How A UK Carpenter Cleared $150K Debt In 9 Months & Built A Thriving Building Business In Norway

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What happens when a UK carpenter moves to Norway, starts from scratch with no contacts and builds a thriving business in one of the most unique building environments in the world?

This week I sat down online with Adam Jones from Tømrer Jones RS in Norway for one of the most fascinating conversations we've had on the podcast.

Adam reached out to me on Instagram a few months ago and I knew straight away he had a story worth sharing. From clearing $150K of debt in just nine months to taking on a 480 square meter heritage roof job that two of the biggest roofing companies in his town refused to touch — this bloke is the real deal.

We talked about building in Norway vs Australia, the lessons of working with a 62 year old master builder who wouldn't speak a word of English, why knowing your numbers changes everything and why saying no to the wrong clients is the fastest way to build a great business.

If you're a tradie or builder anywhere in the world who feels like they're just getting started, this one is for you.

Transcript

Safety Systems That Pay Off

SPEAKER_00 0:00

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Less Admin With Brett’s Online

SPEAKER_00 2:27

We've got a very special guest today that's reached out to me on Instagram and is coming to us from uh all the way from Norway. So uh we've got a UK carpenter that is currently uh working in Norway and um has started his own business, reached out to me on Instagram and we've had a couple of conversations, and I said, Hey, you should come on and have a chat. So um really, really pumped to be having this conversation, being able to bring uh our guest to you today. So uh a big warm welcome to Adam. How are you, buddy? Yeah, good mate.

SPEAKER_01 2:54

Yeah, um like I say, um I said to you were I was getting a bit of imposter syndrome when we were chatting offline and stuff, but uh it's hitting harder even harder now that I'm on uh on the podcast with a guy who's been in my ear for the last few months and so. So, but yeah, stoked to have a chat with you, mate. It's uh it's great to be here.

SPEAKER_00 3:11

I think it's absolutely fantastic that um you can be on another side of the planet, and uh I've heard like I've I've spoken to quite a few international um trades and builders and those types of things now, and we all deal with the same stuff.

SPEAKER_01 3:25

100%, 100%, and that was one of the biggest things, like uh you know, I listened to a lot of business podcasts and stuff like that, but um our industry is very unique. Um, and when I saw you on Facebook, there's a couple of videos that came up in my feed, and I was like, I kind of resonated with the stuff you were saying, and I was like, okay, yeah, and so then got onto the podcast and started listening to some of the guests and what they've been through, and it was kind of happened to me

Meet Adam From Norway

SPEAKER_01 3:50

in in real time, and I was it kind of put my mind at rest that hang on, I've just got to get through this inertia, you know, because I've only been going for about 18 months, two years on my own, and uh yeah, in social media nowadays and stuff like that, we only really see the highlights, but uh and then when I'm talking to other guys when the industry seems like they're doing a lot better than me, and I'm making these mistakes, and you start getting wondering what's going on. But uh the level up podcast has been great for me, uh, for my mindset and everything, because it makes me realise that no matter how good you are, you're gonna have these hardships, and you you you know, when and it like you said, we're all we're all going through the same thing, you know. We it's such a weird industry, you know. You go down the shop and you you buy a loaf of bread, you never you never say to the cashier, Oh, can I could I I'll give you 25 instead of 36 croners. You know what I mean? But in our industry, for some reason, people they they want to haggle, and yeah, so it brings its challenges, but um yeah, yeah, stoked to to to to start learning and about uh that we're all going through these things, you know.

SPEAKER_00 4:47

No, well I'm definitely um looking forward to some of the conversations we're gonna have this afternoon, but um probably one of the big differences is is the weather. Look, it's uh 30, 32, 33, and about 80-90% humidity where I am today. What's it like where you are? Yeah, we're about minus six with about four inches of snow.

SPEAKER_01 5:04

So a little bit different, yeah. But I'm I'm glad that my project at the moment is uh is working inside. Uh I was talking to Shay uh last last week, and uh I'm actually building a sauna at the moment, so uh yeah, I'm glad not to be out doing cladding in this this weather, I'll tell you that.

SPEAKER_00 5:21

Awesome, mate. But what's the um tell what's the product on the wall behind you there? It looks like we call it pine here in Australia, but it looks like a pine product.

SPEAKER_01 5:30

Yeah, mate, I'm uh I'm stoked that you noticed that because uh I but I bought this house in September and uh and then one of the first things we did was to uh do a bit of um renovating and I actually did that wall myself. It is it is a pine, it's a pine product, pine it we it internal in vendi panel. Sorry, there's some of the some of the terms I only know in Norwegian with the building building products and stuff, but it is a it's a pine. Uh we call it in Norwegian they directly translate it as a shadow panel, so like the joins have got like uh they're chamfered, and so it gives this kind of shadow effect. But uh yeah, we we like the kind of Scandinavian cabin feel, so we've uh we've we've kind of softened that this used to be a a brick wall or a concrete wall, and uh we we softened it up with the with the wood. So um I'm stoked that you noticed it, mate. I say I did that myself.

SPEAKER_00 6:15

Ah, looks good, looks good. Yeah, so mate, tell take us back a little bit. Um like well you've sent me a few questions you want to you want to ask, and um we can get into business and all those types of things, but just give us a little bit of background um about how you ended up in the industry, I guess.

SPEAKER_01 6:29

Yeah, so I was a bit late to the party, so it was I was about thirty I'm I'm coming up to 41 now, but uh I I decided I wanted to be a full-time carpenter when I was about 30. Um not the normal kind of route into it, I never really had a calling to be a builder and stuff like that, but I actually wanted to be a an actor or a stand-up comedian when I was younger, so I used to just do um you know odd jobs here and there, and I'd worked on building sites as a labourer for mates who had companies and stuff, and then um yeah, I worked as a project manager in the UK uh in the building industry and uh without any exper much experience, uh, but I always had a uh I was pretty good at managing things and good with people. And um then when I moved when we moved to Norway I decided that my Norwegian wasn't good enough to become a project manager and they have a totally different uh totally different way of building here because everything's made out of wood. Um in the UK obviously we do a lot of uh block and brick brickwork and stuff like that, and you need about 15-16 different trades to build one house, whereas in Norway you can do it in about four or five different trades, you know. So uh so yeah, I decided to to to to move to Norway trying to learn the language and

Starting Carpentry At Thirty

SPEAKER_01 7:40

um yeah I've I've I've I I really enjoyed it so there's a massive like kind of there's a massive pride in in in in in carpentry here in Norway. Um and what I actually did at the age of 30 I became uh what we call a voxen lehrling here, which is an adult apprenticeship. And I I was lucky enough to um after a couple I the first couple of years I was with some companies that were just big companies using me as an apprentice, like a labourer basically, not really learn anything. And then I managed to get um uh put with uh an old boy uh who was a master builder, uh he's six sixty two, sixty-three, and uh he's old school. And uh he he was he wouldn't speak a word of English to me. Uh so that was tough for the first three months he would say say certain things, and he he he comes, he has a really he's he's like comes from the uh uh like the the the farming area, I don't know, but he's got a weird basically the locals here didn't understand his Norwegian, so I had no chance. So the first three months it was basically like uh uh uh uh and but uh yeah he taught me Norwegian and he also taught me a lot of lot of standards like he was so he was he was anal mate. It was like don't you to the point where don't put your knee there, put your knee three inches to the to the left, and you'll get a better result. I'm like, yeah, but it was it I'm very thankful for the the standards he taught me and uh yeah then he was he was going he he was due to retire, so then I decided I decided I'd uh I'd have a crack at going out on my own. I knew I I built up a quite a good base of uh contacts in the industry, and uh one of the one of the one of the guys that I knew said, like, look, if you go out on your own, I've got six months worth of work for you. So I subbed into him for six months. Um and then uh I to be honest with you, I wasn't really so happy with the the way that they were doing things compared to the the master builder, they were kind of cutting corners and I wasn't really happy about this, and they were having a go at me for for what I considered doing things right. Uh it was taking a bit more time, but I wanted to do a nice job, and they they were they were I was getting I was getting hounded or or you know, you've got to be quicker, you've got to be quicker, and it didn't sit well with me. So then I decided um yeah, I'm just gonna I'm just gonna try and get my own contracts, you know, and uh yeah, and I haven't looked back really.

SPEAKER_00 9:53

It's uh yeah, it's been uh yeah. So um is it a standard like for like over here we do a four-year um apprenticeship for a carpenter? Is that what you do over there? It's it's five years here.

