Dani Cousens is one of Melbourne's most sought after bridal and event makeup artists, and she is known for her signature soft glam looks. She's a New Zealand native, but has settled in Melbourne, where she is renowned for her signature soft glam style.
For the first time ever, Beth asked the Behind the Brush community to submit their questions about being a bridal makeup artist, and in this episode Dani spills all tea. Prepare to learn all you need to know about building a business in the bridal industry and be inspired for the upcoming season.
Find out more about Dani:
Episode resources:
Dani Cousens is one of Melbourne's most sought after bridal and event makeup artists, and she is known for her signature soft glam looks. She's a New Zealand native, but has settled in Melbourne, where she is renowned for her signature soft glam style.
For the first time ever, Beth asked the Behind the Brush community to submit their questions about being a bridal makeup artist, and in this episode Dani spills all tea. Prepare to learn all you need to know about building a business in the bridal industry and be inspired for the upcoming season.
Find out more about Dani:
Episode resources:
This is Behind the Brush by Saint Jack.
Dani Cousens:Just believe in yourself, like little old me that was in year nine that got pushed back by my teacher. Like I did not let that stop me. You know, if I had let it stop me, I wouldn't be doing makeup today. I knew that I wanted to be a makeup artist. And if you've got the passion and the drive, your skills will improve over time.
Beth Wilson:Hello. And welcome back to Behind the Brush. It's me, it's Beth, your host makeup artist and founder of Saint Jack Cosmetics. How are ya? I'm doing pretty good here in Melbourne. We have just had a succession of some beautiful sunny days. And even though it is absolutely raining cats and dogs out there now, it was very nice to have the chance to catch some rays. I went outside and I played fetch with Winnie and she was so happy. And now I'm just hanging onto this excitement. That winter has to be ending soon and we're gonna get summer warmth again. I also just celebrated my 30th birthday. You might have seen it on TikTok. This huge mama Mia, the movie themed party. So, so, so, so, so, so camp , I had the Ava cover band. All of my friends in my family got so dressed up and they just really showed up for me. This is your sign to have a party and just live your life. I had the best night ever. And then afterwards, when I was feeling like absolute death, the next day, I had so many beautiful messages from you guys in my DMS, just saying happy birthday, and you know, all your great wishes for the future and all that sort of thing. And I have just never felt as loved as I do right now. And that is a beautiful thing. So from the bottom of my heart, thank you. Much. I also just wanna say thank you for the incredibly warm reception to the last episode of the podcast in case you missed it. I uploaded my first episode back in about two months. Ha ha. Hey accidental. Hey, just how you doing. And it was all about my experience being approached by a fairly large beauty brand and they asked me to make content for them. And I told you why? I said. Hint, their proposal sucked. But then I shared my tips on how to make sure that you are gonna get paid properly for the content creation work that you do now. I don't think I have ever got as many DMS as I did in the days after that one went live a batter podcast episode. And so many of you guys were telling me that it was your favorite episode ever, because there was so much in there that you could relate to, but you never actually thought about it on a deeper. Like a lot of you guys were telling me that you've had brands approach you, and you probably said yes to things where you wish you hadn't, but now you are equipped with the tools that you can make these decisions from a more informed and confident place. So I've gotta tell you messages like that is why I am here. It is why I am doing this and it keeps me going. So please, if you love an episode, Number one, let me know. Number two, please leave mirror view on apple and Spotify. I haven't asked you to do that in a while, but it makes such a big difference and it really helps, you know, more people find the show. And number three, if there is a topic that you would like me to explore on the show in an episode like that, where I'm kind of just doing it, Han solo, let me know. I make every single episode with you in mind, hoping that you're gonna get something out of it, hoping that you're gonna learn something, hoping that you're gonna be inspired or maybe I'll just make you laugh. So please just tell me your ideas. I wanna hear your ideas. I'm sure they're amazing. But for today's episode, we are back to the prime of the podcast and I have got another juicy interview lined up with you featuring none other than Dani. Cousens now in case you don't know, Dani is one of Melbourne's most sought after bridal and special event makeup artist, and she is known for her signature soft glam looks. She's a New Zealand native, but she decided to settle into Melbourne after living in London for two years, where she first got her start in makeup, working for Mac, having done everything from fashion to formal. She is a wealth of knowledge, and she often shares her tips and tricks with fellow artists at her master classes, both in person and online. With input from the Behind the Brush community. For some of the questions in this episode, prepare to learn all you need to know about being a bridal artist just in time for the upcoming season. I can say with confidence that if I were to ever get married, if some poor bloke were to ever ask me to marry him, oh my God, I'm so sorry, knowing that I wouldn't wanna do my own face because I think I would be quite an anxious bride. Dani is one of the very few people I know that I could blindly trust to just make me look and feel my best, but that is absolutely enough for me. I think I took that one way too far. Ladies and gentlemen, I give you Dani. Cousens Dani. Cousens welcome to Behind the Brush.
Dani Cousens:Hello,
Beth Wilson:Hello. I just wanna let everyone know from the outset that Dani is joining us from home. You're currently on maternity leave. You have the beautiful Parker who is how old.
Dani Cousens:he's just turned three months old.
Beth Wilson:He's such a baby. So we are kind of, we tried to plan the podcast around Parker's sleep schedule. We're doing our best, but maybe we'll see if there's any like cute little MEPS. We'll we'll see how we go, but I just wanted to let everyone know, but thank you so much for doing this, especially while you're so busy with him.
Dani Cousens:Oh, that's okay. I'm so excited.
Beth Wilson:I know it's such a vibe I've had so many people ask me to get you on the pod. And then so many people were excited. I put up a story on Saint Jack being like, if there's anything you wanna know from a bridal artist and people are like, that's Dani's hand, I'm like, that's a little bit creepy.
Dani Cousens:ah, I love that.
Beth Wilson:yeah, I know. You're like, oh wow. They're really into that. Okay,
Dani Cousens:Yeah.
Beth Wilson:So will that love that for you? Maybe this is an only fan's opportunity for your hands, but anyway, taking it too far, Dani, I start every episode by asking each of my guests, what did you want to be when you grew up?
Dani Cousens:Look, I was thinking about this yesterday, when you sent through your questions. And I really can't remember like, you know, going back through primary school or high school, what I really wanted to do, I always had an interest in PE. So I remember, you know, thinking I maybe wanted to be a PE teacher and then I definitely always wanted to be a makeup artist. Like I think looking back at my time in high school, like in year nine, I remember talking as a class, we had to talk about what we wanted to do when we were older. And I vividly remember saying that I wanted to be a makeup artist and my form teacher kind of laughed in my face. And then that really put me off and look at me now
Beth Wilson:I know, I know we're like, fuck that teacher.
