Celebrate Story! - An Interview with Author Meghan Fitzgerald, Butterfly Out: Discover How Your Life Stories Build Your True Identity

Listen in as Julie Interviews Meghan Fitzgerald about her new book Butterfly Out.  We live life forward and understand it backward and often find the things we go through to be random and Meghan Fitzgerald has written a beautiful book about her journey to finding her purpose.  In her book, she shares intimately about her journey from an eating disorder to true love and care for her body.  

And, once again what is most personal is actually quite universal, as Julie relates to much of her journey and discussion on shame, resentment, control, and dreaming.  Listen in while waiting for your copy of Butterfly Out!

Continue the conversation ... you can send us a message or link to our social media pages at The Celebrate Story! Podcast Webpage at https://www.celebratestorypod.com/.

Transcript

Julie: [00:00:00] Welcome back to Celebrate Story. I am so eager to introduce you to today's guest on Celebrate Story. I met this guest. Guest about, wow, 10, maybe almost 15 years ago, and it's so beautiful to know people, even from an acquaintance to a friendship over the long haul to see the twists and turns life takes.

So I'd like to read you her bio. She's just released a book. Her name is Megan Fetzgerald, and she's just released a book called Butterfly Out, and it's such a beautiful book. memoir type book of her showing you what she has picked up and put down in terms of things like shame and resentment and control and her birth stories.

And it's, she just really does invite you into the twist and turns of her life and how that shaped her life purpose. And it really, for me, as I read it, prompted. Further reflection on my own [00:01:00] journey with these things. So without further, let me go ahead and read you her bio. So you know a little bit more about her.

She lives in a lakeside suburb, just north of Charlotte in North Carolina here. She lives with her husband. And for children, she previously studied journalism at a major Christian university before embarking on a career as a mother, homeschooler, and a special needs parent. She has co written articles for Cabarrus Magazine and the Charlotte Athlete online publication and served as an ambassador for the United Mitochondrial Disease Foundation.

So please join me in this conversation. It. And if you're lucky, you'll get the chance to snag this book and read it because it really is talking about all the nitty gritty things that we wrestle with. And so few of us have the courage to step out and talk about them. So, listen in. 

And before we hop in, I just want to read one or two quotes from her book that really hit home for me, that really resonated. [00:02:00] Megan says, we aren't spending years of our lives picking things up and putting things down without purpose. If that were true, we might just beg to opt out considering the risk and struggle that often accompanies that lifestyle, but that's not the case.

It's not even close. Megan goes in her book and she looks deeper at these things that she picked up or put down through her struggles as someone who struggled with an eating disorder and then later found a love of her body, someone who loves to organize and solve and then later saw how that was a roadblock in her own marriage.

So she really does weave together the pieces of her life for a way for you to reflect more deeply on your life. So I hope you'll enjoy this as much as I did. Welcome, Megan.

So in your book you talk about the process of what it was like because you have two children that have special [00:03:00] needs and you talk a lot about that journey and I think it would be such a tremendous courage. encouragement to mothers and fathers that are walking that journey. And I think it's so fascinating to see how exercise became such a different point because it was so beautiful because here you are in the beginning of the book talking about like your relationship and having an eating disorder and it was about just this intense self hatred and then to like See, then, the beauty of, like, the long view of life, like, to see, like, as your spirituality changes and your, your journey of just tremendous stress and tremendous weight of not only having four children, but having the journey of all the appointments and all the medical needs of two medically more needed children.

And then you This whole journey of exercise, like tell the listeners a little bit more because I think it's so inspiring and so powerful. What would you like to share about that chapter?

Meghan: Right, so, you know, [00:04:00] when my, my son now, who is almost 12 when he was born and he was diagnosed with mitochondrial disease and he was so, so sick, like, I think before then I was, I would always exercise, you know but, When he started getting so sick, it was like all of my self care, I just, I just took all that and I put it into him.

So there was, you know, there was no self, you know, as a, as a mom, like how that, how that is, like you only have so much. And like, it was life or death for him. You know, me not exercising, probably not gonna kill me, but, but him, like he needed all, all of my energy. And so So, in that time, it was like, just, you know, my health, you know, kind of gave way a little bit, too, as I think is so common in the medically complicated children mom community.