SPEAKER_01 10:06

Um but I because I'd had experience because I'd done I'd done a I'd done a couple of years as a labourer in the UK, and then I had like three years experience, three or four years experience as a project manager, so uh they reduced my uh apprenticeship to three years. Uh so I did I trained and uh yeah, it was it was tough, mate, because obviously going from like a management role and I was earning good coin in the UK as a project manager, then to being basically on the broom and uh and and starting again at the age of 30, 31, you know what I mean? It was uh it was it was it was it was a tough pill to swallow, but I I I just it was being here in Norway, it's beautiful, it's a beautiful place. And um, you know, I was working on islands, taking a speedboat to work, and uh you know, uh seeing the dolphins and and whales and stuff like that, and and then standing on the roof and looking at where I was, I was like, this is awesome. So I swallow that pride. It was it was tough for the first sort of like three or four years whilst I was an apprentice, just trying to get to to know the standards here and what you need to do, what's important, because obviously everything's made out of wood, but the the climate here is is uh so unique that you kind of a lot of things you have to tick the boxes for and stuff. So uh but yeah, it was um it's been a good journey because it the the there's no there's no job I've ever had. I've had a lot of different jobs, um, but like there's no job you get than coming back home at or standing at the end of the day and and and looking at what you've built and thinking that's gonna be on this earth longer than I am, and uh that there's there's no other job that get you get that instant satisfaction. Do you know what I mean? I mean you you obviously know what I mean.

SPEAKER_00 11:41

I love it. I I I love it, mate. The um I've actually got a fair few things I want to talk to you about as well, we'll flush out during the conversation. But um and yeah, happy for you to ask me any any questions at all you want to. Um I'm really keen. Like I love I I spent a heap of time on YouTube and um and even social media following guys from Norway and Sweden and that type, those types of areas. I just I love that it's all timber and I I love what you do with the timber, I love the size of your timber, like some of the beams and the posts and the the um the architecture that you have with your timber work over there is is unbelievable. Um so have you like through your time in the industry now, like have you learnt about you what you've obviously learnt about timber? Um, because your environment is so much different to ours here in Australia. Um that that timber behind you, for example, that pine on the wall, has that what has that got some sort of coating on it?

SPEAKER_01 12:35

Yeah, so I put like um uh like a a clear clear uh matte oil on it so it stops the cryst, so like the the knots. Sorry, I like I said, I I I know certain terms in Norwegian better than I do in English when I took that um but yeah, the yeah I call I think you call them the knots in in in English. Uh so we put that on to coat it so that it doesn't so those don't pop out. But uh no, it's pretty much natural. I wanted it as natural as possible, but um we yeah, we obviously use a lot of timber here. Uh mainly um it's uh furu in Norwegian, which is pine, or gran, which is like green, green trees, and then there is a bit of oak, but we we normally use oak for like finishes and fine fine bits of like architraves and skirts or or uh threshold strips and stuff like that. So but um yeah, it's it it's it's pretty cool because like as a carpenter and and it what's been quite good for me is that coming from like sort of a project management uh background, the the carpenters are there from day one to the end because and I I don't know what it's like in in uh in ours, but um uh a carpenter in Norway is expected to be able to do everything, so you've got to do you've got to be able to do you, you know, everything that included in the house. So even roofers like when I was working project manager in the UK, you'd have you know you'd have specialist roofers, you'd have your first fix joiners, your second fix joiners, you'd have your block workers, all this kind of thing. When you when you're a carpenter in Norway, it you you have to be able to do everything. Um so it that's what's really exciting about it, and you you know there's no better way than than learning by doing, and uh yeah, I've just been kind of soaking it up and and because I'm really interested in in how things do, and I'm a bit like a bit a bit a bit all or nothing. I'm I can be a bit OCD about certain things. If I don't know something, I'll go and research it and and and and practice and practice and practice, but uh yeah, it's uh it's it's it's like I say, there's it's almost like a superpower. I I feel so proud to tell people that I'm a carpenter in Norway because you get you almost get this kind of like respect. As soon as you say, like, yeah, I'm a I'm I'm a carpenter, and they're like, people are ooh, ooh, because all the Norwegians they're all pretty handy people, they can all do stuff. They they they they're they're like DIY masters and stuff like that. So when when they're bringing in a carpenter, they're normally bringing you in for something pretty special or something which is quite challenging, uh, you know, with like low-bearing walls and stuff like that, and or you know, the architecture, like you said, the architecture is quite quite interesting. Um, you know, and there's a lot of old buildings which need a lot of rehabilitation, so that's kind of where I'm trying to position my business at the moment is to be like a uh renovating old buildings because you know let's be honest, but putting up new builds and stuff like that nowadays, it's more like IKEA furniture, you know. You you you you get a set of plans and you find the right code for this one and you just bolt it together and make sure it's straight through, it's easy. But when you've got these old buildings, you don't know where your your stud work is. It you know, I I did an old roof not long ago in December, and uh it was for an old uh uh master builder, and but he he bought me in to do it, and we had this plan and he we we sat down at the pre-construction meeting, and then once we got into it, the the the the the the building was from it's a 200-year-old building. And the the the the kind of like the the taxpay, um what do you call it, the joists, the old joists which they had. There was one that was like 90 centimetres away from one, 110 centimetres away from each other, or or 65 centimetres, and it's like then we had to completely change how we're gonna do it. And those are the kind of challenges which uh you know it quite interesting with old buildings.

SPEAKER_00 16:08

Yeah, no, I've been doing a lot of um research on timber, uh just purely for my own benefit, really. But um over here, I think you would have seen because you follow my stuff. Like, um I'm really trying to lead the way when it comes to uh healthy homes, and like um, we're doing like the drained and cavity batten systems now, so we're putting our our batterons on the outside of the building

Why Norway Builds Different

SPEAKER_00 16:30

wrap. So my big thing with that is that any timber that we put inside that cavity system should be treated because that cavity is put there to deal with condensation and moisture and things, and um a lot of people are giving me a bit of a bit of flack here in Australia saying that it doesn't need to be treated and all those types of things, but I've since like my point's been proven in the last couple of weeks, which um that there's now uh the court battle and some things going on, and it's gonna really change um there's gonna be some results that come out of that that are gonna really stir up the industry here in Australia. But just through my own research and a lot of the the research I'm doing uh on timber, uh especially with older buildings, um, is all focused on Norway and Sweden because you guys have used pine for for centuries. And something that I've um discovered is like even though pine is a common timber that's used all around the world, the it's no different to everything else on the planet, like because of where it's grown and the environment that it's in, like your pine is incredibly different to our pine. So, like our our pine here in Australia, like it cannot handle moisture at all, like because it's grown in a very dry, uh humid um type climate. So any moisture at all, including a small amount of condensation, will really harm and make a difference to the the structural integrity of that pine. Whereas your pine over there, because it's grown in a harsh climate, generally a very cold climate, it's it's it's dealt with a lot of moisture during its lifetime, it actually deals with moisture a lot better. And I think um like your your a lot of your buildings, like the pine extends through, doesn't it? So you a lot of times outside buildings you will have exposed pine.

SPEAKER_01 18:25

Yeah, yeah, yeah, 100%. Um I did actually think about that where it's where it's grown, and that actually makes a lot of sense now what you've said because we use uh pine as the go-to for our cladding. Uh and it it you know, so what we'll do is normally the build-up of the wall, if anything behind the what we call the duke is but probably membrane. So anything behind the membrane will be sort of like uh untreated pine, and then anything outside of that membrane will then be impregnate, we call it. So uh is that the same in in English, impregnated? So we'll have the green, the green, the green stuff that'll be at uh outside the membrane, uh, which we'll use for our uh batten system for the for the cladding, but the cladding will be it can be treated treated pine, but normally the normal pine is is good enough. Uh might need a bit of um TLC sort of every five or six years with a bit of paint and stuff like that. But uh yeah, I've done a lot of cladding which is uh with with exposed pine and it looks beautiful like uh the different profiles you can get and here. Um yeah, it's it's not cheap though, but it's quite it's quite it's quite interesting because I find I found out as well that the it's weird because we buy most of our pine from Sweden, but the pine is actually grown in Norway, it's grown in Norway. So the the no the Swedes buy it from Norway, it gets processed in Sweden and then comes back to us, and everyone's just like everyone in the industry is just kind of like, why is this the is this the reason why the pine is you know the prices of materials are going up and up and up because it's uh it's bizarre.

