{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":31.74,"endTime":35.37,"body":"Ahoy legend."},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":31.74,"endTime":35.37,"body":"Welcome to another episode of"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":35.37,"endTime":38.58,"body":"the Team Buffalo podcast. I'm"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":35.37,"endTime":38.58,"body":"your host, Travis Thomas."},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":37.75,"endTime":44.59,"body":"Today's topic is should I really"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":37.75,"endTime":44.59,"body":"conduct an exit interview? It's"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":44.59,"endTime":47.2,"body":"an interesting one that comes up"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":44.59,"endTime":47.2,"body":"quite a bit lately. And I think"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":47.2,"endTime":50.86,"body":"the reason it's come up a fair"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":47.2,"endTime":50.86,"body":"bit lately, obviously, is"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":50.86,"endTime":53.68,"body":"there's a global talent"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":50.86,"endTime":53.68,"body":"shortage, people are on the go,"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":53.769999999999996,"endTime":58.03,"body":"lots of changes. And some people"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":53.769999999999996,"endTime":58.03,"body":"are asking, Well, should I even"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":58.03,"endTime":61.6,"body":"bother? Does it really matter"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":58.03,"endTime":61.6,"body":"why someone's leaving? And"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":61.6,"endTime":64.24000000000001,"body":"before we get right into the"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":61.6,"endTime":64.24000000000001,"body":"answer, I think we should unpick"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":64.24000000000001,"endTime":66.91,"body":"a little bit of what they're"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":64.24000000000001,"endTime":66.91,"body":"asking, see if the context makes"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":66.94,"endTime":71.11,"body":"a whole lot of a difference. And"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":66.94,"endTime":71.11,"body":"then we can go from there. So"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":71.17,"endTime":74.28999999999999,"body":"quick question. My assistant is"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":71.17,"endTime":74.28999999999999,"body":"leaving at the end of the month,"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":74.32,"endTime":77.8,"body":"I have always heard you should"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":74.32,"endTime":77.8,"body":"lead an exit interview with"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":77.8,"endTime":82.57,"body":"anyone who quits. Is an exit"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":77.8,"endTime":82.57,"body":"interview still normal. If the"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":82.57,"endTime":89.22999999999999,"body":"person was part time, does that"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":82.57,"endTime":89.22999999999999,"body":"make a difference? And should I"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":89.22999999999999,"endTime":92.77000000000001,"body":"lead the exit interview? And can"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":89.22999999999999,"endTime":92.77000000000001,"body":"you let me know what types of"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":92.77000000000001,"endTime":96.22,"body":"questions should be included?"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":92.77000000000001,"endTime":96.22,"body":"I'm going to cover off on the"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":96.22,"endTime":99.37,"body":"exit interview bit. Because I"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":96.22,"endTime":99.37,"body":"think that's important. And it"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":99.37,"endTime":102.97,"body":"answers the question, but then"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":99.37,"endTime":102.97,"body":"I'll give you a useful thing"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":102.97,"endTime":105.91,"body":"that you should also be doing"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":102.97,"endTime":105.91,"body":"beyond the exit interview. So"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":105.91,"endTime":111.16,"body":"stay tuned in for that bit after"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":105.91,"endTime":111.16,"body":"but to start with unequivocably?"