Transcending Workspace

Transcending Workspaces: A Conversation with Boaz Ashkenazy

March 21, 2022 Apex Facility Resources Season 1 Episode 4
Transcending Workspace
Transcending Workspaces: A Conversation with Boaz Ashkenazy
Show Notes Transcript

Join Matt as he speaks with Boaz Ashkenazy to discuss Boaz's experience building his business with immersive experiences. 

Boaz is the CEO of Simply Augmented, member of Khronos 3DCommerce working group, and an advisor on the business of 3D, VR/AR and XR, to a select group of global companies. 

Boaz is driven to help companies of all sizes leverage 3D content to drive growth in a world transitioning to online sales, virtual experiences and augmented marketing. 


00:00:13:11 - 00:00:46:04
Matt
Boaz Ashkenazi is the CEO and founder of Simply Augmented founded in 2017 simply augmented helps brands navigate the world of WEB3 and establish a foothold in the metaverse. Over the years, simply augmented has worked for innovative brands around the world, including Nike, Herman Young, Target one hundreds Diamond Supply Company and Fred Siegel. Boaz is a member and has co-chair the Kronos 3D Commerce Working Group, helping set the standard for streamlined 3D content creation management and display in online retail.

00:00:46:17 - 00:00:57:13
Matt
Prior to simply augmented by was a founding partner in Studio two 16 and an architect at the Miller Group Partnership in here in Seattle. Welcome, Boaz.

00:00:58:10 - 00:00:59:18
Boaz
Hey, thanks. It's great to be here.

00:01:00:20 - 00:01:12:22
Matt
So super excited to have you, man, because not only are you a good friend, but I am intrigued with your background because you came out of college as an architect. Yeah. You're going to go build stuff.

00:01:13:11 - 00:01:39:15
Boaz
Yeah. Yeah, I, I moved to Seattle from Los Angeles to study architecture, and then I graduated from the University of Washington, and I practiced architecture in Seattle for several years. But it was a time. This was in 2000 that the 3D was just coming up in the architecture profession. When I was in school, they taught me how to draw with pen and ink and pencils.

00:01:39:15 - 00:02:09:03
Boaz
And when I graduated to things like Micro Station and SketchUp and Revit was just coming into play. And so I got really deep into 3D in the early days of my architectural practice and then decided to start a company that was focused on commercial real estate and architecture. And in 2005 started that company and by 2008, all of a sudden you started to see virtual reality headsets coming to market and augmented reality headsets coming to market.

00:02:09:03 - 00:02:10:12
Boaz
So we got caught up in all of that.

00:02:10:24 - 00:02:43:20
Matt
Yeah, it 16 was really a leader in our market. I remember going in and you helping give me the download Keys to some of the spaces that you created for renovated lobbies, potentially space configurations for leasing. You were listing four floors of available space and you would have rendered images of everything from furniture or social areas, break room areas in the lobby.

00:02:43:20 - 00:02:55:21
Matt
It was just amazing. We'd stand on a on a circle and we could look in our phone and just do a three 60 and see the new space. So just to break, I think I thought it was a brilliant way to demonstrate, you know, and show space.

00:02:56:15 - 00:03:20:02
Boaz
Yeah. You know, visualizing architects year and, and commercial real estate is really a powerful way to, to sell space, but also to sell items. You know, the second company that I that I founded was focused on products and we worked with Herman Miller on a bunch of office furniture that we'd work with Target and a bunch of home decor.

00:03:20:02 - 00:03:36:20
Boaz
And as augmented reality came into play, it wasn't just about using your mobile device to visualize a space by spinning around, but now you could drop those items in your real environment and see what they looked like at scale in your own space. And now we have the option to do both.

00:03:36:23 - 00:03:56:12
Matt
And another amazing tool you you designed to work through a phone. So, you know, we'd be standing in my showroom in Seattle and we'd be looking at a piece of furniture sitting in in the you know, in the lobby area. I mean, you could just literally drop stuff, which was, you know, crazy for the day. I mean, it still is today in my mind.

00:03:56:12 - 00:04:08:14
Matt
And for us, visualization is so vital to helping people understand what workspace can be for them, because it's really hard, you know, for the client to see that yeah.