SPEAKER_00 19:54

Well, even um something else that I've discovered from over just doing a lot of research over there or on timber, like your timbers over there uh in Norway and Sweden, like the they'll actually like in the in the like hundreds of years ago, like the old carpenters over there, they would actually plan their building around different seasons because depending on the season that the timbers gets harvest, like depending on the season that the timber gets harvested in, that actually changes the build-up of the timber as well and and will affect its durability and its grading and all those types of things. So it blows my mind like the old timers, like just how much knowledge they had about the products they they were using. Like these days we literally just ring up place and order and like who knows where it comes from it, like it just comes out on a truck and away you go. But um, yeah, I'd love to I'd I'd love to come over your your way sometime, mate, and spend some time um learning more. I'll come and visit you and we'll uh we'll do some carpentery together.

SPEAKER_01 20:54

Yeah, you're you're more than welcome. We've got we've got two spare bedrooms at the moment, so you you're you're more than welcome. But yeah, no, it's um it what's interesting as well is um I remember uh one job I was on with the with the old boy the the the the master builder and we were doing this uh we were putting some cladding on this uh cabin that we'd built and um you know it was vertical vertical cladding that we were using, pine as well. Now, what you have to be what he taught me was you have to be knowledgeable of where that building is placed and which direction the building is placed because we have a s a south uh southwesterly wind that comes through. Now, when I put the cladding on, uh and I've been with I'd been with him for about three months, I put this cladding on, I was so happy with this cladding. It was a it was a it was a Danish Danish product we'd got shipped over. Uh really expensive cladding, and I did this whole wall, and then he came to me, uh he came to me and he goes, What are you doing? I said, What do you mean? Is is it it's all straight and true, and my cuts around the windows were fantastic. And he was like, Look what you've done. Because I'd put the I'd I'd put the the the the the false we call it in a which um where where the join is, I'd put the join on the wrong way so that the wind and the rain could come potentially come into that uh the track in the back. So he made me take it all off and do it again. I couldn't believe it. Like it so that and and and things knowing where the wind comes when you're doing your whit your uh your roofs for example when you're putting on your your um your stone on the top of the on the top of the ridge um knowing where the wind direction comes from from a regular basis which way you lay that and so like the but these are kind of things which I was really grateful for the old boy teaching me because I even now I I I drive around and I see roos where they they've they've got it on the wrong way and you know wind can get in and and and try and take them off so knowing knowing where you're building in the climate which you're building in is is massively important you know and um yeah mate every every every day is a school day you come on here to learn from me mate and I've just learnt from you that that's actually something I've never even thought about like but it makes it makes complete sense like if you're getting wind driven moisture coming on the same direction depending on the uh the time of year and the season all those types of things it makes a hundred percent yeah yeah because he he he said to me me he said okay it's taking you an extra day to put that right but he said that cladding will last an extra 10 to 15 years yeah it's mad absolutely mad but like yeah so just no just but these the this these are the things you learn as you go on I I don't claim to be the the best carpenter in the world I don't think anyone ever will be but um I I'm willing to learn you know and we pick up to tips and tricks all the time and uh and and little things like this but uh yeah it's it it's it's a it's a great it's a great place to build but again um I don't want to be one of these guys that just talks about all the good stuff you know it's been it's been tough uh I like I I'd say it but like the more the more I delve into where I am uh as a business and and as a person I I I kind of at the moment I'm probably in that stage where I'm I'm self-employed I don't really it's not really a business business at the moment and that was one of the kind of the things which I kind of really wanted to to ask yourself was when when what stage do I need to be at to be able to try and scale that up because at the moment like I'm in this I I don't know if you can hear it in my voice and the way we talk but I I I love being on the tools I love creating stuff and the more the more I delve into running a good trading business and stuff like that you have to come away for the tools and do you know what I'm not really ready to do that yet.

SPEAKER_00 24:23

I'm just enjoying myself so much doing the actual work but I mean if you got any any any any tips on how I can kind of like scale or when would be a good time to bring on another person or hire more employees and stuff oh mate that that's a great question because I um look I I'm the same and it's it's one thing that really holds uh people back from growing their business in the building industry because we all get into it because we love being on the tools and

Timber, Moisture, And Wind Direction

SPEAKER_00 24:50

being outdoors and and um I guess mastering our trade that um like reality is you you're you're you're very limited to how big your business can get when you're staying on the on the tools so that's um one of the things that I've been really focused on with my training business and what we teach builders so we we've got we call it our successful builder solution and for me success is whatever makes you happy like we've all got different goals and different levels in life and look there's definitely people out there that want to have five ten fifteen twenty a hundred employees but there's also guys out there that are quite happy to to poke along with a with a crew of three or four and um do really good quality work and and it's funny like you've you've probably heard that story made about the fishermen like the the tourist comes to the village and um I'll probably muck it up but you the tourist comes to the village and the fisherman

Scaling Without Leaving The Tools

SPEAKER_00 25:46

he talks to the fisherman the fisherman says what are you what's going on he's like oh I'm just caught some fish I'm going home to feed my family and he's like I catch fish every day and the tourist is like well if you're really good at fishing you should grow and anyway long story short he runs through all these scenarios like if you're you should do this and you should do that and you should do that and basically goes this full circle that once he gets enough money he's back to doing what he's doing now which is catching fish in the morning spending time with his family so I think the um the most important thing is to figure out what your like what's your happy place like what's your goal and I talk to a lot of builders these days around figure out your ideal scenario and if it if it is being on the tools that doesn't mean you can't have a big business you just you will have to step back a little bit for a little while because you as a business owner is going to have to put some time into uh hiring some people um a lot of the time like one thing I've found through building all our systems and processes and helping um like three weeks ago we hit our one thousandth builder inside my training business so we've helped over a thousand builders now but um the thing is most building businesses and trades businesses can double or triple their profit and turnover just by putting someone in to do all the administration because what generally happens is most people get so like they they love being on the tools so they stay on the tools all the time and then they go home and they try and do all the office work of a night or on weekends and after hours which really affects their their personal life and their family life but if you can step back a little bit like sometimes in life you've got to go backwards to go forwards. So if you can employ someone to sit behind the scenes and take care of all the admin a lot of the time that's going to allow you to do more work on site. But you just you do have to take that little step back sooner or later to be able to build those systems put those systems in place. I'm sure you guys have them over there like we I talk a lot about uh VAs virtual assistants like the company we use uh I think pretty sure supplies them all over the world but like you could train a VA mate to do to help you out with your I don't know your estimating your bookkeeping like your your contracts administration even even just having a VA to deal with your um in inbox management like control of your emails and those types of things like that's going to give you more time back so you can spend more quality time on site with your um enjoy doing your trade and what you enjoy doing.

SPEAKER_01 28:22

Yeah 100% I mean it's it's it's quite interesting because um like you know obviously following the podcast and stuff like that the 2026 I kind of um set set a few goals and things but a friend of mine uh he runs like a a web uh web solutions kind of IT solutions company and he's at the moment he's just he just built me a website and uh he's actually building me a an AI assistant uh where it will be in Norwegian and it will they'll have a name so if I'm up on a roof I can just flick a switch so if any inquiries come through this AI can just answer the inquiry make some inqui um make some questions ask some questions and then that could be a sales lead which I won't miss because I'm I'm obviously up on a roof or something doing that. But um yeah I mean yeah I I I I think that'll be i interesting I I I remember the podcast you were talking about virtual assistance and things like that and i i I'm I it's been a it's been a it's been a tough year this last year because we've had it we've had a new baby I've already I've got two kids now we bought a house and I'm trying to get my business off up and running or you know and I I have been that kind of on that treadmill uh stage of business where I'm doing everything so coming home after a long day at work and then having to do the admin it's it it it it it it is it is tough um but I I I don't think I have aspirations to to to have like a crew of like 10 or 15 or something like that.

