110 - Cameos, Chaos & What’s Next

For the Season 1 finale, Matt closes things out with a Seinfeld-style ending full of familiar voices, surprise check-ins, Disney conversations, and one last bit of Season 1 chaos.

The episode touches on D23, Disney friends, door coaster schematics, Disneyland love, outsider takes, and the bigger question of where the show goes from here.

Then Matt wraps up the season by looking ahead to what’s next for his journey.

Guests:

• Steve Petolicchio
• Mike Hanna
• Jason Dodge from Dads Plan Disney
• Phil Schoen from Dads Plan Disney
• Tommy Hawkins from eTicket Report and Substack
• Drew Smith known as "Drew the Disney Dude" from YouTube.

Twitter/X Handles:
Dizhappenings: https://twitter.com/dizhappenings
Shaun: https://twitter.com/rankingthemouse
Matt: https://twitter.com/mattpeto

Before/After Watch

Music in Dizhappenings copyrighted by Audio Jungle 

Transcript

SPEAKER_07 0:12

It's happening. Welcome to the season one finale. Hope you're enjoying the ride here, guys. This has been a blast to make. I did want to talk about how this kind of came together and how I kind of landed on this format. And you know, I did kind of talk about it a little bit during the prologue, but honestly, this idea started probably in January and February, and I started recording content for this season all the way back then. A lot of the content that I recorded was timeless. I could have recorded Merry Very Merry Christmas Party versus Jollywood Nights or my epic experience or the new things that I took on with Disney World, basically anytime I wanted. Right? I could record it, but it didn't mean that I need to publish it right away. But what gets interesting is and as soon as you have some live guests, and it's not just yourself, all of a sudden, things go in the warp speed because now you need to have the gas pedal down to get the season out why everything is still timely. Because why I might be kind of on Matt's time, as soon as I get guests, you know, the time starts to tick because you want to make sure that whatever the guests are saying are relevant. So it was kind of an interesting journey on how I got here. Um and for the most part, I wanted a season full of anthology episodes, episodes that didn't need to connect to one another. I did try a couple times to kind of create an arc, you know. I did kind of outline it along the way. Um, but I don't know if it was really a central arc. I gave it a best, I gave it my best shot to to make it kind of flow from one episode to the next, but honestly, it really is more an anthology uh to each episode, or to, you know, from each episode on. It really is an anthology style show. Alright, we are very close to D23. It's very close. The schedule actually just came out very recently. I know we're all excited about the parks panels experience. Um, I did see something, and I was like, man, why don't I include that in my true and false with Scott? Uh, and that is that um there's gonna be some you know Muppet representation. Um, and to me, like that makes sense. I mean, I I think a true and false would be will they announce a Muppet season two at D23? And I would uh I would 100% go true there. I feel really confident on that. So that's one of my predictions. Um you know, in terms of other things, I don't want to beat it to death. Um, I do think that it's time for Disney to bring back a nighttime show to Animal Kingdom. I feel like that's a very safe layup. I do think we'll get the details like everybody thinks it's not gonna be as freezy and as exciting as it was two years ago at D23. But that doesn't make it that doesn't make it less appealing to to somebody that likes the park news. I think we're gonna get plenty of details about all the stuff that's coming. I think we'll finally have a good idea of what's happening. You know, if I had to throw a crazy idea out there, this is something more and something that I've talked about in the past. I want Hollywood Studios to keep going. I want it to keep building. I think it's such an underrated park, it's such a polarizing park. I mean, people really rank this thing so low, and I I don't understand it. I I think it's so good, but I understand I understand the capacity issues with it, and I really do hope they announce something new. And I I would be so excited if they announced something else was coming. I really want that Moana Live Flume, man. That that would be such a great attraction for Hollywood Studios. Yeah, would it fit better in Adventure Hand Man Magic Kingdom? Yeah, of course. But I'd love to see them do something with Moana, something with Stitch, with those IPs, and do something at Hollywood Studios. Is that a prediction? I'll say it's a long shot prediction that something else is gonna come at Hollywood Studios beyond what we know now, beyond the glob, beyond the door coaster. We're gonna get something new. And it's not gonna be something that makes you say, oh my god, the Tower of Terrorist can reach. They wouldn't do that at D23. That's something that really Scott hopefully has kind of taught everybody, and he's really taught me that Disney doesn't want to come to D-23 and give controversial announcements. They want it to be, they want people to be happy. It's why they put out the cars Frontierland expansion, right? They did it, but they didn't tell us what was going away. It's why they gave us the metropolis announcement, but didn't tell us what they were taking away. They did that days later. And like Scott said, he thinks they learned their lesson with that. So I think if it's something that could be controversial, they're gonna be extremely careful. So if they they're not gonna show you, for instance, if Moana Live Floom is taking over Indiana's stunt show, they're not gonna show that, right? But they're gonna just show you a new Moana Live Floom ride, right? So again, I think a new attraction comes to Hollywood Studios because they recognize there is a capacity issue there. We'll see how that goes. That would be my one long shot prediction. I think Figment, Spaceship Earth, I definitely could see one of those things being greenlit at Epcot. Magic Kingdom, I think you guys know what we have already. Again, are they gonna tell us that at D23 that they're gonna close Space Mountain to bring a new experience? I don't know. Is that is that exciting or is that controversial? That kind of goes in the Scott Gustin camp of that's not really the news. That I mean, a lot of people still love the original Space Mountain. So it might not get the response that you think. I saw somebody on the forum say, you know, put in Dark Vader and you know, and and Rise of the Resistance. Guys, that's not gonna happen. Especially, it's not gonna happen and announced at D23. Could it happen at 10 years from now? Sure. But why would why would Hollywood Studios go through that? Why would they take down a ride that still sells out of lighting lane single passes? It's it's not gonna do anything for capacity, it's not gonna build enthusiasm. So that kind of stuff is not gonna happen and it'd be controversial. People like the ride the way it is. All right. Let's see. So one thing I'll I'll kind of keep the door a little bit open for is that if D23 comes and blows my socks off, I will explore the option of doing an epilogue after season one, which would mean an episode at some point after season one, not a season two episode, but I would be open to doing an epilogue if there was justification. Hopefully that's fair for everybody. If not, I will start on some season two content. I'll start on it slowly. And when, just like I said, when I'm feeling it, guys, I'll put it all together, I'll start to outline it, and we'll see where where it goes. Could be a while, but I don't know when. So hopefully this season is something that you're enjoying, and it feels it satisfies you for a while. Alright. So I thought in my episode 10 that I was going to do a little D23, but we covered it so much, and I just gave you a little bit more. I also thought it was going to kind of be an overarching episode of the season, which it is a little bit, and I thought I would talk about my future. What kind of what's coming next. On things I'll be recording for, for sure. But late in the production, late in my outline writing, I thought it'd be interesting to kind of build on something that I've seen before. And that is in the last episode, yeah, all your friends show up. All the characters, maybe from different seasons, from from maybe in different shows, right? They all kind of show up and it's an ensemble of of people. And so I reached out to a lot of friends. I by the way, just for the records, shot um Scott and Sean are I'm one of the guests. I I got enough of their time, right? So I did open it though to a bunch of other people um and a bunch of other guests, and some have never been on the podcast before, uh, or any of my podcasts before. So I think it's kind of exciting. It's a nice way to cap out the season, and I tried to ask each guest a question that I thought would be specific and interesting in their expertise or in their opinion, either one. So I hope you enjoy the guest round table. Uh, it was something again that was kind of late development, and I had fun with it. All right, it's time to bring somebody very close to me. I got my brother Steve back on. Steve uh did a couple down in backs with me a few years back. He was on the old, old podcast, and I got him back to ask him a question about something. Steve, how's it going, man?

SPEAKER_06 10:42

It's going too. How about you?

SPEAKER_07 10:45

I'm doing pretty good. It sounds like somebody's doing the dishes back there.

SPEAKER_06 10:50

As soon as you ask me the question, something rolled off the counter and smack on the floor. Sorry.

SPEAKER_07 10:56

I love it. So this is kind of like just to kind of set the stage here. I you're my first guest out of the box. I'm gonna have a lot of guests on this episode, and it's kind of in the spirit of Seinfeld, where they have like the last episode of the season, and I I just try to get all my guest stars to come and do a cameo before the season twinkles away. So you made it, man. If this ever look Yeah, if this ever ends up on Wikipedia, you're gonna see your name listed as a character that showed up in season one. So I don't think that will ever happen, but there you go. All right, so here's my question. So we have a lot of new stuff coming to Walt Disney World, and I know that you're not really plugged into any of it, which is really the perfect way for me to ask this question because I'm gonna get a non-biased perspective one way or another. You don't know what's coming first, you don't know what's coming last. I am gonna share, I guess, what the IPs are, because if I don't, I feel like it doesn't really give you enough information. But out of all the new experiences that are coming, I want to know what would be the most compelling, and if you had to pick one, the most compelling to do a down and back in ten years to go see this, whatever this is. Does that make sense? It makes sense.

SPEAKER_06 12:21

I'm ready.

SPEAKER_07 12:22

Alright. So I'm gonna pull up here my notes here. All right. We're gonna first start with you saw you remember the movie The Monsters Inc. right? Monsters Inc. Yes. With um, okay, Mike and Sully and all them. Okay. So in Hollywood Studios, they are replacing um a theater show with a a brand new land. Um, and they're extending the land. They're actually building a giant building in the parking lot, and it's gonna be a monstropolis city. So picture the same walk that Mike and Sully did when they walked into the office for the first day of work. They're walking down that street, and to the right, there's a theater show, which uh is gonna replace an old um it's it's replacing Muppet Vision 3D, which I don't think you actually had the chance to saw, but it that's a very famous show. It went away last May, and they're putting a brand new Monsters Theater show. We don't have a ton of information yet there, but just hang in there with me. And as we keep walking in the land to the left is Harry Housens. That's the restaurant that Mike and I I I I forget his name. I I can't remember. I'm sorry, I can't remember her name. Snoopy's, I forget what her name was, but remember they were going out on a date for sushi to Harry Housens? Okay, so there's gonna be a restaurant there, and then all the way, New Ground, where it used to be a parking lot, is gonna be a suspended roller coaster themed out of um Monstropolis, or themed out of the doors. Don't know the entire story exactly. So that is, let's call that experience one. Okay. Okay. That's a you know, this monstropolis land.

SPEAKER_06 14:16

That sounds heavy duty. That's a big thing, man.

SPEAKER_07 14:19

I know. It's really exciting.

SPEAKER_06 14:21

Or maybe they're all big. Maybe okay, go ahead. That's one. All right.

SPEAKER_07 14:25

The next up, next one up. A tropical adventure land. So if you remember, we had a chance to do dinosaur. I don't think you were very impressed, but they ended up closing that attraction and they're re-theming it to something with Indiana Jones. They're building a Mayan temple or a Mayan Temple in front of where Dinosaur used to be. They got rid of the dinosaur, whatever, and they're completely re-theming it to Indiana Jones. And in this land, across the way, um, and I don't I don't I don't think you saw this area at all, but across the way, they're building a new Encanto attraction. And the spirit of it is that it comes for Antonio's gift, because Antonio interacts with animals. They're also building a carousel, a little carousel with some wooden figures on it. So it's basically three attractions, and they're also changing um the quick service dining there to be like Colombian food. I kind of picture like Epanadas or things of that nature. But basically, instead of Dino Land, it's tropical Americas in Animal Kingdom.

unknown 15:37

Okay.

SPEAKER_07 15:37

That's experience number two. Okay. All right, experience, experience number three. So in Magic Kingdom, they they replaced uh the Rivers of America, which is basically a huge body of water around Big Thunder Mountain, Tiana's Bayou Adventure, right near the Hall of Presidents. That giant body of water. It's right now, it's just a giant pile of dirt right now. And what they're gonna do is they're gonna build a national park in that area called Piston Peak National Park, and they're gonna have waterfalls and mountains and geysers, and it's and inside that land, they're gonna find a way to keep it isolated for the rest of the land so it doesn't really mess it up too much, doesn't mess up the atmosphere, is that inside of it is gonna be an off-rally cars racer adventure. We don't have a lot of details, but basically picture you're you know, you're you're driving in an ATV and it's going up and down, you know, hills or whatever.

SPEAKER_06 16:47

Do you remember the game Off-Road? That's what I'm thinking of.

SPEAKER_07 16:51

Yes, I remember off-road? Yes, of course. Yes, yeah, okay. Yeah, those little the little 2D game or whatever. I don't, I guess it was 2D, right? Yeah. Kind of just yeah. Well, it was over the top. You're talking about the 80s when it was out.

