the things that I have
Laura Arango Baier:exciting, yes, and then do you mind telling us what your website and social media are, and YouTube channel for that matter.
Sandra Duran Wilson:Well, my, my website is Sandra Duran Wilson and my name and this, I think, for my business, Facebook, it's Sandra Duran Wilson artist, and it's all, it's all under my name, branding is, and that's another thing in marketing, is keep your branding under your name. Some people will come up with different, you know, names for their business, but if you keep your your your branding for your social media and your website under your name, then it's a great way for people to remember who you are and to find you again. So and the YouTube channel is also under Sandra. Duran Wilson, awesome.
Laura Arango Baier:Well, thank you so much, Sandra. It was an absolute joy to talk art inspiration. Wonderful. Yes, yes.
Sandra Duran Wilson:I know we kind of roamed around a few places, but I, that's how I like to create too.
Laura Arango Baier:Yes, it's just, you know, going with the flow, intuition, just, you know, yeah, it's following that, that voice, almost of, oh, this reminds me of this. And then it's a, it's a really great dialog. I really enjoyed it.
Sandra Duran Wilson:I enjoyed it too. Our conversation. Thank you for having me, of course, and
Laura Arango Baier:thank you for being here. You're welcome. Thank you to everyone out there for listening to the podcast. Your continued support means a lot to us. If you've enjoyed the episode, please leave a review for the podcast on Apple podcast Spotify, or leave us a comment on YouTube. This helps us reach others who might also benefit from the excellent advice that our guests provide. Thank you.