This is What It Takes to Be a Custom Home Builder in Australia | Level Up with Duayne Pearce

Check out Matt and his work:
🔹M Brown Building and Construction - https://mbrownbuilding.com/
🔹Instagram — https://www.instagram.com/brownbuildingandconstruction/

Check out Duayne’s other projects:
🔹 Live Life Build — https://livelifebuild.com
🔹 D Pearce Constructions — https://dpearceconstructions.com.au
🔹 QuoteEaze — https://quoteeaze.com/Free-Offer.html

Matt Brown from Brown Building sits down on Level Up to share his raw and honest journey — from growing up in a tiny 600-person country town in NSW, chasing NRL dreams with the Broncos, to building his own residential construction business in Southeast Queensland.

Matt opens up about the struggles most builders won't talk about: losing $250K on a job gone wrong, maxing out credit cards to pay his subbies, spending 7 years in court, working 80-90 hour weeks, and the heartbreaking loss of his son Fletcher. Through it all, he found a way to rebuild — selling his own home to pay debts, starting fresh, and eventually joining the Elevate community to level up his business and life.

This one hits different. If you're a builder or tradie going through tough times, this episode is for you.

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 1:28

G'day guys, welcome back to another episode of Level Up. We are back in the studio this afternoon for another cracking episode. Uh on today's episode, we've got a local boy uh with us. So um it's been a while since I've had a chat with the local Southeast Queensland builder, so I'm pretty excited to see where this goes. But um the builder we have with us today is also uh Elevate member, so he's a member of my Live Life Build um training and mentoring business. He's been with us for a little bit over eight months, so I'm really keen to dive in and see what he's got out of it. Um but uh yeah, big warm welcome to Matt from Brown Building. How are you, buddy? Good, thank you. Thanks for having us. The um so Matt, give us a little bit of a background of how you got into the industry, I guess, and uh where you've come from. Uh well I was kind of born into it.

SPEAKER_03 2:10

Uh my grandfather's a builder, dad's a builder, still going. Um, so yeah, kind of I've been on sites my whole life. So I really didn't have a choice, I suppose, in in one sense.

SPEAKER_00 2:22

Um and I was definitely not going to uni, so it's uh yeah, most tradies aren't fan uh fans of classrooms and computers and stuff. Um Where's where's your old boy building, mate?

SPEAKER_03 2:32

Uh still at Cooler. So in the middle between Dubbow and Kunabarbin, a little small country town with about six hundred people in there. Yeah. So that's what it was for the first eight in years of my life.

SPEAKER_00 2:43

Yeah, and so what what what made you come up here?

ountry Town Move For Footy

SPEAKER_03 2:46

Like what got you out of little town? Uh had an opportunity to come up here and play a bit of footy. So I got a bit of a dual contract with the Broncos and North Devils there at um at Bash Up. So and yeah, so there was a I suppose it was an opportunity to come up here and have a crack, I suppose. Um it's a pretty cutthroat there and I wasn't didn't have a name, but I thought, oh well, have a crack and we'll go there. So what what age were you when you moved up here? I was moved up here about four days before I was eighteen. So yeah, for that. That's a big big move, mate, at that age. It was pretty daunting. Yeah. But what do you do? You gotta throw yourself in the deeper and have a crack, so.

SPEAKER_00 3:27

So had you already started an apprenticeship or what what were you doing at that point?

SPEAKER_03 3:31

No, no, no, I only just finished year twelve. Um had the paperwork signed, ready to go with that, and then the opportunity came up um through a bloke called Sarah Connell, who was a scout for the Bronx. And uh one of the advisors of me moving away from home was I either get a trade or go to uni, um and I had to get a family and or live with a family, I suppose, um being 18 and young and what what do we all do at 18 and we're male and single, so we're ready to have a bit of fun. But mum and dad saw straight through that, so um yeah, I signed a contract with Norse Devils, and they uh yeah, they they put me in a bit a bit of a boarding house with um with two other young gents.

SPEAKER_00 4:11

That's a uh that's a big move for someone at 18 to uh move towns, no friends, no family, and and and starting basically a new career.

SPEAKER_03 4:20

Uh yeah, I suppose. Well everyone it's always someone's dream to um try to crack the NRL, isn't it? So anyway, that that was probably never going to eventuate, but you always had to have a crack and and find out a few things and well was that the goal? Was it you wanted to Oh it's yeah, I don't think there's there's something there are many people it wouldn't be a goal, I suppose, but politics and and you find out how how good you are or how I suppose you're not good. So uh yeah, that came to realisation pretty quick when you surround yourself and you're seeing yourselves through like three other squads, I suppose, and you go, oh yep, you start to size everyone up and you go, yep, he's got me, he's got me. But anyway, I've always had fitness on my side, so I suppose that kept me in the game for a little bit longer than others.

SPEAKER_00 5:03

Yeah. And so where did the apprenticeship end up coming in?

SPEAKER_03 5:07

Uh signed up with all trades, because obviously I didn't know anyone. Um so I had all trades, which I started with a builder three weeks before Chrissy. Um I think it was 2008 and he was just doing decks. Um and then he worked, worked for him for three weeks. Had Chrissy, I think a week or two weeks off, went down home. Um and then literally I couldn't get hold of him. So I rang all the trades and yeah, they found me uh another host. So that's kind of yeah, where we'll all started, I suppose. So what what do you reckon? He went bankrupt or what just uh what do you say? Running a shit show. Um yeah, he he it wasn't organised. Like I think from memory had two or three tradies and it was always a couple of apprentices, but it was maybe always just like us two apprentices and then one trade and we'll bounce from three different sites and but it was just wasn't well organised, I suppose. So I've I've got no idea because I haven't heard from him. Yeah. I c I can't remember his name. So Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 6:07

So what um well tell us a little bit about the all trade scenes because they they move you around a bit, don't don't they like Yeah, effectively, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 6:15

They so if they they your bosses, which they're your host, um if they're not happy they can just they'll ring all trades and pretty much you go back into the pool and they'll speak out to another person. Um I suppose I was lucky. I the next host I went, we have John when we went out to Ipswich where there was a and we just did frames. So I I had did that for about 12 months, um, which is good, gives you I suppose a bit of knowledge around the basics around around the house, but I just got bored, I just couldn't do the same thing day in, day out, week and so it's just yeah, I rang all trades and luckily go to another host.

SPEAKER_00 6:50

Was that um were you doing like volume building type frames?

SPEAKER_03 6:53

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 6:54

So everything prefab. Looking back now, do you think that added a lot of value value to your skill set? Uh when it came like being efficient, like because you've got to smash them out. If you don't smash them out, you're not making money.

