{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":31.29,"endTime":34.26,"body":"Welcome to the"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":31.29,"endTime":34.26,"body":"Team Buffalo podcast. I'm your"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":34.26,"endTime":38.19,"body":"host, Travis Thomas. And I'm"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":34.26,"endTime":38.19,"body":"glad to be back with you again"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":38.22,"endTime":43.08,"body":"for our fifth episode in the"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":38.22,"endTime":43.08,"body":"series. Today's topic is one I"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":43.08,"endTime":48.03,"body":"absolutely love. And it has a"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":43.08,"endTime":48.03,"body":"lot to do with a problem many of"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":48.03,"endTime":50.879999999999995,"body":"you would be experiencing or"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":48.03,"endTime":50.879999999999995,"body":"have experienced in the past or"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":50.879999999999995,"endTime":53.55,"body":"see a leader around you"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":50.879999999999995,"endTime":53.55,"body":"experiencing and you go oof,"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":53.58,"endTime":56.489999999999995,"body":"that's, that's not great. How do"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":53.58,"endTime":56.489999999999995,"body":"we get out of that?"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":56.760000000000005,"endTime":62.64,"body":"Today's topic is ways in which"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":56.760000000000005,"endTime":62.64,"body":"leaders derail change. And this"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":62.64,"endTime":66.15,"body":"is a topic I cover off on often"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":62.64,"endTime":66.15,"body":"when we are working with leaders"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":66.15,"endTime":69.53999999999999,"body":"on change management programs."},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":66.15,"endTime":69.53999999999999,"body":"But also, when we're teaching"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":69.53999999999999,"endTime":73.25999999999999,"body":"leaders are workshopping how to"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":69.53999999999999,"endTime":73.25999999999999,"body":"more effectively lead change."},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":73.44,"endTime":76.2,"body":"Because look, change management"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":73.44,"endTime":76.2,"body":"is not a new principle, it's"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":76.2,"endTime":79.02000000000001,"body":"been around for a couple of"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":76.2,"endTime":79.02000000000001,"body":"decades, at a minimum, you know,"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":79.02000000000001,"endTime":83.43,"body":"Kotter talked about it many,"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":79.02000000000001,"endTime":83.43,"body":"many moons ago. And sadly, we're"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":83.43,"endTime":87.09,"body":"still pretty dismal at it. And I"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":83.43,"endTime":87.09,"body":"found if you at least understand"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":87.09,"endTime":89.78999999999999,"body":"some of the ways in which you"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":87.09,"endTime":89.78999999999999,"body":"could derail change, we can"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":89.78999999999999,"endTime":93.27000000000001,"body":"start to shape some of your"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":89.78999999999999,"endTime":93.27000000000001,"body":"change management efforts. Now,"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":93.27000000000001,"endTime":96.0,"body":"this isn't a master class, but"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":93.27000000000001,"endTime":96.0,"body":"we'll get you started with some"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":96.0,"endTime":98.7,"body":"of the warning signs. And then"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":96.0,"endTime":98.7,"body":"if you want to find out more,"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":98.7,"endTime":100.95,"body":"we'll give you some details at"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":98.7,"endTime":100.95,"body":"the end that you can just grab"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":100.98,"endTime":103.89,"body":"if you want some of the tools or"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":100.98,"endTime":103.89,"body":"practices, or if you just want"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":103.89,"endTime":105.81,"body":"to learn more about change"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":103.89,"endTime":105.81,"body":"management."},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":107.04,"endTime":112.68,"body":"Alright, so let's start with"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":107.04,"endTime":112.68,"body":"ways in which leaders derail"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":112.86,"endTime":116.79,"body":"change. And we'll start with the"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":112.86,"endTime":116.79,"body":"first one, which is my favorite"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":117.15,"endTime":122.22,"body":"and that is what I call assumed"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":117.15,"endTime":122.22,"body":"consent. It's this notion that,"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":122.25,"endTime":125.1,"body":"hey, you know, everyone was in"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":122.25,"endTime":125.1,"body":"that meeting, where we talked"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":125.1,"endTime":127.95,"body":"about