Matt sits down with Char Patterson, Principal at JPC Architects. Char arrived in the Pacific Northwest in 1980 when her military family transferred from Miami to Seattle; it was an instant attraction. Char is an Architect and Partner and has been part of the JPC team since 1994. The creation of interior space that reflects the culture, values, and goals of a business with simple, creative solutions is the goal.
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Matt sits down with Char Patterson, Principal at JPC Architects. Char arrived in the Pacific Northwest in 1980 when her military family transferred from Miami to Seattle; it was an instant attraction. Char is an Architect and Partner and has been part of the JPC team since 1994. The creation of interior space that reflects the culture, values, and goals of a business with simple, creative solutions is the goal.
Connect with us:
www.apexfacility.com
Connect with Matt on LinkedIn
00:00:00:00 - 00:00:33:15
Matt
We're super excited to have Char Patterson as our guest. Char arrived in the Pacific Northwest in 1980 when her military family transferred from Miami to Seattle. It was an instant attraction. Shah is an architect and partner and has been part of the JPC team since 1994. JPC focuses on the creation of interior space that reflects the culture, values and goals of a business with simple creative solutions.
00:00:33:15 - 00:00:38:07
Char
Welcome, Char. Thank you. Thank you for having me this morning.
00:00:38:13 - 00:00:53:22
Matt
Oh yeah. So super excited. Shah and I sat at a breakfast a month or so ago and were talking about all of the things going on in Seattle. So we have a lot to talk about today. But first, tell us.
00:00:53:22 - 00:00:54:18
Char
A little bit.
00:00:54:18 - 00:01:01:20
Matt
About your journey. I mean, there aren't too many women who are partners in architecture firms, period.
00:01:01:22 - 00:01:03:24
Char
So that is true.
00:01:04:01 - 00:01:06:04
Matt
But also a little bit about your story.
00:01:06:05 - 00:01:33:19
Char
Well, I it's I think I have an unusual story in that I knew what I wanted to do when I was very young. And so I dreamed of being an architect at about age five. Funny enough, but I think it was the influence of Mike Brady and The Brady Bunch. And he was an architect. So I watched that, you know, and I'm dating myself, but I think that might have been it.
00:01:33:22 - 00:02:01:14
Char
And my dad was in the Coast Guard, and so we moved every 2 to 3 years up until the age of 15. And I moved from Miami to Seattle right after Mount St Helens blew up and started my junior year at Newport High School in Bellevue. So let's see, I'm a cougar. I went to WSU, studied architecture and graduated in 88.
00:02:01:16 - 00:02:33:00
Char
I worked for two midsized, two small firms before I founded JPC in 1994. And let's see, I. I received my architectural license right after working for three years, which is kind of a piece of advice I would have to young architects and designers is get that stuff right after you graduate. So it's out of the way on the on the family side.
00:02:33:02 - 00:03:01:23
Char
Let's see, my husband worked for Washington Mutual up until 2006. And with the financial crisis looming and we had two kids at the time who were really young, he decided to be a stay at home dad. So that was excellent for our family and allowed me to venture on at JPC. So I became a partner in 2006 and have been the managing partner since 2017.
00:03:02:00 - 00:03:02:15
Matt
Wow.
00:03:02:17 - 00:03:03:03
Char
Yeah.
00:03:03:05 - 00:03:08:05
Matt
So very cool. And you're almost almost 30 years.
00:03:08:07 - 00:03:14:13
Char
Yeah, in fact, I have. This is my 30 year. Well, 29 years at 49.
00:03:14:15 - 00:03:44:09
Matt
That's a that's extraordinary, man. I mean, and I think also that there are a lot of, you know, people in our market who come and go, you know, in your industry and in mine where our industries collide, obviously, where we do all your services create the space and plans and space and we execute the delivery and installation. So and we've worked together on a number of great projects over the years, and we've always had great success with the projects with.
00:03:44:11 - 00:03:49:18
Matt
We worked with JPC. I think you've got great people and I mean that's a hard know.
00:03:49:18 - 00:03:51:03
Char
We're very proud of that.
