384: Bandon Dunes Secrets, PGA Tour Changes with Tim from Looper Talk

Welcome to Episode 384 of the Chasing Daylight Podcast! We are officially celebrating our 1,000-subscriber milestone on YouTube, and we are kicking things off with an announcement of our 1K giveaway, which will include a brand-new Callaway golf bag. 

We are joined this week by Tim from Looper Talk, an 11-year caddie at Bandon Dunes and a PGA Professional. Tim brings the heat with incredible insights from the loops, a deep dive into golf's hottest current events, and some legendary stories from the bag. 

In this episode, we cover:

• Celebrating our 1,000 subscriber milestone and dropping details on our Callaway bag giveaway. 
• The hilarious moment Dan pure-striped a ladies' Reva 3-wood. 
• Tim's journey as a caddie at Bandon Dunes and why Bandon Trails is an absolute masterpiece. 
• A breakdown of the newly announced 2028 PGA Tour format, featuring the Championship and Challenger Series. 
• A candid debate on why the industry should focus on "finding the game" rather than forcing "growing the game". 
• U.S. Open course conditions, the mental grind, and Wyndham Clark's massive victory. 
• An unbelievable, behind-the-scenes caddie story involving Hale Irwin, Jack Nicklaus, and some very clean tee boxes at Cherry Hills. 
• The equipment rollback debate: why shrinking driver heads might be a better solution than rolling back the golf ball. 

Looper Talk Links:
https://www.youtube.com/@LooperTalk1927
https://www.instagram.com/loopertalk1927/

Make sure you are following the show on Apple Podcasts
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Special thanks to our show sponsor:
Garsen Grips - https://garsengolf.com

And also our show supporters:
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Las Vegas Golf Superstore - https://www.worldwidegolfshops.com/
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Follow the Chasing Daylight Crew:
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Dan Hodges: https://www.instagram.com/bogey_free_62/

Transcript

Intro & Celebrating 1,000 Subscribers

Matt 0:20

What is up, everybody? We have uh a the three a three-way thing going on here. Uh let's do it this way so that everybody can get on the side. Welcome to the uh chasing daylight podcast. Uh this is episode 384. Thank you all so much for tuning in. We hit our milestone. We hit our milestone. We have 1,000 subscribers now. So thank you everybody for that.

Joe 0:46

First of many milestones.

Matt 0:49

First of many milestones, many, many uh milestones.

Joe 0:52

Milestones.

Matt 0:54

Milestones. We hit it the other day, so I'm very happy about that.

Joe 0:58

Um Stony Boys.

Matt 1:02

Uh so we we have I

Callaway Bag Giveaway Details

Matt 1:05

this kind of happened quickly. We kind of jumped really quickly on the uh on the subscribers. I was trying to gather up some goods to do a nice giveaway, um, but it's here already. So uh I have a brand new Callaway uh fairway C golf bag that's got the American flag on it in a little spot. Um I have that out in the garage. I'll I'll uh I'll share some photos of that. We have uh Garzing Grip, we'll include in that throw in a CDP t-shirt, some stickers, and uh maybe I don't know, we'll see if somebody else wants to donate to the no no no no no gotta figure out how the hell we're gonna do it. They ain't ready. I think what I'm gonna ask everybody to do is is if you need a golf bag, because you know, I I love giving away stuff to whoever, right? We we give shit away every week. I love doing it, but I also want to give away something to somebody that needs it, you know. Not everybody needs a putter grip every week, so you know that's what Garson does though. Um, but there are a lot of people in need of a new golf bag. I go to the golf course a lot, I see it, I see people on the range. Yeah, their golf bags are tattered. I mean, bad.

Joe 2:19

Yeah, they're out there for sure.

Matt 2:20

So if you're somebody that's in need of a golf bag, just submit a 500-word essay to the chase. No, I'm just kidding.

Joe 2:26

Um notarized, notarized.

Matt 2:29

I I would I'd like to find you know people who want it. And I mean, if you want to resell it and you want to win, fine, I don't care. But I ideally I would love to be able to give this to somebody that you know loves the game of golf, got an old shitty bag, don't have 200 bucks to drop on a new golf bag, and you know, here this arrives if you do a step.

Joe 2:52

Uh share your share your bag on Instagram and tag to tag us.

Matt 2:58

Oh, I like that.

Joe 2:59

Yeah, I like that. Yeah, and then we can we can break it down. We could do match play, which is something we're gonna talk about later. Match play like the top six, and then let's oh that and have everybody vote.

Matt 3:11

That would be fun. Okay, I like that, Joe.

Joe 3:14

Hey, thank you.

Matt 3:15

The mind is working tonight.

Joe 3:16

Appreciate you guys.

Dan 3:17

See you later.

Matt 3:18

He's got the geek called the logo going.

Dan 3:20

That's a wrap on Joe.

Matt 3:21

That's a wrap. Uh beautiful golf course. Taking pictures, yeah. We're gonna we're gonna look for AI on these two. So we'll run them through an AI authenticator. Uh, Mike from Beautiful Golf Courses was scheduled to join us this evening, filling in for Jeremy. Jeremy's on the road, he's up at Mammoth right now on a little family vacay. And uh, so I asked Mike if he wanted to fill in, and he's like, Oh, I gotta work early in the morning, but fuck it, let's do it. I was like, All right, yeah, and then he texted me about an hour ago it's uh, you know, I'm a doctor and they need me. I gotta sick and I gotta cover set. I'm like, whatever, dude, whatever.

Joe 4:02

No, I gotta stitch some veins together, you know. Yeah, I got which is way more important.

Matt 4:08

And I said, No, that is that is a little bit more important than chat and golf with us. So we'll have him on uh in the next week or so. Uh but we we may have a surprise guest joining us here shortly, which could be hidden for some really good conversations. I think so. So stay tuned for that. Uh giveaway this evening. Got a which which grip did you want to do tonight, Joe?

Joe 4:33

What grip? I don't know. It's gonna be a Gars and grip. Garson grip for sure. You want to do we can do we can do a max tour, we can do this Tony Fina ultimate, or we can do a hit and greens head cover. We're running low on Garson grips, so it'll be buyer's choice, or winner's choice. You get to pick one of these grips or a hit and greens this guy right here won't win, or a hit and greens head cover. All right, all right, you'll win, Matt.

Dan 5:02

You'll win, Matt. You just won't get it.

Matt 5:04

Yeah, and um I'll I'll throw in like I'll throw in one of the t-shirts too. We got a black or a gray Vegas CDP logo. I only have them in XL, so sorry.

Dan 5:20

Hey, uh, I need to I need one of those before we give them all away, by the way, just so we know. Not a problem.

Matt 5:26

Not a problem. Hey, Joe, you were talking shit on that golf bag that I got. Dan saw it. Dan, tell him. It's dope. It's nice, Joe. What are you talking about? The one I was posting back.

Joe 5:38

Callaway bag, the green one. I said it says Callaway on it. I'm not gonna use that. That's all I said. I said it's a great looking golf bag.

Dan 5:44

I'm not gonna Joe's not a Joe's not a golf club brand golf bag.

Joe 5:48

I'm not a yeah, I'm not a OEM golf club, but it's dope, though. It looks great, it looks great.

Dan 5:54

It's it does it reminds me a lot of your uh your green one, your vessel, that same material.

Joe 6:00

Yeah, I mean, is it is it like silicone on there? Can I take a heat gun to it and peel it off? Or is it you probably could, yeah.

Dan 6:07

You probably could probably do it.

Joe 6:10

Yeah, but is it gonna be like is the is it gonna be discolored under there? Is it gonna be like clean, like you know, yeah, yeah. It's gonna be real faint Callaway.

Matt 6:18

Yeah, it's gonna it's no matter what you do, it's gonna show up Callaway somewhere.

Joe 6:22

Yeah, see, yeah. I'm just not a big golf club brand golf bag guy. No, no, like title is I love the Lynx Master. I almost bought that preserve Lynx Master when we were up there last and abandoned.

Matt 6:36

And like I just can't, I just the so high Lynx Master bag is so nice.

Joe 6:42

Like I would love a ping hoofer too. I those bags are awesome, but I just can't do it. I can't, I just can't because it's a ping. Yeah, because it says ping on it, and I don't own anything ping in my bag. Uh and I own a calloway driver. I don't, you know, I own Callaway stuff, but I just I feel like you know I just feel like you gotta be a company man for them, or you gotta be, or you gotta play for them or something. I just you know, those days are long gone for me, man. When my full bag was Callaway and I had Iron Callaway driver, fairway wood, Odyssey putter, I would have done it back then, but not anymore. You need to have a full bag, you need to be staff, you need to be snap staffing.

Matt 7:24

New Taylor made hockey bag, though. What I did I miss something on that? Is that the one that they did for the women's major?

Joe 7:30

No, it's the purple one for Minnesota.

Matt 7:32

Well, they have the the women's major going on up there right now.

Joe 7:35

So maybe that is it. But the the the blade putter blade cover look pretty fucking cool. It looked like a ice uh you know, a skates.

Dan 7:43

I will say the last few years when like Taylor made in Callaway and they roll out their major, those, those uh uh the staff bags for the majors, they've been I mean they've been killing it for sure. They've been killing it, they really have. They've been coming out with some great, great looking golf bags. But if you're not a you know, touring girl, who the hell is gonna carry around a staff bag? That that one right there.

SPEAKER_05 8:06

Woo-hoo!

Dan 8:07

Fancy, fancy boy.

Joe 8:09

That is a nice one. You work you work for Callaway. You're company man, still company man, company man. Well, you're not brand agnostic as well.

Matt 8:19

Has been uh well, I I I have a Goodwood putter, so that's that's where I draw the Olsen putter, you have a lot of putters. I got uh a handful of Odyssey too, so yeah, but I don't change my putter as much as Wyndham Clark does, which we can get into that later too, if you want to.

unknown 8:38

True.

Dan 8:38

Um second, not as much, probably more, but yeah, just ahead of just ahead of Hideki, just a little bit more.

Matt 8:45

30

Driver Struggles & Indoor Foresight Fitting

Matt 8:46

putters he's gone through in in like the last five years. Wow, that's a lot. Yeah, that's pretty wild. For somebody that's on tour at making it as a living, that's that's a lot. But I I've been struggling with my driver of late. Uh I've been hitting it really good. I just I have this tendency to overdraw it and uh turns into a little snappy hook. And so yesterday I went down. I'm like, man, I want to go hit some balls, but I'm like, god damn it, the balls at the range just suck. And it's windy and it's hot. Bing! Light went off. Hey, let's go check out Gretsch, let's go indoors. So I booked a time at Gretsch Golf Academy. Uh, shout out Gretsch Golf, fantastic facility here in the southwest side of the town over by Silverton. Uh, 77 degrees in there. Thermostats were set to 74. Post a little video on that. Um, I took four different heads in there with my shaft that I really like the shaft that I'm playing right now. And uh after I got done, I think I hit like 120 walls. Um, just trying to get it all dialed in. But the thing that I love about there is they use Foresight, they've got the overhead Foresight Falcon, and so I can connect my Foresight account to it, and you know, uh with the all the new features of the Foresight app, which yeah, they hit it out of the park with that. Um go ahead.

Joe 10:14

Sorry.

Matt 10:14

What were you gonna say?

Joe 10:16

I was gonna say, how much do you think it impacts players that are practicing on the range with shitty range balls and they're hitting it, you know, they they shoot something and then it's a fucking you know a limited flight ball, and the there's no uh the dimples are just shaved away, and you know, they're they're like, oh well, I'm dialing in this pitching wedge at you know 135, and then they go to and then they go play with you know uh Chrome soft, whatever, a real golf ball on the course in high pressure situations, and then they just fuck up.