I hear it all the time. So, what's amazing is that as he grew up, he's actually doing amazing now. So is my daughter. And so, I, [00:05:00] I wasn't, I wasn't anymore quite in this, like, you know, in the thick of it. And I was able to kind of go, okay, I have some time now. I can, I can think about, like, what is it, what is it that I need, you know.

So I started exercising again. So, I think, gosh, it's now. Been a couple years. I had this idea. I was listening to a podcast cause I also love podcasts. And this, this guy, he had done this thing where he decided he was going to do like a calendar run, but for, and he does it as like, he has like a whole group and so for every for every day of the month, they'll run a mile.

for whatever day it is. So if you're on day, you know, 22, you're going to run 22 miles that day. And I don't know, like, this is how my brain works. Like, I love things that are like a plan and a routine. And so I'm like, you know, I can't run at all. But I should, like, that's something I should be able to run.

But I, so I could do one minute, like, for every day of the month. I could, by the end of the month, if I could [00:06:00] run, you know, 30 or 31 minutes, like, that would be good, like, if I could, if I could do that. So, I decided, it was like in May, I was like, I'm gonna do this in May. And then I posted about it on Facebook.

And I think I posted about, I, I hate, I hate telling people about something I wanna do before I've actually done it. Unless I'm like pretty sure I'm going to succeed and I was not pretty sure I was going to succeed with this. Which is funny because some people will listen and be like, what is she, 30 minutes of running?

Like this is not, this is not a big thing. It's a runner. But like I was very, very out of shape and it was a big deal for me. So I posted about it on Facebook I think so that Because, again, I still, I'll still lean into that, like, people pleaser thing, I'm like, but, but I can use this to my advantage here, because if people think I'm gonna do it, Oh, I totally relate to that.

Then I will not, I'll be like, oh, gosh darn it. 

Julie: I Totally relate to that. I will use my people pleading to get me what I want. Yes. Like, oh, I, I care the I've [00:07:00] posted it.

Meghan: Yes. So then maybe through, I don't know how, but the, like, editor of Charlotte Athlete somehow saw this and was like, Oh, this is really cool.

We want to write about this in our online magazine. So I was like, okay, now I really like, I can't, I can't. And I've read that article. We have to link to that in the show notes. Sure. Yeah. And, and really like one of the chapters of the book is basically like the article is like a, is kind of like a summary of that.

And so the chapter of the book is kind of like an elongated version of the article, like going back into that. So, so in the book I about each day of my running and It really was such like, like a learning experience and like a very like spiritual process of like the things that, like who knew just like running a few miles a day, you know, or a few minutes would like, would like teach you so much.

But it did, it taught me so much about endurance and about you know, there's, there's one part of the chapter where I talk about like a little boy like walking by with his family. Oh, you're gonna, you've got [00:08:00] it in your, yeah. And he was like, he was like, look, there's a runner. And I literally had no, there was no one else in the path.

And I just was like, Oh, like, who is he talking about? Because like, I'm like, I'm not a runner, but your identity hadn't caught up to what you were doing. No, but I was running. So, so it was like, I am actually a runner 

Julie: I love that. It was such a cute story. And I also love, here's one of the highlights from your book.

That you put in quotes, listen to your body. It's good advice. I'm usually not listening to my body at all. In truth, I'm listening to my mind and it's not the same thing. I thought that was so good because here you talked in the beginning about you really struggled in this In this place of self hatred and here you were just like by faith taking one day at a time, can I add a little bit more and a little bit more and being this just like beautiful example, like living the example for your children.

I was, I loved that so 

Meghan: much. It's really funny and I didn't even really mean it to be but as you're kind of like hinting at like it's this huge juxtaposition because in the beginning of the book I'm [00:09:00] using, like I'm, I'm like starving myself as like a punishment to My body and, and to myself, but, but this running experiment, experiment that I did was Love for yourself.

