#131: A Flexible Family Meal Planning System with Hannah Van Ark

This week, Hannah Van Ark joins the show again to talk about family meal planning and creating systems that make feeding your family easier. After becoming a mom, Hannah realized that most families don’t need more nutrition knowledge; they need practical systems that reduce stress and get balanced meals on the table. 

We discuss flexible meal planning, how to serve one family meal without being a short-order cook, navigating picky eating, and creating calm at dinnertime. Hannah also shares her five components of a balanced meal and practical ways to adapt meals for kids while still meeting everyone’s needs. 

If feeding your family feels overwhelming, this episode offers a realistic, encouraging approach to building a meal system that works in real life. 

Follow Hannah on Instagram @plant.forward.families

Join Hannah's masterclass here: https://theplantforwardnutritionist.kit.com/mealplanningmasterclass

Sign up for a free trial + get 20% off your first annual subscription: plantoeat.com/PTEPOD

Contact us: podcast@plantoeat.com

Connect with Plan to Eat online:
Instagram
Facebook
Pinterest

Transcript

2nd interview hannah van ark
===

[00:00:00] I'm Riley and I'm Roni. And this is the plan to eat podcast, where we have conversations about meal planning, food, and wellness. To help you answer the question what's for dinner. 

Roni: Hello. Welcome back to the podcast today. We are so pleased to share an interview with you that we had with Hannah Van Ark. We had her on the podcast a few years ago, um, May, 2023. That was episode 56 of the podcast, if you're interested in going back and listening to it. But a lot has changed in Hannah's life since we had her on the podcast last, so this was really fun to reconnect with her.

Riley: Yeah, we talked about real life meal planning for families. Uh, that's really what we talked about. Um. It was a super fun conversation, really relatable, and it has so many helpful tips and tricks and just, uh, boots on the ground, you know, like how to, how to feed your [00:01:00] families kind of information, and we really hope that you love it.

I. 

Roni: Well, Hannah, thank you so much for joining us again on the podcast. For everybody listening, we had Hannah on the podcast in May of 2023. That was episode 56 of the podcast. We're now on episode like 130 something, so that was a while ago.

Hannah: Wow, that's awesome. Awesome. Well, thank you so much for having me back. I'm so excited to chat with you guys and I love plan to eat, as you know, it's like something I use every single day, so always happy to chat. Meal planning with you. You guys here?

Riley: So let, would, let's start with how, what your business was when we talked last time and how your business has changed in that time.

Hannah: Yeah, so I believe that when we talked last, I was the Plant Forward nutritionist on Instagram, and that's still like my website and my philosophy and everything. Um, I was focused more on sustainable weight loss in that period of time, and since then, the last two years [00:02:00] I've had two kids. So my first child was born in.

April of 2023 and then 19 months later, my son came along. And, um, since then it's shifted. I mean, my philosophy is still the same fiber rich whole plant foods, nothing labeled vegan or vegetarian, just increasing those whole plant foods. But what I've realized, um. What I realized after having kids, after working with moms a lot is that sometimes it's not exactly the head knowledge that is lacking.

It's the actual functional systems and the barriers that are preventing, you know, these balanced and healthy meals from getting on the table for everybody. So I think that a lot of times we're like, oh, if we just know everything and then we can do it all perfectly, then it'll be, it'll be okay and it'll get better.

But really it's like these, these systems that might be broken and. We're spinning our wheels with too much of the details and really need to like take a step back. And I've had those moments where I am like 5:00 PM staring at the fridge, crying kids behind me, totally brain dead, no [00:03:00] idea what I'm gonna make for dinner.

And if I have those moments as. A dietician with a master's degree in nutrition, nutrition research, training, all of this stuff. Like I started to realize that if I'm having these moments, it's probably not a head knowledge issue for me or for others who are experiencing the same thing. This is like a systems kind of problem, and the complicated regimens might be making things too complicated.

If we're not addressing these barriers in the way. So while it's important to be confident in the nutrition knowledge, it's really even more important to set up a system for success that can like help families actually get those meals on the table in a really, um, repeatable and stress-free way. So that's when I sort of transitioned more into family nutrition and family meal planning in particular.

Because once you have that baseline, it is so easier for everybody to get more nourishing meals. And then for moms too, to be able to pursue their own health goals, which has been a huge barrier, is like planning meals for the family while still trying to work on your own health goals. [00:04:00] But it doesn't happen without the right system first.

So when I started to see that need, I started to shift in that direction. And I still help clients doing all sorts of stuff, but I love to help families kind of create that, that calm that is lacking in so many dinnertime situations.

Roni: Yeah, for sure. I'm, I love that you're talking about this already because we are such a fan of like systems and frameworks and

I, I just tend to really believe that it. Doesn't make life rigid and restrictive. To have a system, like a system actually allows you to like free up your energy and headspace and like kind of go on autopilot 'cause you're like cool decisions are made and like stuff is just like running the way that it's supposed to.

Hannah: I could not agree more and like something, like a phrase that kind of. It could be taking outta context, but one that has made a lot of sense in my life is that discipline in certain areas equals freedom. So if you're disciplined with your time, then you have more time freedom because you are not wasting and spinning your wheels.

If you're disciplined with your [00:05:00] finances, you have more financial freedom, right? And so there's all this stuff that we, we sort of think might be. Caging us in a little bit when really it's those structures that are allowing us to free up our mental energy to enjoy life in the way that we should. Um, and this is very true for families and kind of like the meal structure around it,

Riley: Yeah, I was having a conversation with a friend this morning and she was talking about like being a type A mom or a type B mom, type C mom. Maybe you've seen that on the internet.

Hannah: I have, I have.

Riley: and she's not a Type A mom. That's what I'll say. And I, so I think that for a lot of people, they think that, the structure is is that Type a mom, well type a moms, they have structure, they have meal plans, they have it all together, air quotes.