SPEAKER_00 29:43

I I'd love to be in a position where I've got maybe you know four guys you know a tea two teams of two me being in one of them um I'd love to take on an apprentice and pass on the skills which I learned from from my my guy but I just want to kind of have a a a life where I don't have to worry about money um maybe work on the tools three or four days a week and then have like uh you know a day where I'm in the office and then just have I I have no aspirations to to to be filthy rich but I just don't want to have to worry about money do you know what I mean but uh yeah it's actually it's it's easier than a lot of people think mate like every everyone like you see so much stuff these days and everything everyone's push towards bigger is better but um that's why we create our successful builder solution because it's it's what like success is success for you is going to be different to what success for me looks like and and and the next guy down the road so the most important thing is figuring out what success looks like to you and if that is having sort of an apprentice and four guys working for you the thing is that a lot of people think to make more money to be what more wealthy to be successful not have to worry about money you've got to get big but reality is you you actually have to get more efficient and just have like systems and processes and like when you've got good structure in your business and like these days I'm sure you you'd have access to them over there but there's so many softwares and apps and stuff that can take care of so much of the administration side of things. Alright guys I want to introduce you to a really exciting new product that I believe is going to play a massive role in Australia building healthier homes. As you all know I am extremely passionate about healthy homes and I'm doing a lot of research and putting a lot of time and effort into making sure my construction business is leading the way when it comes to building healthy homes here in Australia. We've teamed up with the guys from Highwood Timber. Highwood Timber are pioneering condensation management with their high flow ventilated LVL baton system. High flow battons give builders a stronger straighter and smarter way to create a ventilated cavity behind cladding and underneath roofs without compromising on structural performance. While tackling condensation to improve building health and ease of insulation highwood battons are built to perform. When it comes to dealing with condensation and ventilation high flow battons will help you create continuous ventilated cavities behind all your cladding and underneath your roof sheeting. They reduce condensation risk and support healthier longer lasting buildings highwood timber battons are also in alignment with the proposed NCC condensation management requirements as well as passive house ventilation requirements. Being an engineered LVL product they are stronger straighter and more dimensionally stable

High Flow Battons For Healthy Homes

SPEAKER_00 32:36

than a solid material such as pine this helps resist warping twisting and shrinkage ensuring more consistent installs less prone to splitting than solid timber. Howwood timber battons are precisely manufactured meaning that your installation will be faster and easier than other products on the market. The part that I like the most about these batons are they are H3 treated for long term protection against decay and turmoiles. They use a waterborne H3 treatment which reduces reactivity with membranes and adhesives when compared to LOSP. These are the exact batterns that you want to be using on your homes and your builds if you are considering building healthier homes or passive homes. Check them out Highwood timber products so it's it's really about being having more structure and being more efficient. And um like to me it really excites me because I like I I couldn't think of anything better now than just being on the tools every day and working with timber and um whether it's on the farm or building a building or whatever it is but I'm so um I'm so passionate now about just helping people and and building businesses that help people that that's what really drives me. But um I think for you as a carpenter there's absolutely no reason you can't have a successful business with an apprentice and a couple of guys and make really good money. It's just getting more efficient and and putting some structure behind it.

SPEAKER_01 34:01

Yeah and I think I think one of the biggest things I've learned in the last year has been to pick my clients uh properly I mean I I I think I've been guilty of um was when I did well because I I was I started as a sole proprietorship uh and I was basically subbing into other companies and taking on small jobs myself but then when I when I when I decided we were going to build or buy a house because it's been quite a good journey we we were we were in debt and then I worked like a dog to to get myself out of debt and then won it again on the property market and uh I did that just by renting myself out um as a subcontractor and uh working every hour God sent and managed to to I'm talking about cronas now so these sound like big numbers but like I was about 150 grand in debt and I needed about 400 grand to put down on the house and uh within I thought it was going to take me three years and I worked like a dog and it took me nine months so I cleared the debt and then got the got the the capital which I needed to to buy the house and then so then when when we got the house I decided that I wanted to take on bigger projects and things like that so then I I changed to like a limited company as you were so my company's called Tumra Jones RS the RS stands for a limited company here in Norway Tumra means carpenter in and probably made another mistake by putting my name in the company but I wanted that. I wanted that because I wanted to be accountable when you've got your name and it's your name I'm right driving around in a van which has got my name on

Pricing, Client Fit, And Saying No

SPEAKER_01 35:24

it I I I I have to have that pride and but the biggest thing for me is I was so scared when I went to Limited that I was not going to have enough work and and having a mortgage that I I was just saying yes to everything and I was underpricing things customers coming to me with a budget and I was trying to shoehorn oh okay I'll just I'll just I'll just reduce my hourly rate slightly and then I'll make it fit. Just so that I'm and I became a busy fool. I look back now like because now I've got an accounting system in place and I look back at those jobs and I'm like Jesus I lost like 30 grand on that job and it's like I'll never do that mistake again but for me it I'd rather be it we I'd rather be busy with for the right customer for two weeks a month as opposed to busy for four or six weeks with the wrong customer because it can it you know and that's that's why I want to kind of kind of position myself as more of a craftsman as opposed to a tradeie. I don't want to just be an inst I don't want to be an installer so I I've I've to the point now where I've even that the the the the work gear which I'm buying now is is makes me I I I want to be able to go from work and be able to go to a coffee shop and still be in my work gear. Do you know what I mean I don't want to look like an installer. The website which we put up is it it's a little bit more premium so that now the customers come because like like anything you go into a st you go into a shop and you're looking for a pair of shoes if you go into a shop and it looks premium you're probably like nah this is out of my budget range. So I'm trying to attract the clients now not just with more money but the clients which appreciate quality you know I mean and it's not just about I want this done as cheap as possible because like you talk about this race to the bottom it really annoys me. It really it's like do you want it do you want it done do you want it done fast cheap uh or good quality you can only have two of those you know you can't you know I mean and it it's so true and uh that's one thing which has been a big mindset chip shift for me this year is to is to be more selective with the clients um and it it and and listen to your gut um yeah I had it I I I I'm actually had actually had a really bad experience with a customer and my gut feeling when I've went to the quote in the quoting stage was like I'm not sure about this customer I'm not sure lo and behold did all the work to the spec to the quote and this customer's come back and they I haven't hit their expectations and it's like I've done everything that you said and now that that they refuse to pay the last invoice and it's just stuff like that and I'm like if I'd have just listened to my gut then I I wouldn't have been in this position you know uh again losing not not just losing money but it's it's it's the money's I can make more money it's not a problem but like it's the stress it the time the stress the the opportunity missed my my mind is on this negative thing as opposed to doing what I love. Yeah you spend the same amount of time doing a work for a bad client as you do for a good client so why not um flash out the good clients but um mate the what the the most successful people are the people that say no the most like I'm I'm starting to realise that now I'm starting to realise that now and like like I say being a busy fool was was me about six months ago and um yeah I mean another thing though Duane is like because obviously what I'm finding very difficult is because I I hate not having work but um it's very difficult because the stuff which I'm attacking is kind of like old buildings heritage stuff which we have to apply for uh applications to the the council here and stuff like that so sometimes you think okay they want the job done in February but then they don't come back that gets pushed back how do you go about like scheduling work because um I'm finding a lot a lot of gaps like at the moment I was supposed like for like for instance right now the position I'm in at the moment I had a job which was supposed to be starting next week but it's been pushed back now four or five weeks but I you know I how how how have you dealt with that like scheduling kind of thing um the only way I the best way I feel to deal with it is you've you've got to have more work than you can handle and I think the reason for that is there is so much that is out of our control and it sounds like you deal with the same problems over there as we do here.

SPEAKER_00 39:17

So in like in my business I can only control what myself and my team can do. So I can control what how we do the quoting how fast we do the the quoting and the pricing I can control the contracts and administration and once the job's underway generally it's the smoothest part of the process because we're in control of that. But from getting an inquiry to to starting the job there is so many things that are out of our control like we we don't know what's happening behind the scenes in the client's life whether it's personal financial family relationship we can't control the approvals generally you've got a lot of other consultants involved so like I can't control their business so I don't I can't control how long the plans are going to take I can't control how long the engineer's going to take I can't control how long the the council or the certifier or whoever it is is going to take to do their part of the job. So the only way or the most successful way that we've found to deal with that is you've got to have work stacked up. And

Pipeline Planning And Clear Communication

SPEAKER_00 40:20

so we've again by having over a thousand builders now sort of through our training we've sort of come up with a data that sort of shows that for every project that you have that you're currently working on you really need to have three to four in your pipeline. And that way there's always going to be one of those three or four that will fall into place and flow on. Yeah. So um yeah like that it and it like it works perfectly in our business. So if we want to have if we want to do four jobs a year uh we need to have nine to twelve in our pipeline um and it it works because we always see like we'll have a job that we'll think oh this is a month away like they've they've accepted they're happy with the scope they're happy with the pricing um and then all of a sudden they'll have a hiccup with their finance and so that hole that you thought you were going to fill it's no longer like it's gone. Like so by having um that three to four jobs for every one in the pipeline that means that we can go out to another job and go hey guys um we've just had a project that's not quite ready to go like you are you are so let's pull your job forward and let's fill that hole so and then like the other part of that to make it work successfully is obviously communication. Like we're massive on communication with all of our clients at at every single stage just constantly updating our clients on so basically every single time that I have a meeting with a client whether it's a design meeting or a costing review I'm constantly updating them of what our current workflow is so that they um they can leave that meeting and they can have in their mind roughly when they think they might be able to start and a lot of the times when I say to people oh look um we've had another job that's going to be delayed a little bit whether it's council finance whatever it is they'll say oh can we take that spot and I'll say oh yeah if you if all the ducks are in a row 100% you can jump in there. So then all of a sudden we've got a client that's chasing up their finance chasing up the design like trying to get things organised so we can fill that hole so communication is a is a massive part of having a consistent workflow as well.