this project that they"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":125.1,"endTime":127.95,"body":"probably didn't understand, and"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":127.95,"endTime":131.49,"body":"a template that no one ever"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":127.95,"endTime":131.49,"body":"uses, and in a vague way, that"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":131.49,"endTime":134.49,"body":"they probably won't even really"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":131.49,"endTime":134.49,"body":"know what you're trying to say,"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":134.79000000000002,"endTime":138.26999999999998,"body":"until it gets painful. And then"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":134.79000000000002,"endTime":138.26999999999998,"body":"what we say is, well, everyone"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":138.26999999999998,"endTime":141.66,"body":"was in the meeting, everyone saw"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":138.26999999999998,"endTime":141.66,"body":"the email after so they've"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":141.69,"endTime":146.34,"body":"agreed to the change; assumed"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":141.69,"endTime":146.34,"body":"consent. What's the problem with"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":146.34,"endTime":150.20999999999998,"body":"this? Well, you can't assume"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":146.34,"endTime":150.20999999999998,"body":"consent to a change management"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":150.20999999999998,"endTime":153.0,"body":"program, especially if it's a"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":150.20999999999998,"endTime":153.0,"body":"big change. And it's going to"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":153.0,"endTime":156.15,"body":"involve change to their jobs,"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":153.0,"endTime":156.15,"body":"their skills, all the kind of"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":156.15,"endTime":160.23,"body":"core bits and pieces that maybe"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":156.15,"endTime":160.23,"body":"are just part of their life, or"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":160.23,"endTime":163.05,"body":"a small part of their life, or"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":160.23,"endTime":163.05,"body":"are these massive things that"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":163.05,"endTime":165.99,"body":"are going to consume 90, 80,"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":163.05,"endTime":165.99,"body":"whatever percentage of their"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":165.99,"endTime":168.99,"body":"work, that's a problem, you"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":165.99,"endTime":168.99,"body":"cannot assume people are on the"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":168.99,"endTime":171.45,"body":"journey. And if it's the first"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":168.99,"endTime":171.45,"body":"time you're saying it, it's"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":171.45,"endTime":174.06,"body":"probably not going to be the"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":171.45,"endTime":174.06,"body":"only time and it's probably not"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":174.15,"endTime":177.66,"body":"even going to have landed with"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":174.15,"endTime":177.66,"body":"most people. So that's wrong."},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":179.24,"endTime":183.44,"body":"The second one is the thing I"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":179.24,"endTime":183.44,"body":"call flipping the switch. You"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":183.44,"endTime":186.41,"body":"know, what we didn't really"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":183.44,"endTime":186.41,"body":"communicate with people what the"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":186.41,"endTime":189.41,"body":"change was, we didn't really go"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":186.41,"endTime":189.41,"body":"into a great level of detail"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":189.41,"endTime":192.53,"body":"about that change. But guess"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":189.41,"endTime":192.53,"body":"what, we flipped the switch,"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":192.56,"endTime":196.01,"body":"it's ready, it's live, they're"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":192.56,"endTime":196.01,"body":"going to be keen, it's all done,"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":196.4,"endTime":199.91,"body":"you are out of your mind, if you"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":196.4,"endTime":199.91,"body":"think that the simple act of"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":199.94,"endTime":203.45,"body":"turning on a new system or"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":199.94,"endTime":203.45,"body":"implementing some new procedures"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":203.45,"endTime":207.29,"body":"is going to lead to change. The"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":203.45,"endTime":207.29,"body":"switch flip is not the change,"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":207.32,"endTime":210.89,"body":"the change comes from the"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":207.32,"endTime":210.89,"body":"behavior that comes with it. So"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":210.89,"endTime":214.04,"body":"you really need to be cognizant"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":210.89,"endTime":214.04,"body":"that change management involves"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":214.04,"endTime":218.69,"body":"a whole lot of work way up early"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":214.04,"endTime":218.69,"body":"in