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":111.19,"endTime":114.46,"body":"Yes, the answer is yes, we"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":111.19,"endTime":114.46,"body":"should do an exit interview"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":114.49,"endTime":116.89,"body":"where you might go well, Travis,"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":114.49,"endTime":116.89,"body":"you know, had three people leave"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":116.89,"endTime":121.18,"body":"last week and this regardless of"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":116.89,"endTime":121.18,"body":"how many have left and why"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":121.21,"endTime":125.62,"body":"they've left, you still need to"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":121.21,"endTime":125.62,"body":"know. And I think by not knowing"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":125.62,"endTime":129.04000000000002,"body":"you leave yourself vulnerable to"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":125.62,"endTime":129.04000000000002,"body":"what you might not have known"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":129.25,"endTime":132.45999999999998,"body":"rather than knowing and just"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":129.25,"endTime":132.45999999999998,"body":"reaffirming what you thought you"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":132.45999999999998,"endTime":136.26999999999998,"body":"knew. So it's kind of like if I"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":132.45999999999998,"endTime":136.26999999999998,"body":"didn't ask Was I right? But if I"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":136.26999999999998,"endTime":140.23000000000002,"body":"did ask, and I was right, then I"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":136.26999999999998,"endTime":140.23000000000002,"body":"was right. But if I did ask, and"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":140.23000000000002,"endTime":143.59,"body":"I wasn't right, well, cool."},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":140.23000000000002,"endTime":143.59,"body":"Good. I've learned something I"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":143.59,"endTime":146.98000000000002,"body":"didn't know. So some of the"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":143.59,"endTime":146.98000000000002,"body":"things you want to keep an eye"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":146.98000000000002,"endTime":150.25,"body":"out for an exit interview are"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":146.98000000000002,"endTime":150.25,"body":"fair that you might be seeing a"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":150.25,"endTime":152.35,"body":"lot of and that are fairly"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":150.25,"endTime":152.35,"body":"common at the moment are things"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":152.35,"endTime":155.98000000000002,"body":"like pay, and people are leaving"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":152.35,"endTime":155.98000000000002,"body":"for pay. And I'm gonna give you"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":155.98000000000002,"endTime":159.25,"body":"that tactic at the end that I"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":155.98000000000002,"endTime":159.25,"body":"will think will help with some"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":159.25,"endTime":161.68,"body":"of this. But you, you need to"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":159.25,"endTime":161.68,"body":"make sure you're asking the"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":161.68,"endTime":164.98,"body":"right questions at the right"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":161.68,"endTime":164.98,"body":"time. So one is pay. Another is"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":164.98,"endTime":169.54,"body":"culture is a shockingly or not"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":164.98,"endTime":169.54,"body":"necessarily to us, but"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":169.72,"endTime":174.1,"body":"shockingly to other leaders"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":169.72,"endTime":174.1,"body":"without being judgey. They're"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":174.1,"endTime":176.02,"body":"saying, well, people are leaving"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":174.1,"endTime":176.02,"body":"because they say they don't"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":176.02,"endTime":178.69,"body":"enjoy working here. They don't"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":176.02,"endTime":178.69,"body":"like their boss, or they're"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":178.69,"endTime":183.07,"body":"having a rough go and they don't"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":178.69,"endTime":183.07,"body":"feel supported. Yeah, people"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":183.07,"endTime":185.5,"body":"have just been through a"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":183.07,"endTime":185.5,"body":"pandemic for a couple of years,"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":185.5,"endTime":188.11,"body":"we're still going through, we're"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":185.5,"endTime":188.11,"body":"now on the heels of an economic"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":188.11,"endTime":191.53,"body":"recession globally. And I think"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":188.11,"endTime":191.53,"body":"we're kind of there. And people"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":191.53,"endTime":196.27,"body":"are now dealing with extremely"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":191.53,"endTime":196.27,"body":"high levels of burnout levels of"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":196.27,"endTime":201.82,"body":"burnout. You know, I've been in"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":196.27,"endTime":201.82,"body":"the workplace for since my late"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":201.82,"endTime":203.23,"body":"teens. So