00:03:51:05 - 00:04:17:19
Matt
Yeah, I think culture, I think culture is none of the number one thing. It took us a while to get figured out. I mean, we're closing in on 25 years or a little over 25. I think this is our 26 years and we've got it, in my opinion, the best culture we've ever had. Because guess what? I don't have to be downtown and in the office every day and these folks know their work and can do it.
00:04:17:19 - 00:04:24:07
Matt
And it sounds like you've got a great team of people at JPC that I know we the people we've worked have always been great.
00:04:24:09 - 00:05:00:13
Char
Yeah, And thank you. It's it's interesting how how things evolve. Yeah. And one thing that we celebrate here is everyone's perspective, which is can be challenging because there's status quo and precedent of how you do things. But being open and valuing others perspectives, you know, leads you into a new path. And and so we pride ourselves on that may be less rigid, you know, and and more évolue evolution in our business.
00:05:00:13 - 00:05:41:03
Char
So, you know, you mentioned male dominated industry, and I wanted to touch on that in that I really believe it's a state of mind and that's how we have to approach it. And, you know, don't let the bad choices or ignorance, which is a strong word of others, define your actions. Right? So and one thing about the interior architecture world, which is really what we specialize in, it's a true blend of interior design, which tends to be female dominated and the architecture side.
00:05:41:03 - 00:05:53:05
Char
And so bringing those two together, we kind of transcend that issue. And I, I kind of ignore it and assume that it's evolving. And do you my.
00:05:53:07 - 00:06:23:01
Matt
Yeah, my wife feels I mean, I've worked for my wife for 20 plus years and she runs Apex started the company in 94, and I believe she has a very similar philosophy to yours. And it's you got to make it. You got to do it. You got to it's your is. You're right about the state of mind. Her state of mind was never that she needed, you know, women business enterprise although we are women business enterprise was never something that got us anywhere.
00:06:23:01 - 00:06:51:12
Matt
But at the beginning, I remember 15 years ago we became a women business enterprise and we couldn't get anybody to work with us as we were growing and starting up. But today we serve very large clients who are more focused on their diversity spend than ever, and it's more meaningful. So we became a woman business enterprise just a year and a half ago, again at their request to count as their diversity vendor support partner.
00:06:51:14 - 00:07:18:19
Matt
So I find it interesting how the mindset is really, truly the key. I agree that a lot of people have and I think that today's world is a little different. I think there I know that people are starving or the young people coming in really need people like you. And to really help understand that, hey, don't expect anything to be given to you.
00:07:18:21 - 00:07:20:04
Matt
You got to earn your way.
00:07:20:06 - 00:07:21:08
Char
That's right.
00:07:21:10 - 00:07:24:24
Matt
You, man, woman, whatever. You know.
00:07:25:01 - 00:07:44:00
Char
I, I tend to call myself and folks in my age range seasoned, not experienced. Yeah, because there really is. I'm still learning things today, and especially over the last three years with how we've had to pivot.
00:07:44:02 - 00:08:05:23
Matt
Oh, we're going to talk about the business. So let's talk a little bit about who JPC serves and your primary customer mix. I know obviously we've worked with customers that you've done their interior space plan, their construction drawings, and you played that role. I know for many, many years you worked with building owners, doing test events. That's a little bit about your customer mix.
00:08:06:04 - 00:08:40:24
Char
Yeah, Yeah. Well, the office market really has been our main focus since 86, 37 years ago, and our first client was Microsoft and our first office was on their campus. I think we had about eight people at the time all doing Microsoft work, which, you know, in 86. And as we got into the nineties with dot com and technology that just ballooned and we got kicked out of the campus, they needed the space.
00:08:40:24 - 00:09:20:10
Char
And so we started our own office. And when I joined in 94, we had 24 people and through the years we've gotten up to 85 and now we're in Nice, 65 is our staff count, which is fairly good size, right? Yes, And yeah, we have we have fostered the relationships with developers and landlords in the area. As you mentioned, supporting the building and facility needs, which has, you know, that brings new opportunities to us in the single client phase.