Dani Cousens:Yeah. So yeah, makeup has definitely been in the forefront of my mind since I was a young girl, but I think just having that knock back in high school, it definitely made me think of other options and yeah, I was always interested in PE. So I'd say that probably was, you know, aside from makeup, would've been my other avenue
Beth Wilson:Yeah, for sure. So how did you get started then? Because let's take a step back. I'll take a step back, cuz I'm leading it here, but you moved to London in 2015. So how old were you
Dani Cousens:I would've been 20.
Beth Wilson:And so when you moved to London at 22, you got a job at Mac. Is that right?
Dani Cousens:Yes, but not initially. That was my goal. Like when I left New Zealand, that was my goal to work for Mac. And I think I'd been living over in London for about six months before I stepped foot into a Mac store with my portfolio. I went in with my images of makeup that I'd done back home dressed in all black. Like I wanted to look like I was a Matt girl and yeah, it'd probably been about six months since I'd been in London. And I walked in and handed over my CV and got asked to come back for an interview, but it didn't happen, you know, straight away. So the interview process was really long. I think I had a sit down interview and then a application interview and I actually didn't get the job first time. I. Knocked back the first time. And then I went back, I think three months later taking on board. What they'd sort of said to me in that first interview and yeah. Went back through the interview process and then I got the job from there. So
Beth Wilson:What did they say to you when they knocked you back?
Dani Cousens:it wasn't anything like that I had specifically done. It was, I guess my confidence as an artist wasn't, you know what it is now, the artistry component was fine. It was more just how I spoke about throughout the interview process. So when I was doing the application, they really wanted me to speak about every aspect of what I was doing. And I don't think I was being specific enough about every single step that I was doing. And I think that just came from like a confidence thing. I wasn't used to talking about every exact step. So that was their main feedback that they gave me.
Beth Wilson:I'm just curious to know, like in that kind of three months between you apply for the dream job, you get knocked back. You go for it again, three months later and you get it. If there was anything that you knew that you could kind of work on in that time, that really pushed you forward, that other people might learn from there.
Dani Cousens:I think just, I, I knew that I really wanted to get that job. So if that was the feedback that they gave me, I just knew going into that next interview that, okay, I need to speak about exactly every single step that I'm doing, why I'm doing it, even if it sounded silly to me, like that was what the feedback was given in the interview. So I'm just gonna speak about, you know, why I'm blending this product and why I've chosen these products for this, for the particular model. And yeah, I guess my confidence, I guess, show through in that second interview and yeah, that's that, wasn't like the only reason I was offered the job, I think I went through five interviews with that. That second time round. And that was in London. It's a really different process to Melbourne. Like you have an interview with the store manager, you have an application interview. I think I even had like a group application interview as well. And then they put you in for an interview with the overall store. So I was working at Harvey Nichols. So the actual Harvey Nichols manager also interviewed me there. So you are kind of talking to yeah. Four or five different people throughout their interview process.
Beth Wilson:So when you were ready to leave London, so how long were you there for?
Dani Cousens:I was there just shy of two years.
Beth Wilson:Right. And then rather than going back home to New Zealand, you came here to Melbourne. So what was, what was that about?
Dani Cousens:I guess, being in, so I was with my partner who I'm still with. We just could not see ourselves moving back to New Zealand after living that London lifestyle. Like it's very fast paced and there's a lot of opportunity there work wise, we were on a visa. So we actually couldn't extend our stay any longer than what, you know, our visa allowed us to. So we had to either move home or move somewhere else that were, were really our only options. So being in our early twenties, we were, we kind of thought to ourselves, well, we don't wanna move back home. There's not gonna be as much opportunity there, especially for me work wise. And a lot of people that we'd met in London were from Melbourne and they just raved about it. So we thought let's just do it. Why not?
Beth Wilson:not? Oh my God. I admire that courage. I get homesick if I go to like the gold coast for three days. So I just Canditt I just can't deal.
Dani Cousens:I think because we'd done the big move already, like moving to London was such a massive thing for us. So moving to Australia from New Zealand, I mean that's only three and a half hours away. So being a bit closer to family, the time zones are a lot easier to speak to family as well. You know, you're at least only a couple of hours behind compared to when we were living in London, it was like 12 hours behind. So, you know, in the evenings it would be like their morning and it was a lot harder to, to catch up with people. So Australia was an easy move for us.
Beth Wilson:So when you came back into Melbourne, you were immediately just gonna go into Mac. Was that kind of preset up? It's kind of cool. When you think about it, the makeup's so transferable that you can do it anywhere in the world.
Dani Cousens:Yeah. Yeah. So I actually got in contact with someone who worked in one of the Mac stores in Melbourne. The store that I ended up working at in London after Harvey Nichols was Selfridges, which I don't know if you've heard of, but it's a huge department store. There was about 80 staff members that worked at Mac alone. When I was working there. So it was huge. So there were a couple of Aussie girls that worked there and one of them put me in contact with someone that worked at Melbourne central in Melbourne. So I got her contact details and sent her an email and just told her my story and that I was coming over to Melbourne to live. And that I'd love to transfer across from London to Melbourne. And if there were any job opportunities and we had a zoom interview, I think only a couple of weeks later, and I was pretty much offered the job on the spot. So I knew that I had a job to come to that made it a lot easier to move as well.
Beth Wilson:Yeah, for sure. And what were the biggest differences? I suppose, working, going from like a huge store, like Selfridges with 80 people to Melbourne central store. If you live in Melbourne, you've probably been there, but if not, it is so incredibly small. It's like a shoebox store.
Dani Cousens:It's tiny. Yeah. yeah. Yeah. I guess going from like such a huge team to a really small team, I think when I started there, there were maybe like six staff members. I found it really different in the way that they ran the store too. So in Selfridges, you kind of were put on like a, an area. So you were either like behind the counter or you were on foundations or eyeshadows or. You were color matching, you were kind of, yeah. The start of your shift, you were put to a certain area, whereas in Robin central, it was kind of like you are running over the whole store, so you might get someone that's coming for a foundation match. And then you might be seeing someone for a lipstick or you might be doing a makeup application. It was run really, really differently to how I experienced my time in London. But I guess the biggest difference was actually their makeup style.
Beth Wilson:Yeah. Okay. Tell me a bit more about that.
Dani Cousens:So if you've seen like love island or like any of the UK TV shows, you'd probably notice the makeup is quite different to what we typically wear in Australia. And even New Zealand would be much the same. So in London, I was really, I got really good at doing a big black liner, like a wing liner, you know, full on contouring, full, full coverage. You know, the more foundation on the better, like people would often say to me, can you put more foundation on? And that was already like a full coverage look, you know, overdrawn lips. Yeah, the full, I don't know what kind of moment you'd call that. It was a full glam.