SPEAKER_05 17:06

Yes.

SPEAKER_07 17:07

Yep. Um, so yes, so there's gonna be, and there's also gonna be a smaller kids' ride. We're not 100% sure what that is, but again, it's gonna be like Lightning McQueen cars, and it's and it's gonna fit in the frontier land in Magic Kingdom. They're gonna make it work somehow. So that's Piston Peak National Park. And then for the last one at Disney World, to go beyond Piston Peak, there's gonna be a dark fantasy land themed after the villains. Picture Ursula, Dr. Fasilier, I don't know, um, Chermabog, Jafar, all those guys, uh, Hades, right? And and we don't have a lot of details. The rumors are that there's gonna be a a maleficent roller coaster that is probably gonna be more on the extreme side, and then there's gonna be a dark ride, um, kind of like a Mickeys and Minis runaway railway type of ride, a dark ride theme where you know you go in and see different scenes of villains. It could also be a bow ride. Again, not a lot of details. That's a little further away, but that is number four. So, out of all those new experiences, and all this, all this should be wrapped up by, if I had to guess, 2031? Which one, which one sounds the most interesting to you?

SPEAKER_06 18:38

Uh, what's I'm just curious. So, what would be the earliest? You're saying that last one is probably 2031. So, what was the earliest one that's gonna be unveiled or ready to pay?

SPEAKER_07 18:50

Tropical adventure, or I'm sorry, Tropical America is opening next year. Uh, so that's the one with Encanto and Indiana Jones. Some people think it might be a phased opening, but the lane is gonna open in 2027. And then a lot of people think again.

SPEAKER_06 19:06

Well, I would say that uh it doesn't matter when that's over. That's number four for me. I don't know. Anything in Magic Kingdom, I'm sorry, not Magic Kingdom, um uh what's the the animal one? Animal Kingdom? Animal Kingdom. I don't know. I just okay. All right, I won't try to piss it. Um I would say number three, which is Piston Peak, I think he said.

SPEAKER_07 19:30

Yep.

SPEAKER_06 19:31

Right? I would say that's number one. And uh I love it. And if I had to say a runner-up, I would say it would be the first option. Mostropolis. Yeah, and I I um I think that the the last thing you said sounds cool too. And I'm sure that the Animal Kingdom one would be would be good. But yeah, for me it's pith and peak.

SPEAKER_07 19:53

You know, it's so funny. This is a very controversial take because people are really upset that they ripped out the river. Because there was there used to be this boat you would get on and have a leisurely ride. Uh, you would visit like these little sets. They also had a little Tom Sawyer Island where you could, you know, take the kids and they could run around and be goofballs. But it was underused property, uh, underutilized property. And people were very worried about the sight lines, but I think they're gonna do a good job with that. But I it you know, on the surface, it sounds like an awesome if they could pull the ride off, it sounds like it could be an amazing experience. So I appreciate you coming on to the podcast and and coming in with a non-biased perspective. Uh, and uh thanks thanks for breaking that down, man. I I appreciate that. So look at Piston Peak National Park, and we should get more information about about those attractions in about a month or so. So hopefully, hopefully opening dates. Yeah. All right. Well, thanks for joining. Appreciate it, and uh, we'll talk real soon. I would tell people where to find you, but they can't find you. So if you want to talk to Steve, if you want to talk to Steve, you gotta you gotta talk to me first, I guess. There you go.

SPEAKER_06 21:13

All right, thanks. Yep, all right, see it.

SPEAKER_07 21:18

All right, everybody. I was able to lure Mike Hannah back from the Happily Everything Disney crowd when we used to have that podcast. Mike, what's going on, man?

SPEAKER_02 21:28

Yo, yo, what's going on? How's it going, man?

SPEAKER_07 21:31

I love it. You still got the same intro. I love it. All right, so real quick, yeah. I I wanted to ask you, you know, you've been to you've been to Disneyland, I'm I'm thinking what, three times? Does that sound right?

SPEAKER_02 21:48

That's correct, yeah. 2019, 2022, and 2024. Uh that is correct, three times.

SPEAKER_07 21:55

Okay. So I would say for the most part, people that listen to this podcast are walking. Disney World people. But you kind of inspired me as well as others to go and visit Disneyland. I mean, look, both of us are DBC members. We both have had annual passes. We love going to World. We're closer to World. It's easier to get to World, right? But still, you found a way to get to Disneyland three times, and you're going, you're going in a couple D's. And I guess what attracts you to Disneyland? Like, why do you still feel like you need to go? You know, maybe almost every other trip or every few trips, why do you feel like you still need to go to Disneyland? Like, can you tell the audience on why it's so important to get out there?

SPEAKER_02 22:45

Yeah, no. So to me, it's two different experiences when you compare Disney World and Disneyland. A lot of people think that it's the same thing. It's just ones on the East Coast, ones on the West Coast. I, you know, it I strongly disagree with that because Disneyland, to me, the best word that I always use is it feels more authentic, right? You have that original nostalgic that Walt Disney stepped on. And it just has this charm about it that even though it's smaller, you know, on a scale compared to Disney World, it just feels so much uh more there's so much more rich history with it. Um and to me, it's it's all also it's easier to just kind of not have to plan everything out when you're in Disneyland. A lot of these restaurants, rides, you can just go there and say, oh, I want to do this, or oh, I want to eat here, and not have to worry about getting a reservation 60 days out or making sure you get a lightning lane just to get on this ride. So you're not waiting 120 minutes. It's it's just a different experience. And not only that, there's also you know, unique attractions, specifically just to the Disneyland resort area. You know, you have um Indiana Jones, you have Matterhorn Bobsleds, um, you have like a different um experience when you compare Space Mountains together, Splash Mountain or or Tiana's Bayou Adventure. Um even Thunder Mountain's different, Pirates is different. Um sometimes you have unique layovers with Haunted Mansion and it becomes nightmare before Christmas around Christmas time. Small World. Small World, I will skip it in Disney World all the time, but in Disneyland, I want to go on Small World. That's how unique it is out there. I mean, it's just a massive facade. It especially during Christmas time, too. Like it it you go, it's like Christmas theme with Christmas carols and everything. It's so unique and it's just a different experience, very authentic. Um and what's nice is the two parks, Disneyland and California Adventure, they're right next to each other. So if you had like the hopper, you can just kind of like just walk back and forth between the parks. Um, I mean, it just to me there's if I had to sum it up, it's more of an authentic feel. It feels like you know, it's less planning, it's more relaxed. And you can even do it where you can stay off property and still be within five minutes of of the hotel or of I'm sorry, of the the parks. And it's you know, it's just very, very um, you know, it it means so much to my family because the first year we went, um, my son got sick and it really was such a difficult experience to to do because you know he wasn't himself and a lot of the things we couldn't do. And then the second time we went in 2022, it was probably out of all the trips we went on, it was by far our our favorite vacation when we asked the family. It every single one of us, because it was just every single thing, it was like a yes vacation, basically. You know, everything we wanted to do, we did. It was weather was perfect. That's the other thing. I I you know I'm rambling on and on and on, but the weather, I mean, right now it's let's say 80 degrees out there, 90 degrees, no humidity. When you go to Florida, 80, 90 degrees feels like 110 monkey. As soon as you walk out your room, you're sweating. Not not in California, not in LA, area Anaheim. It's it's amazing out there. Um, I'm sure there's a lot more I'm missing, but you know, that all this stuff just off the top of my head. And um that that's that's basically why I love it. And I know talking to you, you know, and building it up to you, especially after that 2022 trip, um, I think that really kind of turned you on to it. And I know you uh you were able to make it out there, I think, for a solo trip when you were out there for work, and then with the family, I think, last year for the semi. Is that right?

SPEAKER_07 26:56

That's right, yeah. Yeah, I mean, my family doesn't stop talking about the trip. I mean, it was in consideration to do again this year. I mean, it it you know, the weather is obviously amazing, and it's tough to undersell that. But I think a lot of times people think that it's just like a smaller version of Disney World, and it's really not that. It's just it's almost like it's almost like park number five and park number six. Like that's what it feels like to me. It's it's like there's six unique parks in this country, and you gotta you gotta visit them all. And I think Disneyland Park is my favorite park out of all of them because of what you said, is that you go in there and you don't have to worry about lightning lanes, you don't have to worry about reservations, you can just kind of take in and hit the rides that are standby only, which there's so many more of them there than it is Disney World. It's just a very different experience. I feel like it's almost like Epcon in some ways on steroids in terms of just being able to absorb the environment, the food's better there, especially, you know, we're talking castle parks. It's way better, Disneyland and Magic Kingdom. Um, so yeah, I mean, I I definitely think the Disneyland resort is an absolute worthwhile visit. And the fact that you keep going back, I think is a testament to that.

SPEAKER_02 28:17

And we, you know, traveling from you know East Coast to West Coast, it's not it's not something where you can go to Florida. Maybe, you know, nowadays it's it's tough to get like that trip. You can still do it, right? We're $49, $65 or whatever, um, you know, from Philadelphia to Orlando, but from Philadelphia to LA, you know, it's a lot more pricier to do that. But you know, we love it so much that we're willing to kind of throw it into our rotation, you know, once every two years, every three years, uh, to do that. And, you know, they're always doing new different things out there or different things. Or even when it comes to like the little things, like the food, they're always changing it up, or you know, whatever um party they have going on, you know, with Oogie Boogie Bash, or um, you know, along the all or the festivals they have, and it's it really is you uh if you're a Disney fan, you really have to make the trip if you haven't been out there to Disneyland, because it really is such a unique experience. And then as soon as you walk in, you'll feel the charm and the authenticity of the park, um, you know, especially at Disneyland. And like you said, it's even though it's smaller, it's so much more compact. And they the way they have everything laid out, and and there's just so much there uh with the attractions, uh, especially the fantasy land arc rides um that that are kind of unique to that area, Disneyland.

SPEAKER_07 29:44

Yeah, there's just as much to do in two parks and it is four. I mean, I I it's crazy to say that, but if you're just looking for rides, look it up. I mean, it's crazy. There's it's pound for pound. It's a very impressive compact park and or compact compact resort. And it's it's worth your time, people. That's that's what Mike and I are trying to say. Make sure you get out there. All right, Mike. Thanks so much. Can people find you on Twitter if they want?

SPEAKER_02 30:12

Yeah, I'm on Twitter, uh, MSH 11982. Uh basically my initials and birthday kind of boring, but um, yeah. I mean, if you want to follow me, that that's that's great. I mean, big fan of Matt. You know, I've known Matt since uh I was eight years old, seven years old, maybe uh earlier than that. And we go way back, and uh our love for for Disney, you know, it has stemmed back since what, maybe like 10 years. Um, and so yeah, definitely uh, you know, hopefully you guys are are pushing Matt's pod uh podcast because he is a great guy and a huge Disney enthusiast. And uh, you know, man, I appreciate you uh having me on as a as a guest here, and um, you know, we'll we'll talk soon.

SPEAKER_07 30:55

Love it. Thanks, Mike. Appreciate it.

SPEAKER_02 30:58

All right, thanks.

SPEAKER_07 31:02

All right, everybody. So we have two more guests, and these these two people are more than just guests to me. I I consider them friends. Uh, we got a chance to hang out and watch the last, I don't know, few weeks of Muppet Vision 3D. We got a chance to do a down and back uh and got to watch that together. So I got Jason and Phil on, who also own the Discord server that that we still participate in. And I think you guys are rebranding your podcast, correct?

SPEAKER_04 31:36

I mean, this is the the official announcement, I guess, Phil, on on Matt's podcast. Yeah, we literally 10 minutes ago we we launched it. But yeah, we were the DBC pod for goodness, Phil, is it six and a half years at this point? Yeah, 2020 in March. And then um, yeah, we we figured it's time to kind of rebrand it, help out the uh, I don't know what the SEO, be a little bit more descriptive of what we do. So it's called Dad's Plan Disney because we're dads and we like planning Disney trips. So very, very explicit in what it what it what it means. Yeah, probably after after our initial plan fell through with what we were doing. But yeah.

SPEAKER_07 32:17

So what's the acronym there? Uh Dad's Plan Disney. Is it can you can you go like DPD? D. I don't know. I guess so.

SPEAKER_04 32:26

Is that I don't know, but I haven't really gotten that far yet.

SPEAKER_07 32:29

Yeah, well, congratulations on that. That sounds good. I know the DVC pod was kind of built on what, the old Diz boards, right? So it makes sense that you guys are rebranded.

