"I Was Crying On Site Every Day" — This Builder's Raw Mental Health Story Will Hit Home

He was crying in the bathroom on smoko breaks. Withdrawn from his kids. Ready to admit defeat on the business he'd built from nothing.

This week I sat down with Mark Boundy from Dalby, a builder who hit rock bottom 18 months ago and found the courage to put his hand up and ask for help.

We talk about the financial mistakes that nearly broke him, what it actually felt like in those darkest moments, why it took him four weeks to speak up even after finding support, and how he's slowly learning that being a good tradesman and being worthy of success are not separate things.

This isn't just a business podcast episode. This is a raw, honest conversation about mental health in the building industry and what it really takes to come back from rock bottom.

If you're a builder or tradie who feels like you're drowning and don't know where to turn, please know you're not alone, and there is always a way through.

Transcript

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Burnout Hits Hard

SPEAKER_02 0:00

Another apprentice once had three three apprentices and one tradier myself and things were getting out of control and I mid 2024 I was ready just to shut the doors. I just walked into my wife one day and said that's it.

SPEAKER_01 0:15

Because I like how long was it? It wasn't very long after you joined, you came to uh Kingscliffe event.

SPEAKER_02 0:20

Uh I joined, I think it was October 24 when I went to the Kingscliffe event. And I went to the Kingscliffe event and I I'm going, oh, I am just shit at build at business. And I actually went the other way. I'd never I didn't come home with any momentum at all. Dialing away. Doing my normal sort of day-to-day routine. And I'm just boiling my eyes out. I had no idea what was wrong with me. Nothing wrong. And then I'm sitting there eating my smoker. I've got half tears rolling down my eyes. I've got another lad over beside me and I'm trying to wipe him away. So he doesn't see him. And then he's got his head buried in a phone. So that was sort of my saving grace. And then I that sort of went on for a couple of days and I went home and said to my wife, I said, I'm no good. So I don't know what's going on. So she's like, Yeah, you do, you need to go and talk to someone. So it was good in that aspect that she let me hit what I call my rock bottom that weren't right. We'd burnt through, I'd probably burnt through about a hundred grand of working capital that I'd more to do with, it's actually more to do with me. It's not any, it's not anybody that I had working for me as far. It purely rests on my shoulders, and that's why I think I'm back instead of just turning around and looking and go, my journey has been really good. And that's probably my biggest take from the whole experience was from where I've come from as a kid to now. I am successful in my own right. I'd just be 1% better every

Safety And Supplier Shout Outs

SPEAKER_02 1:52

day.

SPEAKER_01 1:52

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unknown 4:24

Thank

Meet Boundy From Dalby

unknown 4:25

you.

SPEAKER_01 4:26

Boundy from uh all the way from Dolby. Got you out of the bush today, mate. Have you?

SPEAKER_02 4:30

Yeah, it's it. Yeah, I'm going good, Dwayne.

SPEAKER_01 4:33

Yeah. Mate, this is um we've talked a lot and I'm I'm super proud of you for coming out because you're you're out of your comfort zone being here this afternoon.

SPEAKER_02 4:40

Oh well and truly. Quietly shooting myself sitting here.

SPEAKER_01 4:45

Um so mate, before we jump into to building and and all that stuff, um, yeah, give us a little bit of background on your on yourself.

SPEAKER_02 4:53

Uh yeah, obviously uh Dolby boy, born and bred. Um my parents and and my wife's parents still live out there. Um I did move away there with it with a company I was working for in Dolby to Emerald for five, a bit over five years, five and a half years or something. We were up there in Emerald, and then yeah, we came home, and I was still working for them at the time. Um, and they sort of fell on hard times in in around 2015, and that's when I decided to to go and have a crack on my own. And yeah, we sort of plodded along for by myself for about four years, and then I put my first apprentice on, and and then it sort of got it got a bit of momentum from there, and then it exploded to four guys, and and then one guy left, and then I I just had the the two apprentices, and then I put another bloke on, and and then I put another apprentice on, so had three three apprentices and one tradier myself, and things were getting out of control, and I uh mid 2024 um I was ready just to shut the doors. I just cut walked into my wife one day and said, That's it, I've had a gut full. I can't I can't keep doing this because I'm just running ragged and blokes weren't doing what I was asking them to do. And she said, No, no, no, you're not you're not giving up on your dream. So but before that I was I was sort of searching for for business coaching and that sort of stuff. Couldn't really find anyone that was actually a builder. And then and then I stumbled a pro across your podcast. And then I I listened to literally every episode, right up until I think that was the August. And I thought, oh, and then obviously launch pad starts coming over the over the um socials, and then I sort of dived into that and then from there dived into elevate.

SPEAKER_01 6:49

And um sort of that's about 18 months ago now, so because everything everything it was out of your comfort zone, mate, because I like how how long was it? Like it wasn't very long after you joined, you come to our uh Kingscliffe event.

Kingscliff Doubt And The Crash

SPEAKER_02 7:03

Uh I joined, I think it was October 24 when I went to the Kingscliff event, and I I went to the Kingscliffe event and I'm uh I'm going, oh, I am just shit at build at business. And I and I actually went the other way. I'd ne I didn't come home with any momentum at all. And I was like, fuck, what have I done? Sorry for swearing. It's all good, mate. It's all good. It's just like, what am I doing? Like, you know, I've got no idea what I'm doing. I've I should just should just pack it all up and just be a chippy. Because I'm actually good at being a chippy, but I'm just really poor at being a builder. You were or was. I'm I'm getting there. I'm not not where I want to be yet, but I'm getting close. But I I crashed probably two, three weeks after that. I was in a bathroom, tiling away, doing my normal sort of day-to-day routine, and I'm just boiling my eyes out. I had no idea what was wrong with me. Nothing wrong. And then I'm sitting there eating my smoke, I've got half tears rolling down my eyes, I've got another lad over beside me, and I'm trying to wipe him away, so he doesn't see him, and then he's got his head buried in a phone, so that was sort of me saving grace. And then I'll that sort of went on for a couple of days, and I went home and said to my wife, I said, I'm no good. I said, I don't know what's going on. So she's like, Yeah, you do, you need to go and talk to someone. So it was good in that that aspect. She she let me hit what I call my rock bottom. Um I never got to the point where, you know, I wanted to do something silly, but it was um it was pretty low. And I yeah, to the stage where I just didn't want to go to work, I didn't want you know, I just didn't want to be anywhere. And then look obviously being in Elevate, I started getting more out of it. And then I think I think about four weeks after I sort of saw the doctor and got diagnosed with depression, I actually spoke for the first time inside the inside the group. It was huge, mate. I s I still remember it.

