Vegan Soul Food with Detroit Vegan Soul’s Kirsten Ussery

Episode Summary:
This episode is all about soul food, but not the soul food you may be used to, today we are talking about vegan soul food with my guest Kirsten Ussery. Kristen talks with me about her journey of going vegan and later opening a vegan restaurant. I also spend a little time talking about the history of traditional soul food. Veganism has many health benefits and I am thinking about incorporating a few vegan days into my diet.

About the Interviewee:
Kirsten Ussery partnered with Erika Boyd to co-create the Detroit Vegan Soul restaurant brand in 2012. The pair own and operate a restaurant in Detroit's historic North Rosedale neighborhood and have provided employment opportunities for many people who otherwise would not have the opportunity to work and advance in the food industry. Ussery has been a speaker on various panels about entrepreneurship including the Small Giants Conference, Net Impact Food Panel, and JPMorgan Chase’s CityLab Detroit Global Summit. She is a graduate of the Goldman Sachs 10K Small Business Program. With over 20 years combined experience in both communication/public relations and the food industry, Ussery is a veteran in research, management, operations, communications, and marketing.

Instagram:
@detvegansoul
@kirstenussery 

Facebook:
DetroitVeganSoul
Kirsten Ussery

References from the Episode:

1. Soul food: Scraps became cuisine celebrating African-American spirit - https://www.post-gazette.com/life/food/2006/02/23/Soul-food-Scraps-became-cuisine-celebrating-African-American-spirit/stories/200602230275#:~:text=Slaves%20were%20forced%20to%20eat,bones%2C%20hog%20jowls%20and%20gizzards.
2. 7 COMMON HEALTH CONCERNS AFRICAN AMERICANS SHOULD MONITOR - https://www.centrastate.com/blog/7-common-health-concerns-african-americans-should-monitor/
3. Veganism - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Veganism
4. The Humble History of Soul Food - https://www.blackfoodie.co/the-humble-history-of-soul-food/#:~:text=Soul%20food%20takes%20its%20origins,in%20quality%20and%20nutritional%20value.

Transcript

Richard Dodds  0:00  
Coming up later in the episode.

Kirsten Ussery  0:03  
After a few years, you know, the nation started to catch up. Celebrity started to be more vocal about being vegan. You know, a lot of them have been vegan for years. You know, like when MC Hammer came to our restaurant he wasn't labeling himself is vegan, but he was uh huh. You know, celebrity started being more vocal about it, you know, that gets people's attention to and I think people started to say oh, okay, being you know, vegan is cool.

Richard Dodds  0:35  
This is still talking. a shoebox give a perspective to issues that minorities face every day. I'm your host, Richard. This episode is all about food. So food. So food started in American south during slavery, slaves were given the leftover parts of the animals that their masters didn't want, from pig intestines to the part of oxen like people took that and made chicken wings and oxtails. So food was born from the spirit that black people carry, of taking what they have, and turn it into something incredible. The food that was created during slavery is still enjoyed today by blacks and non blacks alike. So food is a testament to our ability to overcome and strive in the face of adversity, but it hasn't been without its drawbacks. Many African Americans today are predisposed to diseases like diabetes, high blood pressure, heart disease and strokes. At least a portion of that can be related back to our diets. Unfortunately, a lot of the foods that we enjoy are high in sodium and sugar, which in moderation is fine, but in excess can lead to health problem. I'm not a doctor. But as I've gotten older, I've seen the effects firsthand. My Wake Up Call was going to the doctor and I'm telling me that if I didn't change my diet, our risk hypertension and diabetes. Today I'll be talking with my guests about a different kind of soul food. Later, I'll be joined by the co owner and the co founder of Detroit vegan so a Soul Food Cafe that is 100% vegan but still manages to taste like a meal may with meat and dairy. Some of you may be wondering what a vegan is. A vegan is someone who does not consume any animal products including meat, eggs, honey and dairy. Some people choose to be vegan for health reasons, while others do for ethical reasons. Veganism is becoming more popular each year, and there are now many vegan friendly options available today. I haven't managed to go completely vegetarian, but I think I love my mac and cheese too much to ever go completely vegan. But I'm thinking about working a couple of vegan days and some of my diet. That was an exercise to make sure that health is something I prayerfully don't ever have to worry about. If you're like what we're doing here, I'm still talking black the best way to show your support by liking, rating and sharing our content or emerged from our store. I still talk on black.com for slash shop or donating using the link in the show description. Every little bit helps. And we thank you for your continuing support.

