Double Bass and Beyond - Gary Upton of Upton Bass
Double Bass and Beyond - Gary Upton of Upton Bass
String Theory Unstrung - Debating C Extensions, Five-String Basses, and Authentic Sound with Gary Upton and Blake Hinson
Get ready to dive into the intriguing world of double bass strings in this captivating episode! Join hosts Gary Upton and Blake Hinson as they unravel the debate surrounding the necessity of a C Extension or a five-string bass for orchestral players. Discover the emotional impact and authenticity lost when bassists opt for playing notes an octave higher, and explore the nuanced complexities of maintaining musical integrity. They also delve into the realm of transcriptions and the responsibility every musician holds to preserve the original intent of the music. With their unique insights and passion for the double bass, this episode is a must-listen for all bass string enthusiasts!
In the second chapter, Gary and Blake take a deep dive into the composition of their preferred string setups, sharing their expertise on the blend of spire core and Belcanto strings. Gain valuable insights into their thought process as they compare various string configurations, including the transformative effect of string selection on the instrument's voice. They discuss the Galliano basses and the Upton copy, shedding light on the tonal possibilities offered by different string choices. And don't miss the exciting announcement of Blake's upcoming "beef set," promising a whole new range of tonal possibilities for fellow bass aficionados. If you're passionate about the double bass and want to join the ongoing conversation, this episode is a must-listen!
Hey guys, it's Gary Upton. We're doing a quick podcast here, me and Blake Hinson. Look him up. If you don't know who he is. What do you do, blake?
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, I mean basically. So I'm assistant principal based in the New York Philharmonic and I play a lot in the New York area, and I guess we're kind of just talking about bass strings and expectations for different mindsets.
Speaker 2:We got it to C Extensions and the thing I wanted to capture you saying is and I could burn this all down if you don't like it- but, I, wanted to capture you saying a bass isn't complete, yeah, so my personal, in terms of an orchestral player, I feel like a bass is not complete unless it has an extension or you're playing on a five string. That's another option that basically would allow you to access all the notes. The point that I have, or the problem that I have, is that we have players that oftentimes will show up and they'll play things up the octave, and that was not the intention of the composer.
Speaker 2:The composer had every option at their disposal and they chose to write those notes down the octave.
Speaker 1:Yeah, those were their colors.
Speaker 2:So for me it's just, you know, I would. When a bass player plays a note up the octave instead of playing a note on an extension or something like that. I think of it as akin to as if a violinist showed up to an audition and they said well, I'm not going to play any of the notes on the bottom G string, you know, but, but sorry, kicking your face. Yeah, it's okay, but you know, I promise I'll play them up the octave and they'll sound really good. In fact they'll sound better.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and you know, I'm like okay, well, but that's not what we're charged with, and so so my mindset is they told me messed up clearly and I'm going to put them up.
Speaker 1:Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 2:You know, like there's so many mindsets that one can have on this stuff and the truth is is that if you don't have an extension, you don't have an extension you know, and you, you go and you play the best you can in any scenario, but in terms of what I'm doing on the daily, I know what. So, gary, you, you made me, you made me the dress rehearsal copy of the Santa Juliana bass that that's sitting right in front of us, right?
Speaker 1:now.
Speaker 2:And I remember I played that for about two weeks on the gig and I made sure that the the weeks we were playing we didn't have any extension notes because it didn't have an extension. And then the moment that we started having extension notes, I just said I can't do it anymore, I just I want like that. Bass was great, still is great, I don't know it anymore, but it's still great. And but the thing is is like I knew that I was doing a disservice to my gig, to my well, that was a hybrid.
Speaker 1:Yeah, there was the hybrid. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, in Michigan or something. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So gotcha.
Speaker 2:So, anyway, the point is is that, yeah, I, I, my, my stance is that if you can't play the low notes, then it's not complete. Yeah, you know you're not. You're not. You're not getting exactly what the composer asked.
Speaker 1:I get that, I just thought it was cool to hear you say it quite succinctly like that. That you know. Yeah, I guess if you showed up at the piano and you said, sorry, I don't have anything below middle C, they're going. I'll just put it all up and off.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I mean we think about we. We assign qualities to keys. We, my favorite, just just because we probably talked to a lot of bass players here. I'm held in heroes life. It's written in E flat. E flat is deemed the hero's key. You hear Beethoven's third symphony, also written in E flat. These, these keys have a specific quality. Range has a specific quality.
Speaker 2:When you're another another great Yana check was known for writing in complex keys, you know. But D flat sounds different than E flat in terms of the tonality and the tone place you go, and so the same thing is true for, for, for range you know.
Speaker 1:Well, even then, you know, is it not a composer's job to understand every instrument that they're writing for, the strong points of all of those instruments, then to write the key of the tune in wherever they choose, to have sweet, gentle voices or big, robust voices. And then we have people saying, oh, let's, let's shift it to, let's change the orchestration. Yeah, like and I mean that's.
Speaker 2:It's part of the. It's part of the, the concern that I have when I make a transcription. When I'm when I'm making a transcription, I'm thinking to myself what was the composer's intention by putting it in this key? Because, as bass players, we're very prone to putting things in G and D and A just because it works well with the instrument.
Speaker 1:I only play in G.
Speaker 2:Yeah, exactly, you know most people do it's, it would seem. It would seem that a lot of people love playing.
Speaker 1:The only way I would change it is to change the tuning of my notes.
Speaker 2:Yeah, just hike it up a half step and now I'm in A flat. Oh, great yeah, lovely yeah. But I just, I don't know. It matters to me, you know the sound that the composer intended for you to reach in and I think that, however we get to, that is important.
Speaker 1:Last thing before we run off of our little five minute rant. Here we were talking about two different sets of strings. I put three fingers up.
