Ambitious & Caffeinated: Authentic Business + Marketing Strategies for Mompreneurs

The Shift: Breaking Free from 9-to-5

• Adrianne Hayward • Season 6 • Episode 3

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Welcome to the Ambitious & Caffeinated Podcast! 

I am here to help you make the shifts to build the business & life of your dreams on your terms. Psychology based & data driven, blending high-level business strategy with deep inner healing for maximum support + results.

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Speaker 1:

Okay, guys, this is probably one of my favorite interviews I've ever done. I have a new series called the Shift that's going to be on the Ambitious and Caffeinated podcast. So this is Taylor. We are working on this overall over-accompassing strategy to leave her nine to five so that she can pursue the business of her dreams. So let's dive in. You will see a few of these sprinkled out through the next month, but let's dive in. You will see a few of these sprinkled out through the next month, but let's dive in. Welcome to the Shift, a mini series within the Ambitious and Caffeinated podcast.

Speaker 1:

This is real coaching, real transformation, real time. You've listened to the podcast where people talk about their business and personal growth, but what if you could experience the breakthrough in real time yourself? And just in case you missed it, my name is Adrienne. I'm the founder and CEO. I am data-driven and psychology-based, and one of my favorite things is helping my clients make the shifts they need in order to build the business and life of their dreams. I blend high-level business strategy and deep inner healing work for maximum support and results. This podcast is perfect for you if you're wanting to break through a past revenue plateau, if you're feeling stuck in overwhelm, overworking, self-doubt or fear of visibility, or if you're just needing a strategy that finally aligns with your life, not just your financial goals. If you're ready to break cycles, rewire for success and scale with ease, it is time to jump into the podcast. Let's go. How are you? I'm really good.

Speaker 2:

I'm so excited for today, yes, and this time I did not miss the meeting.

Speaker 1:

So it honestly happens Like we I don't know, we're all such busy women Like I. Just I get it.

Speaker 2:

I get it. I get it, but I hate, I hate.

Speaker 1:

I'm very like type a, so when I realize I've totally forgotten about something, it drives me nuts yeah, you know, it's such a trigger for me too, personally, like the fear of being flaky, so I feel that on like a level. Yes, so it's, I get it. I know the entire point of this is to come up with a strategy to leave your nine to five, like that was the basics of that. So I'd love to hear a little bit more information. Um, and let's, let's dive like literally headfirst into this.

Speaker 2:

Um well, what information would you like? That would be most pertinent, I guess.

Speaker 1:

Wow, I mean, tell me a little bit about you as a person and cause I'm like we have not really chatted a lot and then, um, yeah, we'll start off with that and kind of lead into the rest.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, um, as a person, mom, um, so, um, I have a almost six year old and then a three month old. So, yes, hands full there. And then my husband travels a ton for work, so he's all over the US gone a lot. So most of everything is on my plate then, like during the week, um, so most of everything is on my plate then, like during the week, um, and then you know, like nine to five, wise, I'm a recruiter, but I think and I'm sure you relate to this, it's like mom, is it's so important that, like I show up for my kids, um, with whatever's going on, um, especially just in my own circumstances. I'm divorced from my previous marriage, so my almost six-year-old he splits time with me and doesn't have the best, um, I would say, circumstances out at the other house. So I probably tried to overcompensate to, you know, just always want to show up, always want to be present, you know, school events, all that kind of stuff. And I'm lucky I have a lot of flexibility in my current role, but I would love full flexibility and autonomy to my day, my time, just as I see fit. I've always been super driven, really career oriented. I've bounced around to a lot of different stuff, from PR to event coordination to HR recruitment, and I don't want not that being a stay at home mom is just a stay at home mom, but having a career important to me, like doing something that fills my cup outside of kids. So yeah, finding that balance would be great. And then just knowing what I have personally been through with divorce is what led me to divorce coaching, certified there are. Our system is very strange. Strange, like people can coach without any type of training and all sets, which is fine, but especially for, like, divorce coaching, I do think it takes a specific skill set. Um, I don't think should just be hopping into that without any type of um mentorship or credibility, because, um, there are a lot of people that get into the tricky minefield of behaving as a therapist, behaving as giving unsolicited legal advice, like the really dangerous areas.

Speaker 2:

Oh yeah. So yeah, there is the CDC, the certified. I'm blanking on what that is the whole, but that's like that's the biggest one. It's not a super credible. It's been around for a really long time. It's not super credible in the fact that they don't teach you a ton. You kind of just sit around in a group and share your stories and then it's just a bit different. So two women that had worked for CDC for a really long time one is like a mediator, all that. They started their own company, which is the divorce coaches Academy Super credible. They have their own podcast, all that stuff now too.

Speaker 2:

So I got my training from them in the summer of 2023, 2023. And then I did it was all summer long into fall into mentorship. That was several months long with someone that has been a divorce certified. So finish that and then, yeah, just kind of have been rolling from there but not taking as much on as I want to be. I think I just feel so all over the place. I never really know how to like focus my energy to get the clients I want on a consistent basis.

Speaker 1:

This is such a good conversation. Well, I think what obviously the most prominent question is like is the divorce coaching that you're wanting to dive into. Reason being is I was this sounds so familiar. I was like I swear we've talked previously.