SPEAKER_04 32:40

Probably should have done that year uh even even a year or two ago with what's going on on that site. But uh yeah, I know we're excited. We're excited about the change, a little bit more descriptive. We're gonna go kind of move a little bit farther away from just kind of hear some news, here's some games. It's all gonna be like, you know, by the time you listen to our podcast, you probably already know the news already, so you don't we don't need to reiterate it. So we're gonna kind of talk still talk about the the the news, but the more reframe it as you know how this affects, you know, planning, how it affects what we would do, and just kind of opinions rather than like a strict like news section where we kind of rattle off the news.

SPEAKER_03 33:16

Which I think is our our kind of angle, right? Like what we're we bring to it is we're not locals, we're not there every day or whatever. But what we do is plan trips for our families probably more often than maybe our uh significant others would like. Um, but we do that a lot, and so yeah, as Jason said, it's gonna be more of what updates and what's going on around Disney, whether it's new things coming out or changes or whatever, and how that impacts how we plan the trips and just how our planning has evolved over time and stuff like that. That's been a big theme we've had soon. So yeah.

SPEAKER_07 33:47

Yeah, I mean, I I expect Jason to be a DVC owner like in the next year or so after his last trip.

SPEAKER_04 33:54

That that's uh that that's gonna be a story for the uh for the podcast for sure. But uh we we got uh my wife finally got a taste of a one-bedroom suite at a Kidani last week, and uh she's like, I don't know how I'll ever go back to like having not having that much room because she we we was in sharp contrast because we stayed at uh Boulder Ridge for two nights um after our Kidani stay, and it's just like the the single the the studio that sleeps five, and she's like I can't deal with this anymore. So I'm like, okay, well, we gotta work it out financially so we do it financially um the right way financially rather than just plopping on you know a big contract. So uh but yeah, we're we're thinking about it. And I think how many points.

SPEAKER_07 34:33

Yeah, you're probably gonna need like 250, right? For a one bedroom, I'm thinking.

SPEAKER_04 34:36

I for a week, isn't that well? The the thing that really like gets us is we love taking my mother down, so that puts us at six, which kicks us up out of studios and the one bedrooms, which I think is completely ridiculous that a one-bedroom can't sleep six, but uh the art of animation uh family studios can sleep six, so it is what it is.

SPEAKER_03 34:59

So we I am I am wondering if Lakeshore Lodge might have more options or what they have, um, because it's huge and it's like all DVC, right? So maybe they'll have like more larger accommodations.

SPEAKER_04 35:09

I guess what's yeah, maybe, but then again, if at with a new D VC you're buying direct, and now it's probably gonna be triple the cost of like an animal kingdom contract, which is you know something that we have to consider as well.

unknown 35:20

Yep.

SPEAKER_07 35:21

All right, I have two questions for both of you guys, and I'll let you get out of here because I know you're planning the podcast rename and all that stuff. Um, my my first question is you both are are obviously huge fans of Epcot. I know Phil, it's it's his favorite part, but Jason, you've been pretty um, I don't know, pretty persistent on how you feel about Diet Epcot. And when you listen to my season, you'll hear the same kind of stuff. So we really see eye to eye with this. And I would say, you know, you've had what two summers in a row at Diet Epcot. And does it just feel super stale like at this point for you? Like if you were to go back next July and you had a six-day hopper, right? Would you hit or not let's say you didn't have a hopper? Let's make it more interesting. Would you go back to Epcot the second day still? Or would you do Hollywood twice?

SPEAKER_04 36:19

Well, I mean, this is kind of like an odd question because I I don't think I'll ever do Disney without hoppers again, right? But like just to kind of fit your scenario, would I do a second day of Epcot in July?

SPEAKER_07 36:28

Diet Epcot. Diet Epcot.

SPEAKER_04 36:30

Diet Epcot. Well, how about how about we define Diet Epcot uh for for the folks listening? So Diet Epcot is basically Epcot without festivals. So it's you're basically getting vanilla, it's all the attractions, all the food booths are boarded up. There's not a lot of extra entertainment unless you have some preschoolers that want to go to the uh club goofy over there in Communicator Hall. Um and you know, that's all it is. It's like it's the there are there are some bands that play occasionally and stuff like that, but you don't have like the storytellers and the entertainment and you know, all the different bands all over the place. So yeah, it's it's it's definitely like so. The question would I go back a second day? Probably not. I mean, it really depends because the main draw there is for my family is guardians, right? All my kids love that ride. And I don't know if I could say, okay, let's say we go Epcot our second day and we have four more park days to go. Could I really tell my family, hey, uh you can't do guardians again for the rest of the trip? So I mean that that would be the main influence. But if it was just like based off of like last two trips, probably not, because you know, funnily enough, I I mean we went to Epcot four different days out of our six park days this summer. And I love Epcot. I love going in, so right? Like, you know, I love going everywhere, I love walking around, but like after two hours of being in Diet Epcot, you're like, there's nothing keeping me here, and that's what's frustrating. So um, yeah, I I I don't I don't think I would go back a second day if if if I had single park tickets for for six for six parks today.

SPEAKER_07 38:04

Okay. And Phil, you know, Epcot is your favorite park, right? So I want you to do this. Out of all the parks that you've been to, you rank Epcot one. If Epcot was always in diet Epcot mode, where would you put Epcot?

SPEAKER_03 38:21

That's a good question. Um, question. Yeah, I mean it's hard to imagine it not having and uh and it's funny because even we when we go in the summer, we usually go late August, so food and wine has started up. So even though that's not my favorite festival, there's still stuff going on. Um, yeah, I mean, I think it would probably drop. It would probably get below. I mean, my number two right now is Hong Kong Disneyland, so and then Disneyland, California, probably get down to like third or something like that, if it was permanently Diet Epcot, because the festivals is kind of like well.

SPEAKER_04 38:52

Well, how about you rank them just at Disney World?

SPEAKER_03 38:54

Just at Disney World?

SPEAKER_04 38:56

Does it drop the number two at Disney World for you?

SPEAKER_03 39:01

Currently, I think it still would be number one. I think there's still enough to do. I still would go around all the countries and stuff like that. Now, in the future, when we got Tropical Americas and stuff like that, and maybe they add a nighttime show at Animal Kingdom. I think that that that has the potential to zoom up my rankings, that park when it's like updated. Yeah, I mean, if but I think right now it'd still probably be number one because I don't know, there's there's just enough negatives about the other parks that I would still probably pick up card over.

SPEAKER_04 39:27

I mean, just go back to like the dad's plan Disney uh theme, Phil. Like I would say 80% of your planning is like what snacks, what food to eat at whatever festival you're going on. Because other than that, it's just like you have to go on living with the land or your wife would leave you. You have to do Spaceship Earth. Um, you do Guardians because it's Guardians, you know, like all the like my thing is with Epcot, it's like you hit the big three, right? Remy, frozen, test track, you get your single lane pass uh for Guardians, and then like everything else is like a 10-15 minute wait, right? So, like there's really no planning involved, it's just let's go there while we're walking through it and hit it up. So, like died up. I mean, I don't know, Phil, if I'm gonna spoil some of our my talking points with you for and you won't have this reaction when we're recording in a couple days for our trip report, but I think Animal Kingdom is my favorite part right now, and um like I I could see how Animal Kingdom might trump Epcot for you if like the changes next year are like substantial.

SPEAKER_03 40:33

Yeah, it's just tough now without a nighttime show and it closing hours at number one. But um, I mean part of Epcot too for me is just walking up to and hearing the music, and then at night the beacons going off on Spaceship Earth, and and even just I mean, some of my favorite memories is is just with my family or when I'm with friends walking through World Showcase and like taking in all the details and stuff like that. So yeah, but I I totally get your point, Pat. Like, after you do that, do I need two full days of that?

SPEAKER_07 41:00

You know, that's what I'm getting at. Exactly.

SPEAKER_03 41:02

Yeah, like I can't imagine doing a trip and like not going to Epcot, even if it's Diet Epcot. But yeah, I mean you are like I know I am not so that's spoiling. That's a party thing. That's a party thing, yeah. But uh like a regular trip, um, just to like to hear that music and stuff like that. But uh but yeah, it's it's it's there isn't as much to do without the festival. And and it isn't just the food booths, like Jason was saying. There's like even if it's just seeing the topiaries during Flower and Garden or or the bands or or or you know the different things going on for the holidays and the artists that are out selling things and stuff like that. Like you can get little tastes of that in Diet Epcot, but not enough, I think, to uh to handle multiple days and stuff like that. And and like I said, I think I mentioned this on Discord. If you have hoppers, it totally changes the role of Epcot. Because when there's festivals, when there's booths and stuff like that, you want to hop back over there and like I gotta try another dish, something like that. Where, like, you know, Jason, like you had hoppers, you went there almost every day, even without Diet Epcot, even with Diet Epcot. When the booths are there and stuff, I almost want to get there on every single day if I have hoppers.

SPEAKER_04 42:07

Yeah, I mean, the reason why we went back so much was the first day we went, uh our family split up the second day, and uh we met at Epcot because that's where my son wanted to go. So and he's like, I want to go to Epcot. I'm like, okay, we'll we'll head over to Epcot. And we kind of did the normal um, you know, loop around type of thing. And then, but we were out of the park by like 6:30. And the second day that we went um was because we wanted to do the um the 4th of July fireworks, so we kind of did like a nighttime, you know, Epcot tour. And then by that time on 4th of July, we went back for the 4th of July only because we had the um behind the seeds tour. Now, if if I did not have that, or if I could reschedule it, we wouldn't have gone that day. We were went in for the seeds store and then we left. And then uh we went our last day because we had lightning lanes planned for that day. So that's that was the day we were gonna do like Remy and stuff like that. So um we did the four days. I don't know if I would have done the four days if it didn't turn out that way, but um I mean I didn't mind it either.

SPEAKER_07 43:08

But I mean the other thing was you had the quick service dining plan, right? Like, so you know, one thing I like one we did one summer, right? And we actually had a really good time. We just did different restaurants, we did different sit-down restaurants, but you are losing the booze, right? So, but if you're like, you know what, I want to I want to cross off Rosencrown, you know, um the the sushi place, Tepan, Tepanito, whatever, Viennapoly, whatever. If you want to cross off all those places, you could still do like half days in at Summer at um Died Epcot, I think. But it's clearly it doesn't have the value to me uh without without the festivals running.

SPEAKER_04 43:47

Yeah, I mean, I mean you you want to get a get me going on a rant, like part this is gonna be a practice rant for the for our show, though. I mean, like there's not even good quick service. I I was arguing with Wheezy on on Discord. Well, you know, you've got this place, this place. Like there's no good quick service in Epcot outside of La Hall and Paris. Um, the Mexic Mexican Pavilion uh is is fine because it who doesn't like a good taco or anything else like that, but it's nothing special, right? Um, and then you've got uh the Regal Eagle, which is it my wife's a vegetarian, so it's kind of tough to go into a barbecue joint with it, but still good food, but you're still either sitting outside or or inside. It's nothing like it's nothing like you're sitting down at like a lot of the table service restaurants. That's why I like food booths in Epicotons. You get a little taste, you move on, a little taste, you move on. Um, that's what I want at Epcot. I can't get a little taste of stuff walking around just like I don't need a taste of Mexican food because we have good Mexican food where I am. I don't need a taste of good uh American barbecue because I can get that where I am. Like, so the only the only place I love going into is La Hall because you can get a freshly made baguette, you can get some of the other pastries in there uh that are quite tasty and sit down and eat and move on because it lahall I think is really built for like a little bit of this, a little bit of that. It's like a giant food booth essentially in there. So that's what I like about it so much. I mean, you got connections.

SPEAKER_07 45:05

You got connections, you got sunshine seasons, which I know your wife says is got to be revamped because it looks like a 1970 mall. It's not good in there, though. It's just standard fare. I mean, I like I love Yorkshire and fish and chips, but again, that's more of a grab kind of place, you know.

SPEAKER_04 45:21

But I agree with you. And I had that too, because I was like, I I will get some fish and chips. We had that for dinner one night, but you know, half my family doesn't like fish, so um it's kind of tough. But I but if there were more fish and chip locations on every single type of like like I I like that about the UK, so like I'll give them that that that country is pretty good because you can get a taste of you know the UK pavilion. But like if there was a stand where you know Italy serves like pizza, like that's it's not even pizza, it's it's a terrible food, right? So like if you can if there were to be some like you know, I mean there's some places where you can get like gelato and other other things.