Speaker 2:Two different sets of strings. You were saying.
Speaker 1:And I have for a long time had my Gary's blended set for my jazz guys. It's a spirochor, spirochor, obligato, obligato. You can't really tell the difference. It gets rid of the PRAING on the G string and you're saying essentially you have Blake Hinson's beef set. It's a, it's A go ahead.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So on my Gagliano bass, at which I've had copied, now I basically top-bottom I go G string belcanto D string. Belcanto A string original flexicor. An E string, permanent extended E string or potentially a middle gauge spirochor, depending upon the season and how the bass is acting. Because if the bass is acting really dark I need something to cut. If it's acting really bright, I need something to temper that.
Speaker 1:And then this is where the whole conversation and I hit the record button stem from, because I said the question. Well, like, obviously not with a regular E string, and that was the point. Blake had said hey, it's not a bass in our setting if it doesn't have an extension.
Speaker 2:Totally so. I mean, but if one is playing on just a standard E string and you don't have an extension, same rule they're basically going to apply. I mean, this is when I joined the Philharmonic. I remember thinking, okay, I have a really good job that I'm content to kind of explore more of my inner musician. And so one of the things that I wanted to explore first was do I really have my sound? Do I really find, like, have I found the sound that kind of is most kindred to me? And so actually I started buying strings.
Speaker 2:I bought tons of strings and the real takeaway that I had was it's not just an example, you know one string is not going to be a do all, fix all, do it all for you, but what they do represent is they have tensions and when a good set of strings is going to represent a set of complimentary tensions, where you're going to have enough tension on this string and enough freedom on another string where you can easily feel comfortable. You know getting the breath of expression out of your instrument, and so strings matter, and that's kind of what I came to for my instruments.
Speaker 1:It's interesting for me that all of us seem to be doing either a flop of a tamastick up top and a porostro at the bottom, or a porostro is up top and tamasticks at the bottom.
Speaker 2:Hey, hey, you know.
Speaker 1:So we've got your beef set that you just explained. Do you have a fun pen name for the other set? Oh yeah, I mean.
Speaker 2:well, so my solo set. It's heavily influenced by one of my teachers, edgar Byer. He does a porastro permanent on top on the A string, porastro permanent on the D string and then a Spyrocore B string solo string. And then I have an extension of my solo instrument and I actually do the drop tuning and so I actually just keep a Spyrocore orchestral C on my solo instrument.
Speaker 1:So I always have that fifth on the bar. So I always have that fifth on the bar. So I always have that fifth on the bar. Yeah, so I always have a fifth on the bar and that's a middle.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, the middle gauge, yeah, and I.
Speaker 1:That's technically. S-44 is the name of the string. Okay, from Spyrocore, sure, because we get a little mixed up on that stuff.
Speaker 2:Gotcha yeah.
Speaker 1:People call me too and they're like eh the head. And I'm like what's the S-45 and what's this extended E from that? And so I try to let people know too. It's the S-44. Yeah, Is it? Medium gauge Spyrocore E that happens to be a C string when it is extended.
Speaker 2:Sure, and the heavy gauge Spyrocore is. They're pretty hard on the hands for long games. So if you start with middle gauge for everyone out there, if you're exploring and you're curious, start with the middle gauge, find how that treats you. If you need more tension, if you need a thicker string sure, most people won't, most people won't desire that, but I mean you could go and get a dominant string. That's one of the most you can practically. You know, poke a button from across the room with it.
Speaker 1:They're very, very tense.
Speaker 2:But you know specific bass. If you have a really loosey goosey bass, a high tension set of strings might be the complimentary set. That just makes it pop.
Speaker 1:You need to figure out your tension. So your Santa has, your Upton Santa has, which you now have. You don't have the other one, but this has what I'm looking at, the spire core E, right, which is again, guys, that's an extended E, it's a C string and a Belcanto A, the Belcanto G. This currently has a super flexible on it because you're playing for a little extra zing.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so interestingly enough, like this is the super flexible, is not a super popular string. Most people don't even know what it is I.
Speaker 1:they look at my bass and they see this baby blue thing and they say Just about saying baby blue, it's a baby blue string it's a baby blue string and, like everyone, looks ahead and they say, what is that?
Speaker 2:I think they're underbated.
Speaker 1:I think so too. You've got to play it.
Speaker 2:I think what it is is that there's a space between Belcanto and spire core that exists, that I think everyone is. I mean Belcanto. They're coming out with a new Belcanto set, I think at some point in time. I haven't seen them personally, but I know that it's in the works. Well, it's not confusing. But but the point is is that my stance is that we already kind of have that string. This is, I would say that this one is more akin to a spire core than it is a Belcanto, but it's between that perspective. So it's I would say it's 65% spiro and then complimentary 35% Belcanto.
Speaker 1:And then reviewing again one last time the Galliano's, your Galliano, the Upton copy of the Galliano, both of those, your basses. Not that we're playing another one here. They have run me the strings one more time.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so so top down, g Belcanto, d Belcanto, A Belcanto or original flex Right now I have a Belcanto on there, but the original flex is a great string for beef and then extended string. It's either right now it's a perastro, permanent, but it could be a spire core extended.
Speaker 1:All right, so we're going to have we're going to put it up on the website we're going to have a beef set by Blake Henson. We'll give you the softer sizzle and the hotter sizzle. We'll offer it a few different ways.
Speaker 2:Yeah, love it, love it.
Speaker 1:Cool. Thanks for letting me record our fun bass dork hang string talk. It's kind of what I do all day with everybody.
Speaker 2:It's what I do too, man. We show somebody what we do.
Speaker 1:Yeah, dude. Thanks, steve Perfect. Someone called right at the end that way to shut it off upset.