Speaker 1:

We talked back in October doing a sales audit right, right before I had my baby yes, I'm like this is like I was like I feel like I'm like your face looks so like familiar. I'm like what is this? Um anywho. So I'm like this is like okay. I'm like this feels like a Um anywho. So I'm like this is like okay, I'm like this feels like a recap, but it's also like really important to bring up and so um, are you wanting to go into the direction of the divorce coaching?

Speaker 2:

Yes, I think where I get more in my head about it is I don't want to limit myself because I just enjoy like working with women in general, Um, of like career. I think a lot of that comes from like my recruitment background, so really helping like empowered. I think the biggest thing is like I really like working with women to feel empowered on pivoting like whether, yeah, so that's like the biggest thing. So I worry there's so much out there like niche yourself in, niche yourself in, don't be scared. But I am scared. I don't want to only focus on divorce and lose out on the opportunity to work with a bunch of other great women that might not be going through a divorce but are still having a really big change in the chapter.

Speaker 1:

So I yeah I don't really know how to do that, I guess- I, you literally could be like a life coach for women wanting to make a pivot Like. To me, like a pivot life coach is like, immediately what I'm thinking of, and I think it's so important because it's like women who are ready to make that next step in life and to make the changes that they've been maybe like subconsciously preventing or like there have been circumstances preventing them from making the action, and it's usually like this will help you a lot too, because you don't have to. You don't want to have people come to you happily married, to be like divorce him, like that's so not what you want, but right when people like, feel that and they're like on the tipping edge.

Speaker 1:

That's when, like, the investment isn't something that you have as many objections because, like they've decided, it's like the woman who is most ready, most able, most willing um to like oh yes, I see the value in this, let's go um. And so that's actually such a positive and a benefit for you because you don't have to do any convincing. I don't think any business owner should do quote unquote convincing but, like, for the sake of this conversation, in your content, it's not like why you should hire me. It's more, you'll hire me when this is your circumstance, which solidifies that investment that much more.

Speaker 2:

Okay, that's a good point.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, because I think where I have a hard time and why I end up offering my services to so many for free, honestly is it's not that I don't find the value in it, it's that, as somebody that has been through a divorce, I know how expensive it is.

Speaker 2:

It is so draining, so time consuming, and where I know there's real value in a divorce coach and helping you get your bearings and, like make the best choices you can make. Um, I also know that a lot of people, especially women and especially those in poor financial situations, can't, like you know, even if they would love the opportunity to work with divorce coach. They're thinking where, where am I going to find this In addition to the thousands I'm already spending on legal fees? Um, and so I have a hard time that because, like I know, it's not taking advantage, it's providing a real service. But I think that's like my own block of I just know how it feels to feel like, oh my gosh, like I am not going to be spending thousands in addition to everything else I'm dealing with on the back end.

Speaker 1:

So yeah, a couple things immediately popped up. For me was number one, like of course it is an expensive thing. Like, specifically, divorce is expensive 100%.

Speaker 1:

There's a few things that I just want to like up right say any type of coach or mentor is a luxury because they get you the thing that you want that much quicker, obviously, assuming that it's aligned and you're implementing in your personal life. It's like you know, a very highly trained therapist. They are. I don't even want to say an expense, but it's like it's obviously an investment, but it's going to get you there that much quicker. Instead of, you know, struggling with something for 10 years, you might be able to work through it in six months, right. So like it is a luxury, but it's for a specific reason.

Speaker 1:

There is this wonderful woman. She's an IVF coach. She helps women through IVF, and do you know how expensive IVF is? Like her stuff starts at a thousand dollars a month for coaching and like that's an additional fee on top of what they're already spending to conceive a child. Right, that's not even like her thing isn't. Like to help them, you know, guarantee their.

Speaker 1:

It's for emotional support and like a lot of times I shouldn't say that, a lot of times, but you know it's not like someone doesn't hire her and then all of a sudden, it's just the emotional support behind it. So even then, like there really isn't a quote I hate to say it like this, but a quote unquote guaranteed transformation. However, she's there as an income and support and that's a luxury, um, so I understand that for you, like, it can kind of be a mind work because you're like, oh, I already know, but this is where courses come in. A place like this is like I have a like this love language with my business, um, and it is thank you so much. Um, I was just seeing that my macbook was about to, uh, about to die and I'm taking notes. I was like husband, please, and thank you, but I can see coming back into the like almost like the mission of your business.

Speaker 1:

You can still have an impact on people with lower ticket items. Like. I'm personally a huge favor of low ticket. It's a wonderful way to actually qualify leads, have people come in, be able to support them. You can have a juicy course on everything that you need to know, like A through Z, for you know planning for their divorce, and have it be a mid ticket course, like anywhere from $300 to $3,000, with a payment plan, and that just be something that's accessible, so there is a payment plan available for them. I'm giving lots of ideas, but I'd love for you to cut them.

Speaker 2:

No, I, um, I'm all for ideas. I feel like that's where I get so caught up is like, okay, yes, like, but I don't know where to start my energy. And then, same with like, what we kind of talked about before I had my baby was I was like you know, I'm posting a little on TikTok, but I'm really not feeling like connected to it. For social media in general, I have a hard time feeling connected to it, to like posting, and I don't really know where to begin and I think a huge roadblock of myself is I get scared of being seen. So even though, like, I tell people about my business, you know like people like know what I'm doing, you know all that. When it comes to like my own, like my own personal Facebook or things like that, like I don't self-promote or do any of that, so then I don't know really where to be gaining traction, I guess for lack of well.

