#103: Why Acid Is a Game Changer in Your Cooking

We’re back with another episode in our Salt, Fat, Acid, Heat series, and this week it’s all about Acid! Acid is the unsung hero of flavor - it brightens, balances, and brings depth to your dishes. 

In this episode, we dive into the science of acid in cooking (and how it shocked us!), how it affects the color and texture of foods, and why it's called salt's "alter ego".

You’ll also learn:

• The most common types of acid used in cooking
• How to layer acid for a flavor-balanced meal
• Why acid is key to elevating even the simplest dishes

And as always, we wrap up with a few Dinner Dilemmas - real questions from you about meal planning and home cooking.

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Transcript

[00:00:00] I'm Riley and I'm Roni. And this is the plan to eat podcast, where we have conversations about meal planning, food, and wellness. To help you answer the question what's for dinner. 

Roni: Hello and welcome to another episode of The Plan Eat Podcast. We're back with another episode where we are doing our book club breakdown of Salt, fat, acid, heat. And today we're talking about acid.

Riley: I am very excited about this chapter. I think this chapter like rival salt for how geeky I got about it.

Roni: I really enjoyed salt. I really liked that chapter. I might have liked this chapter more, just 'cause I think I learned more in it acid is for me, it feels like the forgotten ingredient in so much. And she kinda talks about that in the beginning of the chapter. She talks about like the idea of like American Thanksgiving and how everything is, I don't wanna [00:01:00] necessarily say bland, but nothing has like an exciting or a bright flavor.

Like everything is just kind of like middle of the road, you know?

Riley: She said that's why everyone reached for the cranberry sauce, because it gives a punch that nothing else gives. And it's like, when I think about Thanksgiving, it's just very rich. You know, it's like a lot of like, um, probably a lot more of umami, like a lot of savory, even dessert gets, I mean, pumpkin pie, like, I feel like that's like the one of cheesecake, like things that people eat at Thanksgiving.

There is all, is the same level as the side dishes.

Roni: Mm-hmm.

Riley: It's rich flavor.

Roni: Yeah, I actually, it was interesting right after I read this chapter, it was like maybe the next night we went out to dinner and I had a hamburger at the restaurant that we were at and had sweet potato fries with it. And it's one of those places where they don't like give you condiments for your things 'cause it's like they're trying to be fancy.

So they didn't give me ketchup or anything. And I got about halfway through the meal and realized. [00:02:00] There was nothing in the meal that was super exciting and I needed something like ketchup to add that acidic flavor. I don't think that I would've had that connection and if I hadn't just read this chapter, but it was just that realization of like, this food is a little boring without something to just like brighten it up, you know?

Riley: It's like, um, for me, I felt like I have felt this way before, but this was the light switch like it turned on for me in my mind. Oh. That thing that I lack sometimes is asked if I don't realize it. And I am a person who likes acidic foods, like I really like pickles.

Roni: I know.

Riley: I led you into that one. I really like. I really like, like vinegar, things like, I mean, a lot of the recipes she talks about in this chapter, like those are foods that I, I like tomato-based sauces. Like, um, I really [00:03:00] like, I like lots of lime on my tacos. And so like I lean that way and, but I have never, for whatever reason, just it's like a light bulb of oh, like when something isn't quite right.

Try acid because salt there, the flavor's there, it's just something feels off. And like adding a tablespoon of vinegar to something feels like the most wrong thing you could possibly do. But she says this is the exact right thing to do in a lot of circumstances.

Roni: Yeah. I've also found it very eye-opening in that regard and would totally agree that I think acid is a often a missing component in meals that I make maybe there would be like an acidic component in a recipe or, I'm just trying to think of things that are, uh, like soups or stews or casseroles, things like that.

A lot of times I feel like those are the things where I'm not. Thinking about the acidic component, whereas if I'm making something like a salad or a vegetable-based dish, I'm almost always add an acid to that. You know, [00:04:00] if I'm making asparagus or something, it always gets lemon. So, so there's like some things that I feel like maybe are more intuitive about this, that I didn't realize before reading this chapter.

Riley: Totally.

Roni: So I've got a summary here if you want me to read it.

Riley: I'm ready.

Roni: Acid is salt's alter ego. While salt enhances flavor, acid balances it, acid offers contrast that heightens our pleasure of food. Pure acid tastes sour, and any food or substance that registers below a seven on the pH scale is considered an acid. Common sources of acid and cooking are citrus, juices, vinegar, wine, tangy condiments, like ketchup and hot sauce, tomatoes, olives, and cultured dairy like buttermilk and yogurt.

But that is just to name a few.

Riley: I'm so glad you gave that list, and that was a beautiful summary, by the way. It, I love, I'm so glad you gave that list at the, the beginning because I think it's helpful for anyone who's moving through this chapter with us on this [00:05:00] podcast to have an idea of what we're talking about instead of just thinking that we're pouring, I don't know, vinegar into something,

Roni: Or lemon juice. You always want lemon juice or something. It's not always lemon juice.

Riley: Like pickle juice, like, or you know, like whatever your mind went to when we said acid. Um, I just, I felt like it was really helpful to get everyone on the same page because there's a lot more things that are acid, than like we might immediately think so.

Roni: And there's a lot of things in this chapter that she labels that I had no idea chocolate's considered an acid. Um, you know, beer is considered an acid. What's it called? Cured meats are considered acids, honey and molasses are considered acid.

Riley: Caramel.

Roni: Yes,

Riley: I was shocked. I did not know caramel was considered an acid.

Roni: know there was, yeah, there some of those things were things that were really eyeopening to me.

