Remember that spicy Instagram story Beth posted on Saint Jack? The one with the beauty brand that wanted the world in exchange for ... well ... nothing? Buckle up, because this episode spills that tea and then some.
On this episode, learn why Beth rejected an offer to work with a top tier brand AND her top tips on how to excel as a creator in today's content economy.
Episode resources:
If you enjoyed this episode then please either:
Remember that spicy Instagram story Beth posted on Saint Jack? The one with the beauty brand that wanted the world in exchange for ... well ... nothing? Buckle up, because this episode spills that tea and then some.
On this episode, learn why Beth rejected an offer to work with a top tier brand AND her top tips on how to excel as a creator in today's content economy.
Episode resources:
If you enjoyed this episode then please either:
This is Behind the Brush by Saint Jack. I can say nothing, completely ghost this email and presumably let somebody else take this deal who hasn't read this fine print, or I can respond and hope that by speaking up, I help spark a conversation in their office that perhaps the days of riding an artist for pre products are over. Hello. And welcome back to Behind the Brush. It's me. It's Beth, your host makeup artist and founder of Saint Jack Cosmetics. How are ya? It has been quite a long time, obviously, since I've sat down and recorded an episode of this podcast. I tell you what I have fumbled a lot and I've recorded this intro like three times, and I've only got like three sentences in. So bear with me if this is not as clean and cool as it normally is. The podcast is something that I have been thinking about nearly every single day of the almost two months that I haven't posted anything. And I think about what do I wanna do with it? And I think about how I feel so shit that I haven't uploaded anything in so long. So I thought, you know what, maybe I'll give you a little bit of an explanation about what's been going on. But also just to share like where I'm at with everything and hopefully what's looking good for the future ahead. Things are looking much brighter. So I was at an event last month. And if you follow me or Saint Jack on Instagram, you might have seen me post about it. It was a really beautiful dinner at Pepe's Italian and Liquor in the city in Melbourne. And I was a part of a panel with fellow makeup artists, Lou Griffin, and also Dr. Jeylan Yilmaz, who is my Cosmetics, injectable doctor. And it was about having beauty founders to sit and chat with a bunch of women while we ate dinner, there was 40 or so of us in the room. And we were chatting about what it's like to own a business in, you know, the beauty industry, which is very difficult. If you're listening to this podcast, you would know that, but the theme of what we were talking about and what was underpinning, everything was the idea or the theme of chasing perfection and the idea that we all wanna keep up with everything, you know, and make it look like everything is great. And like particularly, you know, we've all been doing this for years with Instagram. But I'm really guilty of this. I'm now doing it on TikTok. And like, we only put the good stuff on the internet. And if, I think back after I interviewed yarn and that was a long time ago, like that was the beginning of may. And then I uploaded the episode in mid-May. I was so energized. I was so into the podcast. I had everything sorted. I had a vision. I was so happy. Like that episode just made me so happy. And then I had a trip to Queensland and I actually had a podcast interview lined up while I was in Queensland. And that didn't pan out because of a scheduling conflict, which is no big deal because I'll definitely talk to that person in the future. And then after that, I don't really know how it all kind of fell apart. But I came home from Queensland and it had been pouring rain the entire time I was there and I just felt wet and cold and yuck. And I was so exhausted. And two days later I tested positive for COVID. And I would say since then until very, very recently. I just haven't bounced back. And the thing that's really troubling, you know, is as a business owner and someone who has a podcast and a brand owner, and someone who wants to show her face all the time as part of this brand and be present for you guys, when you're tagging me in your stories or content that you're making. Is, I just haven't been able to deal with it. And I know that this is all very like depress, so martini and I'm super sorry. but I just wanted to share that with you and just be honest with you and just tell you that I haven't been feeling it. And I think that it's really hard to do that in our industry. I was working with a makeup artist in Melbourne on some weddings a couple of months ago. And he said that he had had a really bad night the night before. And we had two weddings to go to on that particular Saturday. And he was absolutely 100% running on fumes. We had two weddings, like I said, so we had two brides. We had two bridal parties and everyone looked beautiful, but he knew in his heart of hearts that it wasn't his best. And he just said to me, when we were at our like McDonald's pit stop in between the two weddings, he was like, you know, I'm only human. Like we're only human. And at the time I was