SPEAKER_01 42:31

Yeah no because they've got obviously I I've got like quite a good network of people here in in Norway um so obviously like in this instance with the uh with this job being pushed on because it's it's a big job for me and then uh I I I'm I'm basically on Monday I'm starting I'm gonna um I'm gonna sub into it into a c into into a company which I've worked with before they they're they're quite a big outfit but they're very quality focused and stuff like that and they've they've they they've given me a very decent hourly hourly rate um so um yeah that that's the kind of the the way I was kind of seeing that I could structure it is kind of trying to aim for sort of like three or four big jobs a year um and then if if if they do get knocked on and stuff then I've got this guy to fall back on that I could just go in and and and get a decent hourly rate from do you reckon that's a good uh good tactic what the stage I'm in sort of thing.

SPEAKER_00 43:19

100% mate definitely when I was um I did that for a uh probably the like first three to five years of my business like I I never stopped doing I never stopped doing carpentry work. Like even once I started building I always kept my feelers out there for carpentry work and whenever we could fit it in we we did it. And that just kept the relationships there. So if I did have holes to fill I could always ring up and sub whether it was my whole team or even a couple of my team I could always find work for them. But the other thing that's really good for that, I'm not sure on the area you're in but um in Brisbane where I am here like we've got a I've got a really close network of builders we we'd um catch up for breakfast once a month. And having that group of guys that if any of us have got a bit of a quiet period or or a busy period, we reach out to the group and we we sort of swap guys around. So um I think in this industry collaboration is massive and and I think there's so many guys out there that are trying to just do it on their own. Yeah. Um I'm not sure about over there. Like do you over in Norway, like do tradies talk to each other and share advice?

SPEAKER_01 44:27

And yeah, it's it's it's it's it's really interesting that you said that because like um again, like because this job uh I I put the feelers out, and um I I really love what you're trying to do there with uh with your your ethos around there's enough work out there for everybody, you know, there's actually too much work for everybody to do. So instead of competing and stuff, like we we should, collaboration's the massive thing. Now there's a guy which uh I I worked with him uh last week, and uh we we we have kind of like similar contacts and stuff like that, and there's a uh you know, so we've decided now that when he when I'm on a lull period, I'll go and work with him. When he's on a lull period, he can come and work with me, and then we've got like two or three other guys which are kind of in the same position that we can then share. If we've got like a bigger job, we can we can all come and do that together. And uh that that seems like it that that's the best way forward. But I've even said to him, like, I recommended the podcast, and because all Norwegians um under the age of 50 can all speak fluent English really well. Uh and I was like, Yeah, you know, we want to listen to this podcast because it's uh it's it's great for you know how to set up a business, and because he's he's pretty new and he's probably like a year behind me in terms of um uh of where he is with with his sort of journey. And uh yeah, that that that's what I really want to do is get like so we're we're we're trying to like get a network of of free we call them freelancers here. I don't know if you do the same thing, but like yeah, people who've got sole proprietorships or small businesses or self-employed, and we we're we're trying to get a network of of guys together that we can then because if we if we know because at the moment like if I carry on like I am, I it would make more sense for me just to t just to just to quote for jobs which are just carpentry jobs, because I've found that when I do full renovations or uh that there's the other trades, then I could be if that that like for instance I I did this uh basement renovation which is very heavily dependent on the plumber and the electrician. The the plumber broke his hand, he was away for two weeks, so my schedule was out the window. So, what have I got to do for those two weeks? I'm like, I'm I'm I'm on an hourly price, so it's like okay, I'm just swiding my thumbs. So there was a lesson learned that do I do I do that? But for us to collaborate, then we have the option then of knowing that I can quote with confidence that I'm gonna have these guys and they'll be available, or if they don't, if they're not available, they'll know somebody is, so then I can then I can start doing the uh bigger bigger and better projects.

SPEAKER_00 46:48

Yeah, yeah, I think that whole process works really, really well. And um, especially if well the hardest part about it is just getting guys that are on the same page, but if you can build a group of guys that are all about the same quality and um work ethics and all those types of things, it it works really really well. Um the hardest thing I've found with doing that is the rate. Like there's been some discussion in our um in our builders' group about establishing some set rates, so like a rate for a supervisor, a rate for a carpenter, a rate for a different year level apprentices, so that everybody can still cover all their overheads and and still make money out of their team, but rather than um having different pay rates for everybody. But um but you you obviously put yourself out there because one of the things you sent me was you um you jumped into deep end and you took on a job that not even bigger contractors were, like in the in your town.

SPEAKER_01 47:42

Yeah, yeah. So like um yeah, after uh I after well when I when I was a s like sole proprietorship and I wasn't really happy with the company I was working for because like again they were just all about getting the job done as quick as possible. Um I put the feelers out and then I I did some work for a a property developer. Um well he was just starting out, so he just bought his first property, and it was a building which was in the centre of town, and uh um the traffic around this area is is huge. You you have to go past this house to get into the town. So, like you're talking about 150,000 cars going past there every day. Anyway, I it was weird because when I went to meet him um a couple of years before, I'd seen the the carcass of this building over. It's an old building, but they changed the roof. And I remember going past there, driving past there on a daily basis and saying to the missus, God, I'd love to work on a building like that. Look at that, it's huge, massive building, it's like 480 square metres of of house, yeah. Anyway, so uh went and went and met him at this place, and I was like, No way, this is amazing. Anyway, we would we

