Why we need to pay for adult content

The JellyFilledGirls on why paying for adult content is better for both the people making it and the people watching it.

Transcript

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Going where the silence is. The QUO podcast. Welcome to The QUO Podcast, I'm Sasha Jurac. As adult content continues to make waves on the web, an abundance of services and content aggregators offer erotic content freely. With one click, it's easier than ever for the casual viewer to watch what they want, when they want. But with the adult industry taking a massive hit, it's more important than ever to support the safety and creative freedom of people who are already marginalised by the work that they do. In this episode, I'm joined by the JellyFilledGirls on why paying for adult content is better for both the people making it, and the people watching it. Hey ladies, how are you? Hi. We're good. How are you? Doing splendidly. We were just having a lovely chat before, but, I guess for people who don't know about you, can you just tell us a little bit more about who you are, and what you do, and why you do it? Yeah, for sure. Absolutely. So well, my name is Sasha and this is my beautiful fiancee. I'm Alessia. I kind of threw that in there. So, we have a purpose where we like to continue making a point that ethical, realistic, and authentically loving, women love women, adult content is much more enjoyable and ethical to consume than, you know, your typical big, mainstream porn productions that involve, too often, straight actresses or actors playing a role. So in our case, we're actually a real couple. We're engaged and we're in love, and we're sharing our real-life intimacy on camera. We're hoping that people will realise the value and the relatability and the empowerment in watching something that is created, produced and directed by two real queer women, as opposed to a typical porn production that is, more often than not, I would say, obviously made for male audiences and put together by men. Of course, it's not always the case, but you know, more often than not, that's that's the reality, you know, and very often those kinds of scripted scenarios are quite unrealistic and not really representative of the reality of queer couples like us. I think that people nowadays are just looking for relatability and representation, and this is why we do what we do and why we've grown to be quite successful from it. Why more than ever is queer representation, particularly for queer women important in your industry? I don't think it's been done before? Yeah. It really, it was attempted. It was directed by men and it just was not, real. People were having, like, false ... they weren't understanding themselves, you know, watching that, they were like,"Is this the way I'm supposed to be?", or, you know, it just wasn't getting the right messages across. And so that's what we're here for. Yeah. And a lot of people would message us until today being, like,"Thank you so much for representing me in your content, because this is how I make love with my partner", you know, like, "this is what it actually looks like. Thank you. I feel represented. I feel seen. I feel heard and thank you for not having, like you know, five-inch nails, like you know, and just, you know, heels and lipstick and this and that. And just thank you for just being natural and real and showing what real, the beauty behind a real queer relationship, and the beauty behind queer intimacy, as well". As a lot of people might look at you, at face value, and have this preconception that, because you both look quite feminine, right? Mm hmm. What sort of, I guess, obstacles do you encounter in that regard? And how is your content actually breaking down the stereotypes of, you know say, masculine and feminine queer women in our community? It's interesting because there's, like, so many aspects to that question, like, it's typical. People typically, or stereotypically think that a lesbian relationship, or a women love women relationship, or a queer relationship, is a butchy woman and a feminine woman. Because, you know, there is the masculine, there's the feminine and they always go hand in hand. But it's not true. They don't always go hand in hand, you know, and the reality is that there are feminine, you know, women love women couples out there, just like us, who also need representation. There's all kinds of different types of relationships out there. And maybe sometimes we both look very feminine in our videos because we're just wearing thongs and bras. But like, you know, we also wear clothes too. And sometimes we wear sweatpants and wifebeaters and, you know ... And we wear them in our videos, too. We're not always in thongs and G strings ... Yeah, we're not always super feminine either. We're very versatile. We have videos where we show, like, us in lingerie and looking more sexy, which is true because off camera we'd like, we enjoy doing that for one another, sometimes to spice things up or whatnot. But then there's also videos where our hair is a mess, we just got out of the shower, our hair still wet and we're wearing sweatpants and a tube top. And it's just like, because that's also real, and that's also how sometimes, you know, things go down. And so we're just, we're just trying to portray our relationship as authentically as we can, as two feminine women. And you know, the person on the receiving end will feel it. If they know it's, if they know it's true and they feel represented, they will feel the authenticity behind our content. How long have you been around for? We're going on our third year now, so we've been around since 2019. Oh, that's awesome. I guess along the way, like I've seen on your, like even your Instagram, and even Pornhub, you know, you've just been growing exponentially since then, but ... yeah, like where and how large is your audience? It's pretty spread out because we're on multiple platforms now, and some of them are ranging in, like, view counts, or follower counts, or subscriber counts, so it's hard to give an actual answer because some of that is, like, private, like you don't see subscriber count [on] OnlyFans. But on Pornhub, for example, you see that we have 55 million views, over 61,000 subscribers, and on Instagram, we have a private account, so we've hand-picked, like, accepted everyone over time and we're at like 25,000 now. We're about to hit that, I think, and ... 25,000 people that we've like, manually filtered through and accepted, just to try and make sure that we like, don't let the crazies in ...... or like, bots and things like that. But, we have also other platforms like, we have Fansly and LoyalFans, too. So I think in total, we have a decent amount all around, but we're not focusing so much on our free platform as much anymore, not trying to grow a lot of views on there. So if we were, then it probably would have been much higher by now, but we're just focusing on more paywalls. We have known each other, I can't believe, we've known each other for quite some, some time now. Yes, we have. It's been a journey. It has been, and it's been a pleasure too. Likewise, and you know, I just remember when I first interviewed you, this was around, what? This was last year already, wasn't it? It was like last April, I think. And I just remember when I had come across you guys on Pornhub, and reading through the comments from your fans was just unlike anything I have ever seen. You know, it was just, you know, it was just such a nice change, you know, to see that ... Yeah, a breath of fresh air there, right? Yeah, and so unlikely to