Kirsten Ussery  2:59  
My name is Kiersten ESRI, and I am co owner of Detroit vegan soul restaurant, Detroit's premier vegan soul food restaurant.

Richard Dodds  3:08  
So can you just tell us a little bit about your background.

Kirsten Ussery  3:11  
I am born and raised in North Carolina. So I have deep southern roots. I moved to Detroit in 1999. Basically, my career has been in communications, public relations marketing. But at some point, my business partner and I were inspired to change our health, her father actually passed away of prostate cancer. And we were just starting to kind of dabble into things like juicing. But when he passed away, and there wasn't anything that we could point to, in his lifestyle, besides the food that he put into his body that would have caused that it made us really take a deeper dive into it. And so we became vegan ourselves to break the cycle of disease in our families. And then we were just inspired we always say that we were we feel we were kind of chosen for this work because neither one of us as young people aspire to own restaurants. But it was kind of like a calling at that point. And there wasn't. This was back in 2012. There weren't any other at that time. 100% plant based restaurants or options in Detroit, Detroit was on all the worse lists for early mortality. You know, all of the it was at the bottom of the list for diet related diseases. And you know, I should say at the top of the list it was it was not good. And so, we decided to take our personal mission to another level we started making meals and we created a website. People could order meals for lunch or dinner at the time, I was still working a full time job. My business partner, Erica, she was a barber and loc Titian and she had a long list of clients. But we started this business and she would make meals, pick me up on my lunch break, and we deliver to people for lunch. And then after work, we meet people in random places and get them their meals. And we eventually opened our first restaurant had a lot of challenges, learned a lot along the way, and eventually opened a second location that brings us to where we are today.

Richard Dodds  5:40  
I can remember the first time that I wanted someone in your restaurants, and I was waiting for my food. And I looked up and there was a placard. And it was talking about how the food that black people have eaten over the years has contributed to bad health. And I was like really inspired. I was like, wow, this is a really inspiring mission to have to want to help the community eat better and therefore live better and live longer, especially for some of the stuff that we are predisposed to, because of hereditary reasons, what specifically may vegan makes sense to you? Well,

Kirsten Ussery  6:17  
because what we put in our bodies is so important in terms of preventing disease and creating disease. And, and a lot of times, I don't think we make the connection between what we eat and the illnesses that we experience. I think as a community, African American community, we have grown so used to certain illnesses, that it just becomes, you know, part of who we are. So everybody has people in their family that have diabetes, usually, most of your family members at a certain age are going to develop diabetes. In my own family, my mom has 11 Brothers and sisters, I have a ton of cousins, and out of this out of the clan. My mom is vegan now, she and I are the only ones that don't have diabetes, high blood pressure, you know, any of those things, we have good health, and I'm particularly proud of my mom, you know who's about to turn 65. And she's not on any medication or any of that. And even some of my family members in my own age group are already on medications. And before, before I became vegan, I had gotten a checkup. And they said that if I didn't change my diet, I would be borderline for diabetes at that point. And so just in doing research and things like that, we were just kind of, we gravitated toward this idea of putting vegetables that are so nutrient rich, and all of that into your body. And the idea that animal products, you know, it's it's really like this is, you know, I don't want to be too graphic, but you know, these are dead animals witness, you know, there's not really what, how much nutritional value are you getting out of, you know, death, that's you're putting in your body, and then the proof was in the practice. So after eliminating animal products, we felt amazing, and all of the health issues that we started experiencing went away. And so whenever something amazing, like that happens, and you're feeling so wonderful, you know, you want to go around, tell everybody the good news. So that's kind of where we were in. And so I think because of the transformation that going plant based made in my life, I guess I had the, you know, a personal testimony to it. And so I wanted other people to experience it. And we've said all along, it's not about trying to convert people or, you know, force people to become plant based, but at least be more open to incorporating some of these things into your lifestyle and or, you know, more plant based foods into your diet, you know, we have to, as a people reconnect with vegetables. So that's, you know, what we want it to do. And we know that just over the time that we've been open, we have been able to touch the larger mission, which is to break the cycle of disease in the community, because just so many people that have come into the restaurant over the years and said that having our food, let them see what was possible. And they made a lifestyle change and it changed their lives. And it it completely changed the trajectory of their lives. So now some people had illnesses or you know, chronic issues, and you know, they were able to address some of that just by you know, changing their diet. So we didn't realize the we knew we had this bigger mission, we didn't know how much impact we would be really be able to make because we didn't know how people would embrace it. But, you know, we are just extremely happy about, you know, what we've been able to do toward that mission to break the cycle of disease in the community.