the pace. And leading change"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":218.69,"endTime":223.43,"body":"effectively involves even more"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":218.69,"endTime":223.43,"body":"work. So don't assume that"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":223.43,"endTime":226.97,"body":"flipping the switch is going to"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":223.43,"endTime":226.97,"body":"get you there. Now next is what"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":226.97,"endTime":232.55,"body":"I call the pain free plan. And"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":226.97,"endTime":232.55,"body":"this one, it's always a bit of a"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":232.55,"endTime":235.82,"body":"crack up and sad, right? Because"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":232.55,"endTime":235.82,"body":"you you go through this effort,"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":235.82,"endTime":240.08,"body":"and you see people thinking it"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":235.82,"endTime":240.08,"body":"will work, it doesn't. So the"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":240.08,"endTime":243.89,"body":"pain free plan, I've heard this"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":240.08,"endTime":243.89,"body":"a bunch of times is we've got a"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":243.89,"endTime":247.25,"body":"plan, we just need to follow it."},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":243.89,"endTime":247.25,"body":"Everything will be done on time"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":247.28,"endTime":248.18,"body":"and on budget."},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":248.96,"endTime":252.2,"body":"When's the last time you were"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":248.96,"endTime":252.2,"body":"involved in a successful change"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":252.2,"endTime":256.28,"body":"management program that was done"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":252.2,"endTime":256.28,"body":"on time, on budget and with very"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":256.28,"endTime":259.49,"body":"little resistance, it doesn't"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":256.28,"endTime":259.49,"body":"happen humans, we make things"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":259.49,"endTime":263.0,"body":"hard. Yes, you can do things to"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":259.49,"endTime":263.0,"body":"reduce that pain. Obviously, we"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":263.0,"endTime":266.9,"body":"can provide you some tips and"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":263.0,"endTime":266.9,"body":"insights on that. But the"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":267.77,"endTime":271.94,"body":"expectation that there's no pain"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":267.77,"endTime":271.94,"body":"or that you've got a plan, and"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":271.94,"endTime":274.66999999999996,"body":"it's just going to be perfect is"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":271.94,"endTime":274.66999999999996,"body":"madness, that's never going to"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":274.66999999999996,"endTime":277.28,"body":"happen. So you need to assume in"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":274.66999999999996,"endTime":277.28,"body":"your plan, that there will be"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":277.28,"endTime":280.58000000000004,"body":"resistance, and you need to use"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":277.28,"endTime":280.58000000000004,"body":"tools to build against that"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":280.58000000000004,"endTime":282.05,"body":"resistance and move it along."},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":283.1,"endTime":286.88,"body":"Now the next one is what I call"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":283.1,"endTime":286.88,"body":"the hero. And this is where it"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":286.88,"endTime":289.85,"body":"starts to get a little bit of"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":286.88,"endTime":289.85,"body":"oh, we're gonna have some real"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":289.85,"endTime":292.52,"body":"challenges if leaders are saying"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":289.85,"endTime":292.52,"body":"these things. And if you find"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":292.52,"endTime":295.67,"body":"yourself saying these things,"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":292.52,"endTime":295.67,"body":"you really got to take some time"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":295.67,"endTime":299.51,"body":"to reflect and go, Can I Can I"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":295.67,"endTime":299.51,"body":"really want can I believe that?"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":299.54,"endTime":305.81,"body":"No, not possibly. The hero often"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":299.54,"endTime":305.81,"body":"says things like the new leader,"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":305.87,"endTime":308.87,"body":"expert, team member, whoever"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":305.87,"endTime":308.87,"body":"we're bringing in as a"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":308.87,"endTime":312.41,"body":"specialist talent. The poor,"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":308.87,"endTime":312.41,"body":"lowly consultant or coach, or"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":312.41,"endTime":317.18,"body":"the leader themselves will sort"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":312.41,"endTime":317.18,"body":"all of this out for us that one"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":317.18,"endTime":320.66,"body":"person will be the hero to