And, and I probably find myself a bit in the Type A Mom category for sure. I do love a plan and my to-do list is life my lifeline. Um. But what would you tell a type B mom to, to help [00:06:00] encourage her that a meal plan it, it actually will allow her that freedom. Like just like you were talking about, like how do you kind of get 'em over that hurdle?

Hannah: It's really hard. I mean, like, and I have clients who feel this way all the time. Some, some types of people and some personality types really buck at the idea of any sort of restriction. And it's like, I call them my like rebel clients, you know? It's like, it's, it's definitely a barrier for some people.

And I would say that, um, meal planning and meal plans and meal systems don't all look the same for everybody. And so what somebody might be thinking of is somebody's very type A meal planning system, and really what that person might need is some flexible back pocket meal options with the staples that they always keep on hand.

That is a meal system. So we're not just talking about like the perfect meal plan with every single meal like planned out and breakfast, breakfast lunches, and dinners and everything like that. We're talking about. My definition of meal planning, which I believe I've said before on this podcast, is making sure that you have access to the nourishing [00:07:00] meals and snacks that you need for you and your family.

And so that is, that's it. And this can include those back pocket meals. It can include cooked dinners, it can include left leftovers, it can even include takeout. And so people like kind of don't realize that the system that you create is the purpose of it is to reduce stress, to make sure that everybody gets what they need.

And there's a million ways to do that, and it doesn't have to look a certain way.

Roni: I love that.

Okay, so we know that you are like a plant forward person. That's what we talked about a lot last time on here. But even just given what you just said of like making sure that you have access to those nourishing things, like for people who are listening who might not know exactly what that means, what do you, what does it mean to be like plant forward?

What does it mean to provide nourishing snacks and meals for your family?

Hannah: Yeah, and I think there's a lot of confusion around that. So this is a great topic and it, it will vary a little bit based on family's needs and mom's health goals and things like that. But I do think that for the most part we're [00:08:00] overcomplicating it. And the noise online is making it feel like you need to be paying attention to all of these tiny little details and all these biohacks and are you hitting your body weight and grams of protein.

And you know, there, there's all of this, this noise out there really. Most families do really well with just like five structural components at a me, uh, at a meal, in my opinion. And those five would be protein, a carb for energy, a fiber rich food. And this is, might be a little, the trickiest one because not everybody knows what that means.

And I'll explain in just a second a color, which would be like a fruit or vegetable and a flavor, which could be something like a healthy fat, a sauce, a condiment, things like that. If you have those five components somewhere in the meal. Or even if you hit three to four on some meals and you know, five on other meals, those five tend to build a pretty balanced meal that not only can serve everybody's health goals, but that everybody will probably enjoy.

Um, if it can be deconstructed in [00:09:00] kind of the right ways, which can be important for families. Um, but going back to the five. Fiber rich, food component. I think that a lot of people get the misconception that fiber is found heavily in vegetables and like non-starchy vegetables. Things like lettuce and tomatoes and cucumbers, and those great vegetables that add color, that add phytonutrients that, you know, add hydration to our meals, but they actually don't contain that much fiber.

So like two cups of lettuce contains one gram of fiber. My personal goal is to get at least eight grams of fiber per meal. And so if I'm considering that my fiber component, that's not gonna cut it. You know, for the, for most meals, a fiber rich food is generally gonna be a, um, starchy whole plant food or a sweet whole plant food.

So fruit is an excellent fiber source. Beans are great. Whole grains are great. Starchy vegetables, things like potatoes and sweet potatoes and acorn squash. Those are also good fiber components. Now, when I talked about those five components, you saw carb and then you hear whole [00:10:00] grains that can be one in the same.

So in that case, it would be four components, you know, um, but I think that what's missing out on a lot of families plates is the, the. The emphasis on that fiber rich food because this is so important for kids and adults alike. Like it's really a nutrient that we're not getting enough of as a population in general.

And placing a bit of focus on that and maybe not so much over focus on building massive amounts of protein into the meal. You know, that may not be as necessary and for some people it might. I never ever like to generalize, like some people actually may need higher protein and that is completely okay, but once, especially when we're talking about like little kids and stuff like that.

I feel like moms might be getting confused about the high protein messaging and being like, am I getting enough kid protein for my kid? And that can be really confusing and make you feel like you're not doing the right thing when oftentimes it's, it's more simple than we 

Roni: Mm-hmm. 

Riley: I love all of that. And in particular, just the, the noise, like it's so hard to figure out [00:11:00] like what the right thing is, but kind of silencing it all and just kind of like doing one thing at a time is pretty helpful. But, or like focusing on one per like. Find one person you trust like you and, and listen to what you're saying.

And do that instead of taking it all in from thousands of people on the internet. Because what's right for them may not be right for you, and they may not even have kids that they're feeding. And that's a totally different discussion And

Hannah: Oh yeah. And it used to be me, you know, like I used to like be working with moms and not quite understand like the barriers and limitations. Now I do. And not to say that providers that don't have kids can't understand that. But I think looking back on it, maybe I didn't do a good enough job of understanding the true barriers of motherhood with little kids especially, you know?

But Thank you. Yeah, I agree. It's like just important to. Tune out the noise and find an expert who knows the stuff, but doesn't need to like give you every single tiny detail. Just know that their approach will include those details and aim to simplify it. That's [00:12:00] kind of my whole thing.

Riley: Yeah, everything you just said, my thought was I need to look at what we're already doing out of those five and then just if there's one we're not doing well, like I feel like we get some of those really well, but like what's just the one we don't get well and like Then just look at that one item of the five and work on that one thing.

Hannah: For sure.

Riley: lowest hanging fruit.

Hannah: Yes. I, I love it. And like, you know, this really, this really is important in the planning stage. 'cause as you are planning your meals, it's easy just to have that little list on a post-it next to you and be like, all right, are we checking the boxes for most of these meals? And it doesn't have to be perfect.