SPEAKER_03 7:07

It it it was, but it was just in a way, but it was I remember a bloke's name was Shay, was the other third year apprentice. John was there, but he had like another another crew runner, so it was just literally me and Shay. And I was a first year. So in a way, yeah, well it taught you had a hustle, I suppose. Um But you w you weren't at a level where you sort of knew what was going on. Well, having a background, like I I knew how to shoot an argun and measurements and I had no worries about walking on subfloor or anything like that, being with dad throughout the years. But I suppose in one one way it the volume stuff is is good, but I just I'm a bit of a perfectionist, so I can't stand uh I should be right. Yeah. Next trades problem. So I just that's where I got frustrated with it and I used to have a bit of a temper back in the day and over up, so you know. Where's it going?

olume Framing And Tilt Panels

SPEAKER_00 7:57

Old age. Knowing better. Um so yeah, look, I I I definitely I'm not a fan of the volume building, but I do think it's like I see from even our apprentices we have these days, like we do depending on the job, like we might do six to ten jobs a year, and so if we got the boys split into three teams, like we were only talking about this the other day, like one of our apprentices in the last 12 months has only done two frames and like two fit outs. So, like over the course of your apprenticeship, you're not getting a huge amount of experience. Um whereas with volume building, like I I think I was quite lucky, like the last well, two probably year and a half of my time was volume building. So, like, and luckily my boss was very organized and s and well set up, but I'd you just got to learn so much because like we were literally doing two frames a week, like so um it was a good learning experience. But where where did you end up after the after that?

SPEAKER_03 8:54

Uh I ended up at a company, yeah, Pamcore Construction, so and they did uh tilt panels. So yeah, so we and we used to do everything from ground up. So he had his own machine, so he'd cut the land and yeah, surveyor come in, pin the corners, and away we go. So we'd do yeah, dig the footings, tile the steel, pull the concrete, place the panels, build the panels.

SPEAKER_00 9:16

Yeah, so I think that's an awesome way of constructing things. Like we about three years after I finished my time as a contractor, I got involved with a lot of that, and it was through the time that I grew and had a huge like 42, 44 odd carboners, and uh one of the builders that we started doing that with just saw that I was efficient and organized, so it's not something I wanted to get into. I sort of fell into it, but I ended up loving it. Like we ended up having a shipping container full of all the the props and the form work and everything, and yeah, pour the casting beds. Like for me, it taught me a lot about interpreting plans and things because there's a lot of detail in made. Like people I don't I think people oversee the detail in a tilt panel building.

SPEAKER_03 9:57

Yeah, especially with all the ferrels and the placement, because as you know, once you stand it, you've got 40 ton like sitting above your head with the crane, and if you get it wrong, the steel is having a crack at you because you being the chippies and the builders, you you're generally on side all day every day. Yeah, but yeah, it it was good, it was really good, yeah, and like making sure when you tine all the steel you get your off-cuts tire wire and throwing it outside the panel, otherwise it'll rust.

SPEAKER_01 10:19

And yeah.

SPEAKER_03 10:19

So yeah, no, it was I I loved it. I loved it and taught you a bit of speed with form work and makes you appreciate concrete or the grey gold, as they used to say.

SPEAKER_00 10:28

Well, it's uh it's I think it's grey diamonds now, the price of the bloody stuff. But um so you you would uh picked up a lot of experience through that. Like how long did you end up working with those guys?

SPEAKER_03 10:38

I was with them for about eight years. Yeah. Um yeah, no, it was and we used to do everything. So I suppose like we still did the occasional house runo, like mainly theirs or something, or their investment or whatever they had, or mates are mates. Um but yeah, we still did like all the framing. I suppose the internal windows and um all the like we used to throw around sheets of plaster, um, never set it, and then do all the grid ceilings.

SPEAKER_01 11:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 11:02

And then yeah, all the concrete works inside out, car parks, even down the landscaping, planning all the plants.

SPEAKER_00 11:08

So as as a builder, like all those skills are very generic, aren't they? Like it doesn't matter what, like whether you're volume building, renovations, tilt panels, like once you understand all the basics and you can read a and interpret a set of drawings, it's all the same.

SPEAKER_03 11:24

Yeah, yeah, and I it it is, and one thing I suppose I didn't appreciate back in the day was yeah, Grant and Paul having all the I suppose behind the scene work organization and I suppose the way that they even you stacked the panels so as the cranes lifting so you're not having to walk the panel from one side of the site to the other. So yeah, but now doing having your own thing, I yeah, it it definitely makes you appreciate what they did behind the scenes that I suppose you you always used to say, oh fucking assholes are never here. Anyway, they were there in the office doing something, but yeah, just didn't concern you, I suppose.

SPEAKER_00 11:57

I had a conversation with one of our carpenters only about three days ago, and um he was cracking the shits a little bit about um the supervisor and not being around and that and I was like, mate, you don't have to worry about supervisor, like for you to be able to do what you're doing on site here, do you know how much shit I have to do, Camille has to do, the supervisor has to do to make that happen? Yeah. Like there's a lot of phone calls, a lot of organizing, like there's um and look, I'll put my hand up. Like I was the same back in the day when I was on the on site, like the builder would my boss would hardly be there and I'd be like, what the hell is he doing? Like, he just is he going home watching telly all day? But it's um there's a lot going on. So what I guess did you always have an ambition to go out on your own?

SPEAKER_03 12:38

Yeah, I suppose I did. I suppose just monkey see monkey do with dad and pop and that so and I got to a point like the tilt panels, it was good and all the rest of it, but I was starting to get a big stagnant, like just the same thing over and over.

SPEAKER_01 12:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 12:49

Um and I bought a house, yeah, when I was 22, so I was sitting there and I was solidly doing that over weekends between footy and all the rest of it, and then yeah, we had a trip to America, um, Nicole and I, which I suppose my now wife, um, and I pretty much made the decision, I suppose, about three or four months before we went, I'd do my cert four, apply for my licence, and we went to America and I pretty much handed me um resignation in with Grant, um, yeah, two or three weeks before I left for America. We went over there for seven weeks proposing to Carl. And then while we were over there, I was remembered we I was sitting, I think it was a basketball game and I got an email saying, Yep, you've been approved for your low-rise builders' license. I went, happy days, how good's this? And uh, yeah, so did that and then come back uh and went back and worked for dad actually. So I was every ten days I'd uh I'd drive eight eight hundred K go work with dad for yeah, nine, ten days, get my head back in the game with residential, and then come back up, see Nicole mates, might have a little job here and there, like a little deck or something like that. So I think I did that for around about yeah, nine, nine or ten months or something, or maybe leave a bit longer.

SPEAKER_00 15:00

So yeah. So is that just sort of planting the seed and trying to build up a bit of work?