SPEAKER_07 45:57

Germany, I think they got the brats, I think. Don't they bratz and pretzels and stuff? Yeah, I I agree though. It's not it's not festival heavy, like it's not it's not like the festival booth where there's just food everywhere. I agree.

SPEAKER_04 46:10

Yeah, I think Disney, I think Disney could do better, and I think the um the summer cool kids summer type stuff at Epcot is actually really cool. Like every time you you cut across uh communic hall with with Goofy, it's like that place is hopping, but it's all like four and five-year-olds, right? And I I think they need more like I didn't even see the Encanto show play at at all when I was at Epcot the four the four times I was there. And uh maybe it's the time of year, it's super hot, they're not gonna have a lot of uh live entertainment.

SPEAKER_07 46:40

I don't know, but uh sounds like you're lucked out, man. That Encanto show is running too long. That that is that has been around for what? Is it three years now? They gotta do something with that space.

SPEAKER_03 46:50

It was definitely it was only supposed to be temporary, too. It was like, well, we're starting with this and then we're gonna switch it out, and then it's been three years.

SPEAKER_07 46:55

They'll renew it until Tropical America is open. Hopefully it'll go away. Yeah, we'll see. All right, all right. So, last question for you guys because I'm it's a shame. Every time I get on with guests, I'm like, you just take a few minutes, and I'm like, oh, it's still the the timer just going by. Well, I'm good.

SPEAKER_04 47:09

Let's go, let's rock and roll.

SPEAKER_07 47:10

All right, the last question is Space Mountain, right? They announce it's closing permanently. The current version is closing in November. Now did they announce it?

SPEAKER_04 47:22

Did I miss something within the last two hours?

SPEAKER_03 47:24

No, no, it's just been rumored, and the rumor keeps popping up, and some people are speculating, and now every other site's running with it. I have no idea how if it's based in anything substantial, but it's it's it's running rampant, the rumor that it's gonna be uh closing soon for uh a refurb, and people don't know the scale of it, whether it's just like a big thunder retrack or if it's like totally a new track and new style and everything like that.

SPEAKER_04 47:50

So I'm curious what Phil's gonna say because this is gonna be practice for our fight actually on our podcast uh this weekend.

SPEAKER_07 47:56

Actually, I'm gonna change the date out because Phil's got a trip in November. I might be going at the end of the year. Let's say it's May of next year, and now we're we're all kind of a distance from our our last trips, right? Do we do a down and back to ride on Space Mountain for the last time?

SPEAKER_04 48:18

No. No, you don't do it. It's a hundred percent no. I mean, I might go just because you guys are going and it's a it's an excuse to go to Disney World, right? Like, but like if if all all others said everything else being equal, absolutely, absolutely not. Like, I literally was getting off that ride, like, I think my kids might be old enough next time we go down that I can just put them in the queue and wait for them to get out, and I'll go spend some time with the wife and grab a cup of coffee or something. It is like I love the aesthetic, I love the music, I love the ride. It's just painful, and I am not comfortable going through that attraction whatsoever.

SPEAKER_03 48:51

Yeah, for me, I think it depends what the what the change is. If it's like what they're doing in Tokyo where they're literally knocking it down.

SPEAKER_04 48:57

Wait, hold on, but you gotta answer do you do a down and back for Space Map?

SPEAKER_03 49:00

Well, no, that's what I'm saying. It depends what the change is. If it's a if it's a big thunder retrack, then no, like that type of thing. If it's we're knocking it down and it's gonna be a completely different ride, I would do a down and back for it. Because it's it's the original one. There's a lot of history around it being the first indoor coaster ever built and stuff like that. I would want to say a proper goodbye to it. It's my like my daughter's one of her favorite rides, period. Like I think in that case I would. If it's just a retrack and it's still gonna be more or less the same ride, just updated and refreshed, and you know, a significant update like Big Thunder was, but still kind of the same you know, layout and stuff like that. I don't think I would.

SPEAKER_04 49:38

Do we think that they're gonna take down the building?

SPEAKER_03 49:42

I mean, that would be the most extreme case. I think other people are saying it the frame would stay the same, but that they would totally gut the inside and it would only be one track instead of two and be like side-by-side cars and like like basically a completely different ride.

SPEAKER_04 49:56

Well, if they completely I mean they're gonna do that, they're gonna tear down the track. Like that, I that's for sure gonna go. Like it's gonna be and I don't think it I think there's a very good chance that you don't do a one-to-one redo of the track.

SPEAKER_03 50:07

I think that's yeah, well, that's what I mean. That's what kind of the debate is.

SPEAKER_04 50:09

What so would is that is that to you a complete gut meaning like that?

SPEAKER_03 50:15

I think if they're switching it out to something where it's like a completely different experience, other than that it's in that shell, it's not the you know, the little cars going it you know, zipping by and you're sitting one by three and stuff like that. I think for me, I would go down if it's gonna be that substantial. I mean, they're talking about you know potentially inversions and stuff like that. Like who's talking about?

SPEAKER_04 50:35

I don't think the word inversion yet. I don't think we're making stuff up. They have a 400 minutes drive right next door.

SPEAKER_03 50:41

Paris Paris has inversions and stuff. So I don't know.

SPEAKER_04 50:43

Yeah, I think I think the ride, if I'm gonna make a prediction uh on your show, Matt, I think I'm gonna say that um there's a lower chance that it's a side-by-side, but I I don't think they're gonna do inversions. I think they're gonna keep it the same style so kids of the same age and size can go on it. Um there's uh there's you know, I I most likely the villains coaster is gonna be a little bit more thrill. I I don't think they'll want to put two thrill coasters right next to each other for Tron for Tron, right? With that's right there. But I could see I could see that I could definitely see them keeping the aesthetic, like the 1980-ish, kind of 70s, 80s sci-fi aesthetic and sounds, but updating the graphics, updating the floors and the walls. Um, I could totally see them redoing a lot of like the um the set pieces, but like tucking them away in different places to preserve them, but have like a more updated style of it. Um, but they're gonna want to keep because I if they just do a one-for-one um two tracks to one track, but double the size of the cart, so it's two by three. I still think I I I'm willing to bet that that's a lower capacity than what's existing because when you're loading a two by three, it takes longer than loading a one by uh one by three. And I think they're not gonna want to get rid of any kind of capacity on that that attraction. So, you know, they would have to they would have to do something that either increases or maintains the current level of capacity for that attraction. So I think gutting it for one one track is less likely, unless they make it longer or shorter or something else like that. What about you, Matt? Would you go for it? Is your down and back pencil then for this?

SPEAKER_07 52:19

I would definitely, especially, yeah. I mean, uh like I said, I plan to be there at the end of the year if that works out great. Um, if if not, a hundred percent I'd be down there. A hundred percent. Um well I mean to me, I the the ride just feels like you know, the first time I went to Disney World, that was the ride that I wanted to do. Like I and I and I know it's it's not a it's not a back-friendly ride. Uh like I know, but it just has so much history to it. What is it? Is it 50 years old? It's it's gotta be 50 years old, right?

SPEAKER_04 52:50

I mean it's slightly older then. Or slightly younger than the party.

SPEAKER_07 52:54

I got memories of both my daughters walking in the queue and hearing the little, you know, and that's the thing, is it down and back that I that I grabbed the girls? They're gonna have to probably get their last experience in December because it you know how you know how that kind of multiplies real quick. Um but you know, yeah, I would definitely I would definitely consider it.

SPEAKER_04 53:14

Now, I I'm thinking like I have video of all my kids going on and off that. So I'd like the nostalgia hit of that. Would I I I just I don't know if I would want to go down just for that, other than hey, I can swing another Disney trip type of thing. So that that would be the main because we had so much fun a year ago with the the Muppets down and back that someone would want to do it again.

SPEAKER_03 53:33

I mean if you're just saying it's an excuse to do like a guy's trip or something, then yes, definitely we'll go back.

SPEAKER_04 53:39

100%.

SPEAKER_07 53:40

That's what I like to hear. All right, this was really good. Um I guess I'm just gonna one more follow-up to this. You think that this will come out at D23, or do you think it will come out before?

SPEAKER_04 53:54

If they do. I was gonna actually say I was actually gonna give you a follow-up. So I'm assuming they announced this at D23, right?

SPEAKER_07 54:02

Like, I don't know.

SPEAKER_04 54:05

I definitely think they do, but my question is assuming that they do announce it at D23, let's just say they do, is it gonna be a carousel of progress? Hey, we're announcing it and it's closing in a month, or are they gonna say, hey, we're closing it, or it's gonna be closed, but we're closing it in six months? What's your before and after date on closure if announced at D23? Give me a date, Matt. A before and after date on when they announce it, or no, no, it let's say they announce it at D23. What is the before and after closure date?

SPEAKER_07 54:32

Okay. Um, well, first of all, I don't think they'll announce it at D23. They're closing it.

SPEAKER_04 54:35

That's the thing.

SPEAKER_07 54:36

But let's say I'll I'll I'll play it. I'll play along. I'll go. Well, how about this?

SPEAKER_04 54:41

The announce it sometime between now and D23. Okay.

SPEAKER_07 54:47

I'll say um I mean it's probably gonna take 18. I and that's the thing. I don't know what they're doing, but um at the very least, it's gonna be a year, right? At the very least, it took Big Thunder, and that's an easy and open track, yeah, right? It took what 16 months for Big Thunder? So we is this thing gonna be a two-year outage?

SPEAKER_04 55:07

So I'm saying like the not how long it's closed. I'm saying they're the day that when they announce it in part this this attraction is gonna be closed in six months, right? Is it right?

SPEAKER_07 55:17

So is it is I guess I'm trying to figure out when it's gonna come back online. That's where my head was going. Like when do they want it back up? Do they want it up for you know when when villains is open? Do they like do they want it up when Piston Peaks open to have traffic kind of offset there? So that's where my head was going. So I mean, I would say January. I'll go January, um, you know, early January, kind of like the dinosaur went away. That's probably I'll go January 8th, 9th, something like that, right after the peak holidays.

SPEAKER_04 55:48

That's a good date, actually. Because I I think they're gonna want it through the holiday season in that park.

SPEAKER_03 55:53

Yeah, and I just I just pulled a UMatt. I looked up at the at the page for Mickey's Very Merry, and the first attraction it cites is about Space Mountain with the high-energy holiday chairs. There you go. Right.

SPEAKER_04 56:06

Yeah, because they got the overlay. And then because if they don't do that, they're gonna say, oh, they're gonna want to keep it up for like all the spring break, the races, the cheers, and all the other stuff as you start hitting that gambit. So I think the week after or the after the first week of the new year where it starts slowing down just a little bit, they're like, All right, we're shutting it down. Right. So I think I I can't go before and after because I think you I think you hit it right there on the head.

SPEAKER_03 56:30

I mean I think it's right around then, and then then that gives them roughly a year and a half, right, to get it up for like the next holiday season, like you know, that sort of thing.

SPEAKER_04 56:38

So no, I think I think maybe by the next summer, I think it's down for a year and a half minimum, right?

SPEAKER_07 56:44

To be honest with you. So that would be what the summer of 2028, which hopefully they'll have some other things to to get intent to visit, right? Because summer's the soft season.

SPEAKER_04 56:55

Well, I think if you go 2028, you're gonna have Tropicals already gonna be open. Already open. That's gonna be an intent to to visit because that thing's gonna be huge, and then you're gonna have potentially monsters, space, and piston peak potentially. Well, Castle Congress will probably be open next year anyway. But uh Piston Peak won't be. I don't think Piston Peak is until 29. I think they're gonna layer it that way. Yeah, that's my guess. Who knows? Who knows?

SPEAKER_07 57:24

Well, hopefully we'll get some more info, but where can people find you guys, especially with everything changing around?

SPEAKER_04 57:31

Man, we just had all the links. What is it, Phil? It's everything's at dad's Plan Disney.

SPEAKER_03 57:35

Dad's Plan Disney. So dad's D A D S Plan Disney, all one word. We're pretty much everywhere on social media. I've got the updates. That was actually one big thing we had to do was like, are those handles available everywhere? And that's kind of where we it worked out that way.

SPEAKER_04 57:50

I don't know how long it takes for the YouTube, our personalized name to like switch URL to switch it over, but if you go to youtube.com forward slash at Dad's Playing Disney, it pops up. But um, it'll take, I think, I think the at will disappear after a while. But that that's where you can find us, or on Discord where everybody can find us.

SPEAKER_07 58:07

All right, awesome. All right, well, thanks so much, guys. Really appreciate you as always, and uh let's get it down and back in 2027 for sure. I love it. Thanks, Matt, for having me.