like, such a such a pleasant surprise to come across that on a website like that too. You don't expect it. Tell us a little bit more about your fan base, and yeah, the community that you've created along the way. Yeah, absolutely. Well, we have a very, very special fan base, as you know. They're amazing. Yeah, our fan base, I think we would say, is largely made up of women actually. Both heterosexual and queer. We're known to be very community-centred, in the sense that, we do many things, and many activities that bring people, and our fans together. So like, I'll give you an example, like, in the beginning of the pandemic, we would do quite a bit of video game streaming. Which allowed people from all over the world to come together and live chat with one another, and with us as well. It's always really fun, and people made, like, lifelong friendships and romances through platforms like that. Really? Yeah, it's great. Like, we have fans, like, booking flights and tickets and stuff to meet each other, and like, flying to see one another and, you know, chatting every day, and ... relationships forming. We even have a few people getting married, like ... it's just incredible. It's incredible the way that people have been connected through this, and it's so beautiful because it's so unlikely. Like, you would never think, you know, that in following your favourite adult content creator you meet the love of your life. Like, it's kind of, it's just beautiful in that sense. It's amazing that you have created this community, because I mean, in many places around the world, there are still many countries where there aren't as many safe spaces for queer women, let alone, any queer people to actually connect. So it's just, you know, I can see why ... Oh, it's incredible. Like, we've had people tell us that, like, we've saved them from committing suicide because they had no one to talk to. They're living in like super conservative countries and like, they have very homophobic family members, and very homophobic surroundings. And it's just like, in connecting people like that online, especially in the pandemic, where, like a lot of people found themselves, like, alone because of the lockdowns and whatnot. We've like, helped people come out of like depression, and like, the way that we connected them to other people that like, were living with similar situations and they were able to like, relate to one another, and uplift each other and whatnot. And it's just really, really beautiful. It's really beautiful and, it kind of happened at like, the perfect timing like, we started live video game streaming during the pandemic when I think a lot of people really needed it. So it was just really, really nice. But also I think the fact that people could see our true nature during those live streams, and how we interact with one another as a couple, and how we goof around with one another and, you know, stuff like that. It made them see us in a very different light than just adult content creators. Like, they got to see the depth of us as human beings, you know. They get to see that we're real people, with real feelings, and we would often share with them, like, how our day went, and like, struggles that we're having or ... you know, just so many things that just make us people, just like them, and being able to show and share our humanity with our fans. I think it really reinforced the relatability aspect of what we do, which in turn, of course, reinforced their loyalty to us. And so it's been really unexpectedly beautiful. And it's just showing, you know, the multi-faceted dimensions of an authentic relationship, as opposed to just, you know, it's not just all about the sex. So I mean, the live streaming has added that extra dimension to ... Most definitely. And people always tell us, like, JellyFilledGirls, if you know, you know, like you're ... like, people know that we're not, like, it's so much more than just adult content and so much more than just sex, you know. It goes so much deeper than that. Looking at the way in which we consume content now, you know, we're conditioned to think that it is our, so us as the consumers, that it's our, let's say God-given right, that it's free. And it sort of taps into this whole thing around, you know how they say the best things in life are free? Yeah. Why do we need to pay for pleasure? Because pleasure is arguably something that comes to us for free? Mm hmm. Well, that's a very valid question. I have quite a bit to say about that, but like, basically, ethically speaking, if you're someone that actually cares for the creators, or the performers, that you enjoy watching regularly, paying for that creator's content goes a really long way in their overall wellbeing and especially, especially women creators. It goes without saying when you pay for a creator's content, you're allowing that person to actually make a decent living. They can pay for their bills and get their hard work's worth. And yes, it is absolutely hard work. You know, it's absolutely hard work. We don't just, people are like, "Oh, ho-hardy, ho-hardy [sic], you just have sex on camera and you share it". No, no, no, like this ... it's so much deeper than that. It's so much more than that. It's a lot of hard work. It's more than a full time job. Trust me. And the reality is that being on free platforms doesn't make you much money. Like, let's be real, you know. Only a select few websites actually pay the creators or the people that upload content, and it usually depends on the amount of views that they have. And we can confirm that it's actually not that much. This is something that people don't know ... For sure. Like, I was just about to say, people get fooled by the amount of like, views, or popularity that someone can have, or be as a performer on these websites. But like, let's say you see like a million views, like someone on their profile has a million views. It doesn't mean that they're making a million dollars. It's really, it's far from that actually. So like, paying for the creator, paying the creator to access their content, you're actually allowing them more control over their content and over their own copyrights. You're allowing them more control over their income, over their autonomy, their freedom, and especially their personal safety, and much more. But you know, like, we want to emphasise that being behind a paywall as a woman, like, prevents a whole lot of safety concerns, and that's including, but not limited to, you know, harassment, bullying, cyber stalking, and all that fun stuff. So it's really, it really does add an extra solid layer of security and safety for women. Yeah, it also like, helps prevent never-ending content theft, which is a huge problem and headache for creators on free websites. On top of that, being on free websites is also a headache for the viewers too. And we've spoken about this before with you, where, you know when you're cruising through websites and you're constantly getting bombarded with disgusting or demeaning sex advertisements and your computer gets flooded with viruses and you get spammed with content that you don't want to see, like on the sides, you know. I would literally block it out with my hand like ... Yeah, or you got to like, do this zoom-in or something, or full screen it. It was like my profile is set up as queer, and the algorithm knows that, and I only watch queer content, but I'm constantly getting straight ads of men, dominating women, and degrading them on the sides, or underneath, or that's the next video that comes up. And it's like ... Like monster sex ... Yeah, just really weird