pull"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":317.18,"endTime":320.66,"body":"us out of change management"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":320.66,"endTime":325.43,"body":"Hell, no way. That doesn't"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":320.66,"endTime":325.43,"body":"doesn't work that way. You can't"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":325.43,"endTime":330.05,"body":"expect that one person can come"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":325.43,"endTime":330.05,"body":"into an organization of any size"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":330.05,"endTime":334.4,"body":"from 50 to 5000 employees and"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":330.05,"endTime":334.4,"body":"go, You know what guys got the"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":334.4,"endTime":338.72,"body":"plan, gonna roll it out, we'll"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":334.4,"endTime":338.72,"body":"be sorted. It doesn't work that"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":338.72,"endTime":342.5,"body":"way. It requires conscious,"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":338.72,"endTime":342.5,"body":"coordinated effort across a"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":342.5,"endTime":345.35,"body":"number of leaders to really lead"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":342.5,"endTime":345.35,"body":"change effectively."},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":346.52,"endTime":350.09,"body":"But even worse than the heroes,"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":346.52,"endTime":350.09,"body":"this next thing that I often"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":350.09,"endTime":353.84,"body":"hear and see from leaders in"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":350.09,"endTime":353.84,"body":"terms of how they derail change,"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":353.99,"endTime":358.31,"body":"and that is one of the darkest"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":353.99,"endTime":358.31,"body":"forms of leadership, the"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":358.31,"endTime":363.35,"body":"dictator. It's, I've told them,"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":358.31,"endTime":363.35,"body":"and they don't have a choice,"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":363.5,"endTime":368.06,"body":"they'll do what I say. Oh, that"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":363.5,"endTime":368.06,"body":"worked well, for a number of"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":368.06,"endTime":372.26,"body":"leaders throughout history, hey?"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":368.06,"endTime":372.26,"body":"This idea that I can just"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":372.29,"endTime":377.72,"body":"mandate or dictate to the people"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":372.29,"endTime":377.72,"body":"working here that is what you're"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":377.72,"endTime":380.81,"body":"going to do, you're going to do"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":377.72,"endTime":380.81,"body":"what I tell you. I'm in charge,"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":380.84,"endTime":385.55,"body":"I'm the boss, and you better get"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":380.84,"endTime":385.55,"body":"on board. Yeah. Okay. Well, I"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":385.55,"endTime":388.22,"body":"look forward to hearing how that"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":385.55,"endTime":388.22,"body":"pans out for you. You can't do"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":388.22,"endTime":388.61,"body":"that."},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":389.28,"endTime":394.17,"body":"There's a number of reasons"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":389.28,"endTime":394.17,"body":"right? The first is, why hire"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":394.17,"endTime":398.22,"body":"intelligent people who are"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":394.17,"endTime":398.22,"body":"highly skilled, who are, you"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":398.22,"endTime":400.5,"body":"know, creative, or whatever"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":398.22,"endTime":400.5,"body":"skill set you've brought into"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":400.5,"endTime":403.89,"body":"this who are good at what they"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":400.5,"endTime":403.89,"body":"do, right? And tell them what to"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":403.89,"endTime":407.49,"body":"do. That's just bonkers to me,"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":403.89,"endTime":407.49,"body":"You hired intelligent people who"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":407.49,"endTime":411.39,"body":"can lead these things alongside"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":407.49,"endTime":411.39,"body":"you, why dictate how they should"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":411.39,"endTime":412.2,"body":"do what they do?"