The Roof Job Nobody Wanted

SPEAKER_01 48:45

were turning this house into 15-bedroom, three apartments, uh so it was a big, big job. And he he initially just wanted me to help with the plaster boarding, so I came on board, uh, started doing the plaster boarding, and he he we we we stood up a really good relationship, and then he was like, Look, can you run the run the job for me? Uh, because like I had access to a few boys, freelancers, and stuff like that. I was like, Yeah, yeah, I'll take it on. So we we got the inter he did it the wrong way around. He we did the internals before we put the roof on because it was basically like a shell of a building, everything had been stripped off, but the the previous builders had gone bankrupt, so this building had been sitting there for for a couple of years and nothing doing. Anyway, so um he was like, Yeah, we need to get this roof done. And I was like, Okay, well, I contacted the two biggest uh roofing companies here in in our area, and uh they flat right said no, we're not gonna touch that because basically they had so much work that they didn't need that job, and because it was so visible, if anything went wrong, it would be detrimental to their business. So he was like, Look, do you want to have a crack at it? And I was like, Okay, so I spoke to my lawyer friend and I was like, Look, uh, I don't want anything coming back on me. I've got a structure engineer to come in and check everything uh just to make sure that I could actually feel as I could put this on. I got myself project insurance and all this kind of stuff. Anyway, this this roof, I'll send you some photos of it, mate, because it's it's it it I'm not being arrogant, but it's pretty impressive. There's it's it's basically like the the the the shape of it is kind of like it's a normal roof at the top, which is a 54-degree angle, and then it goes down to a 62-degree angle. So almost like a mansard roof. And what and and because the guy I was working with, and because everything was on me at the time as a sole proprietorship, I decided I didn't want anyone, I only wanted labourers who were gonna I I was gonna put every nail in, I was gonna put every screw in. I used um this called Sloyferbund in Norwegian, it's like this uh way when you put your buttons on the uh on the roof. I used this kind of like uh it's like a poly polyuthing like strip that goes underneath so that when you put a nail in uh it it it tightens it. So I I I was but bolts and braces, everything. Five and a half thousand uh tiles I laid myself and there was like cuts, valleys, not not not one part of the roof was square, and it was uh and it took me about it took me about eight or nine weeks to do this job solid, and I was working sort of ten to twelve hours a day, back breaking work, but the result of it now is amazing because everybody knows that building. So I go to a quote now and I say, Oh, do you know that building? Yeah, I did that, and I you know we did the full cladding, we did everything. It was um a six-month project, and uh I I probably had about 12 uh 12 chippies, and I was coordinating all and everything, and then that that kind of like made me realise I can do this because a big job is just a series of small jobs, you know what I mean? So I was like, I can do I can do this. Um, and uh it gave me some a lot of confidence. I have a lot of respect for the guy who gave me the opportunity to do it. We're still in contact now, but um yeah, it was it it was kind of like the the the jewel in my crown, and uh on the back of that I got another heritage job, and one of the things which I found was uh very beneficial for was that was that I was talking to the authorities because they're very proud here in Norway, the old buildings to keep the character of the building. So, for instance, on the back of this, I got another heritage uh uh roofing job which I did I finished in December, and the client wanted me to because the roof was had a bow in it, so it was because it was sick, it would it be it's sinking, but it was like 150-year-old building, and a client came to me and he was like, Yeah, I want that straightening up, that looks terrible. But I spoke with the authorities beforehand and I was like, Look, this is the plan, these are the materials we're gonna use, this is how the client wants it, and stuff like this. They came back to me and they said they were so stoked that I actually engaged with them beforehand because a lot of builders just go ahead and do it and don't and just say sorry at the end or have to put it right. They were like, No, you you they they said to me, You can't write that up. That is the part of the character of the building. So then that brought another challenge because then I had to make these tiles sit so that to so they appear straight, but still keep this kind of bow in the in in you know what I mean. So yeah, that that brought another sort of challenge with it, but they were just so stoked that that I had the nowus and and and a respect for the building to be able to actually just double check with them. Look, are you happy with the to the point of like where where they're flashing boards, they they didn't want them coming past the the gutters because that was how they did it back in the day, you know what I mean? So these little things which you know um these attention to details is what I kind of want to I I really enjoy um and and you know educating clients about that.

SPEAKER_00 53:09

Um but yeah, it's um yeah, that means that's that's adding so much value. Like that's um I bang on about that shit all the time, but that that's that's where you're getting out of the race to the bottom and you're creating your own your own path like when you're adding that type of value. So you're um you're well on your way, mate, to uh being successful, I've no doubt. But I I just want to get over there and have a look at some of this timber and these buildings that you're working on, mate.

SPEAKER_01 53:37

Yeah, yeah, you you've got to come everybody and I actually have a I actually have a brother that lives in in uh uh Manly West in Brisbane. Oh, we we got a job in Manley West at the moment. Oh, really? Yeah, my brother my brother lives there. He yeah, he he moved over there probably about six years ago now, he's had a couple of kids there and stuff, and uh so I'll probably be in Brizzy uh uh if if if I can you know raise some capital for the bloody flight over. But uh yeah, it's uh you you're more than welcome, mate, come over and have a look. It's because like I say, some of the buildings here were just absolutely fantastic. The one thing I love about the Norwegian like architecture is every it's it's it's it's a weird phenomenon because every single building is so unique, but it all blends in. It's the the the products they use are so natural. Like you can you can look over the fjord uh at like a settlement that's you know like a little town across the fjord and it it almost looks camouflage, but then you go there and every single building is different, you know? So you never get like the the same, like you know, you get some some you know uh terrace houses and stuff like that, but even those are uh are pretty unique, you know. So it's it the the architecture and stuff like here, and the the way that they have a respect for the for nature and and that and their environment is uh is something which uh I I really it's it's it's it's it's it's really it's quite romantic if you like.

SPEAKER_00 54:57

I don't know if that's the right word, but uh this yeah, it's it's it's pretty pretty amazing. I'd be using that in your marketing. The um you you mentioned um in one of the you sent one of the emails you sent me as well, you mentioned that you um you're paying a lot of attention to some new laws and energy ratings and those types of things.

SPEAKER_01 55:18

Well tell us a little bit about what they are over there, like um Yeah, so the uh the big thing which the uh the government are doing now is actually giving out um giving out grants to raise the energy value of the houses because the houses which were built post sort of 19 even as early as 1990s, they they they didn't use tape around the windows, uh they didn't use membrane or it on the outside of the building. So basically you you've got um Luffler crack um what do you call it? Wind wind coming in, there's it's no there's no insulation in the windows. So basically what they're doing is if you can upgrade your uh so we we call it uh eta isularing, so after insulation, so insulating the the house. So uh that's a lot of work with the shop. So I I went on a course to become uh one of these, you said uh an energy advisor for this, and a lot of people now it's great, it's great for the business because people can get up to a hundred thousand cronas in support uh for for this. So you go there basically and you you say to them right what's going to be the most uh cost-effective way to to be able to upgrade the building. So normally what people are doing is either upgrading the insulation in the roofs or or the or new windows which have got um more panes of glass. I'm I'm struggling not to say this in Norwegian. Uh

Energy Upgrades And Airtight Details

SPEAKER_01 56:40

and then and then basically ripping off the old cladding, putting in sort of 10 10 centimetres insulation, and then the membrane, and then the the proper taping and and and uh uh scum. What is it? Uh uh spray around the windows anyway. Yeah, basically getting the getting the building tight. Uh that that's a massive thing. So uh there's a big push on that in Norway to uh get these the building energy ratings up and become uh more more green as you as it were.

SPEAKER_00 57:11

Yeah, it seems like it's pretty similar around the world. Like most um westernized countries are all pushing for that more efficient, more airtight, um type building. So what what type of building wraps or WRBs? What are you using on the outside?

SPEAKER_01 57:25

So we in Norwegian we call it a diffusion or open. So diffissions open uh so it's it's basically like it'll it'll let the it'll let the moisture and the air out, but it won't let anything back in. So I don't know what you'd call that in in I do know in in Norwegian, sorry. And uh yeah, so they they they use a Motek or TVEC, uh e-Sola, these types of products. Um it's bloody expensive stuff. Like a roll a ro one one 25 meter roll of it's like 500 pounds, you know what I mean? It's um yeah, it's pretty expensive stuff, but um the the the the the main thing is to is to think about the airflow is is massively important here making sure that there's because because everything you can't have it too tight because their moisture builds and the difference the condens condensation points, knowing knowing where to put plastic on the internal wall uh on the internals uh when it's an external wall, so never putting plastic in your bathrooms, for example, because it's just uh it's you know you've got to let that moisture put come through the wall. And then um and then another thing you've got to you've got to think about is is because the a lot of a lot of people mistake is like they you know when you have like um the roof comes down and you've got like a uh we call it an oot stick, but the the yeah anyway the yeah so then they they normally pop the cladding flush up to that, but having a having an air gap there with an insect net across it uh so that the airflow can go up over the roof, that kind of thing. So all of these things are really important to to think about, and then also for your your water flow as well. So one of the things the old boy taught me was when when we're putting like the the mouse traps at the bottom, uh the baton that we have there, uh put it on a 20 25 or 15 to 25 degree angle, cut it rip that so that if any water did get back, it then just flows through the the mouse thing. So these little details like that he used to he was teaching me about like if there was water to get in here, how is it going to get out instead of just sitting there and then rotting over time sort of thing?