SPEAKER_03 15:06

That yeah, that there, like I I did rely a lot on um I suppose referrals. Yeah. Um but yeah, it w was that, but then mainly because there were we weren't doing a lot of residential stuff, I wanted to get my head back in the game and familiarise myself again.

SPEAKER_01 15:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 15:19

Um and I and and it's how often you get to work with your dad every day. So and and Pop was still around like he was retired, but i if we had to go to NN Pop's for smoker if we were working in town and he'd always done the Ute and come to work with us and we'd be picking up timber or telling you what to do, how lucky we were these days. So yeah, I suppose yeah, you don't really think about that until now, I suppose.

SPEAKER_00 15:39

Yeah. Is your old boy proud, mate, that you've fought you've become a builder?

SPEAKER_03 15:43

Uh yes, he is, but he when he said we're younger, he said anyone who picks up a hammer he said I hit you with it. So he did well there, 'cause the hell the eldest was the first one to do it. Um but yeah, no, he is now. It's it's quite cool that we can have a conversation over the phone every week, which we speak every week about work, really working kids.

SPEAKER_00 16:02

So what what work have you gotten into?

SPEAKER_03 16:04

Uh mainly renovations extensions. Yeah. Um I just like trying to marry the old in with the new. So it's uh yeah, no, it's good. I find if it's a bit challenging, I like it. A lot of people don't like the demo work and the renaws, but uh it's only two or three weeks of the shit stuff and you back to a good one.

SPEAKER_00 16:21

So what like what's been your challenges on uh like starting your own and running well how how long so how long's that been running your own business? Oh you'd be coming up you've coming up close to about yeah ten years. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 16:32

Um yeah, pretty much.

SPEAKER_00 16:34

And what's some of the struggles you've been through?

SPEAKER_03 16:37

How long we got here? Um I suppose the biggest one not knowing contracts, um not pricing properly, just taking people's word word for it. Um ended up in court. Yeah, and I was in court for about I think up to about seven years. Holy shit. With uh so COVID was a good help for that one. Um variations, getting them approved via an email, but not following through the form, getting them signed, oh yep, we'll be right, we'll get that sorted at the end. So yeah, I think yeah, they owed us about two hundred and fifty grand.

SPEAKER_00 17:11

So I had to um yeah, pretty much finish a house, finish my first house to sell to pay half me pay all the boys, which luckily So sell sell finish your personal home and sell to pay off somebody else's job that you'd done. Correct.

SPEAKER_02 17:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 17:24

Yeah. So yeah. I've been I know the feeling mate, I've done I've been there as well.

SPEAKER_03 17:29

So luckily I they say don't work with your mates, but all my subbies are mates. So that's how I got to know everyone through work. So I was pretty much honest and open with them. I said, look, I'm up shit creek here. Like we're probably all a little bit guilty of it, but I'm I'm the builder, so I've got to take responsibility. So they all agreed, yes, wait, I I'll pay I said I'll pay half your invoices with the profit I got from the from the house. I said, just you need to leave them a little bit of money because I need to buy another house and I think I'm gonna have to do this again. Because and then and then COVID hit. So yeah, um QBCC were not really that much of a help. Um QCAT pretty much just kicked the can down the road for years and years and years and just cost me a lot of money in legal fees.

SPEAKER_00 18:06

So g do you mind if we dive into that a bit? Like what what what was the issue?

SPEAKER_03 18:12

Uh I reckon they saw me coming, for one, um, the owner. She was a uh still is a project manager for a big company in Brisbane, didn't he? Um and literally I it was just the paperwork side, like just rushing in, like I can do everything on site, but it was just uh behind the ground, like behind the scenes, sorry.

SPEAKER_01 18:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 18:31

Like yeah. It's a variation of the paperwork, not quoting off a square meter rate, like instead of breaking it all down. No, just I should be right, we'll work that out. Signed a fixed price contract, um, but then it was agreed to do it a cost plus because they didn't even have um like a full scope. So they they said they were gonna do the painting themselves, they never did, had to get a painter in. Yeah, it just it just compiled, I suppose.

SPEAKER_00 18:58

And yeah, I was pretty stressed about it all, but it's it it's a really tricky one. Because I I've I've done the exact same thing, mate, so don't think you're on your own. And I think you have probably heard a million stories from other builders that have done the same thing as well. But there's a few things you've just said there that I like I definitely agree. I I do feel there is some clients out there that look for green builders that um know they can like they they understand the contracts better than the builder does, and they they yeah. I I don't know, that's my own opinion, because I I feel like a couple of people that I had issues with back in the day, like they like looking them back and reflecting on it now, like some of the things that happened and how it happened, like it's almost like they were setting me up.

SPEAKER_03 19:42

But um so I don't know your uh 100% that, but also like I was young and dumb, keen, just wanted to go to work and I suppose a piece of arrogance. Yeah, oh you should be right, I'll get it done.

SPEAKER_00 19:53

Yeah, but and being like I you sound very similar to myself, like you you you got into it because you want to be on site, you don't want to be sitting in an office.

SPEAKER_03 20:01

Yeah, correct, yeah. Yeah, so and I knew it was I knew it was going bad because m one of my best mates, he like he's a sparky by trade, but he's very good, like with business and he asked me because he knew I was stressed, and then all of a sudden he said, Right, come down for a feed and and his he had me in tears and I felt like the smallest person in the world. But he goes, Oh well, let's just work it out and and yeah, I'd I wouldn't be here without him. Like he was he was astronomical, like in in the way he helped me.

SPEAKER_00 20:27

So yeah, it was uh that's a very that's a really important message like for it 'cause I I guarantee you there'll be thousands of people around Australia now, thousands of builders and trades that have probably gone through exactly what you went through, but they're they're they're too either scared or don't want to be vulnerable enough to to have that conversation with someone.

SPEAKER_03 20:47

But yeah, just it's it's just I'd yeah, my biggest piece of advice to anyone who asks me, I say just reach out to people, go and talk to people. Like I'll like I'm happy to tell anyone anything. Like I said, I just don't want to see a young fella just getting ruined or I suppose I was lucky in the sense of um I had my opportunity to sell a house to to pay for the bills, but otherwise be bankrupt. Um and that ruins you for a lot of people.

SPEAKER_00 21:09

So what was the was it the paper trail that was the biggest problem there? Like because you hadn't followed through with variation paperwork and all that sort of stuff. 100%.