Definitely, like, out of self care and self love. And in the past, too you know, I had always, like, if I would exercise, it was always, oh my gosh, like, I have gained weight, I need to exercise, like, as a kind of, like, a punishment, like, oh my gosh, like, I can't believe you ate all that, you know, and you need to exercise.

And I've gotten, like, and, like, I could not lose a pound. Or, like, keep up with any type of like, consistency with, like, exercise or, like or, like, good nutrition until I got rid of that and started viewing it as a, like, you know, and it's just kind of taken off from there. So now I've gone into, like, weightlifting and it's always, like, oh, I get to do this, like, for myself.

I deserve to do, I deserve to be strong, you know? I deserve to spend, weights are expensive, but, like, but, like. I [00:10:00] deserve to spend that to take care of myself if, you know, I need to buy some dumbbells. That's okay. You know, 

Julie: I love that so much. It's so beautiful because it's like, it's so relatable how many of it, because you specifically referenced, you know, within the special medical needs community, it's a very common for moms, mother's health.

But I also see that in just the broader community of mothers in general. Sure. Absolutely. Totally end up thinking we can just never put on the oxygen mask and it's. It's like we're almost educated beyond our level of ability to apply it, but I think it goes back to the very things you talk about in your book, like this, do we have this deep sense of love and is it done out of love?

So I just, I love that you began with that and I know there's lots of other beautiful stuff in between but I totally want to hit those. I also would love to jump to the last part of that chapter about how you talked about, cause I think it's such an un. Expected benefit, like I know that was surprising to me and my journey of exercise that like that running [00:11:00] jogging can be this meditative space like you, your, your quote was strangely when my body is moving fast, and my blood is pumping speedily through my veins, my mind stills.

While my body may be under stress, my mind finds peace and clarity. I just, I love that so much, and I'd love to invite you to share anything more you want to 

Meghan: say about it. It's so true. Like, I wish I could, like, run, like, write and run at the same time, because I think so much. Like clear, I'll have all these like really like insightful, like ideas when I'm exercising, especially like running or walking.

Because if I'm doing like, if I'm, if I'm strength training and usually I'll use like a video guide, then I'm, I'm kind of concentrated on that. But so more so with running or like a long distance walk, it's just like. It's just crazy, like my mind is so clear. It's like I'm just kind of like running out like the gunk or something like that.

Julie: Yes. And I've said 

before, I'm like, I have [00:12:00] to run off the crazy. 

Meghan: Yeah. It's like, so much.

Julie: I just love that. Okay, well I'd also like to shift to Do not want to not leave time for the chapter on dreaming. It was my absolute Favorite chapter because first of all I'm reading your book which was clearly at one point a dream and I'm looking at it in print Which is such while also homeschooling and juggling all the needs like it's such a beautiful accomplishment, and I just you I loved reading it and I love that you shared it and I think so many people are going to benefit from it.

And I would love to just dig into dreams because I think that's a really hard space for me. It's like I have like fits and starts of dreams and I just love how vulnerable you were in that chapter and I would love just to have you talk more about that. Like you've just talked about like picking back up this ability.

And I want to start with a quote and then I'd love to hear you talk about it. You said that, I've put my finger on that persistent feeling [00:13:00] that something's been missing, which has been nagging me for quite some time. That empty feeling was the absence of dreams and the simultaneous anticipation and dedication I feel when I have a goal.

I'd love to hear you talk more about that.

Meghan: Yeah. Oh my goodness. I think, so for me, there was. There was this big section of my life where I, I just didn't really have time for that because I was dealing with what needed to be done on a, on a day by day basis for Declan and his health and then a little bit for Delia.

She had health issues when she was born as well. I couldn't really, I didn't even know, you know, it was hard for me to even dream that much because I didn't know what their health would be like, like, next year, you know, let alone next week. So it was just what needs to be done. And that, that was enough.

Like, that was, I mean, I, I couldn't handle any, I think dreaming at that time would have been like, just instead of being like fun and like something to look forward to, it would have [00:14:00] been like a burden. However, when...

Julie: That's such a good point, that there's a season for dreaming? Am I extrapolating 

fairly, you think?