Matt 10:47

Yeah, it's tough, and that's one of the struggles Julian and I have in our fitting events is you know, we're most of the time we're stuck with what they have out there, you know. A lot of times like we were at Legacy uh over the weekend and they brought out brand new balls for us, so that that was awesome, yeah. You know, and Revere has updated a lot of their balls, they're slowly getting the the shit out and having new ones come in. Um, so it wasn't as bad there on Friday. Uh, but a lot of the times, man, we go to some of these places and the balls are terrible. Love Boulder Creek, but my god, do they need to change their range balls? Yeah, those things are on the verge of paintballs.

Joe 11:29

I mean, it's it's a hefty cost for the golf course. I mean, I remember talking to Trey and he was doing his uh whatever PGA thing or whatever in school, and he was like, dude, the the price of golf balls just to change them for the range is astronomical.

Matt 11:45

It's a big nut, but they they're all back then, yeah. They're also you know charging 19 20 dollars a large bucket now.

Joe 11:53

Well, that's all yeah, that's all that's totally yeah, that's insane.

Matt 11:58

That it's it's it it's ridiculous. You know, that's what I was like, you know, it's it was uh I think 40 40 bucks, something like that to go to Gretsch.

Joe 12:06

If you're in the chat, do you guys pay how much do you pay for range balls if you go practice?

Matt 12:10

Yeah, that would be how much do you pay when you go to your to if you go to your course, or if you have a range card. Um it's astronomical. It's astronomical, but I was able to get get it dialed in. You know, I had been playing my elite driver um for the past couple weeks just because uh one uh I was just having some issues with zero this silver spoon-fed motherfucker, yeah.

Joe 12:40

Um I'm kidding, boy.

Matt 12:44

So uh yeah, I was I was playing the elite and I I played well, I hit the ball really good at Dragon Ridge. I mean not Dragon Ridge at um uh Boulder Creek, and then Julian Kat and I played on Saturday afternoon at Legacy. We played the front nine at Legacy, and uh I was sitting there pretty good, and I just I'm just I I cannot get the face under control, and it's driving me crazy. Uh so yeah, I the quantum is back in the bag for uh this weekend. Really happy with the numbers that I saw on the Quantum Boys, kind of got a few things fingered out, so yeah, nice, pretty, pretty freaking happy with my game right now. Yeah, it was so funny. So uh Rasta, I know you guys know Rasta here in town.

Joe 13:32

He's busting those raps.

Matt 13:34

Yeah, the rap videos. It uh awesome dude, and he's obsessed with the game. And he was a couple groups out in front of us, and and we uh caught up to him, and we played the last we played eight and nine with them, and he has one of the new lab blade putters, the new one that came out, yeah, yeah, yeah. Two, I guess it's called two point one or something, whatever it's called. Yeah, yeah. So um it was hilarious because I made on number eight, I made like a 50-footer for Birdie. Um, awesome putt. And uh then we get on to nine, and and I I was on in regulation and just missed a putt tapped in for par. And then he was off to the right gathering the stuff, and I said, Hey, let me let me roll that real quick. You know, I I've just seen that.

Joe 14:17

Big loud guy coming.

Matt 14:19

I dropped it and I was about 40 feet away and and hit the putt and dropped it, and he was like, I should have recorded that. I said, No, you wouldn't want to record that.

Joe 14:28

We need to hit up, we need to hit up Sam because I want one of those visions. I think that vision looks pretty good, and I'm not a mallet guy at all. You know, I've said it many times. The vision looks sick. I haven't seen it in person yet, but just the look of it, something about it works for you, works for me. I'm not gonna be a mallet boy, but I would definitely try and use that one. Just like when I had when I won that Scotty Cameron on that buyer's giveaway, that Phantom, and I used it. I took it that was a tournament. I took a I took a mallet to Desert Pines to play a mallet in a tournament, never even rolling a mallet before. Took it, put it pretty well with it. It probably would help my game a little my penny game a little bit. So I don't know if I'd call it a tournament. Well, hey, I mean, you know, I still brought a mallet, and when I showed up with it, you guys were not giving me any graces.

Matt 15:30

It was that head cover was so big, I have no idea how you put that in your bag.

Dan 15:34

It's very surprising because you've been saying a token about mallets. I am so now to actually hear you say that you're curious and you like the look of one and all this stuff.

Joe 15:43

Yeah, I mean, I'm not I don't hate mallets, I hate the putter cover.

Dan 15:47

Hanging next thing you know, Joe, you're gonna have a Callaway golf bag, bro.

Joe 15:51

Never nah that I'll never have an OEM golf bag. That's not gonna happen. No chance. No chance.

Dan 15:57

We'll revisit this episode in a year and see what happens.

Joe 16:00

That'll net no that'll unless it's free. Maybe if it's free and I really like it.

Matt 16:05

Okay, power build staff bag.

Joe 16:07

Do I use it? Uh I think you've been tempted. No, I'm not carrying him around a staff bag on the off board. Are you insane? Who do you think I am? Take it to Bandon, bro.

Matt 16:18

Take it abandoned, yeah.

Joe 16:24

Who's this fucking clown? Single strap staff bag. That's perfect. Go charge it then. Bring your metal spikes too. Have people help you? Okay, we can. I mean, I'm in such disarray on my golf game, also, that I probably need a mallet because I'm not I don't play very good golf anymore, and it's kind of frustrating, which we've gone over before. And hey, maybe that maybe that might be just a little cure, you know. What up, Nori? Maybe I have to deal with an overhanging puttern cover in my bag just to help me feel some sense of like manliness again. You know what I mean?

Matt 17:01

You put it in first, and then you put the irons on top of it so the irons cover it and you can't see it as well.

Joe 17:06

No, you just cover it with a towel, you just put your towel over it. There you go. That might work.

Matt 17:11

Oh, look at live from Mammoth, California, DGT in the chat. Reporting live from the mountains. Jeremy, you may have missed it. Uh, we have a couple people that have it clipped, and I will be clipping it. But Joe says he's gonna switch to a mallet. He loves the lab golf vision.

Joe 17:32

I did not say I'm switching. What are you talking about?

Matt 17:35

He says he wants to get a lot of things. That's what I heard.

Joe 17:37

That's what I heard.

Matt 17:38

I heard uh I need to talk to Sam and we need to get one because I want to play it.

Joe 17:42

As that's what I here's the thing, I'm definitely not paying for one of those. Yep, he said you know his choice. I'm not choice to get a vision. I'm not switching and paying for one. I hey, maybe I could be converted, you know, and also listening to Sam on the podcast where we had him on from lab. I mean, you know, he knows his shit. I know he knows what he's doing. Great dude. And you know, I started liking lab a bunch more after we had Sam on, but I'm I I'm not gonna I'm not gonna put chips down on the table to make the switch. Okay. I'm not putting chips on the table to make the switch. I love a blade, love the look, love the putter covers on a blade, but I you know, and I I don't mind mallets. I used to play a mallet way, way back when, but the overhanging of the cover on the back just does not sit well in my stomach. So but I do like the vision one looks pretty good.

Matt 18:48

There you go. Yeah, that's it. Boo lab yeah, yeah, too funny. But I even I it it's the it's the onset for me is what is what kills it. I mean, even that blade putter, it has so much onset that I it's god, it just it I was standing over it going, whoa, oh and then I rolled it, it was so funny, dropped it in there.

Joe 19:17

Every time I've every time I've rolled one at golf galaxy or PGA superstore, like it does feel super stable, and I'm in a very shaky situation in my golf game. So, you know, when you go down those rabbit holes like Matt does, and he's got 47 putters in the garage that he tries every week. Same with Windham Clark, you never know. I could be a major champion myself, you know.

Matt 19:43

Joe, you need to come out to a fitting because something happened Friday at Revere that blew us all out of out of the water. Just we were all in awe. Dan grabbed a 40 gram light ladies flexed Reva three wood, yes, striping it. Yes, I'm switching like like he was like interesting, and I order a whole set of red.

Joe 20:12

Yep, I'm going pure ladies, but but it was just pure down the middle, or were you dude?

Dan Stripes a Ladies Flex 3-Wood

Dan 20:18

It was there was one spinnier than shit, but it was just so easy to hit, bro. Oh, yeah, he was. I mean I was swinging probably about 68 miles an hour trying to cut these, but the couple of times, the couple of times I did go after it, it was there, but yeah, just sitting there just hitting smoothie boys all day and just hitting these little grabbed uh he grabbed uh eight hybrid, which has the same loft as a nine iron, and yeah, was just hitting these little punchy flighted wedge shots with an eight-hybrid, a ladies' eight hybrid.

Matt 20:54

It was and Julia and I are sitting there going. This is why we tell people don't listen to what everybody tells you you should be playing, you know. Yeah, no way in hell Dan should ever, everybody. He's going to, he's going to, but he didn't hold bag, and he's like, fuck it, light, light blue Rev-Rise staff bag for Dan.

Joe 21:22

Lady Calloway TC serial number, triple diamond.

Dan 21:27

Yep, and give me all the pastel colors, give me all it was shocking, it was absolutely shocking.

Matt 21:35

I couldn't believe how pure he was striping it. It was crazy. Never seen anything like that.

Joe 21:41

Stratton in the house. What up, Straddon?

Matt 21:43

Oh, Strat, what's up?

Joe 21:47

Yeah, but I mean that's it, yeah, it's the thing. But but also Dan knows how to just you know slow it down and and and create that, you know. He knows how to adapt to it, also.

Matt 21:58

I told him, I said I want to. See that level of patience with your real clubs. You know, you don't need to swing at 125 miles an hour. Dial it down just a little bit and get those smoothie boys like that.

Joe 22:11

Because I don't know what Matt's talking about. I still think Dan's 125 is still pretty smoothie boys, but that's my opinion. Matt's talking shit right now. So I'm just I'm just on the record. I still think it's a little smoothie boys.

Matt 22:26

It's not Dan is aggressive into the ball, very aggressive into the ball. But he does. And that's what he does. And it was funny watching him not do that. Liquid death at the ball death at the ball. Yeah. Shout out Liquid Death. Got the the Gilbert grape in the house tonight. Like if you like your grape drink, it's not it's a lot better than the strawberry. Is it uh soda or is it your uh soda?

Joe 22:54

Well, if you like the grape drink.

Dan 22:57

If you like the grape drink, it's it's not bad. A little scissor, you're good to go.

Joe 23:04

Have you guys been seeing speaking of viral shit? Grape drink is gets viral occasionally, but uh what a transition. The Kool-Aid pineapples. Have you seen that?

Dan 23:17

Kool-Aid Pineapple.

Joe 23:18

You haven't seen the Kool-Aid? Has anybody seen the Kool-Aid Pineapples Spears? Please let me know because I need to try it. I almost bought some the other day. Holy smokes. I holy moly, you guys don't know. I thought I thought you guys would be in touch and down and down with this. Okay. I'll have to figure out to find out.

Matt 23:35

We talked all about Landman a couple weeks ago. It was an amazing trip. We had so much fun. Played some bangers in Nebraska besides Landman. But yeah, so much fun.

Dan 23:47

Okay, what what's the thing with the Kool-Aid? Is it like in liquid form, or do you sprinkle it on as a powder on your pineapple? Like, what are we doing?

Joe 23:54

They'll had Kool-Aid pickles. No, so what they're doing is they've gone viral and there's guys on Facebook Marketplace selling it. But you get a a jar of the the pineapple like spears from Costco or uh Sam's Club. You pour the juice into like a cup, and then you put Kool-Aid in it, mix it. I mean, pineapple juice, I I haven't tried it yet, but some people add sugar, some people don't. And then you put it back into the pineapple spears for like a day, and then the Kool-Aid gets absorbed into the pineapple.

Dan 24:31

Oh, so you're just like marinating your pineapple and Kool-Aid.

