{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":32.879,"endTime":35.543,"body":"Ahoy legend."},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":32.879,"endTime":35.543,"body":"Welcome to a another episode of"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":35.603,"endTime":39.297,"body":"the Team Buffalo podcast. I'm"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":35.603,"endTime":39.297,"body":"your host, Travis Thomas. Today"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":39.358000000000004,"endTime":42.991,"body":"we're going to do what we do"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":39.358000000000004,"endTime":42.991,"body":"each day, which is to dive into"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":43.052,"endTime":46.503,"body":"a leadership question that"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":43.052,"endTime":46.503,"body":"you've posed to try and figure"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":46.564,"endTime":50.318,"body":"out what would we suggest doing"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":46.564,"endTime":50.318,"body":"in that scenario? And what are"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":50.379000000000005,"endTime":53.649,"body":"some practical tips and"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":50.379000000000005,"endTime":53.649,"body":"takeaways? As leaders, certain"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":53.709,"endTime":56.858000000000004,"body":"issues are particularly"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":53.709,"endTime":56.858000000000004,"body":"challenging, some are pretty"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":56.919,"endTime":60.552,"body":"straightforward. But quite often"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":56.919,"endTime":60.552,"body":"things are complicated. And"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":60.613,"endTime":63.701,"body":"today's question is a"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":60.613,"endTime":63.701,"body":"complicated one. So they have"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":63.761,"endTime":67.334,"body":"mine on the questions, I feel"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":63.761,"endTime":67.334,"body":"terrible performance managing"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":67.39500000000001,"endTime":70.786,"body":"someone who is of an older"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":67.39500000000001,"endTime":70.786,"body":"generation, someone who is in"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":70.846,"endTime":74.601,"body":"their late years in the kind of"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":70.846,"endTime":74.601,"body":"60s going into 70s, is looking"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":74.661,"endTime":78.35499999999999,"body":"at the retirement track, but"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":74.661,"endTime":78.35499999999999,"body":"it's not performing particularly"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":78.416,"endTime":78.719,"body":"well."},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":78.719,"endTime":82.062,"body":"So the kind of details on this,"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":78.719,"endTime":82.062,"body":"which are important to include,"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":82.11500000000001,"endTime":85.14,"body":"and I'll summarize here,"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":82.11500000000001,"endTime":85.14,"body":"longtime employee, I've been the"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":85.193,"endTime":88.59,"body":"line manager for that person for"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":85.193,"endTime":88.59,"body":"a number of years, they've been"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":88.643,"endTime":91.93299999999999,"body":"a long term employee during that"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":88.643,"endTime":91.93299999999999,"body":"time, before their time, they"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":91.98599999999999,"endTime":95.276,"body":"expressed that they were going"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":91.98599999999999,"endTime":95.276,"body":"to retire. But some things have"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":95.329,"endTime":98.301,"body":"gone on, there's no more part"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":95.329,"endTime":98.301,"body":"time work allowance in the"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":98.354,"endTime":101.645,"body":"organization. So we can't offer"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":98.354,"endTime":101.645,"body":"them that as a thing. And they"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":101.698,"endTime":104.67,"body":"don't want to retire now,"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":101.698,"endTime":104.67,"body":"because they have nothing else"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":104.723,"endTime":108.013,"body":"to do with their time, they're"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":104.723,"endTime":108.013,"body":"going to be bored. They've said"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":108.066,"endTime":111.091,"body":"they're worried about being"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":108.066,"endTime":111.091,"body":"bored. So why not continue to"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":111.144,"endTime":114.329,"body":"earn money and just be in the"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":111.144,"endTime":114.329,"body":"workplace? Interesting, right?"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":114.382,"endTime":117.513,"body":"So you know, some of you may"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":114.382,"endTime":117.513,"body":"have faced this before, I have"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":117.566,"endTime":120.697,"body":"managed multiple generations."},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":117.566,"endTime":120.697,"body":"But when I wasn't managing in"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":120.75,"endTime":123.828,"body":"the corporate world, and as a"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":120.75,"endTime":123.828,"body":"consultant, I've encountered"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":123.881,"endTime":127.012,"body":"this a number of times across"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":123.881,"endTime":127.012,"body":"organizations. And first we'd"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":127.065,"endTime":130.303,"body":"want to look at motivation, I"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":127.065,"endTime":130.303,"body":"think is always a good place to"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":130.356,"endTime":133.64600000000002,"body":"start. But that's pretty clear."