SPEAKER_05 58:16

All right, thanks, thank you. All right, everyone.

SPEAKER_07 58:23

I have another guest, and he's somebody that I've been following along um for a bunch of years now. He does incredible work, um, and he's he's got his own substack. I love the way he breaks down roller coasters and how they're built. I think the way he covered Cosmic Rewind was like nobody else. I mean, he had like a like a VR video or an A or a video production of how Cosmic Rewind was gonna work. And I love his work so much, and I'm so honored to have him on the podcast, finally for the first time. Tommy Hawkins.

SPEAKER_00 59:04

How are you doing? You alright? How's it going? Doing pretty good, man. Don't adjust your uh your podcast. This is an English accent, just so we're all clear on that.

SPEAKER_07 59:14

Yeah, exactly. Yeah, we I finally got somebody from across the pond, so uh I'm really excited to have you. Um, you know, so I mean I only got a few questions for you. I won't take up too much of your time, but from somebody that doesn't understand, like, again, the work you did with Cosmic, and you put that all together, looking at a potential track layout and figuring out how long the ride was going to be, where the launch was. First off, where does that where did that interest come from? And how do you go from being interested in this to figuring all this stuff out?

SPEAKER_00 59:51

That's a really good question because I've never been what I would class as uh roller coaster fanboy. Like I'm not one of these people, like if you showed me a picture of some roller coasters, then I might be able to say, oh, that's a that's a loop or that's an illman, but that's about it. I couldn't like that's not really my background. I'm just a bit of a geek, and I like really I'm kind of looking at this stuff more like a murder mystery. Like there's a crime, and I'm trying to solve this crime by finding out what's what's what's happened. So to me, I try and go through logical steps. I do have um, you know, I'm a sound engineer by trade, so I do have like a technical background and sort of I can see stuff in terms of like the engineer and sort of understand how things could work and couldn't work, but it's not like I'm one of these people that's solely focused on like coasters or whatever. I'm just more of a big picture kind of person that can look at the whole thing and go, right, what does that need to be, or what could that be, and just try and apply that with a bit of logic, if that makes sense.

SPEAKER_07 1:01:07

Absolutely. No, that's that's great. So, like I wanna you've already done a deep dive on Twitter or X, whatever you want to call it these days, on on the the month the Monstropolis door coaster, and you got the track layout, it feels like you got the capacity down, it feels like you have all these answer questions. I'm so intrigued, and you did that by just looking at the model, right? The model that was at the D23.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:37

Yeah, well, I guess we look for like commonalities, okay? So it's extraordinary that we have a model. Uh we have a model that's got um a layout in terms of building layout, etc. etc., and a track layout. Um, but then what we did start getting is little bits coming through, permits there was one a while back that dropped uh and then quickly disappeared where it literally had the footprint of the ground, and then if it was just a square or a straightforward rectangle, it it might not be that easy to figure it all out, but it's an unusual shape, and then basically what I do is kind of like reverse engineer pictures of the model. I had a good friend, John, at one of my English powers, he um when he was at that D23 where the model dropped, I was like, Oh, please just send me whatever pictures you can. He sent me a whole bunch of pictures, different angles, and then it's just a case of like there's a way you can kind of reverse engineer a 3D picture and convert it into a 2D image. So what I would probably end up doing is basically drawing out or tracking the the track layout in 3D from this 3D picture with the outline of the of the building, and and then when I had that known shape of what the footprint of the whole thing would be like, I would transpose that 3D image and convert it into a flat 2D image if that makes sense. It's it's pretty geeky, it's well super geeky. Um, and then when you have that, then you can go, well, okay, like can it do that? Can't it do that, etc. etc. And then or then when they start building it, you get more information, and then I'm like constantly cross-referencing what I think it should do, and then what it's actually doing. Like the last flyover that Bio did where I did an adjustment, like initially it looked like there was a really long load and unload, and now it looks like there's a fork where unload people will unload on one side and then it will go through. And there's just other pieces of information, like we know roughly how long a right of close train's gonna be. It's not gonna be 50 metres long, so we know the building is like I don't know, 50 or 60 metres wide. Sorry, I'll convert that to freedom units, it's like 160, 170 feet, you know. Like it's not gonna be that long, so we can start figuring out what the different parts are going from there. Don't don't just do this on my own. Like myself, Alicia Stella and Scott Walker, we have this group chat where we bounce off ideas off each other, um, and it's quite fun. I won't lie to you, it's quite fun trying to figure this stuff out. Um, we had a few different ideas about how the maintenance would work, and now I'm looking at this these pictures and thinking, okay, right, maintenance is going to be on one level, and the track will lift up and you'll be hoisted above that maintenance level into a different level. So there's all different ideas, and I think the important thing is you don't have to be right. A lot of these coaster enthusiasts they have to be absolutely right, and they're not open to being wrong. Whereas the three of us, we don't really know, we're kind of guessing. A lot of it's educated guess, a lot of it comes down from experience. We've been doing it for a while, like a lot of years now. But um, if we take the fast and furious roller coaster layout, I was fairly confident with that. And now today I've looked at new pictures, and now I'm not too sure at all. And it might be something completely different, and it but that kind of makes it more interesting because if if you get a layout, if you someone leaks a layout from the start and then nothing changes, it's boring. I'd quickly lose interest on a lot of stuff because it's like, okay, right, there's only a few things it could be. I'm not I like what's the an incant type thing, it's just a box. Like, I'm like, I'm not gonna spend time on that. It's it's gonna be a dark ride, it's gonna be an omni mover or something similar, or a Peter Pan's flight type thing, whatever it's gonna be. I'm not interested in that. I'd rather solve a mystery than have all the answers right in front of me. Does that make sense?

SPEAKER_07 1:05:59

It does. I mean and at least with this roller coaster, maybe this kind of hurts the mystery part for you a little bit, you know, is that the fact that you did have a model and that they're building this clear as day now, right? It's not being enclosed and then they're adding the the track like they did with Guardians, which would probably even require more um, you know, I guess more investigation or or or more knowledge how this works.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:29

Guardians was a love-hate thing because like rewind was I think I was working on it for about three years, two or three years, all through them times. I we got like one photo, and that admittedly, that photo, the first photo we saw of inside, was a like a wealth of information, but at the same time, it's like well, that's only half. I know that that's only half or less than half, maybe even 25% of what's going on in that massive building, and then we got a leak, a bit of a leak where we got a bit of a layout, and then there was only certain things it could be, and then it ended up. I think my by the time I'd made it, my guesstimate was about 85-90% correct. The only thing that I know I definitely got wrong is when you go up the first hill in this in the station building, and you know, the actual ride we loop round flat, and then we got the the screen, and we face backwards, and then we get the launch. I just assumed that that would be a more like a roller coaster type element where it would be a like a dive, like a loop dive into the launch. It's just things like that, it doesn't really matter, it's pretty much there, but everything else, and I was very fortunate enough to ride that ride the first day of non-press people riding it, and it was really weird because I'd spent three years building this thing in like 3D, you know, use like a roller coaster type software to to build it to scale, exactly to scale like to the meter, exact. And the first time I rode it, it felt so familiar familiar, like I'd it felt like exactly how I'd imagined it. Yeah, there was a few extra like forces that were new and different, and the screens and the images, there was still like sort of about 10% that I didn't know, but it felt super familiar by the time I'd worked on that. But that was that was probably the most enjoyable and the most like not upsetting, but stressful um recreations. I'd say probably my my most favourite one that I did, um, where I started with something, I didn't start with nothing, but I someone had leaked the layout for um I only called it Starfall, Stardust Racers. So I had the flat 2D image of the whole entire thing, and then there was obviously the artwork where there was it was a 3D kind of you saw it, but it was all sort of a bit vague and mis mysterious, and I remember figuring out how it would come out of the station and loop round and go underneath itself, and it was just like the most exciting thing ever to figure that out, and like that was probably my most enjoyable like one to solve. Um I am quite enjoying a little bit of monsters, but it is getting to the point where I'm a bit I'm gonna get bored soon because it's all gonna be built sooner, and then we'll just it's gonna be nothing left to figure out.

SPEAKER_07 1:09:33

My next question to you is you know, if you think about a Disney roller coaster or Universal Roller Coaster, it's not just a roller coaster. There's there's scenes, there's sets, there's animatronics. What do you kind of see in the Mostropolis door coaster? Is there gonna you think there's gonna be multiple scenes, or do you think it's just gonna be they're not gonna, you know, six flags you here where it just whips you around the ride and that's it. There's good they they would have to slow you down, run you at a couple spots, you think, just to show you things?

SPEAKER_00 1:10:06

Yeah, well, it's got to be that for a couple of reasons. Like the first one, just in terms of pacing, in terms of um, there needs to be a few spaces where it stops and slows down because you have what these are these things called block sections. So you so the more block sections you have, the more trains you can run in the ride, right? So there's gonna be places where it's gotta be stop, start, stop, start, to a point, right? So, for example, I'll use rewind as the example. You you turn out of the station and then you go up to that hill and you get stopped on that hill by uh Terry Cruz on the TV screen, don't you? And then you go through like that transitional portal, and then you do actually then get another, um, we talked about it earlier, like another show scene, the screen, and it you know, you you wait and then you get launched. I think we're probably gonna see something like that because there was much debate about um where the maintenance bay and where everything would go. So, what we think currently, current work in theory, is that maintenance bay would be basically on the ground floor or near to the ground floor, right? Like, so essentially, um, if you're sitting in the station, if it wanted to put a train in a in a maintenance bay, it might lift up like I don't know, 10 feet and then drive forward and disappear into maintenance bay. Or if we're actually going into the ride, it might go up like 25 feet and then you go off into the ride. So, what we think is gonna happen is like you get raised up, you do a left turn, there's possibly some kind of like like I said, some kind of scene, maybe it's just TVs or something like that, who knows? And then possibly just before the ride, I don't know if it's gonna launch. Like there was talk about the initially. Do you remember there was talk about them launching? Right. Oh, it would be like a launch or something like that. I don't think it's a lot of things.

SPEAKER_07 1:12:06

Like from the scene, like from the scene in the movie where it drops you down.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:11

I don't quite know what they mean by a launch, but I don't think I wouldn't expect like backwards launch like rewind. I would expect maybe you've crawled you've crawled left, you've turned into this first little bit where there's maybe some sort of show scene, and then all of a sudden it might scurry you along into like a kind of mini boost kind of launch, and then you take a sharp left turn into the main building. Like you're gonna have to remind me of this film because it's been a while since I watched it. But is it like a main hall with loads of doors hanging? And is that am I right? Yep. That thinking. So I think possibly something like that, like a like a mini launch, and then a sharp left turn, and then you drop down and you start going through these different sections. And if you look at the layout that I've drawn, um there are sections where it's quite straight. So that would imply that it's some sort of block section, brake section, which means that the more of them there are in the ride, the more times that they can send a train into that ride. So, you know, you might be as a person experienced of the ride from turning left into that main hall, that whole area might be um a minute, a minute and 20 seconds. But reality of it is every 20 seconds or so, you might be stopping into some sort of brake brake section, which means that Disney can then put a train in, and then 40 seconds later put another train in, and then another 40 seconds later, put another train in. So it's constantly feeding um trains into the ride system. So, in terms of scenes, I think your main big one is going to be the big haul, and you're gonna be experiencing that the same way that when you get into a rewind and you experience that vast amount of space, and then you see it, you know, you see like the video of the is it like a spaceship flying by, or I can't remember exactly what it is. It's been a while. Um, and then you get these little little highlight bits and there and like here and there, and I'm thinking maybe a bit like rewind that we get these kind of static props, maybe in places, a bit like Velocicost has the static dinosaurs that you're scooting by so quickly that it's you don't get time to it's not a show scene in the sense of like oh you stop and listen to an animatronic talk to you, but you just get these little snapshot moments as you're flying through, kind of I guess like Aerosmith or now Muppets, you know, where you go fly through the scenes. Um, there is one section that we are the work in theory when you you loop round above the unload section, it's a bit towards the front of the ride. If you've anyone's seen the my overlay or any of the model pictures, there's a whole loop that goes around. We're thinking that that's a depth a separate scene altogether. So because it separates completely from the rest of the main hall. I know one point of speculation, or whether it's speculation or whether it's like um you know, people really wanting it, either way, it's probably a great idea. Is that is it like some kind of like frozen tundra scene or something like that? Right, so I wonder whether it's a snowman, yeah, whether it almost really like a kind of a nod to the yeti, I guess, where it maybe loops through and you get a completely different change of scene, and then you know, you get back into um the hall that you've just already passed through, but you're now coming from a different direction, and then that continues all the way through too. Um there's this weird little, I don't know what you'd call it, like a butt, the butt of the buildings that sticks out, right? And it just does a little, you know, it turns uh left into this little section, and then it turns left again, and then you're into the unload. Like we're thinking that's probably maybe like a final scene, you know. Just like um, I'm just trying to think of a ride that's got a final scene like that, where oh, I guess probably like gardens, you know. You gardens in the gardens, you turn and there's the hologram, isn't there? And it's just like it's a it's a place that that like that finishes the ride off, but then it's a kind of also a place they can hold you until they're ready for you to go to unload if there's a lot of trains backed up. Um but also thinking the my other thinking of that is is because they probably want to keep these these block sections quite short so that they can put multiple trains in this main gravity building, is that we will that kind of allows you to have a lot of what's the word interaction within the space, like you're coming in from one corner and you're seeing a train that's already done your section, of course, come back into the same hall from a different direction. That it's gonna be like quite chaotic and a back and forth where you've got trains kind of changing directions that they're traveling. Um, obviously they're safely spaced out, but it's gonna look like like that's these trains are closer, you know, or you're closer to these trains than what you think. That's my current feeling about about the situation. Obviously, we don't know for sure, but that's what I would do anyway. And based on what we've seen, that's what's likely. Um, I don't know if you asked me a question earlier about um length of ride and stuff like that. I what I tend to do is take my 2D um flat drawer and and put it back into Google Earth and get it into Scal, and then I measure it. Okay, so I measure the flat like um the non-stretched out version of the track layout, and then obviously we know like this elevation, so it's gonna go up, it's gonna go down. So generally, what I try to do is add about 20% to that. So say I you know I measure out uh a thousand meter um or you know, 3,000 foot of track, I'm gonna add like maybe 20% to that, so it ends up being like 3600 foot or something like that. Like, so you just allow a little bit of the elevation, depending on how big the the elements are. Obviously, a big, massive, like six flag style coaster, the the track's gonna end up a lot longer. But if I remember rightly, it's about the same as all the others. It's you know, it's longer than Tron. Most things are because Tron's so short. It's about sort of your big fundamental kind of length. So I don't know what have you any idea what ride time that is.