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":413.37,"endTime":418.02,"body":"The second is, when people sense"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":413.37,"endTime":418.02,"body":"that you're a dictator, and that"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":418.02,"endTime":420.15,"body":"you're going to hold them to a"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":418.02,"endTime":420.15,"body":"standard that you don't hold"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":420.15,"endTime":422.34,"body":"yourself to, or you're going to"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":420.15,"endTime":422.34,"body":"be aggressive in that"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":422.34,"endTime":425.58,"body":"management, they start to do"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":422.34,"endTime":425.58,"body":"something really, really"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":425.58,"endTime":428.91,"body":"terrible. And it's completely"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":425.58,"endTime":428.91,"body":"your fault if you're the one"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":428.91,"endTime":433.65,"body":"doing this, but they start to"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":428.91,"endTime":433.65,"body":"plot your demise. They start to"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":433.65,"endTime":436.53,"body":"wonder, well, one, should I"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":433.65,"endTime":436.53,"body":"continue to work here as an"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":436.53,"endTime":440.1,"body":"employee? And two, if I do, how"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":436.53,"endTime":440.1,"body":"do I get Joe, Sally, whoever, as"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":440.1,"endTime":443.01,"body":"the leader, who's dictating all"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":440.1,"endTime":443.01,"body":"this crap that they don't even"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":443.01,"endTime":446.19,"body":"do themselves out of here? You"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":443.01,"endTime":446.19,"body":"know, do we bandy against them?"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":446.19,"endTime":449.73,"body":"Do we raise formal complaints?"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":446.19,"endTime":449.73,"body":"Do we contact ministers to block"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":449.73,"endTime":453.18,"body":"all this? What's the thing we do"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":449.73,"endTime":453.18,"body":"to stop this change from"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":453.18,"endTime":453.78,"body":"happening?"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":454.32,"endTime":458.37,"body":"And then the last one, which you"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":454.32,"endTime":458.37,"body":"can put in the same bucket, as"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":458.37,"endTime":461.7,"body":"the dictator in terms of"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":458.37,"endTime":461.7,"body":"detriment to those involved, and"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":461.7,"endTime":465.51,"body":"impact, it's not as outright"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":461.7,"endTime":465.51,"body":"aggressive, but it is almost"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":465.51,"endTime":469.95,"body":"equally destructive. And that is"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":465.51,"endTime":469.95,"body":"what I call the victim. The"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":469.95,"endTime":474.15,"body":"leader who is the victim, and"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":469.95,"endTime":474.15,"body":"they turn to their staff, to"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":474.15,"endTime":476.79,"body":"their team, to the whole"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":474.15,"endTime":476.79,"body":"organization, if they're the"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":476.79,"endTime":481.35,"body":"CEO, and they say, Look, this is"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":476.79,"endTime":481.35,"body":"happening to all of us. So we"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":481.38,"endTime":484.98,"body":"just have to go along with it."},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":481.38,"endTime":484.98,"body":"It wasn't my decision."},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":486.01,"endTime":493.09,"body":"That is such a terrible position"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":486.01,"endTime":493.09,"body":"to adopt. Terrible. So many"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":493.09,"endTime":495.49,"body":"layers of problems with that,"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":493.09,"endTime":495.49,"body":"you can probably already think"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":495.49,"endTime":499.69,"body":"of some. But first is this is"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":495.49,"endTime":499.69,"body":"happening to all of us does not"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":499.69,"endTime":504.07,"body":"convey empathy conveys a level"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":499.69,"endTime":504.07,"body":"of expectation that they"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":504.07,"endTime":508.3,"body":"diminish the value of their own"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":504.07,"endTime":508.3,"body":"pain to relate to you. Look, I'm"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":508.3,"endTime":511.27,"body":"okay with it, it's happening to"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":508.3,"endTime":511.27,"body":"me, too, you should just be okay"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":511.27,"endTime":516.79,"body":"with it. Faulty logic. And that"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":511.27,"endTime":516.79,"body":"just pisses people off. Then the"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":516.79,"endTime":520.36,"body":"second part, which is we just"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":516.79,"endTime":520.36,"body":"have to go along with it, then"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":520.36,"endTime":523.87,"body":"helps us understand that well,"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":520.36,"endTime":523.87,"body":"you know, actually, you're kind"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":523.87,"endTime":528.49,"body":"of a weak leader, Hey? You think"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":523.87,"endTime":528.49,"body":"that we should just go along"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":528.49,"endTime":531.0699999999999,"body":"with something that you've