Uh, I have something that really blew my mind away. We're gonna get to it, but there was one thing that I was like, oh [00:06:00] wow, this, whoa, okay. This totally changes my perspective. So like fat, um, acid is one of those ingredients that ha is a more, uh, geographical component of a recipe.

So the geography or maybe a specific cooking tradition can kind of guide what acid you would use in a recipe similar to what we talked about with fat, where certain regions use certain fats specifically.

Riley: So let's jump into that for just a second. 'cause I think that it's helpful to kind of break down like what we mean by that. I also find this part of the chapter one of the most beautiful parts, right? Um, because. As you learn, this book feels like it could be for anyone in the cooking spectrum. Like I've never cooked before.

I'm trying to learn, or I've been a cook for a long time and just trying to get better. And in particular the, when you're talking about foods from other cultures, being very specific about the salt you use, about the, the fat you use and about the acid you use. Can take, let's just, most [00:07:00] of our listeners are in America, and so like.

The ability to access a lot of like, uh, seasonings and flavors from other cultures. Like, we can get close, but we might not be there, you know, and like grocery stores, like what you can get in the grocery store is limited, but when you can get the right acid, the right fat, like, it just gets you a little closer to flavors that are more, accurate to how they would be cooked in another culture.

Um, which I think is a really beautiful thing. 'cause it just, it just gets you a little closer, which makes your meal taste better.

Roni: Totally. 

Riley: You said this in your intro and I just wanna come back to it again. 'cause I thought it was so for, so profound. But she said that acid assaults, alter ego, salt enhances flavor and acid balances them. Um, and she, another thing she said is that acid grants the palate relief.

It makes more, it makes it more appealing. It offers contrast. Um, it might be why you like sour cream on something, um, might be why you, I, I, I feel like I'm trying to help people understand what acid brings to food. [00:08:00] And I think our bodies are drawn to it, even though we might not know. It's why we want it, right?

Like it's like the sour cream on something or, or pickles or olives on a Mediterranean dish. Like you can't do it without them because it just gives that little bit of pop. , and I, I, I just, I love those kinds of ingredients. So like I'm really into this chapter and I, I just think. It's a beautiful thing to like give food brightness, like I have said this before, something about this recipe needs to be brightened and, and if you are someone who is not a very, like if you're new to the kitchen, then if I told you it needs to be brighter, you might have no idea what that meant.

But now, after like talking through and reading through this chapter, I feel like it just opens up like bright means acid, it just needs something acidic and it doesn't. Um, it just needs something to like, make it more enhanced, right? Like the flavors are there, but it just needs to be a, it has a little pop on your palette, which I really love.

Roni: Yeah. The thing that I really [00:09:00] liked about that whole idea is the idea of con, it's the contrast, which I think goes back to what I was trying to say about her comparison of traditional American Thanksgiving, is that there's not anything in there that really gives a lot of contrast.

If everything that you're making is just with butter, um, you know, and you're not adding things like sour cream into your mashed potatoes, or what does she say? She mentions adding white a splash of white wine into your gravy. If you're just making everything just like butter and salt and butter and salt, it ends up just, there's no contrast to it, and it all feels like it.

It's all the kind of the same, you know? Mm-hmm.

Riley: Yeah, on this topic it's what makes sourdough like fermented. You talked about fermented dairy, but fermented bread, um, or even sauerkraut, like fermented foods are also acidic. And if you are. Or someone who really likes sourdough bread, you probably like it because of the tang. And the tang is acid and it's all about the fermentation. She goes into [00:10:00] quite a bit of information about cooking foods in acid and what the chemical reaction actually is, which I found to be also very fascinating. I love this book in case you were wondering. Like some foods, if you cook them in something like, let's just, I think her example was onions cooked in tomatoes, they might never cook because the tomatoes are an acid.

And so they don't let the onions cook. And so you cook those components first. You wanna cook food slowly in acid. Or cook foods cooked slowly in acid. So if something needs to be cooked all the way you, or if you need to cook it fast, it needs to be cooked first before you add your acid in. You wanna cook your vegetables all the way before you add acid most of the time because of what it will do to them.

Make them tougher. Or, um, like beans, like she gives an example with beans that if you add acid to beans, it will make them super tough, even if they were fully cooked. Just, just, um, like these kinds of things are [00:11:00] ridiculously helpful.

Roni: So two things to say related to that. Number one is if you overcook your beans and you need 'em to be a little firmer, well, not a little acid. Uh, the second thing is, this really brought a lot of clarity to. My cooking as far as like when you read a recipe, they always say like, put your onions in the, in the pot first.

You know, simmer your onions and butter or whatever, saute your onions first. And I had no idea that the reason that you did that first is because they wouldn't cook later if you just put everything together. So it just. Learning these things, it just all of a sudden makes sense why recipes are written a specific way, right?

Like following a recipe 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 makes a lot more sense when you actually understand that there's, oh, there's like science that's happening behind it.

Riley: Yes. Again, I'm being, I'm being, reminded that cooking is science. Um. Yeah, you're right. It really does. It gives, I think if you're someone who [00:12:00] needs to know why something happens, and I'm, I'm kind of like that. I'm like, well, but why do I need to do that first? I'm just gonna do it like this and see what happens, right?

But this gives you the why, the reasoning why you would add an acid at a different time. And she goes into all the sciencey details of like, pH and like what the pH is of, of every ingredient in her kitchen. She literally goes, she went through and gave us a beautiful list. Side note, the, again, I've probably said this before, but the illustrations in this book are beautiful.