},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":130.356,"endTime":133.64600000000002,"body":"The person has said, Well, I'm"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":133.699,"endTime":136.777,"body":"just doing this because I'm kind"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":133.699,"endTime":136.777,"body":"of bored. That's okay, if"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":136.82999999999998,"endTime":140.227,"body":"someone's a little bit bored and"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":136.82999999999998,"endTime":140.227,"body":"doing something because they're"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":140.28,"endTime":143.517,"body":"bored. But the question we have"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":140.28,"endTime":143.517,"body":"to ask ourselves is, are they"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":143.57,"endTime":146.96699999999998,"body":"doing it to the right standard?"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":143.57,"endTime":146.96699999999998,"body":"That's a different thing. Right?"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":147.01999999999998,"endTime":150.416,"body":"If they're doing it to the right"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":147.01999999999998,"endTime":150.416,"body":"standard, then that's okay. But"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":150.469,"endTime":153.707,"body":"if they're not doing it to the"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":150.469,"endTime":153.707,"body":"right standard, well, what the"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":153.76,"endTime":157.156,"body":"heck are we going to do about it"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":153.76,"endTime":157.156,"body":"as a leader? And clearly that's"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":157.209,"endTime":160.287,"body":"the case here. They're not"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":157.209,"endTime":160.287,"body":"interested in meeting that, and"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":160.34,"endTime":163.631,"body":"we have to do something about"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":160.34,"endTime":163.631,"body":"it. So what do we do? First off,"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":163.684,"endTime":166.974,"body":"I think this should be a pretty"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":163.684,"endTime":166.974,"body":"clear first step is we need to"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":167.027,"endTime":170.371,"body":"have a sit down with this person"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":167.027,"endTime":170.371,"body":"who's named Joe, with the Joe,"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":170.424,"endTime":173.82,"body":"we got to sit down and get clear"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":170.424,"endTime":173.82,"body":"on what Joe, you've been here a"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":173.873,"endTime":176.951,"body":"long time you've been in the"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":173.873,"endTime":176.951,"body":"organization, you've done the"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":177.004,"endTime":180.082,"body":"things you need to do, we're,"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":177.004,"endTime":180.082,"body":"you know, we understand, you"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":180.135,"endTime":183.426,"body":"understand what good performance"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":180.135,"endTime":183.426,"body":"in this particular role looks"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":183.479,"endTime":186.239,"body":"like. But you're not quite"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":183.479,"endTime":186.239,"body":"meeting that performance."},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":186.239,"endTime":189.343,"body":"Now, I always say to leaders,"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":186.239,"endTime":189.343,"body":"I've got a framework that I put"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":189.394,"endTime":192.599,"body":"together a number of years ago"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":189.394,"endTime":192.599,"body":"and delivers, well, I always say"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":192.65,"endTime":195.551,"body":"to them with these types of"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":192.65,"endTime":195.551,"body":"conversations, you need to do"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":195.602,"endTime":198.859,"body":"the prep. So with our difficult"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":195.602,"endTime":198.859,"body":"conversations framework, there's"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":198.909,"endTime":202.115,"body":"four key areas we look at, and I"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":198.909,"endTime":202.115,"body":"call it OF IT. The idea is you"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":202.166,"endTime":205.372,"body":"look at observations, what are"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":202.166,"endTime":205.372,"body":"the things I can see that Joe is"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":205.423,"endTime":208.731,"body":"doing, that are causing problems"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":205.423,"endTime":208.731,"body":"or causing him to miss the mark?"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":208.782,"endTime":211.631,"body":"Feelings and what my job be"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":208.782,"endTime":211.631,"body":"feeling in terms of why he's"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":211.682,"endTime":214.532,"body":"performing that way and what"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":211.682,"endTime":214.532,"body":"he's trying to achieve? You"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":214.583,"endTime":217.534,"body":"know, he said, he's feeling"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":214.583,"endTime":217.534,"body":"bored. And so he comes to work"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":217.585,"endTime":220.74,"body":"because he's bored. Well, how am"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":217.585,"endTime":220.74,"body":"I feeling? And how are others"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":220.791,"endTime":223.793,"body":"around him feeling about his"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":220.791,"endTime":223.793,"body":"poor performance? Then