Beth Wilson:It's a full glam. It was also kind of at the time of like the beauty guru, like a BH was everything. YouTubers were, everything like it was at that peak, but I can absolutely picture the style of makeup you're talking about with like, I just think of Jordy shore. Like I don't watch love island, but I watch. A lot of Jody. Sure.
Dani Cousens:Yeah. So that's that, that was what I was trying to reference like that kind of makeup was what was being requested in London when I was working there. So then to come to Melbourne and see the, the difference in the makeup style, which is obviously, as you can see in my own work, now, my makeup style is very soft and that was what I was getting asked to do in, in Melbourne, which is what I guess that's kind of helped me to develop my style that I do now today.
Beth Wilson:Yeah. Was it kind of funny coming back and then having people be like, oh no, like something a little softer or whatever. Did you ever kind of have to exercise restraint because you were so used to like doing the full coverage, like
Dani Cousens:yeah, I did a little bit to be honest, but I never really pictured myself as like a full glam makeup artist, even thinking back to makeup that I do on myself. I never. You know, full, full Jordy shore moment on myself. I never really had that moment. I definitely went heavier than what I would do today, but I'd always kind of pictured myself as, as doing stuff a little bit more soft and natural. So moving to Melbourne and seeing that, that was kind of the makeup style that was being requested. I was like, oh my God, this is so my element now.
Beth Wilson:You're like, oh my God, thank God.
Dani Cousens:Yeah, hundred
Beth Wilson:thank God I can do this. I can do this. This is me. So how long were you working for at Mac before you decided to go freelance?
Dani Cousens:I think I started freelancing about 18 months, two years after working started working at the Mac store in Melbourne central, but it was a slow process. Like I didn't go straight from working at Mac to full-time freelance. It was something that I kind of built up over time. So I dropped down my hours at Mac. I was, I think I was working about 30 hours initially. And then I dropped down to casual. So I was doing like 15 or 10 hours a week. And then the more Lance I picked up, then the less hours I would do at max. So it was like a gradual process. And then I think I started freelancing properly in late 2018. I think it was
Beth Wilson:So wild, cuz it's like, not even that long ago, but I can't picture a landscape of Melbourne makeup without your work. So it's so bizarre to me. I guess how, yeah. So if it was like a bit of a gradual process, how important was it for you? Like in your kind of mindset to have the job, as well as doing freelancing for your like stability? Is that why you were keeping it on? Cuz you were like, oh, I don't know.
Dani Cousens:Yeah, I guess I was just nervous. I, I wasn't ready to take that full dive into full-time freelance. I don't think I was, I didn't think I was as busy enough to kind of financially be able to step right into full-time freelance and just not know, I guess, you know, with the industry as well, like it's, it can be so up and down, so I just didn't have enough confidence in myself to go. Yep. I'm ready to go full time freelance and just see where it goes. I wanted to kind of do it in a gradual process so that I still had the financial stability from my job with a little bit of income coming in from there. And then my freelance work was sort of evolving and yeah, growing gradually, I guess.
Beth Wilson:So, what did it look like when you did say no? Oh, when you left Mac, not say no to Mac, but when you did say all right, that's enough, I can do this on my own. What was happening at that point that you were like, nah, I feel safe to do this. This is gonna be good.
Dani Cousens:Well, funny story. It actually wasn't my decision to
Beth Wilson:Oh, no.
Dani Cousens:No, that's okay.
Beth Wilson:it awkward?
Dani Cousens:No, it's not awkward at all. So with the casual contract that I was on working at Mac, I needed to pick up at least one shift every three months. And this was around like, I think November of 2018. And I just signed a contract for my studio that, that was in Windsor and freelance was really picking up. So Mac was sort of, not really in the forefront of my mind anymore. And I just wasn't picking up shifts like the shifts that they would offer me. I was already booked for, for freelance. So I was having to turn down a lot of the work that they wanted me to do. And then, yeah, in my contract, I was meant to pick up at least one shift every three months. And I just wasn't able to fulfill that. So I was technically let go. So it wasn't entirely on my own terms, but I think it was sort of the universe pushing me and going, okay, well, you haven't needed Mac for three months anyway. And obviously my freelance was really. Taking off at that point. So I think it was the push that I needed to kind of yeah. Throw and go out on my own anyway.
Beth Wilson:Yeah, it sounds like it was more of a lapse that a let go. So that's okay.
Dani Cousens:Yeah.
Beth Wilson:cause I'd be very silly to let you go.
Dani Cousens:I didn't technically get fired, but yeah, I just wasn't fulfilling my contract anymore and yeah, I guess everything happens for a reason. So it was time for me to go on and do my own.
Beth Wilson:So looking back, like, how do you reckon you got most of those clients from freelancing? Was it a word of mouthing? Were you really pushing it on Instagram? Did you do anything sponsored? Like what was going on there to help you grow so quickly?
Dani Cousens:It was all in my Instagram, to be honest. And then I guess, as a makeup artist as well, you kind of have a bit of a domino effect. So the more people that you do, the more word of mouth gets out as well. So I was finding a lot of my clients were either repeat clients or they were clients of someone that I'd done makeup for before. So I guess it all sort of led from my Instagram, but there were, were a lot of recommendations that were coming through as well, which was really helping my, my business grow.
Beth Wilson:Yeah, just from strength to strength. So I do this for everyone who comes on the show, but I go all the way back to the bottom of your Instagram which makes me sound like such a creepo
Dani Cousens:oh, I
Beth Wilson:so I, I saw it all. And like also, because like, people, like you did giveaways when you hit certain numbers of followers, right. I can kind of like track when all of that's happening, like some sort of weirdo data analyst,
Dani Cousens:Yeah.
Beth Wilson:been freelancing for like two years. And in 2019 you had 10,000 followers that was in the beginning. And then six months after that you doubled it to 20 K. So like, I always say this on the show and lots of guests say the same thing, like numbers, aren't everything. But obviously, like, we love to have them
Dani Cousens:mm-hmm
Beth Wilson:do you remember doing anything differently at the time with your content? Because I could see like your style, like really coming through and like really emerging. Were you trying to do something different? Were you trying harder, like pushing more consistency? Like what do you feel like really like pushed the needle for you?