Um, but she goes through and she gives a list of like the phs of everything in her kitchen. But just understanding like the fact that tomatoes are an acid and that that is why your onions didn't cook. If you're someone who wants to know the why. This book gives you the why, and then it helps you go and be a better cook because now you know why you would add something at a certain point, why you would add salt here or not there, or you top something with sour cream, but you wouldn't add an acid to what you cooked or things like [00:13:00] that.

And really gives a why to the order of operations of things. And it, it just really clears it up on what, what is, what's actually happening. You didn't cook it wrong, you added in the wrong order. It's not necessarily your fault, it's just because you added acid at the wrong time.

Roni: Yeah. So this brings me to my super mind blown moment, which was in this same section when she's talking about how acid affects the texture of foods. And she talks about chemical leavening, which is like baking soda and baking powder. So let me just read these couple sentences she said. doughs and batters leavened by baking soda should also have an acidic ingredient ingredient such as natural cocoa powder, brown sugar, honey, or buttermilk Baking powder on the other hand, already contains powdered tartaric acid and doesn't need an external source of acid to react.

This blew my mind because I always thought that I could just use, okay. Specifically I'm thinking about brown sugar. I always thought in a recipe I could just, if I didn't have [00:14:00] brown sugar, whatever, I can just use regular sugar, not a big deal. Okay. But I didn't realize that if it was using baking soda. In the recipe and not any baking powder.

You really need that brown sugar because now I know molasses is an acid. This totally blew my mind because I definitely have ruined so many, well, quote unquote, ruined. I still ate them so many cookies because I was like, well, I have a brown sugar. I don't have any, I'm just gonna use regular white sugar, and this is the reason.

I was, I, I don't, I, I don't know why, this is the one thing that stood out to me so much, but it just really did probably 'cause I didn't know that molasses was considered an acid.

Riley: Or why, why you wouldn't, like, why some recipes call for baking powder and baking soda and some only call for one or the other. It, it, yeah. Again, a light bulb for people who cook like you and I cook. Right? We've, we've, we've gone through our stories on here before. We, we cook, we cooked for a long [00:15:00] time.

It's kind of like, I don't know, it's like washing your face. Go with me here. It's like, do, it's like getting in the shower. It's like, well I just bathe. It's like I just cook. And this like is taking that to another level of understanding, right? Like I knew I could make my own brown sugar if a recipe called for it, and I often do, 'cause I'll have white sugar and molasses, but I won't have any brown sugar or my brown sugar is as hard as a rock.

And so I would often do that, but I didn't realize the why behind it or like the little scientific reason behind it. But what I mean with the shower is like you just get in, you do the thing you do when you get out. And and like with cooking, I can get like that too. Well, I just do the things I do and then I'm done and off.

I know that so often in my life and so many people like. You just gotta get the thing done. Like you just wanna get the thing done. But these little tips like, like from salt to fat to acid, now there's been all these little things that. Aren't that hard, they're, it, [00:16:00] none of it is rocket science. I mean, it is science, but none of it is like so complicated that you're literally having to rewire everything you do in the kitchen.

It's just, just swap this little thing or do this in a different order. Like just changing those little habits, and doing it less on autopilot, can really make a huge difference in your cooking skills.

Roni: And if you're producing. Better tasting recipes, you're probably gonna enjoy cooking more. 'cause everybody's like, wow, this tastes amazing. Make this again. You know? And then you're like, oh, I'm good at this. I can do this again. I like it.

Riley: Exactly. And becoming a more confident cook. I mean, I don't know. I just feel like that when you, something you do every day till you die, uh, you wanna feel good at it.

Roni: Yeah, I totally agree.

Riley: I found so right after, you talked about, right after this section on the levening agents, she talks about acid and eggs. Okay. But she talks about how adding, sometimes adding lemon juice to scrambled eggs will make them creamier because of the way [00:17:00] acid interacts with the like molecules of an egg, egg white and an egg yolk. And I meant to test it out before we recorded this and I didn't, but I love scrambled eggs, so I'm really excited to just add a little bit of lemon.

And so often just a little bit of something you're not gonna taste it, but I'm excited to try that and see how much it adds to just something as simple as cooking an egg.

Roni: I have done it before. I don't do it every time I make scrambled eggs. I often make very lazy scrambled eggs. But you definitely don't taste the. Acid in it at all. You don't taste the lemon juice in it all, in my experience. And it's, it's actually how you make like a French omelet. So, you know, there's a restaurant that we really like in town.

They have a super good omelet. That's how, that's probably how they make their French omelet is they add a little bit of, little bit of lemon juice to it, and it just makes it like really, like fluffy and creamy and, yeah. Super good.

Riley: Yum. You're making me want that for dinner.

Roni: So related to that, she talks about how acid, [00:18:00] tenderizes meat and fish proteins, but if you leave it on too long, it can also then toughen that meat. So this was a really interesting realization for me. I knew that acid tenderized meat, because most. Marinades. If you make a marinade, you know that it, in most of them include some sort of an acidic component, even if it's not directly like vinegar or lemon juice.

A lot of times it's like put some hot sauce in there or put some brown sugar in there, or mustard. Yeah. And so, so I realized that part, but I didn't realize that if it's in contact with the meat for too long, that it can then actually make your meat tough. So that was, that was a really interesting realization to have and realizing it actually made me a little, it was one of those things that made me just slightly confused because then I was like, so is marinating my meat for like 24 hours too long?