we'll say 20 odd"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":201.82,"endTime":203.23,"body":"years. And I've never seen kind"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":203.23,"endTime":204.37,"body":"of this level of exhaustion in"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":203.23,"endTime":204.37,"body":"the workforce in my whole"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":204.4,"endTime":205.57,"body":"working life, which is, you"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":204.4,"endTime":205.57,"body":"know, about half of my life or"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":205.57,"endTime":216.58,"body":"so. And I think that says"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":205.57,"endTime":216.58,"body":"something. And I think if you"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":216.58,"endTime":218.8,"body":"think that doesn't say"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":216.58,"endTime":218.8,"body":"something, as a leader, you're"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":218.8,"endTime":222.43,"body":"leaving yourself well and truly"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":218.8,"endTime":222.43,"body":"open to people feeling like"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":222.43,"endTime":227.11,"body":"they're not looked after and not"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":222.43,"endTime":227.11,"body":"supported. So extreme burnout."},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":227.14,"endTime":230.5,"body":"And then on the back of that is"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":227.14,"endTime":230.5,"body":"low tolerance, given the high"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":230.5,"endTime":234.34,"body":"market opportunity for poor"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":230.5,"endTime":234.34,"body":"leadership. So what that means"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":234.34,"endTime":239.05,"body":"is there are really, really high"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":234.34,"endTime":239.05,"body":"levels of job vacancies."},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":239.08,"endTime":241.78,"body":"Unemployment rate is as low as"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":239.08,"endTime":241.78,"body":"it's been for a long period of"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":241.78,"endTime":244.18,"body":"time. Of course, these things"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":241.78,"endTime":244.18,"body":"are cyclical, and it will turn"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":244.39,"endTime":247.75,"body":"but for now, employees have"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":244.39,"endTime":247.75,"body":"buying power. If you are not a"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":247.75,"endTime":250.21,"body":"great organization to work with"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":247.75,"endTime":250.21,"body":"or your a terrible leader, or"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":250.21,"endTime":252.58,"body":"even your leader that's just"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":250.21,"endTime":252.58,"body":"busy and looking after your"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":252.58,"endTime":257.14,"body":"people, you will lose people"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":252.58,"endTime":257.14,"body":"purely based on the sole volume"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":257.14,"endTime":261.03999999999996,"body":"of market opportunity that's out"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":257.14,"endTime":261.03999999999996,"body":"there. People are tired and they"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":261.03999999999996,"endTime":263.47,"body":"have choices. You know, if"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":261.03999999999996,"endTime":263.47,"body":"there's a lot of choices, a lot"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":263.47,"endTime":267.01,"body":"of fish in the sea, I will go."},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":263.47,"endTime":267.01,"body":"And it's really not that hard."},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":267.01,"endTime":269.71000000000004,"body":"And in many industries I'm"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":267.01,"endTime":269.71000000000004,"body":"consulting in at the moment,"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":269.89,"endTime":272.44,"body":"people are being headhunted"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":269.89,"endTime":272.44,"body":"directly. They're getting direct"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":272.44,"endTime":274.06,"body":"outreach from recruiter saying,"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":272.44,"endTime":274.06,"body":"Hey, I"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":273.75,"endTime":277.62,"body":"know that employers kind of"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":273.75,"endTime":277.62,"body":"paying around this amount, we"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":277.62,"endTime":281.37,"body":"offer these benefits, we've got"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":277.62,"endTime":281.37,"body":"this culture, and we'll pay this"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":281.37,"endTime":285.41999999999996,"body":"level of salary. How would the"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":281.37,"endTime":285.41999999999996,"body":"person not entertain that? And"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":285.41999999999996,"endTime":287.7,"body":"if you're a good leader, and"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":285.41999999999996,"endTime":287.7,"body":"maybe you're paying a little bit"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":287.7,"endTime":290.46,"body":"below market rates, that's okay."