SPEAKER_07 1:18:38

I think Tron's like what a little bit over a minute, rock and roller coasters around the same time. I think sleeping is a little bit longer.

SPEAKER_00 1:18:48

Yeah, so that's the thing. So I'm thinking because it it's gonna have like sort of fast chaotic sections, but it's probably gonna have like some bits that are not necessarily slow, but you know the way, and it's a bit of a bit of a sore subject for a lot of people at the moment, you know where Space Mountain has a lot of stop start, stop, start, stop, start. I'm not saying it's gonna be as insane as that, but there could be a few moments where it would like come into a break section and slow down a little bit, and then you go into the next bit of gravity section, and then you might because by the looks of it, there's a couple of those like those sort of long straight sections that could well be like a pause, like a moment to catch a breath in terms of the pacing. So I wouldn't be surprised if it's if it's one minute 30, 1 minute 45. I wouldn't expect it to be more than two minutes just because it's although it's massive and it is a big show building, it's not it's not like um I can't think of an example, it's not like Cosmic Rewind, which is a ridiculously long ride, but even that's only a minute 45, minute 50. So, you know, we're sitting in that kind of ballpark. I do I do think a lot of people do have unrealistic expectations of how long rides actually are or how long rides should actually be. So you'll get someone. I think there was some comment that Braid and Mickey Views made last night about Space Mountain, and oh, if they rip it out and put a single thing, a single single track, it's only gonna be about 30 seconds, and it's like that that show building's massive, that's absolutely gigantic show building. You know, it's 300 foot across, like it would have to be a really, really, really small space and a really really really fast ride for a ride duration to be like 30 seconds to a minute, and which is probably why so many people are so mad at Tron, right? Because it's a gigantic, huge, gigantic ride and show building, but it's so short, and I think that's probably why people feel as short changed as they as they do. I don't know if you've got any thoughts on that.

SPEAKER_07 1:21:08

Yeah, I mean I think I think people anytime you know an attraction gets gets a refurb, there's everybody kind of reacts the same way. They get nervous that it's not going to be the same attraction, the same ride. Yeah, I mean, Tron gets its criticism for being short. I think you know, riding at night is way different than riding it during the day. Um, I obviously it doesn't change the duration, but I think if it changes the experience, at least. Um but yeah, I I don't really get the outrage either. I mean, it needs it. Um I know chiropractors will be upset if uh if they end up doing the work uh for it to make it more smooth, but you know, they're they're not getting grandma on air, they're not getting grandmom on Space Mountain anymore, that's for sure.

SPEAKER_00 1:21:56

Someone accused me of being old and grumpy because I said this ride hurts, and I'm like like the last time I rode it, I actually rode it with Alicia Stella, right? So I rode it. Uh and it's hilarious, but it wasn't hilarious at the time because it was so freaking I won't swear, it was so freaking painful, right? I literally had rectangular, deadly square rectangular bruises on my thighs from the last time I rode it. And I remember it was funny, but it was like every time we hit a brow brake run, I was like, ow, ow! Like it, I just kept smacking my thighs. And I'm sorry, but that's got nothing to do with being old or grumpy or anything like that. Right. That is the ride, that is the ride experience, that is the restraint, and it's a 50-year-old ride. You know, at the end of the day, and I also feel like there's a lot of anxiety that people think that that they're gonna put a frill ride, and what I mean by a thrill ride is I mean I literally mean like a universal velocicoaster thrill ride in as replacement. It's like they've got a thrill ride next door that's not for everyone, that not everyone every single person can get on. They're not gonna then go build another thrill ride next door, you know. They do know what they're doing, and in terms of like what they're building, not just with this, but with um the door coaster, which we're talking about, is a Disney family thrill thrill, quote unquote, a Disney family thrill ride is very different from a universal or a Six Flags thrill ride, you know. Um, to me, I've got a 10-year-old nephew who's just got into like loving roller coasters and loving theme parks, and it's the kind of thing that I would take him on and know that for him it would be thrilling. It might not be thrilling for me to go and door coaster, it might be just fun, it might be just a fun, cute ride for me. I'd love Slinky Dog. I've got nothing against Slinky Dog, I think that gets a bad rep. People complain, oh, it's too lame, it's too this, it's too that. And I'm just like, it's just a fun family ride that you can take a child in that kind of you know, eight to twelve bracket on that they'll enjoy. It might not be the ultimate frill ride, but it's certainly a gateway stepping stone into the bigger stuff, you know?

SPEAKER_07 1:24:23

100%. I think the people criticize Toy Story Land because it's just kind of laid out in a weird way. It's not it's not laid out like the other lands, you know. It's every you know, there was there wasn't any shade in the beginning. Um they don't like that, I guess that Slinky doesn't blend in with the you know, the rest of like Seven Doors Mind Train is a mountain and it's all just kind of blends in together. Um, so I mean there's just criticism with the whole land, which I think gives Sleaky Dog a bad rap. But in terms of a family ride, it's it's always been one of our family favorites. Like you said, it's that great intro coaster that's fun. You get on it and you're gonna have a good time.

SPEAKER_00 1:25:06

Yeah, and it's nice. It's an and I'd say it's the kind I mean it is a Mac ride, you know, it's a Mac ride, but it's the kind of ride that sits alongside the super like thrilling ones at um Europa Park. And I will not stop going on about Europa Park. If you haven't been to Europa Park, you need to go to Europa Park. Whoever's listening to this, it's like you get something for everyone, and it just fills just fills the gaps. Where this door coaster sits is gonna be interesting. I think probably you know, depending on like what kind of I think probably 10-year-olds could be like its primary demographic, you know, plus or minus two or three years either way. I don't know what your thoughts are, but it's gotta be it's gotta be something that a lot of people can get on. It's gotta be something, it's obviously not gonna have any inversions, it's gonna be you know, inverted, that's gonna be very different. That's something that over here in Europe, like UK, I remember one of my first roller coasters that I went on was this um vampire. I think it's like a what is it? Like an arrow ride, like one of these suspended, you can't even call it inverted, it was like a suspended, you know, like roller coaster. There's not really anything in a Disney park like that that I can think of. Can you think of anything like that? It's gonna be brand new for them.

SPEAKER_07 1:26:35

It's gonna be totally new for a Disney theme park.

SPEAKER_00 1:26:38

So, and I think that's where you start adjusting the to me. The closest that I can think of, and I've said this a few times, the closest we that it comes to is at Europa Park is Arthur, the self-powered um kind of coaster ride. It's not really a roller coaster in the sense it's powered, it's more like a fast dark dark ride with a few little moments of feeling like a roller coaster, but it's somewhere in between, right? So it's a little bit of everything. I think that's kind of where we're gonna sit with that. It's gonna be more than a dark ride, less than a roller coaster, somewhere in between, and it's probably just gonna be super fun, super enjoyable.

SPEAKER_07 1:27:20

Yeah, I can't wait. And and and my next question is probably an important one. I mean, Hollywood Studios gets a bad rap, and one of the big things is there's not enough to do. And to me, they're they're adding this thing on a parking lot, right? It's just dead space, it's totally expanding the footprint of the park. And in terms of capacity gains, like compared to like, I don't know if you have the numbers off your head off the top of your head, but like rock and roller coaster Slicky Dog, what is like the um the throughput where they can you know load guests per hour at those attractions? And what what do you expect at the door coaster? And if you don't have that information, that's fine, but I feel like you did kind of estimate that a few times on Twitter.

SPEAKER_00 1:28:04

I have, and I've got some I won't tell you where my sources are, but I'm I've got reliable sources. But um there is ideally like I think this one singular ride isn't gonna push the needle too much for um Hollywood studios. It will help. Every little helps, you know. It's not it's not gonna be um nothing, it's not for nothing, but realistically, these type of rides, they they want to get at least 1,500 people per hour. At least this, you know, and that you know it's often cited things like Haunted Mansion can do 2,000. Well, that one's pretty easy to do because that's like um you know, that's one carriage of two pi of two people every two or three seconds, so it's very easy, like you know, to to get a lot of people in. And and just to explain to anyone that doesn't understand what I'm talking about, what we're talking about here is it's not the length of the ride. People think it's the length of the ride, people think it's the um, you know, how big's the how like how long how big's the ride? Oh if it if the if the if the ride's a mile long, that means you can get more people than a on a ride that's a quarter of a mile long. Well actually, there is a good chance that that that a ride that's a quarter of a mile long that's that's sending 20 people every 20 seconds or something like that might do much better than a long ride that only sends like 10 people every minute and a half, like it all absolutely depends on how quick and how many people every time you send them, it adds up that way, right? So, so I'm just trying to find some numbers for you while I'm talking. I would look at maybe you know 1600 an hour. Off the top of my head, I believe rock and roller coaster is supposed to do about 1700, it might be more, might be less. Um just give me a sec.

SPEAKER_07 1:30:20

Yeah, but in the same neighborhood. I mean it's definitely gonna help.