Speaker 1:

First and foremost, I think it's actually really important to know like it is, especially given everything you've gone through. Of course you don't feel safe being seen because, like divorce, it's like you basically spend that whole time trying to be in a little bit of in a shell. You do the opposite of being seen, you don't. You want to be completely avoided to make the process go smooth and so, like I understand. And then also being separated from um, you know, the father of your child, like there's con I don't want to say there's constant conflict, but there's oftentimes conflict and yes, so I understand not wanting to be seen, like that is a very natural response from your nervous system and your brain trying to keep you safe. That's literally their job. So like, yes, that is very normal.

Speaker 2:

Yes, and I still have a lot of people connected, obviously because of that child that, yes, you know, there's just, I know, a lot of not so great that could come from any of them being kind of like aware of what I'm doing, or just, yes, I definitely keep a lot of stuff very, very private. Um so, in a general sense, like I'm not scared of being seen by, like the general public, you know, by that, yes, that makes sense.

Speaker 1:

Um, first and foremost, like that is very valid and I completely understand that. I think it might be nice to have a signature package around making those pivots. And you know, being able to be like this is perfect for if you are about to or going through a divorce, slash, separation, looking to make a career change, or we can even speak to the overall like a lot of women are just like I'm sick of my own bs, like I'm so sick of my own shit and the role that I played in this and I want to make a change. And so I'm curious if, um, like, of course, like you were, um, you're very well educated in the divorce area. I know that you're like like this career thing and my experience, this would allow you the opportunity to have a signature package that's very customizable to one person without having to create a custom package for each person.

Speaker 1:

And then the social media side.

Speaker 1:

I feel like you can talk a little bit more broadly to like the career side and like the actual shifts and the desire that the women have.

Speaker 1:

And then on the back end so when I say back end, I mean like being in groups, for where divorced women are being in mom groups where they talk very openly about this and having like it's almost like a quiet back end strategy where you're quietly marketing yourself in a safe space where those people are not, and then you can get anchor yourself in on those Facebook groups.

Speaker 1:

Like Facebook group strategies are so amazing and I love them, but it's like it's a pick your poison type of thing, like what strategy works best and feels best for you, um, but I feel like if hopefully this doesn't step on toes, but I feel like the the thing about social media, it's probably hard for you to fall in love, cause you're like I can't even feel comfortable being on here talking about the thing I want to, because in fear of those people seeing them right For sure. It's like oftentimes our problems aren't marketing and business related, it's anything but, and then it affects our business and marketing, yes, and you're like that's exactly Okay. So I think my next question for you is like, out of everything we've talked about, what would be the most supportive, clarifying point of this conversation?

Speaker 2:

um, really what I can start to focus on, whether that is, like you said, like that back-end strategy with marketing, which I already feel like it's so many different things, but, um, like you mentioned the signature package, which also makes sense, but I think, um, yeah, the biggest one is really focusing on where to, or how to market to get those clients.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, so okay, this is like prerequisites. Number one I would go through everyone who you've helped for free. I would kindly reach out to them and be like, hey, I would absolutely adore if you were able to write me a testimonial and if you are not comfortable putting your name, I'll just put the first letter of your name, but if you're comfortable with me sharing your name, like obviously, given the unique circumstances of your business. But number one would be gathering all testimonials because it just aids to the proof of your services and support. So that's number one. It's also really good just having an entire bank of wins where people are like you changed my life and it's like some. We can forget about that. Um, the second thing is I would definitely come back down to and I know we just talked about this, but I would definitely hone in on your signature offer. Once you hone in on this, like I would look at and I'm taking notes and I will give you notes for after. So don't feel like great, I have to remember this all.

Speaker 1:

But part of what sells, naturally, a signature offer is having what your unique framework is, like the process that you take someone through. That is, I think, very important to understand, like what that is. And if you're like, oh my gosh, I don't even know what that is, I know that you know what it is. You've just not talked about it out loud, like when you, if you were to mansplain it to me, like genuinely mansplain it to me, it would fall into the cracks.

Speaker 1:

So, with the signature offer, it's more than just like what the deliverables, it's like what is the unique framework that you're taking someone through to get that result? Okay, um, so I'm just gonna write this out, um, and then, of course, like the pricing structure. I know that you've said like, oh my gosh, I am like basically just been doing it for free. I would. I, this is a really fun nervous, nervous system exercise that I like to do with my clients without obviously, having the deliverables. Well, do you want to dive into, like really roughly planning it out and then doing a pricing exercise? Then we can talk a little bit more about marketing or like what would serve you best.

Speaker 2:

That would serve me best, for sure. I think kind of zeroing in on what I should be actively charging, because then I can kind of like anchor.

Speaker 1:

I really like that, okay, well, I would love to hear, first and foremost, how, how long is this container?

Speaker 2:

I have a hard time with this one because with everybody it varies, right. So, because there are some people that I've worked with like off and on for decades, gosh like six months or longer, um, but then there's others where it's really just like they want to chat for a month for that support and and then kind of take a step back, um. So I'm not really sure, especially since it's pivoting, um, and that could obviously vary based on what somebody's circumstances are divorce, career, just themselves, um, I don't know how you'd even yeah, in a container.