Dani Cousens:it was definitely consistency. I was in my studio pretty much. Every day, even on my days off that I didn't have paying clients coming in my door, I had models booked in and that was to create content. So I was yeah, working some pretty crazy hours and working and doing a lot of free work. Obviously when you're doing models, you're not getting paid to, to do that makeup work, but it was really helping my business. And I guess the, the biggest thing for me was, was resharing. So I had like Mecca resharing, my posts. I had some of the big makeup sharing pages, like IAG model Malay, Amazon KW. I think it is like some of the really
Beth Wilson:huge.
Dani Cousens:makeup pages we're sharing my, my work. So that was really helping to draw in followers, I guess, from there too. And it was, I was being so consistent. Like I was posting at least every second day. I think it was maybe even every day, some days. So my consistency, I was just. On my top. I was on
Beth Wilson:were at the top of the game.
Dani Cousens:yeah.
Beth Wilson:Yeah, baby. I'm interested. And like, I, hadn't kind of pre-prepared this, but I'm just thinking of it now. And like, obviously you're on maternity leave, so you're probably not pushing your content as hard as the moment as you might otherwise be doing. So let's just acknowledge that. But the landscape is very different now on Instagram, like just reach and engagement and all that sort of thing as it was, you know, two, three years ago, what, is there anything that you would be doing differently now, if you were trying to drive that sort of growth, like, what would you be doing now? If you had like an account with like not much going on and you wanted to like get more clients
Dani Cousens:reels.
Beth Wilson:rails.
Dani Cousens:Yep. And like consistent reels as well. Yep.
Beth Wilson:Yeah. I mean, I'm really, I'm really fortunate. I've been to one of your in-person master classes where you kind of like teach the tricks at the trade of like how you like make your reels and everything, which is just, so that was so valuable for me. Like hearing you say at that time, like, oh, you should get models in and be making contact. I was like, oh my God, of course . And then I started doing that and it made so much sense. It's just, it's, it's very like hard. I think people are finding it really hard to grow at the moment in that same kind of way.
Dani Cousens:Yeah, I definitely think like I was fortunate the time. I was growing quite rapidly was a really good time that Instagram was really pushing. It was definitely like video content that was being reshared, but also a lot of photo content as well. And I was getting really good reach and Dave's and sends like, even some of my photos now, like, don't get that kind of reach anymore. And that was only from like a couple of years ago. So I think definitely pushing reels would be if, and when I do go back to doing content again, that's what I will be doing, doing personally to try and build that engagement back up and, you know, trying to reach a bigger audience because Instagram is definitely pushing reels at the moment too. So
Beth Wilson:Yeah, for sure.
Dani Cousens:I think that's the way to go.
Beth Wilson:Yeah. It's it's reals and TikTok. I think for TikTok though, I don't know if that's like converting for people to actually make bookings or if that's just like interesting video content, do you know what I mean? It doesn't have the same sort of communication element as an app. And so I feel like a lot of people are migrating away from Instagram cuz they're over it and they're like, talk's more fun. Talk's easier. Talk's all video. But it's like, it doesn't have a direct kind of communication in there where people would be looking at the hashtag looking for an artist at this
Dani Cousens:Yeah, I agree. And I think that's where you can really elevate both platforms, do your reels on Instagram, but then also share them on your TikTok so that you're reaching a different audience on your TikTok. And yeah, maybe you're not gonna be transferring. Like you say, people aren't gonna be looking up hashtags and things like that on TikTok to find a Melbourne makeup artist, but your work's still on that platform. So it still may get people coming across your Instagram. So I would just be using those reels on both platforms.
Beth Wilson:Yeah, I, I couldn't agree more. Did you see, as your following was growing that you were getting more booking requests, like was there a correlation there?
Dani Cousens:Yes, definitely. Yeah.
Beth Wilson:Yeah. Well, we love to see it more bookings better, always. Good.
Dani Cousens:And I also was just noticing as well. So instead of, you know, at the start of my career, when I was starting freelancing, a lot of photos that people were showing me weren't necessarily of my work for the INPO. Whereas when I was, you know, producing a lot more content and reals people were coming in and going, I want my makeup to look like that real that you just posted the other day, or they would be showing me photos of my work. So I could see that it was translating into bookings because they'd obviously seen that picture on Instagram and then booked me. And then they're showing me that reference image in their appointment as well.
Beth Wilson:Yeah. And I definitely feel like, because again, I went through the whole, I went through the whole feed. I could kind of see around this time, it must have been in like the end of 2018 and then kind of bleeding through 2019, like right before the pandemic happened, your style and your work was just like, Elevate it like every single time, like elevated, better prettier. And the style was just there. Like it's so, so, so beautiful. But it's like such a far cry from even I would say, and I don't wanna get in trouble for this cuz like I never worked at Mac, but like what I would imagine, like a Mac makeup application might look like. And so I'm just like curious, like how did you find the groove of your own.
Dani Cousens:to be honest, it probably was when I was doing so many models, that would be when I would be trying out new products and I'd be trying to challenge myself a little bit and go, okay, I wanna try and do skin this way. You know, I wanna do, or I wanna do eyes first and then I'll do the base or. Yeah, I guess it was through a lot of trial and error. And I did watch a lot of makeup videos or real, I guess they weren't really reals then, but, you know, stories that were being posted by Nicki makeup or 10 J or Emma chin. And I would just pick up little tips and tricks. I'm very like a visual person, which I think is a makeup artist. We all are. So I'd pick up either product recommendations or little tips and tricks and I'd try them when I would be doing my models. And I guess just through that trial and era, I sort of evolved into yeah. What I do today.
Beth Wilson:Yeah, I think it's such a good point as well. The what exactly what you just said, doing makeup of models or getting people to sit in your chair in a way where they're not a client, they don't need to be in and out within a certain period of time, or they're not going to their, you know, really important birthday or wedding. Like you don't wanna be trialed on, you don't want people to be testing things on you when you've got something to do. So it's like yes. Models and like content girls or boys are great for content, but it's also so good for giving yourself that kind of like time for the creative expression and an artistic exploration, I guess.
Dani Cousens:Yeah, definitely. And at that point too, like I just started getting on a few PR lists. So I wanted to try out the products that I was being sent. So I would be taking the op opportunity to try those products on models. And then if I loved them, then they would venture into my kit. So yeah, I guess it was me just finding out and coming from Mac as well, where I was so used to using Mac products. My kit now is, you know, probably 10% Mac products and the rest of it would be other brands. So through trial and error from doing models and content creation and trying things on myself, that's where I sort of grew my kit into such a large variety of, you know, my most loved products and my style sort of evolved from. Yeah, trial and error with different techniques and using different products and kind of finding my groove from there.