even"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":528.49,"endTime":531.0699999999999,"body":"said is happening to all of us,"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":531.0699999999999,"endTime":535.06,"body":"which means it's not a great"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":531.0699999999999,"endTime":535.06,"body":"thing. And you have no sway over"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":535.21,"endTime":538.3,"body":"us and influence and everyone"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":535.21,"endTime":538.3,"body":"else, which then backs up"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":538.3,"endTime":542.38,"body":"against that statement, it"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":538.3,"endTime":542.38,"body":"wasn't my decision. Horrible. If"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":542.38,"endTime":545.05,"body":"it wasn't your decision, but you"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":542.38,"endTime":545.05,"body":"don't agree with it, you have"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":545.05,"endTime":547.84,"body":"two choices as a leader, either"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":545.05,"endTime":547.84,"body":"don't tell us it wasn't your"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":547.84,"endTime":550.9,"body":"decision and fully get behind it"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":547.84,"endTime":550.9,"body":"and help make it happen. Help us"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":550.9,"endTime":555.01,"body":"see the way or go back and fight"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":550.9,"endTime":555.01,"body":"whoever is pushing this decision"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":555.01,"endTime":557.95,"body":"upon us. But you cannot face"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":555.01,"endTime":557.95,"body":"your team and say, it's"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":557.95,"endTime":560.47,"body":"happening to all of us just have"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":557.95,"endTime":560.47,"body":"to go along with it. And by the"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":560.47,"endTime":562.0,"body":"way, it wasn't really my"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":560.47,"endTime":562.0,"body":"decision."},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":562.36,"endTime":567.46,"body":"Weak a$$ leadership. And we do"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":562.36,"endTime":567.46,"body":"not want that people do not"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":567.46,"endTime":569.74,"body":"follow weak a$$ leaders. And"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":567.46,"endTime":569.74,"body":"they sure as hell don't stay at"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":569.74,"endTime":573.28,"body":"companies, where you've got weak"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":569.74,"endTime":573.28,"body":"leaders. We talked a lot in our"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":573.28,"endTime":578.11,"body":"last episode around the need to"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":573.28,"endTime":578.11,"body":"retain top talent, and how the"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":578.11,"endTime":581.32,"body":"talent wars are really going"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":578.11,"endTime":581.32,"body":"off. You know, every client I've"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":581.32,"endTime":584.68,"body":"got at the moment is struggling"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":581.32,"endTime":584.68,"body":"to find people. So if you think"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":584.68,"endTime":588.04,"body":"that having that type of"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":584.68,"endTime":588.04,"body":"leadership set and mindset"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":588.04,"endTime":589.96,"body":"around leadership is going to"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":588.04,"endTime":589.96,"body":"get you what you need, and"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":589.96,"endTime":593.5,"body":"retain top people you are out of"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":589.96,"endTime":593.5,"body":"your mind. But I know that's not"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":593.5,"endTime":595.06,"body":"you, because you're listening to"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":593.5,"endTime":595.06,"body":"this."},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":595.5,"endTime":599.01,"body":"So knowing all of these types of"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":595.5,"endTime":599.01,"body":"ways that leaders derail change,"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":599.31,"endTime":603.3,"body":"what can you do? Well, there are"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":599.31,"endTime":603.3,"body":"a few things. The first is if"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":603.3,"endTime":606.69,"body":"it's you, please take some time"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":603.3,"endTime":606.69,"body":"to look at the way in which"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":606.69,"endTime":611.37,"body":"you're managing change, and find"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":606.69,"endTime":611.37,"body":"a better way to do that. The"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":611.37,"endTime":615.18,"body":"second is if it's not you, or it"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":611.37,"endTime":615.18,"body":"was you and you've addressed it,"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":615.9,"endTime":620.04,"body":"look at how is this happening?"