we move"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":223.844,"endTime":226.643,"body":"to we've got observations and"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":223.844,"endTime":226.643,"body":"feelings, then we move to"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":226.694,"endTime":229.289,"body":"impacts. That's the \"I\" for"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":226.694,"endTime":229.289,"body":"impact. So what are the"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":229.34,"endTime":232.495,"body":"implications and impacts of this"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":229.34,"endTime":232.495,"body":"style of performance and this"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":232.546,"endTime":235.65,"body":"particular behavior set what's"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":232.546,"endTime":235.65,"body":"happening to the people around"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":235.701,"endTime":238.958,"body":"him and to you, as a leader, as"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":235.701,"endTime":238.958,"body":"a result of the things that he's"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":239.009,"endTime":242.113,"body":"doing and how he's choosing to"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":239.009,"endTime":242.113,"body":"perform? And then the T is for"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":242.164,"endTime":245.166,"body":"targets? We need to set some"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":242.164,"endTime":245.166,"body":"clear targets for Joe, if he's"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":245.217,"endTime":248.219,"body":"poor performing, we would assume"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":245.217,"endTime":248.219,"body":"that he's missing targets,"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":248.27,"endTime":251.171,"body":"because otherwise, how can"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":248.27,"endTime":251.171,"body":"someone be a poor performer if"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":251.222,"endTime":254.428,"body":"there are targets and standards"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":251.222,"endTime":254.428,"body":"they're meant to meet? But just"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":254.478,"endTime":257.175,"body":"in case there aren't, or if"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":254.478,"endTime":257.175,"body":"there are, and we haven't"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":257.226,"endTime":260.127,"body":"reinforced them, we need to be"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":257.226,"endTime":260.127,"body":"really clear on what those"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":260.178,"endTime":260.789,"body":"targets are."},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":260.789,"endTime":263.714,"body":"So that's a bit observations,"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":260.789,"endTime":263.714,"body":"feelings, impacts or"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":263.773,"endTime":267.342,"body":"implications if you prefer, and"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":263.773,"endTime":267.342,"body":"targets super useful, really,"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":267.4,"endTime":270.911,"body":"quite simplistic framework, but"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":267.4,"endTime":270.911,"body":"good in what it does. And it"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":270.97,"endTime":274.246,"body":"works really well. Even"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":270.97,"endTime":274.246,"body":"actually, just a couple of hours"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":274.305,"endTime":277.991,"body":"before this, I was delivering a"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":274.305,"endTime":277.991,"body":"workshop to a number of leaders"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":278.05,"endTime":281.619,"body":"on how to have these particular"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":278.05,"endTime":281.619,"body":"conversations. And they found"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":281.678,"endTime":285.422,"body":"the framework incredibly useful"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":281.678,"endTime":285.422,"body":"and applied it in real scenarios"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":285.481,"endTime":289.167,"body":"to solve that. So we have that"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":285.481,"endTime":289.167,"body":"conversation with Joe, we invite"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":289.226,"endTime":292.912,"body":"him to the conversation, we have"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":289.226,"endTime":292.912,"body":"it. And what do we want Joe to"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":292.97,"endTime":296.072,"body":"walk away with? Well, we want"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":292.97,"endTime":296.072,"body":"Joe to walk away with a"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":296.13,"endTime":299.699,"body":"commitment to that performance"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":296.13,"endTime":299.699,"body":"standard. So some people might"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":299.758,"endTime":303.269,"body":"say, well, like Joe said, he's"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":299.758,"endTime":303.269,"body":"not really in it for the job."},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":303.327,"endTime":306.662,"body":"There. He's just doing it"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":303.327,"endTime":306.662,"body":"because he bored. Well, I'd ask"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":306.721,"endTime":310.349,"body":"you as a leader, does that give"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":306.721,"endTime":310.349,"body":"Joe a pass? Your job is bored,"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":310.407,"endTime":314.094,"body":"and he's doing it to entertain"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":310.407,"endTime":314.094,"body":"himself, you know, is that fair?"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":314.152,"endTime":317.78,"body":"You know, could you turn up and"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":314.152,"endTime":317.78,"body":"just say, I'm just going to do"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":317.838,"endTime":321.583,"body":"what I feel like doing or how I"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":317.838,"endTime":321.583,"body":"feel like performing because I'm"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":321.642,"endTime":324.684,"body":"just here because the"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":321.642,"endTime":324.684,"body":"alternative is quite boring me"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":324.743,"endTime":328.371,"body":"hanging at home is boring and"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":324.743,"endTime":328.371,"body":"and I do kind of want to income."