Richard Dodds  10:20  
I remember going to the doctor, as I was getting older, I remember going to the doctor and they were telling me that if you don't change your diet, if you don't start exercising more, you, you're being in danger of getting all of these diseases. And that was something that was really a wake up call for me. And the thing was, I was already vegetarian, mostly mostly vegetarian, I'll say, I still had a couple of different meats that I ate. But at that time, I gave up those last meats, I'm completely vegetarian. And I started exercising more, and I can say that I felt a lot better just from giving up like the little meat that I did eat. It's funny how as you get older, you get that that wake up call, you go to the doctor and, and it's like, oh, you need to do better. And it becomes like a real thing. And if you pay attention to it, sometimes you can't really change the trajectory that you're already on. And I remember one month, I did like a month fast. And I was basically I was vegan for a month. And I will say like the first two weeks of that, I felt terrible, like I was dragging. And then at the third week, I felt like normal. And then a fourth week, I had so much energy, I just did not have the discipline to give up the cheese, though. That was the thing that pulled me back in. So with that said, what people like that, what would you suggest for people who don't want to go fully vegan, but they want to eat a healthier diet?

Kirsten Ussery  11:44  
Oh, I would just say it's not about eliminating per se, but it's it's about adding more good things. Because the more good things you add, you know, the there's not room left for the bad stuff. So if you think about, you know, what you put on your plate, a lot of people, you know, half the plate is some kind of meat, and then you know, the other half is mostly a starch. And there might be a little bit of vegetable on there. Well, you know, try to just gradually increase those servings of vegetables, you know, and decrease other things, even if you still have meat on there. But the majority of that plate is vegetables, you be a man, I mean, that sounds so simple, it sounds like oh, you know, that's not gonna do anything. But people would be amazed if they did that over a period of time that you know, the changes that that would make in their health. And they'll see it when they do, you know, checkups with their doctor, you can see those numbers balancing out and you'll be able to see and how you feel. But like you said, you know, you it, you do have to give it time, you know, you have to your body has to detox, you know, from all of the the crap that we put into it, you know, but the body is really resilient, you can reverse so much damage in a relatively short amount of time. Because, you know, we build up that damage over years. But just over the course of weeks do of putting the right things into your body, you can reverse some of that you can start to feel differently.

Richard Dodds  13:28  
That's I think that's that's really sound advice. So I've been at a restaurant I like I kind of alluded to before, and the thing about your food is so savory it tastes you know, you would never really know that it was just plant based from eating it. The flavor is very good. And I and the thing that I think I loved the most was the name like Detroit vegan soul, it just kind of felt like a playoff a soul food for me. How did you to come up with that thing?

