Embark on a transformative exploration of sustainable home construction with Frank Geskus from Prime Design, who joins us to share a trove of knowledge on building homes that not only endure beyond the standard lifespan but also promote a healthier environment. Discover how Tasmania's heart beats with innovation as we navigate through the complexities of creating living spaces free from the grips of mould and inefficiencies. Frank's personal evolution from shop detailing to spearheading a multi-faceted design and engineering firm maps out a journey that advocates for a holistic approach, ensuring our future homes stand as testaments to sustainability and architectural elegance.
Our conversation takes a turn towards the foundational aspects of construction, scrutinizing the vital practice of thorough preparation and crystalline communication before the first brick is laid. The industry's pitfalls, such as contract rushing and under-budgeting, are laid bare, offering a blueprint for avoiding costly oversights. We stress the importance of transparency in builder-client relationships, articulating the art of accurate pricing and the significance of detailed documentation. Moreover, we ponder the delicate art of balancing client expectations with the pragmatic realities of custom design and construction, ensuring that both parties embark on a journey of creation with aligned visions and understandings.
Finally, we address the call for continuous innovation and education, especially regarding waterproofing and insulation techniques crucial for a home's integrity. The chapter unfolds a narrative that extends beyond compliance with building codes, encouraging the industry to aim for excellence that exceeds the bare minimum. It's not just about constructing better homes—it's about forging better lives through the structures we inhabit and the knowledge we share.
We're on a mission to elevate the professionalism of the residential construction industry, and help everyone enjoy building and renovating homes.
Easy to use Quoting software for Builders. Produce professional and accurate proposals. Quickly and accurately measure and markup plans in minutes. Win more jobs and track costs. 21 Day Free Trial.
check out more podcasts here...
https://levelupwithduaynepearce.buzzsprout.com
Embark on a transformative exploration of sustainable home construction with Frank Geskus from Prime Design, who joins us to share a trove of knowledge on building homes that not only endure beyond the standard lifespan but also promote a healthier environment. Discover how Tasmania's heart beats with innovation as we navigate through the complexities of creating living spaces free from the grips of mould and inefficiencies. Frank's personal evolution from shop detailing to spearheading a multi-faceted design and engineering firm maps out a journey that advocates for a holistic approach, ensuring our future homes stand as testaments to sustainability and architectural elegance.
Our conversation takes a turn towards the foundational aspects of construction, scrutinizing the vital practice of thorough preparation and crystalline communication before the first brick is laid. The industry's pitfalls, such as contract rushing and under-budgeting, are laid bare, offering a blueprint for avoiding costly oversights. We stress the importance of transparency in builder-client relationships, articulating the art of accurate pricing and the significance of detailed documentation. Moreover, we ponder the delicate art of balancing client expectations with the pragmatic realities of custom design and construction, ensuring that both parties embark on a journey of creation with aligned visions and understandings.
Finally, we address the call for continuous innovation and education, especially regarding waterproofing and insulation techniques crucial for a home's integrity. The chapter unfolds a narrative that extends beyond compliance with building codes, encouraging the industry to aim for excellence that exceeds the bare minimum. It's not just about constructing better homes—it's about forging better lives through the structures we inhabit and the knowledge we share.
We're on a mission to elevate the professionalism of the residential construction industry, and help everyone enjoy building and renovating homes.
Easy to use Quoting software for Builders. Produce professional and accurate proposals. Quickly and accurately measure and markup plans in minutes. Win more jobs and track costs. 21 Day Free Trial.
check out more podcasts here...
https://levelupwithduaynepearce.buzzsprout.com
we're actually building sick homes, yeah, and then potentially we could have houses that don't structurally perform in 30, 40, 50 years time.
Speaker 2:G'day guys. Welcome back to another episode of Level Up. We are on tour in Tassie at the moment and we have an absolute cracker for you today. Um, today I've got Frank here from Prime Building Design, or Prime Design, prime Design, prime Design, and Frank is a master of a lot of fields in the preliminary process. So building design got a surveying company, structural engineering company, access consultants or disability access consultants, and we've just been having a quick chat before we got into this, and I can tell this is definitely going to be a cracking podcast. So, welcome mate, how are you?
Speaker 1:Yeah, I'm really well. Thanks for having me.
Speaker 2:I'll tell you what I'm loving the Tassie fresh air.
Speaker 1:It's certainly fresh. It's getting more fresh too.
Speaker 2:Yeah, well, look what are we. We're in late March and it was down to 11 degrees or something last night.
Speaker 1:It's been a good change. We can get lower than that for you, mate you know you're alive in the morning, yeah, mate.
Speaker 2:Well, let's get, let's get straight into it because, um, I think we've got a lot to a lot to um discuss here. So you're, you've managed to build other businesses around your well, design actually isn't your first business, but you build other businesses off the back of being passionate, yeah, about your staff and what they're interested in and all those types of things.
Speaker 1:So tell us a little bit about how you've got to where you are so I started getting into the building industry in shop detailing of all things still shop detailer so I did my engineering drafting course, gone to shop detailing, and then I got caught up in the recession we had to have have, which smacked me around a bit, went to uni, studied engineering there, then ended up working for an engineering consultancy firm, which gave me another chance, and I was there for 10 years as a structural tech officer but ended up doing mining, industrial engineering and I loved it. It was great. A few other things happened during that time.
Speaker 1:I had some builders talk to me hey, do you do house plans Back in the day when anyone could do it, anyone that could hold a pencil. And then from there it just started doing a few plans. I had one particular builder that guided me how he wanted his plans drawn. So it was all clear in all the trades and it was a very interesting learning experience that was, and also how to dimension. It was a great experience for me and I was just absorbing it all in. I was learning a whole new area of the industry.
Speaker 2:Yeah, well, you're obviously very passionate about what you do. Because I can be a little bit sceptical about stuff like this because you hear people all the time that get into design.
Speaker 1:A lot of people think they're a designer, especially a lot of clients, and that's okay.
Speaker 2:They can be.
Speaker 1:They know what they want. That's not a bad thing.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but there's a lot to it, isn't it, of course? Like getting orientation right and, like we were talking before, like you want to get more into the healthy home space.
Speaker 1:Oh, certainly, certainly and Certainly, and also the more efficient homes as well, and wanting houses to last longer than what they're designed for. Wouldn't it be great if houses could last over 100 years. I'm dubious, as we're building them at the moment. Are they going to get past 50?
Speaker 2:Yeah Well, mate, that's definitely a topic that I'm interested in because one of my biggest drivers to be a builder was that my great-grandfather was a builder. Like we spent a lot of time in a house that he built on a farm um sawing the timber, everything done by hand, like all those types of things. Wow, like I'm not I'm assuming it's the same down here in tassie, but like up we like getting out in the country a lot, um away from br, southeast Queensland, and I love that you can drive past houses that are 100, 120, 140 years old and, apart from like they might need a repaint or a new kitchen or a bathroom, like the structure of the home is still really good and I think about, and so my goal is that every house I build, there is no reason that it shouldn't be there in 100 years.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and that's awesome.