Like, should I be marinating things for only like six to 12 hours? You know, particularly when I'm marinating stuff, I [00:19:00] usually don't follow a recipe. I'm just like. We're like, we did this as week. We had, stir fry and we were having flank steak with the stir fry. And I was like, well, flank steak is always a little chewy and tough, so I'm gonna marinate it the night before.

But then I was like, kind of freaked out, like, Ooh, is 24 hours too long to leave it in the marinade?

Riley: I had the exact, I had the exact same concern and thought I might try. Making my marinade without the acid and then adding the acid right before cooking and seeing if that made a difference. Because a mar, I mean, I don't know. I, I, it was something that I also didn't feel like I had a ton of clarity on, uh, because I also will marinate steaks overnight, even chicken, like just to get things done and like, 'cause I do a lot of prepping ahead and so like, if I.

If I've got 20 minutes, I'm gonna throw that chicken in a bag with some marinade and that'll be dinner tomorrow night and I'm good to go. And so I was, I was curious about that too, if, if the acid needed to come later.

Roni: Well, so what I, so my experience this week was that I left it in the marinade for about 12 hours and it was [00:20:00] beautiful. It tasted great. So I don't know if 24 hours would be too long or not, but 12 hours was good for at least a flank steak. So,

Riley: good. We'll report back. We'll keep trying this

Roni: yeah.

Riley: Uh, one of the, like, just on the topic of meat and marinades, like the biggest game changer for me has been a meat thermometer. From tough for like in regards to tough meat, like just getting it to the exact temperature that you want it to be. Really has resolved a lot of my tough meats issues.

'cause I often would cook things longer than I'm meant to because I was afraid that it wasn't done. And I hate taking something off the grill or out of the oven. And saying dinner's ready and cutting into it and it being raw.

Roni: Yeah,

Riley: yeah. So just on that topic, meet thermometers or game changers too.

Roni: So then she goes into talking about how you can actually, acid is the one element in cooking that you can really produce yourself or produce naturally, I guess, um, through two different cooking processes. And one of them is Browning Foods. [00:21:00] So as Riley mentioned in the beginning when we were talking about, uh, different additions that you could have to recipes that would be acids.

She mentioned caramel, caramel, however people say it, and. And the browning. That browning process is essentially care caramelization. Okay. I say caramelization, but I say caramel.

Riley: Okay. Yeah. Okay. Let's talk about this for a second. I think it's geographical for sure.

Roni: Oh, yeah.

Riley: I get really confused on the air quotes right way to say it. 

Roni: But I, yeah, I don't, I don't necessarily say caramelization. Maybe I say caramelization, but I just said caramelization. So.

Riley: okay, listeners, I'm gonna put up a reel and you guys get to vote and tell us. Do you say caramel or caramel?

Roni: Yeah, I'm gonna say all of the people from the Midwest and the north section of the United States say Carmel.

Riley: And everyone in, everyone in the

Roni: Everyone in this house says caramel.

Riley: It is spelled C-A-R-A-M-E-L, but it's fine

Roni: Well,

Riley: care.

Roni: [00:22:00] yeah.

Riley: The rules don't apply to every word. It's fine. Just keep going.

Roni: It's one of those words. Pecan. Pecan.

Riley: No, it's definitely not pecan. It's pecan. I, I'm not, I'm not gonna, that one you can't.

Roni: Anyways, so there's the, uh, chemical reaction that happens when you brown the sugars of food, and that's caramelization and it creates, I said, caramelization that time, and it creates an acidic component in your food. The other one, which ri also mentioned earlier is fermentation. So this is why, uh, beer.

Is considered beer and alcohol considered acidic ingredients. It's why, you know, you make your own sauerkraut or something that's, uh, an acidic component. And then also cultured dairy like we mentioned. And, fermented breads like sourdough.

Riley: On this topic, I, I just wanna point out like when I've eaten, uh, like ice cream with caramel on it, or I just said [00:23:00] caramel. Yikes. And now, I don't know. If, if you eat a dessert with I can't even say it anymore. You don't necessarily think like, oh, this is an acid because, and I, we talked about this a bit at the beginning, but it can be very subtle, right?

It's about the pH, right? It's not about does it give you this like massive tang like eating a pickle, you know, or squeezing a lemon on top of something. Um, and so I just wanna point out that like, if you're afraid or if you don't like acidic things, like if like. Vinegar is literally your arch enemy in cooking.

'cause I know people who hate the flavor of vinegar. Um, you still are gonna get the same, like you just said, like browning your sugars is what creates the acid. It's like you don't just eat that and think, oh, this is acid. Right? You don't think, it doesn't give me this, like, it doesn't give me the pop as a lemon, but it's about what it does in your palate and that like subtle pop, that subtle brightness.

Yeah. It doesn't have to be [00:24:00] overwhelming. I. It's honestly probably better if it's not. 'cause you want it to be subtle and to balance the flavors.

Roni: right. There are ways to achieve the acidic component in a recipe that's not, like we said earlier, not just tossing vinegar and lemon juice on stuff.

Riley: Exactly. I just wanted to point that

Roni: Yeah, I think it's great. then we move into actually using acid. So I know a lot of the things we've talked about. We are, we've definitely talked about using acid, but she talks about how using acid ingredients is much like using salt in the way that you can layer acid throughout a recipe. Uh, she, you know, she talks about the salt chapter.

She talks about, what's the, what's the thing that she says? Oh, she talk, she says like, seasoning from within. Right. So it's, so the, so the process of adding salt throughout a recipe, you know, putting salt on your meat before it cooks so it has time to absorb and then salting within the cooking process, and then maybe garnishing with something that has a salty.