00:09:20:10 - 00:10:03:12
Char
And we pride ourselves on those relationships. So we have many client long term relationships. Microsoft is still a client 37 years later. And and those are the fun ones, right, that transcend, I guess, business, the relationship to something more substantial. But with the two, the constantly evolving economy and the shift in office character and changing company needs, we've developed a retail, hospitality, industrial and manufacturing and health care portfolio and a set of clients, so.
00:10:03:12 - 00:10:04:20
Matt
A diversification of.
00:10:04:22 - 00:10:22:05
Char
Diversification. And while we specialize in interior architecture, focused on inside, we also do ground up, you know, small what we call specialty amenity gem kind of buildings on a smaller scale.
00:10:22:07 - 00:10:23:01
Matt
Got it.
00:10:23:03 - 00:10:54:15
Char
So we're we're very diverse. We also work nationally and internationally to support a lot of those local clients that have presence all over the country. So we have a great perspective on not only what's happening here, right, but what's happening on the East Coast, middle of the country and internationally, which it while there are similarities, it's very different things like construction cost and speed to delivery.
00:10:54:17 - 00:11:01:12
Char
Yes, East Coast, way different than West Coast. And back to the office is different.
00:11:01:14 - 00:11:23:17
Matt
So I couldn't agree. I couldn't agree more. We do probably more work out of the city of Seattle than we do inside the city of Seattle with the accounts that we serve throughout North America. And it is unbelievably diverse in terms of every market and the differences between those markets and the perspective that just the mindset that people have is really it's really interesting.
00:11:23:19 - 00:11:40:12
Matt
You know, we're a fast paced market and when we work in San Francisco, that's even a faster sometimes pace market where the speed to service is the key. You know, and that's really interesting. I didn't realize you did so much work outside of the market.
00:11:40:14 - 00:12:14:09
Char
MM Yeah, we we've been part of a group called One Global Design and it was started maybe 12 years ago by a firm in Philadelphia, and they wanted to create an alliance of like minded, like sized firms across the country and witness presence in Canada, Mexico and India and London, working together amicably, right, to support clients that have presence all over the United States.
00:12:14:09 - 00:12:18:05
Char
So that has been a great group to be a part of.
00:12:18:07 - 00:12:27:03
Matt
A network of ARC. I didn't realize there was such a thing, a network of architects that execute, perhaps trying to deliver that seamless experience, right?
00:12:27:05 - 00:12:27:18
Char
Yes.
00:12:27:24 - 00:12:35:04
Matt
Yeah. I mean, that's the goal. We have a couple of networks we work through for delivery and installation and relocation and that sort of thing throughout the country.
00:12:35:04 - 00:12:37:07
Char
And yeah, I think things are good.
00:12:37:08 - 00:13:00:05
Matt
This is a good thing because I have clients who could, I think, use this connection we're making on this network because I've always said what we really, truly need is to give a client. We have one client out of California who is an equity partner group. They have about 3 million square feet of space that their portfolio companies occupy throughout North America.
00:13:00:07 - 00:13:04:21
Matt
And it's new. It's a reinvention of the wheel with the R&D group in every market.
00:13:05:02 - 00:13:30:11
Char
Yeah, you have to start over almost. And you seamless is the right word. I think that because you might have design and standards knowledge in one part of the country with one firm, but being able to execute and implement in New York, you know, we we don't do that every day. So we rely on the firm in New York to support that.
00:13:30:11 - 00:13:33:03
Matt
So yeah, they know where the bones are buried. Yeah.
00:13:33:05 - 00:13:45:10
Char
Yeah. It's these days, it really is who you know. Right. And how you leverage those connections almost more than what you know in the facts and things.
00:13:45:15 - 00:14:07:14
Matt
Well, and that's exactly what's keeping us alive today, too, is diversification, which means we've always been a pretty much a 5050 company where we 50% of our business is service, relocation, installation, reconfiguration, all that kind of stuff. And then the other 50% is furniture sales as a dealership. And that's obviously ever always been our defensive strategy through all these weird downturns.