SPEAKER_03 21:17

Yeah. Yeah. It was pretty much all to do with variations. Yeah, so it's a bit over 200 grand of variations. Um and then taking people's word for it and they just wouldn't sign off on it, and then yeah, and that was pretty much it. So it was variations and they just withheld the last ten percent of the contract, which was I think it was like forty-five grand or something like that. Which yeah, back then was a hell of a lot of money. That's a lot of money. Um yeah, we had yeah, we had that many credit cards, maxed out, just paying the minimum repayments to pay suppliers and they didn't help. So yeah, there's some window suppliers I'll never use ever again because they they just they nearly crippled me in yeah, putting caveats on houses and when it was not my stuff up there, they were late to site for six weeks. Yeah. So anyway, live and low.

ponsor Condensation And Ventilation Battens

dmin Matters More Than Pride

SPEAKER_00 22:00

Um It's it's such a hard like it's it's it's such a un a misunderstood industry. Like the um like the people like I believe the construction industry runs the planet. Like if shit's not getting built, no one's making money. Like you um you ever think about how many like for for building to happen, like you have you have forestries and all the industry that goes along with that, you have all the transport industry that has to deliver materials and products and supplies to everyone to make products that we then go and build with, and then you think about all the the trades that are involved, like every trade has all the materials they use. Like it's it like construction funds the world, really. Oh, yeah, and thinking all the way down to camps and I guess war probably out weighs it a little bit, maybe. But um Trumpy's having a good crack at that at the moment. Alright, guys, I want to introduce you to a really exciting new product that I believe is going to play a massive role in Australia building healthier homes. As you all know, I am extremely passionate about healthy homes and I'm doing a lot of research and putting a lot of time and effort into making sure my construction business is leading the way when it comes to building healthy homes here in Australia. We've teamed up with the guys from Highwood Timber. Highwood Timber are pioneering condensation management with their high flow ventilated LVL batten system. High flow battons give builders a stronger, straighter, and smarter way to create a ventilated cavity behind cladding and underneath roofs without compromising on structural performance. While tackling condensation to improve building health and ease of insulation, highwood battons are built to perform. When it comes to dealing with condensation and ventilation, high flow battons will help you create continuous ventilated cavities behind all your cladding and underneath your roof sheeting. They reduce condensation risk and support healthier, longer lasting buildings. Highwood timber battons are also in alignment with the proposed NCC condensation management requirements as well as passive house ventilation requirements. Being an engineered LVL product, they are stronger, straighter, and more dimensionally stable than a solid material such as pine. This helps resist warping, twisting, and shrinkage, ensuring more consistent installs, less prone to split. Than solid timber. Highwood timber batten are precisely manufactured, meaning that your installation will be faster and easier than other products on the market. The part that I like the most about these batons are they are H3 treated for long-term protection against decay and turmoiles. They use a waterborne H3 treatment which reduces reactivity with membranes and adhesives when compared to LOSP. These are the exact battens that you want to be using on your homes and your builds if you are considering building healthier homes or passive homes. Check them out. Highwood Timber products. That's um like it's it's it's a tricky one because traders and builders get into the industry because we love the physical side of it, we love the building, like whether you're a sparky, a concrete, a plumber, whatever it is, like you you love doing that. Yeah. But it's the it's the admin side that actually makes you run a profitable, sustainable, safe business. And yet that's the part that we all struggle like we don't we don't enjoy. We didn't get into it to be able to do that.

SPEAKER_03 25:29

No, I still remember I went to the do that cert for in the business class. Like I think went for like two hours. Ticked and flicked, beauty. Yeah. And that was it. So we always say, I don't know, dive in, but yeah, I suppose that really burnt me in the at the start. Yeah. But it taught me a lot of l lessons, of valuable lessons, expensive, but I'll never get done like that ever again.

SPEAKER_00 25:48

Well, it's the only way I can describe to to look at it now, like you like you said before, and I'm the same, like we hate university, but like people go to university and they have four years of sometimes hundreds of thousands of dollars of debt. Yep. Whereas most tradies go out and get ourselves into shit, and our our heck our uni fees are the trouble that we get ourselves into. Exactly right. The money we lose. Yeah, who's idiots? But um so I guess where where what happened after that?

SPEAKER_03 26:19

So what pretty much got paid after going through yeah, courts and everything. Like thank God for the lawyers I had, they were fantastic. Um yeah, so after a three-day hearing, they pretty much awarded me ninety per cent of my money. Um but that only probably that covered I suppose ninety percent, but then it was the all the legals they had to pay like throughout. It was years of stress and like Yeah, it was yeah, that that seven years I was a fair bit of shit that went on, like married and kids and and that kind of stuff. So it was yeah, it wasn't an easy period, but I suppose it w when it doesn't break you make sure.

SPEAKER_00 26:55

Yeah. So it's a good way to look at it, but um what what else, mate? Like that's that's obviously a big one, but like how like knowing and so well I guess it all ties in together. Like, how have you been with like your quoting and estimating and knowing your numbers? I've got to thank you for that.

SPEAKER_03 27:09

Um I used to do the old Excel spreadsheet, I suppose. After that, it started to well, the lessons it taught me, um, yeah, breaking it all down and trying to quote properly. But then like I was always busy, but there was never any money in the account. And Nicole used to say, What the hell? And I always used to use the excuse, oh well, we're putting all the money into a house. So, but I it was just the old overheads. Just I always thought, oh yeah, one man band with a chippy who subbies, I've got no overheads here.

SPEAKER_00 27:38

Yeah. But um they add they add up a lot quicker than what most people think.

SPEAKER_03 27:42

Absolutely. Yeah. And uh and probably undervaluing myself. Just thinking of that I suppose old school mentality of uh the old hourly rate, oh yeah, 65, 70 bucks an hour, she's all good. Um got a good thing. It sounds like a lot of money. Sounds like a lot of money until it starts going in and out of your account quicker than what's coming in.

SPEAKER_01 27:59

Yeah.

oining Elevate To Fix Numbers

SPEAKER_03 27:59

Um yeah. And then I started to see a lot and and and hearing a lot. Um and that's how I heard through a mate of mine, uh Mick. He sa he told me years ago I should contact you when I was going through all this. Once again, probably too scared and proud to um to reach out. And yeah, and then he and I think that's what used to be called Quotes back, was it?

SPEAKER_00 28:24

Uh it was Quotes back when we started, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 28:26

Yeah, so that's how long ago.

SPEAKER_00 28:27

Um That is a long time ago, mate.

SPEAKER_03 28:29

Yeah. So that's when Mick told me about you and all the rest of it. Um I think we there's a few mutual friends there. And then yeah, then I started listening to the podcast. Um pretty m I I was on the way to Perth. Um yeah, and I just started listening to podcasts. I went, oh, started to hit home a little bit, like, oh yeah, I know this story.

SPEAKER_00 28:45

Um So that's what your your story that you're telling today. That's what someone else is gonna be listening to this story, doesn't it?