00:04:09:01 - 00:04:39:08
Boaz
Well, now we have the option, you know, to look at it on our desktop, on our phone right now with with Oculus Quest, you know, on headsets, you know, HoloLens and inside augmented reality headsets, you know, years have gone by. It's opened up a lot of possibilities for us. And, you know, there's still a lot of folks that don't own headsets but you're starting to see, especially in the architecture and general contracting profession, it's a lot more common for them to show design configurations inside headsets and on desktops.

00:04:39:09 - 00:04:41:11
Boaz
And it's very kind of cross-platform now.

00:04:42:00 - 00:05:27:03
Matt
Well, and, you know, as you and I talk, you know, sometimes I feel like you're speaking another language, you know, because this whole Web3 and the metaverse, I guess it kind of reminds me of the start of the Internet back in the nineties. I mean, it feels the same way. It feels like there's new words to learn, new things to understand, new concepts to conceive, so to speak, in and in the furniture industry and smart, exciting commercial interiors and delivering and selling commercial interests I'm fascinated by the fact that this new metaverse is going to probably be more prominent for retail to start with.

00:05:27:11 - 00:05:55:04
Matt
And already we talk about the Gen Z and then the following generation, my grandchildren generation being totally digitally accepted. Generations, they've totally lived. And my my son is played in these games. You know, the warfare games and so forth since he was ten or 11. And so he's lived in the digital world is jumping out of airplanes, flying helicopters.

00:05:55:04 - 00:06:20:06
Matt
He's, you know, doing all these things in the virtual world. And those generations are just accustomed to it now. And I think it's you can't stop it. It's something that's coming. And so let's talk about a little bit about the fascinating I mean, you were telling me about the things you were working on. It's simply augmented now, which is come so far and evolved so much and changed so much.

00:06:20:06 - 00:06:34:14
Matt
And this is a show about change. Yeah. Tell us a little bit about how, you know, you've evolved from basically working with AUGMENT in reality to show furniture and now and to add to 16, you know, virtualized space to where you are now.

00:06:35:13 - 00:06:58:05
Boaz
Yeah. So it's it's been interesting you know, we I've been in the 3D world for 20 years and so I understand the process, the technical process about 3D and I've explored lots of different platforms. But when the pandemic hit, everything changed. And so obviously, you know, we immediately went to platforms like Zoom to be able to communicate.

00:06:58:12 - 00:06:59:11
Matt
Right. Right.

00:06:59:11 - 00:07:26:21
Boaz
But during that time, I was really interested in understanding, well, what's going to be the 3D play. You know, we're all we have video on our screens and we're talking to each other now, but what's, what's it going to be like in 3D? And what was kind of interesting for me at that time was during that year, a lot of folks in the Bitcoin and Ethereum camps were trying to figure out what to do.

00:07:26:21 - 00:07:56:13
Boaz
And NFTS were kind of a product of of that time. They they didn't start at that time, but they got really popular. And we saw a lot of 2D NFT drops that year. There was some famous artwork that sold for lots of money. People started to spend money on on digital assets And what's interesting about crypto and about what's happening in that space is it was kind of the first time that you could actually own and prove ownership of a digital asset.

00:07:57:14 - 00:08:10:20
Boaz
And that was significant. And so the metaverse has been going has been around for a while. You know, when I first started my practice many years ago, there was this thing called Second Life. I don't know if you remember.

00:08:11:01 - 00:08:11:12
Matt
Yeah.

00:08:12:12 - 00:08:17:09
Boaz
The Second Life was a was a metaverse with a currency and a lot of users.

00:08:17:14 - 00:08:17:22
Matt
Yeah.

00:08:18:03 - 00:08:42:17
Boaz
And so the only difference was and the only difference between Second Life at the time and games like like World of Warcraft and, you know, games like like Roblox and things is that you you owned it inside the game. And there was currency inside the game, but it wasn't interoperable. You couldn't buy those items and sell them in a marketplace.

00:08:43:10 - 00:09:06:13
Boaz
And that all changed with this. And why it's interesting to me is that we've gotten involved in a lot of projects that involve digital wearables with big streetwear companies. That actually sell physical clothing. Right. And now they have a digital representation of their physical clothing that you can buy the physical good you can buy the digital good, you can resell the digital good.

00:09:06:13 - 00:09:30:05
Boaz
There's a marketplace for those digital goods and you can prove ownership. And so I think that's what's really changed. And as you think about these metaverse, what are they're going to look like in the future? I think there is going to be a consumer social metaverse and I think there's going to be a workplace metaverse as well. It's not going to be weird for you to meet your clients and you're going to dress up.