SPEAKER_00 1:30:24

Yeah, 100%. So um I can't find it. Can't find my sources. What am I without any sources of useless? Um, yeah, but for me, what this what's more important about this addition is the one, yes, it's a net addition to the park, so it's brand new. When I when I talk about net addition, what I'm talking about is, and this is what what's difficult for a lot of people to understand, because when you get into conversation about Piston Peak and about um villains land and about um replacing uh Rivers America, etc. Okay, so when Piston Peak opens, that's basically one and a half rides, so it's a flat, you know, a flat type ride and a supposedly e-ticket. So that might only give you about 2,000 people an hour. But what they're talking about is that once the whole whole area is reopened, that it's going to increase the total capacity of the park to between five and eight thousand people. So can you see the math ain't math in there, is it? Because if you're opening a land and you can only accept about 2,000 people per hour, but actually by opening that land, you've increased your park capacity by five to seven thousand, where are all those people gonna go? Like, and there's only so many people that can wait in a queue. So you have to be really mindful of like actually what does this ride like replacing a ride is the is the is the one that Disney like to do a lot. And I think the example I would give you, Matt, is probably if you think back to 2019, um, Animal Kingdom, you had primeval well that was two roller coasters, so it doubled up on capacity. You had two or three flat rides in Dino Land, right? You had Dinosaur running. So now what they're saying is okay, right, yeah, we're gonna replace uh Dinosaur with Indiana Giants. Well that's fine, but that's a like for like replacement. Okay, right, we're gonna put um an Encanto ride. So, really, all they're all that they're doing at the moment with their expansion, for want of a better term, in Animal Kingdom, is restoring the park's capacity to something like it used to be back in 2019 before Primeval World was forced to shut down. Yeah, so we just have to bear that in mind, and like when we look at um going back to talking about villains land, is that one thing I comment commented on, and a few other people said is when we started getting the quote apparently from Daddy Josh, oh, bigger and bolder, I think bigger and bolder, or whatever were to use. Turbocharge, turbocharge, etc. etc. I know you know, and I've written about it on Substack, there's there's acres and acres of land back there by by closing Rivers of America, they created so much more expansion space within this park, right? But there's already talk of them only opening two rides, so it might be one e-ticket and one D ticket, which is great. But as I said to you, if the ballpark is maybe 1,500 to 1700 for an E-ticket, maybe 1200 to 1500 for a D ticket again, and they're saying like maybe they even want to throw an extra 10,000 people in the park once they open both parts of this expansion. So you've got 10,000 people in the park, additional to what you would have had on average, but you've only actually increased the capacity of the park by a couple of thousand, or maybe three thousand at the most. You see where where the issues is we start to run into issues. So this is why people like myself and other people, I'm not the only one saying this, there's plenty of people that'll tell you this is that Disney need to add capacity to their parks, and you cannot spend your whole whole existence just refresh refreshing and renewing um an existing ride. Yeah, it's great for certain things and it works great, and it'll take a ride because you know you might have an old ride. Uh let's say it take carrot cell progress, right? I can't remember off the top of my head what the capacity for that is, but it's probably a a decent amount of people, but it's no good if no one's going on it. So say it's a it's 2,000 people an hour, just pluck a number out there. A ride is great if it's theoretically it's 2,000 people an hour, but if 200 people an hour are riding it, and that's all that's ever gonna ride it because it's just not interesting, it's boring, or it's not relevant to their experience, what they want to experience that day, it doesn't matter. So then that's when Disney comes along and go, okay, right, let's refresh this ride, let's update it. And carousel progress, they're they're literally doing that right now, okay? So that might bump it back up to maybe not opening day numbers, but it'll certainly take it from maybe you know 200 to a thousand people an hour if its theoretical capacity is a thousand an hour, which is great, but you know the one thing that excites people and gets people through the door, and you know, you know yourself from booking your trips. We've had quite a few dark years since um pandemic, where we had a few years where basically Disney weren't even talking about opening new rides, let alone physically open them or even building them. So, what's going to get you and your family to come back and book next year? It's that promise of something new and exciting and different, and that's probably the biggest criticism that certainly on uh on my own podcast, e-ticket report, that we give give give to Disney. We know that they can build great things, but it's almost like an attitude of you can do better, guys. It's not you can build better rides and you don't, it's you can build outstanding rides and you choose not to, you choose to go. What's the absolute bare minimum that we can do in this period of time that will still keep our captive audience coming back? Whereas, you know, people will criticize Universal, oh, there's too many adult rides, there's not enough kids' rides, there's not enough for small children. All of this is true, and there's certainly a conversation you can have about the things that Universal could could do better, but at the end of the day, what they're doing really well is making sure that there is something quite exciting and quite different. I mean, that they just opened I'm not they just opened that you know, a year ago, they opened a brand new theme park with 15 rides and attractions in it. So that's gonna get a lot of people interested in going to going to a universal park. Realistically, everything that we're talking about now for Disney, how long we're talking? What's the what's the minimum amount of time? I don't even think.

SPEAKER_07 1:37:42

Probably 2031, 2032 is when villains will be open, I guess, right? I mean nobody knows exactly, but I think that's what we're all estimated.

SPEAKER_00 1:37:50

No, just but just uh eyeball eyeballs on the construction from my experience of seeing a lot of this stuff and just knowing that a Disney timeline is a lot slower than a Universal timeline. Is I knew even before Universal closed um Hollywood Rip Ride Rocket that we were looking at probably two years before opening date for um Fast and Furious Coaster. Right, two years, which is not a short amount of time, but to still have the ride running and have a brand new ride, sorry, have the old ride demolished, have a brand new ride built, tested, themed, all the rest of it in two years is outstanding. And then we're looking at you know, we're looking at what the I can't even work out what the the closest project to being ready, maybe dinosaur, maybe in canto, if we're lucky. Certainly not Toy, it's not that sorry, not Toy Stories, certainly not Carsland. That's a long, long way off from being open. So, and I I I suspect, don't you can don't quote me on this. I suspect probably what we'll see with Monstropolis is if they'll open the front half, we'll get that newly themed um Glob Theatre, the whatever it's housen's um restaurant, we'll probably get that open sooner than that. Well, and we'll you know walk into the land and go, oh, this is really cool, this is exciting, and then you'll get to the back of the land and you'll you'll have a work wall saying new door coaster opening in summer 12 months' time.

SPEAKER_06 1:39:35

Faced opening, sure.

SPEAKER_00 1:39:37

You know what I'm saying? I'm saying we probably will get half the land reopened by next summer, but we ain't getting this door coaster open for at least another two years, no way.

SPEAKER_07 1:39:48

You know, really and that's so so probably late 2028, you think.

SPEAKER_00 1:39:54

Just judging by what I'm seeing on construction, I can't see it being ready soon sooner than that. You know, they have got a lot of track to put in, they've got a lot of supports, track supports to put in, and then they've got to put and then they've got to build the building outside of it and feed it and commission it, you know, and test it. And like we know a little bit more about um how Universal commissions and tests their rides, and since the Hagrid's situation, shall we call it, disaster, PR disaster, uh that it was a victim of its own success, it was so popular and it wasn't ready that it just caused a big issue for Universal. Is now they go, we're not gonna test this for less than I don't know, six months plus. You think how long? Like I went to um I was fortunate enough had a friend that um worked for Universal, they don't anymore, so I can talk about it. But um, we drove into the parking lot at Epic Universe a year before the park opened, and I was as close as you could get without doing anything trespass-wise. Um see Starfall um already testing, and that park didn't open for another year after that time that I was watching this ride test. Like that's a long time to test a ride, and even then it still probably wasn't where they wanted it to be, and it took them a long time of actual operational, you can't call it testing, but operational learning to start to get that ride or ride, so I should say, dialed in. So I would be surprised if they're not testing this for at least six months, and depending on how many scenes, how many animatronics, what what the ride's got to trigger as it goes around throughout the course, audio, they've got a lot of work to do. So I can't see in its current state it not being ready sooner than two years' time from from where we're at now, so summer 2028. And that's probably them doing what I call a Disney rush. You know, a Disney rush isn't that's not necessarily a universal rush, but for them that's quick.

SPEAKER_07 1:42:19

It is, yeah. No, I I think summer 2028 sounds right for that. So yeah, you're you're probably right. Well, Tommy, this this was incredible. Uh, I feel bet I didn't even get you for a whole episode. I only wanted you for a few minutes, and you uh giving me so much great content, and you're the best, man. I really enjoy following you along. And please subscribe to you know Tommy Substack, follow him on X. Where else can people find you? I know you you said um the e-ticket, is that still going?

SPEAKER_00 1:42:49

Like it's not ended, so uh it's not like I'm just trying to. We haven't done a Beatles, we've not all fallen out, we're all friends, we still talk regular, it's just a timing issue. Chris is very busy, he's got two small kids, Ryan's very busy. Um, I'm less busy lately, but that doesn't mean that we can make it work, and obviously, I'm five hours ahead of the other guys, so that makes it pretty pretty tricky to record. It's not dead. We are me and Ryan are trying to also do a secondary, like a sister show, not a replacement, not uh um I don't know what you'd call it, not a reawakening, but just a sister show where we do a little bit more talking about like more the future expansion, the stuff that Chris doesn't like us talking about what stops us from talking about after a few minutes, you know what I'm talking about. Me and him, me and Ryan will start nattering about this, that, and the other, and Chris will be like, come on guys, let's get back on track. Um, yeah, my Substack is I think it's substack.com Tommy themed. I think that's what it is. I can't remember.

SPEAKER_07 1:43:59

I'll find it, I'll throw it in the notes somewhere until Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:44:02

You can follow me on Instagram, but really that's more music related stuff. I don't really I'll post the odd theme park video if I've been to visit somewhere, but it's more music, live music videos and stuff like that. So it's probably unless you like that sort of thing, it's probably not not relevant. So yeah, um, and I've refused to call it X. We're not gonna call it X, Matt. We're gonna call it Twitter.

SPEAKER_07 1:44:27

I'm with you. I'm calling it it will be called Twitter again one day, too. That's a little prediction. I don't I don't have a before and after date, but one one year.

SPEAKER_00 1:44:35

You notice they've um got excited yesterday. They're like Twitter now allows you to send more than one photo at a time again, which I'm sure we used to be able to do. That got taken away. That was that was the the first sign that things were going downhill, where now you can only send one photo at a time. And if you're trying to geek out with your with your friends and go look at this photo and then compare it to this photo, and you you can't, it's it's pretty tricky. It's pretty tricky, Matt. What can you do, eh?

SPEAKER_07 1:45:05

Oh I love it. Well, again, Tommy, thanks again so much.

SPEAKER_00 1:45:09

And my pleasure.

SPEAKER_07 1:45:11

Hopefully, we can do this again one day, because I really enjoy talking to you. And I could pick your brain on Europa. Am I saying that right?

SPEAKER_00 1:45:19

Europa, yeah. Or Europa. I don't know. They said they who knows. I don't know. I'm not German is not my German is not my my chosen language. Dutch, Swedish, yes, but German, no. So Europa, E Europa, I don't know. Who knows? All right, hopefully we'll go visit. We'll go visit and ask ask them how does how do you say your park name? Yeah, that sounds like a plan. So yeah, we could have a whole whole show about that that topic we really could.

SPEAKER_07 1:45:45

Absolutely, that'd be great. All right, let's connect soon. Thanks again. Also talking to you.

SPEAKER_00 1:45:50

Yeah, take care, mate. See you later.

SPEAKER_05 1:45:52

Thanks, thanks, thank you, mate.

SPEAKER_07 1:45:57

All right, everyone. I have a very special guest, uh, a friend that I've had the chance and the privilege to meet back. We uh we crossed paths uh during Muppet Vision 3D just a few weeks before it was closing. I have Drew Smith, known as Drew the Disney dude, in the episode right now. Drew, say hi to everybody.

SPEAKER_01 1:46:20

What's up, world? We've got some fun questions here, so I'm ready to answer them.

SPEAKER_07 1:46:25

Yeah, I wanted to bring Drew on for the uh this this this season finale. I thought that'd be a pretty cool thing. And uh I'm super pumped. Uh I want to ask them. I know we've talked a lot about D23 so far, but I want I want to ask Drew two questions uh for D23. Um, I guess, you know, first, what's you know, they announced so many things a couple years ago. What what do you think the vibe's gonna be? Like, do you think we're gonna get a lot of new announcements, or do you think like most people think that we're just gonna get more details? How do you kind of fall into that? Where do you start?

SPEAKER_01 1:47:01

Yeah, so we're gonna get some fun surprises. Yeah, yeah, we're gonna get some fun surprises for sure. Things that I don't even know about yet are coming, but this will definitely be a shift from in 2024, like you said, there was so much new stuff, right? We had 14 new rides announced in a couple of hours. That was unlike anything we've ever seen from the Walt Disney Company. Now's the time to pull back the curtain on what is actually coming to these areas. So, you know, you have Pandora, Coco, Avengers Campus, Monstropolis, Tropical Americas, Cars, and Villains. All these projects are deep into development at this point, especially out here at Walt Disney World. Everything is moving at a very quick pace. So now's the time to really say, well, yes, Tropical Americas opens, you know, late 2027. You know that in Canto and Indiana Jones are gonna be here, but this is actually like this concept art for the scenes, the names of the rides. You know, you move over to Monstropolis, learning more about Harry House and that theater show for Piston Peak, really diving into the final like layout for Piston Peak is what I'm expecting here, and how it's gonna kind of fit in Frontierland, kind of just building on that fun map. Like the fun map, I believe, is pretty close to the final product. That's why I don't think we've heard anything. I think it's just gonna be like, hey, this is the exact vision, and also the big one. Obviously, this is like the crown jewel is Villains Land. Um, the final planes for Villains Land that we don't know about yet. Those two major attractions, what are the storylines? What is actually happening? So it's gonna be a lot of the final stuff and also some fun surprises. I think reinvestment in the classics. You know, WW Magic just talked about that Space Mountain update, which my understanding is that is happening. I've been talking about that for a while now. So Disney's kind of been teasing the path that they've liked, and it's a lot of yeah, you have those major expansions, but also a lot of focus onto these uh reinvestments into what we already have, and Space Mountain is definitely a part of that plan.