Kirsten Ussery  13:56  
Well, you know, it's just that, you know, I have I'm born and raised in the south, and my business partner, Erica, was born and raised in Detroit, but her mother, I mean, I'm sorry, her grandmother was from Georgia. So she grew up, you know, with her grandmother's cooking, and we all as African Americans have had the experience of soul food. And that's our comfort food. That's our origin food. You know, a lot of those recipes have been passed down from generations to generations. And we wanted people not to feel like they're, they have to miss out on that. You know, and also you know, there's that emotional connection to food. You know, every year your family gets together for the holidays. You know, my family used to get together for not only holidays but birthdays and you know, different things and you know, there's always food there's always celebration, and the food is a big Part of it. And I think that's, that's what makes it hard for a lot of people to think about. Changing, change is hard. And so, we definitely want it to do something that, you know, embraced what we grew up on, which was soul food, but kind of married it to this new concept of, well, not new, but new to us, you know, concept of, of 100% You know, plant based food, no animal products, and, you know, how can you how can you achieve that, and I have to give credit to my partner, Erica, for creating those recipes, and, you know, figuring out a way to keep the flavors, you know, without the animal products, you know, if you cook a piece of chicken, you know, there's not really much you do to it, you know, to get that flavor that everybody loves, but imagine trying to get that put that flavor and to black of tofu. That's just basically soy bean curd that has no flavor and turning it into the you know, fried chicken, where people don't really don't miss it. You know, so that's what we that's what we set out to do. You know, we want people to still be able to emotionally connect to the food, enjoy the food, just without all of the the negative impacts of the food.

Richard Dodds  16:31  
Yeah, I can remember going to get I don't remember what it was, but it was some bites. It was either supposed to be like fish bites or chicken bites. You know, style. Chicken. That's Southern Fried tofu bites. Yeah. So I had got those and I bought a home to my mom, like, then my parents know that I'm a vegetarian. They're not my mom's family is from the south. She's born and raised in Detroit, but her family's from the south. So I let don't taste my food. My mom and my dad, I let them taste my food. And they swore that it was like, fish or something. And I was like, No, this is plant based is totally, it's totally no meat. And I never like I could squares meat in there. And I was like no, no meat, so I can really attest to the flavor of the food. It's delicious. Like I wouldn't even know what meat it was supposed to taste like, because I haven't had meeting so long. But it was it was delicious. And sharing it with them. They didn't believe it. So I kind of made them fans of that. And the broccoli. The broccoli used to have the broccoli. I don't think you have it anymore. But the broccoli I used to go get the broccoli all the time, because I just love broccoli. But so with that said, Is it was it hard to get people to start to try vegan dishes. Did you have to touch people's arms? Because like you said, in Detroit, that was an unknown thing.

Kirsten Ussery  17:46  
Yeah, I you know, in the beginning, a lot of people came just because they were curious. Some people walked in, and they did not know what the word vegan means. They just, you know, saw Detroit, they saw soul, they smell the food. And so we had people coming in, you know, asking for ribs and and, and they really didn't know that they were in a plant based restaurant, you know, we had people telling us well, you know, why don't you you know, just put a little fish on the on the menu, I don't think you're gonna survive, if you don't at least put a little bit of fish on the menu. But we were like, that completely defeats the purpose of what we're doing. We're trying to show people that you don't need any kind of meat and contrary to what people believe fishes still flesh. So we're not going to do that. You know, so there were skeptics, for sure. But once people, you know, started trying it and the word got around, it just caught on. And it became okay. And people became less afraid. And again, it's really interesting. A lot of people and other cultures and things like that. They're they're used to, you know, trying different things. And you know, they're open to different flavors and stuff like that. But, you know, African American community is very centered in in what we what we like. You try to mess with that, you know, it can sometimes be a problem. And like I said, Change is hard for people, but it usually just takes people having a good experience with it. And tasting those flavors that they're familiar with. And literally, you know, we could see like the light bulb going off for people. Like you're sitting there watching somebody eat the food, and their eyes light up. And sometimes people actually say, out of their mouth. Oh, I can do this. Yeah, so that was the light bulb going off. They're like, Okay, this isn't so bad. I can do this, but it's getting over that initial fear of change. Ah, I think

Richard Dodds  20:01  
I think we all kind of fair, a lot of us fear change and food especially, you don't know what to expect as something that's out of the ordinary, and you're going to try it. And you're like, Wow, this actually is different from what I was expecting. Because you think that when you think plant base, you think like something bland, but notice, has a lot of flavors. So I know, it caught me off guard the first time. And I don't even know what the thing was, that made me want to come in and try it for the first time. But like I said, I was really, once I was in, I was like, Wow, this place is cool. And like the, the non milk milkshake, the non dairy milkshakes. And it's all especially like, in the black community, like, I've met a lot of people who are lactose intolerant. So they can't even have milk products, especially like milkshakes, but they still enjoy that stuff. So it's great to have an alternative to be able to go to a vegan restaurant and be able to try something that tastes like what maybe what they remember, but they can't have anymore, right, and just give them that fix.