},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":328.429,"endTime":331.647,"body":"No way. That's fun. That's"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":328.429,"endTime":331.647,"body":"freaking crazy, you can't do"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":331.706,"endTime":334.983,"body":"that. So I'd say to you, what"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":331.706,"endTime":334.983,"body":"would you do for any other"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":335.041,"endTime":338.727,"body":"member of your team? What would"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":335.041,"endTime":338.727,"body":"you say to Sally? Or what would"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":338.786,"endTime":342.531,"body":"you say to anyone else who's in"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":338.786,"endTime":342.531,"body":"the same category or a different"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":342.589,"endTime":346.276,"body":"category, but performing under"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":342.589,"endTime":346.276,"body":"your remit? You would say, well,"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":346.334,"endTime":349.435,"body":"this isn't good enough,"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":346.334,"endTime":349.435,"body":"hopefully, if not, then we've"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":349.494,"endTime":353.18,"body":"got a broader conversation about"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":349.494,"endTime":353.18,"body":"your leadership and standards."},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":353.239,"endTime":355.17,"body":"But I'm sure that's not the case."},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":355.17,"endTime":358.435,"body":"So you have that conversation"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":355.17,"endTime":358.435,"body":"with Joe, then what you need to"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":358.489,"endTime":361.754,"body":"do with that T, the letter T"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":358.489,"endTime":361.754,"body":"remembers for targets is we need"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":361.808,"endTime":365.127,"body":"to set a target for performance."},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":361.808,"endTime":365.127,"body":"And we need to set a timeline"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":365.181,"endTime":368.554,"body":"for him to meet that performance"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":365.181,"endTime":368.554,"body":"threshold. So if I say to Joe,"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":368.607,"endTime":371.659,"body":"look, I want to see your"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":368.607,"endTime":371.659,"body":"performance go from level one to"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":371.712,"endTime":374.924,"body":"level three, or whatever, you"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":371.712,"endTime":374.924,"body":"know, from 80%, on this KPI to"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":374.978,"endTime":378.404,"body":"90%, I need to tell him by when."},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":374.978,"endTime":378.404,"body":"Because if I say to him, I want"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":378.458,"endTime":381.83,"body":"you to 80% or 90% could take a"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":378.458,"endTime":381.83,"body":"month, they could say, well, I'm"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":381.884,"endTime":384.936,"body":"working on I'm working on it,"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":381.884,"endTime":384.936,"body":"no, I won't commitment to a"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":384.989,"endTime":387.987,"body":"certain timeframe. So be"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":384.989,"endTime":387.987,"body":"specific about what I need, you"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":388.041,"endTime":391.146,"body":"know, all the smarter goal"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":388.041,"endTime":391.146,"body":"stuff, be specific, Joe, I need"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":391.199,"endTime":394.465,"body":"you to perform at this level,"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":391.199,"endTime":394.465,"body":"how we get there, I'll give Joe"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":394.519,"endTime":397.891,"body":"some permission to be creative."},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":394.519,"endTime":397.891,"body":"And in some of the standards of"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":397.945,"endTime":401.318,"body":"the way he executes on that, but"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":397.945,"endTime":401.318,"body":"he needs to hit those targets."},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":401.371,"endTime":404.583,"body":"And if you hit those targets, I"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":401.371,"endTime":404.583,"body":"give them positive price. So"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":404.637,"endTime":407.795,"body":"Joe, great, you know, I'm so"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":404.637,"endTime":407.795,"body":"glad you're still on the team."