SPEAKER_01 9:05

You're giving me goosebumps talking about it now. Like I still remember you being on that Zoom call and um I think it was one of our uh might have been one of our 90-day check-ins or something and I was going to I was going around the screen asking people to just talk about what they'd been dealing with and yeah, you you came in and said that what was going on and I was like, holy shit.

SPEAKER_02 9:24

You know, look, I'd been I'd been kidding myself for the for the first few months that I joined Elevator, I thought everything was going hunky-dory. I was starting to I was doing my pack process and getting all that done and then obviously working on your overheads calculator and doing all those sorts of things. And I was still kidding myself because I was I wasn't uh I wasn't focused and and then like after admitting all that then I started to get a little bit of momentum after that and then the back end of last year got a bit of got a bit challenging with a with an employee I had, so I actually we actually mutually parted ways, which was which was good and he he could see why and I could and he understands my reasoning and now I understood his reasonings. So that was really good and we've sort of we had a really good run into Chrissy with a lot of momentum and then we've sort of hit a very rough patch at the start of the year. My apprentice sort of tripped upstairs and dislocated his shoulder. So that was the first day back after after Chrissy. So that wasn't that wasn't great. But oh look, he he had about a month off, and luckily I hadn't Nate, my son, so he he's a school-based apprentice with us, so I sort of I worked him pretty hard for a couple of weeks so we could get a get some work up to a stage where I could do a lot of it on my own. And then as Joey come back, it was yeah, it's it's sort of gaining a bit of momentum now, and then obviously we did the Ten Peaks and I got crooked and I was pretty much out for three weeks after that. Right up pretty much rolled up until the Melbourne event.

SPEAKER_00 11:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 11:01

And then the week after Melbourne was the first week I'd actually done a full week since the Ten Peak Challenge.

SPEAKER_01 11:06

So we've got a there's a lot I want to talk to you about, but do you mind like can we dive into your low point for a bit? Yeah. Just because I I know there's lots of listeners that listen to this podcast and probably listen to most podcasts and just sit there and they're they're possibly in a situation that you're in, yeah. And they just don't know where to turn or how to get out of it. Like what can we talk about like I guess where you were at in that moment and then 'cause it's a big thing for a bloke to to do something about it. Um so yeah, what do you what do you think drove you to be in that position?

Cashflow Mistakes And Cost Plus

SPEAKER_02 11:43

Uh there were there were financial decisions that I made that weren't that weren't right. We'd burnt through I'd probably burnt through about a hundred grand of of working capital that I'd that was my save your fund. And then I had to tip money in them in personally just to keep just to keep so I could pay everyone. Is that through like not just understanding projects and yeah and mismanaging and that and we were right we were doing two large projects at the time and I did I did do one under a cosplay and it just about that just about wrecked me. And I know I know you're not an advocate of cosplus, but um so yeah, I I I did learn a lesson there.

SPEAKER_01 12:23

So What what do you think the main reasons for that?

SPEAKER_02 12:25

Like cost cosplus are a hard contracts, like what like did you not have the right overheads or yeah, I probably didn't I probably didn't have a full grasp of my overheads and definitely and then obviously I didn't probably have the right not so much the right staff, they probably didn't have the right leader. And and I was probably pretty vacant and I was and I'm a I'm a press and I'll just I'll just just jump out, I'll just I'll fix it up, I'll do that, instead of going look, these are the processes we need to follow. So yeah, it was probably more to do with it's actually more to do with me. It's not any it's not anybody that I had working for me's fault. It purely rests on my shoulders and that's why I think I got into that situation.

SPEAKER_00 13:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 13:05

Because I've sort of yeah, I'm just I'm a bit of a doer, not a I'm not a big talker as such, but I'm yeah, I like I I guess I I'm a visual learner and I think everyone else is like that too. So yeah, so yeah, financial was the other was was the main aspect. Yeah, I was pretty withdrawn at home, even withdrawn from the kids, yeah, it was yeah, it was not not great.

SPEAKER_00 13:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 13:31

Yeah. And then like obviously you had the support of your wife and family and stuff, because it's a big it's a big move for anyone, but imagine being in a smaller country town, like it's a big thing to possibly be in a situation where you might have to shut your business down.

SPEAKER_02 13:45

Yeah, it would have been it would have been admitting defeat, and I'm not someone who who is willing to admit defeat. Um yeah, I remember my mates years ago, that always challenged me, like, oh you're not gonna get up that hill on a motorbike. I'll get I'll get about three quarters of the way up and then crash, but anyway, I'd had to go. So yeah, I was sort of one of them blokes. If you you tell me I can't do something, I'll I'll make sure I can or find a way I can do it. But um, yeah, without the support of my wife and my three kids, I yeah, I wouldn't I'll probably yeah, I definitely wouldn't be building today if it wasn't for them and also live life building. I'd yeah, it's just it's changed, it's just changed my ment there's been a mental shift there that I needed.

SPEAKER_01 14:30

Yeah, you've definitely come a long way since I um first met you in person and then we f since we spoke on the phone. But mate, definitely take my hat off to you for being open and and talking about it, because it is a big thing for folks especially or anyone really to go and just like there's a lot of there is a lot of and there is a lot of battle with mental health out in the bush.

