E389: MUNICIPAL Co-Founder Harry Arnett

Welcome back to another episode of The Chasing Daylight Podcast!

Today, Matt sits down for an exciting interview with Harry Arnett, the founder of the rapidly growing lifestyle and apparel brand, Municipal. After a legendary career navigating the golf equipment space, Harry took a leap of faith to build a brand meant for the modern, active lifestyle. 

Harry details his fascinating journey, from starting out in sports radio while making $8 an hour to leading marketing powerhouses at TaylorMade and Callaway. We dive deep into the philosophy of Municipal's "sport utility aesthetic," what it’s like co-founding a company with Mark Wahlberg, and why golfers need gear that performs just as well on a hike or in the gym as it does on the course. 

In this episode, we cover:
- Harry’s early career transition from sports radio to becoming a leading marketing mind at TaylorMade and Callaway. 
- The exact moment Harry decided to leave his comfortable position in golf to bet on himself and launch Municipal in 2019. 
- How Municipal was built to support a modern, multi-hyphenate life rather than just fitting the traditional "golf aesthetic". 
- The success of Municipal athletes on tour, including Wyndham Clark's back-to-back U.S. Open victories while wearing the gear. 
- Harry's thoughts on the current landscape of golf content creators and the importance of unique storytelling. 
- Behind-the-scenes insights into working alongside co-founders Mark Wahlberg and Stephen Levinson.

Make sure you are following the show on Apple Podcasts
https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-chasing-daylight-podcast/id1464725572

Special thanks to our show sponsor:
Garsen Grips - https://garsengolf.com
And also our show supporters:
Gretsch Golf Academy - https://gretschgolf.com/
Las Vegas Golf Superstore - https://www.worldwidegolfshops.com/
Rohrs Golf Co - https://rohrsgolf.com/

CDP Socials:
https://www.instagram.com/chasingdaylightpodcast/
https://x.com/CDPGolfShow
https://www.facebook.com/chasingdaylightpodcast
https://www.tiktok.com/@chasingdaylightpodcast

Joe's HittinGreens Channel on Whatnot:
https://www.whatnot.com/s/Cdk2Zpku

Jeremy's New Golf Brand:
https://www.damngoodputter.com/

Follow the Chasing Daylight Crew:
Mathew Wangrycht: https://www.instagram.com/1440golf/
Joe Keith: https://www.instagram.com/hittingreens/
Jeremy Martin: https://www.instagram.com/damngoodputter
Dan Hodges: https://www.instagram.com/bogey_free_62/

Transcript

Introduction & Welcoming Harry Arnett

Matt 0:02

Hey everybody, welcome back to another episode of the Chasing Daylight Podcast. Today I am very excited to have this interview, Mr. Harry Arnett, founder of Municipal. As everybody knows, I am a very much of a municipal fanboy. Uh Harry, thank you so much for taking time. I'm sure you're a crazy busy man with how municipal is blowing up. So thank you so much for coming on the show. How are you doing today?

SPEAKER_00 0:26

Great. Thanks for having me. And uh appreciate you thinking of us and thinking of me, and thanks for your support. I was wondering why our sales had spiked so uh dramatically this morning, and now I know because you're wearing the bright magenta um uh 4 a.m. club, the original 4am club team.

Matt 0:43

Yeah, this this I I have so many municipal shirts. It's it's funny. I get a lot of crap from the guys as being the perfect people that give me the crap, but I do have a lot of municipal myself. Yes. Um so let's let's first start out. We'll get we'll get into how municipal came to be, but I want to tell everybody a little bit about you, or let you explain a little bit about you, because you've been in the golf space for quite a while.

Harry's Background: From Sports Radio to TaylorMade & Callaway

SPEAKER_02 1:05

Yeah.

Matt 1:05

Uh, and you have a pretty good history. So uh let everybody know who you are and and what your your journey in the golf space was.