},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":287.7,"endTime":290.46,"body":"You know, peeps, people will"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":290.46,"endTime":293.4,"body":"stay for that some people will"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":290.46,"endTime":293.4,"body":"take lower pay in exchange for a"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":293.4,"endTime":296.25,"body":"guaranteed or a really good"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":293.4,"endTime":296.25,"body":"culture that they know. But"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":296.25,"endTime":298.5,"body":"ifthe culture is crap. You're"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":296.25,"endTime":298.5,"body":"not looking after people."},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":298.53,"endTime":300.63,"body":"They're not being developed and"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":298.53,"endTime":300.63,"body":"they're being pushed to the"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":300.63,"endTime":304.17,"body":"brink, they're going to go so we"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":300.63,"endTime":304.17,"body":"need to understand why are they"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":304.17,"endTime":307.53,"body":"leaving is it burnout? Is it"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":304.17,"endTime":307.53,"body":"salary? Is it they you know,"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":307.56,"endTime":311.13,"body":"something we couldn't get past?"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":307.56,"endTime":311.13,"body":"Or there's another bucket which"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":311.55,"endTime":314.16,"body":"I think is really important to"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":311.55,"endTime":314.16,"body":"remember too is there are"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":314.16,"endTime":317.22,"body":"healthy reasons for attrition."},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":314.16,"endTime":317.22,"body":"So for years, I've always said"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":317.22,"endTime":319.65,"body":"to leaders, you should have two"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":317.22,"endTime":319.65,"body":"categories for when someone"},{"speaker":"leaves","startTime":319.65,"endTime":323.1,"body":"healthy and unhealthy"},{"speaker":"leaves","startTime":319.65,"endTime":323.1,"body":"attrition. Healthy attrition are"},{"speaker":"leaves","startTime":323.1,"endTime":326.94,"body":"things like, you know, I'm going"},{"speaker":"leaves","startTime":323.1,"endTime":326.94,"body":"to start a new career. So for"},{"speaker":"leaves","startTime":326.94,"endTime":330.12,"body":"example, my team about a year or"},{"speaker":"leaves","startTime":326.94,"endTime":330.12,"body":"two ago at someone leaves she"},{"speaker":"leaves","startTime":330.12,"endTime":333.42,"body":"was amazed. thing, but she left"},{"speaker":"leaves","startTime":330.12,"endTime":333.42,"body":"because she was going to become"},{"speaker":"leaves","startTime":333.48,"endTime":337.41,"body":"a teacher. Well, why would I try"},{"speaker":"leaves","startTime":333.48,"endTime":337.41,"body":"and convince that person to stay"},{"speaker":"leaves","startTime":337.41,"endTime":339.66,"body":"on the team, when they were"},{"speaker":"leaves","startTime":337.41,"endTime":339.66,"body":"starting to become a teacher,"},{"speaker":"leaves","startTime":339.66,"endTime":341.49,"body":"they're not positioned to become"},{"speaker":"leaves","startTime":339.66,"endTime":341.49,"body":"a teacher, and they've always"},{"speaker":"leaves","startTime":341.49,"endTime":343.98,"body":"wanted to be a teacher. We knew"},{"speaker":"leaves","startTime":341.49,"endTime":343.98,"body":"that when we brought her on"},{"speaker":"leaves","startTime":343.98,"endTime":347.13,"body":"board, but that's okay, that's"},{"speaker":"leaves","startTime":343.98,"endTime":347.13,"body":"healthy attrition, that's not,"},{"speaker":"leaves","startTime":347.37,"endTime":349.32,"body":"you know, oh, we should have"},{"speaker":"leaves","startTime":347.37,"endTime":349.32,"body":"made her stay. And we didn't"},{"speaker":"leaves","startTime":349.32,"endTime":353.1,"body":"convince it. No, let her go."},{"speaker":"leaves","startTime":349.32,"endTime":353.1,"body":"That's not what she wanted. Let"},{"speaker":"leaves","startTime":353.1,"endTime":355.56,"body":"her go let her be the thing she"},{"speaker":"leaves","startTime":353.1,"endTime":355.56,"body":"was meant to be. And if she"},{"speaker":"leaves","startTime":355.56,"endTime":357.66,"body":"wants to come back, I would hire"},{"speaker":"leaves","startTime":355.56,"endTime":357.66,"body":"her back in a heartbeat. Because"},{"speaker":"leaves","startTime":357.66,"endTime":360.24,"body":"she's amazing. And she knows"},{"speaker":"leaves","startTime":357.66,"endTime":360.24,"body":"that we had that conversation."