Kirsten Ussery  21:01  
Yeah, and, you know, we are on the spectrum of plant based food, we're definitely on the indulgent side, you know, we do fry our food, but we are trying to be the bridge for people. And once people get on the journey, they may take it further, you know, and they may decide they don't want any fried foods anymore, any of this or that. But the point is, you have to at least get people willing to even try it. And to do that, we can't just put, you know, a salad in front of somebody or a raw vegan dish in front of somebody and expect that that's so different from what they're used to, and expect that they're just going to come on board immediately. And then even those people who are further along on that spectrum, you know, sometimes you you just want some some comfort food, you know, you just you you want something that feels, you know, rich and hearty. So, that's what we provide, you know, for vegans and non vegans alike.

Richard Dodds  22:16  
I know, you kind of talked about a little bit when when you were introducing yourself, how you and your partner would make these vegan meals and you would deliver on what was the point? And what was the process of, hey, we need to actually get a building? And how hard was it to actually open up your first restaurant?

Kirsten Ussery  22:33  
Well, from the beginning, the goal was to always have a brick and mortar spot, a place where people could come to, because, again, you know, all of this came about from our personal experience and journeys. And so after we became vegan, you know, we couldn't really get, you know, good vegan food, unless went to Chicago, or somewhere like that, you know, our favorite restaurants were in Chicago. And it's like, you know, we can't travel to Chicago every time we want to eat out. So we need something close to home. So a lot of it was just really based on the needs that we knew we had. So we wanted to create a place where you know, other people that may be having that same experience knew that they could, you know, actually come to a place and get food, we started out the way that we did, you know, just to be sure to kind of, you know, test it out, you know, make sure that this was something that people would support. And in that process, you know, we saw that people did support it, you know, we surprised a lot of people with how popular we became so quickly. And then opening the location, I think the first time you do well for some people for for, you know, maybe it's different for everybody. But for us, the first time you do something, it's kind of like, there's a lot of challenges, but because it's the first time you know, you don't know what you don't know. And and you have a little bit of fearlessness, because you know, you're driven by passion. You You don't know what the challenges are going to be, you just know that you have a vision. And that's how very much how we were. And so, you know, we just jumped in, you know, we couldn't get traditional financing at that point. You know, I mean, it's difficult for an established, particularly, you know, black business to get traditional financing. For a startup. We didn't have experience in the food industry. Previous experience. There wasn't anything else like this in Detroit. So it was a huge risk. So we had to bootstrap it. And so that's what we did. So that was the first challenge. Just you know, putting our money together to make it happen and sweat equity. In that first location. We nailed all the You know, put in all the screws into the floor and, you know, did a lot of work ourselves and, you know, and then just figuring out the process, there's legal process, there's permits, and then when you have a building, you know, you have to become familiar with plumbing issues and electrical issues. You know, we were in an in an older, historical, you know, building. So sometimes there were issues because of that, and we had to deal with those issues as they came, it was a lot of trial and error, you know, along the way. And then by the time we open the second location, we pretty much kind of knew better what we were doing.

Richard Dodds  25:46  
That's funny, you say you had that you had you two had that fearlessness? A lot of times I feel like it's people were really good ideas who have so much fear that the fear cripples them. But you too, had that fearlessness? Like I don't know what I don't know. And in pursuing the goal that you had, I felt like that was the best teacher you could have had? Yeah, just doing?