Beth Wilson:Well, if that's not the best inspiration for people to just go out and play with makeup, I don't know what is so So the style that you have created obviously lends itself beautifully to bridal makeup. And I would say your name, especially here in Melbourne, but I would say probably Australia wide is synonymous with Brid. Makeup artistry. So like, I myself have even saved so many of your reels to try and like pick up some of the products. Like I said, like I've been to the master classes and I've like, literally touched your kid. And I'm like, okay, I need like all of these things. And I just knew that the podcast community would feel the same way and they were gonna be so excited to hear from you. So I actually asked them if they had any questions, I didn't tell them who it was. Cuz at this point I'm like, I'm still trying to like keep it like a surprise. when the episode drops. But I said, if there's, you know, a master at bridal, it's you, so what do you wanna know? So I've got a couple of questions from some listeners, which is very fun, cuz I've never done this before. so are you ready? Are you ready to hear some of these ones?
Dani Cousens:Yeah,
Beth Wilson:All right. So Olivia from the gold coast asks, how do I gain bridal clients or break into that side of the industry for the first time?
Dani Cousens:that's a hard question. I think for me, I did my first bridal client while I was still working at Mac. So this was like pre freelance times. And. I was so nervous to even do this bridal client. I'd never done, you know, specific bridal artistry before, but she found me on Instagram. She liked the work that I was doing then, which I would hate to even think what that looks like now. Cause it would be so different to what I actually would do now. But yeah, she, she trusted me and I was like, you know, what, if I'm, if I want to break into this bridal industry in Melbourne, then I just need to say yes to it. So I, I think my biggest thing would be, is not turning down opportunity. Like when you're starting out, say yes to all of the jobs that you can. So if you have friends that are getting married, you know, you could reach out to them and offer your services, or I don't really even even know how to answer this question properly.
Beth Wilson:Yeah. You know, it's tricky. Like I, I read it and I was like, oh, it's so hard because I ever remember the first wedding that I ever did. It was like, I think it was a friend of a friend of a friend. It had been, somebody had recommended me and then it had kind of just like gone through that way. I think I even did the trial for free because I was like, oh my God, it's my first wedding. I was like, terrified. And then one of those bridesmaids got married and then she wanted, do you know what I mean? And kind of just like snowballs from there. I've even heard. Yeah. It's like, I've heard Vanessa Myrick talk about the first makeup job she ever did was a bridal party and it freaked her out. And like, she still does makeup for that, like family or that group of people today. Like, I think you're so right. You just have to say yes to the opportunity or even like put yourself out there. If it's further travel, then you would like, or if it's not as much money or whatever, it's like, sometimes you just gotta eat shit to like, get the ball rolling, you
Dani Cousens:Yeah. And I think that's what I did. Like, I can't entirely remember if I even did a trial, but if I did, I probably charged, you know, next to nothing for the trial. I think even like the actual job itself, I remember it being done in Sorento. I don't think I would've charged like a travel fee. Like I really just wanted to, to do this job to break into the industry. So, you know, like it still has to be worth your while, but if that's the industry that you wanna break into, I would just be saying yes to that opportunity. And it will domino from there. You know, once I started to do a few more bridal parties and I would be posting them on my Instagram, people were like, oh, she does bridal makeup. And then like you say, you know, one of the bridesmaids would then be getting married or there's bound to be someone at that wedding that you've done makeup for. That's engaged, that's then looking for their vendors. So it kind of is a domino effect from there. And that, yeah, that's really how I, I grew my bridal clientele was through word of mouth and recommendation and yeah. People seeing my work because they'd been at a wedding that I'd done the makeup.
Beth Wilson:Yeah, I love it. Totally agree. The next one is from Casey in the Mornington peninsula, and she asks, how do you set boundaries with brides who would push back on your pricing?
Dani Cousens:Stand your ground girl know your worth. yeah. I turn down a lot of work, you know, once I send through my price list, I either, I might, may not hear back from them or some people will come back and say, Hey, can you offer me a discount for, you know, if I pay cash or if I have X amount of people, can you do it for a cheaper price? And I just come back and say, unfortunately, I don't offer discounts. These are my prices based on my experience and knowledge. And yeah, if you wanna book me, then book me. If you don't, then that's fine too.
Beth Wilson:Yeah. Again, I completely agree. It's like, if they're gonna say no to that, that's fine. They'll go find someone else. If it's on the basis of price, I'll find someone else who's cheaper and you'll probably get another opportunity with someone who's happy to pay, whatever it is you're charging. And then some, I just think if people are gonna push back on really simple things like that, or ask you not to charge, travel or discount for lots and lots of people, it's like, no, you gotta pay the same. It's still a person's face. Like,
Dani Cousens:And you know, and you know what that kind of booking is gonna be the type of booking that will give you anxiety and like give you grief as well. Like, because they've tried to, you know, push you down on your pedestal a little bit and yeah, I guess they don't see your worth so much. They're gonna be the ones that give you more of a hard time. It's always the way you'd rather get a booking that knows your worth, and they're happy to pay for your pricing. And they're gonna be so much more of a delight to work with on the day
Beth Wilson:So true. And I feel like this even goes for people who. This is gonna sound terrible, but there are sometimes people, I feel like they send you an email and it's a booking request and they're just so rude in their email to you. Like, just like not a vibe. And it's like, I'll email them back and just completely lie and be like, I'm so sorry. I'm already booked on that day. I can't deal with it. It's like, sometimes you just know
Dani Cousens:Yeah,
Beth Wilson:sometimes you just know. So if you feel like you should say no, because the job's gonna give you grief, just say, no, it's okay.
Dani Cousens:percent. A hundred
Beth Wilson:they don't have access to your calendar. They don't know if you're lying.
Dani Cousens:yeah. And you are gonna fill that, that booking with yeah. Someone that actually knows your worth and wants to book you.
Beth Wilson:true. Now this one I'm gonna struggle pronouncing your name. And I know you listen to the show every week. I'm so sorry. I think it's shy. She shy from Lang Lang us. How long do you allow per person and what order do you usually do? I'm really interested to hear.
Dani Cousens:I allow 45 minutes to one hour per person, normally an hour for the bride, 45 minutes for bridesmaids and like mother of the bride or extras and the order that I do makeup in, like, does she
Beth Wilson:As in, like, would you do like the bride last? Would you do the bride? I think I heard Mia. Conna say once that she always does the bride second to last, because then like, you know, when they're getting dressed and all that sort of stuff, I can get too chaotic if you do them last. So then I started doing it that way. Is that how you do it or?
Dani Cousens:that's exactly how I do it. So I don't really mind who goes first, second, third, whatever. I always do bride second to last. Exactly. For that same reason that you've just said with me, Connor, because yeah, a few have run overtime and maybe it's not even your fault. Like the hair stylist might be running overtime. The photographers always arrive early as well. So I just
Beth Wilson:I know what's with that. What is with that stuff? Doing it? It's so annoying.