Speaker 1:

So I'm kind of looking at this where I'm like one month is kind of nice to just like vent and get it out with someone, just like a safe space of like oh, like crap's about to go down. Um, I would really suggest that, like your minimum package would be between six weeks and 60 days, like that would be the minimum. It just gives you a little bit more stability, gets to know that person, and of course there's exceptions to the rule, but that's like the absolute minimum. In most life coaching containers it's like a three to five month package is usually the best because you're able to work through the framework, work through your signature process, and so personally, like I would choose something between three to five months. But I mean you like what, what feels best for you, because I know at this point you're like, well, we kind of just a month to month. Like I don't want to dysregulate you and be like great, now sign a year your long contract with someone, because I think that I be dysregulated.

Speaker 2:

I think three months would be perfectly fine and reasonable to ask, especially then I think there are some people that also maybe want more support consistently, but there's that maybe it could be spread out over those three months.

Speaker 1:

I like the idea of a six week and a three month. Gives people two different options, whether they're in the peak of something they just need brief support with or someone's like I definitely want to hunker in long-term. Um, it gives them that option, for sure. Um, what has your support structure usually look like? Bi-weekly calls, weekly calls, messaging support, Like? What does that look like?

Speaker 2:

Typically just weekly calls um virtual phone call if not virtual. And then there've been a few that I provided additional support with, messaging, you know, and things like that. But that is definitely not the norm, Nor do I really want it to be the norm. I do think that that takes away from, like, some boundaries and work-life balance when people have non-stop access to you.

Speaker 1:

I really like that idea too. A couple things is by just doing virtual weekly calls. It allows you to have like to close your computer and be done, because you need that flexibility. Um, also, it can be. I'm just gonna be very blunt saying it. When you're working with a demographic like this, it can be really hard for them to um, if they've especially been in an abusive relationship, specifically for the divorce side of things, they become codependent on someone else and it requires you to have extremely firm boundaries. I've just I've worked with enough life coaches and relationship coaches that I've seen that, and then it's almost exhausting because it takes away from the fun of business. So I I like this structure.

Speaker 1:

Yes, I, boundaries are very important to me, but yeah, yes, and I think that's actually I can tell you hold yourself very well, so I can see how this is actually going to be such an anchor for you and being able to like go forward really quickly. Okay, so tell me, I know that you didn't have done primarily free for your services, but what have you charged in the past? If you're comfortable with me?

Speaker 2:

asking yeah, so on an hourly basis, anywhere from a hundred to 160 is is kind of what I was like averaging which really going to that number is. Thinking about what lawyers in my area charge on an hourly rate and, even though I'm not providing legal advice, um going in at a fraction of theirs, knowing what's providing.

Speaker 1:

Okay, great. So, given this um, the six week would obviously be six calls Um, and then the three months month. We can just we'll just put 12 for really easy. I understand that sometimes there's an extra week, but just for very easy we're going to say six and 12. The four this is where the nervous system exercise comes in. I know we didn't get into necessarily the framework, but just we have a good outline. When it comes to the six week container, what is the lowest amount? We go on both edges. So don't be like oh my gosh, but like what is the lowest amount you feel comfortable for charging for that package. Don't overthink it too much. It's not going to be your actual pricing, I promise. Okay, eight, eight, 50, eight, 50. Okay, great. And what is the highest amount you could foresee yourself charging? Um, that almost makes you feel like you're going to throw up 2000.

Speaker 1:

Perfect. So what this exercise shows you is the range of like what your energetic minimum and maximums for selling are so like. If someone came to you and you're like 850, take it or leave it Like they're going to like your energy is just so much more certain, and anything in between, when you're making that sale, you're not like I don't know, do you want to buy it, Maybe, possibly, I don't know. Like it just eliminates that feeling. But then we can see where our own unique glass ceiling is in our business. I think that's a wonderful price range as well for you and it's something that is scalable and supportive. So I really like that. To move on to the three-month container I'd love to hear the minimum and maximum there and we can kind of see the gaps.

Speaker 2:

Okay, three months. You said what? 12 sessions? Yeah, roughly yeah. So I would say low-end 1,200. And high-end 35.

Speaker 1:

Um, and high end 35. This is okay. I just want to say this really quickly. It is so interesting because it is like it is double obviously double the work, but it's not double the pricing and I find that interesting. Um, yeah, I find that interesting, but also it's sometimes nice to have someone into a longer term container more revenue. Um, it's like you know, you can buy this thing in bulk. You can buy five of them at this price, or if you buy 30 of them, you get a discount. This kind of reminds me right structure. But I think that's actually a really good place to land. Um, most life coaches like most good life coaches start at a thousand dollars a month. Like that's a very normal place for them to start keyword start. So I could definitely see how that would be in alignment.

Speaker 2:

Yes, yeah, I think the logic comes more from thinking about. I think shorter term takes more energy. Like does Thinking about like the 850 to start, versus kind of pricing it per session out for the three months for thinking 12 sessions? Yeah, but yeah, I know that that's definitely like energetic work to work on as things like progress.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, I really like this and I think it's a really good place for you to start. It's not like you're severely undercharging, it's like a very beautiful place and it is livable. Because I've worked with people before where they're like, oh, I'm going to do a six month container and it's going to be a thousand dollars. I'm like, no, you're not, no, you're not actually no, no. So I'm like it's not even minimum wage what you'd be getting paid. I really love this because it's like a good start to get you comfortable. You already have the education. It's so good that you have the confidence behind your work. And then I think the biggest thing would of course, I'll send you these notes after. I think the biggest thing for you is like getting really clear on like what the payment looks like and the, the framework, and that's something that I feel like you will obviously play around with these, like the parameters that you kind of set for yourself and see what feels really good there. So I think that's a perfect okay. How do you feel about this? Good?