Kirsten Ussery  26:08  
Yeah, I mean, if we had thought too much about it, we probably wouldn't have done it, if we had known some of the things that we know, now, I don't know if we would have done it. But still, I'm glad that we didn't know some of those things. But I think too, we were just really genuinely passionate about sharing this food and experience, and potentially, you know, transformative experience with people. And anytime you do something out of out of a genuine place, you know, you you you get a good result. And we still, we're still blessed, you know, a lot has happened, the pandemic, we recently had to shut down our first location. So we, we, we only have one location now, but we still continue to be blessed. And we're moving forward, we have a lot of exciting, you know, ideas and things that that we're trying to put into motion for the future. And it's, you know, 10 years that we've, you know, been doing this, and we're still hear, there have been other restaurants, you know, other vegan restaurants, a lot of them not in the city that had been around when we opened, not vegan restaurants, but you know, vegetarian restaurants, in Royal Oak, and you know, things like that there was nothing in the city. But you know, these places have been around 10 years when we owe back when we opened. So, you know, they've been around for a long time. They're close now. And we're still here.

Richard Dodds  27:52  
So speaking, speaking about the pandemic, what kind of effects of that had on business, I feel like, food got hit, and everybody had to adjust. So how did you to cope with the pandemic went ahead,

Kirsten Ussery  28:05  
it's been really, really rough, you know, our sales have been dramatically reduced, you know, our staff, you know, we lost a lot of our staff, you know, because, you know, people didn't, you know, they were concerned about working in the pandemic, and there's a labor crisis right now, in the city of Detroit, it's hard to it's particularly for the restaurant industry, you know, a lot of restaurants are having the same problems, just finding staff, you know, so that's been really rough rough on us. So we've had to, you know, come up with ideas and really look at, you know, where we see ourselves in the future, and how we can reshape our business to withstand these kinds of things. And so we're, we're right now, actually, in the middle of what we call our winter, a winter hiatus, where we decided to take three whole months off, so that we can come, you know, just solely focus on changes that we need to make, because a lot of times you get into the rhythm of something, and you're just, you know, doing it day in and day out. And you know, it's hard to stop and think and take a look at things. So we're really taking this time to think critically about, you know, how we can operate efficiently. You know, we're changing out some of our equipment, changing out some of the layout in our kitchen, we are thinking about things like if we get another, you know, strain of this thing of COVID and, you know, we're we we are back in lockdown, how would we deal with that? So we're, you know, we're changing some some things around, we're adding some new services. We're actually going to add a meal subscriptions back, you know, so, basically, in the beginning, that's what we were doing. We weren't calling it meal All subscriptions at the time, but that's basically what we were doing. People could order meals for the whole week, and, you know, deliver it to them. So we're bringing that back where, you know, people can order, you know, they can subscribe to different packages, and just, you know, pick up meals for the week. And we're doing that and, you know, some other ideas that we're, you know, kicking around, but, you know, really trying to reset ourselves, so that we can be around for the next few years, you know, we don't want to fold, like, so many places have had to whether we have staff or you know, or not, we're looking at, you know, what can we do to still survive

Richard Dodds  30:50  
when when you two started your your soul food, vegan, so food business, there wasn't anything like it in the city. Now, I feel like 10 years later, vegan has is a hot thing now. So every pretty you'll you'll be hard pressed to talk to someone that may not not know what vegan is. And even in the city of Detroit, a lot of other restaurants have starts to pop up that are vegan, and even popular chains are starting to add vegan options. How does that make you feel? Does that make you feel validated in that decision that you and your business partner may so long ago? Or what are your feelings behind that?