SPEAKER_00 1:14

Yeah. Um mine uh started kind of later, I would say. You know, I when I grew up, um I'm a child of the 80s, golf was really wasn't cool unless you were sort of born in it. And you know, country club kids, and um, that's kind of what the image of golf was. And I grew up in Atlanta. So grew up around around the game, sort of, but never really played it. Uh, although my branch of the Arnett family weren't, we were not golfers, but all throughout my well, my mom's side were and my dad's side, my dad's uh father, my grandfather was an avid golfer, but we didn't grow up playing. We grew up doing other shit, you know. Um I was a soccer player, played soccer in college, played soccer post-college. But my first job out of college, my first real job, I should say, was working in sports radio. And uh one of my colleagues, one of my friends who worked with me on the morning show was a college golfer and introduced me, sort of just sitting in the little control room talking about golf. And at that time, um, I had a pretty big block of uh of time in my day where I could either go home and sleep before I had to be at games at night, or I could do something active. And golf was perfect for that. So I sort of uh was self-taught going to local munis around Atlanta, um, going into a sporting goods store and trying to assemble my first set of golf clubs, uh, beg borrowing and stealing, because I was making $8 an hour. So golf was a little bit expensive for me. And that's how I kind of found my way, at least as a player, and and much like uh every avid golfer, it hit me, it hit me pretty hard in terms of the passion for it. And um along the way, uh just had various uh jobs in other industries, primarily in media. Went to graduate business school, got out, got into the sporting goods industry, and always had in the back of my mind that I would love to work at a golf company, but had no idea how to even find my way into the game. I mean, it was sort of like my journey into golf um took a lot of uh a lot of uh fence hopping as it was. And so uh I ended up by luck getting a job as in in the marketing group at uh at Tailormade Golf in back in the aughts and moved my wife and my one-year-old at the time to Carlsbad, where I live today, never having visited here other than my job interview. My wife came here never having come to San Diego. And um the rest is sort of history. I went from Tailormade, and this is back in the the kind of mid-late um 2006, 2007. And if you remember for the club junkies out there and the the historians of golf equipment, that was really the first part of the heyday of when TailorMade was dominating the equipment world. And I say dominating, both in terms of sales, but really capturing the mind share of consumers and entering this era that we kind of find ourselves in now, too, where people are um experiencing a much different uh way that golf companies are are uh are marketing themselves, are presenting themselves, and are becoming more lifestyle brands than they really are in terms of technology and equipment. And Tailormade was really the first brand that picked up where Callaway had left off in the in the 90s and early 2000s to do that. So I was right in the middle of that. Um great learning experience. I was there about five and a half years in Tailormade years during that time. That's about 30 years of experience. It was dynamic. I think I had 12 or 13 different job responsibilities in five and a half years. So we were shuffling, um, shuffling the deck, constantly trying to stay on the on the front end of what was relevant and cool. And um ended up leaving TaylorMade to go become the the chief marketing officer at Calway and was there for seven years and sort of saw uh Calway's re-emergence as the number one golf brand and totally different, um, totally different experience there, but a great one. And uh seven years in, I sort of had the the the wanderlust, I I would say, where I really felt like there was a different version of me personally that still needed to be explored. And there was uh a different um, there was a there was more potential in with respect to my own personal growth that was was was really yelling pretty loudly in my head.

The Genesis of Municipal & Betting on Himself

SPEAKER_00 6:32

And um eventually I sort of was like, well, I can sit here and like think about this or I can I can go for it. And uh I had met Mark Wahlberg maybe 15 years prior, back when I was at TailorMade, and we had been talking about doing a brand together for forever. And then finally, Mark in classic Mark term said the same thing, is like, we ready to bet on ourselves and do this, or are we just gonna sit here and talk about this forever? So I left the uh the comfort of a job I loved and the the um the again the the comfort of that to to start municipal in in 2019 and and here we are. And there's um lot of a lot of bumps in the road to from 2019 to get to here from COVID right when we launched to before we launched, even to tariffs, to all kinds of things that have been uh roadblocks for us to get to where we are today.

Matt 7:29

What was that conversation like with your wife, if you don't mind me asking? Hey, I've I've got this really cushion, great job with one of the powerhouses at golf. My wife's name.

SPEAKER_00 7:41

How do you feel, Kim, about going for 15 or 20% of our income for the next uh half a dozen years? You feeling good about that? You know, the but the biggest, the biggest and most important decision we can make is who we choose to partner up with in our lives. And and so, you know, fortunately my wife knows me well enough that uh and she's pretty analytical too. Uh I I should say really analytical to understand, like, hey, listen, you know, I tend to idealize things and I tend to, which is one of my strengths, frankly. Um, and she was like, look, if the what's the worst that can happen? The worst thing can happen is you you you you do this, it doesn't work out, it's not successful, at least commercially, but you're gonna learn a lot in this process. And um, the one thing we we both knew about me is uh at the end of the day when I'm old and broken down and unable to do you know to work anymore, is the one thing I would regret is I didn't go for it. And I think that we felt like even through COVID, when it was unclear whether we we would emerge, like, you know, again, at the at the end of the day when the chips were down, um, you know, we went for it. And uh, and that that really is something I've I've thought about quite a bit, even in, you know, now we're we're we don't quite have the the the same type of headwinds we've had getting started. But um I think that being able to bet on yourself, being able to uh find the resourcefulness that it takes to to certainly start something, but then also to to grow our our skills that you can't you know you can't get anywhere else.

Matt 9:32

Such a good story. I love it. What so what made you how how did the municipal name came to be and and how did the partnership with Mark I know you said you had a conversation and you just revamped it a few years later, but uh what was it like, you know, coming together and saying, hey, yeah, we're gonna do this.