stuff. Like, as if they're trying to curb my appetite and it just pisses me off. Like, do they think that if they blast my page with enough, like, 10-inch penises that I'm suddenly going to start loving dick? Like, God, just leave me alone. Like, when you're on a paywall, it just gives you clean quality content from the person that you signed up to see, your favourite creator, and only that creator. So there's no ads, there's no viruses, there's no disturbing, unwanted content that spams you. And to me, that sounds, like, much more pleasurable. So ... I mean, who can argue that really? Look, I'm going to be devil's advocate here, you know me, I'm just going to get into it, but ... We love to see it. But there's, you know, people who can't afford to pay these platforms, you know what I mean? You know, there are just simply disadvantaged people, or less fortunate people who can't necessarily pay for all these platforms. And also, there's just a lot of platforms now to keep up with, you know, we've got Netflix, we've got I mean, I don't know what's in other parts ... Netflix and Hulu, or what have you ... HBO, you've got, like, Disney, or so many things. What about these people who can't afford to pay? And is that limiting them from accessing pleasure? Because that's, some people might think that's a valid argument. Yeah, yeah. And it totally is. But my my answer to that would be that, this applies to everything in life. You can't be fair to everybody. Like, I mean, you can try your best to be as fair as you possibly can within your own comfort zones and your own limitations. But, you know, you're going to have people who can afford it, and people who simply can't afford it, and that's the reality of life. You will have people who prefer to pay for a monthly subscription, say on Netflix, in order to access quality ad-free TV shows, documentaries and movies. But you're also going to have people who prefer to browse the web for free, stolen or ripped TV shows, and, you know, movies and documentaries, and are OK with putting up with the viruses and tasteless ads that come with free websites like that. So I think essentially it's up to the creator to decide what works best for them and what rate works best for them and their livelihoods. I mean, after all, we're the ones putting ourselves out there in our most vulnerable states for the world to watch, you know. We're people, we're not products. And I really think it's important to remember that. Our work is just as valid as any other type of work, service or subscription. And you know, at the end of the day, it's not our job to think about everyone's feelings and what they can or cannot afford. We have to do what works best for us, for, like I said, our comfort levels and for our own personal livelihoods, and especially for our safety too. There is big safety aspect that goes into that as well that people tend to forget about, especially as women. And I think, yeah, just going into this safety issue, you know, I think this is something that people don't, I suppose, fully understand about the work that you do. Yeah, or they just simply overlook it, yeah. Why? I mean, why though? Why do you think that's the case? Being behind a paywall, when you're on a free site, your videos get passed around all over the web. All these other free sites, stream it directly and share it all on, like, you'll upload it on one's website and then in a couple of weeks, it'll be on 20 different websites. And if you have 100 videos on your profile, it's going to be all those 100 videos, basically, you'll have 2,000 videos out there because it'll just gets passed around, and spread, and ... People try to benefit off of your work ... You're the one who made the video and all these other websites are broadcasting it and getting the views and getting money off of it. Yeah. And it's just not fair. And we know our worth. We absolutely know our worth and we know how much hard work goes into what we do, and we deserve to make a decent living off of it. So I think, it just prevents a whole lot of issues, a lot of headaches. It also taps into the shame, I think, that women have, as well, with being creators of the content, but also women consuming this content. Well, you'd think that there's not a lot of women consuming it, but in our experience, we have way more women willing to pay and support content like ours than men. We have by far more women subscribed to us, and supporting us. And speaking from personal experience, it's often men who don't understand paying for content or who have a problem with it. We don't want to sound like we're putting all men in the same box because we do have men who have been subscribed to us for a long time and they truly appreciate our content and they've expressed it to us. But we've experienced it firsthand, and other content creators have had similar experiences in regards to like, people having problems, paying with, paying for their content. And it wasn't women that were complaining. I mean, it's unfortunate, but right now that's the reality that we're experiencing. And obviously, we hope this changes as people become more aware, and more educated on the realities of adult content creation. But there are definitely a lot of women paying for it. And so there's no need to feel some type of way about it because it's becoming more common, slowly. It is. And I guess that says something about women as well, right? That we will actually support the people behind behind the camera and that ... Yep, they do. Yep. I think women have, especially when it comes to like, sexuality, and like, empowerment and stuff. I think when they see another woman expressing her own, you know, sexuality in like, a healthy way, and feeling empowered from it, it also empowers them. And then they want to support that because it's like, it's kind of, it kind of goes into like feminism as well. It taps into that a little bit. Or it's like women supporting women, you know. They understand the struggle, they understand what it took for us to put ourselves in this situation. They understand the level of vulnerability and bravery that it takes for us to do what we do. And so they want to, like, encourage and support that because as women, it's a totally different experience than men in the industry. It's totally different. How? How is that, out of curiosity? There's a lot more at stake, you know, like in terms of like just typical patriarchal bullshit, like our reputation and like, you know what people will say about us, the judgement, people's lack of education around women's sexuality, and like, women's pleasure, like there's so much ... there's a serious lack of education around. And there's a problem too, like, we were discussing a little bit about that before we started recording. But like, it's like no matter what you do as a woman, you're always, you're always going to get judged. You're always shamed. If you express your sexuality in a healthy way, all of a sudden people are shaming you for that. If you're asexual and ... whatever like, you're going to get judged. Like, people are going to shame you for that. When in reality, there's nothing wrong with either or, whether you're a very sexual person, or you're someone that's not sexual at all, or whether you're very conservative, or you're someone that's very open. There is no shame in either or, but it's for society, and especially in the patriarchal, from the patriarchal perspective, there's so much to be ashamed about in both aspects. It's like, there's nothing that we can do that people can really agree with, and like root for us, you know. That's just the reality that