Dani Cousens:I would rather not have the bride sitting in my chair feeling stressed because the photographers got there and they don't have a time to breathe and, you know, sort of compose themselves before yeah. Getting into their photos and getting into their dress and all that sort of stuff.
Beth Wilson:So true. And everyone always, and it's just inevitable. Everyone always be asking the bride so many questions and they might be nice. Like, oh, where should we put this? Or where do you have this? Let me go get it for you. Or you should be eating something or you should be doing this. And to have like, if you just put yourself in her shoes, if she's sitting there last, not a chance, like I'd get too stressed out. Can't deal with it. Definitely. That's the way to go. Charmaine from Sorento asked, this is interesting. What should or shouldn't you say to a bride who is getting stressed out while you're doing her wedding makeup?
Dani Cousens:This has happened to me a few times. I feel like I've got quite a calm personality. So even if I'm stressed on the outside, no. Oh, sorry. On the
Beth Wilson:Stressed on the inside.
Dani Cousens:if I'm stressed on the inside, I don't look it on the outside. So I try not to. Portray that I'm getting stressed, whether that's like a time thing, or if I'm sort of getting energy from the bride that they may be feeling a little bit stressed. I just say to them, Hey, do you wanna take five minutes? And you know, go get some fresh air or have a glass of water or have something to eat and come back. We can, you know, sit back in the chair and we can finish doing your makeup. And I just also try and not to tear them away from their wedding day, but I try and just talk to them about everyday things, like kind of not get them talking about, oh, what, time's your ceremony? And like, thinking about the wedding so much, I just talk to them about, okay, where are you going on your honeymoon? Or like, how's work been leading up to the day. And if they've got kids like talking about their kids and just trying to. Distract them a little bit from if they're feeling a bit stressed about the wedding, because it's only natural to start feeling stressed, especially the closer it gets to the photographer, getting there. And the ceremony times fast approaching. It's not gonna be something that you are doing. That's stressing them out. It's just them, I guess, internalizing what's about to happen for their afternoon.
Beth Wilson:It's so true. I always like when they sit in my chair, I'll always like check in with them. Like the minute they sit down, I'm like, all right, let's be honest. I'm not part of your bridal party. You can tell me the truth. Like, how are you feeling? They'll either be like, I'm great. Or they'll be like, not so good. And then it's almost like, have you seen those things on the internet where it's like, you can choose to have like a silent appointment, like a chat free appointment, like. Want to be able to just sit there. That's the only time they're gonna get a minute to themselves, like on the whole day. So I think, yeah, like what should or shouldn't you say is like a, it's a read the room.
Dani Cousens:Yeah.
Beth Wilson:need to read the room and see what's going on. But I think always checking in with them and yeah, like you said, not focusing too much on the, well, what time are you cutting the cake? Who's giving the speech. Is there gonna be any family drama? Like let's not feed into that. Let's just let's do normal life.
Dani Cousens:And there's even been times as well. Like I've I remember doing a bridal party, not so long ago. And the music choice that one of the bridesmaids had chosen was stressing the bride out because it was such heavy music. It wasn't relaxing at all. And I was actually doing the job with one of my friends, Clara, and both of us were sort of getting stressed out. Like the type of music that was being played was what you would hear in a, in a nightclub.
Beth Wilson:God. Oh, like deep house. Or was it like, because I've been to one before where it was like, really like proper, like deep like Drake and like Kendrick Lamar. And it was just like swearing, screaming, like kind of a vibe, but maybe not on a wedding day.
Dani Cousens:Yeah.
And like, not at 7:00 AM in the morning. And I could just tell that the bride was, it was kind of stressing her out. So I actually ended up saying to the brides made, Hey, do we, can you maybe change the music to something a little bit more relaxing? Cause I knew that the bride probably wouldn't feel comfortable saying it and I, I don't care. I just said, you know, I think we should change it because I could tell that her vibe was, she wasn't vibing the music and it was stressing her out because it was so
full on for 7:00 AM in the morning. On your wedding day.
Beth Wilson:Okay, look, all I'm gonna say is this, if I ever get married, I don't want the vibe to be like, I've just left revolver. I want the vibe to be like, I'm, I'm inside a Nancy Myers movie and everything is okay. Like that's gotta be the vibe. Yeah, exactly. Oh my God. That's so funny. And the last question is from Montana into AKI who asked what is the best way to utilize your off peak season to reach more brides for the upcoming season? Which I also find an interesting question because you're gonna get your bookings in the off peak. Does that make sense? Like people are gonna book you in April for something in November. Do you know what I mean? So I guess, how do you utilize your social media all year round to make sure you're kind of cornering that market?
Dani Cousens:guess I'd be particular about what I'd be posting on my social media. So if brides were what you really wanted to target, then I would be making sure that my social media was Bri or related makeup looks, which I tend to, you know, every now and then I'll do like an updated bridal look on a real, or like a makeup post because. I am trying to target brides all year round and interface, sort of as much as I love doing something that's a little bit different or introducing color or whatever. I just know that, you know, like a, bride's not gonna book me for a blue smokey eye. So if I want to target brides, I need to be producing content that a bride is gonna look at and go, oh yeah, that's the kind of makeup look that I want for my wedding
Beth Wilson:Yeah, I couldn't agree more.
Dani Cousens:So I guess being, yeah, a bit more particular about what I'm posting.
Beth Wilson:That's such a great idea though, to maybe every, so often, maybe every couple of months or something post a real, like get a model in or get someone to sit in your chair and post. This is my updated bridal look. Or I think I've seen someone before do this is a kind of makeup I do for these different styles of bride. So if it was like a kind of like more Hollywood glam bride compared to more of like a beachy vibe, and then you can change up the hair a little bit, I guess. Yeah. Like you say, just getting a bit creative with how you can post bridal looks all year round and kind of pepper that through.
Dani Cousens:and I guess the other thing as well is I'd be reaching out to hairstylists and doing bridal looks together. So, you know, the hair can make such a difference to the overall makeup look. So again, what you were sort of saying with makeup looks that could be, I guess, shown differently. So you could do like a beachy, bridal look or, you know, like a boho kind of vibe, or this is a bit more glam and you could collaborate with a hair stylist and change the hair and makeup to suit. Those kind of looks too. So you're reaching a larger audience with your bridal looks too, and you're not just focusing on, you know, this is my one and only look that I do.
Beth Wilson:and then with the new feature on Instagram as well at the moment you can post content like in collaboration with someone. So it goes on both of the feeds at the same time, and you would be doubling down on sharing that audience. So that's such a great idea, especially for how things are working now.