like, yeah, yeah. But now I'm like, fuck, he was so right. He was like, I would never let my bride down on a wedding day. Like, unless I was in a life or death situation, but you just can't control the external things that are gonna happen in your. And in our industry, we are just expected to show up anyway, and it's so hard. And so I guess for me, I just, haven't been feeling amazing. And if I were to put down like all the ways where I've just been like feeling a bit on paper, it kind of looks like proper depression, but, and that's nothing to laugh about. Because I have suffered from that before. And I've been open about that on this show, but I'm super in tune with my mental health. And it's not that it's just circumstantial. It's the weather., I'm tired. And most of all, I am so pissed off that it is taking so long to get the second Saint Jack product to you guys. And I am just ready for that next part of my life and the business to begin. But then I'm kind of like, as my grandma used to always say, don't wish your life away. Like, I don't wanna wish my life away. There were so many moments and things that were happening to me six months ago, a year ago, two years ago, where I would have killed to be in the position that I am in now. So I just wanna stop and smell the roses a little bit. And I think I just needed a little bit of time out from the podcast and really showing up on TikTok and Instagram and like as Saint Jack to just be human and let, whatever those feelings were pass me by, because as we know, everything's temporary, nothing is permanent. And what comes through will come out eventually. that sounded so great.. Because, you know, I just didn't think it was right. If I'm here on this show to interview makeup artists and ask them to show up and be vulnerable and share their stories with me so that we can share them together as a community. I did not think it was right or appropriate for me to waste their time. By not showing up for them during the interview with anything less than 110% of myself to give. I didn't even wanna write the questions for the interview feeling like, Ugh, I can't be fucked. And you know, I just needed to get the good vibes back, get the excitement back. And I'm very pleased to say it looks as though we're heading in the right direction. Now action. Now this isn't just an exercise in me wanting to talk all about myself and the reason why I'm sharing this. Is because you might be feeling the same way too. When I was at this particular event last month, it was actually run by a friend of mine. Her name is penny, and it was through her business. Her business is called draw experiences and they're based here in Melbourne, but they also do interactive experiences and it's like food, networking events and cooking classes. Food dating events and stuff like that. And it's like, if I look at her on the outside and she's in a completely different industry to us, if I look at her from the outside, I'm like, she's killing it. Like she is doing such a good job. Look at this sick job she did for this giant company. The other day. Look, her, you know, latest event has sold out or look at this collaboration she's doing. And it's so funny because I showed up to that event and I hope she doesn't mind me sharing this. But she shared with everyone at the event that she was feeling like shit and that she had had a bad day and that she was thinking to herself, what am I doing? Like, should I be in this business? Should I be doing this? Like, is it worthwhile? Like, why am I Turing myself? And it made me feel so much better. not that she was having a shit one, but better to know that we're all kind of out here, pretending, like, things are amazing when sometimes they're. And I think that there's always gonna be part of us that doesn't wanna share when we're frustrated or down in the dumps, but in case you are feeling that way right now, when this podcast gets back in your earballs for the first time, in like two months in case you're feeling that way and it makes you feel better to know that I've been feeling that way. That's why I wanted to share that, but I am so, so, so, so, so happy. To be back. So today in place of a juicy interview, I'm just gonna ease my way back in, right. By recording a solo episode and talking about something that has. Troubling me would be a bit of a dramatic dramatic phrase, but it's been troubling me recently. And the topic is working with beauty brands or more specifically creating content for beauty brands and making sure that you're being fairly compensated. So again, if you follow Saint Jack on Instagram, you would've seen, it was probably more than a month ago now, but I posted a story with the poll and in the story, I. I have a podcast ready to go, but I'm calling out a brand for some pretty shitty behavior and how they treated me as a makeup artist slash content creator. I want the episodes to be a cautionary tale, but I'm also afraid it's gonna get me in hot water. I don't name them. I just anonymously shame them. What do you think now, side note, this one story that was like set to a completely unrelated photo of me looking very nice. Might I add at the belly pavilion got the most views out of any Saint Jack's story that I have literally ever. Post it like it was out of control and I was shook. And then I was like, you