00:14:07:14 - 00:14:32:06
Matt
And I consider our market like we talked about at the breakfast, a downturn we're in kind of what is I think as a recessionary kind of deal. I know we are chatting about Seattle. Let's talk a little bit about Seattle. It we both, I think, agree that it's been a feel a bit felt like a bit of a recessionary market according to the Castle occupancy report.
00:14:32:06 - 00:14:50:19
Matt
We're you know nationally we're still under 50% occupancy in our offices and that's a national record of ten markets. Seattle is not one of those, but I think Seattle is probably under that and that would be on the good days, Tuesday through Thursday, I think Monday. And Friday we're lucky to see 30% occupancy.
00:14:50:19 - 00:15:06:24
Char
Yeah. When you see stories of buildings now with that are fully occupied with one tenant that are vacating and occupancy is 98% in some buildings. Yeah, that's concerning. But yeah.
00:15:07:01 - 00:15:28:14
Matt
Well and it just feels like, you know, we're doing a lot of outreach, trying to nurture, trying to, you know, get to anyone who will actually pick up a phone any more these days and have a conversation. The the whole general perception I have is analysis, paralysis and slowing of workspace and work, workplace planning decisions. How are you guys?
00:15:28:14 - 00:15:33:19
Matt
I don't know if you're I think you're kind of feeling the same thing, but how are you? Tell me if you are and how you're navigating that.
00:15:33:21 - 00:16:13:19
Char
Right. Well, it's interesting because we're seeing everybody do it differently, which is, you know, difficult maybe to to navigate. But shortly after our nine month mandated stay at home, when that lifted in early 2022, we saw almost a race to get projects completed at that time where the market had been dormant. I know it caused many companies to to feel like they had to do something or or react somehow to deal with that committed real estate.
00:16:13:21 - 00:16:43:21
Char
But we didn't have the benefit of seeing where the market would go or understanding the effects of what the prior years COVID impact was going to be. So construction budgets were even more scrutinized. You know, we were still living the big experiment supply chain issues. We're seeing that, you know, that has settled a bit in the last six months in that supply chain seems to be under control.
00:16:43:23 - 00:17:17:24
Char
Building departments are catching up, if you will. And they have the the the manpower, if you will, to get projects reviewed and done. But we're now seeing, I think, design firms, contractors getting exercise, I call it, and testing the waters where you might have a potential project gets priced by five or six firms where it used to be, you know, two or three.
00:17:18:01 - 00:17:52:18
Char
And and the company isn't ready to make a decision yet. So it sits for a long time. So, yes, yeah, we've always had that. Our our world is unknown and hard to predict as it is. Right. But it's just even more so now. So our reaction to that has been diversifying in new markets like we talked about, you know, health care was something we had the ability to do for for many years, but we didn't have a focused studio around it or put extra resources to it.
00:17:52:18 - 00:18:01:06
Char
And so we have done that now and that that is helping to counteract the unknown in the office.
00:18:01:11 - 00:18:25:01
Matt
And if it's anything like what we experienced over the last 5 to 7 years here, our market was just exploding with technology companies. How can you ignore a market that's doing I mean, 70%, 60% of our local market work was centered around this crazy expansion. We have very large and very long term accounts in the health care community as well.
00:18:25:01 - 00:18:42:18
Matt
We don't do a lot of furniture work there, but we do a ton of services and we've had change in asset management, those types of things. But when we when this thing dried up on us, we found that technology took the greatest hit and we seem like we had the greatest weighted focus because we had served it for so long.
00:18:42:18 - 00:18:44:22
Matt
I mean, it's kind of easy to putting all.
00:18:44:22 - 00:18:46:08
Char
Your eggs in one basket.
00:18:46:08 - 00:18:47:05
Matt
Yeah.
00:18:47:07 - 00:18:49:06
Char
Right, Yeah, yeah.
00:18:49:08 - 00:19:17:02
Matt
Yeah. So we're, we're to trying to better diversify, I think getting into small municipality because so much of our work is contract and it's direct with manufacturers. So we're looking at small municipalities and county to work with as well as health care, even some K through 12 or private education education stuff too, because it's all dialed in with manufacturers and supply partners that are been there for many years.