Speaker 2:

Yes, I like the two different options. Um, I like feeling more structured, like knowing what's like a hard line to target.

Speaker 1:

So yeah, so there are so many. There's an abundant of strategies for when it comes to lead generation, Like you could. There's 800 different things we could do, Um and I. I think this comes back down to who you are as a person, your time, et cetera. Um, one of the most tried and true ones is it's literally called free calls to paid clients. Like that's a very normal thing for people to do.

Speaker 1:

Um, for example, you could be offering pivot consultations for women who are ready to make a pivot and offer 30 minute calls. Of course, like I've always done this, no strings attached, like my. Of course, like everyone wants to have more sales coming to their business. But what I think would be really nice about this is it also gives you the opportunity to practice your framework and practice connecting with more people. But it also gives you like I'll just straight up, say this in the background a lot of the free calls that we, like I've recorded or my clients have recorded. When you transcribe them, you can put them into chat, GPT and ask questions about it to help you gain better content. Okay, so it's really beneficial for the content creation side of things. It's really beneficial to continuously exercise your coaching skills, Especially if you don't have consistent clients. It's a really good way to start getting really comfortable Not that you aren't, but it's a really wonderful skill. Um, I've seen people have anywhere between a 50% to 80% conversion rate on those calls, like literally not pitching them on the calls at all, but just by truly serving.

Speaker 1:

Because here's the thing, this is a very big for life coaches and just coaches in general, because people don't usually understand the value until they're in that spot. Do you know what I mean? Yes and so, and the other thing that I just want to bring up that this might be the most supportive for your business, given. I understand, with your time, I would probably do a brief application. If I'm being honest, Like, if someone wants to be on for free, I'd make them do some sort of application. Reason being is you don't have a ton of disposable time given everything, but we also want to be really strategic in having these higher end sales. The other thing that's coming up for me is the fact that these women are likely incredibly, incredibly hyper-independent. They've had to learn how to swallow a lot on their own, and I just think that this could be an opportunity for them to feel like you're not pretending to care, you actually care but like have them feel like, oh gosh, someone actually cares about me. This is like do you know what I mean?

Speaker 2:

Yes, I do. And how would you? And so I know, like with you, I know you use your Facebook a lot right For like the fall. So it's like if I weren't comfortable on my personal Facebook posting, where would I post for these?

Speaker 1:

Yeah, this would be really amazing for the networking and Facebook groups. Facebook groups are amazing for individuals who aren't really I'm just going to straight up, say not ready to commit to social media for whatever reason. I'm not saying you have a commitment issue with social media, I understand your side of things. But the Facebook groups are great because it's an established community with people working towards the exact same goal, and so for you, I think it could be really amazing with a tasteful like. It's a really simple thing, like if you see someone making a post like hey everyone, I'm really struggling with my current divorce, I'm overwhelmed, I'm overtired, I have no freaking idea what to do. What we do is, like number one, acknowledge like hey name. I'm just writing brief notes so I can make sure I like send everything, but I always acknowledge hey name. I totally understand. I went through a divorce as well and I definitely resonate with all of this.

Speaker 1:

Then two is the introduction. I actually work with a lot of divorce moms and I fully like, I fully see you in the season and the know. Just the introduction very briefly. The third thing would be like what the offer is? So I actually offer 45 minute consultation, strategy calls whatever you want to call them pivot calls, whatever it is.

Speaker 1:

Um, for women like you is completely complimentary. You just have to fill out this application. I will link it below um, I hope you get the support that you need. Like very brief um, yes, those get very good results because they can see, like the psychology, like you're, of course, acknowledging them, which every human being, regardless, wants to be acknowledged. Um, yes, really quick introduction, it sticks with them. And then the free thing. So, um, I will tell people, like, if you spend two hours a week in Facebook groups, that's when you start seeing the momentum. It's just the amount of time that you're spending. And, of course, if you're just scrolling in Facebook groups, you're not right. Like, we can't be like, well, if you're just looking at things and not doing things, but if you were spending time actively in Facebook groups for two hours in a week, usually it's like between two to four Facebook groups.

Speaker 2:

That's when you start to see a lot of momentum. Okay, and would there be any target Cause? I feel like when I do that now not exactly on the same level that you just shared, because obviously I'm not been offering like free consults- or anything.

Speaker 2:

But I'm in you know so many different mom groups and I feel like where I met with is like I guess are there different groups I can target that it feels safer to sell, because there's some words like that's a no, you know what I mean, like you can't um, or you're not supposed to do anything that resembles selling Right, because then people don't feel safe.

Speaker 1:

I'm actually going to look in one group. So, um, one thing, I would do go to any Facebook group. Most of the like, the bigger entrepreneur groups are really good, but if you go to big Facebook groups and go to the search bar that you can type up, I'm just going to type in divorce and see what kind of pops up. Um, so there's, I'm going to hit most recent. So you go to the Facebook group, you go to the little search bar and it will pop up. Um, there is a really big post in AlphaFem right now about divorce. I can send this all to you. Um, there's actually several really big ones, um, people looking for divorce or looking for support around divorce in these yeah groups.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, so I'm just like really quickly looking. That's one thing that's helped a lot. There's another post about if people could talk about, you know, dating, post-divorce. There's a ton of people being like, oh, I'm going through a divorce right now. So, just as a side note, like these bigger entrepreneur groups, they're really big about connection. The other thing is like, more specifically for entrepreneur groups, I feel like if it's done tastefully, like if you're seeing someone make a comment and you sent them a message and it wasn't like slimy, specifically for entrepreneur groups, it's very normalized.