SPEAKER_00 9:52

Well, our third our third co-founder is is a guy named Stephen Levinson, who's been Mark's partner in entertainment for 30 plus years. He started out as Mark's manager and now they're you know they built entertainment businesses together. Um and they were thinking going way back, uh Mark is an um Mark is an avid golfer, he plays more golf than really any non-tour professional that I know. Um he's a he's a sicko in the best way possible. He's just like us. And he was really wanting to do uh uh something in golf specifically. And I was in golf, obviously. And I, as I said before, I'm an idealist, and I I I think the one thing that I've has really fueled my my um my life and and certainly my professional career is is to try to think more broadly about opportunity and not so narrowly about opportunity. And when he and and Lev were talking about this concept of municipal, they were thinking of it as a golf brand and they were thinking of it as a new, and this is going back 10 years ago, so 20, you know, 2016, 2017, they were thinking really uh along the the the the future, like where golf was headed, and um what having been in golf, uh no disrespect to golf, I was of the opinion that there was a bigger opportunity with what they were thinking about municipal that could be great for golf, but would have a broader appeal than just for golfers. And I was looking at it relatively inside out, Matt, of this is the type of idea and the type of brand that needs to exist that fits in with this uh this the modern life of the hyperactive, multi-hyphenate uh consumer, men and women, by the way, where health and wellness and activity and motion cut across all of the scenes and requirements of a multidimensional life in pursuit of living um living a much more extraordinary life. And this this thematically, I I was seeing was happening in every industry. And so my my instinct was unfortunately for golf, golf is always uh slower to um to uh get on the cultural lead lap, if you will. And you know, golf golf forever has thought that it was insulated from what was happening broadly in culture, but really it's not insulated, it's just slower. And uh, and so my Callaway experience, our entire marketing philosophy, branding philosophy, was much more about the modern connectivity and the pathways that people wanted to take into the game that were relying on sort of the the cultural modernity that was happening among the interconnectivity of consumers. Um, and we called that the sphere of influence. And so um rather than the pyramid of influence. Now, this is a little wonky, but um I think what's fascinating now is our premise at Callaway, and I'll get back to the municipal part in a second. Our premise of Callaway when I got there in 2012, which was pretty avant-garde, I think, at that time, is exactly what's played out uh now. Probably faster than we even imagined, because we said then that people's pathways and their influence in the game, their access to the game is not top-down and it's not linear. That's a model. That's certainly a model that's worked, but it's not a model that really is working in any other consumer category. That really the other what is happening is there's this interconnectivity of consumers that are discovering their own individualized pathways into the game that's reliant a lot on digital storytelling and and obviously social media, and it's not necessarily reliant on the institutional or legacy stakeholders that have created this linear model, which is called the pyramid of influence. And in in 2012, 2012-2013, we said there's gonna be a time in the not so distant future where there are gonna be way more people absorbing uh uh absorbing their golf uh via YouTube or social media than there are in the way that the tour is constructing their media properties. And I thought personally, like that's probably 10 years away, and it kind of happened short sooner than that. Anyway, back to municipal. So within municipal, what we were started to talk about is this idea that I'm describing, and I know this is wonky, but this this idea that people are living these uh interconnected, um, integrated lives or wanting to is informing a lot of industry from real estate to travel to uh a variety of consumer, but it really hasn't happened in the way that's more direct in the stuff we were we are caring about, apparel, footwear, accessories. And um and so as we start talking about it, that's where like whoever builds that brand for that intersection, for that moment, um, because all of these categories from lifestyle to luxury to athletic, we're all trying to converge into that space. But whoever really built it for that modern consumer is is uh is gonna build the next big, important, iconic, um, resonant global brand. And that uh that sort of statement and uh and uh challenge really appealed to me. And I think for Mark and Lev, who they don't like to do anything on a small level. If they're gonna get involved in something, they want to have impact. Um that was really where we stacked hands and we said, let's let's do this, let's go for it.

Redefining Lifestyle Apparel & The "Sport Utility Aesthetic"

Matt 16:48

Nice. You know what what I what I like about it is you you look at the golf brands, the major golf brands, Callaway, Tailormade, Ping, all those. They really don't have a lifestyle element to them.

unknown 17:03

Yeah.

Matt 17:03

You know, you can't you don't go to the gym wearing a Callaway shirt. There's just, you know, it's just not there. They they have some, but it's not it's not there. Um but with with municipal, it's it covers a really broad spectrum.