SPEAKER_07 1:48:56

Yeah, they've been quietly like just pecking away at Tomorrowland and Magic Kingdom. It's very exciting. It's kind of what they need to do out west, to be honest with you. Yeah, um, that Tomorrowland needs help, and we know that. Um, okay, cool. I agree. I think it's gonna be way more details than new stuff, but I I do think they're hopeful they're gonna give us some new content. What would like make you get up off your chair and say, no, they're not doing that? No way. Is there any announcement that would just be totally out of the blue and would not just get your reaction to be super pumped about it, but but everybody else?

SPEAKER_01 1:49:39

Yeah, so I'll start off with the one that would make me excited. I don't know if it would make the entire room excited because it would be international, but this is the one that's like the uh the worst kept secret is that second theme park coming to Shanghai Disney Resort. I would just love to know what the theme is. Like, we know that the Second park is coming at this point, though Disney hasn't announced it. I want to know what how do you make a second theme park fit into the overall vibe of Shanghai? Could that be something that includes Duffy and Friends, like a Duffy and Friends Dark Ride or a land or something there? I would love to have that park announced in front of the biggest Disney fans. Again, I know the international parks don't get as much love, but personally, I'm just a big fan of when we get any investment around the world, even if I haven't been to Shanghai yet. On the domestic side, a lot of my thought process, and I'll be talking about this a lot more in a D23 predictions video on YouTube, but people are like, how could Disney respond at Tapic Universe? And I think we've already seen that response with the four new lands coming to Walt Disney World the next few years. But my ideal scenario is we get the spaceman announcement, which again, I believe that is happening. I'm not even calling it a rumor in my eyes. Figment, I don't want to say that Figment is happening because I don't have any inside info there, but Figment is on the Disney Experience's pin. Like there is an actual Honda Center merchandise collection this year for the first time. And Figment is front and center on the pin, and that definitely stands out to me. Also, if we're talking about an unofficial response epic universe, maybe a brand new shock announcement attraction, like one big brand new ride that isn't on anyone's radar whatsoever. So a few possibilities there. And then I'm thinking something with Walt Disney's Disneyland Park, the original OG, a shock announcement there. I would be so pleasantly surprised and so happy because you have so much love and investment going into California Adventure, but we haven't seen much of Disneyland since Toontown got updated. And by the time you know this thing would open, if I'm right, that'd be 2028 or so. So that'd be like five, six years from a new opening at Disneyland, which is a while for Waltz Park. But yeah, I just think between maybe a couple of shock announcements, one for each resort, Disneyland, Disney World, and that's Shanghai Park, I would be pleasantly surprised. But I think the thing that's gonna get people standing on their feet are the final plates for Villains Land because they are wickedly cool.

SPEAKER_07 1:52:00

Man, I can't wait to see that. I I'm hoping they have some miniatures there. I mean, I would my gut feeling says though there's gonna be at least two there. So is it gonna be you know Marstopolis? Is it gonna be Piston Peak? Are they gonna do one out west, you know, um, and finally reveal what they're doing with you know what uh Avatar or are they gonna bring Zotopian? Like, what are they doing? So I can't wait. Yeah, it's gonna be great. We'll we're definitely gonna get some details, we'll get some answers.

SPEAKER_01 1:52:29

Yeah, no, it's uh I've had a lot of people say, like, I really hope we get some good stuff, you know, because like we had the disappointment of Destination D23, right? Last year, where there wasn't a parks showcase and the parks announcements, like we got some awesome stuff with Chaosel of Progress and Centerella Castle being repainted. Like, there were some fun announcements, but people really go to these D23 events to be wowed. And just because I'm saying we're getting a lot of concrete details for what we already know about, that is some very exciting stuff. As far as I know, everything that's coming, like it's all very positive. Everything is, I believe, just with the strong workforce out here, with how I don't think a lot of people realize how much or how many imagineers actually live on site out here now in Florida, working on Florida's parks. Like, there's always conversation about well, Imagineering is based out of you know, California, but since Josh DeMaro invited Bruce Vaughn back to lead Imagineering and he's come back as president and chief creative officer, there's been a lot of focus on Walt Disney World, you know, from the workforce to where, like we've seen with Star Wars Galactic Star Cruiser, that building being transformed into those new offices. The office is literally directly next to Magic Kingdom's transformation. They rip down all those trees and put in parking lots and offices. So there's a lot of love going into Walt Disney World, and I just don't feel like it's getting the attention it deserves. So we're gonna learn a lot more about what's actually happening, more investments into what we already know and love. So yeah, I'm really, really excited. And like you said, Matt, just hopefully on the show floor, you know, seeing those actual models of like how these things are actually gonna look because concept art is one thing, but once you actually get a final model designed and locked in, all you have to do is translate that to the real world. There's no more wondering or speculation. That's like that's what we're getting, that's what's coming. You're looking at this, and that's the final plan. So we are very close to finally seeing the future revealed, and I am very, very excited. Love it.

SPEAKER_07 1:54:18

Well, I'm I'm telling you, Drew, honestly, I love your work. I love when you have videos. They're to me, they're stop what I'm doing, watch it. Especially, I mean, I love like just binge watching something on YouTube at 10 o'clock at night, and and I'm like, all right, Drew's got a video, let's go. You're always bringing it. Really appreciate what you do with the Disney community. I love that you're you got a lot of journalistic integrity, and you are trying to bring just truth to the um to the equation. So I just want to say I really appreciate you and uh thank you so much for jumping on. Where can people find you? I mean, they know, but yeah, but everybody else knows.

SPEAKER_01 1:54:56

No, that's uh that's very kind of you to say because I I truly do put so much time and thought behind the scenes that no one ever sees into making these things logical, right? Like if I'm gonna go on YouTube or write an article on my Substack, which is still newer for me, is actually writing and putting my thoughts in you know words, but there's a lot of thought into logic and reasoning. And yeah, I'm on every single major social platform and uh Substack, true the DisneyDude.substack.com. And like I said, I don't know when this episode is airing exactly, but at some point before D23, I'm gonna have a very thoughtful D23 predictions video, like a very realistic look at what's to come. And I'm also doing a separate video just on Encanto in the tropical Americas, just because my excitement for that project is sky high, and I don't think it's getting the love that it deserves. So you guys can find me anywhere, but yeah, there's a lot that we'll be talking about very soon.

SPEAKER_07 1:55:46

Let's go. Can't wait to consume it all. Thanks, Drew, for jumping on. Really appreciate you, man.

SPEAKER_01 1:55:51

Absolutely. Thank you. Take care.

SPEAKER_07 1:55:55

All right, everyone. I I hope you enjoyed the guest panel. I I thought that was so fun to do. It was nightmare editing, but I'm glad I'm done it, and hopefully you enjoyed it. And yeah, this is a beefy episode 10. There's nothing wrong with that. I'm okay with having some heavy episodes. Alright. What's next here? So I did want to talk about something I did experience. I will not spend too much time on it, but I did go to Meowwolf uh in Grapevine, Texas. Uh, I had uh I had a trip there and um I decided to check it out. Um seen some advertisements for it, and it's kind of like this very immersive experience where you go into a story that's half baked or all baked, it's probably all baked. You try you have to try to figure out clues, but it's more like it's more like a maze of a maze with a lot of art and a lot of what's a lot of zaniness, right? Like it's really tough to explain, but it's it's it's super immersive. It puts you in this world and you're going from either room to room or scene to scene, and you're going through back doors, through refrigerators, through washers and dryers, and you're coming to these secret rooms, and there's computers throughout the house where you can get tips on what the story is, and this particular story a boy was missing, and something with water. I'm not gonna spoil it. I didn't really dive into the story, but I thought it was interesting. I would it be something that I would rush to do again, probably not. Maybe I would do it with my family. I definitely wouldn't do the same house or the same location over and over again solo. Would I check out the other locations? Sure, maybe. You know, I I mean maybe I would check it out. But I I'll say this that the reason why I think it's interesting and it's kind of connected to you know Disney and to this podcast is because of the level of immersion, because of the creativity and the art that these people developed. It's pretty cool. So if you're into that kind of vibe, if you're into a super immersed world, I would definitely check it out. Alright. So what's next? What's next for me? When am I gonna start recording more? Not when I'm gonna publish. I already told you guys I'm not sure when that's gonna happen. But I'm gonna start recording immediately after my first vacation, um, which is actually right now. So I am somewhere in in Bermuda. Took a cruise um from Cape Liberty, and I'm on a cruise with my wife um and a couple couples. It's our uh 20th anniversary uh coming up in a couple months on October 1st, if you remember. Also celebrate Walt Disney World's uh anniversary, right? No, but uh it's um it's it's pretty cool. So we're we're we playing this out a while back. We wanted to do something uh as couples, something relaxing. We like the fact that we don't have to get on a plane, um, and it's it's a sort enough cruise where we're not too you know, too far removed from our from our kids and all that kind of stuff, and it's a nice part of the year where there's not too much going on with activities. So, will I do a proper recording on this and a proper episode in season two? Would this be something probably not? I mean, it's not Disney, but it is it is travel, and it's something that could potentially come up in conversation on some of the things I experience, maybe some pros and cons of it. But then the meat the meat of one of my episodes, or maybe two in the coming season, is what I'm doing in the month of August. I am taking my family to Paris. We have never been at Europe as a family, but we are going. We're gonna visit Disneyland Paris. We have a basically five park tickets, five-day park tickets at Disneyland Paris. I don't expect we're gonna kind of grease it a little bit more than probably most people, where we'll spend some time and then we'll come back and hit the pool, and then go back, and then one day we have a tour uh to Versailles in the middle of a vacation. So it's not gonna be it's not gonna be your you know your normal trip or tour because I am doing not just Disneyland Paris, but I'm also doing Paris proper. You know, and I look forward to seeing those big eyeball moments for my daughters and my wife and myself looking at the Eiffel Tower for the first time and some of the other monuments that we're gonna see. So I am really excited about that. I definitely think there's some podcast content there. I'm looking forward to to Disneyland Paris and to Disney Adventure World and to try to do everything once if possible, see the nighttime shows. And you know, part of our stay is at a Disneyland Paris Hotel. We're staying at the Newport Bay Club, uh, and then we also have an off-site pretty close by in Valde Europe. Um, so looking forward to that. I thought that would be a good way to uh to to create some content as well for sure. Uh, and then in December, the plan is to return to Disney World, and it'll be the first time my kids have been there for a couple years. So there's a lot of things that they haven't done. Um, my kids, my daughters, and my wife, we're also planning not to tell them. We're planning not to tell them potentially up until the day of like we've talked about doing that. It's basically don't tell them until we grip them out of school. Now they're older now, you know, but they'll be 15 and 12 by the time December rolls around. But very excited. We have boardwalk. My parents are coming. My parents who are not big travel people absolutely don't love Disney World, they love boardwalk, they're in their upper 70s, so again, grateful for more family trips, grateful for um the ability to do this. So, anyway, that is coming, and again, I'm sure there's gonna be more content to to share about. So, real quick, just wanted to explain to everybody too how you can help help the show, right? How you can help me with this pursuit. I don't know what the pursuit is, I want it to grow. I want I want to see downloads just keep trickling in, even as this even as we go season to season and we go on hiatus. Follow me on Twitter, you know, follow both my personal account and the Dis Happens account. You know, follow, subscribe to the podcast, of course. Leave a rating and a written review. It's always good. You know, share and retweet the episodes. I'll still try to keep the the format alive, uh, this the brand alive, the Dis Happening's brand alive by um by posting content, even when I'm there to Disneyland Paris or whatever, I'll I'll try to provide some content. Uh so you know, feel free to interact. You know, tag me uh after I'm wrong or right about D23. You know, that would be fun. And then lastly, I have travel agent creds, guys. You can use me, and it will never cost you more money to book from me, and I can help you not. I can just be your guy that books a trip. And I promise you, if you do that, I'll make it worth your while. Um, gets to the end. I want to thank all the listeners. I wanna thank all the guests in season one, I wanna thank Sean for jumping off for two episodes. He's still a co-host, in my eyes. Um, you know, really glad that I pulled this off and I gave you more content, and I think that's about it. I will either see you on season two, or I will see you in an epilogue. You'll definitely see some tweets from me. Let's keep it alive, guys. Appreciate you. This happenings out.