SPEAKER_03 28:50

Well hopefully, so they don't go one day or go close to it anyway. Um and then yeah, and I I remember I I brought up my phone, the Elevate program and the rest of it, and I'm going, how the hell am I gonna afford that every month? Um and then eventually I just went, I've got to get I've got to do it. Like something's gotta change. Like I'm busy, but there's no money and I'm doing something wrong.

SPEAKER_00 29:10

Um So what has changed? Like you it's well, I think it's nine months, isn't it? You've been with nine months. So what's changed in nine months?

SPEAKER_03 29:17

Understanding my overheads is the big one. Um that's massive. Like having it all broken down and sitting there and smacking you in the face. I'm pretty sure. A first conversation with yourself, I went, oh no, it's all good, and you and you you laughed. I don't think I laughed, but I remember probably laughing in your head.

SPEAKER_00 29:34

Um You were you were you did sound a lot more confident than what arrogance.

SPEAKER_03 29:39

Yeah. Yeah. Um but it just understanding that and just breaking it all down. Um having some systems and processes in there. That's and it just I suppose it's built confidence. Being able to say no. Like just yeah, like I just I I I I have the thing, I I just like I have that pack process and if people don't want to do it, I just don't do the job.

SPEAKER_01 30:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 30:02

And do you like you you value your time now, like you've got a you've put a higher dollar value on your time?

SPEAKER_03 30:08

Yeah, like I used to if someone rang me at seven or eight at night, pick up the phone, like after two rings. Now, if we get to five o'clock, I can beat it. Yeah. I'll I'll ring you back. I used to get the shits and I used to when I get up at four in the morning, I used to ring them then. And they and they used to get the picture pretty quick and they why are you ringing me? I said, Well, this is my time to work. So just because it's four and five in the arbor doesn't mean it's mine. So that was that win you any clients? Oh, they were already clients, so they were they're already too deep, and so was I.

SPEAKER_00 30:39

But I suppose in one sense I So you weren't doing the relationship any favour?

SPEAKER_03 30:44

No, it's uh it was just battling them, like headbutting the wall pretty much. And that's where it was and and learning communication, like keeping everyone updated and constant communication and just yeah, schedules.

SPEAKER_00 30:55

Yeah. So nine like so nine months ago you were questioning how you're going to afford to pay for the program. How's that look now? Like is the bank account building up, the jobs are profitable? Yep, all the above.

harging For Proposals And Boundaries

SPEAKER_03 31:08

Yep. And I every person who starts from themselves says, sign up. And they went, Oh, you can't afford it. I said, I'm I'm telling you, it pays for itself in the first month. Um like charging for your quotes, like people, it's proposals. Quotes, proposals. Um I've only had two people kick back the whole time. And one was saying, Oh, why aren't you tendering? And I went, Do you I said, What do you earn an hourly rate? And they what do you mean? I said, Well, you're asking for me to do for nothing. I said, So what do you earn an hourly rate and I'll tell you how many hours I'm gonna put in this proposal? I said, then if you're happy to cover my early rate, I'll cover yours. And they went, No, but this is what builders do. No, not anymore. So times are changing, man.

SPEAKER_00 31:48

So times are definitely changing. So how's like have you had conversations with your old boy since you've learned what you've been learning and what's he think of it? Loves it. Yeah. Loves it.

SPEAKER_03 31:58

I've I we get excited when we talk over the phone. So even down to the all the pro climber and cavity batten systems and all that kind of stuff, and because he's doing little three little town as for himself as an investment, and he goes, You'll come down and give us a hand and show us how to do it all. I said, Yeah, I I loved it. Did you tell him you're right? Dad pulled me out of the shit a lot. So yeah, in the middle of that court case, I had a house and I I was demoing my house and then I had two mates with me, and they'll tell the story different, but I tell him they pulled the wall down on top of me and I snapped and dislocated my ankle. And that was two weeks before my first son was born. Oh shit. And that's when COVID hit in 2020. So yeah, dad dad's got a little bit of a pull over me in that regard. But yeah, he like he doesn't really care.

SPEAKER_00 32:42

Yeah. How do you think um since joining Elevate and and getting your head around the business side of things, how do you think that's affected you personally? It's relaxed me.

SPEAKER_03 32:54

Yeah. Um not stressing. Like obviously like we s I knew it would have like a downturn, um just not doing the old way. So I knew there was gonna be a downturn, which was probably yeah, late last year, I suppose, but then a job fell in my lap and it just worked out to be great. Um But yeah, it's it's good. I just love it. Like I I get addicted to it, like on my social, it's just everything's building. I just it's just easy, I suppose.

SPEAKER_00 33:22

It's just how how awesome is it, but like when you because when you're in those like you've been through the situation where like tell me if I'm wrong, but like you you're worried to pick up your phone because that you you know that if there's a some a missed call or a message from a client, it's gonna be shit. You you're worried to turn your computer on because you you just you're worried about what email's gonna be there, whether it's chasing money or whinging about something, or like so your entire life is just stressed and worry, and it it's very hard to um get on top of anxiety and those types of things. And I know back in the day when I was in those situations, like my only safe space was on site with the boys, cranking the tunes and just getting done what I wanted, what I knew I was good at.

SPEAKER_02 34:06

Correct.

SPEAKER_00 34:07

Um and so I then it just made the situation worse because I would avoid my phone and I I'd I'd avoid my computer because I just knew it was all going to be bad shit. Yeah. Um so like it's awesome that you're you're at a point now where you're addicted to it and you you want to spend time on the computer and yeah, in the elevate platform and talking to other builders and yeah, it it's great.

SPEAKER_03 34:33

Like you just once upon a time, not a chance and hoping hell I'd ever do this. Um or reach out to other builders and ask them questions because I thought I was just worried about the judgment. So yeah, part of that elevate and like being a part of the like the A team, like there's messages and recordings every day of us asking different questions, all the rest of it. So it's yeah, it's great. It's the communities I I think is one of the best parts of it.

SPEAKER_00 34:56

Yeah. You um you mentioned before too your confidence has changed. Yeah. Like is that across the board or like confidence in your numbers or in your quoting? Like all the above. Yeah. All the above.

SPEAKER_03 35:07

Like I suppose having a better understanding of the scope, which for in retrospect I suppose is goes to your numbers, and if you've got your overheads and everything sorted in a part of your proposal, what's to go wrong? Like if you've if you've missed something, you've missed something, but at least it's not on your part of just not charging enough, I suppose, or or covering what has to be covered.