Speaker 1:

Like yeah, like hey, I seen you make it, made a post in XYZ group about this. I just want to take the time. I usually send a voicemail because then people can actually hear that I'm not like throw your credit card at me and also social security number, please like I'm not like.

Speaker 1:

You know what I mean yes, it's more sincere it is and like people can actually hear your energy and understand. So, specifically for entrepreneur groups, I can't say that that's always the case when it comes to like just I don't want to say just mom groups, but just definitely NRG. So I'm hearing, I'm seeing a lot about this, like I'm still scrolling, and there's tons and tons of posts about divorce in here.

Speaker 2:

So I mean not great for them, but yeah, I get what you're saying.

Speaker 1:

You're like I don't want people to be divorced, but I want people to be supported in.

Speaker 2:

Yes, right yeah, because I mean, it is very, very common, more common than people even like to admit. Yes, yeah, and I, I like targeting a younger demographic as well. I think that's where, like, I pivot, um, just because I do relate a lot less to somebody that's been in a 50 year marriage, um, but it's not that I'm anti-support, that, it's just I feel like I can connect to a younger demographic where I'm like and not that it's ever too late, but it's more so like you deserve more, like for yourself, for your life, you know, and people obviously take you more seriously if they're probably not, like, 40 years older than you.

Speaker 1:

It's very true. There are groups that are called divorce and separation. Groups like that are very large. Just as a side note, even if you use this as a place for market research tastefully um, I feel like you don't have to say that to you specifically. But, um, what I will say is like that these groups would be really supportive even for just that like market research and really seeing where people are. Um, and I also totally hear you when, like someone's 40 years older than you, it's very, very hard for them, like I'm also younger as well, and for some people it's like I actually remember for a long time I lied about my age and, just cause I was just like, people just wouldn't take it as seriously. So I'm like, yeah, no, I totally understand that, especially in this delicate it is frustrating.

Speaker 2:

People think I'm also just a lot younger than I am and it's very yeah yeah. As much as that's a nice thing on, sometimes it's also discouraging when you're like no, I you know yeah, totally, I totally understand that.

Speaker 1:

Yep, I feel that on a spiritual level and also I think it's important too that, like the right people I know I don't need to say this, but the right people do not care about your age the right people I know I don't need to say this, but the right people do not care about your age the right people are still like, I'm so grateful to have the support. Um, okay, we've obviously covered a lot of different topics, um, but I would we do have obviously a little bit of time left. I'm just curious, um, what would be the most supportive way to wrap this up so you feel like you have your next steps and action steps in place and all that good stuff.

Speaker 2:

Well, I feel like, honestly, we kind of created the action steps through joining Facebook groups and starting that process and maybe targeting that you know um few hours a week and doing that and kind of seeing how it yields Um a week and doing that and kind of seeing how it yields um. I think then my next like action step as well as probably, uh, altering my website a little bit to the new tailored um packages and just kind of more around like that pivoting piece which I already have it on my website that makes the people understand it's not just divorce.

Speaker 1:

Totally. I really like the idea of the pivot coach because I feel like it just speaks broadly enough that you're not in this box, but it's enough that people are like I know exactly what she does.

Speaker 2:

So I think it's really supportive. Yes, and I like that a lot too, because, um, I am on my website, I say, like it's okay to want more, it's okay to pivot, um, so I like like what you said with the pivot coach. Um, yes.

Speaker 1:

But it's actually kind of coming up for me too is like I think this is a beautiful opportunity for you to make your own pivot and be bold about that. Because, like you're making your own career pivot and I think that, like, if you could document the process I don't mean like air out your dirty laundry, but even have like a google doc of like the feelings that are coming up and like part of the things coming up when you're supporting someone else with their career shift you can be like oh, I remember when I was really dysregulated about this, or like I actually like I think that would actually be really supportive, um for you in the process, if I do say so myself, yes definitely do you think I should consider renaming my business, because right now it's just revive and rise, yeah, and I felt like that was really broad, which is why I liked it Like I didn't want it to be like my name divorce coaching.

Speaker 2:

I wanted it to be like I do want people to feel like revived and rise from, like whatever they're going on, but just thinking about like the pivot piece. I'm just not sure, yeah, if that needs to be tweaked now.

Speaker 1:

I actually really like the revive and rise coaching Cause. I feel like I don't know, um. This might be too graphic, but it reminds me of like, like resuscitating someone and then they come back to life and it's like, yes, I feel like what you do with their, with with their career and their, their love life, like you're literally bringing it back to life, um, and not that you're doing the work for them. Life like you're literally bringing it back to life, um, and not that you're doing the work for them, but you're encouraging them along the way, like you are like a lot, speaking the truth into them that they so badly need to acknowledge and understand that.

Speaker 2:

anyways, that's why I like the name for the same. Literally, you just said it's that it's. You know. You everybody deserves you know, like a second chance to you know, like lack of a second chance to, like you know, do with their life what they want.

Speaker 1:

I and I absolutely love this and I'm looking at your about me and it's so interesting because, like I know that you've talked about the like the divorce side, but like it's funny, funny, not funny, haha, but funny in the sense of like nothing on your website is screaming like divorce coach. It's like you know what I mean.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, yeah, and I tried to keep it that way for a reason because I don't like being put in a box when I want to just help people so I really like the pivot, the pivot to pivoting, to be a pivot coach, okay, okay, cool.