Speaker 2:Totally awesome To me, that's true sustainability, oh 100%. The fact that these volume builders are building homes that are actually designed for a 20 to 30 year lifespan like what the hell.
Speaker 1:And, as we've spoken before about some of the requirement, the national construction code not keeping up with other requirements like the bushfire, the star rating for the thermal performance. We're actually building sick homes, yeah, and then potentially we could have houses that don't structurally perform in 30, 40, 50 years time.
Speaker 2:Did you just call them sick homes. Yep, you're building sick homes, that's. I haven't heard it put like that, but you can you can?
Speaker 1:we've seen it. We've seen mold. I've popped my head up in a roof on a house and the trusses were like moldy bread. You had to see this thing to believe it was insane so I really like.
Speaker 2:So you're also a registered builder yeah, so you're covering all bases. So your knowledge. And then, like you mentioned before we started recording, like you've built a lot of these other businesses off the back of seeing or bringing staff in and like helping them progress in their field yeah, and you like seeing people better themselves? Yes, but like you, having the ability to have a bit of knowledge about everything from the detailed survey at the beginning of the job to the structural engineering, to the design, to the building standards, that's got to benefit everybody in your team, all your team would be learning and have a lot more experience.
Speaker 1:Oh, 100%, and that was just the passion. As my team has got bigger, it's been harder to teach, but now what's really cool to see is that the senior guys have been with me for a while. They're running the business now, and now they're passionate about teaching the rest of the guys yeah, it's teaching in our industry is really important.
Speaker 2:It's massive, especially by guys like you and I that are passionate about what we do. We have to pass on what we're learning to younger people. I think I'm very passionate about teaching apprentices, carpenters and things in my business, but also just having conversations with people, like you said before ask questions, listen, oh be a sponge.
Speaker 1:Yeah, be a sponge you. You know, I'm still a sponge. I just don't have enough time to learn as much as I want to, because you know it's addictive, isn't it? It is. And since I started, you know I got business coached and that's when I really started. You know reading, listening to books. You know I've become more of a sponge, love it and now I can't get enough of it. You know it's fine. It's unreal once you start delving in oh it is.
Speaker 2:Isn't it like? And and it is yeah.
Speaker 1:People hear me say all the time like the best money you can spend is on yourself, like getting some form of business coaching or training without doubt or self improvement yeah, for me that was one of the biggest things you know, because it pointed me in directions, especially the business coach I had. It was, it was on so many different areas. It was just magnificent. Yeah, and it has led me. Then. People have come to ask me for advice and stuff and I'm helping them and coaching them in bits and pieces, even though I'm not trying to coach.
Speaker 2:But I'm happy to help anyone yeah, well, yeah Well, it's because you're passionate about it. You want to see people better themselves. You want everyone to succeed. Yeah.
Speaker 1:You know even my sub-consultants that I use. You know we use, you know other engineers because we just don't have the capacity sometimes in our own business. It could be civil engineers, bushfire consultants, doesn't matter. I want them to succeed as consultants. I don't want them to lose money when they do work for me. Everyone's got to win. Everyone's got to enjoy working together.
Speaker 2:So when people, especially clients, they hear these sorts of conversations, straight away they just go to dollars. Of course, if everyone's making money, everyone's running good businesses, it's going to cost more to build. But I'm keen to hear your, I'm keen to hear your opinion on this, because I I don't think it necessarily has to be that way, because I believe we touched on it before, like in my training business, we teach builders how to do this pack process, paid as a consultant. Yeah, absolutely game-changing for the industry. And and I know you're very big on collaboration but I believe when you're, when you create a team so that the client, the builder, the designer, the architect, and then they help liaise with more consultants, you bring in surveys, you bring in certifiers, all these types of people but when you actually spend that time in the beginning and everybody's on the same page, you can actually deep dive into, like you said, listen to the client, what are they wanting and then, like I see my role in that is, I educate the team on what it will possibly cost to get that outcome, of course, and then ultimately the client makes the final decision and tells the team what they see value in. And I believe when you follow this process. Building doesn't have to be more expensive because it's all documented and sorted out before you go to building contract.
Speaker 2:I think the reason that so many people just see the dollar signs and think that everything's going to cost more because they're using consultants that are making money and running good businesses and all these types of things, is because they don't put enough time in, they don't work as a team. They get to site and then shit starts getting sorted out. Like you got the builder the first day on site and I know, I know I can speak from experience with this. I'm sure you can as well, because I used to like the first day on site because it was all rush, rush, rush. Here's the plans. Give me a price, give me a price, give them the price. I want to get to contract. I want to get started. No one, including myself, was putting in enough time. First day on site oh, we've hit rock or the engineering doesn't match the design.
Speaker 1:You dig a hole and this soil looks different to what's on the report. Yeah, what's going on?
Speaker 2:I'm a huge fan. People need to not rush that at the early stage, like they need to work as a team, resolve everything, do side investigations and ultimately go to contract everybody knowing what's going on I couldn't agree more yeah and being clear and knowing what you're getting for your money.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and this is where I see in the building industry there's a big issue where you've got people you know, businesses, builders that actually make sure they're pricing exactly what they want. So it's specified. Yeah, not on the other side, where you've got provisional sums, I, whether you know, allowing 10 grand for your kitchen. Well, that's a load of rubbish.
Speaker 1:It's a 50 grand kitchen every day of the week because of they want and yet they because the customers look at their quote and it might be on a one pager and they've allowed for this. Oh yeah, that looks really good. It's 475 000 and I get my house with everything I want. You are not going to get what you want. Your document should be very thick with all the drawings, knowing from tap to sink, light fitting, wall panelling, whatever it may be. You're very clear and that takes time getting that right.
Speaker 2:That shits me, it's one of my big hates and it blows my mind that consumers I don't know, I don't want to call them dumb, but I overlook.
Speaker 1:How do you know? You don't know what you don't know? Yeah, and we talk about this a lot. Yeah, and even though you try to educate them, they don't necessarily want to listen. Yeah, am I getting the wood heater I want? Well, yes, because you've specified, but you didn't specify everything else, so you didn't specify.
Speaker 2:They make assumptions that they've got documents like yourself, yeah and because, and like I'm gonna put my hand up and say I'm gonna piss some builders off, but builders are the problem when it that what we're talking about? Because if you have some builders, some builders, but if you because I've always taken this very personally, like I believe, if I'm giving being given a set of documents, yeah it is my responsibility as a professional to inform the client on what is on those documents is going to cost.
Speaker 2:And it blows my mind because back so back in the day, exactly what you were talking about, I would when I was tendering and stuff, yeah, I would get told I was too expensive and the first thing I would always do would be ask the client if I can run through the provisional sums. And you, I think it's funny, you pointed out kitchen, because I used to always go straight to the kitchen oh, it's hilarious and I would have had my cabinet maker price it and it'd be $86,000.