00:09:30:16 - 00:09:34:24
Boaz
You know, it's going to be Friday casual in your metaverse. I'm hearing same casual.

00:09:34:24 - 00:09:36:11
Matt
By the way, as you can tell.

00:09:38:09 - 00:09:44:21
Boaz
And you know, people are going to make choices about how they want to present themselves when they go to work in the metaverse and when they go hang out.

00:09:45:05 - 00:10:14:12
Matt
In the right. So so 54 just a little statistical data here. And we're going to talk about some of these terms we're using. But 54 billion is spent with virtual goods currently, which is double the spend on music. This is today. So, yes, the pandemic did accelerate the digitization of our lives, which is also another kick in the butt that this whole two year span has had decentralized autonomous organization.

00:10:14:16 - 00:10:23:19
Matt
That's one word I want you to explain to me interoperability you have already mentioned, which is across the virtual world interconnections, right?

00:10:24:06 - 00:10:26:03
Boaz
Yeah. Yeah. We could talk more about that to.

00:10:26:21 - 00:10:27:06
Matt
So.

00:10:27:11 - 00:10:43:07
Boaz
And so the Daos decentralized autonomous organizations. You really need to think about them as as companies, right? As like yes. The Web3 company. And and they function in lots of different ways. Sometimes people come together and they pull money.

00:10:43:19 - 00:10:43:20
Matt
Up.

00:10:43:22 - 00:10:57:19
Boaz
To purchase things that they otherwise wouldn't be able to do as individuals. And oftentimes there's voting involved. That's a little bit more cooperative than you would typically see in an organization where ultimately the board votes.

00:10:58:01 - 00:10:58:05
Matt
To.

00:10:58:05 - 00:11:22:08
Boaz
Make the decisions. And so it's a really it's really interesting. I think there's a lot of groups that are exploring in these early days what it means to be a DAO and what are the efficient parts of being a cooperative and not a centralized organization, but it's really interesting and there's a lot of cool stuff that's that's getting done in terms of the interoperability.

00:11:23:16 - 00:11:45:01
Boaz
We're still also early days on that. But here's the vision. The vision is, is that in the digital world, you have a backpack, and in that backpack are your clothing and your items and all the things that you want to carry with you. And it doesn't matter where you go, you can go from game to game, you can go from world to world, but you can use your stuff.

00:11:46:05 - 00:11:47:24
Matt
That involved the world's.

00:11:48:18 - 00:11:49:18
Boaz
Right, the worlds that you.

00:11:49:18 - 00:12:22:11
Matt
Own. And they haven't quite made them all connected, though. You have no do. That's the only thing I'm looking at going that seems like everybody has a flight from here, you know, and it a lot of these, you know, and what what kind of got inspired are just getting ready for our chat today was this bizarre now article the first basic survey that they put out about the metaverse within the commercial real estate community and in November tokens dot com acquired 116 parcel of state in session street district of Decentraland.

00:12:22:17 - 00:12:38:14
Matt
Yep via a new subsidiary metaverse group page 618 manor and Etherium based token used as currency in Decentraland for a deal for the deal which is roughly converting to about 2.4 million bucks.

00:12:38:19 - 00:12:40:07
Boaz
Yeah yeah. This is.

00:12:40:14 - 00:12:42:23
Matt
A real estate starting to edge into the metaverse.

00:12:43:08 - 00:12:44:22
Boaz
Yeah. Big time. And it was real money.

00:12:44:22 - 00:12:45:09
Matt
Your thoughts on.

00:12:45:09 - 00:13:06:15
Boaz
That. Yeah, yeah. So I'm working in. Yeah. And it's a lot of these neighborhoods right now and thinking about building retail in those neighborhoods. That might lease that retail to these owners of land. And so you just think of it like, think about it like commercial real estate. These guys are buying up 250 parcels 300 parcels. Yeah, these parcels are 16 meter by 16 meters.

00:13:06:15 - 00:13:34:22
Boaz
So they're, you know, they're the size of a small, you know, store. Yeah. And yet height limits Right. Like there's, you know, 20 meter height limits. I mean it's all the same. And then you think about the parcel size and what that would cost over the year to lease that land. And there's people that are excited about coming into these neighborhoods and they're more excited about coming into neighborhoods where there's cool venues adjacent to just the what real life and what location.