It doesn't have to be all of them. You know, lunches and breakfast are gonna maybe look a little di different than dinners. Start with dinners maybe. But at the same time, it's like if you have just that as your meal planning. You get in the practice of being more mindful of it, and you get better and better week after week of building those balanced meals for everyone.

Riley: Yeah.

Roni: Okay, so talk to us a little bit about this, this type of meal planning when you have young kids that there's a lot of people who have young kids that struggle [00:13:00] to get kids to eat things that are colorful or things that are fibrous, or even protein, you know, lots of kids like don't wanna eat, you know, meat or tofu or 

Hannah: have one of those kids, so 

Roni: Okay. So talk to us about that a little bit. 

Hannah: about this. Yeah, and I think that meal planning at like the toddler stage where, and especially like I feel like 15 months onward, kids start to really get picky, selective, however you like to phrase it. I just say picky. My kids, you know, like have gone through different phases.

Right now I have a 16 month old and I have a 2-year-old. Um, and so. It's, I think that the toughest piece for me about like transitioning my meal planning style during the young kid stage is recognizing just like how their preferences change constantly day to day. Some days they'll eat the one thing, but then they'll completely ignore it the other day.

And sometimes they'll eat a ton and then some days they'll eat like almost nothing at all. And you feel like they're surviving on air. And it stressed me out [00:14:00] so much when I was a new parent because I was like, oh my goodness, is this gonna like, you know. How are they gonna survive? But what we've come to realize, I'm sure as parents, is that they do, we can trust their instincts on how much they need most of the time.

You know, and they, they do know their bodies best in some ways. Now if they're only eating like a three different foods, there's certainly ways we can talk about to, to branch them out and things like that. But I think that like knowing how to flex and pivot a meal plan to. Quickly and on the spot in order to maybe make foods more approachable or comfortable for young kids has been a skill that I've had to develop and that has served me really, really well, um, in helping my, my kids for sure.

And then understanding, yeah, how to support kids in trying new foods and like what are best practices and. I, I'll come back to this over and over again with my clients and myself and probably in this podcast, but what is your role in feeding? [00:15:00] Right? It's really important to understand like what your job is in feeding and what their job is in feeding and.

By adopting those roles and buying into them, you take so much pressure off of yourself as a mom if they're not trying the food that you want them to try at the meal, all you need to do is know how to support them in trying new foods and the strategies and tools. And then from there, it's their job whether to try that or not, and it's your job to then, you know, take that and bring it to the next meal with you as well.

So, yeah, and I'm, I'm happy to chat into like all of those things, but that is definitely. The toughest thing for me is like those changing preferences and then trying to figure out ways to encourage them to explore new foods without being super pressury about it and without threatening or bribing them or anything like that.

Riley: Yeah. It's so relatable. Like it, you get, you get a kid like where you think you understand and then they change, like you think you know what's going on and then they change again. I would love to hear how you [00:16:00] pivot your meal plan, like you just talked about like. They liked pick something. They liked broccoli yesterday and today they hate it. What, how do you pivot your meal plans, like on the fly? Like give us some some practical boots on the ground. Examples.

Hannah: I would love to. In fact, let me just take my dinner from last night because this happened to us. Um, we were making a sun dried tomato gnocchi with white beans, and this is a recipe that historically has been a hit with my toddler, but in the past couple of weeks, she's really. Really been disliking sauce.

And so she doesn't want anything. She's a plain Jane kind of girl. And this is my 2-year-old and I was the same when I was, I was, I will say this, I was the pickiest kid in the entire world up until like the age of 16. So when I see these picky kids, like I was that kid and I know I was the plain Jane person and I really didn't want anything on my stuff.

So my daughter is in that phase right now and. There's a few ways to approach that. We're eating a family meal, so the foods that the family is eating is what she's [00:17:00] gonna be eating. Now, we can modify that sometimes, um, but we don't always do that. Some days we say, okay, you can have plain gnocchi um, and sauce on the side.

Some days I say, you're, we're having nki a sauce tonight. Do you want me to put it on it and mix it in for you or just on top? And then that's another way that I can basically give her more control of the meal that's being served while in a respectful way with other foods that I know she'll eat on the plate.

Challenge her assumption that she can't eat anything with sauce, and to kind of bring her into that like. More accepting of the foods touching, kind of like stage. Now, that's not appropriate for every kid and every like parent knows their kids best. Last night what we decided to do was, um, a sheet pan roast half the gnocchi completely plain, and then kind of served the sauce on the side for her and that worked great.

She usually doesn't like sauce. She doesn't like to dip with sauce. This was a particular sauce that I'd made that was like a creamy sauce. It had like tofu and lentils in it. So I had blended marinara sauce, [00:18:00] tofu and lentils, and it made this like really creamy rose, kind of like looking sauce. And I was like, this is tofu sauce.

She loves tofu. And she's like, Ooh, tofu sauce. And she was like, she put, she took some with her finger and I was like, then this is the next thing that I do. I don't make a big deal out of it. If she tries it, I don't say, oh, good job. What do you think? Is it yummy? Like, oh, like I really try not to, um, react in a way differently than it would if she didn't try it because that.

That then kind of creates this dynamic that puts pressure on her to please me, for example. Um, and I try not to, I try not to do that. You know, every, every once in a while I'll be excited if she tries new food, but, I try to keep it neutral in terms of like my reaction to what she does. And I was like, yeah, so you can like dip it like this and I'll, and I gave her the gnocchi and I said, here's your sauce on the side.

I don't want sauce on the side. Okay, well you don't have to eat it. Big line of mine that I always use, you don't have to eat it if you don't want to, but we are putting it here. This is how we're serving it. Um, and then I just put it on the size and, and then I dish up my plate and. Had my sauce on the side too, and I started dipping in it and eating it.