Speaker 2:And then you'd look at the other quotes they'd been given and they'd be a provisional sum $20,000, $30,000, $40,000. And I'd say to the client look, I don't mind if you don't go with me, but please do your homework. Go back to the other builders and ask them to get the joinery priced by a cabinet maker and 9.9 of the time, any builder that took my advice and started asking.
Speaker 2:So I would basically give them the questions to ask the other builders, they'd come back to us and we'd get the job a lot of the time it wasn't because, like they might have got a cheaper cabinetry price or whatever the case may be, but the reason they come back is because we were honest from the beginning.
Speaker 1:Funny. You should say that We've had similar things as building designers. We itemise everything, all the consultants. They go off, get other prices and that's fine, get other prices. Have a look what you're getting, but make sure you're getting it. They might just be getting a set of building drawings Same thing, but ours includes. You know, we itemise structural engineering, geotech. I've got a quantity surveyor if you want it. You know, and I itemise all these things. When you get a price from some people, they're just giving you the basic drawings and not coordinating anything.
Speaker 2:Yeah, or it's five pages. That has an elevation and floor plans, doesn't have joinery drawings or whatever elevation.
Speaker 1:See it's interesting because, depending on the builders, some people don't opt for joinery drawings or whatever elevation. So it's interesting because, depending on the builders, some people don't opt for joinery drawings with us. They go straight to the joiner and do that. That's fine as long as you're willing to. You know, work with them directly that's fine.
Speaker 1:It's different levels of service that people want from us as well, which is unlike for you guys. There isn't a different level of service. You've got to build the whole thing. How can you do that if you don't have all the right information?
Speaker 2:Yeah, do you think? Like I know from my building business, it's something we really encourage the clients to do now is to get the full package, get the wet area drawings, the joinery drawings, because, again, it's all detailed. It's all on paper. We can price it accurately.
Speaker 1:The extent of the tiles. Wouldn't that be nice? No, we offer that service as well. Some people take it, some people don't. Yeah, it's up to them how they wish to progress on that. So, matt, what do you think about building codes?
Speaker 2:Yes, the building codes. Give us your honest opinion, Matt.
Speaker 1:Contradictory and not keeping up with the goals of the government. So government wants to get better thermal performance out of houses. The building code, the national construction code, is lagging behind. They've introduced bushfire codes. You know the bushfire attack levels. You now want to increase your thermal performance. We already have documented history of condensation and mold issues through houses for the last 15 years. Yet they're not addressing any of these, nor are they doing studies that combine all these items they're trying to take care of condensation and stuff a lot now with the new not even close.
Speaker 1:no, not even close.
Speaker 2:No, but yeah, they haven't. And look, maybe I missed it, but I don't. I think it's like everything you have, the squeaky wheel gets the oil, so you have certain people pushing an agenda, yeah.
Speaker 1:I'm afraid it is. Mind you, when you look at the board that controls that, it is massive, because you know I'm part of the BDAA.
Speaker 2:ex-president and I'm aware of the effort that we go to represent the Building Designs Association, isn't it Yep? Building Designs?
Speaker 1:Association of Australia and we know the effort and money that we put into to get people on that board and the amount of work they have to do is huge. But I cannot believe the load of fluff and bullshit that they're going through. When the classic example we were talking before waterproofing it came out under the NCC-22, new housing provisions, waterproofing, yet it contradicts the Australian standards. So then you've got to pick one or the other. Now, how's that for a building surveyor? Which way to go? What about for a builder? Well, which way am I going to do it? Shouldn't they all be the same?
Speaker 1:It just defies logic. Yeah, oh mate, I'm on the same page, and it took them three years to come up with that. What a load of rubbish. They just smack around the head because they couldn't get their stuff together, that they couldn't coordinate, and why would you have something that contradicts and I know some people are not going to be happy with me saying it but all us designers, architects, you builders, everyone are doing their head in over this stuff.
Speaker 2:Oh, mate, yeah, I've been to so many seminars to try and get my head around this and the people that are running the seminars, including industry bodies and associations, are basically on stage scratching their heads saying, look, we recommend you do this, but if this doesn't work, then you need to do this.
Speaker 1:If this doesn't work, doesn't that give confidence to the homeowner?
Speaker 2:And the thing is I've gone blank with the wording deemed to satisfy. Yes, wording deemed to satisfy. Yes, like this deemed to satisfy.
Speaker 1:Yes, as per the rules, has been coming up everywhere.
Speaker 2:And so, basically, they can't give you a straight answer, so they put it back on you to come up with a deemed to satisfy answer.
Speaker 1:What a load of rubbish, isn't it? Yeah, on the most and it's the the biggest, one of the biggest insurance claims in housing Water.
Speaker 1:You know when we talk waterproof for bathrooms it's the failure of that, and I've seen heaps. You know, when the Tasmanian legislation building legislation got updated in 2016, we were all pushing to have mandatory waterproof inspections. Nope, didn't do it again defies logic. So we're still having failures on brand new homes. I don't have a house that we designed out of just up the road here and they uh, the builder couldn't get his specific tiler and waterproofer in to do the job and the owner goes.
Speaker 1:no, I, I know someone. Okay, we'll take it out of the contract. Two years later, not only the bathroom was basically failed, waterproofing, the water then spread to two bedrooms, took out the joinery, it went into the laundry, damaged the cabinetry there. It ended up being like a $55,000 bill. Yeah, and the builder goes. Well, you didn't use mine, you used yours. It's on your head.
Speaker 2:Not the case, and guess what?
Speaker 1:The owner chased up the tiler. What did he say? Put his metal finger up and racked off.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:What are you going to do, sue?
Speaker 2:me. Well, it's something that builders don't take seriously enough. And, look, I learned this the hard way. But, as as the head lead contractor on a job site, the builder is responsible for everything that happens, whether they're whether the client engages them or not like it's something. It's a minefield that builders need to be aware of but, waterproofing.
Speaker 2:Um, I actually got this waterproof. He got really pissed off at me um a few years ago when I was first starting to do some stuff on social media. So we make our waterproof and water test. Well, we do the water test.
Speaker 1:You do the flood test innit. Yeah, good on you, awesome.
Speaker 2:And so it's built into our job schedules.
Speaker 1:You've allowed for it cost-wise.
Speaker 2:Well, it's me. People will watch the fucking block and they see a bathroom, waterproof, tiled and finished in two days. It actually it's impossible. It doesn't even make code.
Speaker 1:That frustrates me, when they actually show that and people expect it and we've had that too and I says I'm sorry, we're not prepared to be involved in that type of discussion, or even on our drawings or even talking about it.
Speaker 2:It's ridiculous. It's for TV.
Speaker 1:If they want to risk it on TV and they've got their own certifiers and build a signing off on it, knock yourself out. But doing it once, doing it right, so it lasts a life, or until you decide to get a new bathroom.