Meghan: Yeah, so, so I talk about you know, in the book being like in survival mode, and in that time I was in survival mode, and, and you really, you might not have the capacity to dream while you're in survival mode for whatever reason, and I, and I think that's okay, you know? But as I also said in the book, it's not, you're not meant to live forever in survival mode.

I mean, gosh, you know, I think there's, there's a time for that, but then if you find that you can kind of leave that all like, you know, used to just, your life used to just be filled with all these things and you're going to look around and go, wait a second, like there's all this space and capacity, which for a time is good because you can rest and you can take a deep breath, but then it's kind of like, okay, what now?

And. Dreaming is a great thing to do to kind of launch off from, from that point, [00:15:00] you know, it's fun. It doesn't have to be it doesn't have to be super serious right away, but it just gives you, it just gives you something to like, look forward to and kind of like a, like, it gives you an idea of like, okay, what direction am I going to step next, I think.

So to be able to get back to that, To that point, I think when I was young, when I was like in high school, I used to have all kinds of dreams and goals, like I was big on dreams and goals. That's part of, I think, who I am, like I'm wired that way. 

Julie: And that stage, I feel like, is so full. Yeah. 

Meghan: Like the potential for dreaming.

I mean, like, I had that goal, right? Like, I mean, we can argue about whether it was it was a wise goal, but that goal to, you know, finish college in two years. That was a dream. You know, it was a dream. It was a goal that I... That I, you know, for better or for worse, had something to, like, work towards. And so I've learned about myself that, like, I'm, I thrive best when I have something like that in my life.

Julie: Yeah, yeah. Exactly. What do you think, as mothers, and as... As [00:16:00] homeschool mothers, like, we take this, like, dream of an education, right? We dream of, I dream I could do something and love these children into their education. And then I'm sure you're so, you've been doing this a long time. It's like, then like the dream, like the love and then like the, the train of reality come crashing together and all the pieces are left.

Like, what advice do you have for mothers that? That that crash happens, like here's the dream, love is the finest vehicle for educational growth and then the reality crashes into that dream and the pieces are down there. What advice do you have for people that, that fall that, cause I, I sense that's what happens to a lot of us.

Like, okay, I had all these dreams and now I'm almost afraid to dream again. Like what would you say to that?

Meghan: So I think. One of the best things that you can do as a parent is to give your kids like an example and to let them see you as like a real person [00:17:00] that's not just like their mom, you know, let them see you as someone who has, I, I want to say to moms that like you, like here's your permission to have a dream or a goal that doesn't necessarily have anything to do with your kids.

It might be totally separate. You know, writing this book had, had nothing to do with my kids, except that it had everything to do with my kids. 

Julie: Oh, it was both. Yeah. It was both. It was everything and nothing. 

Meghan: Yeah. Because I knew, you know, after I said, I don't remember, I think I did say this in the book, but like, I actually, I started writing the book and then like, I don't know, two or three weeks later, I.

I kind of mentioned to Cory, like, Oh, I started writing a book, like I didn't even, I didn't say, Oh, I, I wanted, I'm going to do this thing, I'm going to write a book and then start later. I just kind of, I just kind of started in the notes section of my phone because I didn't have a laptop, but I knew that if I didn't start then, then I probably like wouldn't, you know?

And so I told Cory and he was like, you're writing a book. [00:18:00] On what? And I was like, oh, on my phone. And so he was like, get in the car, we're buying you a laptop. That's ridiculous. Like, you're getting, if you're going to write a book, you're not going to write a book on your phone. That's, and he was right.

Julie: Like, that's such a beautiful, he fueled, he was like, I'm supporting this dream. 

Meghan: Yeah. But so then I was like, I started like tell, mentioning to my kids, like, oh, I'm writing a book. And I would say, oh, I'm going to go to the coffee shop down the street and write for a while. And so they just kind of like, would see me do this thing and they would see their, and They would see that like I had that I had a goal that I was working on and so then in their little ways like they would start going, you know, like Declan was like, Oh, I want to write like a story.

Can I write a story on your laptop? And so you can kind of see it's the same with like, you know, exercising. So like, you know, Delia has like a little two pound set of like dumbbells and she'll be like, I'm going to go work out in the garage because she sees me, you know, do my strength training. So even though those things are goals that have nothing, they're not like mom goals.