[00:19:00] And Micah likes his mis mixed in my son. And so I was like, you know, kind of like mixing his in. And then she started dipping it and she's like, oh I, I like it dipped and she actually started dipping it. So next time maybe if we serve this meal, I'll mix it in for her and sort of see if that's a challenge that she can handle at the time.

Till we're getting to the close spot of actually making everybody have the exact same meal in the, in the exact same format. But what I wanna emphasize is that serving one family meal doesn't have to mean that the family eats the meal all the time in the, in the exact same format. I really don't think that that's necessary, and I think that that's often too high of a bar for families, um, to, to scale when.

We're really di dealing with the picky eating stage. My goal for families is not to have to cook a ton of stuff, just use the same ingredients, but can we reserve some in a more plain fashion? Can we make one, you know, batch less spicy? Can we modify them in ways that are acceptable for younger kids without reinventing the wheel and making them a quesadilla and us eating nichi?[00:20:00] 

Right. So that's kind of my goal is that we can still eat the same foods as a family, even if we have to deconstruct a little. That's okay. In my book.

Riley: You said that so much more beautifully than. I could have. That is really the way that we handle meals at our house. 

Like I don't cook two meals. I, I, I have, I have a 6-year-old and in six years of being her mom, I probably. Have maybe served her something like, like different than our meal one or two times.

And most often it's because whatever I cooked ended up being more spicy than I realized

Hannah: right. Totally 

Riley: And I'm then forced to make, you know, like I'm kind of put in this place of like, well, I'm, she can't eat this. She won't, she can't eat it. I can barely eat it because I've made it so spicy. Um, but, but uh, I have tried to say that kind of similar thing on the podcast, but you said that really beautifully because

I agree, making multiple meals is not.

Sustainable and for moms who get to dinner and they're already wiped out and so exhausted, like having to then make [00:21:00] multiple meals, which adds more dishes and cleanup and the whole thing. Uh, it just, it's just really not the Right, 

Hannah: It is 

Riley: not a sustainable approach. Yeah, yeah,

Hannah: I would totally agree with that. And yeah, thanks. It's, it's one of those things where the, the phrases that we use are repeated and it makes the kids more comfortable with the boundaries and expectations at the table. So, one thing that I mentioned that I say a lot is, you don't have to eat it if you don't want to, but we are gonna put it on your plate.

And then another one is, is there anything that I can do to make it better? So if she's like, if she doesn't want gnocchi and she doesn't want sauce, I'm like, well, is there anything I can do to make it better? Do you wanna try and put a little bit of pepper on it? She loves the pepper grinder. Do you want some, um, Parmesan cheese on it?

We had some Parmesan cheese with the meal. And so by kind of like. Te showing her that I'm on her team and I wanna make this a meal that's like happy and enjoyable and successful for everybody. That, that often [00:22:00] disarms her to the point where she's like, yeah, we can figure out how to make it better.

But our job as parents, like we have a very defined role. Our job is to provide the food. In a balanced way, ideally to determine when everybody eats and determine where everybody eats, and their job is to determine whether or not they're going to eat the food and how much of the foods they're going to eat,

Roni: Yeah.

Riley: That's

Hannah: know?

And so that's, that's the basics. And every family's like a little different. Even I modify this a little bit from my own family. So, um, it's, it's just like one of those things, but it takes a lot of pressure off of mom when your job is not how good of a job you did is not defined by how much of the food your kid ate. It's how well did you stick to your roles and support that meal environment?

Roni: Mm. I'm curious if you would use those same tactics with a family, who has previously been doing the short order cook lifestyle, right? Like how, if you have a client who's like, well, currently I make multiple meals and I'm trying to transition away from that. [00:23:00] I do those same phrases seem to work for kids who are already, I'm gonna say like, conditioned to eating their, their preferred foods rather than like, what's just served to them.

Hannah: I'd say there's no one size fits all for like that transition, but it is. But yes, those phrases will work eventually, but once the expectations is like, are set clearly where the parent acknowledges that they've been making multiple meals and we're trying something different now, you know, we are gonna be eating this dinner as a family and like how, and there you might give the kid a little bit more control.

Like say you're having spaghetti with pasta, that's sauces mixed in. But, and the kid usually eats, you know, a quesadilla or whatever else the other food it is, you can say, okay, would you like your pasta with sauce or no sauce? You know, like you can give them a lot more control as they're transitioning and like, the more control I feel like you can give them in those situations, the more receptive they may be.

But I like to remind parents that like one meal is just one meal. You're not [00:24:00] ruining your child's health by, you know, offering them nourishing foods that they're not quite accepting yet. I do always recommend offering a safe food on the plate, which is basically a food that you know that they're going to eat.

So for some families it's fruit. A lot of kids like fruit. For some families it's like cottage cheese or cheddar cheese. Um. These sorts of foods are completely fine to offer alongside unfamiliar foods. I'm really conscious of this 'cause we tend to rotate the types of meals we eat a lot. And so sometimes a family meal is gonna have like zero of the foods that they're used to and sometimes that happens.

And when that does happen, I'll put like slices of cheddar cheese on their plate just in case, you know, so they see something familiar that they know that they can eat. Um, but having that safe food and then not feeling guilty when. A child is resistant to trying new foods. Understanding that you're creating that overarching pattern of them becoming more comfortable and more versatile and accepting foods in their future.

Like it's okay if one meal doesn't go perfectly, like that's actually. That's actually progress. And [00:25:00] there's different ways to get kids to like interact with the food and to create less pressure around meal times that then results in that forward progress. But it can definitely be variable for each family.

And what I would say for somebody who's like used to making two separate meals and used to, and then like transitioning to the one family meal, you could do it to cold Turkey. You could be like, we're no longer doing this. We are now doing this. And try to make it, you know, as. As smooth as possible, but you could also like kind of start introducing family meals plus having some meals where you're kind of doing both just to kind of like vary it up for a while and then slowly increase the proportion of meals that you're eating as a family.