know what, I guess, controversy sell, like people are into that. And now of the thousands of people who viewed the story and the hundreds of you that voted 85% of, you said, go for it. Like tell me the story. Like who cares about the consequences, Blauer, Blauer, Blauer. And I had an insane amount of DMS and people wanting to know who was the brand. I bet you, it was this brand. And I was like, nah, it wasn't, but should I be careful with them? And you know, they were like, what, you know, what did they do? And tell me the story. And then they were telling me their stories and it started this really interesting conversation. and after a little bit of reflection, because obviously I had lots of time to think about it during this hiatus. I didn't mean to take, you know, I was thinking about what do I wanna get out of this episode? So I decided to restructure it. I was never ever going to name the brand, but in the first cut of this episode, it was gonna be deliberately quite spicy and dramatic with me, literally quoting. You know, things that they had said in a contract and in an email, and I was gonna read it in a super dramatic way that might win me and Oscar, but I've decided that's not for the best. So in this particular way, I'm gonna tell the story. There will be less spite on my end. And some very tangible tips about how to handle these sorts of conversations with brands to make sure that you are always getting paid and treated fairly for the work that you do. So after the world's longest introduction, ladies and gentlemen, let's get into the episode. A couple of months ago, I got an email from a brand to my makeup artistry account. So this is a kind of funny thing, just a side note, anyway, that I have a beauty brand, but then brands approach me as a creator. And so it's like, I kind of got your number, bro. Like I know what's going on, but anyway, I will not be naming this on this podcast just to say that again. Now this particular email gave me some background on the brand. So where they're from, what they make and how their products are love by super high profile, celebrity makeup artists who work with the Kardashians. Ariana Grande or some shit like that. Now I would be willing to bet my favorite handbag, my favorite handbag, that this was a generic copied and pasted email, but it went on to say, oh, we love your content. You aligned with us as a brand, blah, blah, blah. And they said we're currently organizing a gifting campaign. Now the phrase gifting was an immediate red flag to me that there was gonna be no exchange of money. But I was curious to see what exactly they would expect from me in return. So I emailed them back and I said, yeah, we'd be into it. But I asked them for more information. Now, the reply I received legit shocked me. And this is where I edited the content of this podcast the most. So it was like, Less direct quotes, less piping, hot tea and more of just a summary, but basically they were proposing that to give me like a hundred bucks of product, quick side note, again, a hundred bucks of product retail. Is probably at most worth 50 actual dollars, but they will like for a hundred bucks, a pro product, the brand wants you to sign a contract that says I will make video content that aligns to your brand, your brand colors, your aesthetics saying how much I love it. And that they, the company would own that content. And my likeness in that video in perpetuity. With irrevocable rights to transfer, share, or create derivative works essentially for the rest of all time, as long as I shall live. So while that sinks in, let me just give you a few definitions of a couple of those very strong words, irrevocable, not able to be changed, reversed or recovered final. Perpetual meaning never ending immediately. When I read this and I like lowered my blood pressure and my internal body temperature, I thought of the interview that I did with Hillary Holmes, which was the second podcast I ever did. Living legend in Melbourne makeup artist. Listen to it. If you haven't already. And we were talking about how brands can pray on makeup artists to get free content and to use them as their little marketing, Guinea pigs, and the words were just playing back in my head. So let's bring that in now for me, I just don't like the fact that these huge monopolies who are making absolute buck loads of money, bucket, bucket, bucket loads, millions of dollars a weekend. If not more. Yeah, no, no. Well, that's off just a couple of product lines. They are manipulating people who are working for free, who are trying to establish self in an industry who are probably broke, who can't really pay their rent, who are struggling to have an income. The manipulation on that is not okay for me. Mm. And that just tells me that they don't value those people. They're just using them as a vehicle. And I don't like that. What advice would you give to somebody who say, take me for example, 1300 followers. I've got a DM at the moment. Yeah. From a giant international brand that has a counter and David Jones, Meyers everywhere. Yeah. Saying. Let me send you a bag of products that you don't even get to choose. And then you can exclusively work under our program for a few weeks. And then I don't even reply to it cuz I'm like, this is bullshit. But then I see other people who are kind of in my level