},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":407.849,"endTime":411.115,"body":"It's been good having you here,"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":407.849,"endTime":411.115,"body":"you know, I really appreciate"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":411.168,"endTime":414.059,"body":"your performance and the"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":411.168,"endTime":414.059,"body":"adjustment in the performance"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":414.113,"endTime":417.378,"body":"that you've made. And if Joe"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":414.113,"endTime":417.378,"body":"doesn't meet the standards, then"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":417.432,"endTime":420.537,"body":"what would you do? What do you"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":417.432,"endTime":420.537,"body":"think, what what would your"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":420.591,"endTime":423.696,"body":"response be? Well, hopefully"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":420.591,"endTime":423.696,"body":"your response would be, well,"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":423.749,"endTime":427.122,"body":"let's get Joe back in the room"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":423.749,"endTime":427.122,"body":"again, and have the conversation"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":427.176,"endTime":430.12,"body":"again, hey, Joe, you know,"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":427.176,"endTime":430.12,"body":"you've missed the target, or"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":430.174,"endTime":433.118,"body":"you've missed the interim"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":430.174,"endTime":433.118,"body":"target, which is even better,"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":433.172,"endTime":436.651,"body":"because then we're not waiting a"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":433.172,"endTime":436.651,"body":"whole quarter a month for him to"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":436.705,"endTime":439.757,"body":"miss it. You're Joe, you've"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":436.705,"endTime":439.757,"body":"missed the interim target. We"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":439.81,"endTime":442.915,"body":"need to talk about this, again,"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":439.81,"endTime":442.915,"body":"we need to talk about what"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":442.969,"endTime":446.395,"body":"specifically happened, what were"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":442.969,"endTime":446.395,"body":"the observations? And what were"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":446.449,"endTime":449.554,"body":"the impacts of that? And then"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":446.449,"endTime":449.554,"body":"what's the new target? Or if"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":449.607,"endTime":452.98,"body":"it's the same target, Joe, when"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":449.607,"endTime":452.98,"body":"you're going to hit this target"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":453.033,"endTime":456.192,"body":"by? Does he have all the skills"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":453.033,"endTime":456.192,"body":"to do it? Are the processes"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":456.246,"endTime":459.03,"body":"clear? Of course, yes, because"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":456.246,"endTime":459.03,"body":"he's done it in past."},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":459.03,"endTime":462.211,"body":"So if nothing else has changed,"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":459.03,"endTime":462.211,"body":"aside from his retirement"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":462.267,"endTime":465.894,"body":"aspirations, then Joe, you gotta"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":462.267,"endTime":465.894,"body":"hit this target. Then after that"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":465.95,"endTime":469.466,"body":"interim target passes again. So"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":465.95,"endTime":469.466,"body":"this is the second one, we come"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":469.522,"endTime":472.703,"body":"to a point where I'd say a"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":469.522,"endTime":472.703,"body":"couple of things might happen."},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":472.759,"endTime":476.108,"body":"One is he might hit the target"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":472.759,"endTime":476.108,"body":"goes, Oh, you're not going to"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":476.163,"endTime":479.679,"body":"leave me alone about this, are"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":476.163,"endTime":479.679,"body":"you? Okay, I'll meet the target."},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":479.735,"endTime":483.196,"body":"If he doesn't meet the target."},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":479.735,"endTime":483.196,"body":"And you can see that happening,"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":483.251,"endTime":486.712,"body":"you start bothering him again,"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":483.251,"endTime":486.712,"body":"you say, Joe, just so you know,"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":486.767,"endTime":490.228,"body":"if you don't hit this target for"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":486.767,"endTime":490.228,"body":"this quarter, it's actually a"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":490.283,"endTime":493.465,"body":"formal performance warning you"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":490.283,"endTime":493.465,"body":"need to go out or a formal"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":493.52,"endTime":496.813,"body":"warning that you'll receive,"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":493.52,"endTime":496.813,"body":"because you're missing targets"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":496.869,"endTime":500.274,"body":"for consecutive months, that"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":496.869,"endTime":500.274,"body":"might wake him up. Or, you know,"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":500.329,"endTime":503.566,"body":"if those two don't work, the"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":500.329,"endTime":503.566,"body":"third thing that will happen,"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":503.622,"endTime":507.082,"body":"and this is a possibility, and"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":503.622,"endTime":507.082,"body":"I've seen it happen is Joe will"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":507.138,"endTime":510.375,"body":"continue to miss performance"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":507.138,"endTime":510.375,"body":"until either he gets tired of"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":510.431,"endTime":513.501,"body":"you harassing him and he quits."