Speaker 2:If I'm wrong, someone reach out and correct me if they're listening to this, but isn't it actually the code that you have to water? Test your waterproofing in a shower area?
Speaker 1:It could be, it's not mandatory In. Tasmania. It's not mandatory. It's not even mandatory to inspect it. It's like not mandatory to inspect insulation.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's another. Yeah, we can definitely deep dive into that.
Speaker 1:Oh man, that just drives me nuts here. Six-star home Some random guy's put in the plaster. He's not even qualified, never done a course on it, jams it in there and it's supposed to meet six-star, rejects you to run a thermal camera on it and she's leaking like a sieve.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, I'm very interested in the thermal camera, but I just want to tell this story because we had this waterproofer, so we've always used a really good waterproofer. He's done a fantastic job and for a while. Pre-covid, we were quite busy and I had this guy reaching out to me on socials that wanted to do our waterproofing and we needed another waterproof. So I reached out to him come and did a job and anyway, he's done the job and I'm walking around my phone doing a video talking about the progress of the job and mentioned that the waterproofing's just been done and the team will come through once it's dried and we'll do a water test. So we we stick a balloon in the drain and we we put a felt pen mark on the wall and we basically leave it for 48 hours and see whether it's moved. And this guy's no other builder. I do waterproofing for hundreds of builders. No one water tests them like it's. It's all good. This is the first job he'd done for me. Coming the next morning he was on a renovation. It had leaked. All downstairs had a pinhole in it anyway. So I'm back on my camera walking around the job and I've just mentioned hey, we, this is the reason we water test, because it's you never know what can happen. And it's it's got a tiny little pinhole, but it's just enough and now that we've picked it up we'll give it another coat and it'll all be sorted before causing more damage. Blah, blah, blah.
Speaker 2:And this guy he like I never mentioned his name, I didn't like say anything, but he went off, he was fuming. He's like how dare you? Like you did a video telling that I was, I'd done the waterproofing. Then you did a video saying it was failed and went off, like when this went on for a couple of weeks, wanted me to take the videos down and I was like mate, look it's. I haven't mentioned your name, no one knows who you are like he goes. But I did a video telling people I was doing your work. I said well, that's not my problem. But long story short, he was fuming that we tested it and that it failed what's he fuming about?
Speaker 1:well, he got caught. That it failed no.
Speaker 2:So when I got to the bottom of it with him because we had some pretty heated arguments, it was stress, because he was concerned that the hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of other jobs he'd done might like. I was like well, that's what happens when you don't water-press your shower areas.
Speaker 1:Interesting, isn't it?
Speaker 2:I'd be thankful that this is what happens in the industry.
Speaker 1:Well then you learn oh, I'm not perfect. Yeah, none of us are perfect. Yeah, so we learn from our mistakes. Okay, awesome, I can fix that. That's a dodged a bullet.
Speaker 2:But it's such a simple thing. Like blow a balloon up, stick it in the drain, fill it up with water and let it sit for 48 hours. Big deal it's going to add two days to your job schedule.
Speaker 1:Whoopie-doo, yeah, beats when you've got to rebuild the thing, doesn't it?
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And it's not just the waterproofing then yeah. I can't get the tile again, I can't get the you know.
Speaker 2:So how do we? What do you think a solution is for this? How do we get around? My view is that we've got to do it ourselves. I feel like you're doing it, I'm doing it. You have to surround yourself with quality people that are all wanting to achieve, like I say, the extra 1%. They want to go that extra 1% all the time and keep making things better. Have you got any theories on how we can improve the industry and make people do?
Speaker 1:things better when I look at the building code and also manufacturers' recommendations, but specifically the building code, I feel it's like a minimum. Why are we going to the minimum? The?
Speaker 2:volume builders.
Speaker 1:Well, it's not just volume builders.
Speaker 1:I deal with some volume builders and they're really good at what they do. Their processes are good, their builds are good. They back it up, they go back, they fix stuff. Because no one's perfect. They back it up, they go back, they fix stuff. Yeah, because no one's perfect. But when we're always aiming for a minimum or the line in the sand set by the building code and I'll use box gutters for an example why would you design to a minimum of the size of your gutter which is carrying all this water for a certain rainfall intensity, why wouldn't you go 20%, 50% more to make sure that there's no chance, even if you get a really huge storm, that it's not going to come back inside and wreck the inside of the house? It doesn't make sense.
Speaker 2:Well, it's common sense, isn't it Well? There's a bit of shortage of that?
Speaker 1:Well, it's common sense, isn't it? Well, there's a bit of shortage of that. But to me, I've always believed in try and go over and above what the minimum is from a design aspect, that things work. Okay, Now we all know from a designer's point of view and a builder's point of view that might be different too, but, like box gutters are a classic example, the amount of failures is unacceptable and even going to the minimum is unacceptable.
Speaker 1:Go over and above. Make sure it's big enough to run a broom in. It's flashed far further than it has to be. The joints are mickey mouse. You've designed it so there's plenty of room to get. Fall doesn't have to be the minimum fall, just get a bit more fall in it. Get the rain heads oversized, your overflows oversized. You know what's the big deal. By doing it bigger than it has to be, or smarter, or you do the water put another coat on big deal. We don't do wet decks. You know outdoor decks, tiles, so many failures we've seen. We'll refuse to do them. They have to be concrete now. Yeah, we've gone the same way. Oh, it them.
Speaker 1:They have to be concrete now yeah, we've gone the same way oh, it's astronomical, even with the types of the windows, just all sorts of things, how you do certain decks, how you get your driveways to work, all these things around your home. And it's just everyone's aiming for a minimum.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it is actually mad, really thought of it like that, but you're 100, right like why, like we, on our jobs, we definitely go above and beyond, and my team know, like that's like I'm away for three weeks now and I had a team meet with my team yesterday and I told them I trust you all 100%. Like you know, our standard is above and beyond. Yeah, yeah, why are we working to a building code that is?
Speaker 1:Yeah, and being associated with standards, I'll use footings. In my background, you know, with my years past doing structural engineering, I had builders skimping on concrete and carrying on. I can now tell the difference between certain builders how do you skim on concrete?
Speaker 2:What do you mean?
Speaker 1:Oh, we've got to put some board piers in. Or you know the founding where we've got to sit, sit, the bottom of the footings. The material's not real great. We've got to excavate out. Oh no, it's concrete. I've got to get a variation all this. I've got builders that just do it now as a matter of course. They'll get down to a better bottom, chuck more board piers in. They've got it built in. It's not a big deal. They just don't want the problem with your foundations later on. Yeah, you know, same with.
Speaker 1:We put a lot of drainage all around the house. Now. Prior to that, we used to have houses because in launceston we have highly reactive clays and we had because we're in a valley water movement through the clays and the sand layers through there and got some really nasty stuff. But it's also knowing how to deal with it. One of the best things we did was actually put drainage all the way around the house, as in. It's also knowing how to deal with it. One of the best things we did was actually put drainage all the way around the house, as in. It's not required. Yeah, but tell you what it's always been expected that the landowner, when they you know the homeowner, they're going to do their own landscaping put their own drains.