00:13:35:03 - 00:13:52:08
Matt
What's blowing my mind is when Goldman Sachs and Morgan Stanley both reported that they see 8 trillion worth of opportunity in this space, and major institutional investors like BlackRock are looking at getting into the sector in a bigger way. You know, I mean, this is Pete with a trillion yeah.

00:13:52:08 - 00:14:17:04
Boaz
It's going to be a huge, huge space. And and I think there's a lot of parallels to the way that we think about property in real life. It's just that the numbers of people that are there now are small. The daily active users are small, but they're growing really fast. And I think that's why they're looking at those big numbers because they understand that, you know, you brought up your son before.

00:14:17:14 - 00:14:24:17
Boaz
A lot of people play games and they play games to socialize with their friends. And so they don't he's screaming.

00:14:25:07 - 00:14:31:13
Matt
Screaming in the middle of like 11:00 at night screaming at the guys on the on the ground.

00:14:32:23 - 00:14:51:02
Boaz
And what's funny to me is they don't go on to zoom, to have happy hours like adults. So they go play games so that they can hang out and talk and, and they can do fun things together. And that's the thing about these worlds, I think that that I've learned over the last few years about what is sticky and what brings people back.

00:14:51:08 - 00:14:51:17
Matt
Yeah.

00:14:52:03 - 00:15:14:04
Boaz
There's a lot of, you know, fashion release parties that I've gone to recently where we're dropping clothes for people and they have a party and there's like a venue where people are dancing and there's music and it's pure social and it's fun for a minute, but then it gets old really fast. And what you're seeing now, there's a concept in the metaverse called Play to earn games played.

00:15:14:04 - 00:15:15:03
Matt
Erm, yeah, yeah.

00:15:15:19 - 00:15:33:00
Boaz
That's really, really taking off. And the reason why is that they're seeing that, that's what brings people back, you know, it's one thing to have a new user come in for the first time and buy some digital wearables and go to a party but to get them back there needs to be something fun to do.

00:15:33:09 - 00:15:55:07
Matt
Yeah. And gamification is nothing new. I mean the airlines do it, Nordstrom does it. I mean retail has figured that out. And so outside of gaming, you know, the, the, the early apps in is probably retail hospitality meetings and events as far as what you're seeing, is there anybody else that you see out there that's going to be jumping in on this opportunity?

00:15:56:08 - 00:16:16:08
Boaz
I mean, know it's funny, I Token's E-Com just built a headquarters in Decentraland and I noticed that there was a lot of professional services that were talking to them about getting space in their tower. They built a tower. Yeah. And I think that, you know, I guess that goes to meetings, but maybe on a smaller scale, not on the convention.

00:16:16:16 - 00:16:36:11
Boaz
Center sized meetings. But yeah, you're starting to see a lot of businesses think about, well, you know, I need a presence, I need a space, and I'm going to meet people and you know, it might not be a pure sale. Like I'm going to a store to go shopping, but it's still a business transaction kind of business meeting yeah.

00:16:36:11 - 00:17:17:16
Matt
And you know, if you're not a digital native now, which you clearly are an older digital native, by the way, I don't mean to be, you know, but reality is it's probably 21. And under our true digital natives, I know my older kids are probably more digitally native than I am. But, you know, my wife and I are just looking at each other last night going, Oh my God, you know, this whole this is a scary but also a very exciting time, you know, and it's also we were also shaking your head of politics and everything going on the day and just the fact that change and this show is about, you know, the rate of

00:17:17:16 - 00:17:43:12
Matt
change and how it's influencing impacting people's lives, that there's just no way to turn the clock back this is going to happen. And so we all need need to really start taking this stuff in and figuring it out. So big question how do you see, I guess at this point, how do you see the metaverse changing what people are calling the human condition?

00:17:44:12 - 00:17:46:12
Matt
Because that's a big conversation right now.

00:17:46:18 - 00:17:58:02
Boaz
It is a big conversation. I, I have mixed feelings about it. You know, there's a lot of people that have dystopian ideas about what a metaverse is going to look like when we all have our headsets on. And that's the only way that we communicate.

00:17:58:12 - 00:17:58:18
Matt
Yeah.

00:17:59:05 - 00:18:22:24
Boaz
I think that I hope that there is a relationship to the real world in all of this. And when I think about the products that we're dealing with, they definitely are. Most of them are are digital. You know, there's a physical and a digital aspect to both. And I hope it stays that way. Because I think there's definitely going to be elements of pure digital environments and pure digital experiences and wearables and such.