Kirsten Ussery  31:29  
Yeah, definitely we feel validated. You know, we're humble people. But we're, we recently have started to really embrace that title of Trailblazer because, you know, that really is what happened, you know, there wasn't anything like what we were doing, we garnered national attention. So, you know, PETA, you know, which is an organization, you know, some people love it, some people hate it, but they have a huge national presence, and they get people's attention. And, you know, we got on their radar, and even before all of the other, you know, places started to pop up, or, you know, just as some of the other places were starting to pop up, they started putting Detroit on their list is, you know, vegan destinations, we know that we had a lot to do with that, because we were the first one to take a chance. And to, you know, to not be afraid, you know, we didn't, we didn't open up in, you know, in downtown, we opened up in the middle of a neighborhood, like, you have to come into the neighborhood, to get to our place. And so to have all of the support that we had, and the traffic that we had showed that, you know, people would come. I mean, we have people coming from Ohio, from Canada, you know, from all over Michigan, and, you know, surrounding areas coming into that neighborhood, you know, to this vegan business, you know, and then we had celebrities coming like, you know, Stevie Wonder, you know, President Bill Clinton, MC Hammer and people and, you know, that gets people's attention too. And I think people started to say, oh, okay, VT being, you know, vegan is cool. You know, and then it just so happened that, you know, this, like, after a few years, you know, the nation started to catch up, celebrity started to be more vocal about being vegan, you know, a lot of them have been vegan for years. You know, like, when MC Hammer came to our restaurant, he wasn't labeling himself as vegan, but he was, um, you know, celebrity started being more vocal about it, you had studies that had that came out, that, you know, we're finally telling the truth about meat and what is what it was doing to, you know, our bodies and, you know, so all of these things started to happen. But before those things were happening, you know, we opened a soul food restaurant in Detroit, you know, of all places in the middle of a neighborhood and, and we're feeding people plant based food and they were enjoying it sometimes not even knowing that what they were eating somebody you know, brought them to the restaurant and they just thought they were eating some ribs

Richard Dodds  34:37  
Where do you see yourself in the next five years in regards to your business?

Kirsten Ussery  34:41  
Well, we see you know, where we see ourselves definitely still being viable, still being around first of all, you know, and and, and that's pretty significant because so many places are closing and all of that and choosing to close because, you know, it is hard, and we've all been impacted. But we've decided that that's not something that we want to do. So we're going to be here and we're going to definitely grow maybe not in traditional ways, but we are finding ways to, to be innovative with Marco food truck or, yeah, like, you know, yeah, we're talking about, you know, food trucks, you know, that's something that we definitely will have. So within the next five years, four or five years from now, you can expect to see food trucks, you can expect to see bottled sauces and seasonings, you know, packaged foods from Detroit vegan, so it's going to be more than just, you know, our, you know, restaurant we want, you know, Detroit vegan soul is a is a brand at this point. And we intend to see that brand expanded, you know, beyond Detroit,

Richard Dodds  36:06  
I think the biggest thing about YouTube's business is the mission. And one of the things when I talk about sales, when I talk about marketing, the thing that has always been apparent to me is that the people are the most that are the most successful has never been just about the money. It has to be about something that you really believe in. And as the people who really succeed, it seems like those people have succeeded because they were chasing something that they believed in whether than chasing the quick buck, and you to definitely have that. Like I said, for all these years ago, me visiting your restaurant for the first time, just remember what that blacker say, remember when the story behind it? You know, I don't remember verbatim, but I just remember a lot of that stuff you said today was on that. And I read that and I took that and I was like, That is a beautiful mission. And and it's not just about two people. It's about a community and and that that makes it so much bigger.

Kirsten Ussery  37:03  
Yeah, you you know, and you're right, it has to be about more than money, especially when you encounter obstacles, like what we've encountered in this pandemic. That's a big reason why places have close when your revenue gets cut in half, you know, and it just doesn't become worth it anymore. If that's all you're focused on, you know, but for us, something always brings us back to that mission. And so that's why we're still around and why we haven't given up and we can still see a future. And you know, we're still optimistic, even you know, with everything that's happened.

Richard Dodds  37:47  
I think that I think that's beautiful. Well, KEARSON I really appreciate you coming on the show and talking to us today. Thank you so much.

Kirsten Ussery  37:55  
You're welcome. It was a pleasure.

Richard Dodds  37:58  
So again, thank you everyone for listening. Still talking Black has a crown culture media LLC production is produced by me Richard DODDS. Our theme music was created by the DJ blue. Please make sure to rate and subscribe to the show on your favorite podcasting app. You can follow the show on Instagram and still talking black you can follow my personal account at tasm an sto DDS DBS is ill you can find out more about still talking and black are still talking black.com has links to our shop, all of the episodes and all of the transcriptions of the episode. So, again, thank you for listening, and until next time, keep

Unknown Speaker  38:34  
talking

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