women have to live with in their day-to-day lives, but let alone in the industry, you know, when it comes to sex work. And I think ... and expanding upon, you know, women in the industry, I guess outsiders may perceive women getting into the industry as just simply, "Oh, it's quick and easy money", you know. It's so not quick and easy money. And it's not about that for us. It's really not about that. It's not about that at all. You know, we have a purpose. We have a message. We want to create a movement. You know? The money comes afterwards, as like a nice bonus to what we do, but that's not what we're focusing on, you know. It's like, we're really passionate about what we do. We're passionate about the message that we're trying to deliver. There's a lot of love in our content, you know. And I think that's why, you know, that goes to explain why you have predominantly women paying for your content. It makes perfect sense. For sure. Because, you know, I'm coming into this as the consumer. Not that I would personally consume your content, I just feel like we're too close. That's OK, your friendzoned us. Oh, she friendzoned us? No way. How did I not hear about this? We'll work through that. You probably blocked it out. She told us before, but you blocked it out. It's OK. But look, you know, coming into this as a female consumer, you know, that's why, I'm just so grateful to have a friendship with you guys because, you know, I just feel that, you know, I learn as we, you know, have gotten to know each other more. You know, just learning about unlearning my own biases in this area and, look, I personally don't consume as much adult content as say, I'm not sure, maybe some other people, but, you know, just sort of touching upon my own experiences. You know, when I do want to consume adult content, I feel that I am sort of preconditioned to just go to Pornhub and, you know, find free content there. Yeah. And I think it taps into, I suppose, this stigma that I have, and I'm sure that, you know, I'm not alone here, that a lot of women would have actually consuming this content. And I guess, what I'm trying to ask you here is, how can we, as the consumers, particularly female consumers, sort of break down our stigma towards consuming this content? Yeah, I mean, the type of content that we make, educates and empowers women and their sexuality right? It educates and empowers women and their pleasure as well, and even then, their romantic intimacies. And this is one of the reasons why we believe our content is more appealing to women, like you said. And once again, it boils back to feeling seen and represented and offering content that feels relatable to women and to their own personal pleasure. And I think that we're in a historical time where we're seeing more and more awareness being built around the female sexuality and pleasure. More and more women are opening up about their sexuality, and the type of content they enjoy. So, I mean, we personally think there is a positive movement and shift that's going on, almost, at the moment. And I mean, there was definitely a time when women were made to feel ashamed of consuming adult content. They would you know, feel dirty and like, gross about doing it. But I think now things are taking a different direction, and we feel pretty optimistic about the way things are headed. And at the end of the day, we firmly believe that more relatable, ethical, and quality adult content focused on female pleasure and geared towards the female gaze. And not only that, but all gazes in general would truly help in making the consumption of adult content a lot less stigmatising for women. Yeah, because you know, a lot of the free content that's out there, as you said, you know, predominantly produced by men and it does have a certain gaze about it, to put it lightly, and I think, in a way that degrades the woman, or I think, objectifies the woman and ... Most definitely. And who wants to feel that when they're watching that? Like as a woman, you know, who wants to see another woman get thrown around, and invaded, and demeaned, like it's just... it doesn't make female consumers feel good and empowered about their sexuality, you know. It totally sends off the wrong message, I think. And you know, I personally believe that if adult content was more geared towards all gazes and not just the male gaze, like I'm being fair here, like all gazes, I think a lot more women would feel a lot less shame consuming it because it wouldn't be made to make them feel like shit, to put it lightly, you know what I mean? You won't feel that dirty gross feeling afterwards, you're going to feel empowered, and you're going to feel normal, and you're going to feel human. And I think that's really, really important. And I think that plays a huge role as to why, you know, when you look at those stats, you know why much more men consume porn than women. Like, every single woman ... that I've ever spoken to, even in my own personal life, like, we all watch porn. It's a natural, normal thing to do. You know, and we all do, but we all agree that good porn is so hard to find, you know, like it's just, we all agree that it's just really; it's not welcoming for the female gaze, like it just, it's really not welcoming. It's not made for us. So of course, we're going to feel shame. And just for free porn out there for everyone in general, a lot of that free porn is kind of, a fraction of the real video. Like, you might not realise this, but when you're watching a video on for like anywhere, for example, Pornhub and its production company, they're showing you their short version. Whereas, if you were to pay for their services, or pay for their channel, or subscribe to them, then you get the full video, which is like an hour long, which is like, yeah, exactly, sometimes an hour long. But on the free websites, you only see 10, 15, maybe 20 minutes of it. If you're lucky. So that's not the whole video. It's just the free version. Of course they'll focus on like, the male happy ending as well, and that's when the video ends, or whatever. If you are enjoying this episode, please support us by rating and reviewing this podcast, visiting our website thequo.com.au, and following us on our socials, using the handle @thequoau. It's interesting as well, because personally speaking, when I've consumed adult content, I don't feel the overt or visceral sort of shame and disgust when I consume it, which I don't know if that makes it more disturbing. You know, that once you consume, it's like, it's as if it's a subconscious sort of shame that we have. You mean, like sometimes you just go there, just to like, quickly get off and you just move on with your day. Yeah. You're not invested, right? It's just like ... Yeah, but be careful. I mean, not be careful, but I mean, it does have a very, very subtle, sneaky effect on our subconscious. Like, I remember growing up, like, when I was much younger and I would like surf the web for the first time, like porn for the first time. And I would see these, like, graphic freaking videos and visuals, and I would be like,"Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. Like, this is like over-fucking-whelming.". Like, I did not think sex looked like that. I did not think it was so intense, and so aggressive, and so loud, so rough, so obnoxious. Like, "What is this?", like, "Are penises really that huge?", like ..."Are boobs really that big?"