SPEAKER_02 14:48

Like not that we're really bush bush, you know, we're you know just West of Tourmas, so you know, like we're not out in the likes of, you know, Klonkurry or you know, in the western regions, but that you know, I've I've worked in all those regions from Ann Eyes right through and and not that I've s I've I've seen it firsthand, but you know, there's a lot of young people out there, you know, taking their own lives and it's not hard. You just the hardest thing is talking up. And and it but it that but it'll it would be harder if if you had to to um sorry, getting a bit emotional. It would be harder if you had to bury a son or or a daughter because they just didn't want to talk to you. But you c you can. There's just so much out there now that we that we can talk and it that's that's the thing I'm grateful for. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 15:35

Yeah. I mean I I as I said it's bringing goosebumps. Like I I had tears in my eyes. Like to think that you felt safe enough in the Alabat community on that Zoom call like would you say it was four weeks after you'd be able to do that? Like that was um Yeah, that that was just huge. But like obviously that would have felt like there's a weight off your shoulders and and probably allowed you to open the gate and move

Talking Mental Health With The Crew

SPEAKER_01 15:59

forward.

SPEAKER_02 15:59

Yeah, it did. It still took it still it's still taking it's it's still I'm not taking it style, it's still taking time. I don't think I'll ever be a hundred percent right. There's been a couple of weeks in the last sort of few weeks where Melissa's like, oh, I think you might be slipping back, which she wouldn't have said that twelve, eighteen months ago. So I think I was a bit cranky there one day. I don't know what I was doing, she said, Oh, because I was gonna cancel my fishing trip. And then she's like, No, no, you need to go fishing, you need to go and clear your head. So that was all sweet. But so yeah, I've and there's been a few triggers that I'm noticing now that I wouldn't have noticed. So yeah, just calm the system down, walk away, go and grab a drink of water, whatever, and then come back. So you're a lot more aware of I'm a lot more aware now, mate. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 16:47

And how um like how's that affected you at work, like and your and your boys at work? Like you do you talk openly about this sort of stuff at work?

SPEAKER_02 16:54

Yeah, I did when I fur when after I'd spoke, I obviously spoke inside the group, it was probably another three to four weeks before I told the boys what was going on. Um and they were s they were quite supportive. Um and then for some, I don't know whether this is right or not. I I did feel like one bloke was taking advantage like I felt like he was taking advantage of that, which which I don't know whether he was or he wasn't, but that's just that was how I was feeling at the time, and that's sort of where where we led to our mutual departure. But um but yeah, like the other lad, Joey, yeah, he's he he's he's come on leaps and bounds since since that's that's changed, so it's only been him and I full time on the tools, and then obviously Nate, Nate comes on board at s during school.

SPEAKER_00 17:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 17:42

And then obviously working, well he's out working today on holiday, so he works full-time pretty much for every school holiday. So and then he'll start full-time pretty much in September once they finish term three, he doesn't really need to go back. You've only got to go back for the week where they hand you certificates and you you can see it in your face, mate.

SPEAKER_01 18:04

Like you're you're you're proud that he's gonna be coming and working for you. Oh, definitely, mate.

SPEAKER_02 18:09

Look, I'm but I'm proud of both boys because they actually I've I've really noticed like even before Christmas and then even when they when Nate turns up on a Friday or and even now the school holidays, like I I I helped them set out the wall yesterday on on Tuesday, sorry, and they set it up and they've been cloud they've been clouding the whole thing, so and I haven't I've had minimal input into it and they've done really well. So they're out there clouding on their own now, so we'll see what happens in the morning when I get back. But I'm I'm assuming it'll be pretty good.

SPEAKER_01 18:42

So Matt, talk us through some of the changes, like what's what's happened in the last 18 months, like compared to where you were and where you are.

Worth, Success, And Perfectionism

SPEAKER_02 18:51

Yeah, just basically just taking a long hard look in the mirror and and just not not not liking what I'm seeing. So having to change having to change an attitude because yeah, I do I've got small man syndrome, I think, at times. I've got I've got a pretty short fuse, so I need to needed to calm that down. Um Yeah, just talking I obviously I work with a with a lady there um to to go over a few things. Um sometimes I you know you don't sometimes you don't feel worthy of of doing work for some people, you know, like and that's sort of your that order. You know, like I don't know, I yeah, it's hard to want to explain actually, like I do I like just do I worth diving into it. Am I a kid that's really you know like I I still I don't know I'm really there'd be a lot of people in our industry that are feeling that mate. It's really it's it's one I probably haven't worked out yet, and that's probably one I'm still working on. Like yeah, like I yeah, I probably I haven't realised my true value is probably the best way of putting that. I probably um I'm s I'm working on that.

SPEAKER_01 20:04

Um like I've seen I've seen you work and like um I can't remember what I mean, Melbourne last year. I can't remember if it was Melbourne or Adelaide, but we were sitting beside each other for dinner and um yeah it was dinner. It was uh when bloody Luke Delkey took us to the pub. Yeah. Um good steak. That was a ripper steak too. And it ended up a big night. But the um like we got into a pretty deep conversation about the work you're doing. You were showing me a lot of photos and stuff, and it was to be honest, it wasn't the type of work that I had envisaged being out at Dolby, but um you were saying like there's a lot of big farms out there and the farmers like spending money on their homes and stuff, but is so is that what you're talking about? Like you don't you don't think they value your worth.

SPEAKER_02 20:53

No, I think yeah, they I think they do, but yeah, I just I don't perceive I probably don't have a good personal view of myself at times.

SPEAKER_01 21:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 21:00

Um yeah, I know I can do the work, that's the easy bit, but yeah.

SPEAKER_01 21:03

So what what do you think it is? It makes you think you're not worth you're not worthy to do that work.

SPEAKER_02 21:08

I don't know. I I re like yeah, I like I say I haven't I haven't worked that bit out yet.

SPEAKER_01 21:13

I'm still work I've still got a lot to work through. Yeah. Um definitely are.

SPEAKER_02 21:18

There's no doubt about it. I know it's good, yeah, it's definitely good enough. Yeah, yeah. You could put it in a magazine. That that one particular job you put in a magazine, it'd win multiple awards, but yeah, that's not that's not why I get out of bed is to win awards or anything like that. It's just yeah, I'd but they but they often tell like they they sit down and tell me, like, oh, you know, we we spent most Sundays out here sitting here, and it's just wonderful. You know, I've got a f a few clients like that, you know, one client we did a a big pool area and So do you think it could have something to do with what what you see as success?