Speaker 1:

there was one other thing that I, I we had. There was one other thing, oh, yes, I would actually love to know what your metrics would look like to be able to quit your job. Like how many, how many clients per month, what, what, if you're comfortable sharing, of course, like what would that look like?

Speaker 2:

So, so essentially now, like what I would really feel like okay to do to quit my job would be on an annual basis. So, however, that kind of equates to bringing in essentially six figures and that could be truly right at that six figure mark, ideally more, um, but yeah, but when I'm thinking about like well, honestly, probably even a little bit more than that, because when I'm thinking about being taxed fully for, like, businesses and stuff like that, I would say a little bit like into the six figure mark for sure, I feel comfortable leaving that like I feel comfortable leaving that like steady corporate America paycheck for sure.

Speaker 1:

This is so good. And I think my question too like this. This is a very big question and I don't expect you to answer it right here, but like have you considered what that process is between going full-time in your business and decreasing your career?

Speaker 2:

No, honestly, not really, and I think it's something I've asked myself. I have a lot of um friends who have, you know, gone to the self-employed route and, um, you know, there are those questions to ask yourself like, what are you scared of? You know, yes, you want your own schedule, but like, are you scared it's going to take more time away from your family, things like that. And, honestly, like, not really, because I think I've been on every side of the spectrum work wise, I've been unemployed in the pandemic, I've been, um, you know, overworked and like barely giving any time to my family, Um, you know, all of it through. So, like, no, that really scares me.

Speaker 2:

I think it's more um, I, I took a leap of faith back when, um, I got together, like right, when I had first done the divorce coaching, and I left my corporate job at the time because I was miserable and my husband was like I bet you, like I will, like, financially, we are fine, like take this, take this time. And I honestly only did it for three months and the reality was like I didn't put enough time, energy, effort, oh, sorry my dog.

Speaker 2:

Um, I um, just I don't want to say I dwindled, I didn't. I mean, I was still going through like mentorship at the time. So it's like it was really valuable for what I was going through to have the time to do it, but I didn't feel, um, I think I was still. A huge chunk of me was still coming down from the corporate America like, um, conditioning of eight to five, of, like, what does productivity look like? You know? All these things, I think more self-like, doubt, yada, yada, yada, whatever, swing it.

Speaker 2:

Um, so, so I think mentally like I'd have to be really really secure, consistently with this business piece to think about leaving, because I feel like I took the plunge left and didn't feel like I yielded anything from it and I did some ways, but for me, like I would need to see for sure the consistent, yeah, financials coming in to be like, okay, I'm in a great spot, like I believe in myself enough that this is going to continue, we're good, um, so that's probably like the biggest thing also, I think this is actually such a good conversation too because it's like we stability is the best friend, like stability is your BFF, and I feel like once you can create stability, that's really when I don't want to be dramatic, but like your life changes.

Speaker 1:

Because let's just be so real Like that's when things really change for us as humans. Um, cause we can make, we can take bigger steps without feeling like, oh my gosh, this is all going to crumble, because it's really difficult to make a big moves, like for in the future, if we can barely focus on, like getting by in the day to day. Um, so I actually love this conversation. Um, I did take a look too, and if you were charging $2,500 for your three month um which was like right in the middle of what you had said you wanted to charge, it would be 40 clients for the year, okay, um, which would be 13 clients, kind of like on a rotation which I feel like when you really think about that, that's and not to um be discrediting to the work, but like I don't think that's actually that many 13 clients on an ongoing basis. I think it's very doable.

Speaker 2:

And that's fine. I think it's more the concern that I'll get into a point where I back myself into a corner where it's like I've, um, what's the word I'm looking for, Like front loading a ton.

Speaker 2:

Yes, yeah, then not have any for months or something like that. And I think like, especially when you think about the work, like you said, like you know, you have to allow so much energy spaces in between clients. It's not like you can just say, okay, every day I'm going to be back to back, because it's not doable. No goodness, I wouldn't be providing the support. Anything that they're asking for, paying for, you'd be stretched, so then. So I think that it's more getting to a point, and obviously I think that's like long-term, where I'm charging an amount. I'm comfortable with. That. I feel it's fair and value, yes, and then able to take on, like less consistently but still a good amount, like providing consistent support, but still like preserving my own energy as well. In addition, I think if you take on too many, then you run the risk. Maybe you're financially secure, but like, are you mentally stable? You know, like being able to be that person for other people is, yeah, very interesting yeah, I so agree, um, because it would work out to.

Speaker 1:

If we round up, it would be like 14 hours of calls a week but then it is like a six figure per year business, right, not including taxes, not including expenses, right.

Speaker 1:

But there's obviously other things you have to do, like lead generation. If you're doing social media, yes, etc. Which would probably bring things up to 20 hours per week Once again six figure business. But then I feel like there are other things that you could do. Like, once you build up that clientele and that consistency, I could definitely see you doing courses, like on specific topics, whether it's like the career pivot they need like, or like the divorce package that we kind of briefly talked about, a membership, a mastermind or program. Like I could really see you having those things um for a hyper scalable option that supports you on the backend and then, once we have a really beautiful, robust offer that people can come into and get supported, that one-on-one really does get to be like I'm just going to say it like a more luxurious price point because there is an option that already is hyper supportive but also is an opportunity for us to be scalable. Does that make sense? So it's like completely.