SPEAKER_00 35:28

I was actually um so you're um one of your ATM captains is Sam Carroll. Yep. So um Sam and I were having a bit of a chat earlier today, and he's like, so Sam's um he is coming up to I think it's his five year anniversary, or he's just had it, and um, which I I'm incredibly proud of. Like um blows my mind that we've had members that have hung around for five years, and he was um he was just saying to me this morning, like, he said to me, Have you gone back and listened to some of the the old stuff? And I was like, What do you mean? He goes, uh I made a commitment at Christmas time that I'm gonna go back right to the beginning and re-listen to all the early course content. And I was like, Oh mate, I I haven't listened to old stuff forever. Yep. He goes, Oh, you should. He goes, It is so good. He goes, I know you're constantly adding new stuff, but like seriously, some of the first stuff that happened in in the program is awesome. And that was really awesome for me to hear because I like when new members like yourself sign up, we we try and get them to go back and look at some of the older stuff. But um so it's all still relevant. Oh, absolutely. Um because everyone in our industry, like all builders are dealing with the same problems all the time. So it doesn't matter whether it's ten years ago or or today, you don't know what you don't know. So if you're if you're head down bum up on site and you're like reality is we're not taught. No, absolutely not.

SPEAKER_03 36:52

No taxes and nah, absolutely none of it. Bass.

SPEAKER_00 36:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 36:57

But yeah, you just don't.

SPEAKER_00 36:58

And I I even think back now, like I I there on the odd occasion, like it would come up during because when when uh both my so my first um boss when I started my apprenticeship was him and his brother, so there was like three of us. And my second boss, he used contractors, and it was only really me and him, so like at Smoker, there was like two or three of us. And occasionally I would like I didn't know what I was talking about, but occasionally I'd ask him a question about like estimating or like what how how does he know what the plumber needs to do? And like it was those stupid questions, really. But when I think about it now, he he could never like they could never give me the answers that I needed to be able to know how to run a business. Yep. Like they because they didn't know, like they weren't taught either. And I it I think it is a like I'm really um I'm definitely proud of myself for breaking the cycle, but I'm super proud of just blokes like yourself that reach out to Live Life Build as well. Like the more of us that get out of our comfort zone, educate ourselves, like every day's a school day. Yeah, it's it's everything to do with education, you know, 100% real. Well, that's it's gonna make the industry a far better place.

SPEAKER_03 38:12

Yeah, like you know, you dive deep deep, like all the passive house, which I don't know how far that's all gonna go, but like I understand the cavity batterons of the pro climber and it just makes sense. Yeah, until you get your hands on that pro climber product, I was a little bit iffy, but when I started doing it late last year, I went, okay, yep, this is so you can't go backwards. I can't, no. I I was skepticative still, like taped all the windows in, I upped it with a hose with no flashing, nothing, no cladding. I went, hmm, that didn't leak. Because it still does my head in how you have to return it back into the window void. It's as dad said, you said you ask them water to go in there though, you should be taping it in. Anyway, here we go here.

SPEAKER_00 38:46

Yeah. So do you do anything with your tell us a little bit about your team. What's your current team on site?

SPEAKER_03 38:52

Well, I just lost one fella, he moved down back down to Victoria where he's from, um, because I had two best mates working for me. So I've still got Joey, so it's just Joe and myself at the moment. So I'm at the point where do I go get an apprentice or do I get another chippy? But I I I don't know. I'm just I want to have all that all the work coming. Um I just don't want to bombard the site with too many people. Um it's just yeah, probably a little bit over the top, but I just know on the back end of this year it's gonna get yeah, probably silly.

SPEAKER_00 39:21

Yeah. So do you spend any time like is there any conversations on your sites to your other boys or like to be?

SPEAKER_03 39:27

We have a chat every morning. Yeah. Every morning, like what we do, we'll have have a coffee and we'll walk around the site and we'll talk about exactly what we're doing it.

SPEAKER_00 39:33

But like with the business side of stuff, like do you ever say, hey guys, I've I've run them back to the office, I've got to do some estimating. Like, do they know what happens behind the screen?

SPEAKER_03 39:39

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I tell me, yeah, I'm pretty much an open book to him. Yeah. Um yeah, like Bailey, he he just went back down south and he I used to get the shits because he used to pep me with a million questions. And I'll go, mate, I just I can't answer every question. I said, You're gonna have to learn some lessons by yourself. I suppose it's a little bit rude, but it's just when someone's at you all day and I'm trying to think of the job and everything go up. But I yeah, I'm pretty much an open book to the boys. If they ask me, I'll try to answer it the best I can. Um it just depends on what part of the job, mate, if I'm stressed or if I've got stuff going on at home or whatever's happening, but I suppose that's life.

SPEAKER_00 40:13

So, what about workflow? Like, how do you um how do you track your like where's the work come from? Still word of mouth.

SPEAKER_03 40:20

Um that's pretty much where it's all come from when referrals. Yeah. Through subbies, yeah, and then I've done a job for someone that'll work because I'm useless on socials, which I'll probably cop a spray from you about, but um but it's just yeah, word of mouth. Um like a little bit of advertisement on the truck and that kind of stuff, but it's yeah, literally still been word of mouth from day dot and still still going strong.

SPEAKER_00 40:43

Yeah. Word of mouth is great work, but you you need your socials to back it up. Yeah, I knew this was coming.

SPEAKER_03 40:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 40:49

But you look, you you've got to uh it all takes time, mate. Like I I don't um one thing I tell everybody, and I I I would be pretty confident I told you the same thing. I'm pretty brutal when people sign up. Like I I say, look, I I will help you, I will push you, I'll do whatever I can, but you need to show up, you need to be consistent. Yeah. So but you like I think one thing I see so many um sort of coaches and mentors and just people out there, and I I get it from um like I still get coaching and mentoring myself at different levels, but everyone's trying to push everybody to make big changes quickly. But like with a building business, like you you might have you've got work on now, and we work with you to understand your numbers and things, like you can't implement that until you get the next project.

SPEAKER_03 41:40

Correct.

SPEAKER_00 41:41

And so, and obviously builders got to keep cash flow coming in. So, like we're very big, like we've got our six P wheel, we get you guys to sort of work on what you need to work on, but a building business isn't a business that you can turn around in four weeks. Nah. Like you've got to you've got to have a strategy, you've got to have a bit of a path, and you've got to work on what you need to get the next job in the door to keep the cash flow coming so that you just every job you're getting better and better and better. Yeah, absolutely. And so it's like your socials, mate. The social stuff will come. Like if you're on top of your numbers now and you're you're making money, then yeah, the socials will hopefully be the next one. Yeah, hopefully.

SPEAKER_03 42:20

Hopefully, I'm useless at it, but um, I suppose that that is the next step, I suppose. So have to grow up a little bit and just do it.