SPEAKER_01 21:54

Yeah, it could do to one, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 21:55

I'm just not a hundred percent sure. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Like I got it. Yeah, everyone's view of his success is different. I just I don't I don't really want to I don't want to be a millionaire. I just I just want to have enough to pay the house off and be known for doing really good work. And and well as long as my kids come home to have a Sunday race when they're they've got their own kids, I reckon that'll be pretty much being successful.

SPEAKER_00 22:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 22:24

So yeah, because you obvious you obviously see a lot of a lot of families out there these days, like once the kids leave home they they don't want to go back and see their parents, but that's sort of something that I'd like to do.

SPEAKER_01 22:34

I can't see that happening with you, mate. Like and um But like you yeah, I'll um like I I feel for you because you you've got to you've gotta understand your worth and and feel good about yourself. Like you do good work, like you you're obviously putting time, energy and money into yourself at the moment, which is which has made a big improvement. Um like what what do you think like moving forward? Like is it because would it have something to do with you because you mentioned a few times just already in the podcast that you you're shit at the business. So I feel like there's probably a bit of wording there that you're telling yourself that you yes, you're a good chippy, but you're you're not a business person. Yeah, yeah. And that's probably gonna be holding it back in.

SPEAKER_02 23:22

I would class myself considerably well with figures because I was I used to be a site manager for a com well like commercial for a commercial builder, so we'd we'd vary from jobs from sort of around the mill mark right up to five mil. And then obviously when I was enamored, I'd probably I was probably looking after about four of those, and we'd probably turn it over anywhere in excess of a mil to a mil and a half a month. So it was a lot of and then having 30 guys on site, but I didn't have I didn't have to have the worry of the financial side of that.

SPEAKER_00 23:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 23:57

So I just had to worry about what was going on on site, make sure everyone was doing what they were supposed to do.

SPEAKER_00 24:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 24:02

And I got on along along with a lot of subbies and made some good, really rela good good relationships with that. But um, yeah, I just and then I sort of bought those our system like the systems that we had in place with that company, I sort of used a bit of the code, coding structure and that sort of stuff that we had in place to sort of start myself off, and then yeah, I I I really don't think I was covering my overheads properly, and and that sort of as you as you build your team, that starts cutting into it.

SPEAKER_01 24:36

You know it's alright to make mistakes, mate, eh? Oh, 100%.

SPEAKER_02 24:39

But yeah, but as long as you learn. I've always I've yeah, and that's and that's probably the no that's probably just brought it up. Like, I've always tried to be a perfectionist with whatever I do, so and and I now know from from going to listen to the level up event was uh what was the lady's name?

SPEAKER_01 24:57

Joe Lucins.

SPEAKER_02 24:58

Jay Lucins, yeah. I need to strive for excellence rather than be perfectionist. So it's better to get to 95% than than try and strive for a hundred percent. So yeah, we've been trying to concentrate on a fair bit of that.

SPEAKER_01 25:10

So Yeah, well mate, you um yeah, you're a great builder, so don't um don't be too hard on yourself. Like we're none of us get into this to be business people.

SPEAKER_02 25:22

No, no, I just I just wanted I just wanted to be home for my kids because we're we were we obviously we worked all over the state. When they fell on hard times, I was actually in Bundaberg on a big job up there. So we were sort of scattered everywhere. So yeah, it was nice to come home. I've only had two nights. Well, two nights out of town technically working, but the other nights have been for live life build stuff to go to Melbourne or or Adelaide or other stuff, yeah. So or to the Gold Coast event. So other than that, I haven't really had any I don't really go away. I don't really go away for work, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 25:57

So your work's within a driving distance of daily?

SPEAKER_02 26:00

Within sort of 50k. The furthest we've been out's Tatara, but that's only about no it was about 96k or something from home. So but yeah, just drive out and drive back.

SPEAKER_01 26:09

You probably do 96ks, mate, in the same time it takes me to do 20.

SPEAKER_02 26:12

100%, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 26:13

Driving into Brisbane. Yeah. But um, mate, stop being hard on yourself. I'm gonna check in on you and that, and we're gonna uh we're gonna get you changing your words because you're a good builder and you're you're you're putting in the effort now to run a good business. So we let's let's flip the switch so you you do feel worthy. Um because that that's the words we use are very powerful things and we um it's important. Do you do any journaling or like write and dance?

SPEAKER_02 26:37

Um shit of journaling.

SPEAKER_01 26:38

Yeah. Yeah. Alright,

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SPEAKER_01 26:40

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SPEAKER_02 28:46

I can't look, it's funny, eh? Look, I must have something. I don't know whether I've got something wrong with you. I must be able to do that. Seriously, by the end of this podcast, I don't want to be talking about yourself positively. Yeah, sorry. I have a bit of a difficulty translating from my head to the hand to the pen to the paper. Yeah. So I'll try and improve on that.

SPEAKER_01 29:08

Was that better, Wording? Well, look, if anything after this podcast, mate, you're gonna be aware of it. You're gonna be you're gonna be thinking about everything you're saying. Because it I do bang on about a lot, but it makes a big difference. Um and look, everyone does journaling differently. I don't think there's any right or wrong way to do it, but I I do think it's powerful stuff writing writing down and writing down in a in a way that puts it across your mind that you've already achieved those things. Like you might need to do like that school, mate, like write down a hundred lines, I am worthy, or something. Yeah, you might have to do it, yeah. More run out, eh? Like you've got a few pens at home. But um so tell us about the work you do out there because it's uh it's very different.

SPEAKER_02 29:51

We sort of

Renovations, Quality, And Doing More In House

SPEAKER_02 29:52

do a range of er anything anything and everything. Um yeah, we'd we'll tackle a new home to write through to a mainly mainly do renovations and extensions. Um that's probably where I'll probably prefer. Um I like trying to transfer the old into the new and and um that sort of stuff and try and make the house look like it was always built that way. Um so yeah, we sort of do that, and we do we do the odd shed, haven't done a shed for a while, but and then a bit of concreting and and so forth and just different jobs. We sort of do a lot of our own stuff as well.