},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":510.431,"endTime":513.501,"body":"Or he gets tired of you"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":513.557,"endTime":516.8489999999999,"body":"harassing him and you perform"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":513.557,"endTime":516.8489999999999,"body":"really manage and out because"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":516.905,"endTime":520.086,"body":"he's not willing to leave and"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":516.905,"endTime":520.086,"body":"not willing to change. That"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":520.142,"endTime":523.491,"body":"sucks, right? I mean, I had that"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":520.142,"endTime":523.491,"body":"conversation today. And the"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":523.547,"endTime":527.174,"body":"difficult conversations workshop"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":523.547,"endTime":527.174,"body":"we had earlier is that sometimes"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":527.23,"endTime":530.356,"body":"the answer is performance"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":527.23,"endTime":530.356,"body":"management. But let's do those"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":530.4110000000001,"endTime":533.816,"body":"other things. So to summarize,"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":530.4110000000001,"endTime":533.816,"body":"let's use the OF IT framework."},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":533.8720000000001,"endTime":537.1089999999999,"body":"And to get really clear on"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":533.8720000000001,"endTime":537.1089999999999,"body":"observations, feelings, impacts"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":537.164,"endTime":540.569,"body":"and targets that we want to see"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":537.164,"endTime":540.569,"body":"for Joe, we need to be really"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":540.625,"endTime":544.141,"body":"clear and walk through that in"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":540.625,"endTime":544.141,"body":"the difficult conversation, then"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":544.197,"endTime":547.322,"body":"we need to follow up and"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":544.197,"endTime":547.322,"body":"continue to manage that process"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":547.378,"endTime":550.838,"body":"and his performance against that"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":547.378,"endTime":550.838,"body":"process. And then once all of"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":550.894,"endTime":553.908,"body":"that is said and done, you"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":550.894,"endTime":553.908,"body":"should have an outcome that"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":553.963,"endTime":556.921,"body":"either means he's lifted his"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":553.963,"endTime":556.921,"body":"performance to meet your"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":556.977,"endTime":560.549,"body":"targets, or he's failed to lift"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":556.977,"endTime":560.549,"body":"to those targets. And you're now"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":560.605,"endTime":564.121,"body":"managing him towards either him"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":560.605,"endTime":564.121,"body":"choosing to leave or you having"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":564.177,"endTime":565.74,"body":"to formulate manage him out."},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":566.459,"endTime":569.54,"body":"I know that's not easy. I've sat"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":566.459,"endTime":569.54,"body":"in that seat having to"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":569.596,"endTime":573.183,"body":"performance manage people, every"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":569.596,"endTime":573.183,"body":"good leader has at one point or"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":573.239,"endTime":576.432,"body":"another, recognize that some"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":573.239,"endTime":576.432,"body":"people it's not about skill,"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":576.488,"endTime":579.682,"body":"it's not about process, it's"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":576.488,"endTime":579.682,"body":"actually about their will to"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":579.738,"endTime":583.044,"body":"change, and you have to manage"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":579.738,"endTime":583.044,"body":"them out because they're not"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":583.1,"endTime":586.462,"body":"willing to change. So I think"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":583.1,"endTime":586.462,"body":"that's super important to keep"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":586.518,"endTime":589.881,"body":"in mind. That's it for today's"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":586.518,"endTime":589.881,"body":"one leadership question about"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":589.937,"endTime":592.794,"body":"what to do and how to"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":589.937,"endTime":592.794,"body":"performance manage someone or"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":592.85,"endTime":596.324,"body":"manage someone's performance,"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":592.85,"endTime":596.324,"body":"who is not meeting expectations."},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":596.38,"endTime":599.406,"body":"Now if you enjoyed today's"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":596.38,"endTime":599.406,"body":"episode, I encourage you to"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":599.462,"endTime":603.104,"body":"subscribe for more you can check"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":599.462,"endTime":603.104,"body":"out also our great newsletter on"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":603.16,"endTime":606.578,"body":"teambuffalo.co/newsletter and"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":603.16,"endTime":606.578,"body":"sign up there. We've even got a"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":606.635,"endTime":610.053,"body":"kick a$$ referral program where"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":606.635,"endTime":610.053,"body":"you can get all kinds of cool"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":610.109,"endTime":613.583,"body":"rewards and tools and whatnot"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":610.109,"endTime":613.583,"body":"for referring other subscribers."},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":613.639,"endTime":616.833,"body":"Check it out and I look forward"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":613.639,"endTime":616.833,"body":"to seeing you in the next"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":616.889,"endTime":618.29,"body":"episode. Have a good one."}]}