Maybe you do half and half at first, and then maybe you eat family meals three nights a week, and then it moves up to four nights a week and the kids starts to get used to that process. That could be easier for some families too. I don't think there's any hard and fast rule.

Riley: I think that when the mom also sticks to like her role, like she should count that as a win too. Like even if everything about it fails, you know, like, uh, just like, I did this and this, I've got, [00:26:00] I'm the only one who can change me. You know, like,

Hannah: It's like you can only control what you can control and you're not in charge of other people. Like you just aren't. So I, I get that and I think that you can count that and should count that as a win. And I think that bringing peace and calm into meal times is so multifaceted and only some of it has to do with food.

Other things are the attitude of the kids. That day and you know, the time that you actually have to cook the meal and the, you know, this kind of thing. So the food is only can go so far. But one of the things that I think creates chaos for moms at meals is feeling the pressure of wanting to make a meal that everybody loves and, or, you know, whichever parent is cooking, mom or dad, like, I think sometimes often it's moms, um, during those really busy weeknight scrambles and.

By making the goal, create a meal that everybody loves. Two things usually happen. One, you end up creating less balanced slash nourishing meals that are very kid friendly and pleasing, [00:27:00] and that happens a lot. There's like a drift, right, where you're like, oh, well, we'll eat it. So I'll just keep making those sorts of meals and we don't want that to be.

The only thing they eat or what we eat as moms. 'cause that may not support our health goals. Um, and then the other thing is that you gotta be, get comfortable with the discomfort of not everybody not loving every single part of every meal. That's okay. Your job is to provide the balanced meal in a way that ideally is adaptable enough.

That they can accept at least a part of it. And your role does not have to be making a slam dunk every single night, and that's not, and once you release that pressure from yourself, I found at least that mealtime's become more enjoyable for me.

Roni: Hmm. That's very insightful. I, I mean, I don't have children and I even just struggled with that, with my husband of being like, I really want you to like the food. I, I get a lot of value from you liking the.

Hannah: Roni, I find that so funny. 'Cause I felt more pressure before I had kids about this stuff. Like me and my husband. I was like, what if he doesn't like this new recipe? And I like, would get all offended if he like, [00:28:00] didn't like it or he didn't say he liked it. I was like, well, what do you think? You know? That's so funny because you're right.

It, it is that, but like, again. When you're, you wanna take people's preferences into account, but if you're in charge of making the meal that night, like your job is to provide the balancing the balanced meal. When it's his job, it's his job to provide the balanced meal. You know? And I think that separating our roles and understanding that, like not, not everything has to be a slam dunk to be the best version of what we can put forward that day.

Like I think that that's really important for any stage of life.

Roni: Yeah.

Hannah: Yeah.

Riley: What other boundaries do you think, um, would matter? To create that calm, mealtime environment, like what other boundaries do you think need to be put into place by the mom and her choices or by the, for the kids or what, what, yeah. Does that question make sense?

Hannah: it does make sense And like, you know, because creating the mealtime environment isn't just about the food that's placed on the table. It's like the activities that are happening simultaneously. It's kind of the. The timing of [00:29:00] everything and all that stuff. And I would say that some boundaries that I've seen matter and that make a big difference in everybody feeling more ready for dinner and like more accepting of the meals when, when they do hit the table would be first the expectations.

Like you, like I just mentioned, you can't get around like setting the expectation of the roles and. What's gonna create that calm meal is in large part you providing the food and them deciding whether to eat. And you guys both stick in in your lane, like stay in your lane. And that's gonna create more calm because it becomes less cajoling.

And like, are you gonna take a bite? Like, uh, you, you tried this last time and you really enjoyed it, like, I, I bet you'd like it again. Or, Ooh, is your sister eating some chicken? You know, like that kind of thing. Like we, we try not to make it so much about the pressure and just try to enjoy the meal as a family.

Um, and that. And even if they don't eat it, that's okay. Now, what I will say is that I feel like a lot of parents get a lot of guilt when they hear that because they're like, oh, I definitely do that. And I definitely have done that. And there's situations [00:30:00] where I may do it depending on like the, the circumstance or the situation.

But, every, every family is a little bit different. And I think that the overriding principle is that like, let's try to make. The kids not feel pressure at the meals so that they can enjoy it more and that we can enjoy it more. So setting that expectation, I think is huge to creating the calm feeling.

Another thing that I know a lot of parents may rely on, and I'm not so sure how, how prevalent this is exactly, is screens at the, at the table and like kind of turning on the TV to. Get the kids to sit down long enough to focus on their food or, you know, sit down and then you can maybe spoon feeded them like some bites of maybe a food that they don't love.

You know, like stuff like that. I don't recommend that approach because I think it kind of breaks the trust and it doesn't allow them to really come to enjoying those sort of foods on their own, if that makes sense. Um, so that's not an, that's not an approach I recommend. I'm also not like a hardliner on screens.

I don't think that you can never have tv. Um, and I don't think that you can even never have TV during a meal. I think that the majority, I think that. Parents [00:31:00] and kids are best served when the majority of the time you're sitting, connecting and focusing on your food. But if there's a movie that you wanna watch, you wanna have a Friday night movie night during dinner and a pizza blanket on like a, like a picnic blanket on the floor with pizza.

And like, that's fine. Like that can be super fun in a low pressure way to then introduce some veggies on top of that pizza, see if they might like it, you know? So I don't think that there's like these hard and fast rules about, like for, for me and my family at least, we don't have hard and fast rules about screens at.

Dinner, and I think that might surprise some people. Um, and it's, the reason why is because we don't have any, um, we don't have screen time boundaries in place that are consistent because we, uh. Prefer being able to say, not right now anytime for screens. And so when our kids are like, can we watch something?