},{"speaker":"leaves","startTime":360.27,"endTime":363.63,"body":"Great. Other healthy attrition"},{"speaker":"leaves","startTime":360.27,"endTime":363.63,"body":"reasons or change in lifestyle"},{"speaker":"leaves","startTime":363.63,"endTime":366.42,"body":"or circumstances, you know, one"},{"speaker":"leaves","startTime":363.63,"endTime":366.42,"body":"person, their partner moved"},{"speaker":"leaves","startTime":366.42,"endTime":368.82,"body":"away, and they decided that they"},{"speaker":"leaves","startTime":366.42,"endTime":368.82,"body":"didn't want a part time job."},{"speaker":"leaves","startTime":368.85,"endTime":371.61,"body":"Unfortunately for that job, it"},{"speaker":"leaves","startTime":368.85,"endTime":371.61,"body":"couldn't be accommodated with"},{"speaker":"leaves","startTime":371.61,"endTime":374.55,"body":"this particular individual in"},{"speaker":"leaves","startTime":371.61,"endTime":374.55,"body":"this scenario in this client,"},{"speaker":"leaves","startTime":374.82,"endTime":377.4,"body":"that they could do part time,"},{"speaker":"leaves","startTime":374.82,"endTime":377.4,"body":"you do your best to make"},{"speaker":"leaves","startTime":377.4,"endTime":380.25,"body":"accommodations, but that's an"},{"speaker":"leaves","startTime":377.4,"endTime":380.25,"body":"unreasonable accommodation, when"},{"speaker":"leaves","startTime":380.28,"endTime":383.01,"body":"the business just couldn't"},{"speaker":"leaves","startTime":380.28,"endTime":383.01,"body":"tolerate that as a part time"},{"speaker":"leaves","startTime":383.01,"endTime":385.47,"body":"role. It needed to be full time"},{"speaker":"leaves","startTime":383.01,"endTime":385.47,"body":"they tried finding someone to"},{"speaker":"leaves","startTime":385.47,"endTime":387.63,"body":"Job share, couldn't find"},{"speaker":"leaves","startTime":385.47,"endTime":387.63,"body":"someone, they did make an effort"},{"speaker":"leaves","startTime":387.63,"endTime":390.63,"body":"and it didn't work. That would"},{"speaker":"leaves","startTime":387.63,"endTime":390.63,"body":"be healthy attrition, yes, we"},{"speaker":"leaves","startTime":390.63,"endTime":393.6,"body":"would have liked to retain them,"},{"speaker":"leaves","startTime":390.63,"endTime":393.6,"body":"but we could not retain the"},{"speaker":"leaves","startTime":393.6,"endTime":396.57,"body":"person in that scenario. So"},{"speaker":"leaves","startTime":393.6,"endTime":396.57,"body":"we've got two examples there of"},{"speaker":"leaves","startTime":396.57,"endTime":399.12,"body":"healthy attrition. There are a"},{"speaker":"leaves","startTime":396.57,"endTime":399.12,"body":"number of others, if you do"},{"speaker":"leaves","startTime":399.12,"endTime":401.61,"body":"research online, I'm sure you'll"},{"speaker":"leaves","startTime":399.12,"endTime":401.61,"body":"find multiple others are happy"},{"speaker":"leaves","startTime":401.61,"endTime":404.61,"body":"to chat about those unhealthy"},{"speaker":"leaves","startTime":401.61,"endTime":404.61,"body":"attrition is, of course, the"},{"speaker":"leaves","startTime":404.61,"endTime":407.97,"body":"things that are preventable, or"},{"speaker":"leaves","startTime":404.61,"endTime":407.97,"body":"things that maybe we didn't"},{"speaker":"leaves","startTime":407.97,"endTime":410.43,"body":"know, were an issue, but we"},{"speaker":"leaves","startTime":407.97,"endTime":410.43,"body":"probably should have known. So"},{"speaker":"leaves","startTime":410.43,"endTime":413.88,"body":"poor leadership, people being"},{"speaker":"leaves","startTime":410.43,"endTime":413.88,"body":"burned out and not being looked"},{"speaker":"leaves","startTime":413.88,"endTime":417.45,"body":"after increasing workloads."},{"speaker":"leaves","startTime":413.88,"endTime":417.45,"body":"Sometimes, because of the fact"},{"speaker":"leaves","startTime":417.45,"endTime":420.96,"body":"that those other vacancies on"},{"speaker":"leaves","startTime":417.45,"endTime":420.96,"body":"the team exist, your existing"},{"speaker":"leaves","startTime":420.96,"endTime":424.38,"body":"team members will have to carry"},{"speaker":"leaves","startTime":420.96,"endTime":424.38,"body":"the additional load, keep an eye"},{"speaker":"leaves","startTime":424.38,"endTime":426.84,"body":"on them. If they get burned out."},{"speaker":"leaves","startTime":424.38,"endTime":426.84,"body":"And I see others heading for the"},{"speaker":"leaves","startTime":426.84,"endTime":430.32,"body":"door, they may head for the door"},{"speaker":"leaves","startTime":426.84,"endTime":430.32,"body":"pay when we could have done"},{"speaker":"leaves","startTime":430.32,"endTime":433.05,"body":"something about pays a really"},{"speaker":"leaves","startTime":430.32,"endTime":433.05,"body":"terrible reason. You know, I had"},{"speaker":"leaves","startTime":433.05,"endTime":437.28,"body":"a previous clients who have"},{"speaker":"leaves","startTime":433.05,"endTime":437.28,"body":"said, Never go into details. But"},{"speaker":"leaves","startTime":437.28,"endTime":440.64,"body":"previous clients have said, hey,"},{"speaker":"leaves","startTime":437.28,"endTime":440.64,"body":"you know, we keep losing people"},{"speaker":"leaves","startTime":440.64,"endTime":444.39,"body":"to XYZ down the road. And I say,"},{"speaker":"leaves","startTime":440.64,"endTime":444.39,"body":"Well, what are they paying? So"},{"speaker":"leaves","startTime":444.39,"endTime":447.24,"body":"they're paying this? So what are"},{"speaker":"leaves","startTime":444.39,"endTime":447.24,"body":"you paying paying this? Why is"},{"speaker":"leaves","startTime":447.24,"endTime":450.27,"body":"there such a big gap? Look, we"},{"speaker":"leaves","startTime":447.24,"endTime":450.27,"body":"want to keep our our costs as"},{"speaker":"leaves","startTime":450.27,"endTime":453.39,"body":"low