or whatever using it. I'm like, come on, you're better than this. One don't compare. Yeah. Okay. Because there needs to be a leader somewhere. There needs to be someone sometimes to be a pioneer or a leader means that some people don't like what you're doing, but also you have to be the first. And that means that people will follow. If they see it one, the fact that they've said exclusive, which means they wanna own, you they'll. Second. That's fine. Let me try the product. If I like it, I will let you know if I don't like it. I will let my following know that is meaning that your integrity as an artist is maintained, that you have freedom to say, okay, I'm happy to try this product. Thank you for sending it to me, but my opinion will be my own. That's why I don't. If you're doing an unboxing flip, flip, flip, flip, I will skip past and go to a different page. I don't care if unboxings you having a box. That's not what you wanna buy the product. I wanna hear from a makeup artist. Have you used it? Do you actually genuinely love it or do you not like it? And I have way more respect for an to say, guys, I don't like this product at all. And I also know as makeup artist, that what works for you might not work for me. Like I was talking to makeup by Bernice the other day about morph. So I think morphs sponsoring fashion work this year. And I think that's the truth, so, oh, might not get that right. But I was of my research. I thought that was the case. And she said, I don't really like the Isha. They don't blend for me. And I'm like, oh, they blend for me. I love them. Like, I use them quite heavily in my salon. She's like, yeah, I can't use them. I'm like, it's in a funny, it's not about the products about the makeup artist using it. But the biggest thing is one, keep your integrity as an artist. If it doesn't something that you actually would use and you don't like it, then you gotta say it. Otherwise your followers are gonna start to lose trust in what you're about. Cause I know there's always people that are just doing PR boxes and press stuff. I'm not trusting their opinion because where's the makeup artist coming through. Yeah. And that's why in that case, I didn't even reply because it just, but the next best thing you should do is respond back and say, Hey, I would love to one. I can't be exclusive. I've got other things going on and I have to work. Like you said, huge business, making millions of dollars telling you that you can make an income of other avenues. So rude to, yeah. I'm more happy to share my opinion on what I think of this product. Because that's at the end of the day, what we're there to do, we're there to use our professional thing. So I think it's important to use your voice back to say, this is what I stand for. I'm not a minion, but also I have a voice. I think if you don't respond, the cock of the wheel just keeps on turning. So that particular part of the interview really put a fire in my belly. It put a fire in my belly as a brand owner to be like, I will never treat someone like that, but it put a fire in my belly as a creator to say, I will never be treated like that. So at this moment I had a choice. I can say nothing completely ghost this email and presumably let somebody else take this deal who hasn't read this fine print. Or I can respond and hope that by speaking up, I helped spark a conversation in their office that perhaps the days of writing an artist for pre-product are over. So for the first time ever, and trust me, I was so nervous to do it. It's like, you know, sometimes when you're gonna send a spicy text to like a guy or a friend, if you're in an argument or. And you like write it in drafts and then you send it to your other friend who's not involved. And you're like, do you reckon this looks good? I'm like, Hey mom, do you reckon this looks good? Anyway, I wrote an email and I stood up for myself as an artist and a creator. And I responded, I said, thank you so much for the recognition, but I told them that this. This, it doesn't make sense to me. I did not see the exchange of my content for a quote gift of this nature to be fair and reasonable. I said that creating content of this nature would be hours of work on my end. And if I were to do this essentially for free, not only would I be undervaluing and disrespecting myself, I would be undervaluing and disrespecting my peers to the brand's. They replied and they said, we mean, no disrespect. Oh, sorry. God, she's a bit intense. Isn't she . But honestly I believe them. Brands have been getting away with this shit for years, but you know what? They are not gonna get away with it anymore. If I've got anything to do with it. So coming up after the break, I'm gonna give you a quick snapshot into how brands are using the content they're asking you to create. And my top four tips to making sure you are being paid properly and the creator economy. Interrupting this episode of me talking with more of me talking it's Beth, the founder of Saint Jack. And I just wanted to quickly remind you that the makeup cleaning miss is a must have for your professional artistry kit made with the highest quality alcohol. So it absorbs quickly and smells so good. The MIS kills the bacteria on the surface of all of your products, like your eyeshadow. Bronzes blushes, everything so everything can stay nice