Component to it. That's, that's kind of the [00:25:00] idea of like salting from within and acid can be the same way where you can layer acid throughout the recipe to give it a nice, bright contrasting flavor.

Riley: Which is important when she starts talking about balancing your meal, which a real, I think this is almost like a whole separate podcast, um, to discuss what it looks like to balance a plate. And you know, it's different in the home cooking world, right? Because, uh, you don't have to eat everything. I mean, I guess you don't have to eat anything anywhere.

No one's forcing you to eat anything. But I just consider, like when you go to a restaurant and you order a plate, like it would come to you pre prepared, the steak is sliced with the sauce on top and the vegetables on the side, and the potato, however it was cooked. You know, like I'm just, just thinking of a random meal, and so you're going to eat that almost as if it's like a. It's all together, you know, like you're gonna have a bite of things [00:26:00] together. Whereas when you eat at home, sometimes people don't wanna serve themselves something, you know, it's not a buffet every time you go to a restaurant, and I mean, my house isn't always a buffet either. I, I often will serve plates, but I'm thinking like, when I'm feeding my family, usually it's like a come fix your plate kind of a.

Roni: Yeah.

Riley: So like if somebody doesn't prefer to eat cabbage, like they might not grab the slaw that goes on top of the taco. They might only grab the salsa, the mango salsa that I made. They might not grab the slaw. But when you're considering a balanced plate. You're considering all the components, like you want that slaw because it has the acid pop, um, or, and it, because it balances the, maybe the meat that you cooked that didn't have nearly any acid in it.

It gives the whole meal, the brightness. That's the interesting thing to consider, that when you're planning a meal. You wanna have all the different components, like maybe something's a little saltier and something has the fat, like let's think about Mediterranean food. Does this really well, I feel like, you're gonna have almost all of these [00:27:00] components in it, right?

The pickles and the olives and the tomatoes, uh, those are all acids. And then you're gonna have the feta, which is salty and fat. And like. I'm just thinking like when I'm preparing meals at my house, I don't always think about balancing them in this way, but I thought it was a really beautiful thing to think, okay, so like I can elevate my meals at home by making sure that something has that little acid pop.

And it's just a little different though than eating out at a restaurant. It was, what is what I'm trying to say?

Roni: Yeah, that's a really good point. I wanna bring it back to my hamburger that I had at a restaurant last week that was slightly disappointing because there wasn't an acid acidic component, and it was, it, it was this exact thing where it wasn't, you know, the burger itself was, was good. The fries themselves were good.

However, there since there wasn't like an acidic component with either one of them, it, the whole meal itself felt out of balance. Like it all felt way too savory and rich, and there was [00:28:00] nothing to really bring it back towards the center of like, Ooh, I just, you know, I feel really satisfied after eating this meal.

I feel like when I have meals like that, that everything is just a little too rich. It comes to a point where I'm just like, I just, I'm not even full, but I don't even really want to eat this anymore. You know? Like there's just nothing that is keeping it interesting when I'm eating it. But I notice that if I go to.

That same restaurant would they like that, that we really like, that has the delicious omelet. They often serve their e even breakfast entrees with a really delicious, fresh, um, lettuce salad that they put, fresh squeeze lemon juice, and a little sprinkle of salt on, which is just, it's the, it's such a good,

Riley: It's so

Roni: so simple and it's the most amazing salad, and it just, it's such a well balanced meal that.

I like, that's what I feel like I'm always aiming for. Like when I think now that, well now that's what I'm always aiming for. [00:29:00] Realizing that the acid is really the thing that helps it have that great balance. And I agree the, the, the end of this chapter where she talks about creating a balanced meal was really eyeopening to me.

And like I said, I know I'm giving like, restaurant ideas, but I think it is eye-opening to go to a restaurant and realize like. They're not employing all of these ideas that I just learned about in that book, and I paid money for this food.

Riley: Mm-hmm. Well, and I think, you know, we're talking to home chefs, right? Like, I'm trying to feel like I'm trying to bridge the gap because. you're doing this at home, you've gotta harness this a di a little bit of a different way than when you get served a whole plate somewhere, um, with the intention that you're gonna eat all of it.

Like, like this restaurant we keep talking about with the salad and the omelet and the potatoes and all the things on the plate. Like it's all there. Right. I, I think it's, it's kind of al it's almost like giving your, like if you have guests over at your house and you're cooking something. She mentioned in the book at one point, like, no Brit would ever eat fish and chips without malt [00:30:00] vinegar.

It's almost the idea of just like, if someone's gonna like, opt out of something that you're serving, give them another option. I'm thinking like, put the vinegar out, like put the malt vinegar out if that's what, you know, malt, if you're serving fish and chip, put the malt vinegar out. but if it's kind of like giving, it's like making sure that there's like optional components that kind of give the same elevation.

If, you know, like I'm just thinking about kids. Like, I know my kids might not prefer to eat this one thing, or they're only gonna have a little bit of it, and their pals are not, like, my kids eat really well, but, um, my pet, you know, their palettes aren't quite as, like, they're not thinking through every bite they're taking.

Right. But particularly when you have other people over, just making sure that you've got some options to give that same pop, even if it's just a bowl full of limes. Um, if you're serving like, I don't know, Mexican food or something, and, and you that the like. Sour cream, lime vinegar slaw you made with jalapenos in it is gonna be the perfect addition to their taco, but they don't like jalapenos.

Okay. Well make [00:31:00] sure there's lime for them to squeeze on top too, so that it still gives that pop even if they opt out of something you made.