SPEAKER_01 30:28

Yeah, you mentioned before you do the tiling, so we do our own tiling um because it's you just get in and get it done, or it's hard to get trades out there.

SPEAKER_02 30:37

It is difficult to get trades, and then I've got to sit around and wait for 'em. So it's just yeah, I just found years ago like I was wait I was doing bathrooms and I was getting a tiler to come in, and then he'd yeah, then he'd let he'd ghost you or he he won he wouldn't turn up on time. And it's like, well, this is the only job I've got on, I need this tile now so I can get to the start of the next one. So I know I just sort of I'll just give it a go.

SPEAKER_00 31:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 31:03

Can't be that hard. So yeah, work from there. We still do our home, like I do my home waterproofing. We just yeah, we pretty much do a fair bit. We've done our own painting in the past.

SPEAKER_01 31:13

Yeah. Um there's a process to everything, isn't it? Like as long as you're committed and you're willing to have a crack at it. It's yeah, it's yeah.

SPEAKER_02 31:19

I I've I finish a job and I look and you look and I'll go, yeah, I could have done the cutting in there a bit better, or you could have done this and that, and then the client walks in and goes, Oh, this is awesome.

SPEAKER_01 31:30

Yeah. But you know, you don't like that's just again, it's coming back to you being a perfectionist. So you want things to be right for your client. But um I look, I think that sort of stuff's a a brilliant way to make businesses more profitable. Like I've talked about a lot in in my business. Like we um we haven't done one for a while, but like we quite often we'll build the pools on our jobs, we'll do the landscaping on our jobs. Like there's a lot of things that we do. We we don't do tiling and stuff because a lot of our jobs have a lot of it, but being able to have the skills to do those other tasks means that that's like you said, the job can keep flowing because you're not waiting for someone to show up and do it. You're in control of the quality and the outcome of it. Yeah, but you it's something else that you're also making profit from. Because just because you're doing it doesn't mean you charge any less. You still charge the same rate that you'd have to pay someone else to do it. That's right, yeah. But it's keeping more cash flow and more more uh more funds in in your business.

SPEAKER_02 32:24

Yeah, sometimes I think sometimes I think it could be to my detriment because we could be actually on another job and I could have a subby there and then we could keep rolling, but then you sort of lose that if they don't turn up or so it's just a lot of people.

SPEAKER_01 32:37

Well and as you grow, like as you grow and you get multiple jobs on, then yeah, yeah, definitely. But and that's why it's important for like guys that are doing those sorts of jobs themselves to to be pricing it as if someone else is doing it. Because like if you're doing that, like you you can keep doing it, but then if you get two jobs or three jobs on, you've got the funds there to pay a contract to come and do it, and you move on to the next job and you you keep doing what you're best at. But it's um I I think that's the difference between a really good quality business um and well not a bad quality business, but it gives you more control. Like you when you're in control, you're not trying to manage someone else's because I find these days with a lot of contractors, especially ones that aren't on the tools themselves and have and have have a big team, as builders, we s we manage their business. Like they send contractors out and we end up having to manage them.

SPEAKER_03 33:29

Yep.

SPEAKER_01 33:30

And it shits me to tears. Like they um so yeah, like why not just do it yourself and yeah and pay yourself.

SPEAKER_02 33:37

Yeah, like I've got really good like a lot of the subies I've used since we first started and and that sort of stuff. So me Plum Lee pretty much does 90% of my work unless I'm on a job where a particular client has a has a p particular trade that they use, so I sort of normally check that.

SPEAKER_00 33:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 33:55

So yeah, and then there's a there's a couple of sparkies we're using permanently now. So we've sort of and then everything else so I can sort of cover most of it. Um plasterers are getting a bit harder and harder to get.

SPEAKER_00 34:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 34:08

Um so the little it works, like if we're doing a bathroom, we'll I'll just throw the plaster on and do that myself. Um or if we had like the job we're on now, I'll probably end up setting all the ceilings. Because it's just it's just easier and quicker on there.

SPEAKER_00 34:22

Yep.

SPEAKER_02 34:22

The boys can be doing something else while I'm just throwing a coat on, so it's not a big that's not a big issue. But if I had a whole house and I'm stepping away from that.

SPEAKER_01 34:30

Yeah, yeah. Well you gotta pick and choose what 100%. You've got to you've got to focus on what's making you money.

Hiring In A Country Town

SPEAKER_01 34:36

That's um mate, how have you gone like we've had some conversations um over the past 18 months with employees and things like I imagine being out in well a bit a little bit more rural, like it's hard to find staff? Yeah, it's it's not easy.

SPEAKER_02 34:50

Um but yeah, we've sort of I've I've I've sort of I've I've trained one apprentice right through. He was with me for about a year and a half after he came out of his time. Um but he was sort of meandering a little bit and he didn't know what it what he sort of wanted to do, and then he sort of got he got offered a job out out at the um power station doing some scaffolding, so he went out there and started doing that, which I don't begrudge him, it's way better money than what I could well know what I could ever offer him, so um, but he was a great lad. Um But yeah, he was quite a funny lad. But yeah, like so he he sort of moved on um or had another bloke there who just yeah what do he I how do you say being politically correct? In case he's listening. Or just we won't say that. No, he was look, he he's told him he he he's told it as though he was a really good tradesman and he just had said had no fucking idea. So anyway, that's that's that's to put it politically.

SPEAKER_00 35:54

I think that's politically correct.

SPEAKER_02 35:55

Yeah, so anyway, he had no idea and the other fella I've just yeah, we've just parted ways with her. Yeah, he came through his time with me and and yeah. But now he's working for another another builder in town and they'd I'm not thinking I'm pretty sure he's just doing new hours so and that'll probably suit him, because there's a there's obviously a process to have a new house and they're not doing everything that were what I was doing. Yeah. So that'll probably be that'll be beneficial for him to go that way, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 36:20

So how do you go about finding like the same way out there, like with the with mate, just go to the footy club? Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 36:27

Just to ask, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 36:28

Oh not really 'cause like country towns are are are pretty tight.