and clean between clients proudly Australian made. Get your hands on the MIS online at WW dot Saint Jack dot com AU and use code brush 15 to join the hundreds of other artists like 10 J penny antra and Jack kale who always have the miss by their side. Now let's get back to the show. If a brand approaches you and wants you to create content. In exchange for money or anything else, I guess. You are my friend a part of what we call the creator economy. If you're into definitions and stuff like that, the creator economy refers to the class of business built by roughly 50 million or so. Freelance content creators globally, including social media influences, bloggers, photographers, and creatives. It is one of the fastest growing types of small business. Let that sink in for a minute. One of the fastest growing types of small business in the world. And if you make content featuring products or brand, it includes. The creator economy also signals the end of social media influencing, as we knew it. Think about it this way. Do you remember a few years ago when Instagram was still about photos? Maybe I GTV hadn't even been released yet, but real sure as shit wasn't on there yet. And TikTok was still this super niche app that only kids and like weirdos were into. And when a brand launched a product, it would be enough for them to send the product beautifully packaged to an influencer of a big audience, have them post about it on their Instagram story, or potentially even on their feed. And the product would basically sell itself. Now don't get me wrong. There is still a huge place for influences, you know, and influences really, really big audiences. But today, and I can tell you this from experience because I own a beauty brand that whole Instagram vibe is no longer what really makes the big bucks. Instead, what makes the big bucks for brands are the videos that people just like you and just like me create using a product, demonstrating how we use it in our routine, showing it in all of its aesthetic glory. And the key difference here is this. You no longer have to have a big audience for your content to be valuable to a brand. The value now is in you creating and supplying the brand with that content so that they can use it across their channels. And more importantly, in paid ads all over the internet, right? Brands no longer give a shit about you posting content to your channel. They want to own your content so that they can post it and they can use it. However they like. So. I think I've said this about 8,000 times in this episode and to a point where it's getting embarrassing, but since I am a brand owner, since I'm also a beauty content creator, and as longtime listeners of this show would know, I also happen to have a background in digital marketing. I am in a particularly unique position. AKA, I have the perspectives of three different players in this game to give you my top four tips to make sure you are being treated and paid properly for the content you create. Number one, read the fine print, baby. If a brand is sending you over a proposal to make content for them, make sure you are looking at every single page of that contract to see exactly what you're agreeing to. For example, the brand that sent me that email, trying to tell me that they were gonna own my face in this video forever and ever, and ever until the day I die. That's not a vibe. You wanna know things like, is it content supply only, or does the brand want you to post the content to your socials as well? What's the turnaround time who owns the content is the brand going to be using the content in paid ads across Facebook, Instagram, or TikTok. And if so for how long. Be aware that these clauses do exist. And if you don't specify your boundaries at that point of the agreement, You could be in trouble if you don't like what they proposed, email them back or suggest an adjustment. I'm really tripping on my words, guys. We're getting back into it. It's fine. ask them to adjust the agreement. And if they say, no, sorry, not doing it. We've got somebody else. Who's gonna do it for different, whatever. Just consider saying no, you don't have to do it. Number two, you decide your rates. If you are creating content for a brand, I can personally guarantee you that you are saving them from hiring a photographer, videographer model, hair, makeup editors, because you are all those people in one. when deciding your rates right? First workout. How long is it actually gonna take me to create this content and I'm talking about all right, you gotta set aside some time in that afternoon to do your hair, to do your makeup, set up your tripod to get ready. You gotta pick your outfit. How long is it gonna take you to actually film the video, talking about this particular product? And then how long is it gonna take you to edit it? And if they want you to post it, how long is it gonna take you to post it and to respond to all of the comments and to post it to your story and direct people there, right? Once you've worked out, how long all of that is gonna take you to create the video, then you've gotta work out what your hourly rate is. There is no set rate that applies to every creator and to some degree, experience and skill is gonna come into it. But if you're unsure, a good starting point might be to charge where you get paid as an