SPEAKER_00 42:27

And then you mentioned just before um about like being vulnerable enough to have conversations with other builders. Like you're eight well and that's what that's how I started talking about Sam, but um so you're in the A team with Sam. Like I do believe that the community we've managed to build inside Elevate is like nothing else. Like, where else can you get a bunch of builders that are all an open book to help each other out?

SPEAKER_03 42:53

Yeah, nowhere. No, I remember having a my first conversation, I think it was down at Kingscliffe, the first event I went to, I was only in a month or two or something like that. And I met Sam and he goes, You just gotta dive deep. You just gotta be involved. I went, What do you mean? He goes, You just gotta you just gotta be involved. Just don't stand back. He said, otherwise you'll get nothing out of it. Anyway, that was probably me for a few months, and then yeah, that was that's when I dived into the pack process because that was why I was I was mainly worried about that because I was just I knew there was something not I wasn't doing right. Um yeah, and then anyway, comed up to educating the client.

SPEAKER_00 43:24

I find it it's good that Sam said that, because Sam took two years to get him right. Next time we talk to him, give him uh give him a bit of shit, because yeah, he he sat on the fence for two years and then well he um he rung me out of the blue one day because he's like it's just clicked. Like I've just listened to a Zoom call that you did on overheads and knowing your numbers, and it's just clicked. And then from then on he's just he shows up to everything. He's unreal.

SPEAKER_03 43:52

Like if there's any question in that in that group, like most of the time he's always driving, so it's just a voice memo. But yeah, it's just you can tell he just actually cares. Yeah. So and that's that's pr yeah, that's great.

ision Family And Building A Life

SPEAKER_00 44:02

So mate, what's your goal? Like you you obviously reached out to Live Life Bill because you've you've got a bigger vision, yeah, and you didn't want to just bust your ass for another 20 years doing the same thing over and over again. What's what's the end goal?

SPEAKER_03 44:14

Oh I I do want to do my own like kind of development stuff. I I like Nicole and I we love renovating houses and and doing that kind of stuff. So that's I want to go down that road, but obviously that you need the money and you need the cash flow and and everything to get there and the borrowing capacity. Um so that's the end goal, but I just I just want to like make the buildings better, I suppose, a little bit. Like it goes down that pro climber cavity, and I want to make Joey better, like the young Chippy. Because yeah, like he's just as much as addicted to it, because we're always sending each other reels on so forth. It was like at night and after work and that kind of stuff, and we're talking about it at Smokey. Yeah. So but yeah, that's probably I suppose the end game is to try as much as you the clients are good, you still get the occasional nightmare one, um, or dealing with the client's neighbours or something like that. Um that's I suppose tests my patience. Um but yeah, like if I can control the narrative, I suppose, and yeah, that's why I want Nicole, she'll eventually come into the business and start to take over some of the admin side, but hence why I need to get a lot of those systems and progress um processes in place.

SPEAKER_00 45:15

Yeah, well, get her involved in the uh wives and partners group, mate, sooner rather than later, because there's been a quite a lot of wives and partners of members that weren't really keen on being in the building business, but they've jumped into that group, they've built up their confidence, and we've had we've had quite a few recently that yeah decided to quit their jobs and step into the building business full time.

SPEAKER_03 45:39

So it's that that's definitely coming. That's definitely coming. So I've she was very sceptical, but she's she's not a very trusting person, um, where I'm just open arms, whatever, just roll the punches where she just it takes her a while to get to to get used to anything, I suppose. So yeah, the end of the yang.

SPEAKER_00 45:57

What was her what was her view when you said you were gonna sign up to elevate?

SPEAKER_03 46:01

She was supportive, but she's going, what for? And I've gone, She's going, you're busy. I've gone, yeah, I know, but why haven't we got any money? Like we're always worried about that freaking bass bill that comes in, or there's no money in the account, or and she goes, Yeah, that's because we're putting into the house. I said, There's got to be more. I was just I I don't know. And then I started with that like listening to Level up the podcast, and there was just the same story just ringing over my head. I'm going, no, there's something wrong here.

SPEAKER_00 46:26

So, but now she goes, You do whatever you want, you just because we do um we do get feedback from a lot of people that it's it's their wife that is the one that's stopping, like not stopping, but holding them back from signing up because as you said, it's a bit of a trust thing, like yeah, the um and and I get it, I get it. And uh so I could I'll say to all of them, look, if if you want to have a call with get your wife on, we can have a chat. Like, there's there's no pressure from me, but yeah, well I'm um I'm definitely not here to rip anyone off. Like this is to change an industry, like that's that's the number one cause. So it's probably more me, I suppose, in that sense.

SPEAKER_03 47:02

I was didn't want to be vulnerable.

SPEAKER_02 47:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 47:04

Like young think you know everything, but no, you you don't.

SPEAKER_00 47:08

Yeah. And so you you've got two young kids as well, so is like part of improving the business to make sure you get time to spend with those guys? Absolutely, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 47:16

So as I said, like I had Cold, our oldest, he was just just about to turn six, and then we had Fletcher, our second, and they were only 15 months apart, and then at six weeks old, he uh yeah, he uh passed away through his TIDs.

SPEAKER_00 47:34

Yeah, mate, it's terrible, sorry that.

SPEAKER_03 47:37

Yeah, it's uh unfortunately I can talk about it now fine, but it but it's just a a part of life. Um so that and that was right in the middle of all the court case and living in a half renovated house because we didn't have the money, I was putting all the money into lawyers and that kind of stuff. And then I it was I just had the mindset, I'll work my way out of it. So I think I went through a stage there four or five years, I was working 80 or 90 hour weeks. I'd still go out on a the occasional Saturday night with the boys, get home at two in the morning, but I'll be back on side at at six and I'll be renovating and because I just had to work my way out of it. I couldn't do anything. I borrowed money off mum and dad and my brother. Um and then yeah, and then after we lost Fletch, I rang the real estate agent, the house was three quarters done, had no robes in it, tiling wasn't done, out in the back of fresco. I said to him, I just can't look at this house anymore. And he goes, What do you want me to do? I said, sell it. And he goes, It's not finished. I said, I don't care, sell it. So that was on a Sunday. He came around, had a beer, looked at it, and he goes, Yep, Roder, no worries, you can you finish it? I said, Yeah, I'll make sure I finish it, just if you can sell it for the right number. He rang me on the Monday saying, Yep, um, I'll contact a buyers agent, someone might be keen. Tuesday walked them through, Wednesday was gone. I had 60 days to finish it. So we finished it. We made terrific money off it. Um, and that and that was the I suppose we closed that chapter, I suppose, like losing Fletch in there. We just there was a negative vibe in there the whole time, the cole and I we just looked at one another in the shower one night, I said we just we can't do this anymore. We've just got to get out. And me being a country lady, I wanted to get out, and we've always used to drive around Deborah Stanford. We said we've got to get out. As you may know, like back in COVID, there was no land available, there was nothing. So there was a yeah, a scrubby block near Deborah there, and that was only about one or three on the market at that stage. And we decided to go, yep, we we par we got it, we got the block of land, and then we went, oh well, what do we do now? So we moved back in with Nicole's mum and dad for the second time. Um she was pregnant with Tate, the youngest one, and I built the shed, fitted out for two bedrooms, bathroom, kitchen. We lived in there for six months, and I think I poured the slab first of August or something like that for the house. And the car was due Christmas time. So I knew I had to be and she said I want to be in the house before Christmas. And silly us, we went a stupid big house. So it was and I only had me and was it yeah, yeah, apprentice Harry when he was um when I had him and yeah, I worked. I worked and worked and worked. We got it done. Uh we had it all done and we moved in on the 10th of December. Holy shit. So it was um yeah, people say they get tired from work. Okay, no, no, no, you know you don't.