as possible? Well, look,"},{"speaker":"leaves","startTime":450.27,"endTime":453.39,"body":"it's nice to try and keep your"},{"speaker":"leaves","startTime":453.39,"endTime":455.58,"body":"costs at a certain level. And"},{"speaker":"leaves","startTime":453.39,"endTime":455.58,"body":"yes, you need to still make"},{"speaker":"leaves","startTime":455.58,"endTime":458.37,"body":"money. But if you're clear that"},{"speaker":"leaves","startTime":455.58,"endTime":458.37,"body":"the rest of the market is paying"},{"speaker":"leaves","startTime":458.64,"endTime":461.97,"body":"multiple levels above yours to"},{"speaker":"leaves","startTime":458.64,"endTime":461.97,"body":"the point where you're"},{"speaker":"leaves","startTime":461.97,"endTime":465.54,"body":"non-competitive, you're going to"},{"speaker":"leaves","startTime":461.97,"endTime":465.54,"body":"lose in that model, you cannot"},{"speaker":"leaves","startTime":465.54,"endTime":468.24,"body":"expect people to stay when they"},{"speaker":"leaves","startTime":465.54,"endTime":468.24,"body":"know the market pays more than"},{"speaker":"leaves","startTime":468.24,"endTime":472.05,"body":"that. So those are examples of"},{"speaker":"leaves","startTime":468.24,"endTime":472.05,"body":"unhealthy attrition, talked"},{"speaker":"leaves","startTime":472.05,"endTime":474.9,"body":"about healthy attrition. Some of"},{"speaker":"leaves","startTime":472.05,"endTime":474.9,"body":"the questions you want to ask in"},{"speaker":"leaves","startTime":474.9,"endTime":477.09,"body":"the interview, which I think are"},{"speaker":"leaves","startTime":474.9,"endTime":477.09,"body":"really important, are what are"},{"speaker":"leaves","startTime":477.09,"endTime":479.82,"body":"some of the great things that"},{"speaker":"leaves","startTime":477.09,"endTime":479.82,"body":"you had while working here, you"},{"speaker":"leaves","startTime":479.82,"endTime":481.59,"body":"know, some of the things you"},{"speaker":"leaves","startTime":479.82,"endTime":481.59,"body":"enjoyed, or some of the things"},{"speaker":"leaves","startTime":481.59,"endTime":484.8,"body":"we did particularly well as an"},{"speaker":"leaves","startTime":481.59,"endTime":484.8,"body":"employer, on the other side is"},{"speaker":"leaves","startTime":484.8,"endTime":487.92,"body":"one of the things we could have"},{"speaker":"leaves","startTime":484.8,"endTime":487.92,"body":"done better, we should have"},{"speaker":"leaves","startTime":487.92,"endTime":491.25,"body":"stopped doing or if you were sat"},{"speaker":"leaves","startTime":487.92,"endTime":491.25,"body":"in my seat, what would you have"},{"speaker":"leaves","startTime":491.25,"endTime":494.49,"body":"done differently? If you were"},{"speaker":"leaves","startTime":491.25,"endTime":494.49,"body":"the leader think that's super"},{"speaker":"leaves","startTime":494.49,"endTime":496.65,"body":"important. You know, if you"},{"speaker":"leaves","startTime":494.49,"endTime":496.65,"body":"could have my job for a day,"},{"speaker":"leaves","startTime":496.65,"endTime":499.17,"body":"what would you immediately"},{"speaker":"leaves","startTime":496.65,"endTime":499.17,"body":"change? What were some of the"},{"speaker":"leaves","startTime":499.17,"endTime":502.02,"body":"things you think we should keep"},{"speaker":"leaves","startTime":499.17,"endTime":502.02,"body":"doing that? You know, did help"},{"speaker":"leaves","startTime":502.02,"endTime":506.07,"body":"and we're good. And you would"},{"speaker":"leaves","startTime":502.02,"endTime":506.07,"body":"still speak kindly about an"},{"speaker":"leaves","startTime":506.07,"endTime":508.89,"body":"interesting question that people"},{"speaker":"leaves","startTime":506.07,"endTime":508.89,"body":"don't like to ask because"},{"speaker":"leaves","startTime":508.89,"endTime":510.93,"body":"they're afraid of the answer,"},{"speaker":"leaves","startTime":508.89,"endTime":510.93,"body":"but I think is really important"},{"speaker":"leaves","startTime":510.93,"endTime":514.4100000000001,"body":"is would you recommend a friend"},{"speaker":"leaves","startTime":510.93,"endTime":514.4100000000001,"body":"to come work here? So if"},{"speaker":"leaves","startTime":514.4100000000001,"endTime":518.25,"body":"someone's quitting, or leaving"},{"speaker":"leaves","startTime":514.4100000000001,"endTime":518.25,"body":"for whatever reason? If they"},{"speaker":"leaves","startTime":518.25,"endTime":521.8199999999999,"body":"say, No, there's something"},{"speaker":"leaves","startTime":518.25,"endTime":521.8199999999999,"body":"there? Why would they say no to"},{"speaker":"leaves","startTime":521.8199999999999,"endTime":524.73,"body":"that? If they were happy with"},{"speaker":"leaves","startTime":521.8199999999999,"endTime":524.73,"body":"it, it's kind of like you go to"},{"speaker":"leaves","startTime":524.73,"endTime":527.6700000000001,"body":"a restaurant, the food was"},{"speaker":"leaves","startTime":524.73,"endTime":527.6700000000001,"body":"great, but it's not your kind of"},{"speaker":"leaves","startTime":527.6700000000001,"endTime":531.15,"body":"food, you still recommend it,"},{"speaker":"leaves","startTime":527.6700000000001,"endTime":531.15,"body":"you'd still say, hey, you know,"},{"speaker":"leaves","startTime":531.21,"endTime":533.61,"body":"it's a great place to eat, you"},{"speaker":"leaves","startTime":531.21,"endTime":533.61,"body":"know, I'm not big into that type"},{"speaker":"leaves","startTime":533.61,"endTime":536.4300000000001,"body":"of fruit food. But whatever"},{"speaker":"leaves","startTime":533.61,"endTime":536.4300000000001,"body":"it's, you know, I'd highly"},{"speaker":"leaves","startTime":536.4300000000001,"endTime":539.94,"body":"recommend