."I don't even look like this?", like, "Why is she screaming like that? Is she in pain or is she actually enjoying herself?". You know, like all these questions. And then you think that you're supposed to do that too, and it's just like, in time, it messes with you. It sneaks up on you over time ... And I read, I watched something on Goop where they talk about like the breathing. Remember? Where like women in porn, they're like [panting] like, they're breathing like that, and it's like, so exaggerated. And that actually puts your body in a state of shock, like anxiety, and just trying to survive because it thinks that you can't ... you're making your body think that you're having trouble breathing, and it actually is not good for your, like just generally you're ... tricking your body into thinking that it's in like a danger. So, it's just like, it's not natural ... You're breathing kind of tricks your body into tensing up, and then you tense up, and then sex is more painful because we all know that when you tense up, it's like, things don't flow as well. And it's just, you don't get lubricated enough, and you know, you start to get in your head and it's just like, it's crazy. Like the effects, the negative effects can really sneak up on you. When you're masturbating by yourself, you don't go [panting] you know? Get a drink of water. That's what I would say in those situations. Yeah, so it's just not realistic. To just expand upon what you were saying just then. I think it also, I think as women, when we're sort of, engaging in sexual relations as well, with that, sort of, background knowledge of consuming this free content, right? That we come into new sexual encounters and scenarios with this sort of image, or this expectation that, to perform in that same way, you know, with that other person, or people. Not to mention, I think, you know, I wonder whether that affects the way we look at sexual relations and encounters with people, be it, you know, casual or intimate, you know? Whether that has an influence in the way that we use sex as a means, like, for romantic or external validation. Do you know where I'm getting at with that? Oh yeah, most definitely. It's like you almost feel like you need to put on an act ... it's a performance, it becomes a performance, as opposed to like a natural, instinctual connection with another person. But look, I just want to get into, because with all this in mind, I mean, this is, as you said before, this is what really prompted you to actually start creating authentic content for our community, which you know is amazing. Can I just say that this is actually something of a passion to you guys? Yeah. But can you tell me a little bit more about your journey sort of leading up to, sort of thinking about, and stewing over the idea of starting to create your own channel, and yeah. Can you just tell us a little bit more about that journey? Pretty much like, when we started, we were on Pornhub, and we were only on Pornhub in the beginning. We started to create content and stuff like that, and at first it was it was kind of like, "Well, we're having a really hard time finding content that we personally enjoy". So I mean, we're a real couple, we love sex, I have some knowledge on filming and editing, so why don't we put something together? See what happens. Yeah, why don't we just record ourselves and put it out there and see what happens? You know, like, I mean, there is a serious lack of it, and so let's bring it onto the website and see how people respond, you know. And the response was just incredible, like incredible. Like within the first month we were, we had over a million views and it was just grew from there at an insane speed. And so that kind of like made us, you know, we thought we were going to just do this for a little bit and just, you know, move on with our lives and just whatnot. But then we were like, "Holy shit, this is ... people need this", like this is ... They were telling us, they need it. They were freaking out. They're like, "Oh my God, thank the lord you guys came about", like, "I could never find anything that made any sense for me", like, "please don't ever leave", like, "Oh my God, thank you so much for what you're creating", and all that. So their response and feedback was incredibly powerful and positive, and we were like,"You know what?", like, "This feels really good, and this is real. This is authentic. This is absolutely beautiful and totally aligned with our values, and us as a couple, and as people. So let's keep doing it. And you know, like, let's keep doing it. Let's just see where it goes, let's embark on that journey and see where it takes us". But so, yeah, we were doing that for a while on Pornhub. And then after a little while, though, we got kind of fed up because, like we were talking to you [about] before, there's a lot of issues and headaches that come about when you give your, when you offer your content for free. People take advantage of it. As women, you know, we were just dealing with all sorts of, like headaches and stuff. So we got fed up. So we decided to take a different route. We decided to only feature teasers of our videos on Pornhub and then go behind the paywall for our full length videos in order to avoid all of that headache and also gain ... like make a better living off of that, of course. But also like, gain so many more benefits like, just peace of mind, and quality consumers, and just like, have more control over our content and stuff like that, like so many reasons, you know. So we went behind a paywall, we went behind OnlyFans at first and then with time, we also decided to diversify and go feature our content, also on Fansly and on LoyalFans. Our biggest platform is OnlyFans right now, for sure. And we use Pornhub just as a way to let people know that we exist and where to find us, basically. Look, I'm sure a lot of people, let's get down to the nitty gritty, because I'm sure people will be curious about this. It's sort of like, you know, we look at YouTube influencers and we wonder how much money they make, you know, based on their videos. But yeah, look, how much do you get paid on Pornhub? It's roughly about 60 cents per 1,000 views. I think it's a bit more now. It might have been a bit more, might be a bit less. I don't know what's going on with the credit card situation. But, fans also have the option of tipping which was really helpful for us when we were on there. And you can buy videos, but they take a cut of 20 to 30 per cent, depending on what it is. Like, I think for custom videos, it's 30 per cent. So for you to be making a decent living on there, you have to have an insane amount of views, or do a lot of custom videos, or something along the lines of that, which is why we mentioned earlier that having a lot of views is like an illusion. You're not making a lot of money, to be honest. The reality is different. People just don't know that, you know. Getting a little bit more technical because if you sort of balance how much you get paid on Pornhub versus how much money and resources it takes to actually produce these videos, would you say that it was worth it? Absolutely not. Absolutely not. It's not enough to make a decent living. And it's really, it doesn't match the level of hard work and yeah, the level of hard work and quality that we put into our content, for sure. And we're two people. So, yeah, people forget about that, too. This is one income for two people. So it's like, it's not a lot. At first we had our own jobs, like, on the side to sustain us while doing that, because it just wasn't enough. This is the name of the game, isn't it? This is where, at least, you and I can relate, you know, when you're trying to transition to this work. And people, I think, tend to forget just the amount... Creative pursuits, I