SPEAKER_02 36:32

Yeah, they are. Like obviously the first apprentice I put on, he was oh it like a one of that another bloke in town knew me and he knew I was looking for a bloke, so they rang me and he'd come around for an interview and his him and his father come around and he was a good glad, so I'd give him a go. Um that's all I think that's all you can do, is give them a go. It doesn't really what matter what academic whether they're academic or they're not, if they're willing to just turn up and have a crack, then then I'm willing to put some time into them.

SPEAKER_00 37:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 37:03

So and every one of them that have come through now have been willing to do that. Um but yeah, so it it will be chall I think it'll be challenging moving forward, but it's for me now I'm I'm pretty saddled. So with the two the two lads that I've got, we're just gonna manage with what we can do now, and then get through the next 12 months, and then we'll see where we're at, and if I can find a tradesman, then I'll then I'd be open to putting one on. But if I can't, we'll we'll just we'll see we'll just keep surviving, we'll build our team from within.

SPEAKER_01 37:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 37:35

I think that's the way we can do it.

SPEAKER_01 37:37

And you you've got a lot more structure now, don't

Quoting, Procrastination, And Letting Go

SPEAKER_01 37:39

you? Like you spend you got set time for your office, you Nah shit at that, eh?

SPEAKER_02 37:44

Come on, mate. No, I'll be honest. No, I yeah, look, I I I need that's then that's my biggest downfall is is the quote, like getting quotes out and me and my office work.

SPEAKER_00 37:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 37:56

Going to site's easy. It's it's just that's for my that's my happy place. That's where it's a problem. That's what that's the that's the problem.

SPEAKER_01 38:03

Like that's every trade in builder's happy place. But yeah, slowly getting better at that, but still.

SPEAKER_02 38:08

So what are you doing to get better at it? Um I'm trying to set time. So like so now I want to work what I want to do is work during the week and then Saturday, literally Saturday morning is well Saturday up to sort of two o'clock will be office day.

SPEAKER_01 38:23

So what are you doing about that? Is it in your schedule?

SPEAKER_02 38:26

Well, it wasn't last week. It was last week because I actually I got up good Friday, worked in the office, and then I was back in there Saturday.

SPEAKER_00 38:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 38:34

But yeah, I haven't been haven't been back in there since, but I have been, but I haven't. Um fully focused, yeah, and that's my hardest part, is I've I I struggle to focus when I get to m when I when I get focused, I'm right. But it's just getting focused, and then I procrastinate I was just walking around in circles procrastinating about it.

SPEAKER_01 38:53

It is hard, like you're in that position where you you've got the guys on site, you so you've got to make sure they're know what they're doing and um materials and quality and schedule and all those types of things, and you're obviously still trying to bring work into the business.

SPEAKER_02 39:09

So I was probably better at at scheduling and quoting and all that sort of tough part of COVID.

SPEAKER_00 39:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 39:16

I think I actually became really really reactive during COVID. So obviously when COVID first hit, we were we literally had nothing for si we had oh like four or five months booked out already, and then in the space of three weeks we had nothing. Yeah. So we didn't know where to go. So I had the young fellow still working for me, so we thought I'll was talking, we would just start doing some concrete around the around the house. We did some pars and stuff, and then literally phones started ringing, oh yeah, be right to book that job in, yep, no worries. Then people then all the people started ringing back up, and then we just went out and we blew out from there, and then obviously it was hard to get materials. Well I get materials here, get them out there, and then so yeah, I I became very reactive in that way, and I probably just I developed those bad habits during that time.

SPEAKER_00 40:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 40:08

Whereas when I was before, like when I was with my own or just my my single apprentice, I was I had all the stuff booked. I had gear book for that job, that job, and that job, and that was gear was turning up, and we just rolled through it, but yeah, I just yeah, and then I became really reactive.

SPEAKER_01 40:26

So what what do you think it is now that you you um you find it so hard to step away from the site and and lock that time in?

SPEAKER_02 40:33

Because you don't lose control.

SPEAKER_00 40:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 40:35

That's my biggest problem. Is I'm not really willing to give up control. Like Joe's only he's only sort of third, he's third midway through his third, and that's well, no, it's a first year apprentice, but he he's actually turning second year next week, so he's done well, he's done two and a bit years of school based. So he started in grade ten, so he'll he's willing truly advanced for for what I what I think is a is a first year, so yeah, we'll turn him second year next week.

SPEAKER_01 41:02

So is it possible to like have days of the week where like that you can set up tasks that you know that they can manage on their own so that you can maybe go back to the office at lunchtime and and start getting some stuff in place?

SPEAKER_02 41:14

Yeah, the only thing that worries me, like obviously we're working we work 30 to you know, we're out of town about 30k at the moment, so I just didn't want to be burnt like I obviously with the fuel situation, you know, burn through fuel to take vehicles out, so you sort of well let's work a bit longer, so we're so we're maximising the amount of work we can do out here.

SPEAKER_00 41:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 41:35

Um but yeah, yeah, there is times now like they're doing that, they're doing that clothing on their own now, and they're doing a really good job. So yeah, that's probably a time where I can go, well hang on, boys, I'm I'm gonna go home here. We'll see you tomorrow.

SPEAKER_01 41:48

Mate, after this podcast, you're gonna be on fire. Like you've got to make like the right priorities. Like if you um and it and I think for anyone that's got a business where they do have apprentices or or maybe not um as skilled people on site, like those times when you know they've got tasks that they can manage on their own, you've got to take advantage of that. And I I get it, the the stepping back and letting them but mate, sometimes people gotta figure shit out on their own and sometimes it is it's gonna cost a bit of money, there might be a couple of little fuck-ups, but that's how you learn. Um and then obviously it's how you how you deal with that situation when they when they do make those little mistakes. Like obviously if you go off your rocker and kick them in the ass and stuff, that's not really gonna get you anywhere.

SPEAKER_02 42:37

I turned up this morning to cite I I left a little bit late because I knew I was coming down here today, and then I got out there and mate's pulling some boards off the wall. Oh my god, what are you doing? He goes, Oh, we made it a bit tight. We've pushed the door jam in a bit, so the door's binding. I'm like, Oh, right eh, no worries, you've worked your mistake out.