SPEAKER_00 17:19

Yeah, and and it's got the right. Well, I think you're right. I think that the industry has uses the word lifestyle because they they don't they don't have a broad enough vocabulary to really think about what it is when golfers are saying they want lifestyle. Really what they're saying is they want stuff that they can wear everywhere. And the the way that golf has worked historically is it's if you think about it as like a conveyor belt, and you have the traditional, uh, you have the traditional part of the industry in apparel and footwear at least, that are uh a part of the the ecosystem. And anybody that does something different, generally that's successful, um, has a moment where they're the they're the new kid on the block. And they generally are borrowing from other industries, other categories, and ultimately that gets absorbed into the main and it becomes part of the establishment. And then there's a new kid on the block. And what's happening is that wheel's turning so fast. Uh, and what I think our opportunity, or at least what we saw, is we didn't want to be on that wheel. So typically, and you kind of look at what's happening in golf now, there's a lot of um, there's a lot of uh modern nostalgia happening, there's a lot of reclaiming of 90s looks, you see pleats coming back, and that's more of a style thing than it is a philosophy. And so municipal was really built on a philosophy, and we felt like if we could do our own thing, and this is kind of getting back to what I was describing with um not really made specifically for golf, but perfect for golf, is we felt like if we could do our own thing, we would get off that wheel and we would have more of a sustainability, I think, to our brand, even as it exists in golf, which, as we've said, is kind of moves from one hot thing to the next and is following, you know, more. Uh, and this is maybe flies in conflict to what I said earlier, but is really more what's happening in the fashion world where you might have a hot brand for a year or two, and then there's something else that comes on, and then a million uh a million other um facsimiles thereof that that pop up that look just like that brand. And I kind of see that stuff in golf too, and and we try, or at least I try in leading this is to that we're not one of the same, is to do our own thing and and not try to be some version of something else. And uh those are always the brands I like. You know, it's it's one of the it's one of the reasons for years uh I really respected the ping brand in equipment, is because they look like ping. They don't try to look like other brands, they're not copycats. They you you they have a very distinct visual language that's their own. Um, you know, and golf golf is really a copycat industry. If someone has six months, you see everybody. I saw, you know, I you look at like what's going on with lab putters now. Now everybody has a player list on lab putters. You look at uh uh you look at uh some of the the jailbird stuff from from Odyssey that was cool, and now everybody has something that looks like that. So golf golf has always been that way. Um there's a competitive dynamic that tries to block people's growth, obviously, from the big-scaled companies. But I always respected the brands that did their own thing and tried to create their own connecting, you know, connection with their existing customers. And and so for municipal, like that's that's one of our guiding principles, at least, is is trying to stay true to what the brand proposition is and not try to um not try to be distracted, I guess, by what might be happening commercially that doesn't have a a long-term component to it. And you know, for us, so if you look at like, okay, what does that mean? You know, I'm sure people are listening are like, what the F is Harry even talking about? You know, what does that mean? Well, you the the performance characteristics of our products have to live up to a standard where it can do a variety of things to facilitate the ability to, you know, let's take, let's take uh, let's take uh, you know, my life, for example. And I'm a little out of our demo, I'm an old guy, but I'm on any given day, I'm I'm coming into the office. I work in a creative office, so I don't have to be terribly buttoned up. I do, I take at least two of my meetings a day. I spend walking on the meeting. So I'm walking two hours during the day on a meeting. So I have to be mobile. I have to be active. So it has to perform. I also need to have it needs to satisfy a style standard that I have that like I don't want to look like everybody else, but I don't want to, I don't want to stand out to be to stand out. And and then also with active being such a major component of what municipal is all about and health and wellness, that it really needs to perform across all of the activities that are a part of my life, from gym to hiking to golf. You know, I'm I'm playing two times a week, not hitting balls much anymore. Body can't do it, but I'm playing, and I have to have a brand that can do all of those things.

Designing Performance Clothes for the Gym, the Course, and Daily Life

Matt 22:50

Yeah, and that's that's another aspect of it too, is it it's not you do have a golf you know section, I guess you could say.

SPEAKER_00 22:59

Well, I mean, Windham Clark's won the US Open twice with municipal. Yes, he's not gonna wear shit that doesn't help him do that. That's the point. Like we it has to work. It has to work. It's not the style for style sake. And that's that's one of the guiding principles for us is at the at at the center of it is the consumer that has to be able to do the things at a high level that he or she demands.

Matt 23:24

Yeah, and but like I was gonna say, you know, it's not just golf, right? It's it's like you said, it's gym, it's hiking. It it you can go pickleball, you can you can get stuff to to wear out for you know just a casual evening with the friends or your a date or whatever. It's it's not uh just solely focused on one aspect. You can uh you know cross support a lot of it.

SPEAKER_00 23:51

Well, you just nailed it, Matt, that that's our perspective on what you were describing as lifestyle. And lifestyle isn't just isn't just the style part, it is it works for everything that you're doing. And I think that's um that's really you know why we created this, because we were we were seeing and we were living these lives that really no brand was adequately uh uh articulating and adequately equipping us for. And you know, I was coming out of the golf industry, golf was as lame as it gets, that I couldn't wear golf the golf stuff in the gym. I certainly couldn't wear it hiking. I shouldn't could certainly couldn't wear it really in a uh uh anywhere else than people would look at me and say, there's a golfer. And you know, golf golf style inherently is pretty specific. And so um that was, you know, the style part of what we call sport utility, the sport utility aesthetic is is really you know the the through line that cuts through everything that we do. And um, and you know, it's constantly, constantly evolving, and we're constantly innovating to bring the type of fabrications and the style and the composition. And I think the thing that we also take really seriously is we want to build product better than anybody has, and we don't want somebody to spend uh, you know, uh uh pay a premium, which when we're a premium brand, and then I was gonna say two years later, sometimes you buy stuff and and it's like two weeks later, you're like, I can't believe I bought that. But we want to be the type of brand that's that people buy and it's in there in there, they're wearing it for years and years and years.

Matt 25:39

I I picked up one of the uh what is it, the game day hoodie. Yeah. I put that thing on, and I'm like, I don't even want to wear anything underneath it.