If we say, not right now, there's no, but we always get to watch something at 5:00 PM We're like, you know, there's like, there's not this expectation of having screens. We prefer an approach where we sometimes watch TV and then sometimes we don't. And then when we don't, [00:32:00] the no is the, the no is the no. And the kids know that.

And it creates so much less drama, in my opinion, for, for us anyways. And so sometimes like, I guess every once every two weeks or something, well, you watch it like Cinderella during, you know, the dinner and like just for a fun weekend thing. And that can be fun for the kids, but they're not then saying, why aren't we watching Cinderella?

That's they ask again and we say, not tonight. We can watch it another time. We can always watch it another day. Um, then that ends the conversation. So I think it's individual for each family from a purely from a, from a pure like. Food focusing standpoint, it's definitely ideal to not be reliant on screens like you need your kid to learn to interact with the food on its own.

For sure. So if a family is feeling like the screen has become a bit of a crutch to get the kid to sit down and eat their meal, that's when we need to reevaluate the relationship with screens and meals, I think, and start to wean that back in a way that makes sense. It's very [00:33:00] individual and different for each family.

Roni: I'm curious about like the, like how you incorporate snacks at

different times during the day to not interfere. Then with dinner, if they like really like, you know, some muffins or something that you made and you have them as a snack, then how do you. How do you time that? Right? So that it's not like, well, we just ate a muffin 30 minutes ago and now it's time for making dinner.

Hannah: Right. This varies with their appetite and I like have to basically reevaluate this at every month. Like my 16 month old son right now, he is in a eat everything phase. Like he's so hungry all the time and he gets really hangry when he doesn't have his food. So it becomes really difficult. Yeah, it's like.

It's like shocking. I'm like, oh my goodness. Like, are you okay? Like, are you, did you fall? He's like, Nope. Just at the fridge doing this. You know, like, I'm like, oh no. And it's like 30 minutes till dinner. Uh, so that's a tough one. I would say that like my big thing is. Kids going into dinner overly starving isn't, doesn't help anybody.

[00:34:00] It's just a meltdown waiting to happen, and then they're just gonna be so much more resistant to their food. We discovered this with our 2-year-old quite a bit when she first like kind of turned two, if she was overly hungry or really stimulated. The dinner would be refused. And so that's, it's a delicate balance, but at the same time, you don't wanna be filling their kids up on snacks and milk and all of this stuff right before dinner because then they're not gonna be hungry enough to be ready for a meal.

I'm a big believer for adults and for kids. Of distinct meals and snacks, and so I think that it's really important to kind of outline what the schedule works for your family most of the time and stick to it. Like if my kid asks for a snack and it's not snack time, I don't give them a snack because it's not snack time, and I know that they will have the opportunity to eat when it's snack time in 30 minutes, in an hour.

I know that if it's. but, we usually don't do a morning snack because we kind of eat breakfast and lunch close together. I think we eat breakfast around seven 30 and lunch around 11. So unless my kid is like, really obviously needs something, we don't usually do a morning [00:35:00] snack. So if they were gonna ask me for a snack at like 10 30, but we're eating lunch around 11, I'd be like, no, not we're, we're gonna like wait for.

You know, the, the meal, um, usually that's okay if I'm really sensing that they need something. I would rather them go into the meal a little over full than a little than over hungry. And so it's mom's intuition at that point. But I do try to give kids at least an hour and a half between a snack and a meal just to give you like a concrete number that has been working for my family lately, and that works for my clients as well.

Um, an hour and a half between the last snack and the dinner tends to be a sweet spot. They're not starving. Starving, but they're still ready for their food and you can't underestimate the impact of. Getting to the table hungry on your kids' willingness to try foods. This has happened many a time for us where, um, like the other day it was cottage cheese.

Both my kids used to love cottage cheese and they both now hate cottage cheese. And they got to the meal feeling ready after we'd been playing outside all day. And it was just like such a fun day. But they were definitely hungry and they were [00:36:00] ready for their meal and they sat down and I put cottage cheese in front of them with everything else.

And Mike had just like, took one spoonful of it and was kind of salty. He was like. And he was just like ate the whole thing. And then Junie saw him doing it and she did it. And so they both ate all their cottage cheese and like one fell swoop when they hadn't touched it for like weeks. So when you get to the table and you're ready for food, just like an adult, you're more likely to enjoy the meal that you're eating.

And so that can work in favor for kids where they're gonna be more likely to try foods. If, if they're ready for them, frankly, it's not about starving your kids to get them to eat the foods that you don't want, that you want them to eat. It's about making sure that you're working with your kids' physiology and not expecting too much of them when they're overly full.

Right?

Riley: Yeah, I have, so I have a 6-year-old and a 3-year-old, and I find that when they ask for that snack, like in that 30 minute window before dinner, I'm usually already making it.

Hannah: Totally.

Riley: and so giving, getting them to help me in the kitchen, which your kids are pretty little, but you know, they get there fast.

But like I, if I can get them to help me make dinner. It can [00:37:00] usually distract them enough from their hunger to like, because sometimes it's just a ma a mind game, right? Like they, they're hungry and that's all they're focused on. But if they, I can get them helping me cook dinner. 'cause I'm like, guys, well we can't eat.

I'm making dinner. It's not ready yet. We can't eat it yet. It's not made.

Hannah: Yeah. It's like you gotta cook it first. I keep saying that.

Riley: Yeah. And so if I can get them to help me, usually it distracts them enough or, or with my 3-year-old, I find her, I mean, she does kind of eat what I'm cooking as I make it sometimes, but she's like trying the mango that I have chopped up or she's eating the raw broccoli that I have chopped up.

