Mara Lehmann: What if we included nature in decision-making?

In this episode of the Impact Series, Ronny Eriksson interviews Mara Lehmann, a self-proclaimed data nerd and pragmatic activist who is on a mission to bring non-human voices into the conversation. 

As the founder of Tumblebee, Mara envisions a future where data from ecosystems and nature play a crucial role in decision-making processes across industries. They discuss the challenges of integrating multi-source data to understand nature's needs, the role of empathy in sustainability, and how even small changes in mindset can have a big impact on our world. 

Explore how curiosity, technology, and a holistic perspective can transform how we approach conservation and sustainability.

Transcript

Ronny Eriksson: [Music plays] Species revealing to them how their activities impact their environment and providing actionable steps for their conservation. Your work seems to be anchored in using software and data to maximize positive impact. At your core, you're a pragmatic activist, data nerd, and nature lover. It’s really beautiful to have you here today. Welcome!

Mara Lehmann: Thank you for having me! It was an unexpected turn of the morning.

Ronny: It was indeed! I love when someone joins last minute and brings a bit of surprise because those conversations tend to become the most beautiful ones. You don’t know what to expect, and it often leads to a richer conversation.

Each of these episodes normally starts with a broad, big “what if” question, which aligns with the theme of this podcast. So, to start off, I’m going to throw you into the deep end and let’s take the conversation from there: What if we included non-humans right from the start in decision-making?

Mara: I think this is a question we are actively working on at Tumblebee. If we were to do that, in every way—whether for physical products, investment decisions, or anything else—we would end up with a more conscious way of designing, using, selling, and buying everything. This, in turn, would lead to a truly sustainable world.

Ronny: So, in essence, if we approached the world from a more holistic perspective, we would acknowledge that humans are only a small part of a larger ecosystem. Often, we make decisions without considering the impact on non-human entities. It’s like how cities or organizations sometimes fail to ask their citizens for input. Imagine the scale of that issue when it extends beyond humans to include animals, plants, and other parts of our ecosystem.

Mara: Absolutely. Right now, most companies don’t have that mindset. Many are still struggling to adopt a user-centered or customer-centered approach, let alone an ecosystem-centered one. It's challenging and data-heavy.

Ronny: It’s interesting because it’s not an easy thing to translate. How do you convey to CEOs or leaders what the birds, trees, or soil are saying? How do you communicate that?

Mara: We’re still figuring that out, to be honest. I can’t give a definitive answer yet, but we know that we’re taking a multi-data source approach. We want to include alternative data, and maybe even data that is traditionally transmitted orally. I don’t yet know how we will capture that, but we’re working on it. We’re looking at data in three ways: how things are now, how they were in the past, and how they could be in the future. That way, we can take into account the changes over time.

Ronny: So, it’s mostly about data gathering and analysis to understand complex ecosystems. How did you get into this field?

Mara: At first, I thought I had no idea, but that’s not true! I’ve been obsessing over ingredients and materials for a long time. I always want to know what something is made of, where it comes from, and how it impacts the ecosystem. This includes not just human health, but also the health of other species. I’ve been doing this privately, probably annoying my friends by telling them why they shouldn’t use certain products. But now, it feels like a natural transition to bring that holistic perspective into a more structured approach.

Ronny: I love that. I think the first step toward making an impact is genuine curiosity. And it seems like that’s what drives you—this deep desire to understand how things work.

Mara: Exactly. And often, people don’t even think to ask those questions. Just explaining why it’s important to include non-human entities in decision-making can already shift perspectives.

Ronny: Are there others doing similar work? Are you pioneers in this space?

Mara: I’m sure there are others out there, but the world is vast, and I can’t know everything. However, there are two organizations that caught my attention. One is Swissnex, which is rethinking how diplomacy works. They’re exploring how to include non-human voices in decision-making. The other is IDEO, which published a blog about using creative AI for speculative design exercises.

Ronny: It’s fascinating to think about giving a voice to non-human entities. It almost sounds like sci-fi. But when you break it down, it’s really about understanding their needs and translating them into a language humans can act upon.

Mara: Yes, exactly. My hope is that by giving non-human entities a “voice,” it becomes harder to ignore their needs. Maybe it’s easier to ignore numbers on a report than it is to ignore a simulated voice or personality representing nature.

Ronny: That’s a powerful idea. It’s like when you give emotions or a face to something, people are more likely to care. It could change behavior if, for example, a river could express how pollution affects it.

Mara: Yes, and we don’t want this to be all doom and gloom. Focusing solely on the negative can induce anxiety and depression. Instead, we want to highlight positive actions and how they can help ecosystems thrive. It’s like the Tamagotchi pets we had as kids—making it playful and engaging.

Ronny: That’s a great analogy. Imagine if we had something like that for nature—a plant that shows happiness when it’s taken care of properly. I can see how that could change behaviors and decisions.

Mara: Exactly! It’s about making it accessible and engaging for people, so they don’t have to be experts to make better decisions.

Ronny: What’s next for you and Tumblebee? How do you envision the world in 5, 10, or even 50 years?

Mara: In the short term, we’re in the early stages of building our first prototypes. We’ll need to raise funding to support our vision, especially since technology and data collection are expensive. Longer term, I hope to see our tool integrated into the design processes of companies, helping them make better decisions that take nature into account from the start. It should be as simple as using email or Slack—just part of the workflow.

Ronny: That’s an amazing vision. I’m glad you’re here at Katapult Future Fest. There are many potential collaborators and investors who would be excited about what you’re doing.

Mara: Thank you! I’m really happy to be here and to meet people who share this vision. It gives me hope that we can build something truly impactful together.

Ronny: This whole event is about helping people like you create the impact they envision. I wish you a great time here and hope you find exactly what you’re looking for.

Mara: Thank you! It’s been a really lovely conversation.

Ronny: Likewise, Mara. Thank you so much for joining us!