00:19:17:02 - 00:19:23:13
Matt
So hey, we're for profit organization, so you got to try to make money somehow, right?
00:19:23:13 - 00:19:53:05
Char
And at the end of the day, that that sustains your business. Yeah. Yeah. Something else that we're seeing wouldn't, wouldn't affect you yet but on the development and design side is what to do with all this office space. Right? There's a lot of conversation about conversion to multifamily. You know, can you commit an office building? And there have been projects in different parts of the country where that's been done.
00:19:53:07 - 00:20:12:03
Char
But to me that is still an experiment. And then life science, you know, as buildings are getting developed. Do you develop it for office or do you develop it for multiple functions that kind of right as you're seeing what the leasing appetite is?
00:20:12:08 - 00:20:30:03
Matt
Well, maybe that's a good thing because we have so many buildings, and I think you'd agree in downtown Seattle that are one dimensional boxes that they really to convert them to any type of alternative use would be almost cost prohibitive, is tearing the thing down and building it back up again. Right.
00:20:30:03 - 00:20:40:19
Char
Things like ceiling heights, you know, the structure and infrastructure, what the site can support can be limited and it may not pencil Yeah yeah.
00:20:40:21 - 00:21:00:00
Matt
In Tacoma I was reading about interestingly enough I was reading about an older building with a smaller floor. Like the floor place size is also a contributing factor of challenge here, but they went with a smaller like eight or 10,000 square foot floor plates. They could convert those to residential much easier. I think it's I think it's also MEP infrastructure and.
00:21:00:01 - 00:21:01:04
Char
So yeah.
00:21:01:06 - 00:21:09:04
Matt
Yeah, yeah. But you know the hard part, unless you're like a learning institution, I could see a university going vertical, you know, an office building.
00:21:09:09 - 00:21:12:24
Char
Yeah. And that that's a change of use that works pretty well.
00:21:13:03 - 00:21:13:23
Matt
Yeah.
00:21:14:00 - 00:21:40:21
Char
So to shift to an education use and that's actually a market I forgot to mention, we have several folks on staff that spent their career really public school and university work. And so we're starting to see a blend of that, that discipline with office and Montessori type uses, you know, going into more office structures.
00:21:40:23 - 00:22:04:17
Matt
Well, so getting back to interiors, getting back office interiors, are you seeing any kind of sticker state, a trend that sticks to design changes? I mean, we've all seen dramatic change. You know, the drama of the change over the last eight, ten years coming from workspaces, high panel walls down, smaller workspaces, open plan, height, adjustable desk.
00:22:04:17 - 00:22:07:18
Char
Clenching at 50 square feet. A person.
00:22:07:20 - 00:22:08:22
Matt
Yeah, yeah.
00:22:08:22 - 00:22:11:08
Char
I mean, that's kind of where it was going.
00:22:11:10 - 00:22:29:22
Matt
You know, in our industry, it went from $3,000 a workstation to just around a grant or line in terms of average kind of revenue base per workstation for open plan versus all the other amenities. And the complication of workspaces is.
00:22:29:24 - 00:22:39:24
Char
And a lot more reuse. Yes, as something has to be done with all of those tech floors and the contents on the.
00:22:40:02 - 00:23:01:12
Matt
But we're doing a ton of work with one Green Planet and we've done we had the Boeing decommissioned down four unit go down in their buildings down there. And what's interesting is they've figured out a combination or bland resource reuse and recycling that they can do reporting on to get a large percent average it repurposed and or recycled.
00:23:01:14 - 00:23:23:13
Matt
The challenge, though, is, as we both know, many of those planning styles of the past five years, even five years ago, aren't applicable for kind of that modern. But what I see what we're seeing is, you know, kind of casual conference, more hospitality drinks, social set, you know, like a like a like a lobby to a hotel, you know, that's what I want now, you know?