SPEAKER_00 25:49

It's so damn comfortable, and it is so warm, and it's I mean, the merch is well think about so think about too, like where you live, and and you're in Vegas, and uh there's a there's a reason that Vegas is growing like it's growing. It's because there's an opportunity, forget the gaming part of it for a second, but if you just think of gaming as entertainment, you have this wonderful uh combination of entertainment, outdoor lifestyle, indoor lifestyle, active lifestyle, plus the the the nightlife, of course, and I'm not even talking about shows and everything, I'm talking about restaurants and culture that are all coming there now professional sports. That's the integration that consumers are wanting. It's the it's the aspect that's driving, as I said, all of these industries. And the thing that um we talk about in golf of what's kind of what's what's really expanding golf is that integration. And it is about providing multiple pathways into the game in a much broader way than have ever existed before. And sometimes people get, I think, uh maybe a little uh a little uh territorial about what that might mean, of like, oh, well, golf is, you know, golf is this, and I see on the internet, just like everybody else, the whole shrink the game thing. And uh I kind of laugh at that because um what people are really wanting, and I think this is a great thing for golf specifically, is they're really wanting to be able to define their own path and their own experience into the game in a much more integrated way. And the the companies, the brands, the experiential components that are able to do that uh in a in a seamless, exciting way are the are the ones that ultimately are are creating the the growth.

Matt 27:53

We here on the show are very pro-shrink the game, but we don't like we don't like saying that because it sounds derogatory. Uh we we like uh educate the golfer is is a big thing because I think a lot of people want to shrink the game because of the COVID explosion. You have so many people that are new to the game, but I think if those golfers were educated, uh it would be a lot more user-friendly out there. But then another thing we talk about is is find the game. The the game finds you uh when it's supposed to. And you know, uh golf is an amazing sport, and I I've said for years, it it brings people together unlike any other sport. Uh my whole network of friends are people that I've met through the game. Um, you know, I still have my high school friends from you know 40 years ago, but you know, my my core group of friends right now, we're all golfers. And um the game finds you at the right time. You know, and and when you allow the game to find you is when you really start having a respect for it.

SPEAKER_00 28:59

Well, you said the word I was what I was gonna say is respect. And I think within the municipal context too, is I think we're not we're not in any way, shape, or form. I do not like the brands, at least in apparel, that are have a cynical view of what golf is and try to dunk on the game. Like that that just offends my sensibility. So, you know, we we we have a uh a respectful uh uh view, I guess, on the game too. And and you know, my favorite, uh, my my team here always laughs at me for this because they're like, you're such a boomer. My favorite way of playing golf is uh a beautiful, not very densely uh populated um golf club that is probably pretty old and playing with a caddy. That's my favorite golf. Yeah, I love walking. I walk 99% of my my rounds of golf. I carry my bag 99% of the time. That's my that's my that's my happy zone in golf. And um, you know, and to do that, I think is is is really the my favorite part of golf. So um, and my team thinks that I'm a million years old for that.

Matt 30:18

But um we can't do that here. It's yeah, they're in Vegas. And the courses are not designed for walking because you know it's a lot of desert target and there's journeys between holes. Um, it's not like you know, the the courses back east where the T-box is right next to the green.

SPEAKER_00 30:36

San Diego on uh funnily enough is the same, although the one place where I play is um is uh one of the few that you can walk, and it's one of the reasons I'm a member there, is I I love to walk.

Matt 30:47

What do you can you do you mind saying what course you're playing?

SPEAKER_00 30:50

And it's been in the news lately. I am a member of the Farms Golf Club.

Matt 30:53

Oh, you probably has Phil asked you to hold his phone for you?

SPEAKER_00 31:00

All that was sort of news to me. Yeah, like I was probably looking at it the same way everybody else was. Like, holy cow, this is crazy.

Matt 31:10

Uh, do you know is it Kyle Mendoza?

SPEAKER_00 31:13

Yeah, he's our pro there.

Matt 31:14

Yeah. Um Dan, who's on the podcast with us? That's one of his good buddies.

SPEAKER_00 31:19

Oh, good. Yeah. Yeah. Kyle's Kyle's one of the best players in Southern California.

Matt 31:24

So he's a stick.

SPEAKER_00 31:25

Yeah, he is. Yeah, he is.

Matt 31:28

All

Municipal on Tour: Wyndham Clark & the ATG Outdoor-Inspired Shoe

Matt 31:29

right. So, what is what is municipal's focus on? This is a golf podcast, so we got to talk about golf, of course. Yeah, uh, what's municipal's focus on golf going forward? I know Wyndham Clark, big second U.S. Open win, wearing the gear. Um, but is there is there other tour players that are out there that are wearing it? That's it.