They, I think, you know, it's okay for your kids to see you as somebody that's like a [00:19:00] full, like a, a full whole person and not just their mom, you know? Yes. Yeah. So beautiful. Yeah. And then I think, I actually think I didn't exactly answer the question that you asked. And so I would say to that as well. Oh gosh, definitely when I was a young mom.

So I had Logan. Logan's about to be 19. I definitely think that I looked at my first child as kind of like, okay, I'm responsible for like, how this child turns out and the things that they do and like, you know, and, and again, this is like a reflection on like, Like, he is a reflection on, like, who I am as a mother.

Like, am I a good mom? Guilty over here. Yeah. But then, I think, as you grow and you have more kids, you realize that, like, okay, They're their own person, and so you have to let them, like, be who they are, separate from you. Preach. And so, yeah. 

Julie: That can only be learned in pain, maybe.

Meghan: That's true, because you see, [00:20:00] you see that, if you see there could kind of push back.

For me God was just kind of like, okay, what we're going to do. is for your second child, we're going to give you Alana, who is like you know, she's about to be 15, but she is a true Enneagram 7. So, she, so she is kind of, like, I'm the one, and I like order and routine, and Alana, wants to have fun and she doesn't want to be too deep.

And her, her favorite quote to save me all the time when I'm getting a little bit too, like, you know, micromanaging, I guess she'll say, mom, just let me live my life. Just let me live my life. And so like, I needed that. You know, so that it, that was kind of like a forcible, like rip the band aid off of like, you know, like Alana will, will demand that, you know, that you see her differently.

Julie: Yes. Yeah. Oh, yeah. You let go. I was just having a conversation with someone recently about this idea of like, as our kids get to be teenagers, we can either know them more deeply or control them. Right. But if we choose to try [00:21:00] to control them, we will know them less deeply. Like, it's so true. And I'm like, this is a painful lesson, but it is a lesson.

Meghan: Yeah, which is, which is so funny because, you know, I I always need to be in control of myself. But I do not like other people to control me, so I'm trying to remind myself that because sometimes like I can tend to out of love, like try and control somebody a little bit too much because I'm like, Oh, but I love you.

I care about you. I want you to be your best self. But then like, I have to be reminded that I would not appreciate that either. So 

Julie: it's so true. I have to be reminded of the same thing. I heard something recently and I'm curious what you think about this. is this idea of third, third, third. And I feel like it invites so much grace to me and so much perspective of like, so my child is doing something and I think a long time ago I would think it was 100 percent my job to direct them in a certain direction and they needed to think this certain way.

And as time and failure and heartbreak and like [00:22:00] humbling and my pride becomes more aware to me, it's like I realize, okay, I actually have. Far less control than I think, like I've talked often about the illusion of control. And so what this was introduced to me was like, it's, it's probably a third of the child's nature, just like the way they were wired as God made them a third, the way you and many, many others have nurtured them and a third, their choice when there's a particular thing that comes up.

And I'm like, I love that because that is like, certainly not scientific, but an interesting intellectual exercise for me to not. But everything is my fault or everything is my responsibility to fix. Like, yes, how I dream and how I model is going to go into this 33%. 33. 3333 percent But like, my failure to dream and model is not going to be the driving force.

There's also their choice and their particular wiring. And I just thought for... For a mom like me who struggles with perfectionism and all of that, it's like, that's a, [00:23:00] that feels like a gracious mental exercise. That it's not all about my rights and wrongs, and that they have some choices here, and they have some wiring here.

I'm curious, does that resonate with you at all? 

Meghan: Yeah you know, and I think, I think it would probably vary depending on the child, you know, if we want to be real accurate. But as, like you said, I think it's a really good like picture to use just as kind of like a mental exercise, I'm betting. And I, and I definitely think that when I first became a mom, I probably thought I had a whole lot more control over, over, you know, the tiniest things over, over this.

I really did, you know and then you have more kids and like now, you know, because my age range is huge. Logan's about to be 19. Delia is just about to turn seven. And Sometimes I'm, like, wondering if Logan looks at how we're raising Delia and goes, like, Really? Because we are, like, so much more laid back.