The Kool-Aid Pineapple Trend

Joe 24:34

Yeah, it's it's like a Kool-Aid marination of pineapples, absolutely. I can't believe you guys haven't seen it. That's shit's everywhere. Yeah. Sorry. I don't know how we got here, but I knew my algorithm is a little different.

Matt 24:47

Yeah.

Dan 24:50

A lot of broken bones and flying bodies. Mine's nothing but golf naked brown.

Joe 24:54

You guys know I don't like the broken bones, so yeah, mine's definitely different.

Matt 24:58

Yeah, you don't get you don't get those.

Joe 24:59

Just just didn't know. Anything that makes me feel something in my bones, I don't like.

Matt 25:04

I see that there's a bunch of skate ones, and I said I'm like, I can't, Joe would be like, I see the skate bones.

Joe 25:11

All right, I think he might be coving. Hold on. Let me see. Just text me.

Dan 25:15

Yeah, I haven't got any broken bone videos from you lately, Matt.

Matt 25:18

I well, because I've been concentrating on other things.

unknown 25:24

I get it.

Matt 25:25

I've uh I I went down a rabbit hole. So my my little one is about to be a senior in in high school, and she is uh really big into marketing and business. She's uh was president of her DECA club as a junior. Uh she's super big into uh business marketing. She's sent out probably 20 emails to different marketing companies here in town, and she's gotten some feedback and she's had an interview today with somebody to help them do their social media stuff, and it's impressive. And she gets all over me for using AI to help with stuff, right? She's like, sucks, stop doing it, blah, blah, blah. And so I was on the website the other day doing something, and she goes, What is that? That is trash. What are you doing? You know, like what's going on? What are we doing? You know, that and I said, I go, what are you talking about? And she's like, That is terrible. And I was like, Well, help me if you know, if it's terrible, help me. So she did an audit. Yeah, she did an audit of the CDP website, and so for the last three days, I've been making changes based on her suggestions. So uh the CDP website has a new look. We're not doing a rebrand, don't worry, we're not rebranding. Um but the CDP website has a new look and it's a little bit cleaner, a little bit more user-friendly. And uh yeah, so check that out when you have some time. Some good stuff on the website. So it's in the hands of a 17-year-old now. So holy moly. No, no, I still have control. She's she's helping me. There he is. All right, okay. Everybody, welcome to the show. Tim Group Talk.

SPEAKER_00 27:16

How

Guest Intro: Tim from Looper Talk

SPEAKER_00 27:17

are we doing, boys? What is going on? Let's go. I know. I well here, I'll I'll move. So my studio is in the downstairs bathroom because I have three young kids that completely ruin everything, and this is the only room I have in the house. So forgive me if my background's not the best. But background.

Joe 27:37

You're good, bro. Uh, so it sounds like you're coming from your uh your back book or something. Can you get that mic turned on? It sounds it sounds echoey. Oh, it does. Yeah, it sounds like you're on your uh head. Sounds like your background, but guys, let me let me get I'll do a quick uh intro. Yeah, it's Tim. This is Tim Looper Talk. What about now? There you go. You're solid. This is Tim Looper Talk, Caddy at Bandon Dunes. As you guys know, if you listen to this podcast, one of our favorite places in the entire world. Dude is has opinions on so many topics, so many things, has a background in the game, and uh yeah, shout out Looper Talk. Uh thank you plug yourself real quick. You do your own intro or intro. Uh yeah, so here's your podcast.

SPEAKER_01 28:24

Um, yeah, I'm I'm the owner of Looper Talk. It's a golf media brand with a podcast attached to it. Uh, I'm a caddy at Bain and Dunes. I've been a caddy for 11 years out there. Uh I'm also a PGA professional. I teach uh lessons up at Coos Golf Club, and I've been playing golf professionally since 2016. I'm your very first caddy ever elected to a caddy yard as a PGA professional. So I connected the dots there, and it has been an interesting journey ever since. But yeah, I'm I'm glad to see the opportunities it has presented me. Obviously, here I am talking to you boys, so I'm just thankful for the opportunity.

Joe 29:05

Does he know Scotty D? You know Scott Duncan? I've never asked.

SPEAKER_01 29:09

Yes, I do. Yeah, yeah, he passed away, right?

Joe 29:12

See, that's what I did.

SPEAKER_01 29:13

I didn't hear that.

Learning to Love Old Mac & Bandon Caddie Talk

Matt 29:15

That's what I thought. I've been trying to get in touch with him. Uh I just got chills.

SPEAKER_01 29:18

Oh, no way. Yeah, he uh he was abandoned and he went down to Pebble Beach, correct? Yeah, yeah, yeah. So he passed away, I think six months ago, maybe somewhere in that region. Oh super nice dude, one of the nicest guys. Uh really good heart, really good heart, and uh kind of a light spirit, too. Man, he was yeah, he really nice.

Joe 29:41

He was a roadrunner, bro. He was he's crazy. He was a traveler, man. Yeah, damn, that's wild.

Matt 29:48

Yeah, that sucks. He he taught me how to love old Mac.

SPEAKER_01 29:52

No, that makes so I'm still trying to figure that one out.

Matt 29:58

I I did the solstice one year and uh he uh caddied for me. We played around, um, we played around two rounds before because we came up on a Sunday and we played two rounds on Sunday. He caddied for me, and I'm like, dude, I I I I did I dig you. So I asked him if he wanted to uh if he wanted to do the solstice and he's like, Yeah, fuck it, I don't care. Um and I said, Will they let you do all 72? He's like, Yeah, I'm one of the few guys the they don't question. I'll just I'll just do it. I said, Okay, cool. And so uh we played those two rounds in the after the third round of the solstice. Uh we finished on old Mac. And he said, he goes, All right, Matt, I've seen you play five rounds. I've been I've been on your bag for five rounds of golf. I I know your game, I see how you play. Because old Mac was like the bottom of the list for me. I I did not like it. I I it was it was tough.

Joe 30:50

It was gonna turn into a full band of discussion.

Matt 30:53

And he goes, he goes, I'm gonna I'm gonna make you love old Mac. He goes, I'm just gonna hand you clubs. I don't want you to question it, I don't want you to look at it. I'm just gonna hand you a club and I want you to play. I said, All right, and I shot 75 and had the most fun I've ever had on a golf course, and it was just because he knew what I needed to do where and pointed me in the right direction. It was God, damn it.

SPEAKER_01 31:18

God bless you, brother. That's that's old Mac to play is one thing, but to caddy it is definitely probably my favorite. I feel like we have the most value on that course. Absolutely. We have a tournament every year called the Looper Cup. It's our national caddy tournament. Uh down uh it's down, it's in winter time, so it's right around the first week of December. We invite four other caddy or three other caddy programs. It's usually Pine Valley, Pebble Beach, Cypress Point, and then Mayakama and Pebble Beach sort of go back and forth. And I always love playing them on that course because they have no idea what they're doing. We're not gonna tell them what the course is doing, we're just sort of hopefully they'll figure it out on their own. But it's it's one of those courses that you have to play spots yes, and you have to know where the big miss is. And I think you really have to get in touch with your putter out there and just kind of embrace the ground game because it that course is not really meant to be um an aerial type of golf course, it's very much more on the on the ground.

Matt 32:22

Yeah, I I didn't love old Mac. I love it now. It's it's it's my two, so he taught me to love it. He said he was gonna do it and he did it.

SPEAKER_01 32:32

Oh, yeah. I've I'm I'm still trying to figure it. It's on the bottom of my list, unfortunately, but I've really had many people explain to me the architecture behind it. I just caddied for a guy, he's the owner of Childress Hall up in North Texas, and he's got a Tom Doak and a Gil Hands course up there, and he was explaining to me the templates, the kind of the rich history behind the templates and all that, and that was very fascinating. He almost convinced me. Um, but it's still it, I've I've really it's just not my cup of tea, but I've really grown to appreciate it. I I won't say I definitely can say that with the full heart that it's it's something I've learned to appreciate. The that type of golf.

Joe 33:17

I mean, it's one of the best reveals out there, too, you know. Uh climbing where the grocery is, but so you do not own the old Mac DVD that explains the history of it, is what you're saying. I've I almost bought it, I've almost bought it. Didn't even know that they do, yeah. No, but old Mac was supposed to, you know, you're familiar with Leto at San Valley, right? Yes, sir. Old Mac was supposed to be the Leto, but Tom Doke said that there wasn't enough room. So what they did, they did an interpretation of the Leto and band it.

SPEAKER_01 33:53

Okay. I I that's fair enough, man. I again I've I've really I'm not a huge Doke fan. I've cattied for not personally, I've cattied for him a few times. He's actually was really nice to me. So, in a personal level, I really appreciate him. His designs just remind me of Pete Dye. And when I was playing college golf and we would go down to Florida and I played any sort of Pete Dye course, I would get my ass whooped. Excuse my language. But so that there's part of there's part of that there. I and I think that's the beauty of what Bandon offers is absolutely like in the golf world, there's so many personalities that come into the sport, and it's one of the few sports where you don't have to be a specific individual to play it. We have so many different backgrounds, different ideas, whatever, that really enjoy the sport. And so I think bandon really kind of tackles every personality and says, Hey, you will find one of these that you will enjoy, and and that's probably why it's obviously rated as high as it is. So, and and coming from working there, it's uh it's it's one of the best facilities I've ever been a part of. Uh, I've I've seen hung out with Mike Kaiser, I catty for his son Chris quite often here and there, and that family alone was enough reason for me to stay working there, and as I've gone forward, it's I I'm so blessed to be a part of that facility. I really am. It's um there's not much more I can say after that, but yeah, it's it's a very cool experience.

Joe 35:20

Uh it's my favorite place in the entire world that I've ever been.

SPEAKER_01 35:24

It's insane, man. And and it does, especially for me, I trails is in my top five all time. I I absolutely love that golf course. And I I just I I still to this day, I can't believe the amount of I've been there for 11 years, man. I've walked that course probably six, seven hundred times, and I still I just get in this awe standing on a 16T, and you obviously it's the uphill part five, but then you look left and you see the fourth fairway. And I man, I don't know what it is. That that place I could just I could play that course every day and and be content with that.

Matt 35:59

They've had deer come walking next to me as you're walking up that you know that hole. It's just there's just so many epic moments. Yes. It it changed me as a golfer, you know, playing it the first time. And uh I have yet to have that experience on any other course that I've played that just it makes you feel like you're you're part of the course. You like you know, you're you're just invited.

Joe 36:25

I think what it is is it tells a story. I think that's the best thing about it. It tells a story as you play that golf course. There's a story that is it's being told to you as you play your way through it.

Matt 36:40

Start in the dunes, get through the meadows, climb through the hills, come back to the meadows. Nothing like it. It's just such an amazing routing.

SPEAKER_01 36:48

Um, so I when I uh this was maybe a couple years ago. I was on, I was with Chris Kaiser, and we were walking that course, and I still found this one of the most profound statements. Is he his dad told him that he thinks the reason why Trails has this such a unique feel and it's so moving to a lot of people as an aura, right? Is because a lot of the trees they haven't been touched for hundreds of years, and so there's this deep-rooted history nature, like naturally, because a lot of this ground hasn't been touched for a very long period of time, and now we're talking about playing in that golf course, you're seeing a lot of trees that have. If you actually get back there, and anyone who's watching, this is a really cool part of the golf course. It's the second hole, it's a par three down the hill. When you get done with the hole, take a left instead of taking that right, go left down the hill, and you're gonna see the biggest Douglas fir. Yeah, right there. You go. I mean, you're gonna see this the biggest Douglas fir you've ever seen, dude. And I'm almost positive that tree has to be two, three hundred years old. It's insane. I have never seen it. And Douglas firs are these trees that they grow out here that they log, and so they grow really quick, and they don't have a big trunk, but they get real tall, so there's a lot of surface area for them to use the wood, and they can um they can basically use it up pretty quickly, um, or the tree grows big enough to where they have enough resources for it. But to see that kind of how big that tree is, they have a little bench that's built on one of the limbs, too. It's uh yeah, anyways, I'll I'll shut up.