it. Same with this"},{"speaker":"leaves","startTime":536.4300000000001,"endTime":539.94,"body":"type of scenario. No, that's the"},{"speaker":"leaves","startTime":539.94,"endTime":544.05,"body":"best analogy is if someone would"},{"speaker":"leaves","startTime":539.94,"endTime":544.05,"body":"not recommend it, something's"},{"speaker":"leaves","startTime":544.05,"endTime":547.05,"body":"not resolved there. And if they"},{"speaker":"leaves","startTime":544.05,"endTime":547.05,"body":"say no, asked, Hey, look, I hope"},{"speaker":"leaves","startTime":547.05,"endTime":549.42,"body":"you don't mind me asking, you"},{"speaker":"leaves","startTime":547.05,"endTime":549.42,"body":"know, it's important for us that"},{"speaker":"leaves","startTime":549.42,"endTime":552.81,"body":"we learn from this and do the"},{"speaker":"leaves","startTime":549.42,"endTime":552.81,"body":"best we can to keep great people"},{"speaker":"leaves","startTime":552.81,"endTime":555.66,"body":"like yourself as why wouldn't"},{"speaker":"leaves","startTime":552.81,"endTime":555.66,"body":"you recommend this place to"},{"speaker":"leaves","startTime":555.66,"endTime":558.33,"body":"somebody who you know, or"},{"speaker":"leaves","startTime":555.66,"endTime":558.33,"body":"someone who's looking for a"},{"speaker":"leaves","startTime":558.33,"endTime":561.96,"body":"role? I think that's really,"},{"speaker":"leaves","startTime":558.33,"endTime":561.96,"body":"really important. So those are"},{"speaker":"leaves","startTime":561.96,"endTime":563.25,"body":"some starter questions."},{"speaker":"leaves","startTime":563.31,"endTime":566.78,"body":"There are a series of questions"},{"speaker":"leaves","startTime":563.31,"endTime":566.78,"body":"you can ask. But I think if you"},{"speaker":"leaves","startTime":566.835,"endTime":570.141,"body":"just started with those kind of"},{"speaker":"leaves","startTime":566.835,"endTime":570.141,"body":"three to five questions that"},{"speaker":"leaves","startTime":570.196,"endTime":573.501,"body":"would really help you. Now, I"},{"speaker":"leaves","startTime":570.196,"endTime":573.501,"body":"did promise you something that"},{"speaker":"leaves","startTime":573.556,"endTime":577.027,"body":"was equally powerful, and in my"},{"speaker":"leaves","startTime":573.556,"endTime":577.027,"body":"opinion, more powerful than the"},{"speaker":"leaves","startTime":577.082,"endTime":580.332,"body":"next interview and can preempt a"},{"speaker":"leaves","startTime":577.082,"endTime":580.332,"body":"lot of this stuff. In this"},{"speaker":"leaves","startTime":580.388,"endTime":583.473,"body":"example that the person gave,"},{"speaker":"leaves","startTime":580.388,"endTime":583.473,"body":"it's not necessarily a big"},{"speaker":"leaves","startTime":583.528,"endTime":586.998,"body":"problem, but I think it's worth"},{"speaker":"leaves","startTime":583.528,"endTime":586.998,"body":"mentioning today on this topic."},{"speaker":"leaves","startTime":587.053,"endTime":590.304,"body":"And that's what I call the"},{"speaker":"leaves","startTime":587.053,"endTime":590.304,"body":"staying interview. What the heck"},{"speaker":"leaves","startTime":590.359,"endTime":593.499,"body":"are you talking about? So a lot"},{"speaker":"leaves","startTime":590.359,"endTime":593.499,"body":"of good leaders will have"},{"speaker":"leaves","startTime":593.554,"endTime":596.639,"body":"coaching on a regular basis,"},{"speaker":"leaves","startTime":593.554,"endTime":596.639,"body":"they'll have ketchups, with"},{"speaker":"leaves","startTime":596.694,"endTime":600.055,"body":"their employees on a regular"},{"speaker":"leaves","startTime":596.694,"endTime":600.055,"body":"basis. Great, that's fine. Those"},{"speaker":"leaves","startTime":600.11,"endTime":603.525,"body":"are all the healthy things you"},{"speaker":"leaves","startTime":600.11,"endTime":603.525,"body":"should do. But I recommend when"},{"speaker":"leaves","startTime":603.581,"endTime":606.886,"body":"you do either your quarterly"},{"speaker":"leaves","startTime":603.581,"endTime":606.886,"body":"planning with your team or your"},{"speaker":"leaves","startTime":606.941,"endTime":610.357,"body":"individuals, sorry, as a team,"},{"speaker":"leaves","startTime":606.941,"endTime":610.357,"body":"but as individuals on the team,"},{"speaker":"leaves","startTime":610.412,"endTime":613.442,"body":"where you do your quarterly"},{"speaker":"leaves","startTime":610.412,"endTime":613.442,"body":"development planning or how"},{"speaker":"leaves","startTime":613.497,"endTime":616.857,"body":"often you do that goal setting"},{"speaker":"leaves","startTime":613.497,"endTime":616.857,"body":"with them. I'd suggest at some"},{"speaker":"leaves","startTime":616.912,"endTime":620.438,"body":"interval in that not leaving it"},{"speaker":"leaves","startTime":616.912,"endTime":620.438,"body":"for years and years, but to have"},{"speaker":"leaves","startTime":620.493,"endTime":623.799,"body":"a staying interview and to ask"},{"speaker":"leaves","startTime":620.493,"endTime":623.799,"body":"them hey, you know, I want to"},{"speaker":"leaves","startTime":623.854,"endTime":626.939,"body":"understand why do you keep"},{"speaker":"leaves","startTime":623.854,"endTime":626.939,"body":"working here? What about this"},{"speaker":"leaves","startTime":626.994,"endTime":630.354,"body":"place? Do you love? What about"},{"speaker":"leaves","startTime":626.994,"endTime":630.354,"body":"this place? Even though you're"},{"speaker":"leaves","startTime":630.41,"endTime":633.55,"body":"still here? Do you think we"},{"speaker":"leaves","startTime":630.41,"endTime":633.55,"body":"could maybe improve it If you"},{"speaker":"leaves","startTime":633.605,"endTime":636.855,"body":"were to take my role for a day"},{"speaker":"leaves","startTime":633.605,"endTime":636.855,"body":"or to be promoted up into my"},{"speaker":"leaves","startTime":636.91,"endTime":639.885,"body":"role, which is entirely"},{"speaker":"leaves","startTime":636.91,"endTime":639.885,"body":"possible, because I want to be"},{"speaker":"leaves","startTime":639.94,"endTime":643.08,"body":"promoted, you want to be"},{"speaker":"leaves","startTime":639.94,"endTime":643.08,"body":"promoted. What would you change?"