We see the things that I thought were, like, so important with him [00:24:00] that I realized matter not at all, but a whole lot of energy was, like, expended. for no reason. 

Julie: And so my older kids at my older three have literally said to my husband, I had a family fire the other weekend. They were like, you guys are so different.

The younger kids never get punished. What else did they say? They were like, we think it's COVID. We think COVID changed you. And I'm like, how do I summarize to them? And I've even referenced that actually very recently, but it's like, how do I summarize them? It's like, the more you live, the more you learn, the less control I realize I have.

Like, the more I'm letting go and holding them open handedly and the more I don't have this over responsibility, like a hundred percent of all their decisions are my responsibility, then it allows me To not feel so micromanage y to them all the time. 

Meghan: Absolutely. And, I mean, we don't want it to be that we were such, like, controlling parents that then [00:25:00] all of a sudden our child's an adult and they can't, like, function without us.

So true. We don't want that to be the truth. So it's gonna serve everyone better if we, we slowly are letting, you know, every day you have a baby and from the day that that. baby leaves your body or, or as the case may be just simply like grows up and goes from one stage to another we're slowly like letting out that rope and if we try and like hold it back like that's not going to benefit anybody.

It's friction. There's a lot of rope burns from holding that rope. And I think also it's a whole lot more fun like in contrast I think that a lot of parents were so busy. having dreams and goals for our kids. Like, we're having all these dreams. We're like, Oh, you know, you're really gifted in this area.

So now I've decided that, you know, I think you're going to do this thing and that thing. Like, without their consent, they're just growing up and, and like, we're, we're forming these dreams and goals for them that are not in our control. And then if they don't, Like, you know, if they don't [00:26:00] pick those up, it's, like, stressful for us.

Instead, we could have spent that time just encouraging them and leading by example and, and dreaming and making goals for ourselves, which we should do, and they would go, Oh, hey. You know, look at, look at my mom or my dad and like they had this goal and they did this and they spoke out loud about it or even my mom or my dad, they had this goal and then like they made a mistake or like it didn't work out and it was harder or they changed their mind like so, so much probably so much better than, than the other way of like, we're, we're like, here's your goals.

Like we've, we've made them for you. No, don't mess up. Even though like you have no. you have no, you have no idea how to do this and maybe you don't even want it. I want it more for you than you want for yourself, you know? So that's why I think, um, I try not to like have this. This is going to sound weird, but I, but I think people are going to understand what I mean.

I try not to have dreams or goals for [00:27:00] my children because I would much prefer the fun of watching them have their own dreams and goals and Like, you know, work on them. 

Julie: So true. I relate a lot to that. And then I think there's a tricky balance. It's like, yes, I don't want to have dreams and goals for them.

I want them to have their own dreams and goals. But then, oh, the wisdom to know the difference of, like, which ones to fuel. It's like, we've got the rocket fuel for those dreams, and it's like, if they're owning it, right, it's, they will fly. But it's like, how to know Because we are the ones that prepare the buffet of options on what that is, which is why it's so powerful for us mothers to keep dreaming.

Because culturally, so many mothers stop dreaming for themselves. And it's like such a gift to have writers writing books and podcasters having podcasts and painters painting and all these things our own path. 

Meghan: So. And I think for me too, like it's a lot easier to like. To say things to your kids, to say, Oh, you know, you should, you should set, You should [00:28:00] set goals and work on them.

But it's a lot harder to, like, actually do that. With it. And, like, show, and, like, show them how you're doing it. And I don't want my kids to be like, Oh, my mom was like, Oh, you should have a goal. You should, like, have a dream for your future. But, like, What is she doing? Like, exactly. What does she ever do?

Like, I don't want them to say that because they, they would be, they would be right if I'm just saying all these things and not really doing them then. 

Julie: And that's like the beautiful and the terrible part about being a mother. It's like, if you want to do it and really want to give your whole heart to it, right?

Like, am I, and I think it breeds more compassion. to follow, like even just this journey of the podcast. It breeds so much compassion of when they're trying something new, how vulnerable it is to dream, how tender it is to have a dream. 