SPEAKER_00 42:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 42:54

So he's pulled all that off, and then he's having a the door wouldn't come back, so he just fixed it up a bit, and I just give him a bit of guidance, and then like, oh sweet, thank you.

SPEAKER_01 43:03

And they'll they'll learn more from that than me blowing up at them and taking over, yeah, 100%. Yeah, yeah. The um so yeah, like that I think moving forward, mate, that's that's gonna be the key to your success. Like taking advantage of those moments and um I I get where you're coming from. Like it is hard to leave sight, like and then you and then like I you walk to you.

SPEAKER_02 43:25

It's like your safety blanket, eh?

SPEAKER_01 43:27

You just you want to take it everywhere but you can't Yeah, and you and you walk to the U five times and you like you're almost there, and then oh shit, what if I better check that and it's easy to waste an hour just mucking around. Like um procrastination's definitely a a killer for people in our industry. I I do the same thing, like you've you've just uh like that Mel Robbins at five second reel's been massive for me on that. Like I just I just do that now. Like five, four, three, two, one, like there's nowhere to go once you get the one. Like you you've got to take Action.

SPEAKER_03 44:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 44:02

So

Ten Peaks Lessons For Business

SPEAKER_01 44:03

mate, we um recently you jumped on the the challenge, so we I threw it out to the elevate members and we um what did we have? We 14 or something, we went and did the Aussie 10.

SPEAKER_02 44:13

Yeah, 40, 15 with 40, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 44:15

Yeah, so what was it that um well I guess for those listeners that um aren't aware, so um that one I did as part of my training leading up to Gakoda, which we're doing next week, but um it's something we're gonna make more regular with inside um the Elevate program because I I do believe adventure is one of the best forms of personal development. You jumped on that pretty quick when I put it out to the group. Like what what made you jump on that? Oh, it just looked like fun. Was it fun? Well, it was, sort of. It was like the last it was a lot harder than I thought it was gonna be.

SPEAKER_02 44:48

The last 500 metres was pretty shit, but um after after doing a 14-hour day and looking up at that hill going 500 metres and 100 metres of elevation change, I don't know whether I've got it in me. That was the only time I doubted, doubted whether I was gonna get through the day. So, but anyway, I yeah, it was it was really good. It might it might sound a bit arrogant, but I I always thought I'd get through it. No, not a problem. Like, and when I look back on it, I walked it pretty I wasn't real I wasn't overly well when I walked it, so had I walked it fully fit, yeah, it probably would have been a lot easier. Um But yeah, there was really no stage where I didn't think I was gonna not make it. But yeah, it was a good journey. I got to spend a bit of time on my own, walking along, having my own thoughts, and then spending a bit of time with Loki, walking along with Logie, and then just talking with the other boys, so there were conversations, yeah, me and bras. So yeah, um he just uh he texted me before actually, wish me luck on the body today. So um but um yeah it was it was a really good experience, but I think like I said when you just got us up at the summit, like we spend so much, so much time looking up at the hill, going, oh you know, fuck we've got to walk up this hill again today, you know. Like instead of just turning around looking, going, wow, my journey has been really good. And that's probably my biggest take from the whole the whole experience was from where I've come from as a kid to now, I'm like, I've come a long way, and and yeah, I I am successful in my own right.

SPEAKER_01 46:28

Yeah, we had a discussion about a week or two after it, and yeah, you said that was a big takeaway for you. Like you had a bit of time to reflect on it, and you you um you had so did did you you said you're not a journaler, but like did did you just sit on the Oh it's all in your head. It's all in your head. Yeah, that's where everything sits. Mate, get it out. You gotta get it out. It's blocking up headspace.

SPEAKER_02 46:48

No.

SPEAKER_01 46:49

It's a big head. Not really. So we we've had some conversations since then, and um like challenges that involve hills or or hiking, I think, are very relatable to business because like we did 10 peaks um in those two days, and some of them were uh quite challenging. Like some of them you were scrambling on all fours over rocks and shit. But like when you're standing at the bottom or halfway up and you're like you're exhausted and you're hurting and you're looking up and you're like, holy shit, I've still got a all that way to go. But those thoughts disappear instantly as soon as you get to the top, and then like you take five seconds to look around and look back down at where you've come from, and nothing was it like it was easy. Yeah, it was, yeah. It's um so mate, you need to think of the hills like your office work. Oh, 100%. I need to put me I need to put my office in the top of a hill so that it'll cover. Then I might be able to get there. But you're you're looking at your office work like it's that big hill, so you just I I know you can do it. Like I I believe you um you'll be very successful, you've just got to get stuck into it. But um you mentioned that you had time to sit in your thoughts on that walk. That's another reason why I think these challenges are so good because you you have to get comfortable.

SPEAKER_02 48:13

Yeah, actually, as I get older, I think I'll become more comfortable just being on my own. Like oh, like I love my wife and love my kids, but yeah, I could just sit in your teddy or go on a fishing trip or sit on a riverbank somewhere and just be with my thoughts and not even think about anything. Just listen to the birds and hopefully see a cod hit me ruler and I'd probably be pretty happy, but yeah, but other than that, mate, yeah, I'd yeah, I do I yeah, I don't mind my own time now.

SPEAKER_01 48:41

Yeah, yeah. Have you got any ambitions to do more challenges now that you've done had you done anything like that before? No, I hadn't done anything like that.

SPEAKER_02 48:48

Yeah, obviously a kid from Delby, there's not too many hills in Delby. I think there's 11 metres of elevation change from my place to the Mile Creek. So yeah, that's a pretty big hill, and that's about a four and a half K walk to the creek.

SPEAKER_01 49:00

So what what were you doing for your training?

SPEAKER_02 49:02

Uh I was getting up early in the morning before I go to the gym and throw my weight vest on, and that was about 13 or 14 kilos, throwing in it, and then walk to the gym, do the yeah, train a train at crossfit and doughy, and then yeah, and then my son had he'd drive there and I'd come home with him.