hourly rate at your normal day job. So say you're, you know, getting paid $27 an hour to work at a beauty counter. Maybe you should be charging as a, you know, brand new creator,$27 an hour to make content. Food for thought you can. You are the only one who can decide number three, charge usage fees. Does the brand, you are creating content for want to share that content in paid ads. Even if they're not sharing your video in full in an ad, even if you're chopped up into another ad with lots of other people in. You are directly contributing to their bottom line, driving traffic to their website and what all brands care about. You are ultimately making them money through sales. You need to be charging for that SIS again, while there are no rules in deciding your rates. Somebody once told me that a good starting point is to calculate 30% of the total fee for your video and to charge that as an extra cost for every single month, they wanna use your content in the ad. For example, say you charge, I don't know, 300 bucks for an edited TikTok or real that the brand wants to use in their ads across Facebook, Instagram, TikTok, whatever 30% of 300 is $90. So you will charge$90 for every 30 days. That they will be able to use your video and your face in their ad. And if you notice that they are using your content, be on that usage period, call them out on it and send them an invoice baby. Number four, work with an agency. If you are thinking Beth, I really can't be bothered to calculate my rates and organize brand partnerships and go back and forth and negotiate with them. And that's like way too hard. I'm not into it. Look, trust me. I get it. If that's how you feel, why not consider applying to be a creator with a content creation agency? These agencies are literally popping up everywhere at the moment. I am certain you would've seen ads from the agencies calling out the creators, right? And the creative agencies already have the relationships with really cool brands that make products that we all like, and then they will tell you what the video needs to be like. And then they set the price. So you can either agree to it under those conditions or not. This isn't a situation where you'd negotiate that it's kind of like, this is the job we've got available. Does anyone wanna do. So even me, for example, I've worked independently in content creation, talking to brands, you know, myself and negotiating that myself. But there are also some really amazing brands that I've worked with, you know, through a content creation agency, including brands like mermaid hair, and recently conserving beauty who I've collaborated with by the agency. And it's super easy to organize. So that is absolutely another option for you. Now, these are my tips, but I also did just wanna say, if you are just starting out in your career as an artist, creating content, whatever, oh, you know what, fuck it. Even if you're established, you don't have to listen to these rules. You don't have to listen to me at all. If you really love a brand and they come to you and they say, Hey, make us a two minute video for free in exchange for this lipstick. And you wanna do it because you love the brand and you wanna work with them. Create a relationship. Knock yourself out. Creator economy is emerging so quickly and it's only happened very recently. So these are just the boundaries that I've created for myself in the last 12 months or so. And these are also if we reverse engineer it, these are the boundaries that I help determine for the creators who are gonna work for Saint Jack. So at the end of the day, I just love you guys. And I don't wanna see any of you being taken advantage of by a big beauty brand who probably has the budget to pay for you, but they just thought they might get away with you doing it for free, because you're not asking for anything different. We're just about done here. But remember this, if you have a phone. And if you can take really nice pictures or videos of a product, especially if you feel confident and happy to speak to the camera and talk about why you like something or why you don't, you are a content creator. You've always gotta start somewhere. But for me, the first place should always be making sure you are being treated fairly. The rest is up to you. That's about it for me guys. I felt like I was so rusty, but I hope that you got a lot out of that and that you feel inspired to maybe even approach some brands that you really like or to push back when you feel like the deal. Isn't making sense because you are valuable to them. Okay. You are so valuable to them. You're saving them so much money. So don't feel awkward asking for a couple hundred bucks. You know, and that's on a small scale, right? I have some juicy little interviews coming together quite nicely. And I can't wait to get back to the heart of the show, which is to share the stories of all of the makeup artists that we all know and love. I will hopefully get that up in the next fortnight and get back to regular programming. But in the meantime, you can keep up with me. My darlings, my artistry account is @bethwilson_mua that's on both Instagram and TikTok. Please follow Saint Jack it's@bysaintjack on Instagram. That's B Y Saint Jack. And you can find me on TikTok@saintjackcosmetics, but until then, I'll see you on the next one. Bye.