Meghan: Absolutely. Yeah.

Julie: So you have a quote, another chapter you have about put it down resentment. And for me, this is, it's like half the battle is just being aware.[00:29:00] So here's one of your quotes. Something I've learned about myself since is that I possess this false underlying belief that any issue can be controlled and fixed if I simply have the desire to do so.

Therefore, if I come across a problem over which I'm unable to gain control, I avoid the pain and discomfort of defeat by resenting the actual existence of the problem. That's so honest, that's so honest. I would love for you to talk more about that. It's so honest. 

Meghan: Oh man. Yeah. And you know, there's that control issue again, which, which yes, is something that I'm always having to work to like put down and not pick back up.

Yeah, like it's, it's, it's hard for me to sometimes reconcile that. Like sometimes, sometimes something can't be solved or I can't quite, I can't quite get. under there enough to figure out how to figure something out and how to solve a problem. And so I think sometimes it's like a, so we all have like a [00:30:00] fight or flight response and so sometimes I'll have like a flight response to that where I just decide I'm just gonna, I'm just gonna, I'm out.

I'm just gonna try, I'm gonna try and like move ahead without actually like Dealing with it and it's like I'm just gonna pretend it's not still there because because admitting that it's still there like admits that like There could be something in my life that I cannot in and of myself. I can't figure it out.

I can't, you know, I can't get to the bottom of it and it's, and it's difficult and it's difficult to deal with sometimes. 

Julie: So yeah, yeah, it's so honest and another quote from that section that I loved is that realization would never have been possible. You're talking about some things that you realized when you really looked Head on at these resentments would never have been possible without the long, hard, individual work of being honest about my resentment, allowing old damaging events and misconceptions to rise to the surface where they could be untangled once and for all and learning true [00:31:00] vulnerability.

By allowing Kory, her husband, to join me while I workshopped through my feelings rather than keep them in top secret status until I'd perfectly interpreted and organized them all. 

Meghan: So good. Thank you. 

Julie: Was that like a n easy process once you invited him into that? Was that like a whole nother 

level of 

Like, was that, did, was that something he naturally had to meet you in those resentments and workshopping that out, or was it something you're, you grew into, or?

Meghan: It, no, it wasn't easy, because, and, and to give some context, so, I'm talking about, like, resentments, like, within our marriage, so, so, Corey and I, I think we communicate really well, but But if it's like, you know, something like we're having an issue, like, with each other, and especially if I'm, like, not, like, at the time, I wasn't even quite sure, like, you know, why I [00:32:00] felt certain ways.

I couldn't, and he, he just assumed, because I would never, like, give him the answer, he assumed, like, you know, I didn't care. You know, because usually I'm very, like, introspective, but, but I couldn't, I just, I wasn't really sure, like, what was going on. And so, it was really frustrating for both of us. So... But instead of me saying, hey, the truth is, like, let's talk about this, but I, but the truth is, I don't know how I feel, like, I really don't know how I feel, and I don't know why I feel this way, and I'm frustrated, and I don't have myself figured out, like, there was like a pride in that, or I guess, yeah, sure, there was a pride in that, because I'm like, no, like, I don't, You, you have to like, you know, you should, you should know why you feel certain ways.

Like if you're, if you're choosing, you know, if you're choosing an action, you should know why you're doing this. Like you know, my kids, my kids will do something. Why did you hit your sister? And I'm like, I don't know. And I'm like, of course, you know, you know, so, you [00:33:00] know, it's kind of like that. And to be able to sit and just say, okay, well, you know, let's talk through this.

That's why it's while it's messy. And while I don't. I don't know what's going on, like, I remembering the context too? 

Julie: This was about, like, purity culture. Coming out of purity culture. Yes. I'm making sure I'm remembering the context of that. 

Meghan: Yeah, so, so the context we're talking about the chapter is putting it, putting it down resentment.