Speaker 2:They don't know. They don't know.
Speaker 1:They're asking their elbow when it comes to drainage. And why should they they? They don't, so we put it on there. We put heaps of pits, ag drains, cut-off drains, swale drains, whatever we have to do to protect the home. And because it's on the drawings, it has to be installed that way. So the builder and the plumber have to price it. I've had them complain about it, but you don't have problems later on.
Speaker 2:Yeah, because we on yeah, because we site draining is a massive one. We do it on all of our jobs, even if it's, even if there's no field gully shown on the drawings we do.
Speaker 1:But why isn't it shown on the drawings? Well, it should be. It should be weird, isn't it?
Speaker 2:yeah, well, most all the designers and architects we work for. Now it's like I actually, like you said before, I like that you collaborate with the builder, like you said before you love it, talk to some builders and and you work your drawings around what they required.
Speaker 2:That's what we do now, and even a couple of the guys we work with up home are now coming out to the job during construction and we're talking about what needs to be done to get air conditioning ducting to work, or why something that was shown on drawings isn't quite working because of something that's come off on site, so that every set of drawings moving forward, we can have more detail.
Speaker 1:And that's a classic thing. You just said the AC, you've got a ducted AC. It should be built into the design, especially on two-story homes.
Speaker 2:Yep.
Speaker 1:It just again defies logic. Yeah, especially if you've got floor trusses and you can fit it in nicely. It's super neat. Why wouldn you do it? Well, exactly why wouldn't you? But how many people?
Speaker 2:don't think of that, or the designer isn't told um, I love it. Yeah, well, no one brings it up. And then the owner's like oh, can we just add ducted air conditioning and yeah how?
Speaker 1:yeah, now you're gonna have bulkheads everywhere, yeah you know.
Speaker 1:So it's got. A design has to be well planned and, like I said before, the best results I've had is working with builders, especially on really tough sites. Collaboration oh, 100%, you know. Working with them, you know. Plus with the engineers, the geotechs.
Speaker 1:We had a problem on a job just recently that something with the soils did not match the geotech. Geotech was there the next day, had a look. No, I'm confident with this next day. How to look? No, I'm confident with this. It's fine, you can continue as is, you know, and I don't go for the cheapest consultants, I go for the guys that are going to give me the best reports, yeah, best support. And the builders love that, yeah, and rightly so. You can't sit around with an excavator sitting there for a couple of days waiting for bob the geotech to turn up, go yep, that looks all right and walks off. Yeah, you know, he's got to know what he's doing. He knows the type of soils. He can tell that it's fill. You know, we've got sites here where it's subdivisions and they put a heap of rubbish over it. Well, there's rubbish buried in the site. Yeah, we had some shockers like that.
Speaker 2:But but so many builders again. I firmly believe that everything comes back to dollars. They don't? So there's this stupid thing in our industry that builders are all competing on price and it's like this race to the bottom and they feel like they've got to be the cheapest to get the work.
Speaker 1:That's every industry, though. Yeah, it is, it's called build design engineering architecture.
Speaker 2:It's all the same, but it's edge. It's educating your clients on what you do, how you do it, why it needs to be done. And yeah, like we've we've managed to build an incredibly successful building business around knowing our stuff, educating our clients doing things correctly and, like so many builders and I guess, like you said, it'd be all interesting to be yourself as well people you will attract what you put out. So if you're putting out there that you do things better, you take things more seriously. You, you take, you're more professional, all those types of things, you're going to attract a better quality of client. And so, instead of whatever it is architects, designers, builders out there whinging about the quality of clients they're getting, that's because you're actually like. You're attracting them because of the way you're doing business, like right, it's totally agree with that yeah I totally understand people will pay.
Speaker 2:People will pay for what they see value in and and generally the value is using someone professional, that's going to solve their problems and deliver them a good product.
Speaker 1:Agreed. The challenge we find is when people come to us, they might have disillusionments about what they want and what it's actually cost. Yeah, and that's a constant battle we have. Oh, I want to have polished, concrete, this. That the other it says well, are you prepared to pay this amount of money for this? Oh, it shouldn't cost that much. Well, no, it does.
Speaker 1:Uh, we had a great example the other day. Um, a client came in from the mainland looking for designers and they were open, honest, we're talking to four different designers and architects. No worries, I've already been to one firm, who's made of mine and told them what he thought the cost was going to be. And we go, we totally agree with that. We backed him up on what it was per square metre, subject to how they want to fit it out and all the rest of it, and they were surprised that we agreed.
Speaker 1:And he says well, our job is to know some of these numbers. We're not quantity surveyors, we don't look at all the pricing that comes in on projects, but we've got a rough idea what the square metre is, subject to the style, the complexity of your site and the potential to fit out that you want. Yeah, you know, we need to know a reasonable amount of that, and they were pleasantly surprised. Well, everyone's on the same page. But it also this other building designer. He's really good at what he does. You know, yeah, you know different companies, different thoughts, but we're on the same page, yeah, and we don't care if it goes with him or us, it doesn't matter, you're going to get a good result at the end of the day do you um?
Speaker 2:I always like to ask designers and well, engineers and stuff even like do you um ever do any homework and get costings back for the final cost on the jobs you design?
Speaker 1:we actually option it on every project we. Do you have an option of a quantity surveyor? We prefer going to quantity surveyor rather than builders because some of the builders they have chosen aren't really interested because they haven't got the gig so they don't invest.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Now.
Speaker 2:How do you find the Quantity Surveyor pricing Good?
Speaker 1:This guy's really good because he prices for a lot of builders in Launceston, yeah, so he knows their rates. He knows their rates, you know, and it's fine. It's really good, because that would help you a lot Like you.
Speaker 2:knowing the finished cost of what you're designing obviously allows you to give that educated information to your clients.
Speaker 1:Yet I've had I remember one client in particular. We had it there there are the numbers Really customised, it was awesome what they wanted and in the end they go yeah, yeah, yeah and then got to building approval. They got their price from the builder, which was pretty well in line with the estimate, and accused us of going over budget.
Speaker 2:It's a common story.
Speaker 1:We're going. We gave you the figure. Did you want to go ahead? Did you want to cut back? No, go ahead. And then he got his price from his actual builder and we were pretty close. He went off his nut, yeah, and I'm going. Am I missing something here? We told you.
Speaker 2:It is. It's really funny how people operate with that and, again, this is part of the reason for doing this podcast and educating people, clients. I think you'd probably agree with this. What we do is like nothing else. No, like you go to the shopping center, you walk like you.