think people fail to realise sometimes just how consuming it is. It takes a lot of time. And, when you're trying to, you know, produce high-quality content whilst trying to maintain a job to pay the rent, you know, I think this is something that people just don't fully realise. Yeah, absolutely. And we're considered, we were considered creators that are very successful on Pornhub. Like we were on the awards in 2020, like we had multiple award nominations and for personal reasons, we asked them not to feature us in the awards at the time, but we had multiple award nominations for our content. To be honest, the amount of... The financial... Remuneration. How do you say that word? Remuneration? Yeah, that we made from that is not reflective of award-nominated content, like it just ... it just does not reflect it. Yeah. So that's why OnlyFans changes the game. Yeah, OnlyFans, and like, all paywalls. Like, this is where we really started to like, you know, make a decent living off of our work, for sure. And, you know, deservingly so. You moved to OnlyFans, you know, to, let's say, preserve the integrity of your content. How has that experience been, and how has your experience been different on OnlyFans by comparison to Pornhub? So it's really different. Being behind a paywall, like, OnlyFans gives you control over what rate you set for someone to access your content. I mean, they do take a cut off of everything like the subscribers and tips, but also you need to factor that into your price. But at least you know what you're going to make because it's really clear. You set the price, and you see how many subscribers you have that month. And every time you get a subscriber, you see it reflected in the earnings right away. Whereas with free platforms, I don't know how all of them work, but your view count does keep growing. And yes, your earnings are growing slowly, very slowly, and they show every day, but it's just not as clear and it's hard to track. So you kind of just have to trust their calculations, whereas with like OnlyFans, it's like you're, you know, I mean, is being calculated for you, but it makes sense. It's really clear, it makes sense. And you, you see it. You can do your own math and just, you know, know exactly what you're going to make, you know. You're in charge of marketing yourself and finding creative ways to let people know that you exist, and that your content is worth paying for. Like, this is all technically free labour, right? Like, but it's worthwhile. So it's definitely a worthwhile investment in yourself as a creator, and it could really pay off once you build enough exposure and a solid subscriber base. And distinguishing yourself from, you know, similar creators, so to speak. Yeah, which is where, which is why we use Pornhub as a way to just give people a little glimpse of, like, what we're about and where they can find us, so that they can see like the extended version of our work and everything that we create. I remember when we were having a chat about this one time, and I think transitioning to OnlyFans seems to have worked out for you, because didn't you say that you're in the, like, top 10 or 1 per cent of OnlyFans creators as a result? Yeah, 0.15 per cent. No, I mean, it's been great, but I think Pornhub helps a lot to let people know. Like, we create like, really nice teasers, like, gives them a really good idea of what we're about and the quality of our content. And like, a little bit about the approach that we take in our content creation, and who we are as people. So it's been really helpful in guiding traffic to OnlyFans in that sense. But I think, like, we're really lucky because we've gotten to a point where JellyFilledGirls, like people know especially queer people ... It's a lot of word of mouth. Yeah, a lot of word of mouth, like a lot of people know who we are, especially in the community. Like, in the straight world, maybe not, but in the queer community more often than not, if you say JellyFilledGirls, people will know. Because we're not, you know, there's not many of us out there. But it's interesting that you said that you also have straight women, also consuming your content. Yeah. Oh yeah. Straight couples. Lots of couples, too. Yeah. Yeah, like, what draws them to your content, do you think? Well, no one's 100 per cent straight, you know? Well, let's not get into that bit ... That's for another episode. Yeah. A whole other episode for that ... a whole season, even. But honestly, like, we've had men even tell us that they are so grateful that they came across our content because they are now able to properly educate their partner on, like, sexuality. Please their partner. Yeah, please their partner, like, sexually and like, fulfil them and they understand, like, how to work around a woman's body like, so much more. And they're just like, "Oh my god", like, "I had no idea that sex was like, that a woman's pleasure is like, so much more than like, I've never seen women's pleasure displayed like this before". Your partner is not a porn star, she doesn't want to be fucked like a porn star, you know. Like, kind of be more realistic. Yeah, it's just, they've just been saying like, you like expanded ... Experiences, knowledge ... they've tried new things. And sensitivity towards the female pleasure. Hats off to those men, by the way. Shout out to the men out there. 100 percent. Hats off to these guys. They're like, yeah, no, they're they're great and like, I'm so happy when they message us and saying, like,"Thank you so much. Because of you I can pleasure my wife or my partner so much more", "Because of you, we're not filing for divorce anymore, like we worked through our sexual blockages and like our, you know, we were able to regain our sex lives back and like, it's just so wonderful". I think we give a lot of straight couples ideas, like a lot of different ideas. Because straight sex, the way that it's displayed on porn, like we all know, it's very basic. It's, what do you got? You got blowjob. If you're lucky, you got cunnilingus. If you're lucky. If you're lucky. If you're lucky as well, you got a little bit of fingering, but then mainly intercourse, intercourse, intercourse and then cumshot, that's it, video's done. So it's kind of like, that's like, what they know of, you know? And then they look at our videos and they're like, "Woah! Sex is so much more than just that. There's like so much more that you can do with your partner". Like, I mean, everything that we do to each other, almost everything that we do to each other, a man is perfectly capable to do with his wife, you know what I mean, or with his partner. So it's kind of like really expanding their knowledge in that department, like, in a way that they've never seen before. And of course, their partners are interested, too, and they're happy and satisfied. So of course they're into it. Because it's not just all about penetration. You know, this is sort of the misconception that unfortunately, perhaps a lot of men do have. You know, we're so lucky to have just so many different bits about us. Yeah, and also one more thing though, I think it's really important that I forgot to mention is, relating to that exact question is, I think couples really enjoy watching us because they can really see and feel the intimacy and the love between us, and they can relate to that. Like, our videos is really not about, I mean, for the listeners that have never seen us before, like. Our videos, yes, it's sexy, it's kinky. Of course, there's like kinky aspects to it, of course. But the thing that really shocks people about our videos is there's so