00:23:23:13 - 00:24:16:03
Char
Yeah, it's work. You know, alternative workspace is what you're seeing with and know that's something that we see all of our clients doing a little bit differently. You know, some are embracing the hybrid environment. You still have a signed desk skiing but have a lot more loose cash use user able to move and flex type of solutions. In the office, we have a client that has gone completely one extreme where they have a hub office, non assigned desking, a lot of meeting space to come together, but not in individual offices and that will be their model going forward.
00:24:16:05 - 00:24:40:03
Matt
Yeah, no. And I it's interesting the bounce back of of we work and work environments I think it's really interesting because they really took the biggest hit the quickest was during the pandemic and that planning style supports the flexibility that people are now looking for. Interestingly enough, I don't know how well a culture can survive and exist in some of these iterations.
00:24:40:03 - 00:25:10:13
Matt
You know, and I went to a breakfast initially breakfast, a crew breakfast, and they had t mobile dance classes. Yeah. And Carol rif Snyder there. And they were talking about the massive investment they've made in rebuilding the interiors of T mobile during the downturn. And what I felt kind of by listening in to what they were saying and they've they have a very they have an interesting demographic in that organization.
00:25:10:13 - 00:25:42:19
Matt
I think maybe a little more Gen-X to boomer leveraged rather than a lot of young people where they still want the landing, the residential workspace. They don't want a free address system because they were playing with free address systems and that sort of thing and experimenting and trying many, many experiments here and there. But the biggest thing they think that they talked about as a as, you know, kind of an attraction to get people to kind of work was their group up they have a point.
00:25:42:21 - 00:26:08:14
Matt
Yeah. Yeah. And and I'm like thinking to myself, well, I could see that very positively for kind of my age group and maybe Gen X just behind us. But the young people, you know, I think it's the equation to try to figure out is how the balance between young people coming together just to mentor and learn from people who have been in the industry for a long time and vice versa.
00:26:08:19 - 00:26:30:12
Matt
You know, I, I, Madeline here teaches me stuff. I mean, she rolls her eyes and stuff. She she would tell you, she rolls her eyes like, Oh, here we go again. Another technology. How the hell do I do this? But the balance of that learning from one another and having a culture I think is at the core challenge.
00:26:30:12 - 00:26:36:12
Matt
And I don't think amenities are going to drive people. I mean, in our community, commutes suck.
00:26:36:14 - 00:27:19:23
Char
It's terrible. Yeah. No I, I think hybrid work if your industry can support it right is is a good thing and that it would be you know being able to commute as far as limiting that and better value of time makes a better employee. Right. And where's I'm concerned and I'm a proponent of hybrid work. Right. But I fear that we're getting into more of an entitlement viewpoint than a you know, this is a benefit.
00:27:19:23 - 00:27:58:09
Char
I'm if I have flexibility, I can you know, if I have a meeting in Seattle, but my office is in Bellevue and my home is in Seattle, why not have the ability to land back in Seattle and finish the day at home? You know, I think that's a positive thing. But I think we do have multiple generations in the office and the younger, less seasoned ones, I think, are going to find that their career growth is going to be impacted in a negative way if they're not in the experience and the culture of the office.
00:27:58:09 - 00:28:13:12
Char
Right. And if if everyone worked remotely, most of the time, culture will suffer and you could work for anybody. And and I think that's the biggest piece of this that's going to take time.
00:28:13:14 - 00:28:45:06
Matt
Yeah. Your point around time before the pandemic, they said there was a very slow incremental step by step phasing to hybrid or to work remote. Right. It was like some slow progression over any errors. It's been 15% of the workforce or whatever, but with the shock of the pandemic and we went, you know, almost obviously 100% to remote and then now many people are resistant and we're still at a massive 50% culture.
00:28:45:06 - 00:29:06:15
Matt
Can't catch up to that. And to your point, culture may never catch up to that. I mean, how do we sustain culture without seeing one another and I learned my craft by over by listening to the phone calls of my bosses and my mentors in the office, learning about how to overcome objections and manage challenges and blah, blah, blah.
00:29:06:15 - 00:29:07:10
Matt
You know.