Speaker 2:It's the old shopping, the trolley scenario like you can go to the shops, fill up two shopping trolleys level to the top, and they could be hundreds of dollars difference, because it's what's in that shopping toilet that makes a difference. But like a car you're going to buy a car, like, especially these days, like it doesn't matter if you go to five different dealers because it's all just set pricing, that's right. And what options do you want? Yeah, and it's. And it's a?
Speaker 1:yeah, it's all price like. I want the performance pack, I want this, I want that but a house is especially a custom house.
Speaker 2:Yep, you're drawing it for the first time, the builder's building it for the first time. Like we've got a client that we're going through this conversation with at the moment. Like your house is custom, yes, like why, is this process taking so long? Because I can't buy your front door off the shelf. I can't buy your tiles off the shelf, like everything you want is custom. So custom takes time.
Speaker 1:We have to figure out your expectations at least three times as long. To even get it up to that point from a design and then from a construction point, you'd have to be adding at least 50 in time, wouldn't you? Yeah, at least subject to getting these items or a delay in shipping or manufacturing well, because of our process.
Speaker 2:We do this pack process, we get everything. So our ultimate scenario, which we aim for in every single job, is we go to contract when everything is selected, the design signed off, the scope of works is confirmed and they've made all their selections. And that is how we can have such a smooth process. We can schedule the job, we can order materials, we can book trades. But look, I get it is. It's hard for clients to understand, but and that's the way I always explain it like we're building.
Speaker 2:This is the first time your house has been built like it's been designed for you, it suits you, we're pricing it. So, yes, we've got data from other jobs, we can compare things, but you like this particular job. The owner's actually designed his own front door Cool, and he's questioning he's been giving me a hurry up why haven't you got pricing for that yet? I was like, because I've had to go to a custom door maker to price it and then, because of the weight it is, we've got to find different fittings and the pivot's going to be this and there's all these things that come in, and how much is that door going to cost?
Speaker 2:That's probably going to be $18,000, $19,000.
Speaker 1:So you've got an $18,000 front door. Now for people listening to that, think about that $18,000 someone's willing to spend on a front door. That's extraordinary, but they see value in it. Exactly Nothing wrong with that in. If, to that person, that is the perceived value, that's what I want. I'm cool with that. It's when then, all of a sudden, they want this certain glass window, they want this wine rack, they want, you know this twin ovens with this, you know ridiculous extraction system. They want, want, want, want. But they don't have an endless pit of money. Now, this is in the custom world.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:It's no different, because we do a lot of project homes as well with builders. It's the same thing, it's just on a smaller scale. Yeah, so you know, front door, front door. You choose a standard front door. It's going to cost you a thousand dollars installed, yeah, but they might choose one that's two thousand dollars, same with your floor coverings, your tiles, your all this type of stuff. And you end up with this big list and I like some of the project builders and they itemize everything. This is what you get, this is what you're not getting. Yeah, and it has to be that way. To think you're going to work with a builder to say I've got pc items and you're on a limited budget. You know, you're clear what you want to spend. You got rocks in your head. You seriously do, don't you? I mean?
Speaker 2:I think the volume builders do do that whole pre-construction process very well and, like you said, because they have such itemised lists and they are very clear on what's not included, I think the custom home industry could take a lot away from that and how they lock people in.
Speaker 1:Agreed agreed.
Speaker 2:And then, like custom builders, like I said, the process of educating the client what they possibly want is going to cost and then getting them to tell you what they see value in, like it's just, it's huge.
Speaker 1:But what blows me away is when customers expect you to do all that work for free.
Speaker 2:Oh well, that's again.
Speaker 1:That's another expectation for certain customers. Don't expect for someone to sort out pricing and all the bits and pieces of your house for nothing yeah, I'm sorry, but that's plain rude.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, and again that I think a lot of that comes back to having a system that vents those types of people. So that people actually make it through to get getting your time, value your time.
Speaker 1:Exactly. And we're very blunt with that now my favourite type is a customer telling you what to do.
Speaker 2:Not.
Speaker 1:I think you better find someone else. Yeah, and seriously, we do get that.
Speaker 2:So you touched on it, or you've touched on it a bit, especially before we started recording. But listening Of course listening is massive touched on a bit, especially before we started recording.
Speaker 1:but um listening. Of course, listening is massive well, I think there's a.
Speaker 2:A lot of the issues you see in our industry are because people aren't listening, and but all sides, builders aren't listening to clients, clients aren't listening to builders and designers, and so you end up with this final design or final price that just hasn't been understood oh, even I really will go pretty well, the whole project would go to custody before you get to the final price.
Speaker 1:yeah, because they're asking questions. What are you talking about? We have the same thing, you know, for you to come to me. It says I want to do this extension house, whatever it could be commercial. We do a lot of commercial as well, and it's understanding what they are wanting and what their ultimate goal is. And then we go through and we ask heaps and heaps of questions, maybe a few hand sketches in front, to figure out what they want. And that could be as simple as doing a deck on the back of someone's house, to doing a project home, an extension of blocky units, a new warehouse, a retail outlet, it doesn't matter what, it doesn't change.
Speaker 1:I remember, uh, an old designer mate of mine, uh, mike cleaver, awesome designer, absolutely fantastic, and I remember him talking the most important thing ever what we do is your scope. Yeah, if you get that wrong, the project's never on the right course, the end result won't be right or the client you're going to be unhappy. So we obviously have people that are very clear what they want. Sometimes they come with their own designs. Fine, happy to help you sort that out. Other side you need something custom, happy to sort that out. Some come, need something custom, happy to sort that out. Some come they're not sure but they want something. So then we have an arrangement where we do a concept stage for them. We're just working with them hourly rate, sketching ideas, get surveys for the site, what they're thinking, and we try and flesh it out with their budget as well. So we're looking at certain sizes, but we also highlight challenges to the site. Tell you what there's not many flat sites in Launceston.
Speaker 2:Well, I only just drove in last night.
Speaker 1:I can see that. Yeah, you can see that, can't you? So it is then building the scope. From there we can price stuff.
Speaker 2:Scope's huge. Like I think everyone underestimates the scope, like every like you scope engineer, like everyone, and again that's why our pack process is so valuable. Like we actually have a pre-construction preliminary agreement which has a scope in it which details how many meetings, how many site investigations, how many times we're going to price it like it's.
Speaker 1:It's huge yeah, that's fantastic. At least you can track where you're going with the project. Yeah, so do you work directly with the designers or architects?
Speaker 2:well, we all collaborate, so the guys that do it very closely with us up in brisbane. So we basically with the look. So a perfect example. We had a new client coming yesterday fantastic client. Um, they've come to us for our socials. I've had my meeting with them. They asked for referrals. I referred them to two, uh, one architect, one designer that we work with. They like, within an hour of me leaving that meeting, they'd already reached out to one of them. Um, we'll, when I get back from holidays now, he, he will, we'll both have a meeting. Um, and so we, before we go into our process, we whether that's one of our recommended designers or architects, or they've got their own we we make sure we have that meeting because I want to know that we can work together as a team yes and if they, if a client's picked a designer architect, that I go along to a meeting and I can tell from that meeting that there's already no collaboration or he's not really taking me seriously or vice versa it's never going to work.