And I'm fine with that because she's sampling things that she might not want on her plate. And one bite of mango and one bite of raw broccoli's not gonna ruin her dinner

Hannah: Not at all. And like I'm a huge fan of cutting board bites. I think that, I think it's one of the best ways to introduce new foods to kids, especially if you're gonna be eating it for dinner, is to give them samples from the cutting board. I do this. Ev I, I try to do this every single [00:38:00] time we're having a new food at dinner, I try to get them to eat some, not in their chair, and, you know, in a safe way.

If it's a choking hazard, I'm not gonna have 'em run around with it or whatever, but it's like, make it appropriate, give it to them and allow them to snack on it before and just like explore it and experiment with it and at least encounter it once before it hits their plate. Even that one encounter, even if they didn't eat it, they may be more familiar with it on their plate.

And then that's. Two exposures versus just one. So it's a great idea to include kids in cooking. I do this with Junie all the time. Even she's my daughter. Even just, um, she's two, but she does pour the muffins and, you know, like do all the stuff. And she helped me make the gnocchi. It was the first time we'd ever had gnocchi actually.

And so she, she did like put the olive oil on it and all of that helps to get the kids involved for sure. With them being more familiar with the foods and more willing to try them.

Riley: and taking some ownership. I especially see this in my 6-year-old, if she makes something. 'cause she's almost a, okay, this is gonna sound unsafe. She can almost like make her own scrambled eggs. Like she can, she, she

Hannah: plenty. [00:39:00] Plenty of kids. Yeah. With supervision. She can definitely do it. And I think that kids should be learning skills like that. I'm a pro for sure.

Riley: But she like, as soon as she has made something. She will brag about it to be very honest. Brag is the right word. She'll be like, I made that. I made that. Do you love that? I made that. I made that. Well, it was the favorite thing on your plate, right? I made that

Hannah: She's like channeling us as moms.

Roni: Yeah.

Riley: yeah. Uh, yeah, she's, she's a tiny adult.

Um, but it, but that ownership is a big deal too, I think in meals, just

like being a part of the experience of cooking. And I think it's a big deal. So.

Hannah: I agree. Yeah. And so there's, there's a lot of ways to, um, with the snacks thing, it's just like, you know, those distinct snacks I think are really important. And then like, not too close to the dinner if you can help it. But cutting board bites, in my opinion, are always fair game.

Roni: Okay. I feel like we have given a lot of information here, so if. Somebody, if you have a mom who's just like, [00:40:00] wants like a calmer dinner tonight, what's like some simple, like what's like a couple simple tips you would give out of all of the stuff that we've already talked about?

Hannah: Yeah, so I would say that if you're sitting here and you want a calmer dinner that night. There's some things you can do, but really most of it starts earlier in the week, right? So it's like you do need to like back it up for the next week, but if you want a calmer dinner tonight, what you can do and what you can focus on more is, is selecting a meal that's actually.

Designed to fit within the time that you have to cook. I think that people underestimate this factor a lot in the stress. A lot of people are trying to cook a 60 minute meal in 30 minutes, and it's gonna cause stress. There's just no way around it. It's like you need to give yourself the time, or if you don't have the time, you need to do some prep ahead or select a recipe that can be done within the time.

So selecting a simple and time-bound recipe within the time that you have, and then from there, you know, cooking it. But again. [00:41:00] To create that calm, dinnertime environment, cooking it and kind of detaching your expectation of how good of a mom you are or how good you should feel in the meal from whether or not everybody enjoys this one meal is really, really important because you are doing your job.

You are nourishing your family, you're providing the food, and detaching yourself from like their. Initial experience on the first day, you know, as we're talking about the scenario, is really, really important to kind of create that calm environment and it creates less reactivity from you too, which I feel like sometimes contributes to the dinnertime chaos and the dinnertime tension is how mom is reacting to people's response to her meal.

Um, and so if you can kind of like. Decouple your, frankly, your sense of worth about the meal and maybe yourself from their reaction in that moment. It can create this cascade effect of calm. And so that's another thing is just like really focus on your stuff and providing, and then. You can continue to work [00:42:00] on the strategies to get the kids to accept the meals better, but that's not a one night thing.

It's gonna be a long process and there's a lot of tools to learn and there's a lot of things we can do in terms of prepping to make these meal times run smoother. But just those two things I think could really help moms who are like thinking about it tonight and then moving into the the rest of it another time and with more intentionality.

Riley: It's awesome.

Roni: Yeah.

That's great. Do you have any other questions? Riley

Riley: No, I think we could talk for a really long time about kids and food.

Hannah: Nice. And I think we probably could too. There's so much to cover, is why it's like this is, this is why like the coaching program, like this is why I am actually dealing with this with moms because it's like, it's not just a one conversation, it's like a process for sure. So I feel like we could go forever.

Riley: Yeah, I'm just thinking like how, and all of this goes out the window when you're at grandparents' house and like, and

Hannah: goodness. I couldn't, don't even get me started. Yeah.[00:43:00] 

Riley: I'm like snacks, snacks in particular, my kids, uh, because my, every, all of the grandparents live in different time zones, and so it's like snacks before dinner. I'm like, sure, sure, sure.

Hannah: We're like, we're like no sugar really. Before two is like kind of our family's like baseline. They're like, we're not crazy about it or anything like that. But he, my son who's 16 months old, gets nilla wafers like twice at my grandma, at his grandma's house, like every time he goes over there every week.

And honestly just like as a little note to that, I say not a huge deal. Like what happens in an environment that's not their typical environment is way less important than what happens in their typical environment. Let's focus on the typical environment, make sure that sets up for success. And then if he gets nilla wafers for grandma's house, I'm not like, you know, burned up about it.

It's fine.

Riley: On a, this is a little bit of a tangent, but I recently have run into two very random candies that my grandparents used to keep at their house, like in the grocery store. And one day I sent a picture to my husband and my comment on it was, I can [00:44:00] literally feel these stuck in my teeth. Like, 'cause it, whatever.