Roni: Yeah, that's such a good point. So related to that, she, in talking about using acid, she talks about garnishing acids, which I thought this was a really important thing that she men mentions, is that she says, when you can use the same kind of acid in cooking and garnishing, so like try to use the same kind so you're not necessarily going, if you're making tacos.

You're not necessarily going to use vinegar in the marinade for your meat and then garnish it with lime. You would use lime in the marinade for your meat, and then also garnish with lime to kinda like, keep like a same, same situation here, which I just thought was that that was a thing that I'd never would have considered.

And I think that that's something that, that can help keep things simpler, I think for somebody who is. New to trying to use more acid in their food, is just potentially think about like, what would I add at [00:32:00] the end of this to, you know, to make this taste really good. Oh, maybe I can add some of that in the cooking process.

That also might enhance the flavor too. 

Riley: I love that she moved into a section on improvising with salt, fat, and acid, which I thought was a really beautiful way to tie these first three chapters together. She says, play to each element's strengths. Use salt to enhance flavor, fat, to carry flavor, and acid to balance flavor. Um. She also says that if you, if the thought of improvising, cooking scares, you just take it really slow, which I think is something you and I talk a lot about.

Improvising, improvising meals, improvising recipes, and I know that can be highly intimidating to people who don't cook. But I just think it was such a good point, like, once you know these skills and once you know what each component does for the palette, it can really start to help you feel more comfortable with improvising.

Um, because you understand what you're doing and you're not gonna over add something or under add something. You can really start to work within these things that you're learning and let them work [00:33:00] in concert to improve anything you eat, which is also a quote from the book.

Roni: I love it. All right. Well, I think that's the perfect time for us to transition into answering some dinner dilemmas. 

All right. Kristy writes in and says she needs some help with. Using up random ingredients and tracking inventory of those random ingredients in her home. She says her freezer and pantry are where food goes to die. She needs a better solution for knowing what's in there while she's planning, 'cause she's not generally at home.

So this kind of feels like a plan to eat. Driven question here.

Riley: Yeah, for sure. The first thing I would say is the plan eat shopping list has a. A secondary list within it called the Staples List. And while it is effort, it does make a huge difference. If you go through and add, it's completely customizable, just like everything else in Plan Eat. So spending the time to list out, I've got four cans of green beans, I've [00:34:00] got.

Three cans of corn. I've got chips, I've got corn tortillas. You know, like those kinds of things. It really does help. And if you can do that once a month or something to kind of keep a stock, it, it'll save you a long, a lot of time in the long run. I typically am someone who shops at home first. And so like, while I might make my meal plan when I'm not at home, I'll shop at home before I go grocery shopping.

And that's my personal favorite method of doing this because inevitably, I just haven't kept track of something as well as I wanted to in my Staples list. And so, or, you know, other people live here, other people eat things that I don't know that they consumed. And so it's just helpful for me to shop at home.

And by that I mean I open up my pantry and I, okay, we're gonna have ramen bowls. Oh, I only have one pack of ramen. I, I'm gonna have to get some more noodles before we actually have that. And that's really what helps me, uh, streamline my meal planning process because my pantry and freezer are where food go to die Also.[00:35:00] 

Roni: Yeah, I think as far as far as in Plan to Eat, the Staples list is probably the best option there. I think just the idea of using up random ingredients is, I. We actually talked a lot about this on a budgeting episode that we did maybe like two years ago. Talking about trying to plan recipes that coordinate ingredients.

So I know a lot, a lot of times people talk about something like cilantro. Cilantro is the thing that, like I use it in one recipe and then I never use it for the rest of the week, and then it's bad and. Luckily, cilantro only costs like a dollar. But I understand it's still frustrating enough to throw it away.

So I think just that idea of trying to coordinate recipes and maybe. Particularly when it comes to seasonings or like aromatic, flavorful ingredients, you could stick with similar cuisine for multiple nights in a row. So like maybe a Mexican two nights in a row. Um, and that would allow you to use up some of those things.

But it doesn't necessarily [00:36:00] have to be, because I can think of a lot of like Asian style recipes that would use cilantro. Would you like cilantro and also like jalapenos or something like you would use in a Mexican dish. So I think it, they're the element of it that it, similar to using the Staples list takes a little bit of thought and effort.

Coordinating. Coordinating recipes also takes some thought and effort. But I think to, for me, that's the easiest way to make sure that I don't have random things in my house that I'm like, what am I gonna do with this?

Riley: I mean, this sounds silly, but. Well, you can do this in Plan to eat. It's actually not silly. You can search by ingredients, and so you could say, you can search by cilantro and jalapenos and see what other recipes pop up, and that can be really helpful in using up what you have at home or. I often go into the meal planning process with some stragglers from the week before straggler ingredients.

And so sometimes I'll use that option of searching by ingredients to see, [00:37:00] okay, I'm gonna use this up, this angel hair, cabbage, like what else can I do with it? Another thought that I had for her, and I know she says she's not at home when she's planning. Um, but in order, like the best way that I can go about not letting things die in my freezer is taking often it'll be like my week where I'm trying to budget.

It's like the week where I'm like, I have spent too much money on groceries this month. We are, we're gonna rummage. That's kind of what I say. I, I will plan my meals around what I have in my freezer, and that is actually what we're doing this week. So it's easy for me to like come up with this idea because I've got a big thing going on this weekend.

I've got a lot of prep to do and I just haven't gotten to the grocery store, and I also don't wanna spend money on groceries. And so I'm thinking, okay, I know I've gotten green chili frozen in my freezer, so tonight we're gonna have chili keyless, which is like. Basically Mexican nachos, um, topped with eggs and green chili.