Speaker 2:

yeah, I would love to eventually have more like group offerings as well that make it more affordable, like a weekly basis, um, maybe a few different groups, whether that's like focusing on like the divorce relationships and that side, or like career side, or whatever it might be, um, and then transitioning to where it's just like more affordable weekly group sessions and then also on my time and then higher end one-on-one session.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, and I really love this too, because it's like you don't necessarily have to take this term, but it's like I can just see this being like a university, like you come in for the thing that you need and like the course you need, the program you need, and it feels like it's very universe, the pivot university.

Speaker 2:

I mean, yeah, I want to empower people to make the pivot.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, oh, my gosh, I just adore this so much. Okay, I have a ton of notes, so I will be over, but we have like five minutes left, so just if there's any questions that you may have. Wrapping this up, which I know is like a loaded question, Honestly, not really.

Speaker 2:

I feel really good about the way to start kind of like marketing to individuals a lot more comfortable, cause I feel like before it's like, there's so much I feel like I've been scattered with in terms of social media that I've not been consistent with, cause I also don't find, um, the joy, the security there, like it's very much like okay, you know, I was posting when I felt like okay about it, but not enough that I felt like it was. I felt like it was just kind of like a waste of time and energy. Um, so I feel good about like where to start. Um, yeah, so I feel good about like where to start. Yeah, yes, okay, thank you, sorry, I have construction in my house.

Speaker 1:

So no worries at all. I love this. I'm going to like drop a little bomb before we leave too. I could see you connecting with other divorce lawyers in the area and letting them know what you do, because I'd be a very easy referral, just as a just to drop that ball right there.

Speaker 2:

That's where it's a little tricky and I will be straightforward with this. So, like I actually had some friends that were divorce lawyers and stuff, it's not something that a lot of divorce lawyers feel comfortable wanting to refer and the reason being is, theoretically, we lose them money. Interesting Because I'm ADR certified, which is alternative dispute resolution. So the biggest thing is, like, my goal is I don't want people to go to court if they don't have to. Obviously, sometimes it's inevitable, but our court systems are really, yeah, just a whole mess.

Speaker 2:

And it's like, okay, for instance, say, um, I have a divorce client and she's like, you know, I think that my husband, um, he's hiding a lot of money, like I'm, he's hiding so much money. Okay, well, a divorce attorney is going to say, great, I'll get you a forensic accountant. Um, you know, let's find this money. Basically, um, and it's not that they don't want their their best interests are there, but they're they don't really care financially about the client's best interest at all. Like, a divorce attorney is there to get their money, to get their client money, like from the other person, versus as a, uh, divorce coach, I'm sitting there and going, okay, let's be, let's just think about this for a minute, like how much money do you think they're hiding? Okay, well, if a forensic accountant is costing you $10,000 and let's say your spouse is hiding X amount, how much more is that really going to actually give you in monthly like child support, you know? Is it worth? It is basically like the goal of what I'm doing. And so divorce, yeah, don't really like. Love us.

Speaker 1:

I think it's also such a testimony.

Speaker 1:

Though and I'm gonna be very blunt it's like those aren't the type of divorce lawyers you'd want referrals from.

Speaker 1:

Anyways, right, it's very much so like four quarters versus a hundred pennies, like for me, like it's the same thing with therapists and like kind of what I do Cause, especially for my one-to-one, and even like some of my group stuff, like it's very much like the emotional work.

Speaker 1:

Um, however, I have my like four quarters and it's not like a huge part of my business, like I'm not putting all my eggs in that basket, but I do get a generous amount of referrals from therapists because they're like they don't know, like it's just like whether they're done a therapy and they don't think they could serve them more. But they are so like you're not gonna have every entrepreneur or, pardon me, every lawyer say yes, very four quarters over a hundred pennies in that, because I hear what you're saying and it's like most industries don't want to share. But like I found my four quarters in lots of different therapists that refer other ad strategies, because I do the ad strategies for a lot of other companies, like we I found my four quarters and we refer to each other because like that's what, community over competition, yeah.

Speaker 2:

I love that. Okay, that's a good way to look at it. So, yes, okay, I'll. I'll revise my thinking a bit on it.

Speaker 1:

It's like we covered a lot. So if you're like that's like on the back burner, like it's not like a major way to grow a business, but it's a, it's a really wonderful way to just.

Speaker 2:

The community piece is still important. For me, especially where I'm at. Community is really important.

Speaker 1:

I'm in a big is really important.

Speaker 2:

I'm in a big thing but yeah, yes, so I do like the idea of having the community referrals one way or another.

Speaker 1:

It's really nice. Oh my gosh, I could keep chatting.

Speaker 2:

I will not take up any more of your time. I appreciate it.

Speaker 1:

No, of course, I'm just like I love this conversation. It's so good. Um, I will send over to you. I'll just do you prefer if I email or just send it over on Facebook messenger. Does that matter to you?

Speaker 1:

either either is perfect perfect, I will type up these notes and I'll send it over to you, and I'll also give you the recording of this call, so you can just right, okay, whatever, and then, um, it'll be on the podcast as well. So that, yeah, amazing. I'm grateful for you. So thank you so much for your time and just everything. Thank you for your time as well.

Speaker 2:

I hope you have a wonderful rest of your week.

Speaker 1:

Thank you, you too, all right, bye, bye.