SPEAKER_00 49:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 49:21

So yeah, that was pretty much my training, or we'd or I'd go up to the bunions a couple of times, or stitched Nate up once. I said we're going up to do a 15k walk, turned out to be about 21 or 22k, so yeah, he's spewing by the end of it. But anyway, he's doing the Kakoda challenge at the Gold Coast now, so yeah, he's pretty keen for that.

SPEAKER_01 49:39

Yeah, no, awesome mate. So do you do you um yeah, do you want to do other challenges like that? No, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 49:46

Yeah, the Yukon, when I after I signed up for the 10 Peaks track, I jumped on Glenn's site and had a look through it. I'm like, Yukon, eight days, dog threating. I'm gonna go and do that.

SPEAKER_01 49:56

Well you definitely don't see snow in Derby.

SPEAKER_02 49:58

No, no, the first time I saw snow was sitting on top of Cosy Osco. So yeah, that's if you can call it snow. When we did the bigger peaks, yeah, big ice block. That's the first they've never seen it, no. Yeah, big chunk of ice. So yeah, big chunk of ice. That was as close as I've come to snow ever.

SPEAKER_01 50:14

Um yeah, I made I I think there's so many things that come out of those those experiences. Um I'm glad I put it out to the the elevate community because you don't like even when we do the live events and the and the big weekends together, like you don't get that quality time just to have conversations. And some of the conversations that come out of that um ten peaks you you may have never had because if you weren't in that situation.

SPEAKER_02 50:41

No, no, you wouldn't have.

SPEAKER_01 50:43

Like the only reason that happened is because you're there and it's you're worn out and you're there's there's nothing else to do, so you you're talking. Yeah. Um did you get it get something out of that?

SPEAKER_02 50:54

Like there was the stuff that you spoke about or you heard other people talk about that Yeah, I obviously we had some really good conversations, I had some really good combos with Luke and um even beggar on we had a we were talking we was obviously talking about how he uses VAs in his business, like a lot of stuff like that. Um but yeah, just mainly just getting my thought and get yeah, go had a clear head. Well obviously didn't have a clear head because I was crooked, but but yeah, it was um the mind was clear, I should say, not the head. Um but yeah, um sorry lost my train of thought. Um yeah, um lost me thought. So I didn't write it down.

SPEAKER_01 51:39

Um so mate, we've we've talked a bit about mental health and the the ten peaks.

Fishing, Family, And Staying Steady

SPEAKER_01 51:44

Um you've spoken to me of quite a bit about your fishing, so is fishing your go-to, like you that's your chill out.

SPEAKER_02 51:51

Well, yeah, yeah, fish I've always had a passion for fishing. Not that I'm any good at it. Um it's probably more of a surprise as the fish gets caught more than anything for the fish at fish, not me. Um but yeah, I used to ride a bit of motorbikes back in the day and played footy. Obviously, you can't ride motorbikes now. Just got too much at stake. So if I come off a bike and break a leg or bust an arm, so it's just I just can't do that financially. So that that one's out the door. But I can go away for three days fishing and I can come home with a with a good body and healthy. So yeah, no, we get away a little bit now, so we're gonna try and plan to go sort of once a month for three da at least three days, if not four.

SPEAKER_01 52:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 52:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 52:34

And um, mate, one other thing I just wanted to touch on quickly. Um now that you like you've flayed it down a little bit today, but you've you've come leaps and bounds in the last um 18 months and you you're in a better headspace. Um I think it's just like you're a very humble person. That's uh thank you. You've managed to get yourself in a position now where you're you're investing in some property, you're and you're you're going to make up all like those losses that you made. Does that like are you proud of that that you're in that position where you've been able to turn things around to be able to do it?

SPEAKER_02 53:06

Well, 100%. I wouldn't have thought I'd be sitting here. Well definitely wouldn't be. 18 months ago I wouldn't have been thought I wouldn't have been sitting here talking to you, that's for sure. So yeah, to be to be where I am today, I'm uh I am proud, but I'm also proud of my wife.

unknown 53:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 53:18

Because without her, I'd just you know, and my and my immediate and like the kids and then the immediate family, my mum and dad, her mum and dad, like if I didn't have that and my brother, then yeah, we'd well probably wouldn't well probably wouldn't well I definitely wouldn't be sitting here, so yeah, I'd probably be kicking cans down the sidewalk. I'll be working for the council and the garden crew or doing something else. I wouldn't know I'd know. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 53:41

So family's family's a big thing.

SPEAKER_02 53:42

Yeah, it's a huge thing, mate, and without that you haven't got much there's not much else really, is there? Yeah. So that's why you do it. That's why you get out of bed every day.

SPEAKER_01 53:52

Yeah, no, I love it,

Level Up Meaning And Closing

SPEAKER_01 53:53

mate. Well look, I really appreciate you um taking the time out to to drive down here. It's a what three hour drive for you to come down here today and have a chat.

SPEAKER_02 53:59

Two and a half or something, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 54:01

I'd n I'd never really been through Delby. I did when I did that charity rally last year and I drove um the last day, I drove all the way from Targa Minda back to here. And it was around like coming into Delby there was unreal. Like it's just it's flat forever. Yeah. There's nothing there. No wonder it's um when it floods, it floods a lot.

SPEAKER_02 54:20

Yeah, it's black gold. Yeah, black gold in the soil out there, mate. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 54:24

No, well mate, look, I appreciate your time. Um, and yeah, look, I'm definitely gonna follow you up and and check in on your CN. I I want you to treat that office work like those hills. So uh it's not as hard as what you think it is, mate. Just get in and get into it. Guys, look, I appreciate you uh watching and listening. Um if you've got any questions, you want to come on the podcast, if there's something that you'd like me to discuss, then make sure you reach out to us and we'll um we'll get it on board. But um, like, share, subscribe, follow, all of those things. Go to the DwaynePears.com website, grab your merch so that we can continue to level up movement. Um last thing before we get out of here, mate, and I forgot to do it on the last podcast. What does level up mean to you?

SPEAKER_02 55:06

Alright, because without that, you know what are you striving for?

SPEAKER_01 55:09

Love it, mate. Nice and simple. We'll see you on the next one.