Joe 38:29

But yeah, it's a great but there's tons of things like that there. That's what's amazing. There's so many things, like damn good putter, who is our fourth on this podcast, who's in Mammoth. You know, we we were what one of my favorite things to do is uh be at Bandon with a first timer. And Jeremy, I know how much he appreciates golf, loves golf, the damn good putter, right there. And we did a we did a full ATSM trip. Um and he cried up there uh up on 14T. You know, the bench, right? Oh yeah. I mean, I've cried at Bandon too because it's just I cried on 16 at OG, but you know, it's just it moves you, it's just sick. And and for you to be there that long and still feel so passionate about it, um 100%.

SPEAKER_01 39:19

Man, it's it is it's exactly. No, I if it was, it was it was it was definitely maybe some recreational stuff involved, but no, in terms of a actual spiritual moment, no, I've I've now I've had people that get very, very attached to the place. That happens quite frequently, and so I think we have these sort of conversations that we're having now, and it's it again, every golf personality, we're just our brain is just firing on all cylinders because we have Pacific Dunes, totally different feel, Bandon Dunes, which has grown on me a ton. That course is is awesome. Then you have Sheep Ranch, which I have grown to appreciate because of the idea behind it and the amount of land that they use. They only used 170 acres, right? And so to provide that kind of an experience is awesome. And so and to me, I think the sleeper of all this is Band and Preserve. Oh, yeah, that's the original routing, huh? Oh, yeah, awesome.

Joe 40:27

I know uh I know a greens keeper out at Sheep Ranch, and he sent me a shit ton of these.

SPEAKER_01 40:31

Oh, that's so cool, man. But yeah, preserves my experience out here. Uh, I got to caddy, I think, four or five times on the original, and that was really cool. And so to see the evolution of that was was neat. And I think I I also find it very fascinating about the practice center, how everything is free. They let the uh kind of the community to get involved with Bandon. So if you wanted to get into golf, you can drive onto Bandon Dunes, go straight to the driving range and hit balls. And I think that to me amazing, amazing. It provides a message there of I'm big on accessibility. If you've watched my show or if you're watching my podcast, that's something I'm I'm very big on. So yeah, I I feel like their message is is very reflective of what I'm trying to do, and so I I've I appreciate it a lot. Golf as it was meant to be, bro. Golf as it was meant to be.

Matt 41:29

As Joe said earlier, we could we could talk bandage.

Joe 41:32

That's what I mean. I'm gonna, yeah. If you're listening, do us a favor and make sure you're checking out Looper Talk on Instagram and also his podcast.

Matt 41:43

I was following you from my personal account, but I just followed you from the podcast.

SPEAKER_01 41:46

So okay, well, and I'll follow y'all back, man. We'll we'll yeah, absolutely. That's thank y'all for doing that.

Breaking Down the 2028 PGA Tour Format

Matt 41:52

Some some big news came out today, and I was I'm so grateful when the big golf brands and and companies choose Tuesday mornings to throw news out there. Yeah, it's just perfect for us. They're like, hey, you know what? CDP is gonna be on tonight, let's let's save this till tomorrow and throw it out there. Uh, so they brought in Tiger, had a big presser today, and the PGA announced this new format that they're going to in 2028. And so if if you live under a rock and you have not heard, I'll throw it up here on the screen. This is uh what's oh come on, show, show, show. Maybe not. There we go. Uh, so this is what's coming in 2028. They're splitting it up into two tours within one tour. You've got the championship series and you've got the challenger series. Uh 120 players in the champions field, higher purses, 72 holes, uh, 36 hole cut, and then the challenger series, um, smaller events, bigger fields, smaller purses. It's kind of like an A and B type flight, uh, as how they're doing it. Trying to get you know the premier players playing in more events more against each other, and still giving the other guys opportunities to play in events. So, did you watch any of it today, or did you just scroll socials and see what people are saying? Are you talking to me? Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 43:17

Yeah. Um, no, I I work today and I had to get up pretty early. So I I've found all my information through socials. I have a few people that send me stuff on a regular basis when something happens. Call them my sources, but I I learned uh very quickly that I I still check in and make sure that I do my research as well and not just go based on what I see. So I I try to look on a bunch of accounts and try to gather information from all these accounts and compile it into what I've seen. And that what you just showed is exactly the information I got. Is there's essentially a uh an A tier and a B tier, like Rory said. I don't want to say it like it is what. It is, but he called it glorified corn ferry events, and so I I found that very interesting. I think Brian Rolat personally brought that out uh in a press conference, maybe, or he at least mentioned something that hey, these challenge, I think it's the challenge series, right?

Joe 44:15

Yeah, you got the championship and the challenge champions and challenger.

SPEAKER_01 44:19

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think um, yeah, I I I pretty much gathered all my information from social media. I didn't watch any of it on what's your thoughts?

Joe 44:31

Oh, you want to know my thoughts, yes. Dude, this is why we invited you, Tim.

Matt 44:36

The hot takes are fan.

Joe 44:39

Tim has so many opinions, and this is you know, I've been in the comments with Tim. Like everybody can have their own opinion, guys. And uh, if you don't know Tim's background, he could tell you, but this is what we do, we're open, you know what I'm saying? I love it, man. We love the game of golf, and yes, I thought Tim would be the perfect person to to uh jump on tonight.

Matt 45:02

Uh turn me on to your content. I was watching on IG and you came across my feed, and I'm like, okay, and and it's like you have a very distinct voice, you have uh, you know, you just throw the you throw it out there, there's no sugar coating in it. It's like this is what's going on, this is what I think, blah blah blah. And I was like, you know, a couple times I'm like, get the fuck at well, you know, he's got a point, you know, and like another time I'm like, Yes, I agree 100% with well now. You kind of did, you know, so it's knowledge, knowledge and experience too.

Joe 45:32

And I do it, Tim. I send I send your clips to these guys all the time. They're like, Tim going off again, you know. Oh, that's all noise.

SPEAKER_01 45:40

That's so I it really makes my heart like I really so my intentions are to have conversations, and I always want to find the truth of everything. And so I always think and I think the truth is always ever evolving. I don't think in or to me, if we go to a situation and we think that that's the definite truth, I think we're missing out on something bigger. So if we start it through the medium of conversation and I get multiple opinions and outlooks, we can always come to a center point where I think that's the that's the reality of the situation because we all have different perceptions of what goes on in the world. And I think if we don't accept those perceptions and we think ours is the say all, then we end up really missing out on some valuable information, uh, especially with people like yourselves who are very up to date and do the research and and and have this experience uh on a personal level. So I I admire these conversations. Um, so anyways, too, for me, I I think we've in all fairness, I I'm not gonna say that the PGA tour is not trying to better themselves. Um, and uh to me, I think what's going on is I think we are losing a lot of steam after Tiger Woods came off the tour. And I think we proposed a lot of business models around him without thinking about the longevity of the tour. I think we really thought, okay, we're just gonna put all our cake in this basket and hope to God that it just creates such a big enough fire that we're not gonna have to worry about it continuing to burn. But now that the bar, I think the bar in the competition has rose, which is making it very hard to find another Tiger Woods because the level of competition is so stiff now. And I think because we have all this idea of the demand that Tiger created, that upped the value of everything that's associated with the tour. And so now that Tiger is slowly coming away from the tour, the demand is going with it. And because the demand is going with that or leaving the, I don't want to say it's leaving because I don't think the tour is declining, I think it's plateauing. I think the viewership is very much at a plateau right now. It's not really increasing or decreasing, it's just very, very static. And so I think what we are seeing here is we're seeing Brian Rolap trying to adapt the best he can, try to create a business model around this tour that is can hopefully going to succeed. And the problem is they they have made it so hard for a access point to get on the tour in terms of financially, and so to find these new players that create this emotional attachment for guys like us to watch the tour is is much more finite than it was back in the early 2000s. And so they're really at a crossroads here to where either we appease the sports strategic group, the investors, and we try our best to show them that the ROI is positive. So they will they will modify, do whatever they can, or we have to step back a little bit and we have to make some sacrifices and try to figure out really what's gonna create that longevity of the tour. And so I think Brian Rolap's in a very tough spot. Obviously, they're not gonna say that. I think he much more or less is going to always say that there's a positive outlook, which it in all fairness, as we know, the PGA tour is a very good thing. We love it, I love it, it's why we're here. It provides the most influence for the golf community, and to me, that that is the core of why we have influencers, YouTube golf, why we have these mini-tour golf, why we have the PGA of America continuing to do its thing. So it really does revolve around these super talented players that are providing that entertainment through skill level for us. And so I I personally think that what they should have done is they should have kept the condensed schedule, but they should have they shouldn't they need to start investing more money into the Corn Ferry tour. What they also should do is they need to start making these mini tours have bigger purses so that we have guys have incentives to start playing these mini tour events, and that way that will we can create more of these. I call them hometown heroes, and I know you guys know players that are very good, and they don't really have this avenue unless they get backed by somebody with enough money, yeah. Um, or they come from money. They they sort of at this static, okay, where do I go from here? Blah, okay, maybe I'll go to Q school. And if I fail at Q school, I can't afford to travel the country and follow the pre-qualifiers on tour. I obviously I'm not in the corn ferry tour, so there's just a lot of financial heartache for people that that don't have that opportunity. And so I think the tour would would have probably been better off thinking more or less about the longevity through the medium of accessibility. And I think instead of making two tours or two segments of the tour, I think what they're what they essentially have done is they've created a like in baseball, there's single A, double A, and AAA, and we've already had that system in place, but now we're having another system that's a little bit above triple A, but before the pros. And so it's not really tackling the problems at hand, it's just more or less hopefully expanding what they have to where they don't have as much financial pressure to continue on.

Joe 51:17

One of my biggest questions this whole time is, and I've seen it in the comments all the way all the way down in all the comments. Like, they didn't mention Corn Ferry at all. So does Corn Fairy become the Challenger Tour? Or is does that become the America's tour? Or like and they didn't not they uh from what I've seen, they haven't addressed that. And like, so if Corn Fairy becomes the Challenger Tour, that would be elevated purses, which they should have right, comparatively. That's what I'm I'm hoping happens. I think that would be great for the Corn Fairy because it's a PGA tour. Yes, and that's that's one thing that has gone unanswered. And I've seen a lot of people in in the comments saying, like, so what happens to Corn Fairy? What happens and they have not addressed it, right? And I think that's one one thing that they really need to address.

SPEAKER_01 52:16

I well, and also with court with the Q school, if we have guys that go to Q school now, are they going straight to the Challenger tour? Or do they go down to the Corn Ferry? Because a lot of these guys they'll end up spending somewhere between eight to ten up to thirty thousand dollars to get through the through the Q school, and then they're gonna end up at the Corn Ferry, and people don't know this, but when you go through Q School and you get qualified onto the Corn Ferry tour, they make you sign a paper that says you have to pay for your expenses involved with this tour. Now you can get a low-level sponsorship, that that might help, but at the end of the day, it some of these guys don't have the hundred, I think it's probably on average between $70,000 to $100,000 to fulfill a schedule on the Corn Ferry tour. And so these guys will qualify, they'll spend that money, then they do get on the tour, and then they have to find a low-level sponsor that hopefully gives them some of that funding to where they can even fulfill that tour. And if they start missing cuts immediately, well, now you get the story of him sleeping in a car, wherever, and then it turns into a situation where they're just struggling to have a decent way of living. And so I I it is a very interesting aspect to all this because you you've split the PGA tour in two. Okay, so for these young, aspiring guys that came out of college, are we gonna throw them on the Corn Ferry tour through the Q school? And then after that, they're gonna have to spend all this money to fulfill that. Hopefully, they play well, and then they're gonna show up on a challenger tour where they on top of that, they're going to have to really play well because the purses are not gonna be nearly as much as the championship tour. And so there's a lot of pressure for these up-and-coming players to really perform, and they're gonna have to perform very fast. And so that that scares me because a lot of there's a lot of players, Max Homa, Tony Final are examples that had to develop, right? They had to have a process of development to get to the these spots where they are now, and so I just don't want to even Brooks Kepka.