SPEAKER_00 59:25

But um, yeah, the airflow and sorry, you you guys would be learning so much over there. Like my my big thing is that the um I believe that the best tradesmen are tradesmen that do refurbishment work and they get because you get to see what's failed and what's worked. Um like over here we're working on homes that are uh look if we do an old Queenslander, but like we've definitely worked on homes that are sort of 120, 140 years old, but like you you get to work on buildings that are hundreds of years old. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 59:55

And it's amazing to see. I mean, I I worked on one of my one of my favourite projects is when I was with the old boy. We we worked on a a 200-year-old barn, we did a barn conversion, um, and we had to use the old methods, we were using chainsaws and axes, and uh and basically what they did is they built this structure out of trees, like literally stock, you know. It was it was and it and it the building was kind of like bowing out, and we had to use chains and uh chains to put it pull it back together, and then we we had to stock it all up, and then new fundament um uh fundament underneath uh like foundation foundations, yeah. Uh foundations underneath, and we built it from scratch and we um using all completely natural tree, and we we had to paint every single every time we cut it, we had to paint it with antiparasites because uh one of the big things we have here is problems with is with termites and things. So um I went on a termite. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So um there's uh yeah, so they call them Borabilla here. So they we actually went on a course about these. So you know, you do your classic knife test. If the knife doesn't go through, then you're good for a couple more hundred years. But uh well but you you see them because you you you you you first you you know you've got the holes in in it, but just because they've you've got termites in there doesn't necessarily mean that that that structure is weakened, you know. It's because we we we learnt about like these these termites, they they they take take like two years, two to three years to to hatch, and then they're only alive for two weeks, and they just eat themselves out, lay more eggs, and then come back out again. So we we've done a lot of a lot of work on that. Well, this uh yeah, these old buildings, um the way that they used to build back in the day was it's pretty impressive, you know. And then you can you can and then when you strip something back, you can see where the where the rock was, and then you think, Why, okay, well why why is that why is that failed quicker than this one? And then you look up and you see that there was a tile that was missing or something like that, and you're oh, it's obviously come from there, but yeah, you have that's what I love about the uh the old buildings, and and no walls ever straightened true. Uh so that brings with it so you know finding techniques to to straighten up a wall if you're gonna put like because everybody here wants plaster plaster boards nowadays, so and going into old buildings and renovating old buildings with plaster board, plaster board doesn't bend very well. Don't know if you know. Um so you have to straighten up these walls. So yeah, that that that's why it's difficult to price sometimes is because you look at a house and you're like, okay, I've done it, I've done, I've done work on a building built in this this built in this sort of year at this age, but then when you get in and you take it away, this is yeah, you've got to re rebuild that whole wall again. And and and trying to tell clients that you know sometimes they might have been burnt in the past from builds just putting in a price and then putting added on extras, added on extras. And sometimes I've I've scared I've scared clients away because I've said um that particular area there, I I would give it a 30% extra contingency just in case, and they they think I'm just trying to pull the wall over their eyes. But it's I've got to protect myself because working on all buildings, you just don't know what's behind that that wall, you don't know what installation you need to do a packed process, mate.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:00

So we we've got a process called it it's packed process, so paid as a consultant. So that you we've actually got people using it all over the world, do we um but um basically you like you adjust it to suit your business and the types of jobs and stuff you're doing, but you charge a fee to go in and do investigations so that you can find out all that extra stuff so you can give them a fixed price. And um it just the whole process just builds so much confidence and trust, and ultimately to have like that's all part of having a a successful project and a or we call them a dream project. Like to have a dream project, you've got to price the job correctly, we've got to build confidence with the client, the client's got to trust you, they've got to treat you as a professional, they've got to value your opinion. So um like for you to go into those jobs and um charge them a fee to be basically become a consultant, so you can do all your investigations, and that will allow you to give them a more detailed scope of works and price a job more accurately.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:57

Well, that's the thing, I mean, and and my mindset is shifted now because if you'd have asked me if you'd have told me that like sort of six months ago, I'd be like, no, that'll scare the customer away. But now I'm in that mindset of like, well, if that scares the customer away, they're probably not the customer I want. So like what what I what I what I've what I have done in the past is well, I've got a I've got a a big barn project coming up, and I said to the customer, look, I'll do all of this uh

Paid Investigations Before Fixed Prices

SPEAKER_01 1:04:20

coordination with the structure engineer and do some investigation and stuff like that, and I said it'll cost you this, but if if you decide to go with me for the actual works, I'll I'll I'll disc I'll discount that. Do you know what I mean? So that's what but I I really like the idea of um I mean you guys because you you guys uh you don't you don't quote do you kind of you get paid for that consultancy thing, don't you? Um that and and and again that's that's somewhere where I I really want to be because then it it all comes full circle with the way that I'm trying to project myself. It's like I want to become across as a craftsman who's knowledgeable about what he's talking about, and then but for because because so many times I've been in people's houses and I've probably talked my way out of the job because I've I've told them like I've given them them all the information, you know, I've given them all the information and like back in the day, like when I first started out, I'd be I'd expect I I remember this one job, and she wanted this pagola and this like out house kind of thing connected to the house, and I did a drawing by hand. I did a sketch scale drawing, I did a scale drawing of how it was gonna do, and I did from facade east, facade west, facade south, I did a uh a bird's eye view, everything. And I was supposed to meet up with her and and go through these plans of what I was planning on doing, and uh she didn't turn up, so that was the first red flag, she didn't turn up to the meeting. So stupidly, I sent it through to her on email thinking I'm gonna wow her. This is like one of my first clients I ever did a first job for. I'd always thought she's gonna be wowed. I spent six hours on these drawings, right? Sent it through in emails and said, Here's the drawings, um, and but I'd really like to sit down with you as we discussed and and and go through this with you and show you what I'm gonna do. She remembered back. Now I think I'll do it myself with my with my neighbour. So her neighbour was her neighbour was a a DRY handyman, but I'd basically given her all the drawings of how to do this project. And I know I I've you know I'm six or seven, maybe eight, eight, nine hours of my time on that for zero. It was like never making that mistake again.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:20

Well I mean that's that's how um a lot of people operate. Like so many people a lot of trades and builders, like you we're people pleasers, so you're trying to please the person, and yeah, nine times out of ten you end up doing yourself out of a job because you've given them all the answers they need for free. Yeah. Yeah. That's um interesting you say about the termites over there. Like we we um we tend not to have termites in our cold climate here because uh there's a couple of uh variances that survive, but yeah, I wouldn't have thought you'd have termites over there when you're getting like what's what's the coldest you get over there?

SPEAKER_01 1:06:56

I can uh where where we are it's it's not too cold. Um it gets it can get to sort of like minus fifteen, minus sixteen, but like if you go to the north of Norway, you're talking like minus twenty, thirty, stuff like that. But um it's it's I think it's it the the termites they they seem to thrive because the buildings because the way that they're built, they're it they they they they strive in a certain um uh moisture uh value. Uh so like i if the moisture is between a certain amount and the heat is between a certain amount, then so it's you normally find it sort of like um i it in in inside the building sort of thing, because they they they're very well well well built. So um but yeah, that's it it's not it's it's not it's not a it's not a huge problem anymore with uh with the the new buildings and stuff like that, but any building sort of like over 80 years old you you're probably gonna have a some some sort of termite uh problem.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:51

Yeah, right. And what's um like what sides are your I don't know if you could do you call them studs or your external walls? What what thickness what thickness is your timber?

SPEAKER_01 1:08:01

On a new build? Yeah uh so we we it depends depends who's building it, but normally normally uh two by six or two by eight.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:12

Because we we we normally have we normally have the the regulations here in Norway for new builds nowadays, outer walls need to have a minimum of 25 uh 20 uh 250 mil uh millimetres of insulation in the outer walls. So uh what you what you normally do is you'll have like a two by eight and then you'll have then five five five centimetres either externally or internally extra insulation. So what we normally do is we'll have like uh yeah, uh a two by eight with with uh 200 mil of insulation on the outer wall, and then we'll have plastic on the internals, and then we'll do another five centimetre batten with so that then your your electrician can chase in all of his cables and then five centimetres of insulation there, so then you get the 25 centimetres insulation or 250mm insulation in the outer walls, and then it's 30 30 millimetres insulation in in new build roofs as well. So when you do an energy upgrades, though, it's like with these old buildings, as long as you don't go below what's originally there and you try and increase it as much as you can, that's an energy upgrade.

unknown 1:09:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:15

So you try and get it, so you try and get it up to regs as the best you can, but obviously then you've got other factors, so you want to keep the character of the building. Because obviously, if you're if you're building a certain if you're building out uh on an old building and you're building it out 10 centimetres, you might not have that. You might then have to extend the roof so it doesn't become viable. Do you know what I mean? Because there isn't, you know, the the roof is set to where it is. But there's little tricks and stuff which I'm learning there with that because these walls are uh that they're they're built like back in the day, some of these walls could be like uh you know 25 25 centimetre thick walls. So what we we do now is I've I've learned uh recently uh that what you can do is you can put you can put your 10 centimetre or 15 centimetre insulation in that bit there, and then what you do is you wrap the membrane around the stud and then in, and then you create a so then basically you've got a then you create an air gap and then you've insulated as well, and you don't actually have to then build out the wall out, so then you keep the character of the building. So there's little things like these little challenges which you you you come across to to try and try and is yeah, and that's why I love about it, is there's so many different factors like you there's not one cap fits all when it comes to renovating all buildings.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:26