Speaker 2:And then basically, once we move forward from that meeting, I'll then look the designer and I will liaise and we'll actually create our scopes of work based on what we both think. So we'll talk to each other.
Speaker 2:What do you think about this site? What do you think the job's going to do? What do you think about the project span? We'll have all these conversations so that then I can provide A detailed scope of works that says this is how many design meetings I've come to. There's so many site investigations. This is all the other consultants that I think we need for this job. The client knows exactly what they're getting, like scope of works, like we've talked about a lot. That's adding value. The client can see right from the beginning what you're going to do and same for you Like you would have a scope of works. I'd imagine that details how many means you're going to have what type of drawings you're going to do, how many changes you're allowed?
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Because we do fixed price.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that is super important. I hear stories from so many designers and architects that just keep continuing doing work. They'll work with the client for six months, do the drawings 50 times and not charge anything extra.
Speaker 1:I'm trying to figure that out. I've been caught on that to be fair. And then oh, but I've also seen other designers, architects, charge the client. Oh, it was projected a twenty thousand dollar bill for the design, whatever it was, and they got a bill of forty five thousand. What's that for all your changes? But you didn't let me know. But you made the changes. Bang, yeah, relationship ruined, yeah, happy, don't want to build the house, design, shit, all that, yeah, yeah, the world's about to end but again no communication, no communication and like.
Speaker 2:So that interests me because that's what I think builders get. So many builders get into the same scenario.
Speaker 1:I don't think builders are exclusive on this. I think it's the same as designers, architects, engineers you name. It doesn't matter our industry actually anywhere in business, if you're not clear what you're providing and what you're not providing.
Speaker 2:But doing extra work without letting clients know.
Speaker 1:Yeah, don't get me wrong, I've seen it a lot, and for what reason? So you've got to have your fee proposals very clear, yeah, but I also believe they don't have their scope right. You know, as you just say it's, but you can't run a business that way. You're just going to ruin yourself. Yeah and you're working crazy hours, you ruin your family life, ruin your relationships, like it's all good to work hard, but if you're doing it for nothing, what's the point?
Speaker 2:well, and you're just constantly stressed out and arguing with clients and butting heads and things like. It comes back to the car scenario, doesn't it like when you buy a new car, if you're going to buy a mazda 626 or a land cruise, whatever it is, you're going back a while for a 66 go the land cruiser, switch the new ones, yeah, like whatever you're going to buy, like you you pretty much know what you're going to get and what you're not going to get, and what you're not going to get.
Speaker 2:Oh, I'd really like to have those factory alloy wheels well, that will cost you another x, but you know how much it is, yeah so why don't people do their fee proposals the same way?
Speaker 1:100. So we stage ours, so we do the scope stage one it could be concept. We're just going to do sconce concepts. They're stage 1b planning documents. Take it through planning on their behalf, construction drawings. But then I've got all the disbursements of structural engineer. Do I need a civil engineer? We've got a geotech, I've got a detailed survey. I've got a thermal assessor. I might need a wastewater design and I need a landslip assessment, a coastal inundation, I need a um flora and fauna or cute furry animal report don't laugh crazy ass reports.
Speaker 1:We've got to get done, or uh, the stinky values one you know, it's the protected species I call the cute furry. We've got so many cute furry animals here in Tasmania. I'm going to bounce around in my backyard.
Speaker 2:But people need to know, don't they?
Speaker 1:Of course, but even then, we don't always know too, because the planning schemes are interesting. I mean, we've got a very good system in Tasmania where we can go into plan build. We see all the overlays and we know what. We've got a pretty good idea what we need to do and what reports, and we highlight that in. Look, you're going to need this, this and this. Yeah, also, we should be able to tell them by their project, because we might be doing a bunch of multi-residential units or something that's going to be contentious in these discretionary application. We know whether we need to get a specialized planner in for that as well. Generally, yeah, so for us, we do a lot of research beforehand and then what you're getting is very close. Even though that some of these prices might be estimates, they're going to be pretty close unless you change your scope. Yeah, change the and that's important.
Speaker 1:You have to let clients know, don't you exactly, you know, and then you get things priced, firmed up and it's all pretty good, and generally get it pretty close the by giving that level of detail, you should have confidence. Sometimes, though, we've been caught out and they're overwhelmed. So we've got nine pages of telling them what we're doing, what we're not doing. We're actually taking it through building approval for them as well. So here are all your permits, you're good to go, and we educate them what to do. After that, you know if they've got to build or haven't got to build.
Speaker 1:So it's being very clear what you're getting, but sometimes they get a level of overwhelm, even though I don't know if you're. On our website, we have sketched a permit process, how it all works. That gives confidence that we simplify it like it's on a four page. The reality it's like four, a four pages long, this flow chart, because of all the checks and balances we have to do with the regulatory authorities yeah, the ncc, plus working with our building support yeah, and a good, a good quality client will appreciate all that and you're always going to get the client that.
Speaker 1:But you know that client, though, is it's the person that's already done it before, and if you do it the first time, you don't get all this stuff. Once you've gone through it once, have done an extension, a reno or built a new home, and you've tried to do some of this stuff yourself, this is just bullshit. There's so much stuff involved that it's usually the clients that have done it for the second or third time. They really appreciate.
Speaker 2:Yeah, the whole package yeah, because everyone in the early days thinks they're going to be able to save some money or make a few phone calls themselves or organize something themselves. Like it's, it's not that easy. One thing I like to educate clients on is you stick to what you do. Yes, you have your job, your profession, your family life, whatever it is, I will take care of everything. You, you tell me what you want, yeah, or the designer, I what you want, we will take care of it all. And you just keep living your life, earning your money and doing what you do. And again, you get it's horse. For course, or some clients really appreciate that. Others think that they'll be able to save a few dollars by doing a few things yourselves, and nine times out of ten through the process and as they see things progressing, they realize how much is involved they end up just saying look, we accept, you do it all.
Speaker 1:Yeah, the funniest thing we find because we act as agent, which is mean we act on their behalf to go through the building surveillance and then apply for building and plumbing permits. I'll go do it myself. We don't charge a lot for it, I think it's like 500 bucks. They go away three weeks, three months later, come in. Can you do it for us?
Speaker 2:I can't figure this out yeah you know, and it's, it's, it's a lengthy process of ridiculous levels of paperwork but it's also building relationships, isn't it like when, like as as a designer, I'd imagine your team's doing it all the time. They, they know some people, they, they make a call. Hey, roger, how you going, mate, I've got another one, another approval for you to do. Yep, no worries. Like whereas the client ringing up doesn't know anyone gets the wrong department back to that department.