Matt 54:27

I mean, he went to Europe, yeah, yeah. Right the having those opportunities, you know, it's important. I I think one of the a couple of things that they did say that I I liked is no more sponsor exemptions on the champion side.

SPEAKER_00 54:41

Okay.

Matt 54:42

So and there's no like spots given, you know. You you you have to it's merit-based. You you only get on there for merit-based. It's not they said, is the tiger rule gonna come into effect? You know, 82 or wins, Sydney can it's it's it's gonna be merit-based. Um, they are gonna have Monday qualifiers. Yeah, they are gonna have money qualifiers. Money qualifiers will take place for the challenge. Um, so that that is a good thing because Monday queues were going away. So that's a another opportunity for people to to get in. Different golf courses. Um, they're talking match play. So there are some positives to it, um, but I think it's gonna be what like they need to figure out the funnel.

Joe 55:29

They need to figure out the funnel.

Matt 55:30

I think what just happened at the US Open on the first day when you had you know three amateurs playing really good, that created a buzz. And Wyndham Clark wire-to-wire lead, and there was more perfect situation, there was more coverage of the you know, the battle for well, there wasn't more coverage, but there was a lot of coverage for the battle for the low amateur because it's you know, Coyvon and the these super, super young, talented guys, and that like that's the design that people want, they want to see that they want those stories, yeah. And they've kind of taken that away from you know those developers that come up and and you went on the corn ferry and then you're on the tour, and and now they're saying, like, that's awesome, but it's not good enough.

Joe 56:22

Yeah, it's gonna be a couple more, a couple more stairs for you to climb.

SPEAKER_01 56:26

Yeah, yeah, that's right. So that's that's just gonna to me, that's gonna really put the opportunity in a smaller box because now if if we don't give these people or guys development time, that I call it the runway, right? Everyone needs a big enough runway to get their plane to take off. Some people obviously can take off pretty quick, and then there's some people that take a little bit of time, but as you've seen with again, Fino, he's a great example. He we gave him a pretty long, I think he was on professionally nine years before he really started. But look at him now. He's doing great, he's fantastic with the fans, and he's a good showcase to really shout out, Garson.

SPEAKER_05 57:08

Shout out.

SPEAKER_01 57:11

So I I yeah, I I think it's going to be. I just don't want, I just hope that I don't want to see a lot of these really good players start to think, okay, enough trying to pursue golf professionally. I'm gonna go to YouTube golf. Yeah, right, yeah.

Joe 57:30

Right in itself, too.

SPEAKER_01 57:32

Yeah, and I'm not saying YouTube golf doesn't deserve their space. I I I'm glad that we have YouTube golf and the influencers, that's something I've had to learn to deal with too. But I I've really accepted that side of golf. But to me, I think the real influence and the real part of golf, if we want to continue, I hate saying this, but growing the game, I think it it really builds from accessibility, right? And so I think once we build that accessibility first, then we can really start to see because in all fairness, I don't think the game needs to grow, I think it will grow naturally because it's so addicting as it is, as you guys

Growing the Game vs. Finding the Game

SPEAKER_01 58:11

know.

Joe 58:11

Once you get into it because it's the fucking best, it is the best game ever.

SPEAKER_01 58:16

I mean, you could be you could be a guy's listening to Mozart, super nerdy guy, or you can be some biker with tattoos, and you just I'm just trying to point out complete polar opposite personalities here. But if and I know you guys have seen both of those personalities absolutely love the game, right? And that's because there's a lot deeper connection to the game, it brings people together, yes, right, and it's an element of it's a game that brings it's it's really reflective of life, and so I think the game naturally teaches people who they are, and so it reveals a lot of things to us that sometimes we don't really see unless we happen to be in a situation, but I think golf really brings all that to the table, and so for really avid golfers, it's it's a way to have a therapeutic session to reflect on ourselves and to better ourselves. So I think there's a lot bigger uh parts at play.

Matt 59:10

I hate growing the game because Yeah, we're not big fans of it over here. It's I I'm a big fan of educating the golfer, not growing the game. If we can educate the current golfers, it'll be better. But growing the game to me, it it sounds force-fed. Like I have to do this. I we have to grow the game. We're ambassadors like Bryson D.Chambeau. We saw him here in Vegas at the live event, and you know, at the live events, they let you get a lot closer. And so I'm walking side by side with him between holes, and I'm I started chatting with him, and and he's like, you know, we're just we're just out here doing what we need to do to grow the game. And I was just like, stop, stop, gross, dude. Stop. I I think that the game's big enough for but I think that golf happens to people when it happens for a reason.

SPEAKER_05 1:00:04

Absolutely.

Matt 1:00:04

You you find the game, you don't need to grow it, it's there, you just need to find it. Some people find it when they're six years old and their dad takes them to the range and they love it. Some people like myself find it later on in life when it it just it hit me, you know. And you know, and I see people um I'm a fitter for Callaway, so I see a lot of people. I see a lot of people that have found the game, and I have a lot of respect for those people because when you find it, like you said, it's an addiction. And and all I hear about these people is oh, I started we met a guy uh Saturday at Legacy, been playing six months, obsessed, obsessed with it. Oh, yeah, right? And it's a drug, it's a drug. That to me is better than growing the game because it's it's the people that find the game are what makes golf amazing.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:09

Yep, yeah. That's well said, man. That's a hundred percent. I it what you just said is exactly how I feel, a hundred percent. I think if if at least for me, when I hear someone saying they're growing the game, I want to know what the underlying reason is.

Joe 1:01:25

Right. It sounds fucking it sounds pyramid-y, you know, yeah, right, you know, television evangelist kind of situation.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:32

Yeah, why why why do you want to grow the game? What's what what's the end goal for you? Are you growing it for it because it needs to grow? Because I can tell you what, after covet, boy, it there's not there's you go to a public golf course near a major city, dude.

Joe 1:01:47

You're not gonna find out that should be the slogan is we want to help people find the game. Yes, that's well said, man. Bro, you charge it, marketing team hit us up.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:00

He's got the calloway hookup, boy.

Matt 1:02:02

They might deserve your quantum.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:10

Yes, I knew it's gonna be on the next commercial. We'll see on the golf channel. Like, Calloway, you here to find your game.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:19

That's amazing. By the way, that new driver is awesome. And I I don't know how y'all do it because I feel like the I used to play an FT5 way back in the day. And I no offense, I'm a tireless guy. I like the soft little cushy feel. Looks like a marshmallow. If that I don't know why I feel that way, and I've always felt like callaways are a little hard for me. I get it though, because it they are damn good drivers, but man, that quantum is the perfect medium. It's not too soft, it's not too hard. Dude, I might go callaway in the next year, dude. I don't I can't I got I got I got a GT3, but I I keep every time I caddy for someone and I see one of those quantums, I'll hold a ball and I'll bounce it off the face, and I'm like, no, I can't buy a new driver right now, dude. Leave me alone. I'm not doing this.

Joe 1:03:09

The quantum is sick.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:11

It looks good, it feels good. I'm I'm telling you, and you guys got the triple diamond max, which I find very interesting. It's a low spinning head, but it's bigger, right? So it's obviously got the MOI that's pretty solid, but the PC is more more draw biased too.

Matt 1:03:27

I mean, the the triple diamond is a super fade by his head. And it it kills me. That that's one thing that I can't stand about like my golf spy and all the periodicals that put out there, you know, driver tested the best drivers, the Callaway triple diamond. I'm like, fuck, because now everybody that thinks they need a new driver is coming out and go, Well, I want to try the triple diamond. Like, okay, well, what shot shape do you hit? Oh, I play a draw. Oh fuck. Okay. Are you sure you want to try the triple diamond? Well, my golf spy said it's the best. Yeah, like all right, here you go. Dude, I can't hit this, I can't hit a draw.

Joe 1:04:01

No, you can't it doesn't work that way. It doesn't work that way.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:06

Oh, that's so funny. Well, I think it's the name too, triple diamond. That just sounds exclusive. I'm part of that club. Oh, yeah, that thing is it's got the name. It's it's it's like McDonald's, you know, it's got that name, like triple diamond back in the day was you know pretty exclusive for the boys. Oh, yeah. Yeah, oh, that's so good. Um, but yeah, I I to tie everything back in, yes. I think I I have good hopes for the PGA tour. I just I really I want them to maybe focus more on how to make it easier for these guys to pursue professional golf, and that way we I call them hometown, like I was saying earlier, I call them hometown heroes because I want the guys that we know that are very good at least get a chance, and even if they fail, who cares?

Joe 1:05:01

At least they got their shot, they got their shot.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:03

Yeah, because you know there's gonna be that one guy, his dad's a roofer, he's he never really played many goals, he played college paint the picture, paint the picture, yeah. Right, and it's just some guy, and you see him, and he's grown up on this public course, and it's dirt lies. You know exactly the kind of story I'm talking about. And you see him, and he's up against these big boys, and he performs well and gets top 10, and you're thinking, Fuck, we got another John Daly boys, we got one, yeah. And and that emotional attachment for us, we don't even we don't even care that he's winning, it's just the fact that he came from somewhere that's relatable to us, yeah, right? And I and no offense to the the country club kids, god I'm glad y'all are part of the game too. We want you guys to be, but that's why I think golf is so beautiful because it doesn't matter where you came from, what you're about. All it cares about is the ball in the face meeting. And so if we have all these demographics. And all these social classes and they all combine, man, then you're gonna start to create this emotional attachment again. And then I think that's when they're gonna see those ratings go up, the viewership start to slowly incline, and then we have more of this. And this is where I think it stems down all the way to the college golf level, is to me, and this might be a little bit too much of a hot take, but I don't think we give America golfers that much credit or really that much opportunity. And if you've noticed a lot of these high D1 level programs, they have a lot of international players. And I've always thought, okay, we need to maybe limit only one international player per team and keep it to where it's 80 to 90 percent focused on Americans because I and again, I'm not whatever. Maybe we can eventually create a world tour to where we have a we travel around different countries and we bring everybody together that way. I'm not trying to take golf away from us, but I just think in the states, we need to find figure out a way to develop these guys better, give them more of a chance to develop, and so and then that'll create that emotional attachment for guys like us, and then we can really and I'm not saying I don't root for international players. There's a quite a few guys that I really enjoy watching, especially at the Masters, like Hideki. That was freaking awesome, really nice dude, right? Great moment, yeah. So I'm not saying that Americans don't find that appealing. I just think there it would be maybe slightly more appealing to watch another John Daly or somebody that developed through some middle class situations and got to that stage and then performed well. Dude, I'm in my heart's beating right now, just saying that.

Joe 1:07:48

I'll say I think the grass league could be something that feeds that. You know what I mean? Yeah, not the grass league.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:58

I've heard that.

Joe 1:07:59

Yeah, they're they're doing something, you know. It's small, but they're doing something.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:03

I I you're right. I think uh someone mentioned that to me a month ago, and I haven't I didn't really put too much thought into it. I I I probably will after this show, but I I I was really excited to hear that people were sort of thinking in a way of okay, let's let's let's create this runway for people, which is why I partly enjoy YouTube golf because I think a lot of these guys, Brad Dolkey, right?