much love, like, there's so many acts of love, and tenderness, and respect, and communication in our videos that I think a lot of couples can benefit from when they watch us. And they can relate to that and they can really learn from as well. So I think just seeing a real couple being genuinely intimate and loving and passionate and tender towards one another is a beautiful thing to share with your partner. And they even like to follow us on Instagram and Twitter because it's not just about sex, you know. Like, our intimacy and our love, it starts, like, in the morning when you wake up. It's the cute things that we do for each other and we share a little glimpse of that every once in a while. That transcends into the beautiful relationship that we have and the beautiful love that we make and the passion that you see in our videos. It's kind of like ... yeah. That's a piece of us. And, I guess if there's any advice that you can impart in this episode, what advice can you impart to people on how to be more intimate with their partners? Watch our videos and take notes. Have a pen and a notepad nearby. And then kind of like, just to retouch like what I was just saying. Like, sex isn't just in the bedroom, and it's not just sex, you know. Like, a lot of women are more, like, mental and you got to kind of like, you've got to treat your woman right, you know. You got to take good care of them. You gotta, you know, do nice things for each other and kind of like build the intimacy up like throughout the day or the week or, you know, and then that'll make your sex 10 times better. That's a good tip. 100 per cent, beautiful tip. And I will add to that communication. Like, frickin communicate. Speak up about what you like and what you don't like. And there's, I don't know why, well, I do get it. I get why people can be reserved about that. But there are so many ways to make it sexy. Communication can be so sexy in bed. And I think that's one thing that we display in our videos quite well is like, she'll be doing something to me and I'll just be like, "OK, right there. You're on it. Like, Keep going", you know, like, or it's like, "a little gentler", or like, "can you go a little faster? Can you go a little slower?". And you never see that in porn videos. You never see that level of communication between the two people, regardless if they're men, if they're a man, or a woman, or whatever. It can be done in such a sexy way, and I think it's one of the most, most, most important things in, not just in your relationship, but in your sex life as well. That's my biggest advice is communicate, and find ways to make the communication sexy in a way that makes you feel good about it, in a way that makes you feel empowered, you know. And in a way that builds the, you know, trust and security. Yes, 100 per cent and the connection and everything. Like, maybe if you find it difficult for you to express yourself with your partner in bed and communicate what you want, maybe you can practice it, maybe through texts, like, that day be like, "OK, tonight, this is what I would like. I would like this, this, this, and this", and kind of like, ask in advance, or kind of give a heads up of what you really want on that day. This is what you're feeling, this is, you know, maybe like, "I don't want penetration today. I want this, this and this", you know. Like, if you're shy, you can maybe communicate, like, in different ways, you know. It doesn't just have to be during sex as well, like you can discuss afterwards, like you can totally have a talk with your partner and just be like, "So, like, tell me what you thought. Like, was there anything that I did that like, really stood out to you that you want me to do again? Is there something that maybe you can skip, like that you, if you had a choice, you can like skip over?". There are so many ways to communicate and really get to know your partner's body and their pleasure on a much deeper level in a way that makes you closer and builds the trust, like you said. Yeah. Going back to your content, you know, so you've got your teasers on Pornhub and you have your long-form content on OnlyFans and also Fansly and Loyal Fans, you said. But how has ... You got it. Yeah. Like how has putting your long-form content on these subscriber platforms changed the quality of your content? Oh, it's better in so many ways. Like, on Pornhub, we had to keep in mind the algorithm and a much larger, broader audience, of course. You basically post a video with a title and whoever finds it, finds it. If you're lucky, they might give you a thumbs up or a comment, but it pretty much ends there. Whereas on OnlyFans, you have so much more freedom, and it's a much more intimate personal space for the creator, and for subscribers too I would say. And it allows you to express, well I'm going to speak for myself, that it allows us to express our creativity in so many different ways. Depending on who you subscribe to, your OnlyFans experience can be completely different from one creator to another. Which is really nice, it makes every subscription very unique on its own. We've posted much longer videos on OnlyFans, like we've posted audio-only content even on OnlyFans. Like erotic ASMR-style content. We've posted exclusive photo albums, collaborations, stories, fun polls and so much more, which ... Fun polls, what's that? Polls ... Like, to get feedback like ... you can get feedback on OnlyFans, whereas you can't do that on the free platforms. You know like, we'll ask a question, we'll kind of throw up some ideas and then do a poll and get feedback and then we can gear our content. Yeah, it's kind of based on that. So it's a lot more fan engaging. Yeah, for sure. And it's all, like it's got so many fun features that are not available on free adult websites you know. You know, all that being said, how does paying for adult content empower us, as the viewers and the consumers? I think by knowing that you're, you as a viewer, are allowing the creator to make a decent living through your support, it motivates the creator to continue to create and, you know, through that direct support. And, you know, the consumer and the subscriber, like even though they might not know it, they're making a big difference in our lives. They might not know it, but they definitely are. They're allowing us like, we've mentioned it before, but they're allowing us to make a decent living, and pay our bills, and pay our taxes, and you know, put a roof over our head and everything like, just like we know we deserve. For me, that's very empowering. To be able, through my support, allow someone else to live a decent life. To me, that means everything. It's just a human thing to do to another human. How is your content changing the way that we see adult content? I think the fact that we are a real couple in love and we're displaying our real intimacy and real sex through high-quality videos, it kind of makes the viewer wonder, like, why watch mainstream scripted productions that either aren't relatable or realistic, or that degrade women. Like, I think our content is ... because it's really well done, and it's really authentic, and there's a lot of love and passion in it, I think it's opening up people's minds about who they should support and what they should consume. I think it's a really, really important seed planting, I should say, that we're doing right now. We're just planting little seeds in people's heads and making them re-question or re-evaluate their choices and, what they consume basically. You know, like, is it really worth it to go support mainstream productions that are gearing