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":615.9,"endTime":620.04,"body":"How are we getting to this place"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":620.04,"endTime":624.33,"body":"in our organization and what can"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":620.04,"endTime":624.33,"body":"I do to meaningfully affect"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":624.36,"endTime":628.08,"body":"change? You can't let this be"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":624.36,"endTime":628.08,"body":"the culture around change"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":628.08,"endTime":630.99,"body":"management, and it's not change"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":628.08,"endTime":630.99,"body":"leadership when that's happening"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":630.99,"endTime":634.44,"body":"if you're just letting it happen"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":630.99,"endTime":634.44,"body":"to you. It's poor, you have to"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":634.44,"endTime":638.01,"body":"be the voice. Even if it's the"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":634.44,"endTime":638.01,"body":"only voice against the"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":638.01,"endTime":640.29,"body":"oppression of terrible change."},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":640.68,"endTime":644.22,"body":"You have to fight back against"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":640.68,"endTime":644.22,"body":"this. And I guarantee you if you"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":644.22,"endTime":647.46,"body":"do, if you find ways to win the"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":644.22,"endTime":647.46,"body":"hearts and minds of the people"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":647.46,"endTime":651.36,"body":"around you, and to push back on"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":647.46,"endTime":651.36,"body":"unreasonable change, you will"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":651.36,"endTime":655.14,"body":"garner such a great loyalty and"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":651.36,"endTime":655.14,"body":"following and trust from your"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":655.14,"endTime":658.95,"body":"team, that any future changes"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":655.14,"endTime":658.95,"body":"will become significantly"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":659.04,"endTime":662.22,"body":"easier. And when you do have to"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":659.04,"endTime":662.22,"body":"call on them to do changes that"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":662.22,"endTime":665.04,"body":"you don't agree with. You won't"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":662.22,"endTime":665.04,"body":"have told them that but they"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":665.04,"endTime":666.33,"body":"will still support you."},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":667.32,"endTime":673.65,"body":"So I challenge you to be that"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":667.32,"endTime":673.65,"body":"strong, bullish, unrelenting"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":673.65,"endTime":677.49,"body":"leader regardless of if you're a"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":673.65,"endTime":677.49,"body":"frontline leader through to CEO,"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":677.67,"endTime":681.45,"body":"what background you come from,"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":677.67,"endTime":681.45,"body":"what skill set you have. I"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":681.45,"endTime":686.4,"body":"challenge you to be that leader"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":681.45,"endTime":686.4,"body":"that pushes back on these ways"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":686.4,"endTime":689.22,"body":"that leaders are derailing"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":686.4,"endTime":689.22,"body":"change, and starts to show"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":689.22,"endTime":691.95,"body":"people that actually you can"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":689.22,"endTime":691.95,"body":"work in great organizations,"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":691.95,"endTime":696.75,"body":"great companies, great startups,"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":691.95,"endTime":696.75,"body":"where change is normal, but it's"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":696.75,"endTime":699.36,"body":"not unnecessarily painful."},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":700.7,"endTime":704.15,"body":"Thanks for listening to today's"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":700.7,"endTime":704.15,"body":"episode. I hope you got some"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":704.15,"endTime":707.42,"body":"great self reflection out of the"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":704.15,"endTime":707.42,"body":"things we covered off on today."},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":707.9,"endTime":711.86,"body":"Now if you'd like some more tips"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":707.9,"endTime":711.86,"body":"or tools, or if you'd like that,"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":711.86,"endTime":714.38,"body":"list sent through to you about"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":711.86,"endTime":714.38,"body":"the ways in which leaders derail"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":714.38,"endTime":723.08,"body":"change. You can email us at"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":714.38,"endTime":723.08,"body":"admin at teambuffalo.co or you"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":723.08,"endTime":726.23,"body":"can hit us up on any socials,"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":723.08,"endTime":726.23,"body":"LinkedIn, etc."},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":726.65,"endTime":729.47,"body":"I look forward to seeing you in"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":726.65,"endTime":729.47,"body":"the next episode and keep being"},{"speaker":"Travis Thomas","startTime":729.5,"endTime":731.0,"body":"a kick a$$ leader."}]}