Dani Cousens:Yeah. 100%.
Beth Wilson:That's like the one new feature that Instagram has rolled out recently that they haven't stolen from TikTok. That's actually worthwhile. So like good for you, mark Zuckerberg. You finally got one
Dani Cousens:Yeah. And like touching on that too. So I reached out with, reached out to here by Brittany, who I did a lot of brides with before she went on maternity leave. And so we would collaborate together because we were getting booked for a lot of jobs together. Anyway, we thought let's collaborate together and show different styles of hair and makeup that marries together really nicely. And that actually increased our bookings that we got together as well. So if there's a hairstylist that you really like working with, and you've got kind of a similar style, like hair by Britney, her style of hair that she does is really soft. So it suits a lot of brides that I do because the makeup that I do is more soft. So yeah, pick a hairstylist that you like their style and you like to work with and collaborate with them and create some looks together.
Beth Wilson:That's such a great idea, not me like reaching for my phone and being like, all right, I gotta make some phone calls, voice. I gotta go. That's awesome. That's such good advice. I hope that I, you know what, I don't hope I know that that's really gonna help everyone looking towards the future. It definitely will looking towards the future. Now for you specifically, you just had Parker in April. He is, by the way, I just have to tell you. So incredibly cute. I could see him in this video chat, which you guys aren't gonna see cuz we decided we were gonna go troll mode, but he is just such a sweetheart. And so I'm just wondering for you, obviously you built up your business to a really great place, you know, to, you know, have maternity leave and feel really comfortable there. And that's the dream I think for makeup artists, because as we know from the last few years, like stability is a weird place for freelancers. I'm just curious, like has having Parker changed? How you picture yourself working in the future? Like, do you think you're gonna work differently?
Dani Cousens:Yeah, I do. Yeah, I do. I didn't think I would feel this way. And then obviously once having Parker, I just, my priorities have changed. I don't wanna work those long hours that I was doing pre COVID. You know, like I was doing some pretty crazy hours.
I was working from like 7:00
AM, till 7:00 PM at night. I wasn't really giving myself days off. And now since having Parker, like, I obviously wanna prioritize my time with him and with my family. So yeah, I won't be working as much as what I was. I have just increased my prices and I'm being a little bit more picky with the. Work that I am taking on. And I'm saying no to a lot of jobs. Like if I've got, you know, two weddings booked in one week, I'm trying not to take on a third, which is really hard for me. I'm not used to saying no to so many things, but at the same time yeah. My priorities have changed a lot and yeah, he's more of my priority. Now, along with my business, I don't want that to, you know, be put to the side, but yeah, I just am being a little bit more picky with the type of work that I'm taking on.
Beth Wilson:Yeah, totally. And actually just on the point of raising your prices, which I think I encourage everyone to do at least every six months or so to look into that, especially with. The world is like right now, like really have a think about whether or not you're charging enough, but it's something I noticed when I was on your website this weekend. Just like putting together like some research points. Is that on your FAQs? I think you've got your full like pricing list. I don't know if it's up to date based on what you just told me, but that
Dani Cousens:It is. Yes.
Beth Wilson:Okay, good. Okay. That's good. That was just like a life admin check for you. but what I like about that so much is like having your prices on your website, I feel people are in two minds about it. They're like, I don't wanna have it on, I'm gonna give it to them when they book or I'm gonna have it on. And at least that way you are like gate, you're not like gate keeping it. And if they look at it and they're like, that's too expensive, they're just not gonna email you and waste your time. And I just wanted to yeah. Point that out because I really respected the amount of information you give to people upfront. So when they're looking and looking to make a booking with you, they're like, if this is not gonna work, I'm gonna know before I send the email.
Dani Cousens:Yeah. And I find that that actually helps to filter out those people that, yeah. Either it's not gonna be in their budget or, you know, yeah. They can't afford to pay my prices. And I fully respect that I'm not gonna be in everyone's budget and makeup is not gonna be a priority for every bride as well. You know, they might prioritize their flowers or their photographer or videographer, which for me like, you know, photos and videos are just as important as your makeup as well, but not everyone is into, you know, makeup as much. And they might be happy to choose someone that's, you know, a lower price point and they're still gonna be just as happy. So I kind of feel like having my pricing and my information on there helps to filter out, you know, either people. It's not in their budget or they don't have the minimum amount of people to make it worthwhile for me as well. Like I've got my minimum spend or my minimum numbers on my website as well. So it helps me with my admin in, in a sense too.
Beth Wilson:Yeah, I think, I think it's really great. Just a question on that, because you've just said minimums spend and minimum people. If somebody didn't have, say, for example, you won't travel for less than, I don't know what the number is. Five or six, say you won't travel for less than six people or go to a group. If they were like one bride, if it was just one bride and I'm getting I'm eloping or something, and I don't, you know, want the whole thing, would you do it for her? If she paid six people's worth.
Dani Cousens:yes.
Beth Wilson:Yeah. Good, Cause it makes sense. It's like some people do have all that money in the world. It's just like, I guess what I'm trying to say is like to the people listening, cuz they're so interested in how to build this kind of, it's a, it's a business and it's like, if they're willing to pay the money, don't box yourself in by saying I only travel for six. It's like I'll travel for one. If you pay my six person call out,
Dani Cousens:Exactly. And that's kind of why I changed my wording on my website to minimum spend. Like, I think I'm pretty sure it says on their minimum spend or this X amount of services. So I do have some brides that are booked in, you know, on a Saturday where my minimum services or my minimum spend is six applications. And they've only got five people, but they're paying me for the six. So
Beth Wilson:it's what you gotta do. I just think it's really smart. And I don't think it's like, um, an accident that you've obviously got this business savvy way of setting up all of this stuff, as well as being. as it as talented as you are. I think when people are wanting to build up this bridal artistry type of business, you've gotta have both, like, you've gotta really think about it. You can't just kind of do it ad hoc. It's like work out your structure, work out your prices. Maybe take a leave outta Dani's book and put this information on your website. So it's available to people and you are gonna minimize the time that you were spending on emails with people who aren't qualified to book you in. That's just as simple as that.
Dani Cousens:Yeah, 100%. Yeah.
Beth Wilson:So good. So into it. And so if you're kind of thinking that you are gonna work a little bit differently and what I'm kind of hearing is a work smarter, not harder vibe, which I love is that gonna include more education in the future from.
Dani Cousens:Yes for sure. So education will be something that I will be prioritizing. I would love to not only teach makeup artists, but the everyday woman as well. So, you know, a lot of my brides that I'm seeing, they aren't confident in doing makeup on themselves or, you know, mother of the bride or the bridesmaids. They're not big makeup people, but they want to learn how to just do an everyday makeup look. So my master classes that I'll be doing will be catered to both makeup artists and the everyday girl as well, or boy in that matter.