Joe 1:08:30

Uh well they're good enough, you know, and find a way.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:33

Yeah, right. They're obviously good enough players, but to see these guys come from a different they didn't come from the the normal rise up through Q-school and all this, they found a different avenue to gain that opportunity. I think that's really cool. So yeah, I again I'm not I'm not just I don't I don't try to just to just blab negativity. I think people find me sometimes bitter and negative, but I I really do find that there's some there's quite a few positives too within the uh golf space, especially when it comes to PGA tour.

Matt 1:09:06

Let's

U.S. Open Conditions & Wyndham Clark's Win

Matt 1:09:07

see if we can get some drab hot hard takes on the US Open that just took place.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:13

Oh, okay. Well they're go ahead. No, I was gonna say go ahead, sorry.

Matt 1:09:19

The the course, it was so funny. I saw somebody post it. It's like there's like a US open timeline leading up to it. Oh, the conditions are gonna be crazy. Friday or Thursday comes, the course, the scores go low, they're worried about it, they dry it out. Friday is a shit show, Saturday, it's who knows what's gonna happen, and then Sunday it's the best open ever. You know, it's it's like it happens every year. You know, and uh I had some friends that were like Shinnikok needs to never host another US Open again. No, yeah, because uh super fast fairways, super wide fairways, you know, greens that are unmanageable, blah, blah, blah. And it's it's I get it. You have your takes. You have your takes.

Joe 1:09:59

I was like, comments like on Tuesday, they're like, they already lost the greens.

unknown 1:10:03

Yeah.

Matt 1:10:05

It happens every every US Open, it happens. They're everyone's super paranoid about the conditions. Um, it's like if you don't want to have these conditions, stop hosting it out in the Hamptons, you know, bring it more inland where the weather's not gonna fuck you. Uh so it's awesome. Yeah, uh I I like seeing the challenge. You know, it's it's supposed to be one of the toughest challenges in golf. I I want to see guys, gotta grind perplexed with a 90-yard wedge shot, you know. You know, I it's it's one thing if you're playing like they're playing the travelers this weekend, they're gonna be throwing darts back in the ball up close to the pin, and somebody's gonna soft e boys, softy boys for sure. I I like you know, it it it becomes more relatable to me because I'm not somebody that hits a dead center in the face every single time, hits my numbers perfect every single time, and and has the shots. I stand there sometimes going, this could go this way, this could go that way, you know. And so to see those guys have that and have to deal with that, it's it's fun for me. I enjoy it.

SPEAKER_05 1:11:11

I love it.

Matt 1:11:12

And what's what's your take on US open conditions at Shandok that just happened?

SPEAKER_01 1:11:18

Oh, the conditions I think were great. Uh, I actually wish they made them, I actually wish they made them more firm. I like to hear those guys bitch, dude. It's unreal, one of my favorite things ever. I'm not, and again, to me, dude, complain all you guys want. This is the U.S. Open. Welcome to the show, boys. If you if you came here to find a fair golf course, then I don't know why. This isn't this is our major, the United States major. Like that's I at least for me as a fan, dude. I I want to see these guys kind of bitch, dude. No offense to to them, but I mean I I want three over to win. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, well, what's the point? You guys play the same pitch and driving pitch all day long where you hit driver and you got sandwiching every green. I fine. I want you to show up on a really narrow golf course where it's super windy and the greens are firm, and even a 90-yard shot makes you nervous. That's yeah, that that is what I want. I I don't think I don't think many fans, at least for me, are not sitting here wishing that these guys were shooting 17 under at a U.S. open. I don't that's no, no, we don't want that. No, no. So I to me, there was a situation where they said that they were going to infuse the greens with water. Syringe is the worst syringe. There you go, right. So it was in between the waves, right? So the morning wave would be done. The last time of the morning wave, they were gonna go to each green, and they were gonna obviously make them make the thatch have more water into it so it would hold better. And that's sort of to me, I'm thinking, wow, no, let it burn the cardio dealt.

Joe 1:12:57

You get the cardio dealt. Yeah, let it get the late wave, you're gonna get the early wave tomorrow. Let it burn.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:05

Let that thing burn. I want that the crispy, I want them to be putting on brown greens for that. Uh I'm not saying water to keep the golf course and and for healthy for what you need, but man, shit. I I want to see some like John Daly at Pinehurst when he got pissed off because the ball kept rolling off the green, so he decided to call it a day. I think Phil Mickelson, I think Phil Mickelson had that same situation. Yeah, that's what we want. We want to see them be human beings because when they go play the John Deere Classic, and you're thinking, well, yep, Scotty Shuffler's 24 under going into this last three holes. You're thinking, okay, dude. No offense. I love watching good golf, but these guys, it's hit it as far as you can, find it, more than likely have a pitch and wedge or less in. Okay, I'm gonna stick it to eight, ten, twelve feet, make the putt. Okay, great. Uh, not saying they don't deserve that, but when it comes to a major championship, we have a Gussa where it's the English style golf where everything's manicured and it's to the point, you know what you're gonna get, great. But I think the U.S. Open is a little bit of a combination of the English and the Scottish style golf to me. You get the high rough, you get the unlucky bounces, you get have the element of chance involved. It's not all about just hitting it into a window and you're gonna get a guarantee. You got to get the right bounce, you gotta have the right spin, you gotta have to hit the right shot shape. I think that's the Scottish element of golf, which to tie that into old Mac, that's why old Mac is so fascinating because it is 100% Scottish. So you have this element of chance there. And I think the US Open in the past has combined the two very well, right? And so I think that's something to me that as a fan, I wish the conditions were just a little bit more harsh to me. I think that would have been really cool to watch those guys kind of struggle a little bit.

Joe 1:14:57

But I think one of the things about in majors in general is just like this idea of score to par. No, it matters if you beat the field. Yes, we want to see these guys struggle, right? Yes, you could be plus like like you said, plus three, plus four. I mean, to see only four players, I think it was four players under par was awesome.

SPEAKER_01 1:15:25

Yes, yeah.

Joe 1:15:26

So it par does not matter at the end of the day. You are playing the golf course and you are playing the field. Yes, par does not matter. And we wanna we wanna we want to see him bleed because that's the identity of the US Open. We want to see him bleed. And if you're gonna have an identity as a as a as a major, it's the one.

SPEAKER_01 1:15:50

Yeah, I agree. I 100%. What'd you guys think about the fan thing?

Matt 1:15:56

About people talking shit to Wendham Clark, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:15:58

The fans, man.

Joe 1:15:59

Those New York fans were great, and he won he won him over, though, I think at the end of the day. I mean, he kicked he kicked in a locker at Oakmont last year. I know. I mean, you know what I'm saying?

Matt 1:16:10

Like he's thrown club, and he's a hot head.

Joe 1:16:14

Uh, I think he I think he did very well with handling that though.

Matt 1:16:18

He did obviously because he won't the thing that he did well is he won. You know, that's what I'm saying.

SPEAKER_01 1:16:24

Back night, he did great.

Matt 1:16:26

You guys can all suck it. Uh talk shit all you want. I'm holding through him, man.

SPEAKER_01 1:16:31

He went out and did it. He went out and did it. I I think that's gonna, I think secretly that might go down as one of the top uh top two, top three major wins in the last 10 years, just because of the university he had to handle.

Matt 1:16:44

The course that was in front of him that he had to play, the people on his field, the person in his group that's going for a career grand slam.

Joe 1:16:49

That he's only one of four to win it uh two US opens in three years, right? It was Jack, Tiger, and who else? I forget, but yeah, good for him, man.

SPEAKER_01 1:17:00

Might be Hale Erwin, actually. I might have done that. Um, no, but yeah, I think yeah, I got a card here. Let me find Hale.

Epic Jack Nicklaus & Hale Irwin Caddie Story

Dan 1:17:08

Yeah, I was gonna say I think Hale Erwin did 9193. I think. I guess.

SPEAKER_00 1:17:16

I got a little chip.

SPEAKER_01 1:17:17

Oh, look at my man, yeah. Oh, that's so cool. Yeah, I and and he's playing with the number one golfer in the world. Oh, there you go. I am. Oh, I'll tell you about Hale. So I catted at Cherry Hills for a while, uh, about a year and a half, and he's a member out there. And so I gotta spend some time with him. And no shit, the entire loop, we would he would just feed me, would not talk golf to me at all. He we would just eat, he would bring a bunch of these snacks and he would tell me what I think, and we would have to rate them pretzel bike, and he'd bear it all. It was it was amazing. I'd stand on the back of the cart and he'd drive and he'd say some random shit, whatever. And I I would zap a pen. Oh yeah, hail, it's 137. He goes, Oh, okay. Yeah, I you only hit it 136 or 139. And I'm thinking, yeah, dude, I'm not getting into that conversation anymore. And he would just start laughing. He didn't give a shit, man. He was a great, he's one of the most down-to-earth people because he he knew right when he was saying that, he'd look at me and I'd be like, 'Yeah, okay, no, we're not getting. I'm not I I know who you are, but we're you don't have to do pull this crap on me.' He's um really nice dude, man. Um, I actually have I have a story about him and Jack Nicholas. It's the only time I met Jack. Um, by the way, Jack's hands are huge.

Joe 1:18:38

That's and made me realize a small guy and that like huge.

SPEAKER_01 1:18:42

Well, he's always what is he 5'11, six feet maybe? I can't remember the height. I know he's a little tall. I'm only 5'8. I don't even think he's that tall. I to me, I thought he was eye-level, but I I'm I'm trying to again. This was such a it was I was so in shock at this moment. I I yeah, so we're at Cherry Hills, and Hale texted uh the I never I don't have Hale's number. He texted the um caddy program, said, Hey, uh, I'm coming in this day. Uh is Tim available, blah blah blah. So I go in, we we do this loop, and or I'm starting the loop, and he's there and he says, Hey, my guest isn't coming for a little later. That's fine. So I'm with him and three other guys, and then the group behind me. Well, hey, first of all, Terry Hill says this downhill par four, it's short, you can drive it, and then the next hole is this par four, and it kind of goes the other way. And so Jack, I think, was just gonna mess with him and play a surprise or whatever. And so we drive, we drive down, we get everything, play the hole. Me and another caddy were on the second T box, we're carrying, we're not on the back of a cart. And Jack walks up behind the caddy, pinches him, and says, Hey man, can you guys clean this tea box? I don't, I don't, and he's always, and I didn't know this, but I've heard multiple stories about him. He's real anal about tea boxes, he does not like teas anywhere. He wants it as clean as a baby's ass. I mean, he wants that thing spick and span. So but the fact that Jack Nicholas just walks up behind the tree, we didn't see him at all. And he's because we saw Hale and them talking to somebody, and we're thinking, Oh, okay, whatever. And as caddies, we try to not be nosy, we try to keep to ourselves. We're there to to serve, we're not there to to we're not hanging out with our friends, we're here to provide a service. So we we try to be very moderate with our conversation, so we're not really looking around going, oh hey, hail, what you doing? We're just you know trying to stay in the moment. But anyway, so Jack goes and pinches the other caddy, and I'm sitting there and I look, and we both look, and we're like, Holy shit, dude, it's Jack Nicholas. Hey man, see ya. And the rest of the round, there was not a T anywhere near a T-box, no chance. I we get to the T box early and we're picking them fuckers up because it's like Jack told us what to do, dude. We're like, okay, that's the godfather. Easy. We're gonna have to really, but it was he was obviously a really nice dude, shook her hands, and and you know, in the caddy world, you don't get autographs or pictures, you just shake their hand, be nice and leave. You know, we're not again, we're not there to to be all buddy buddy with them, even though we'd like to be sometimes, but can't be fanboys as a caddy. That's no man, but it was the he just my the the the jump on that guy. Well, he was just like, Holy fuck, dude, that's Jack Nicholas. God damn, all right, here we go. Good cleaning teas, dude. And I'm not kidding, you every damn tea box for the rest of the round. We are the divot tools are out, we're picking teas, like par threes, we're putting them in the box. The other teas were literally putting them in the pocket. I probably had like six or seven, at least, maybe even eight broken teas in my pocket because I'm paranoid. Uh that was so wild because that's the only time I've met Jack. And sure enough, he's just like, Hey, we we want these tea boxes nice and clean for our guests. I'm thinking, Oh my fucking god, dude. Yes, sir. It's like, yes, yes, sir. Thank you. We'll we'll we'll do that, sir. Uh anything we can do? Anything anything else? Nope, nope. We're like, okay, we're these tea boxes are gonna be fucking clean by the end of the oh man, but really nice, dude. Yeah, I obviously when I shook his hand, that's the one thing I'll never forget. I'm thinking, dude, man, some paws on him. Fuck, no wonder they called him the bear. You damn paws, man. Those things are massive. But uh, it's funny because I hail after the round, he came up to me, he goes, Yeah, that's a pretty big guest, huh? And I'm thinking, yeah, dude, you could have warned us, man, or something.