},{"speaker":"leaves","startTime":643.135,"endTime":646.496,"body":"I think those questions, again,"},{"speaker":"leaves","startTime":643.135,"endTime":646.496,"body":"are similar to what you would"},{"speaker":"leaves","startTime":646.551,"endTime":649.912,"body":"hear in an exit interview. But"},{"speaker":"leaves","startTime":646.551,"endTime":649.912,"body":"the real power in this is that"},{"speaker":"leaves","startTime":649.967,"endTime":653.107,"body":"you can ask the question, learn"},{"speaker":"leaves","startTime":649.967,"endTime":653.107,"body":"the insights and make the"},{"speaker":"leaves","startTime":653.162,"endTime":656.522,"body":"changes before the person leaves"},{"speaker":"leaves","startTime":653.162,"endTime":656.522,"body":"before. So if I get insights"},{"speaker":"leaves","startTime":656.577,"endTime":660.158,"body":"that three out of my five people"},{"speaker":"leaves","startTime":656.577,"endTime":660.158,"body":"are telling me there's a problem"},{"speaker":"leaves","startTime":660.213,"endTime":663.574,"body":"with x, y, z, I should probably"},{"speaker":"leaves","startTime":660.213,"endTime":663.574,"body":"do something. And if they all"},{"speaker":"leaves","startTime":663.629,"endTime":667.045,"body":"say it's really frustrating them"},{"speaker":"leaves","startTime":663.629,"endTime":667.045,"body":"or burning them out or making"},{"speaker":"leaves","startTime":667.1,"endTime":670.24,"body":"them question what they're"},{"speaker":"leaves","startTime":667.1,"endTime":670.24,"body":"doing, I should definitely fix"},{"speaker":"leaves","startTime":670.295,"endTime":673.545,"body":"the damn thing. So I think it's"},{"speaker":"leaves","startTime":670.295,"endTime":673.545,"body":"super powerful. I've talked"},{"speaker":"leaves","startTime":673.6,"endTime":677.071,"body":"about this past in the blog and"},{"speaker":"leaves","startTime":673.6,"endTime":677.071,"body":"in our newsletter, and I cannot"},{"speaker":"leaves","startTime":677.126,"endTime":680.266,"body":"recommend enough that you're"},{"speaker":"leaves","startTime":677.126,"endTime":680.266,"body":"doing regular catch ups with"},{"speaker":"leaves","startTime":680.321,"endTime":683.407,"body":"their people to see if this is"},{"speaker":"leaves","startTime":680.321,"endTime":683.407,"body":"coming. Like the teaching"},{"speaker":"leaves","startTime":683.462,"endTime":686.877,"body":"example, I knew that person was"},{"speaker":"leaves","startTime":683.462,"endTime":686.877,"body":"going to go I knew whether you"},{"speaker":"leaves","startTime":686.932,"endTime":689.962,"body":"need degree was wrapping up the"},{"speaker":"leaves","startTime":686.932,"endTime":689.962,"body":"person with a change in"},{"speaker":"leaves","startTime":690.017,"endTime":693.378,"body":"circumstances because we had a"},{"speaker":"leaves","startTime":690.017,"endTime":693.378,"body":"good relationship that gave me"},{"speaker":"leaves","startTime":693.433,"endTime":696.738,"body":"well and truly more notice than"},{"speaker":"leaves","startTime":693.433,"endTime":696.738,"body":"was required. I looked after"},{"speaker":"leaves","startTime":696.793,"endTime":700.154,"body":"them during that period, and it"},{"speaker":"leaves","startTime":696.793,"endTime":700.154,"body":"was fine. So make sure you're"},{"speaker":"leaves","startTime":700.209,"endTime":703.625,"body":"doing those things. Make sure"},{"speaker":"leaves","startTime":700.209,"endTime":703.625,"body":"you're looking after your people"},{"speaker":"leaves","startTime":703.68,"endTime":706.875,"body":"as best you can. It's a tough"},{"speaker":"leaves","startTime":703.68,"endTime":706.875,"body":"time out there. Do your exit"},{"speaker":"leaves","startTime":706.93,"endTime":709.96,"body":"interviews, do your staying"},{"speaker":"leaves","startTime":706.93,"endTime":709.96,"body":"interviews, understand what"},{"speaker":"leaves","startTime":710.015,"endTime":713.21,"body":"those insights are and make the"},{"speaker":"leaves","startTime":710.015,"endTime":713.21,"body":"right changes to keep your"},{"speaker":"leaves","startTime":713.265,"endTime":716.461,"body":"people engaged and keep your"},{"speaker":"leaves","startTime":713.265,"endTime":716.461,"body":"business and career going and"},{"speaker":"leaves","startTime":716.516,"endTime":719.931,"body":"growing. I've been Travis your"},{"speaker":"leaves","startTime":716.516,"endTime":719.931,"body":"host. You can check out more of"},{"speaker":"leaves","startTime":719.987,"endTime":722.3,"body":"these insights, tools, tactics"},{"speaker":"leaves","startTime":719.987,"endTime":722.3,"body":"and tips at"},{"speaker":"leaves","startTime":722.355,"endTime":725.881,"body":"yeambuffalo.co/newsletter where"},{"speaker":"leaves","startTime":722.355,"endTime":725.881,"body":"you can subscribe for our weekly"},{"speaker":"leaves","startTime":725.936,"endTime":729.076,"body":"content. I look forward to"},{"speaker":"leaves","startTime":725.936,"endTime":729.076,"body":"seeing you in the next episode"},{"speaker":"leaves","startTime":729.132,"endTime":730.95,"body":"and keep being awesome. Thank you"}]}