their content for a totally different audience than me? Like, is it worth it, or should I just go for the couple that is independent, that is working for themselves, that is making, producing very high-quality content in the most beautiful, ethical way possible? You know, like it just raises a lot of important questions in people's minds, and I think that's always the start of a big movement, or a big change, or a shift I should say. You know, and also the fact that we do a lot of other stuff besides adult content. I don't think we've mentioned this yet, but we do, for example, this podcast. I'm sure it's going to really open up a lot of minds about, you know, people like us and what we do and whatnot. We do podcasts. We do collaborations with other influencers and public figures. We hopped on conferences. We were even in the Harvard [University] conference last year, in an academic sphere, talking about what we do and whatnot, which is huge. It's absolutely huge. We use our socials to educate and talk about topics that we're really passionate about, such as, of course, sex, sex education, LGBTQ+ topics, and romantic relationships, and stuff like that. So our content is not just limited to adult content. This is truly what we're passionate about, but we also host other content that is really doing, is playing a big role in paving the way forward, I should say. It's also, you know, highlighting and raising awareness just more broadly about how we can all be accountable for what we consume. Because in our society, I think, you know, just in my personal opinion, COVID, this pandemic has made us seriously rethink. I remember when we were talking about this before we recorded this, but it has made us seriously rethink our relationship with, I guess I'm just going to go here, capitalism, I suppose, because, you know, capitalism is geared towards excess. And sometimes in the pursuit of excess, we forget about, you know, how we can hold ourselves accountable, in consuming what we consume. Absolutely. It's also our fans that are helping do that because, like, as we were saying earlier, the fact that like, the majority of our fan base is women, subscribe to us. That, they talk to their friends, or you know, co-workers, or this and that about how they're subscribed to our content and they're proud of it. So it has, like a ripple effect. And so it's like our fans are also paving the way, and the community. Making more responsible and ethical decisions. Yeah, they're kind of they're kind of encouraging the conversation, you know, through like talking to people about it. Like, one person at a time, like one woman at a time. I think it's little acts like this that are really going to make a big difference in the long-term. It would help if more big creators can share a little bit more about their values, their beliefs, their real-life interests, or even like a deeper sense of purpose in their lives. Like, I think the world needs to see that people like us in the industry are also smart, and funny, and intellectual, and educated, and respectable, and just fucking awesome. Like, we're not dirty people just trying to turn you on and take your money. Like, we're really, you know, we're not filthy, we're not uneducated, we're classy, and we do exactly what everybody does behind closed doors, except we enjoy sharing it, and we're comfortable sharing it, and we're educating through sharing it. So I hope that more people like us are going to open up a little bit more about who they are as human beings so that it can kind of add a little bit more humanity to people like us ... Especially women like us in the industry. We're shrunk down to nothing. Usually, as soon as you say I'm a sex worker, you get 'that' look or you're just like, people just ... they just paint a picture of you that is so not you, based on everything they've learnt in their lives about sex, work and porn and all that, when it's so not like that, you know. That's beautiful, ladies. You're beautiful. Both of you are just so beautiful. I'm just like, you know, if only the world could just be, have more humanity, right? Yes, that's what it needs right now. That's what it really is lacking right now. What are your plans moving forward? Like, what other things have you got on the horizon? Well, we actually just started working with, I'm not sure if you've heard of the website, Wet For Her? No, that's a new one. Yeah well, it's mainly for sex toys, but it's a great website and it's actually run by, an LGBTQ team. And their toys, and what they have on the website is great. Like, they have a section just for lesbian sex toys, which you don't see that often, even called that like on other websites, you know. But this, like it's specifically 'lesbian sex toys', so there's a lot of great stuff on there. So we're working with them and we can't wait to try out all the toys they sent us. So we're going to we're going to get into that, but we have a code JFG, if anyone wants to check out the website and see what they're missing, or what new things are coming out. They get a little discount if they're using code JFG on their website. So that's one thing that we're we're doing right now. Yeah, I mean, for me, I'm like a big, I'm a pretty big thinker. Not big thinker, but ... Yes you are. Yeah. OK, who am I kidding? Yes. But basically, I would love to have JFG turn into like a professional production one day. That would be something that I would be super down for. I would love to have, like an LGBTQ, like a very small LGBTQ team with us, kind of, helping us elevate our content even more because we're kind of limited. It's literally just me and Alessia. We're running everything together from, like, marketing ourselves, to shooting ourselves, to editing ourselves, to everything. Everything is all just me and her. And it would be really nice to have, like a team, kind of, elevate our content and have like a production team. Like, maybe a camera woman, or like an assistant editor or something like that. You know, like, obviously it would still be directed by us because the most important thing for us is for our content to remain authentic and real. But it would be really nice to get a professional team involved and really like to really help elevate our content even more, and who knows? Maybe down the line, like, we'll ... Shoot other people. Yeah, we'll stop being in front of the camera and we'll be more in the back, and behind the camera, and shooting other people, and all types of other people will be really great. And we would direct, we would love to direct that. We would love to put the spotlight on other people, and allow other people a chance to shine as well. So that's kind of, like, how my vision of the future, or what I guess ... Or a documentary. Yeah, just be featured in a documentary would be really awesome. Like, or even create our own documentary about like, our journey or, yeah, something along those lines. I think there's a lot of stuff on the horizon, and really exciting stuff on the horizon that we would definitely be into. But I think when the time comes, we'll get a little nudge from the universe and we'll know when it's going to be time to move on to the next big thing. It's really exciting. Sasha and Alessia, two very beautiful ladies that I've been very honoured to, well yeah, just very honoured to have this friendship with you. And let's, it's not even friendship, like just affinity with you guys ... Yeah, likewise, babe. We freaking love you. Thank you so much for having us back. We love working with you. It's a breath of fresh air every time. It is. Thank you very much for joining today.