00:18:23:13 - 00:18:29:17
Boaz
But I think that that we need to kind of have a relationship to the real world in order for this to to really be sustainable.

00:18:30:11 - 00:18:44:19
Matt
Yeah, I mean, going and doing paintball together is very is the real world version of playing in these games together. So yeah, I think you're right. I mean, I mean, I love I love this license. So I don't think I'll be digitally like licensing any.

00:18:46:14 - 00:18:48:23
Boaz
Right to different, different feeling.

00:18:49:01 - 00:19:16:19
Matt
It's such a natural conditions. And, you know, stepping in the river is what I call river therapy. You know, it's kind of meditative and soothing to my soul just to be standing in a river with me. Bald eagles flying over my head of the trout or steelhead grabbing my my line. So I, you know, I'm really intrigued now more than ever about where all this is going and seeing that these transactions are starting.

00:19:16:19 - 00:19:39:00
Matt
You know, the first of its kind metaverse real estate deal venture capital firm took out $30,000 mortgage from a Canadian technology firm terror zero last month to occupy space in Decentraland which is unheard of. And I think a lot of the real estate people are so uncertain. And one of the things they talk about is scarcity. Yes with no scarcity how could you have value.

00:19:39:24 - 00:19:53:00
Matt
Others counter that argument saying, hey, you have hundreds of hotels. You know, there's no scarcity there. So you then start choosing brands. So I guess it's really about establishing brands isn't it?

00:19:53:13 - 00:19:55:20
Boaz
Yeah, it is. And at the same staking.

00:19:55:20 - 00:19:57:14
Matt
A claim of brand in that. Yeah.

00:19:58:08 - 00:20:09:23
Boaz
Yeah. And there's neighborhoods now where brands are kind of coming together to have their shops adjacent to each other and and that matters. You know, people want to be around, you know, the brands that they care about.

00:20:10:07 - 00:20:29:05
Matt
So that's lot of about adjacencies you know, I mean, obviously in the commercial furniture world, we could probably have a stake and we are so services firm. So it's kind of like, I don't know, I could probably see myself in a showroom scenario which would give my clients the virtual showroom experience. But you and I have talked about before.

00:20:29:12 - 00:20:29:18
Boaz
Yet.

00:20:29:18 - 00:20:38:09
Matt
But at the same time, I'm also wondering about these adjacencies and how do you I mean, that hasn't been sorted out yet. It doesn't seem.

00:20:39:05 - 00:20:43:18
Boaz
Yeah, it's getting sorted out right now. I mean, I think that there are fashion districts.

00:20:44:07 - 00:20:47:07
Matt
There are like design center.

00:20:47:20 - 00:21:16:16
Boaz
Yeah. It's like a design center, you know, in four different things, right? There's fashion districts for clothing. There's there's going to be design center districts like the mark for, you know, four different kinds of you know, décor and furniture and, you know, you name it. And I, I think there's a lot of energy in the luxury goods and the, the fashion world but also in the design world about coming together and having these adjacencies with, you know, cultural adjacent adjacencies.

00:21:16:16 - 00:21:17:02
Boaz
I would say.

00:21:17:21 - 00:21:53:08
Matt
So to somebody like me, you know, we're just a mid-market company. We do business with all kinds of companies, both enterprise level as well as startups. And, you know, we funded tech companies mostly, but many of you know, all across the spectrum of all professional services. How would you what would your advice be if somebody like me in our business and saying, you know, I kind of feel like I don't wanna miss the boat, but at the same time, I don't know what the heck I should be doing and this whole digital currency is it is a mystery to me.

00:21:53:08 - 00:22:08:20
Matt
And I hear all about, you know, how these things fluctuate. That commercial where the guy goes, I'm a millionaire, or no, I'm not a millionaire or a millionaire. So what are you coaching? What do you how do you how would you coach got me? You know, let's say the eight year old guy yeah.

00:22:08:20 - 00:22:28:17
Boaz
I would say, you know, age is not the issue for me. It's just kind of being new to a very, very new space. And, you know, I experienced this a lot. We we work for a brand called The Hundreds, and it's run by two guys, Bobby and Ben. And they've been around for a really long time. And they are they're my age, too.

00:22:28:17 - 00:22:50:21
Boaz
And but they have been in the streetwear space from the beginning. They're kind of O.G. streetwear guys. And Bobby and Ben went head first into crypto and into NFTS, and they were one of the first streetwear brands to do so. What was interesting about that market was that a lot of folks were used to buying sneakers, flipping sneakers.