Uh, and then last night I had frozen some homemade spaghetti sauce. And so I just like created, [00:38:00] like, I just pulled it outta the freezer. I thought it out. We had spaghetti. I think my girls had Ravi. I had leftover also. I had leftover ravioli noodles. My girls had ravioli and I had like spaghetti. And then.

The night before that, we had breakfast for dinner because I always had breakfast for dinner ingredients at home. And I know that this person is not usually at home, but if there is a space where you can look into your freezer and say, oh, man, I've got all these stir fry vegetables. Like I, I bought too many one time, and now I've got a whole bag of pre-chopped frozen stir fry vegetables.

Perfect week to have stir fry. Oh, I've also got frozen chicken. Like that meal's been immediately made and you don't have to buy it. Anything like maybe a sauce packet, maybe some rice if you don't have any. But if you've got a pantry full of stuff, I'm gonna guess you've got rice, and then you've immediately got a meal that you don't have to pay anything extra for.

Roni: Yeah. Awesome. I think too, I know that, Kristy here mentions her freezer and her pantry. I always get stuck on using up random ingredients that are more like fresh ingredients. And the thing that I wanted to mention related to that, if that's something that you struggle with, is [00:39:00] making sauces with some of those fresh ingredients.

A lot of times, like I said, like cilantro is something that's a culprit. A lot of times avocados for me, 'cause avocados are always like four for $5. And so I'm like, well, I'll just buy four even though the recipe that I'm making really only needs one. But so you could make like an avocado, cilantro, crema or something, you know, that you could then use in a couple recipes throughout the week.

So for those of you who struggle with those random things, I think sauces are the way to use up some stuff.

Riley: We often will make too much guacamole, which feels shocking because at times in my life there's never been an an ounce of guacamole left at, at, but it'll often become avocado toast the next morning. Or I have made, I'll make ranch like homemade ranch dressing with, and I'll throw in my extra jalapeno, I'll throw in an avocado or cilantro and then make like a, you know, like a flavored ranch dressing.

Which is great for more than just like a salad. You can put that on a lot of stuff.

Roni: Totally.

Riley: All right, so this one is from Granny Deb. That's how she listed her name. [00:40:00] Um, and she says, I need help using up leftovers and cooking for only two.

Roni: So similar, I think some similar ideas, uh, maybe to what we just talked about here. I think, uh, so I can tackle the idea of cooking for only for two 'cause that's what I cook for. I think cooking for only two, I. Number one, if you're using plan to eat, definitely scaling recipes so that you're not making a whole bundle of food.

We talked about this a little bit, um, the last, was it the last one or the one before where we talked about cooking for one? So cooking for two and cooking for one. To me, I feel like there are a lot of similar tips, but if you do make a bunch of leftovers, my advice is to freeze some of them immediately so that way they, you're not eating leftovers for five days in a row, and you're also not getting to day four of your leftovers and being like, Ugh, we're so tired of this.

And then the leftovers are kind of. And you don't wanna put 'em in the freezer at that point. So I think it's better to put 'em in the freezer. You can always take 'em out five days later if you're still [00:41:00] loving this recipe and eat it then. So I think that's both cooking for two and using up leftovers.

If you have leftovers that are just super random, maybe it's only, you know, there's two of you, but like, oh, that's really only it's gonna serve one of us and it's kind of random. You can definitely add. Certain things to another recipe. So I'm thinking like, I made some sauteed vegetables the other night and what was left over was not enough to make another meal.

It wasn't even really enough to like have in lunch the next day, you know? But I took those sauteed vegetables and then I then put 'em into a stir fry that already had other vegetables in it too. So it kind of repurposed them in that sort of a way. That's what I got off the top of my head.

Riley: I think let's talk through some things here so that Deb can have some ideas. 'cause I'm thinking like you just said, with this, or adding your vegetables to another thing to make a totally different meal. Using up leftovers, like, like you just said, the freezer is amazing, but I'm thinking like I make this pot roast and this sounds [00:42:00] crazy, but the leftover pot roast I turn into, Philly cheese steak sandwiches. So I take the meat, shred it up, I add, I saute peppers and or saute. Yeah. Peppers, onions and mushrooms. Add cheese, put it on a hogie roll, like, and it's great, like the flavor of the meat is great. And then you just kind of elevate it with the other things, you know, like we like the pot roast as is, but we kinda repurpose it.

And repurposing your leftovers can help you use them up a little better, which is what you were already saying. Taking things like leftover taco meat and taco vegetables, like you could make that into like a Mexican breakfast frittata. And then it's like you're, you've already done half the work on it, you know, 'cause of the things are already prepared.

Using up leftovers can be hard. I think scaling recipes, like you already said, will help you have less leftovers if you're already struggling. 'cause I know a lot of people don't like. To eat leftovers, which is why I'm thinking let's give her some ideas for what to do with the leftovers that are not just reheat and eat

Roni: Yeah. [00:43:00] Well, so actually this is bringing up an interesting idea for me that I think both you and I are like skirting around the idea of. We are talking about using up leftovers that are more ingredient style leftovers. We're not, you know, we're not talking about like, I made a pasta bake and how do I use these leftovers?

You know? And so I think that could be, if you're somebody who typically makes a recipe that's like a, a casserole or like a full on, everything's already mixed together in the recipe. Maybe part of what you do is transition a little bit to more the ingredient style of cooking, where it's like you make something like a roast and roasted vegetables, and those can be repurposed into different recipes in different ways rather than like, I made hamburger helper.

How do I repurpose hamburger?