SPEAKER_00 31:48

Yeah, we've got we've got three guys on tour. Um, we've got Kirk Kideyama, Patrick Rogers, and and Wendham, and you know, three different cats, and that's part of the part of the uh cool part about our brand. So you got three different totally different guys that kind of have different styles, different looks, different requirements. Um and I think of those three, we've got at one point we had three in the top 50, which was cool. And so, you know, anymore, the the the how many you have isn't really as important as who they are and how you activate them. So, you know, our opportunity is really to tell more people about that and to let people in on the psychology rather than just seeing them on tour, because um people aren't watching as much tour golf anymore, at least in the in the traditional sense. So the um that part is exciting to us, and I think that we are what we're doing from a product perspective, and we have uh a shoe called ATG, which is was our first real execution with this integrated philosophy. Um, because it it really has more inspiration and technology cues coming from outdoor sport and outdoor performance than it does golf. So it doesn't really look like a golf shoe necessarily, it looks like a uh a trail runner, an outdoor, an outdoor shoe. And that's the point. It's it's meant to be the type of shoe that you could wear um doing those kinds of pursuits or even just wearing it around in a way that looks very outdoor and sport utility-like and not so golfish. And um, and so that philosophy of bringing outdoor performance and outdoor performance style and versatility to golf is one of the things we're really excited about, exploring that in a more uh broader way. So we have uh we have a whole collection coming in the spring that's that is the apparel component of ATG. And uh it's it's uh I'm really excited about it. As a matter of fact, I'm wearing a don't tell Mark because he'll want the shirt, but I'm wearing a first prototype of a of a long sleeve tee that goes with that that collection. And we've shown it to the golf trade um already, and people are going crazy for it because it makes perfect sense. And if you think about the integrated philosophy and and what people are doing, that golf is a major component of people's um of people's uh lives, but anymore for for especially for the younger folk, it is just an element of it. It's not everything. And so that's um that's really where our place is in the game. So, you know, a shirt like I have on now, like you can do anything in this shirt, you can work out in it, you can, it's 85 degrees here in San Diego this morning. So I'm not going outside in this, but um, you can do anything in it, it performs, it looks great. I'm in the create, I'm in an office now, creative office wearing it. So that's uh that's a place we really see the game. And then back to your question is is showing um being more uh, I guess, um more uh more prominent in how we we tell these stories to the golfers, because I still think we have obviously a long way to go for people to discover our brand. But when people discover it and you said it, we have the highest loyalty, customer loyalty I've ever seen in a consumer brand, and we have the lowest product return rates I've ever seen. So people that come into our brand, whether it's they buy a pair of shoes or they buy a t-shirt, they generally stay with us and and buy more because they know once immediately our product is different. It really is.

Matt 35:51

I I can attest, I've never returned one thing, and I'm frequently the website a lot.

SPEAKER_00 35:58

Well, we appreciate that.

Matt 36:00

So the I got those the ATG shoes and they're like my fitting shoe. I I love wearing them during fittings because we're on our feet, you know, for five to six hours at a time. They're crazy comfortable. You can golf in them 100%, um, but they're they're so damn comfortable. But when I was blown away with them the most is uh last year my wife and I went to Hawaii and we went on a hiking trail up to a waterfall. We were on a Wahoo, and the trail was damp and wet, like 70% of it. And going up was no issues, and I I hadn't had the knee surgery yet. I had the knee pain, but I was like, man, going down may be a little sketchy in these. Not at all. It was rock solid. I just blew me away.

SPEAKER_00 36:45

I'm like, okay, there's more to this shoe than just I love hearing that because I think that's sort of the point, or at least it's uh it's a good um representation of our of our entire philosophy because obviously that's a shoe that was really thought with a golfer in mind first, but you wouldn't I'm guessing you wouldn't wear a pair of golf shoes on that hike. So, you know, the in I'm the same. I there's a there's a trail near my house that I do maybe twice a week, and it's a six-mile, six-mile trail, and I'll wear my ATGs on that trail. And I also, as I said, I I walk 99% of my rounds of golf. That's what I'm playing golf in. And um, and so that's we we really believe, like when I we were talking about the lifestyle, this integrated approach, that the the these types of executions from from us at least are what we think is should be and will be exciting for golfers too, because it's it's active, it's performance oriented, there's obviously a unique, tasteful um style that we have with municipal, and it also cut across all of these activities that are part of a golfer's life, um, including golf.

Matt 37:57

Yeah, it's pretty awesome, man. Pretty awesome. One one uh another trend that's starting to happen here is the super lightweight hoodies. Yeah. That for sun protection. Yeah. I wear a sleeve. I I hate sunscreen. You could probably tell.

SPEAKER_00 38:15

I I said Matt, you're a little bit red today, so you might want to.

Matt 38:19

Well, I played afternoon afternoon round yesterday in the cloud coverage, so I got torched. Um I hate I hate sunscreen. I just hate the way it feels. I hate the way the the oils and just ugh, yeah. When you get the the stuff without the zinc and it's just paste, you're just putting paste on yourself.

SPEAKER_02 38:35

Yeah.

Matt 38:35

Um, so I I wear sleeves and I'll wear uh uh you know a sun hat. Um but the super lightweight hoodies are are really you're starting to see more and more guys out here wearing stuff like that because it's I mean it's hot. It's 105 out. You know, if you're wearing short sleeves or you're wearing a long sleeve, it it's not gonna be any different. But if you have that breathable sunscreen material with with the hoodie, it it it's starting to take off. And you would that's the last place you would think you would see that, you know, is is in Vegas.