00:22:50:22 - 00:23:22:16
Boaz
There was this culture of reselling, but nobody knew about the technology. And what was so interesting about the way that they brought their community in, which is a lot of people of color, a lot of younger people, is that education was a huge part of the way that they onboarded videos teaching people how to get the wallets that you needed so that you could purchase things how to get into metaverse and really like very, very simple ways of getting involved.

00:23:23:07 - 00:23:38:10
Boaz
And so it's been pretty cool to see folks that normally are not what you would consider your typical tech nerd getting into these environments and really forming strong communities with each other.

00:23:38:18 - 00:23:39:05
Matt
Interesting.

00:23:39:07 - 00:24:05:07
Boaz
And I think that that's the part that I think is interesting about Web3 is it's much more community based than the social web two platforms that we're used to. So my advice would be get involved in and learn a little bit about some of these communities. Get go into Decentraland and understand what it's like to move through a metaverse.

00:24:05:07 - 00:24:09:15
Boaz
You don't have to spend a lot of money or have a third party.

00:24:09:15 - 00:24:11:10
Matt
You start having to go into Decentraland.

00:24:12:02 - 00:24:30:19
Boaz
Yeah. So the if you go to Decentraland, for example, you can go to Decentraland org. And it's there's a lot of very simple tutorials for how to get in. You need a MetaMask wallet to ultimately purchase things in Decentraland, but you can also just go in as a guest and explore. You don't really need to have anything in your wallet.

00:24:31:11 - 00:24:32:00
Matt
That you're not.

00:24:32:00 - 00:24:54:21
Boaz
Or my dog. I think that's yours. Oh, perfect. So I think that yeah, I would explore Decentraland as a guest and if you want to take the next step, I would get a crypto wallet, like a MetaMask wallet where you can put a little bit of money in there and start exploring the marketplaces. But yeah, that would be that would be a start.

00:24:56:06 - 00:25:18:05
Matt
Well, I'm so sorry about the dogs. They were supposed to be in their pen, so no problem. Yeah, well, I, you know, it's been a journey so far, and this meta, this, this wallet creation and and, you know, I have a friend who download who is trying to get me to download an app to start with digital currency.

00:25:18:05 - 00:25:19:23
Matt
Would you recommend something like that as well?

00:25:21:08 - 00:25:23:00
Boaz
What is he what is he recommended to you?

00:25:23:09 - 00:25:29:03
Matt
I can't remember the name of it, but it was one that he had started using. And it kind of trades in digital currency.

00:25:29:09 - 00:25:35:00
Boaz
Yeah. The trading, the exchanges, like the most famous one that most people used is Coinbase.

00:25:35:05 - 00:25:35:15
Matt
Yeah.

00:25:36:00 - 00:25:55:07
Boaz
So yeah. So Coinbase is kind of a good starting point for a lot of people. They're coming out with their own wallet soon. It's going to allow you to be able to purchase NFTS. And so I think that's a good place to start. Coinbase and MetaMask are the most popular, but there's other ones, too, like Rainbow Wallet and and Voyager Digital.

00:25:55:07 - 00:25:59:10
Boaz
And there's there's other there's lots of other exchanges and wallets that you can use.

00:25:59:23 - 00:26:23:12
Matt
That well with the dogs going crazy I think we've covered a lot today. I read your input on this. I want to revisit this stuff with you because it's changing so fast and yeah, everything's moving. You know, in this world, it's kind of expedited. I mean, our own world is crazy change, but this has expedited crazy change. And I hope to have you back to talk about.

00:26:23:13 - 00:26:24:00
Boaz
Yeah, I would love.

00:26:24:00 - 00:26:33:12
Matt
These things because I'm just now just the tip of the iceberg. I just started looking into this and started being fascinated by all the things that are going on and the opportunities that seem to be there. So, yeah.

00:26:33:17 - 00:26:43:08
Boaz
And there's a very there's some very big players in the space that are accelerating things very, very fast. And so I think next time we get together and talk we'll see a lot of interesting changes.

00:26:43:12 - 00:26:47:23
Matt
Yeah, happy to have it. Well, thanks again, Boaz, as always. It's great to see you.

00:26:48:08 - 00:26:50:13
Boaz
Yeah, thank you. And thanks for talking to you.

00:26:50:19 - 00:26:52:07
Matt
You bet. Tuesday.