Speaker 1:Come, but even just going to your local building or you call building certifier, we call them surveyors. Um, just supplying the documents. Even though clear, here's all the documents. Even though it's clear, here's all the documents. I cannot believe how they mess that up. Just pass on the drop box. No, they're sending bits of paperwork and they miss one sheet out of the geotech report, or they don't have the planning permit or the planning exemption, whatever it may be, and the amount of paperwork that a building certifier or surveyor has to do is insane.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and that's the value. But, um, frank, we'll have to wrap it up because we've uh, I can definitely talk all day, but I just want to go back to you. Touched before on um insulation yeah when we're talking about building codes and things and this. This is another thing that I've definitely I've become more aware of it I'll put my hand up back in the day I like, even when I was contracting. Builder would just pay us early rate and we'd go around and shove it all in.
Speaker 2:When I started building for myself, if we couldn't get someone to do it, we started putting it in Yep. And now I've learnt all these things. You can't compact it in or you can't stretch it out. It's got to be neatly cut in the holes. There's no point. It actually really shits me now when I see builders that aren't putting time into learning about it, when you see it like it'll be between the um two studs or the nogs and it might be 300 lower than the top plate because that's where their ceiling stops and they haven't many like put it up in that little bit above, or they haven't put it between the roof rafters at the top, like there's all these holes in it everywhere. Like insulation is um. I heard I heard a stat on it once.
Speaker 2:I can't remember what it was, but it was basically along the lines that insulation is one of the most poorly done things in buildings because nine times out of ten it's getting done by people that have no understanding of the insulation, how it works in your life as a builder and I ask builder here have you ever seen an insulation installation course? A few months ago.
Speaker 1:Yeah, how long have you been putting insulation in Years 20 years? I've never seen a course. Yeah, I find it ridiculous.
Speaker 2:Up in Queensland. I don't know if it's Australia-wide now, but I just saw I think it prior to christmas a few months ago. Um, our one of our licensing body is doing a insulation installation course. Hallelujah. But, mate, it's. It's like four grand or something. I beg your pardon, like it was three or four grand. I was like what. But it is something I'm going to do, like I'm going to look in and do it so interested why they're charging that kind of money but and see what it is.
Speaker 1:I'd be fascinated to know because, look, it's really important this whole situation that we have. We have star ratings and it all stems from natas government body dictating how we're going to have all these different star ratings. Save the world, use less energy. I have no problem with that. I think it's wonderful. Yet the system is so flawed, from Nathurst to the engines, the software they use, to the actual assessors, to the. You know, there are all these assessors that are being quality controlled. I understand that because the BDAA has the ABSA brand and they audit these guys, like really audit them hard. And it's magnificent, these guys. If you find a good ABSA accredited certifier, these guys are top notch right Now. All well and good, it's top notch. The designer puts it on the drawings or the architect puts it on the drawings, but no one's checking it's been put in properly, yet it's important. We need a star rating, but no one's checking it. Yet from an engineering point, someone has to check the reinforcement, don't they?
Speaker 2:And the insulation is just as important because the house doesn't perform.
Speaker 1:But then you have a leaky home or it develops condensation. There's a whole ton of stuff that it has this knock-on effect, no different with the waterproofing we're saying like here we don't have inspections blows my mind so important. It'll ruin a house. Insulation, waterproofing on the outside, your claddings, your box gutters, your flashings, how it's all well and good to do wonderful design, but the thing leaks like a sieve. You're going to make it sick, the building's going to fail, but it might not happen now, might be 10 years down the track. You've ruined the frame.
Speaker 2:Yeah just goes on that you call them sick. I love that you call them sick. That's what we're creating. I think that these, I think our industry reacts a lot like a lot of the new changes. This is only my opinion, but with a lot of the new changes that come in, all they're doing is trying to fix problems that we've created. Like when they started making you put sarking on the jobs, like it all sounded like a great idea, but again sarking doesn't work correctly but there's no ventilated cavities and if, depending on what type of cladding you put on the outside and depending on how the insulation's on the inside, like there's all these other things that have to come into play and be installed correctly to make them work properly put it mean, if it's not installed properly, it's not worth it doing it, is it?
Speaker 2:yeah, no. So I think there's still a lot of room for improvement and I think agreed, mate, it's like people like yourself, um, that are, yeah, putting it out there and educating people and working, like people like yourself that are putting it out there and educating people and working, collaborating with other people that are passionate about things.
Speaker 1:Oh, yeah, love it.
Speaker 2:Thanks so much for coming on. It's been a really, really good chat. You've added a lot of value to the listeners. Mate, how can people find you? You do a podcast as well.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I do my own podcast. Primetime Building Design.
Speaker 2:Yeah, is that on Spotify?
Speaker 1:It's primetime building design. Yeah, is that on spotify? It's on spotify, yeah, me and amelia amelia's uh, our marketing.
Speaker 1:Social media coordinator. Yeah, and we have some wonderful chats. I get on my soapbox a bit, but I'm trying to educate mums and dads. Yeah, you know, from all sorts of things, if you're buying a home, you know I get guests in and and I want them to be aware of so many different parts of building, like from choosing a site to choosing a new home, to seeing the problems we've seen from poor building or building control, talking about things to be aware of at councils, or it could be soils, it doesn't matter what it is. We're talking about all different facets of our building.
Speaker 2:You're giving people a lot of value. I'm trying to, because you don't know what you don't know.
Speaker 1:We're talking about all different facets of our building. You're giving people a lot of value. We're trying to yeah Because you don't know what you don't know. We keep talking about this all the time. Building a house is complex. It has to breathe, it has to have ventilation.
Speaker 2:Come on, mate, it's not complex. They let owner builders do it.
Speaker 1:Well, I was an owner builder. I built my own house uh 22 years ago I shouldn't say that because there's different.
Speaker 2:There is different people. Some people take seriously other people think being an owner builder they're going to save some money.
Speaker 1:But but then why do they design complex? Why do they design and build complex homes?
Speaker 2:yeah every. It's like we refuse the podcast on owner builders owner builders.
Speaker 1:Oh mate, I could go to town on that what about socials?
Speaker 2:you're on social media?
Speaker 1:yeah, we're on Facebook, instagram, all the usual stuff. Prime Design yes. Prime Design yes alright, guys.
Speaker 2:Well, yeah, thanks very much for coming on, frank, it's been another cracking podcast go and check Frank out, prime Design, listen to his podcast and look as usual like, follow, subscribe, do all the stuff, because we can't continue to add you guys value if you aren't sharing and liking and getting on the road with us, so we'll see you on the next one.
Speaker 1:Are you ready to build smarter, live better and enjoy life?
Speaker 2:then head over to live like buildcom forward, slash, elevate to get started everything discussed during the level up podcast with me, duane pierce, is based solely on my own personal experiences and those experiences of my guests. The information, opinions and recommendations presented in this podcast are for general information only, and any reliance on the information provided in this podcast is done at your own risk. We recommend that you obtain your own professional advice in respect to the topics discussed during this podcast.