Beth Wilson:amen. Will they be like separate classes? So one's kind of for an artist. Yeah. Cuz that would be a little bit tricky to try and teach it all. But it's so funny. I feel like to the clients that you meet, who don't really have that makeup mindset, or they don't really care in their everyday life. It's like, there are a couple things that you can offer them that just changed their life, like even product recommendations. So that'd just be so powerful, you
Dani Cousens:Mm. Yeah. I'm excited to delve more into the education side of things.
Beth Wilson:I am too. And by the way, for anyone listening in case you didn't know, Dani teaches two, is it two of your signature looks online?
Dani Cousens:Yeah. And hopefully I'll be adding more online too. So I'll have online classes that are available for people that are interstate or overseas, which I do have quite a few people, which I'm so fortunate that purchase my master classes that are interstate or overseas. So I'll be updating those. And then also in Melbourne having some in-person master classes too.
Beth Wilson:I cannot recommend this enough, especially if you're a makeup artist and you're wanting to up your skills, I cannot recommend going to this master class enough. I will be there anyway, if you just
Dani Cousens:Yay.
Beth Wilson:good, but I think I've taken up just about enough of your time. And again, I'm just so truly grateful that. Wanted to chat with me even
Dani Cousens:Oh, of course.
Beth Wilson:is so much more important than me, the big old, big Bon . Um, but the last question I just love to ask you is what advice, like what, what is one piece of advice that you would give to an aspiring artist who is at the beginning of their journey? Like say you meet like a 16 year old and she's like, I'm gonna be a makeup artist. Like, what would you tell her?
Dani Cousens:just believe in yourself, like little old me that was in year nine that got pushed back by my teacher. Like I did not let that stop me. You know, if I had let it stop me, I wouldn't be doing makeup today. I knew that I wanted to be a makeup artist. And if you've got the passion and the drive, your skills will improve over time. Like I'm not the makeup artist that I was when I first started my freelancing or even, you know, when I started working at Mac, my artistry has developed and changed so much. So just believe in yourself and yeah, you'll be amazed at what you can achieve.
Beth Wilson:So, so good. And just in case people aren't following you, which I highly doubt based on the reactions to the stories I put up, letting people know I was doing this interview, where can they find you?
Dani Cousens:So on Instagram at makeup, by Dani D a N I,
Beth Wilson:very good. And in Dani's bio on that account, you can find the access to the online master classes. And obviously Dani will update that with the real life master classes when they happen in Melbourne. But again, thank you so, so, so much, I just know people are gonna love this episode. You're such an angel. Thank
Dani Cousens:Oh, thank you so much for having me. I've loved doing this chat with you.
Beth Wilson:Of course, it's a podcast revelation, but Dani Cousens everybody. What an absolute star. I said it during the interview, but I think it is no surprise and it is certainly no accident that she is as successful as she is. She is so talented. Her work is out of the park, but you can also tell she is a savvy business person. And that's what I want you to take from this episode. Yes. Your artistry is a creative pursuit. Yes, it is art. But your artistry. Business. And when it comes to bridal, where you are asked so much of yourself, including early start times, that would make no sense for you to be awake at that time of day, where you are asked to work Sundays and on weekends, and you aren't allowed to see your family because you gotta be in bed where you gotta be traveling four hours there and back to make sure that you can be there for that bridal party. You need to make sure that your business is functioning so that you are not only making money, but you are making profit. So here are my top two takeaways from my interview with Dani. Number one, you won't get far, unless you believe in yourself. We heard Dani's teacher in high school, low key crushed her dreams, right? She pushed on, she went to Mac in London, her absolute dream job, and they knocked her back on her first try in 2015. She got up and she tried again. If she had let those disappointments get to her, maybe I wouldn't have even been having that conversation with her today. Dani was resilient. She was practical. AKA. She put people's feedback into action so that she could improve. And most importantly, no matter what, no matter what bullshit was said to her, she believed in herself and her dream and look at her now number. It is okay to say no to jobs. Now we have absolutely heard this lesson on the show before, but it is one of my biggest golden rules. If people are asking you for discounts, if they aren't respecting your time, if they aren't respecting your need to charge for travel or having a minimum call out or a minimum number of people, or if the vibes are just not there. And the way that they're speaking to you just ain't it. Dump their ass. I know that's silly. I hear that expression on TikTok and it makes me laugh. I know that sounds a bit harsh, but what I mean is this just politely say no, like I said, in the episode, it is so easy to respectfully tell a prospective client whose vibes aren't there, or maybe they're just not respecting you in another way. Just tell them I'm so sorry. I'm actually unavailable on that date and just move on with your life rather than saying yes, putting that thing in your diary, dreading it for however many months it is coming up and then potentially setting yourself up to wake up on the morning of that appointment and just be riddled with stress and anxiety, because you knew that you never wanted to do it in the first place. Working is great. Money is addictive, but your sanity and mental health trumps all when booking in makeup jobs. well, that's it from me. Y'all and I mean, it, this time, I will be back in your ears in a fortnight with another juicy interview, but in the meantime, please come follow me on all of the social media, uh, so that you can see what goes on behind the scenes in my life as an artist and the brand Saint Jack, you can follow the brand Saint Jack at, by Saint Jack on Instagram. That's at, by Saint Jack, by the way, this is so funny. Little side note story for you. There's some random man in the states who has the handle at Saint Jack. Right. And I have been DMing him for like years to be like, oh, like, can I get that handle? Cuz like, I'll buy it from you, whatever, cuz I obviously want my business to have it. And he just never answers me. And this weekend I well up to my wits end because somebody in my family was like, yeah, I was showing a business to um, a friend of mine and she's like, yeah, buy Saint. Jack's amazing. I'm like, it's just Saint Jack. I know that the handle is confusing, but like, oh my God. And so I even got so deep in this that I ended up going onto his profile. The last. Photo he posted was four years ago. I went onto his comments. I commented on it and said, Hey, can you check your DMS? And then I went to see who had liked that last photo from four years ago. And then . And then I DMed all of them who were active on Instagram more recently. So, Hey look, maybe the handle will soon be at Saint Jack. If I can get onto this guy and give him, God knows how much money he'll want for the handle, but in the meantime, you can also easily find me on TikTok. I'm sorry. I just went so rogue. My TikTok handle is at Saint Jack Cosmetics. Of course you can find me on TikTok and Instagram as an artist as well. And my handle for both is at Beth Wilson, underscore MUA. God, I love you guys. You keep me young. You make me happy until next time. Bye.