00:29:07:12 - 00:29:29:06
Char
And I think it's human DNA to you. You trust what you can see. And that's a simple thing. But I think it's true in that if you're not in the office on a regular basis, you lose out. On experiencing that piece, but you're also not seen, you know?
00:29:29:08 - 00:29:59:11
Matt
Yeah, well, I know and I've been trying for the last six or eight months trying to get somebody to come on the podcast who is a Gen Z, a digital native who had to do last year or to college or school remotely and now are kind of coming into this hybrid and trying to get their perspective because it's really a perspective that's, for me, kind of hard to under probably put my place, my I mean, I've been around for 30, almost 40 years.
00:29:59:11 - 00:30:27:00
Matt
I mean, you know, I came in a different era, different set of experiences, different perspective, clearly biases that I probably don't even know I have that are probably getting in my way. You know? Yeah. I don't know how to, you know, I guess trying to embrace the changes in the market, but also trying to also understand, you know, kind of how to navigate this going forward.
00:30:27:00 - 00:30:33:08
Matt
What do you see? What do you see? Where do you see this all going?
00:30:33:10 - 00:31:02:04
Char
I it's fine. So a couple of years ago when we were mandated at home, Right. My my sense was that the office market is going to soften and it's going to take several years as we navigate this experiment. Right. We're seeing that happen. It's been building now that we have these large vacancies, companies evaluating their needs and what the fundamental effect of that is on the culture.
00:31:02:06 - 00:31:26:13
Char
I think our DNA is to come together. And if if we can get to the point where it is viewed as flexibility, but recognize that we need that office space and environment, it can't just be at your house too, too. And impact change. You know, you don't want to do things the same way all the time and you can't evolve.
00:31:26:14 - 00:31:49:04
Char
I think if if you don't take that approach and my motto has been adapt or die, you know, you really have to move with what's happening around you because if you're stagnant, it's going to pass you by. So we have that outlook and I think we're going to come back to, you know, it won't be the same levels of office use.
00:31:49:10 - 00:31:52:11
Char
It will be different, but it's going to be there.
00:31:52:13 - 00:32:23:10
Matt
Yeah, I, I agree with everything that you just said and I think there are some Pollyanna mindsets out there still. Like, I had a I had one of the leading brokers in the community. Come on. And you may know Stuart Williams. Yes, great guy. Excellent. The High School of Stuart Eighties. But so Stuart came on and said, hey, you know a lot of people are looking at this like they did at the downturn you know during the banking crisis in 89.
00:32:23:10 - 00:32:25:00
Matt
And I go, Dude, it's nothing like that.
00:32:25:02 - 00:32:26:08
Char
Yeah.
00:32:26:10 - 00:32:27:10
Matt
So I never.
00:32:27:10 - 00:32:28:19
Char
Seen this kind of.
00:32:28:21 - 00:32:43:01
Matt
Yeah. And I think it's going to last longer to your point. And I think there are some serious spiritual moments that are going to come up for building owners around. Yeah, yeah, we already seen that.
00:32:43:03 - 00:33:10:06
Char
One thing I have learned through this, I tend to be a list maker. I get satisfaction when I check off something and I'm always moving forward. We have to be okay with holding on critical decisions until you act, you know, you actually have to make them. And that's not to not plan ahead. But the impact of what's happening around us is constantly changing every day.
00:33:10:06 - 00:33:20:07
Char
And so I kind of resist the temptation to make a decision earlier than you need to. And that's okay. It's okay to do that.
00:33:20:09 - 00:33:43:11
Matt
But great advice. Char Patterson. Yeah, I really I appreciate you coming on. I've enjoyed our conversation. I think we could go on an hour or so and I probably I can geek out as long as you care. I love it. But I really appreciate you coming on our podcast and sharing your thoughts and experience. And thank you.
00:33:43:13 - 00:33:47:22
Char
Thank you very much. I enjoyed it and look forward to more conversation.
00:33:47:24 - 00:33:49:24
Matt
Okay, great. Thank you.
00:33:50:01 - 00:33:52:20
Char
Thank you.