Riley: Totally. Yeah, you're right. You're right. Because those things, you can't really repurpose a lasagna.

Roni: Right? [00:44:00] Yeah.

Riley: Yeah, you're right. I think in that way, like the scaling it down so you don't have a tremendous amount of leftovers or freezing them, those are your number one and number two options. 

But if you, if you're trying to figure out how to use them up differently, like thinking through things like instead of dressing the entire salad, only dress the salad you're eating so that then your vegetables hold up better to eat them the next day, because nothing's worse than a soggy salad, right.

Roni: Totally.

Riley: And so thing, doing a few things like that, just tweaking your habits, like tweaking your methodology. Like, oh, I, I always dress the entire salad so that it's perfectly tossed. Okay, well then maybe just toss a smaller portion so that then your leftovers can be used in a different way.

Roni: Yeah. Yeah, I like that. SS says, coming up with ideas. Having the energy to follow through. 'cause sometimes it's easier to grab something quick [00:45:00] and is maybe not the best choice.

Riley: I feel you like it is, it's sometimes having the energy to cook when you've gotten through a really busy week is really hard.

I think this starts with like, I. Meal planning around your calendar and, and, and giving yourself some really easy wins, like, I'm gonna make this 15 minute Asian stack up situation because it takes 15 minutes and I think by Friday I'm feeling that.

Or Friday night's pizza night, I planned it on my meal plan. Like whether that's frozen pizza or ordered out, it's okay to like give yourself some like easy wins and just simple meals.

Roni: I totally agree. The thing that I thought of when you said that is planning around your schedule in a way that's also planning around your energy, you know, be, I think we often don't necessarily think about that. We just think like, oh, it's gonna be a really busy night. I need to have a quick meal. When really maybe we need to be thinking about it like.[00:46:00] 

I'm gonna be tired and not engaged. What can I make when I'm feeling that way?

Riley: Yeah. My, what my go-to is for nights when like, like I, I mostly stay home with my kids. I work part-time. My husband works two jobs. Like we're busy people, right? But there's days where I'm gone from 7:00 AM to six o'clock, and on those days I know full well I'm not gonna get, I'm not gonna want to make dinner when I walk in that door.

And on those nights, that is when I use my crockpot the most often.

Roni: Mm-hmm.

Riley: Like you, you know, I have the most energy at breakfast most of the time, so like I'm like throwing all the things in the Crock Pott and I've even put it in the Crock Pott the night before and put it in the fridge so that the next day all I have to do is pull it out and put it into the actual like plugin hot situation, you know? Like doing those kinds of things suggest like preemptively, no, I will not have time. I will not have the energy. But it's gonna be done for me when I get home. You and I have talked a lot about [00:47:00] doing our future selves a favor, and this is that.

Roni: Yeah, this is exactly that idea and coming up with ideas. If part of the coming up with ideas is that, you know, your recipe book in Planee just feels super overwhelming. My suggestion would be to either use your tags and tag recipes that are quick, easy, family favorites, whatever, or put those into your queue in plan to eat so that way you're just filtering through a smaller list of recipes.

That's often how I do a lot of my meal planning is I just go to my queue. 'cause I have like. 30 dinner recipes that are in there that are kind of my go-tos. So if it feels overwhelming, I think just shrink the list that you're looking at, um, and potentially coming up with ideas, you know, if you have other people in your household to ask to help you.

I know that sometimes, uh, other people can not always be super helpful with that, but maybe every once in a while, somebody will have a really good idea that will help spark a good recipe.[00:48:00] 

Riley: Yeah, I know when I ask, sometimes people in my house are like, well, I don't know what I'm gonna want to eat that day. And I'm like, well, I have to know what we're gonna eat that day because I need to be prepared, you know? 

Roni: Also, I'm cooking it. So you're just going to eat it mostly?

Riley: Yeah, you've got five choices. Like we can oscillate between which ones which day, but like, I've gotta have five meals planned. Um, yeah, I, another thing I do here, I know we've talked about this before, asking friends for ideas, asking them what they're eating that week or what they ate last week. Another thing that I do is if I import a new recipe or if someone gives, like, I have friends who just send me things and they're like, this is so good.

Make this, I will add it to my planner for the next week.

Roni: Yeah.

Riley: And so I almost do that mindlessly, and sometimes, I mean, I'm not, this isn't, it doesn't always work where I'm like, yes, I'm definitely gonna make this. But sometimes it just gives me that direction of like, oh, I thought about making that. Well, I don't have time to make that this week, but maybe I'll make it next week.

Roni: Yeah.

Riley: But just once you've imported a new recipe [00:49:00] or. Something comes to mind where you're like, oh, we haven't had that in a long time. Like my husband just the other night was like, man, we haven't had my favorite dinner in forever. And I'm like, okay, great. I'm gonna add that to the meal plan. This week's too busy, bro.

But like next week we'll have that because it's like, I don't make it very often 'cause it's pretty involved. And so like, okay, I'm gonna put it on the next week. So that, like, that, that meal plan's already, that that meal is already planned. And I just did it in the moment where the idea came to me. So.

Roni: Awesome idea. Alright, I think that that's gonna wrap us up for the day.

Riley: great.

Roni: As always, thank you so much for listening. We will be back in two weeks to break down heat in salt fat acid heat. So if you're reading along with us, make sure you read the heat chapter, if you're loving this book club breakdown, we would love to hear, some ideas.

If you have any ideas for, a book related to cooking or meal planning or [00:50:00] food, that you'd like to talk about on the podcast, you can email it to us at podcast@plantoeat.com. Thanks for listening, and we'll see you in two weeks.