SPEAKER_00 39:08

I'm I'm lucky because uh I work here, but I have specially made long sleeve polos that you know no one's really buying those yet, so we're not really coming to market with that, but that's what I wear for that same reason because I don't like I don't like having to reapply sunscreen throughout. And our the fabric we have is so breathable and lightweight and it's UV protected that it I don't feel I feel nice and cool now I'm in San Diego, it's not 105, but I'm still walking. Um you know, so I'm with you on that. So um is there anything more golf specific that that's coming, or is it just a lot of cool layering, uh, just in terms of the product, we have our our uh update to the ATG shoe that we're talking about coming out next year, and then um pretty pretty significant push, I'd say, on the content side, um with some cool things that we have in mind coming that I'll just tease here that uh we think is cool. And you know, we had a we one of our our I think facets of our company that's that's different is we've got Mark and Lev with their whole content enterprise that will be able, I think, to help us tell the municipal story in a in a differentiated way and in a cool way. So we're uh we're really excited about where where we're going, especially in golf. And I think from a golfer myself, the the thing I'm I'm really thrilled about, and I just mentioned my journey through golf is like it's nice that golf is seen as cool again from non-golfers. So that's I think that part is is really exciting for all of us that have been in this for a while. And I think that it's gonna open up a lot of opportunities for people to accept, you know, new, new different um new perspectives and new taste, I guess, in terms of apparel and footwear and accessories. So we're we're really excited about that development.

The State of Golf Influencers & YouTube Storytelling

Matt 41:15

So with the influencer content creator chaos that's going on, how happy are you that you don't have to deal with that with Callaway right now? It's a completely different world right now.

SPEAKER_00 41:29

Yeah. This is the part where I'm I'm definitely old, and I know a lot of them too. So I'm I gotta say, like I'm thrilled for the creators that they've been able to create you know businesses for themselves and and and and create um you know a life. I also as an entrepreneur myself, like I I I root for all entrepreneurs, no matter what, you know, no matter what they're doing, even if they're competing against us, I secretly I secretly pull for them. Um so I'm I'm I'm all for it. I I do think um I do think that it's and this is the boomer part of me. I do think that it's it's uh broad brushstrokes, like it's it's sort of coalescing around um uh similar storytelling techniques. And it it I think so I think there's an opportunity for for I think there's an opportunity for divergence again in the storytelling, and I'm excited for that. Um it it kind of it gets a little bit repetitive, and it's the the personality driven nature of it uh uh has a has a shelf life. So I'm I'm I'm I'm not so uh I'm not so let's say eager to see new personalities necessarily. I'm eager to see new storytelling techniques, even if it's from the existing personalities. But um, and it's funny, you know, like you see a lot of new brands that are entering the category using the existing uh influencer ecosystem. And I think that um that's not as appealing to me. So I'm I'm uh again, I I go back to the storytelling aspect of it. I think that's a big opportunity for all of us.

Matt 43:30

We have we have a friend, uh his name, his IG account is is Hesher Hack, uh William Hesher at out in uh Indiana area, uh Ohio, Ohio, I'm sorry. Um, but he is doing a hole in one challenge where he tries to hit a hole in one every single day. And when he started, he's he's not the greatest golfer, uh huh. Um but he's up to 391 days now where he has filmed himself hitting. A shot. He's he's a greenskeeper at a golf course. So he he films a shot every single day. Same hole. No, different holes. Different holes. It's one of the part threes on the course. So he he started slow. And you know, he you could tell he was getting a little frustrated with how it wasn't growing the way he wanted it to. And we told, hey, just be you. Just be you. And his evolution on this series has been amazing. And he's got some sponsors now. He's getting tons of likes, and he's about to hit 10,000 followers. And it's very inspirational because he is uh he's calling it go hard July. Do do things that are hard. You know, uh, don't give up, do things that are hard. And and his uh his thing this year is that the swing doesn't define me, my efforts do. And it's it's been an amazing journey watching him. And his golf is getting better now, which is great because I told him, I said, dude, when you're done with this, your short game is going to be legit. I love that. Yeah, yeah. And uh it's it's been a a lot of fun watching him. But it and I told we say, you know, it's he's telling a story, it's it's his journey. And everybody can anybody can go out there and film themselves hitting uh uh you know ace cam. But the fact that we've been doing it so diligently and so methodically and open about it, you know, he doesn't great shots are awesome, but bad shots are just as awesome because it's real and uh it's starting to resonate with a lot of people.

SPEAKER_00 45:35

I'll have to check it out. That sounds like exactly what I want to see.

Matt 45:39

It's and he somebody challenged him to learn golf left-handed, and so he's up to 18 days. He's doing that as well now. 18 days learning golf left-handed. Um, because a user challenged me too. So it and it's I mean, it's brutal. It's brutal watching him, but he's doing it, you know, and he's doing it. Love it. But yeah, that's I love that storytelling aspect of that as well. You know, it's it's yeah, it's and that's we on last night's show, we were talking about the the YGT episode and some of the things that we liked about it, some of the things we didn't like about it. And I I I really think we really think, and also on the PGA tour, there's so many aspects of the golf courses themselves that the tour and these YouTube golfers really don't capitalize on. There's so many good stories. Like Purcell Farms, where they played that at, has such an amazing story about the course and the history and what happened there. And and they just left all that out. And I think that's one of the great things about golf is every golf course is different, and there's a story at every golf course. And if you find that story, it's such good content, and just nobody's found that yet. I mean, Eric Andrews Lang does a really good job. He's a great storyteller. You know, there are people that do, but I would really love to see that aspect in the game out more. There you go.