Yeah, no, mate. Um absolutely loving the chat with you. What um have you got any other questions for uh before we get out of here? Um I think um I think you kind of hit hit hit what yeah, no, just um one of your ones that you um one of the things that you reached out for me on Instagram was uh about leads and things, and I said, mate, you just gotta get comfortable being uncomfortable, get your get your pretend no one's watching you when you're doing your socials and yeah, that was it.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:54

Yeah, yeah, because I I'm kinda yeah, I that was the main that was the main reason why I reached out to you really was because the missus has been banging on about me um doing videos because she thinks I'd be alright, just doing some videos, but the I I don't know, you you whenever you whenever you want to put yourself out there, you always think about those negative times where someone didn't rate you or something like that, like when I was a bit green, like I know there's people out there that don't rate me as a carpenter at all, you know, but they they don't realise how far I've come in sort of like five, six years. But just their then their minds are always in the back, they they're living rent-free in my head, and I'm thinking, I don't want to put myself out there. Do you know what I mean? I I don't want to put myself out there because you know these two these twats who don't rate me. I mean, why should I be bothered? But that your advice was yeah, so I I don't know. I mean, um, yeah, because you you bang on about social media being a great great tool. Um, and the advice you gave me was just basically, you know, do these videos, but uh what what what yeah, I just don't know where to start with it, mate, to be honest with you.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:51

What do I it took me mate? It took me a lot of pushing um from my wife from a marketing um lady that we had at the time to do it, but I I think social media is the the best free tool you can have in your business. Like it's um like all of my businesses all thrive because I put myself out there and do videos and things. I I think video is so powerful, you you pick up so much about someone, but mate, you're

Imposter Syndrome And Posting Videos

SPEAKER_00 1:12:16

like you speak very well, you're very confident. Um, like even just today during the Zoom, you've absol absolutely killed it. So I wouldn't be holding back. I'd I'd I'd be putting yourself out there and I I think one thing that I really try and um convince people, it it's not not about the numbers, like it doesn't matter if you get ten views or ten thousand views because at the end of the day you really only want to be connecting with people that are connecting with you for the right reasons. So like all these people that just try to get tens of thousands or hundreds of thousands of views, if those views aren't adding value to your business, your your value, your your um, I don't know, your your ethics, your your quality, then what's the point of them? Yeah, so um made it.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:04

But I had a s I yeah, but I I had a similar feeling when I got the the signage done on my van for the first time. Because I I literally got my name on the side of the van, you know, and uh I don't know what it was, it was just support. I mean it was just I was just nervous about it, you know what I mean. I was like, I'm gonna be driving around now and people are gonna know who I am, and and I don't I don't know what it is. It's just like it like it must be this imposter syndrome kind of thing because you know I I I know my mistress keeps telling me she's like you know, she she's she's like my biggest fan, you know what I mean? And but I uh there's the reason why she's my biggest fan, but um, you know, that's why we've had two kids, but um so you you can't you can't you kind of discount that as just oh she's just being nice because she loves me, but everything. But uh yeah, I think it's just it it's it's I think it's just that next step, which is like I I I'm just I I think I just need to like you said, just bite the bullet. Um just and maybe maybe just start doing some videos and don't post them yet and just just just get a get a hang for it. But yeah, no, it's um because I want to start creating that because for me it be what we were talking about earlier about like the scheduling stuff, maybe maybe I need to start uh getting myself out there so I can I can get more working, so then I can then just cherry pick the the jobs I want or I have them in rev in in in reserve so when when we do have downtime stuff, but no, I appreciate the advice mate.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:19

Mate, just do it. I'm I can I'm sure by the what like I can tell by the way you've talked today, you're very confident you you I get I would assume you're doing a great job, mate. So uh I'm gonna keep an eye on you because I want to see some of the work you're doing. But the um I'll send you some focus, mate. Yeah. It's just a it's just about connection. Like you can you can build a relationship with someone, like you start putting yourself out there and and people will start watching, and before you even have any verbal or email contact with them, they've already made a decision whether they're gonna use you or not. Yeah, that's mad.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:50

That's that'd be a great position. I mean, like like I said, I we I talked about the imposter syndrome a quite a few times now, but like uh you you you massively inspired me, mate, and uh if I can get anywhere near as as uh to what you you've achieved, then I'll be I'll be very, very happy, man. But um yeah, it it it and the the the knowledge that you you give out in it's just very infectious and and I'm really really grateful and I mean that I know it sounds a bit a bit sucky up people I'm I'm I I the missus is the missus is is is is talking about possibly moving to Australia, so I I need some connections that maybe if I do move to Australia in the future you could sponsor me, but yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:15:28

Oh mate, look, I'm very grateful that you've uh said that. And look, I'm just I'm on a mission to make a difference. I I think um building is a is an incredibly rewarding career, and I just I love the fact that we get to build homes for people. Like, how awesome is it that we are building buildings that someone gets to have a relationship in, start a family and grow old in. Like, it's just it's an incredibly rewarding job. So uh why shouldn't we be good at it?

SPEAKER_01 1:15:54

Exactly. I mean at that nine, that's the thing, and like a lot of my mates who are not in the building industry say to me, like, oh you you're working too much, you're gonna burn yourself out. And I'm like, I'm you I think burnout only comes from when you do things that you don't believe in. Do you know what I mean? I understand. And I and I and I always I always reply to them and say there's a great thing about the um uh the human body's great that just before you're gonna die, you pass out, so it's okay. You pass out from exhaustion before you die. So that's that's alright. Uh that that's the thing you we've got to keep going. And I I love I love the passion that you have, and um, you know, it really resonates with me. And if I can try and do a small thing similar to what you're doing with the network of builders and stuff like that, then let's keep in touch and maybe in a year or so we can we can have a catch-up again and see see if uh any of this stuff which I've done actually uh I could be like your your little experiment on the other side of the world, you know.

SPEAKER_00 1:16:44

We'll um mate, we'll definitely catch up. We're uh we're actually doing a fair bit of homework at the moment about a trip over your way. So um yeah, if we do if we do make it over there, I'll definitely reach out. But mate, um before we wrap it up here, what what does level up mean to you?

SPEAKER_01 1:17:00

Level up focus, mindset, and uh and and and pride. Um that's that's what it means to me. Uh if you can if you can stay true to your values um uh and and and not waver those and and be willing to to learn, then uh I think only good things can come for that, and that that's one thing that I've learned a lot from from your podcast.

SPEAKER_00 1:17:23

Yeah, cheers, mate. Look, I take my hat off to you for reaching out. Like it's it's um I say it all the time on my podcast. Like, if anyone's got any questions, whatever, reach out. But um I'd I think it's fantastic that you're gonna be able to do that.

SPEAKER_01 1:17:32

Yeah, but the weird thing is you you say that and you think you you because because like I I I I consider you with very high regard. Like you I I I said to my missus when you when you replied to me, I was like, this is like a footballer getting a message back from Cristiano Ronaldo. I said, like, you know, this is it it's it's like that for me. And she was like, what you on about? Because I was I was half expecting like that that that Instagram message I sent you on the initially just to be just to be just to be forgotten about and then nothing happened, and then you came back and then you you you offered me to come on the pod, and I was honestly, it was like whoa, it was it was awesome. But uh yeah, I and and I I I'm saying that to anyone listening, please just reach out, you know. Um if anybody is um i in this

Level Up Meaning And Closing

SPEAKER_01 1:18:10

Scandinavia region or wants to come over and uh and work in Norway, then please you know hit me up. But uh yeah, it's it's amazing what you can do when you put yourself out there. And like I say, I put myself out there just sending a message one day and uh now I'm talking to to the guy who's been been in my ear for the last two months, so it's great.

SPEAKER_00 1:18:26

Uh mate, I love it, it's awesome. But um we'll wrap it up there, mate. I really appreciate your time. It's um you're probably gonna be running running late for work now, but um yeah, really appreciate you taking the time out to join us, and I'm I'm definitely looking forward to seeing your journey. I'll keep following you along and um hopefully start seeing some of your uh job site updates. But um for everybody that's listening, um look, make sure you keep uh like, subscribe, tell your friends about this podcast so we can continue to make this Australia's number one construction podcast. Um go to the DwaynePears.com website to get a hold of your level up merchandise so that you can uh help us continue to grow this level up movement. Um make sure you go and follow Adam, we'll we'll put all your links and stuff in it uh when we post this podcast. I really appreciate your time.