And it's talking about getting to a point in my marriage where there was just like where I never, I did not want to have sex. There, it was like, it was like an aversion to it, and then and, and Corey, who, that's like a just like any type of like physical touch, not just sex, but like, I mean, I even got to the point, I didn't really want to like like hug him in public, I just, mm mm, and the reasons for this were were kind of twofold, like we had we had been through an issue with like some family members where I didn't feel, where I felt kind of portrayed by Corey because he was trying to like like create peace and I didn't feel very, very [00:34:00] protective and then also digging deeper into kind of the, the like how we were raised, you know, as we started dating was in the height of purity culture in the 90s.

And so what we were taught about, like, intimacy and sex, like, that had played a part. And I didn't even, like, later on in my marriage when this was happening, up to, like, you know, five to ten years ago, you know, that recent, like, I didn't, I didn't realize that the, those seeds had been planted and were starting to kind of, like, grow and, like, be toxic until I could really, like, You know, kind of like dig, dig under and be like, why do I feel this way, you know?

So, so yeah, but then within a marriage to be able to like come to your husband or your, or your wife and, and Talk about things even when you're just super confused about them. Like for me it was hard because it's like it's very vulnerable, you know? But in a way where I was like, oh, it's, it's vulnerable not just for me, but it [00:35:00] has to do with him.

So it's tender and because it has to do with him and there's hurt there, like he might say something or do something or have an opinion that's gonna like hurt it more before I figured it out, you know? Before you solve it. Yeah, yeah. And it's like you're such a... 

Julie: It seems like one of your strengths when I read about like your minimalism chapter is like, you seem to have such a strength of like getting in there and getting it done.

So what? 

Meghan: Like being, yeah, so sorry to interrupt. Oh no, go ahead. That organizational strength is true. And until you just mentioned that, it's kind of funny because yeah, like like I'm a very organized person. I love organization. So I think I like my thoughts and my feelings as well. You want it tidy.

to be organized and to have order. Like that's a big deal for me. And so when they're not, and they're messy, like it's like if a room in my house was a mess, I'd be like, let's shut that door. You know, like we have to deal. So either I'm going to be like, next thing I'm doing is I'm like, drop everything until that room's clean or we're pretending the room doesn't exist in the house.

You know? Yes. 

Julie: I love that. Yeah. [00:36:00] And so like to see that, because we all could do that more. Well, this has been so good. And we will link in the show notes how folks can get your book. And is there anything else you would like to share in closing? This has been such a great hour. Thank you so much for sharing your time.

Meghan: Thank you so much. Yeah, I don't, I think you covered a lot. I think just the thing that I would. Want to, like, communicate, like, as, as a general theme of this book, is that, like, everything, everything matters, you know? I started off just being like, you just kinda, you're, you're going through your life and this happens to you and that happens to you, but the book is really about that. If you, if you kind of, if you look, the title, Butterfly Out, if you can kind of picture like being like a butterfly who can, as opposed to a caterpillar, you kind of have to crawl through everything. All you can see is like the blade of grass in front of you. But as, as you've gained like the wisdom and the strength to, to kind of like come into your own butterfly phase, so to speak, you're able to kind of fly higher and now you can see how, [00:37:00] how like, Oh, that thing I went through right there.

Look at how that merged with this other thing. And oh, well, I, you know, while I went through this time of, you know having a child that has medical issues, like I was able to put down, you know, the certain thing that was really holding me back in my, in my character and in my life and I was able to pick up this other thing and not all of it is bad like that's Definitely why I wanted to write about some things that were not all like difficulties or hardships or hurts But other other things that are just like fun like good things, you know and we can we can pick we can choose to pick up or put down something even in those times like it all It all matters, and it's, and it's all connected, and there's always like a choice that you can pick up or put something down.

And then I think going through life, we can't... There's, there's times we have to crawl through it, like, we don't have a choice, but I think now that I have an awareness that, like, okay, even if I, I don't have the wings to see it right now because I'm [00:38:00] busy crawling through this, like, I have the faith. I know that if I could, and if I could, if I could butterfly out and see it all, like, it connects.

Ugh. So, yeah. 

Julie: That's so beautiful. What a wonderful way to end. 

Would you please do me a huge favor? Would you follow, like, share any and all of those things that you'd like to do? I'd be so grateful.