What It's Actually Like Working with Mark Wahlberg

Matt 47:03

All right, last thing I'm gonna touch on. This guy right here.

SPEAKER_00 47:08

I know that guy. That's you. I know that guy.

Matt 47:10

That that's me. There's uh my my co-worker Julian there on the right, and this Mark Mark Wahlberg character.

SPEAKER_00 47:16

Oh, I see. Yeah, there's Mark right there in the middle.

Matt 47:20

What is it like working with him?

SPEAKER_00 47:24

He's always on, man. I mean, I think what you see is what you get, and trust me, I would never have left doing something I loved um in an industry I love to go work for a celebrity that was never in the in the cards. And but he's as authentic as it gets, he's as warm as it gets, and he's got uh he's sort of a tireless work ethic that everybody knows. And I've been watching him sometimes, and he is an idea factory, and I think one thing that would surprise everybody about him, I think, is how much he absorbs news, information, content. It's how I first met him is when I was at TailorMade, he knew our entire product line, he knew all the tour players, and this is like back before there was so much available information on social media and digitally. And uh, and then when I jumped over to Callaway, we would launch a product, we would do a piece of content, he was watching it. So he he's he really is like the ultimate connector. Um, and uh, and that's that part's been awesome because he's been a phenomenal partner, especially in when times have been challenging, which of course they are for any business. He's been an incredible partner and a great friend. And I think when you go and walk around with him, there there really aren't a lot of people like him that have an authentic connection to to people in the way that he does. And uh, and it's you know, it's been a it's been a really good partnership, I think.

Matt 49:05

Safe to save it was a good move for you.

SPEAKER_00 49:07

Yeah, for sure. Yeah, for sure. Yeah, we'll see. We haven't crossed it into the ocean yet, and every day brings new challenges, but personally, I get up every day and um you know, earlier and earlier, it seems, and excited about the challenge of building something really cool. And I think the the part that's the most gratifying, honestly, is is hearing from uh fans of municipal that get what we're doing and and really have have found that our products and our our our content have inspired them to try to pursue extraordinary lives. That's that's why we we wanted to build the brand. And and we're we hear from those people all the time.

Matt 49:55

I probably should have led with this question, but it just came to my head. Um or not question. Uh for those that aren't familiar with the municipal brand, pitch it. What's pitch municipal?

SPEAKER_00 50:08

Yeah,

The Municipal Pitch: Extraordinary Products for Extraordinary Lives

SPEAKER_00 50:09

well, you know, we make extraordinary products for people that want to live extraordinary lives. And starting with with activity, I think that uh I'm not gonna give an elevator pitch here or sales pitch, but I think that it should resonate with people that know this is true, that our lives are becoming more diversified and people aren't willing to compromise any aspect of their life and they want integration. They want they want their gym to work with their career, to work with their their activity pursuits, to work with uh to work with what they want to do um with their waking hours. And it's it's I think when we started this thing, we were we even were talking about health is the new luxury that um that you know that's the aspect of people's lives that they want to have to integrate in with everything, and and that's what we've built this company around. And uh, and so we're here we are, seven almost seven years later. And I think that um a lot of what we founded this company on is is what has been driving our growth. And we're we're really excited about it because we don't really think of it as a short-term thing. We really feel like this is a this is a an enduring aspect. I'm not even using the word trend, it's an enduring aspect of a component of people's lives. Obviously, as they get older, it becomes important, but we're we're hearing it um as being a a through point that's happening in in younger people too, and and that that's uh that's exciting.

Matt 51:46

It's very exciting. I'm excited for you guys. Um, like I said, fanboy here. Yeah, thank you. Um I'm I'm looking forward to to repping the municipal brand at the gym. Um, because the the the gym stuff is amazing. It's utterly amazing. So and I I got some some new shoes showing up today. Awesome for the gym.

SPEAKER_00 52:08

In that gym, Matt. Get in that gym. Get in that gym, go make it happen. You got the new knee, you got the new membership, like you gotta, you gotta, you gotta get we want to be here a long time, don't we?

Matt 52:18

As long as possible.

SPEAKER_00 52:19

I want you to have me back on in like 30 years, and we're both like just crushing it.

Matt 52:24

We we say you know, there's there's only so many more rounds in your life. That's right. There's only so many, so make the most of every opportunity.

SPEAKER_00 52:32

Exactly.

Matt 52:33

Harry, thank you so much for joining us. It was a pleasure having you on. I'm glad we're able to showcase showcase the brand and let everybody that may not be aware what you guys are up to. So uh again, thanks so much, and uh, we'll be in touch.