Matt 1:22:47

Um touched on something earlier when you said that these guys play the same, you know, courses and and just bomb it down there and have a wedge in.

SPEAKER_01 1:22:55

Yes.

Matt 1:22:56

So equipment talk, uh, the ball rollback has been delayed. Um I saw that. My I'll give you what my thoughts are on it, and I'm curious to hear yours. Um so I've always had a uh ideology that the the clubs are much easier to hit now, right? Uh Taylor made had an ad where Scotty hits it 300 off the toe in the middle of the fairway. You know, and with the technology that they've had in these drivers um that allow miss hits to go straighter, now they still yank them off the course every now and then. But on a consistent, these guys squared up so good and their miss hits are not punishment anymore. Um, now you have athletes who back, you know, 20, 30 years ago, there wasn't, you know, the guys didn't have uh a physio, they didn't have uh uh Masseuse, they didn't have all these options that are available to them now. Then we brought in analytics, you know, like look what happened with moneyball and baseball. As soon as people started figuring, oh, you have to hit this launch at this speed to get more home runs, it changed baseball. Um that's happened in golf where guys now are optimizing their swing patterns and equipment to hit the ball further. Would making the drivers less forgiving be a better rollback than changing the golf ball?

SPEAKER_01 1:24:24

100%.

The Equipment Rollback: Ball vs. Driver Heads

SPEAKER_01 1:24:25

I I was I was just about to go there. I think leave the ball alone. You cannot improve the ball anymore or less, leave it alone. Ball is fine. What we need to do is make the driver head smaller. We need to only allow them to hit blades. If you're playing on a professional PGA tour or Corn Ferry tour, you can only hit a certain club, you cannot hit any sort of cavity back, basically limit it to where you have to hit certain clubs. And I think what we're really tackling here is the element of ball striking is slowly starting to be diluted, yeah, and we're taking all that away, and it's starting to get more into a power game. And I think that's something that is going to maybe kind of take away the core elements of golf. Because I think golf to me is really about the element of ball striking, hence why we love Mo Norman, Ben Hogan, Jack Nicholas. Right, right. You have these ball strikers, Mac O'Grady, another great guy. Um, you have these guys that you know to watch Jack Nicholas hit a one iron off the deck was unfreaking and back then too, it was unbelievable. And that to me really separated the the true ball strikers and the true professionals to the amateurs because they it wasn't the how far they hit it, it was essentially how well they hit it and how well they can manipulate the ball and how well they could shot shape and create that that art. And I think that art is starting to again get a little lost through the technology phase. And so what we can do is we can create a driver that's 200 cc's, right? I'm not saying we'd take it to wood, I think we could still use titanium and steel, but make the sweet spot smaller on the driver, force them to hit irons that that really makes them hit that sweet spot again. I think the wedges are fine. Keep the spin on the wedges and the putter. I don't think we need to change any of that. But if we keep making these drivers easier to hit and we keep allowing them to play irons that are forgiving, well, we're essentially again taking away that element of that artistry there, and it's going to be turned into a power game. And I think that's something we've seen through Bryson, through Rory, uh Cam Young. Um, and it's it's a lot of these guys now, they're overpowering these golf courses. And if you, I'm sure you've seen it, you see videos where they go play a tournament and they are at a practice round, and there's the guy shows up, they're persimmon wood or something. They say, Hey, John Ron, why don't you hit this persimmon wood, man? Show us what you got, and then they'll just hit it, and it only goes like 270. Yeah, right. And you're thinking, okay, wait a minute. There's a let's throw that in there. And and and then on top of all the technology advancement, we can obviously we can we know how to fix that, I think. But I think once we get to these golf courses, we need to narrow the fairways up. And to me, we need to figure out grow the rough in, make it to where if it's 280 plus, the fairway's only so wide. Then that will force them to get into the rough if they don't hit it well. And then if they're only allowed to hit blades out of the rough, right? That's really gonna force them to think, okay, I gotta hit the fairways. And again, it just brings in that element of ball striking. And I I think you're 100% correct, man. I I'm with you 100%. There's there needs to be more, I guess, talks about on modifying the golf clubs to where each and each company can make these drivers. They can, hey, these are the recreational drivers. Okay, if you want to play on these professional level tours, even the sectional tours within the PGA of America section, these are the clubs that you have to hit. And then you guys can make some new ones, still have a sell point there, still brand in your way.

Matt 1:28:35

I mean, they do it anyways now. There's so much tour stuff now that's tour only. Right. It's not like the tour only stuff is making its way to whatnot.

SPEAKER_01 1:28:44

I mean, sometimes it does, but yeah, right. And so I I it's that to me would be that would be the way to do it, I think.

Matt 1:28:52

I I love the forgiveness. Don't get me wrong. I'm not talking about the ret golfers. Yeah, recreational golfers. You know, I I don't I don't get it far, so I love the forgiveness and and all that, but I just a hundred percent think ball striking as a I mean, if to to be an elite golfer in the in the era prior to Tiger Woods and the beginning of the Tiger Woods era, you had to be a ball striker. You had to. I mean, like Payne Stewart was one of the best ball strikers, you know, and didn't hit it long, wasn't super deep, but my goodness, you put him in any conditions in any shot, he had it. 100% and that has gone away.

SPEAKER_01 1:29:32

Yes, yeah, and I think guys like Ben Hogan and all that, they would they would probably really attest to hey, I don't care how far you hit it, I want you to I want to see you hit three clubs the same distance taking a full swing, right? I want to see how good you are at really controlling your ball. The Fred Funks, man. That's a that's a sleeper talk right there. I'm watching him hit t-shots, that was incredible. He didn't hit it far, but dude, he would go days without missing a fairway. And and we're sort of missed, we're sort of steering away from that. The payne stewart, that's a that's another great one. Uh Ben Crenshaw, right? He was a really good ball striker for um Texas. You know what's funny is the there's the sixth hole at trails, and it's it's a straightaway part four. There's a bunker right in the middle, and every caddy will tell you to go left because it's a massive fairway, and everything slopes down. But if you go down the right, it's real narrow. There's bunkers short left, there's hazard on the right, or out of bounds on the right, and well, I would say out of bounds is trees, and then there's another bunker long, so you have this window, but man, it's not it's very tight, and it's you got to have a good distance control, and that's the way Ben Crenshaw plays the hole because that if you hit it over there, it is the best angle into the green. It is way easier of a second shot, but you have to earn it, and so we call that Crenshaw Alley, right? And it's and then so if you ever get back to trails and you see that sixth hole, we'll be there in January next year. There you go, dude. Just remember you'll go to the sixth hole and you'll see this bunker,

Bandon Trails' Crenshaw Alley & Persimmon Woods

SPEAKER_01 1:31:15

and you look to the right, and it's super narrow fairway, and then you got the left, it's wide open. And if you hit down Crenshaw Alley, obviously you got to earn it. Man, I knew I had him. I knew I had him right there. There he is. I knew I had him. Uh, you know what? Speaking of the equipment, by the way, there's caddies in our yard that have grown into playing persimmon woods, and they have found a huge enjoyment playing these persimmon woods, and so I'm actually I have a guy named Trevor Larson.

Joe 1:31:49

He owns out Larson, shout out Trevor Larson.

SPEAKER_01 1:31:54

Larson's calling me.

Joe 1:31:55

Let's go.

SPEAKER_01 1:31:56

He is a fantastic guy. He is helping me. Yeah, okay. So he to me has helped me through a lot of my social media stuff in terms of legend. I guess really just how to deal with the politics and and and whatnot. And I think he's uh he's just a really nerf dude. And I we did a show together and we talked a lot about his his club working and how he what he thinks about all this stuff. And so we text maybe every month, every couple weeks. We'll I'll kind of spit some shit to him here and there, but I'm gonna have him build me some persimmon woods, and I'm gonna sort of go down this road of okay, blades, persimmon woods. Let's go play golf course where the that element of ball striking, and again, we have we have five or six caddies, they do it, and they swear by it. They think it's one of the funnest things.

Joe 1:32:49

I got a Larson Wood downstairs in the garage. See, okay, that's fucking fun, dude.

SPEAKER_01 1:32:54

I I'm I'm telling you, I I haven't done it yet, but I have some old titaless blades, the 695. I don't want to say they're old, they're 2004. There's six the 695 muscle backs. It was the Z cut, the ones when Adam Scott first got on tour, right? I do I remember being a kid and I was watching. You talk about a freaking golf swing, dude. Dear God, I love it. Lisa right there. That's the moment, man. Dude, that's that's uh love that swing. And watching him as a kid, I I remember seeing those irons, and I'm thinking, dude, I gotta get those. And obviously, when I got them, I couldn't hit them at all. They were way too hard to hit. So so now I've I've obviously I can hit them a little bit, but there's still parts of me I I mishit the shit out of those things. But I I I think to tie in the equipment thing, to bring back that element of ball striking makes you appreciate the game, I think a little bit more in a way, right? So that that in a way for you recreational golfers, if you ever want to try that, what it I'm not saying don't do it, and I'm saying don't invest in the technology. I think the technology is great, but every now and then, if you really want to see what these guys back in the 80s and 90s really had to deal with, um, I wouldn't say then maybe more like 80s and before, but that man, to hit a persimmon wood, dude, you better be on.

Joe 1:34:14

You better be on when you nut when you nut it, yeah. Get yourself uh persimmon wood and some silverscots and get out there and play some golf.

SPEAKER_00 1:34:26

Right on uh Tommy Armor, huh?

Matt 1:34:31

Oh that's awesome to the show Quinn.

SPEAKER_00 1:34:36

I know how many kids you have.

Joe 1:34:39

Those two. I got I got three names. She's name her name is Quinn Poppy, named after Quintero and Poppy Hills. Okay. That's awesome. I I don't have uh he's gonna get to play Bad Page. Okay, that's right.

Matt 1:35:03

Uh I don't know if I'm gonna play Beth Page. I think I'm gonna I think I'm gonna play a couple of the courses in the Westchester area um near Wingfoot. So gonna gonna check out that oh we lost Joe to the internet. Look at him, he's just frozen. He's got the baby monitor on the Wi-Fi.

SPEAKER_00 1:35:26

That's awesome.

Matt 1:35:28

That is Joe, you gotta be here for the giveaway because it's it's you have the stuff, so get your shit figured out. Yeah, that's amazing. We'll go to some questions here. Uh, what if all the pros had to play the same stock woodheads and irons like you described, roll 200 cc and blades? The only customization customization is their shafts and grips.