SPEAKER_00 50:29

So well it's a privilege, isn't it? Like ultimately, yeah. It's a privilege to be able to do what you love doing.

SPEAKER_03 50:33

Yeah, well, and like I always say, bless mum and dad, like they've got no money, they haven't come from money. He said, What I'll teach his work, I think. He said, and he can and hands down he's known he can work, and all us kids will work. Like, we're not afraid. I don't care sitting on a freaking demo saw for two weeks, I'll I'll do it because it has to be done. So, yeah, so anyway, we got into the house, and then yeah, come uh 3rd of January, yeah, young Taddy was born. So it was good.

SPEAKER_00 50:58

Awesome, mate. So, well, yeah, you've got a lot to live for now, like get your business running well so you can spend time with the kids.

SPEAKER_03 51:03

Yeah, absolutely, and it and just makes you appreciate, like after losing Fletchie, um makes you appreciate absolutely everything in life. So I never wanted to travel, and ever since that, and we're settled and we've got all the other caught and all the bullshit sorted, money's money's not a problem anymore, and that rest of it. And Nicole, she loves travelling, like she's lived overseas and she loves it. So we've made sure that we go overseas at least once a year. Yeah. So it doesn't matter with work, it it is what it is. I'll deal with it. If I have to work longer hours on a weekend or something to get it done to get to a job at a certain stage, so Joey and the if I need subbies and mates, come in and give us a hand, we do it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 51:38

So it's just that's look. I think a lot of people like obviously there's there's a lot to having your systems and processes and getting the business running well, but at any level, you've just got to do what it takes. Yeah. Like my um one of my supervisors away for three weeks at the moment, so I'm I'm doing his job, I'm driving his truck around on top of everything else that I do. And like the other night I was absolutely rooted, but I still had to finish doing stuff with the kids and then 8 30 down the shed, unload a truckload of gear that the boys had loaded up, reload it with shit for the next morning.

SPEAKER_02 52:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 52:09

Like you just do what it takes. But yeah, I'm I think we're pretty um we're tired with the same brush, mate. Like I I love it. Yeah, like people tell me all the time, oh you work too much, but I it it's fine. I I'd we we do it like I'm I'm I think you're the same. Like you're um you're racing off after this, you're going to see your son play footy training and then come and then we're gonna go out to dinner. So like you've just it's just about being scheduled and organised. It's like you you prioritise what you want to get done and you do what you need to do around that.

SPEAKER_03 52:37

Yeah, people think I'm nuts because I get up at uh just before three every morning and I go down in the shed and uh lift a few weights and that kind of stuff and say, Why? I'll go, it's one, I've got to physically keep up with the young fellas because I'll never ask them something to do do something that I can't do. So it's a bit of pride, but also mentally it's just it's unreal, just frees your mind and and no one annoys you at three o'clock in the morning.

SPEAKER_00 52:57

So it's um yeah I love it. It's unreal, mate. Like I'm I'm I'm really pleased to um yeah, for you to share your story. I'm really grateful that you've shared your story and um I guarantee you'll you're gonna get some people reaching out to you because I there will be people around Australia that are going through exactly what you've been through and sitting at they're probably in that moment at the moment where they're unsure who to ask or what what questions to ask or um I'll like we'll start to wrap it up shortly, but um I'm a big believer that once you once you're at a point where you're comfortable to be vulnerable that the floodgates open. Yeah. And then that's where all the improvement starts.

SPEAKER_03 53:37

Oh, absolutely, yeah. You've got to look at yourself before anything else. As I said, like that that client, I could have blamed her, but at the end of the day it was my fault.

SPEAKER_01 53:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 53:45

On the build, it was my responsibility. I should have known what I was doing, I didn't know what I was doing. O off-site. Um so yeah, it kind of the old saying, it is what it is, but you learn from your mistakes.

SPEAKER_00 53:56

Yeah. So mate, what what's um one bit of advice you can give for people that are out there that may be in that position?

SPEAKER_03 54:03

Reach out. Reach out, ask for help. Doesn't matter. It doesn't matter what you do or how you want to do it, just someone's already been in there's already there's always someone in a worse spot than you. Like, and I I've I've been at the lowest to lows, but at the same time, like there's go to your mates. Like if you can't talk to your mates, they're probably not your mates about it. So yeah, surround yourself with good people and just reach out because yeah, you don't know what you don't know, as you always say. So it's just yeah, just be open.

SPEAKER_00 54:31

Yeah. No, mate, I really appreciate your time. Last thing before we get out of here, what's level up mean to you?

SPEAKER_03 54:36

Uh just becoming better. That's pretty much it. Yeah, become better as a person in life and whatever else, and it just all ties itself together.

SPEAKER_00 54:44

Love it, mate. Well, appreciate your time. We're um we'll put all your links and stuff on here, but just quickly for everyone, where can they find you?

SPEAKER_03 54:51

I do have a website, um, and I suppose I am on Instagram as brand building in construction. So if you I generally get back to people on that.

SPEAKER_00 55:00

Awesome, mate. Well, um look, keep doing what you're doing, keep smashing it out. Um I'm really looking forward to seeing where you go from here and following your journey. So um, and really, really glad that we could uh all be a part of it with the team at Elevate, mate.

SPEAKER_03 55:12

Appreciate it, really do.

SPEAKER_00 55:13

Awesome guys. Well, appreciate your time for uh watching us this afternoon. Um, as always, go to the DuanePears.com website, get on board with your merch so you can help us continue to grow this level up movement. Um, like, share, subscribe, tell all your friends about this podcast so we can continue to make this Australia's number one construction podcast. Look forward to seeing you on the next one.