It's just a really sticky candy and I'm just thinking about your son and like. Not that all of our memories should be food related, but he's gonna be 25 and be like, oh, I used to eat those at my grandma's

Hannah: Oh, Nilla wafers at grandma's. I know, exactly. And that's like a great point that you're making There is, it's like we can't boil all this stuff down to like, the optimization shouldn't steal from the joy in those memories. And so, you know, I'm like totally good with it. Like my husband and I laugh about it.

She always has candy at her house, is my husband's mom. And it's like, yeah, it's just one of those things, but we would never like make a giant deal out of it unless it started to cause a problem and it's not. So

Riley: Yeah. Yeah.

Hannah: I love it.

Roni: Great.

Okay, Hannah, tell everybody how they can connect with you if they wanna work with you. How do they do that? Give us all the deets. 

Hannah: Yeah. Thanks again for having me, and I am on Instagram most of the time, so that's where you can find me. Mostly I'm Plant Forward families on Instagram, so that's Plant Families. You can find me there and please shoot me a message if you heard me through this podcast because [00:45:00] I'd love to connect with you.

And I do offer a number of different services. I do mostly private coaching and one-on-one coaching, so I do a lot. With, um, you know, a plant forward approach to wellness for all sorts of conditions. You know, if you want an anti-inflammatory diet or you want sustainable weight loss, I love working with all sorts of people with that.

But my main focus recently has been families, as you can probably tell, and my signature program is called Family Meals Made Simple. And so this is basically for moms who. Wanna go from that chaotic, disorganized, relying on takeout and their meal plan is just not working. Feeling to creating those confident and calm dinner times, and also focusing on their own health as well, because it's all, all part of it.

So I work specifically with moms to. Dig into all of these family feeding issues and make a clear, consistent, and repeatable system that works for your family, that also supports your health goals. That is my very favorite thing to do, is to support moms supporting [00:46:00] themselves while creating this system that creates calm and connection ultimately with their families.

So that things don't have to feel so chaotic and overwhelming every single week. So I would love to work with, um, any moms who feel like that really connects with them, reach out to me and you can apply for that program on my Instagram or on my website. And I'm, if this is kind of like. Hitting you guys and feeling like, okay, this is definitely something I need to think about more.

I actually do have a free masterclass coming up, that talks about the meal planning aspect. So it's, the topic of it is going to be five meal planning mistakes that are keeping. Evenings and dinner times chaotic. And then also how to fix them. And so this is actually completely free and I am gonna give you the exact mistakes that I see, the top five mistakes that I see moms making.

And then I'm going to give you the exact fixes within the masterclass of how you can make these like really subtle shifts and. Have a completely different mealtime experience, and that's all gonna be for free. And I'm hosting that on [00:47:00] April 30th at 10:00 AM Mountain Time, um, sorry, 11:00 AM Mountain Time.

And you can sign up for that. I can probably drop a link, um, on this show, and it'll be on my website at that point too, where you can sign up for it. It's live. And if you can attend live, I'd love to see you and connect with you, but if you can't, I'll replay will be sent out too. So just, it's not necessary to be live.

Riley: Will there be, um, will there be an option for like a q and a with you during that

Hannah: absolutely. So that's the, that's a really fun piece of live master classes. And this is a class that I'm teaching for the first time. I may not teach it again. I like to go through topics sometimes where I sort of teach on one thing. So this may be the only time I'll teach this meal planning one. But I love the q and a at the end, so you can expect maybe 40 minutes or so of me.

Diving into these mistakes, showing you the fix, and then we will definitely dive into some q and a. So if you have specific questions and you want my eyes on a problem that your family's experiencing or something with your kid or that kind of thing, I'd, I'd love [00:48:00] to chat with you then.

Riley: Awesome.

Roni: Beautiful. Okay. I do have one more question.

Hannah: Oh yeah. Let's hear.

Roni: you're a mom of two and you're running a business, and

I know you're an active person. How do you balance all this stuff?

Hannah: Oh my God, I, um, it's one of those things where I was like, I feel like a lot of. The time it, it feels a little unbalanced and I think that that's just natural and normal at this stage of life. My motto is relentless forward progress. And so it's like no matter how many times I get interrupted in my day, I have my, I have my path that I want to create that day, and I'm just gonna like, keep working towards it, even if the kid wakes up early for the nab.

Okay, then he's gonna come with me and we're gonna finish that caption that I'm running for Instagram, and then I'm gonna like, you know, I, I just kind of like try to weave it in and flow a little bit more. It doesn't happen perfectly and there's definitely been changes that I've had to make in my business, you know, to accommodate just the busyness of two little kids like this.

But I'd say that like. [00:49:00] Prioritizing what's important, getting support where you need it. Because there's even times like I, I'm not kidding. Like I was just talking to somebody today where I have been struggling with my breakfasts recently because I have not been following my own advice. The last week, you know, there was some crazy stuff that happened and I didn't have a grab and go breakfast that was ready for me.

So I've really been struggling and I haven't had like that great of an appetite for it. I'm like, somebody needs to be me. And tell me to how to set this up for success. And I do this to myself for myself a lot. Um, but just being real with you. Like it doesn't always flow like perfectly, but if you have somebody in your corner who's pointing out the spots that are gonna make the biggest difference for you, that's, I feel like a really important piece.

And so, you know, I, I coach myself, but I also enlist the support of my husband and friends and, you know, stuff like that to, uh, support me. But it's definitely a juggle. The struggle of the juggle is real.

Riley: awesome.

Roni: Well, thanks again for joining us. It was so great to chat with you. We'll definitely include [00:50:00] links to stuff in the description so that people can connect with you, masterclass.

Hannah: That would be great. Yeah, I'd love to see you guys live and connect with you on Instagram, so thanks so much for having me. This has been so fun.