SPEAKER_01 1:35:58

That would be interesting. I I'm telling you, it would it would bring back that element of ball striking again. I think that would be very fascinating to see, and I think it would it would force the pros to sort of bring an element of strategy to the game.

Matt 1:36:14

Better you go. All right, good job, Joe. Uh, let's see. Let me how many people we got in the giveaway. 16 people in the giveaway, which is terrible. Oh, Joe, what are you doing? You adding a third screen?

Joe 1:36:28

Oh, okay. No, I mean no, I'm in the no, watch out. There we go. Sorry. Two Joes.

Dan 1:36:35

This is crazy.

Matt 1:36:39

What are you doing?

Joe 1:36:41

I was gonna show Tim my my uh course flown flag collection.

SPEAKER_00 1:36:48

Oh, look at that, dude. Yeah, yeah.

Joe 1:36:51

Oh, you're in your boy right here, Pete die right here.

SPEAKER_00 1:36:54

Yeah.

Joe 1:36:57

All right, let me leave this one.

SPEAKER_01 1:36:59

Oh, that's amazing. What is he? I was on Sheep Ranch today, by the way. It was it was nice.

Joe 1:37:04

Yeah, hey, that that dude right there, Dan. Yes, be free when we were up there last time. Ace on seven on sheep.

SPEAKER_00 1:37:12

Oh, that's a great hole. Sleeper hole. Oh, right there. That is so cool. I I tell you, that course is one of those courses you can just it's really enjoyable.

Joe 1:37:29

Um but you can deal with it, Lord.

Matt 1:37:34

Not recording a podcast or anything.

SPEAKER_01 1:37:36

Not with the I'm sorry, I'm sorry, kids. I know my kids are upstairs watching a movie, so God knows what I'm about to walk into.

SPEAKER_00 1:37:43

Yeah, also shout out to this guy right here. There you go. Oh, yeah, dude.

Joe 1:37:50

This guy unbelievable. All right, so what are we doing? Are we killing it? We might need a part two to this at some point.

Matt 1:37:57

Yeah, well, you're gonna have to come back on because we could talk golf like this forever. So uh let me bring up the giveaway tool here. Let me add the screen.

Joe 1:38:05

Also, it's speak your stuff, Tim. You dude, I I love your podcast. I've watched a few.

SPEAKER_01 1:38:12

Uh thank you.

Joe 1:38:13

Yeah, thank you.

SPEAKER_01 1:38:15

I I'm I'm learning as we go, and yeah, I I I'm all for anyone who wants to come on my show that's that's got an interesting story or wants to have an interesting point of view or or bring some to the table. I'm I'm wide open, man. Yeah, love it.

Matt 1:38:31

All right, here we go. Let's draw the winner. Gotta be present to win.

Live Giveaway Draw & Winner

Joe 1:38:36

Okay, you're gonna have to give me a couple minutes, dude. Who's it gonna be? The green last week again, back to back.

Matt 1:38:46

No, he won last week.

SPEAKER_05 1:38:47

No, sorry, I still have your I still have your grip right here.

Joe 1:38:58

Somebody can pick it up.

Matt 1:39:00

He's gonna bring it, he's gonna stop by Aliante Saturday. So Torres.

Joe 1:39:05

Oh, Torres!

Matt 1:39:07

Are you still here, Chris?

Joe 1:39:09

Chris, you better be here, bro.

Matt 1:39:11

No, not again, spin again.

Joe 1:39:13

I don't know if Chris is here. He's in California right now.

Matt 1:39:16

No, he's I I talked with him today. I met him today and and chatted, so he's in town.

Joe 1:39:23

You never know because he he always posts shit late.

Matt 1:39:26

Oh, yeah. Uh yeah, Joe, he's coming by Aliante Saturday, so bring that up.

Joe 1:39:33

Remind me, you know, I forget.

Matt 1:39:35

All right, Torres. Uh, let's see. Sorry, buddy. Ding ding ding ding ding. The trials and tribulations of of a live show.

Joe 1:39:46

Okay, you guys gotta be quiet though, dude.

Matt 1:39:49

They're gonna go. There you go, Theo. Yeah, just hey, just like that.

SPEAKER_05 1:39:55

Screenshot that.

Matt 1:39:56

There you go. I'm here every week and I never win with winner in the background. Screenshot that. There you go.

Joe 1:40:02

There you go. Gotcha, got it.

Matt 1:40:05

Oh, he's gotta pick now. He's gotta pick which one he wants because it was a buyer. Oh, yeah.

Joe 1:40:09

Do you want a hitting green's head cover? You want your choice of Katie's on now. We can't do that one. You can pick the Max Tour or the Tony Green now Ultimate or a Hitting Greens head cover. The TF Foundation.

SPEAKER_01 1:40:33

Awesome.

Joe 1:40:34

So you can pick which one, or you can get the Hitting Greens head cover feel. Yeah, I think you already have one of these.

Matt 1:40:45

Let us know.

Joe 1:40:47

Yeah.

Matt 1:40:47

Let us know. We'll get that out to you.

Joe 1:40:49

Let us know. You can text me too.

Matt 1:40:51

Yeah. Uh and also the I got one of the X will he take an XL shirt? Will that work?

Joe 1:40:58

If if you want a t-shirt. He seems kind of small. The max, I got it. Oh thanks. Thanks for picking the head cover, Theo. I thank you so much. Kidding.

Matt 1:41:06

Hey, XL, XL C shirt. Uh gray or black. Which one do you want?

Joe 1:41:12

Are you XL, Theo?

Matt 1:41:16

Yeah, Centers.

Joe 1:41:17

Which one?

Matt 1:41:18

Gray or Black?

Joe 1:41:21

He's in Vegas, so he can come pick it up, maybe.

Matt 1:41:24

Gray or black. Black. Boom. Okay. That one.

Joe 1:41:28

He's gonna wear it to the sphere. Oh man. He's an engineer at the sphere.

Matt 1:41:38

Well, I can't thank you enough for hopping on. Thank you so much. Oh, thank you for having me. This was a blast. Uh everybody uh in the in the show notes for this after I do all the edits tomorrow. You'll there'll be a link to his channel, his social pages. Check it out if you like hot takes. If you're here for the hot dogs, that's your guy right there.

SPEAKER_05 1:41:59

That's your guy.

Matt 1:42:00

That's that's right there. Some of the best, some of the best takes, but with thought. It's easy to throw shit out there. It's difficult to do it with thought.

SPEAKER_01 1:42:10

So thank you. Yeah, and again, for those who know, I I try not to, I'm not always on the hot. I try to, I I'd be reasonable. So don't don't feel like I'm just starting shit for no reason. So but yes, I tend to say the thing that everyone thinks that they need to say, and I I tend to go ahead and say that out loud. So um, but it's been an honor to be on the show, guys. I really appreciate the opportunity. It was really good to meet you all.

Matt 1:42:35

We're gonna have to connect with you when we come there in January.

SPEAKER_01 1:42:38

Yes, let me know. And then uh down the road, if you guys ever want to do it again, uh feel free to let me know. I'll give all of you guys a follow too, so that way we can constantly connect. And yeah, anything I can ever do down the road, just give me a shout or send me a message, man. I'd love to help out or do whatever I can do. So thanks again for the opportunity.

Joe 1:42:58

So, real quick before before you sign off on saying everything, Matt's gonna tell you something after this. But where can people watch your podcast? Where do they follow you? Okay, all that stuff. How do they request you if they're coming abandoned? Give give your shout outs and do your thing. Okay, then Matt's gonna tell you something after.

SPEAKER_01 1:43:16

Okay,

Where to Find Tim & Episode Outro

SPEAKER_01 1:43:17

so I am at Looper Talk 1927. Uh, the 1927 is the date that my home course was built. Uh it's Asheville Municipal. I'm from North Carolina originally, so I live out in Oregon.

Joe 1:43:30

North Carolina Golf.

SPEAKER_01 1:43:31

Yeah, I am very far away from home. I met my wife out here, so that's why I'm currently staying here. But yeah, so YouTube and Instagram, it's LooperTalk 1927. Um, also I'm on Facebook, but I don't use that very much. I would stick with those two there. I also have an app, it's called Verified Caddy Network. If you want, it's in beta testing. What it is is it's a LinkedIn for caddies, so they get ranked. They also have reviews, they can show you, showcase themselves to the public. Uh, golf courses and players can also get on the app to find caddies. Say if you travel to a random place and you know that they have a caddy program, but you don't know who to request or what to do. Hopefully, this app will give you the best caddies from that golf course, and you can directly message them and hopefully connect that way. So it's in beta testing as we speak, but I'm hoping within the next few months I can get everything chiseled out and we can create something. Um, again, I'm all about accessibility, so I'm hoping that app can create some access for caddies to have better opportunities. Other than that, um, that is it for me. But I am very active on Instagram. So if you ever want to personally message me on again, LooperTalk1927, please feel free to send me a DM and I will be more than happy to get back to you as soon as I can. And oh yeah, to request me. Um, so the phone number is on Bandon Dunes' website. I don't I don't know if I should say that out loud. Hopefully, they don't get a bunch of phone calls.

Joe 1:45:06

But they're gonna get flooded.

SPEAKER_01 1:45:09

Yeah, so I I don't I I don't want to the the phone number is on the website. If you do want to request me, you can also personally DM me through Instagram and we can negotiate or not negotiate, we can just talk about some stuff or do whatever. Um, I am requested usually about two to three months out. So now during the winter, I'm I'm not nearly as much, but this time of year, I very rarely have a week off. So uh if you do want to request me, please give it six months in advance. That way I can at least know for a fact that I'm on your bag. I a lot of it is after COVID, our demand just went out the roof.

Matt 1:45:48

Crazy.

SPEAKER_01 1:45:48

So I have it's not that they're personally requesting me. I'm on referrals through other people. So don't think I'm just getting blown up uh with a bunch of people. It's mostly other guys that want need people to work, or it is a personal request, or Caddyshack has already booked me two weeks out. So yeah, if you can give it a good we'll say maybe two to three months. How about that? That sounds a little bit more reasonable. Um, yeah, I can warn you.

Joe 1:46:15

Shout out to Hirsch, too. Shout out to Hirsch World also alleged.

SPEAKER_01 1:46:18

Oh, okay.

Joe 1:46:19

Yeah, Hirsch is there.

SPEAKER_01 1:46:21

Yeah, are you talking about Hirschberger?

Matt 1:46:23

Yeah, he caddied for us at the solstice.

SPEAKER_01 1:46:26

Dude, his dad is a major league baseball player, man. He he's um he's a coach, he's the coach for the uh band and baseball team. Yeah, he's an awesome guy. Awesome guy. Love that guy. Yeah, jobs with him in the last uh year or so. So we've we've kind of reconnected a little bit. He's a great dude. So um, but yeah, if you ever want to request me, just send me a personal DM through Instagram and I will hopefully get back to you as soon as I can. Um yeah, Looper Talk 1927. So that's YouTube and Instagram.

Matt 1:46:58

Awesome. And I'll I'll put all that in the show notes so you guys can just click and go right there. I was just I was just gonna say when we end the show, don't disconnect. That's all. Okay, okay. Everything's gonna uh upload. So uh Joe, take it away.

Joe 1:47:15

Yeah, thank you so much for tuning in to this week's episode of the Chasing Podcast. Episode 384, which is absolutely insane. As always, banger episode, shout out Looper Talk. That's the homie Tim. If you're going to Bandon, make sure you're requesting. And if you've never been to Bandon, get out there, our favorite place in the world, at least mine. And uh yeah, go back and listen to this episode like four or five times because there's so many nuggets in there. Thank you guys for tuning in. Uh, we're gonna have to do a number two, or maybe we just show up on loop or talk one day. But until then, make sure you get out there, go play some golf, shout out the game of golf. It's the best. Get out there, chasing daylight. Till next time, we will catch you later.